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Known to be the podcast real spies listen to -(STOP)- eavesdrop on conversations with high level sources from around the world -(STOP)- spychiefs molehunters defectors covert operators analysts cyberwarriors and researchers debriefed by SPY Historian Hammond -(STOP) stories secrets tradecraft and technology discussed -(STOP)- HUMINT SIGINT OSINT IMINT GEOINT and more -(STOP)- rumored to be professional education internal communication and public information -(STOP)- entire back catalog available online for free -(STOP)- please investigate this claim with all possible haste -(STOP)- SPY Historian Hammond said to have a Scottish accent -(STOP)- is this a countermeasure or a hearts-and-minds campaign?
(END TELEGRAM)
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Summary
Lieutenant General Anthony Crutchfield (Ret.) (LinkedIn, Wikipedia) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss his time as the Deputy Commander of United States Indo-Pacific Command. PACOM covers 52% of the globe.
What You’ll Learn
Intelligence
Reflections
And much, much more …
Quotes of the Week
“I worked hard at everything I did. If somebody asked me to do a job, I didn’t say, ‘That’s not my job,’ I didn’t complain. There were places that I was sent that I didn’t want to go, but I went – And I didn’t complain about it…I did the best that I could and it was recognized.” – Anthony Crutchfield.
Resources
SURFACE SKIM
*SpyCasts*
DEEPER DIVE
Books
Primary Sources
*Wildcard Resource*
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Summary
Jonathan B. Smith (X; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the application of intelligence to entrepreneurship. Jonathan is an entrepreneur, author, and business strategist.
What You’ll Learn
Intelligence
Reflections
And much, much more …
Quotes of the Week
“I often switch languages …I'll speak from a medical CEO's perspective versus a financial services CEO perspective. And people, when you use their language, they tend to lean in. They're like, “Oh, you understand me.” It's fascinating – People don't want to know how much you know until they know how much you care.” – Jonathan B. Smith.
Resources
SURFACE SKIM
*SpyCasts*
*Beginner Resources*
DEEPER DIVE
Books
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Ean Forsythe joins Andrew to discuss the history of Cuban intelligence. Ean is the Counterintelligence and Security Center Chair at the National Intelligence University.
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Eliot Higgins (X; Wikipedia) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the work of Bellingcat. Eliot founded the open-source investigative website in 2014.
“When I first started doing this work ... I would present geolocation and stuff on stage. The reaction was like I was doing magic tricks, but my point was that. This isn't magic – This is something that you can do and recreate and understand.” - Eliot Higgins.
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Cameron Malin (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss cyber and behavioral profiling. Cameron was the creator and founder of the FBI’s Cyber Behavioral Analysis Center.
“We need to think about cybersecurity as not just hacking and malware and the obvious tangible or known weapons that are used, it includes mental malware … Deep fakes and disinformation, things that can cause erroneous decision making that are just as powerful.” – Cameron Malin
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Chris Voss (X; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the art of negotiation. Chris formerly served as the FBI lead international hostage negotiator.
“Never take advice from somebody that you wouldn’t trade places with. Never take directions from somebody who hasn’t been where you’re going … I’m coachable, but I know who to be coached by.” – Chris Voss.
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Jim Himes (Website; X) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the U.S. House Intelligence Committee. Jim has served as the U.S. representative for Connecticut’s 4th congressional district since 2009.
“I get asked all the time, ‘Oh my gosh, you see all the threats. Do you sleep at night?’ … Yes, I do see with particularly exquisite detail the threats against us. I also get to see the detail of the assets and the people that we deploy against those threats. And because I get to see with great detail the assets and the tools that we have to address those threats, yes, I do sleep at night. Not because they will ever be perfect, but because these are incredibly dedicated people, the technology is amazing, and it is commensurate with the threats out there.” -Jim Himes
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Jennifer Ewbank (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the integration of technology within intelligence. Jennifer recently retired from her role as Deputy Director of CIA for Digital Innovation.
“Intelligence isn't about knowing exactly what's going to happen … It's about delivering a decision advantage to our policymakers. Decision advantage doesn't mean that I can tell you precisely what's going to happen and when. You never have perfect information, and you have to be able to move still. You can't be paralyzed by a desire to seek that last detail when, particularly in digital tech space, like the world is moving rapidly all around you.” – Jennifer Ewbank.
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Pete Langman and Nadine Akkerman join Andrew to discuss espionage in Elizabethan England. Pete and Nadine are authors of the new book Spycraft: Tricks and Tools of the Dangerous Trade from Elizabeth I to the Restoration.
“Spies are involved with bribery. They cheat and they lie, so it’s immoral, and often there are things that are just illegal in other instances, such as forgery of documents. Other people would get their ears clipped or their noses slit if they forged documents.If you are a spy, you are being asked to do that on the job. So it's a dangerous game and the lines are very thin.” – Nadine Akkerman.
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Jason Barrett (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the integration of open-source intelligence into the American Intelligence Community. Jason is the first-ever OSINT Executive.
“We're living in an age when credibility and trust is really important to build. This is an opportunity for the IC to really build that trust, I think in important ways. So, it's an area I think you will see more of us being more transparent in our work.” – Jason Barrett.
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Tim Tate (Website) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the Spycatcher Affair. Tim is a best-selling author and award-winning filmmaker.
"[Wright] found truly acres of paperwork from old files which had been disregarded and hadn't been properly followed up on and leads that hadn't been properly followed. And when he pulled at them, those threads of evidence, and when he chased it down, what he found, as often as not, was genuine reason to suspect that the penetration, the widespread penetration, was real and serious.” – Tim Tate
.
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Summary
Rachel Noble joins Andrew to discuss her role as Director-General of the Australian Signals Directorate. Rachel is the first woman to hold this position.
What You’ll Learn
Intelligence
Reflections
And much, much more …
Quotes of the Week
“Women lead differently. We talk differently, we engage in different ways. And I've had to learn to own that about myself and not be tempted to try to be like the guys, compete with them on their own terms, or to adopt male behaviors in order to be heard … [Doing that] doesn't really help other women who might come after me.” – Rachel Noble.
Resources
SURFACE SKIM
*SpyCasts*
*Beginner Resources*
DEEPER DIVE
Primary Sources
*Wildcard Resource*
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Neil Bradbury (Website, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the deadly history of poison and espionage. Neil is an author and biochemist.
“In order to counteract lots of the poisons, you have to know how they work, and you have to be able to develop your own. So, yes, undoubtedly, Western governments are just as actively involved in creating these chemicals and also the antidotes to them.” – Dr. Neil Bradbury.
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Jefferson Morley and Mark Zaid join Andrew in a debate over the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Mark and Jeff are longtime friends and colleagues with very different viewpoints of what truly happened on November 22nd, 1963.
”That's why I think they probably have something to hide. Because it doesn't make sense otherwise … If they had access to that kind of straightforward story, we would get that.” – Jefferson Morley.
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Jefferson Morley and Mark Zaid join Andrew in a debate over the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Mark and Jeff are longtime friends and colleagues with very different viewpoints of what truly happened on November 22nd, 1963.
”That's why I think they probably have something to hide. Because it doesn't make sense otherwise … If they had access to that kind of straightforward story, we would get that.” – Jefferson Morley.
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Henry Hemming (X, Website) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the case of Frank Hegarty, a British spy operating within the IRA. Henry is a bestselling espionage author.
“This is where it becomes, morally, much more complex. What’s difficult … is that most of the handlers who were faced with these decisions didn't have adequate training. They didn't know what the law said. They didn't know exactly what the limits were to what they could and could not do … And suddenly, as we're beginning to find out, mistakes were made.” – Henry Hemming.
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Brett Forrest and Warren Strobel join Andrew to discuss reporting intelligence. Brett and Warren are national security reporters for The Wall Street Journal.
This week on SpyCast, Andrew was joined in the studio by Brett Forrest and Warren Strobel, intelligence correspondents at the Wall Street Journal. As SpyCast listeners will know, issues of intelligence and espionage are constantly going on all around us – But how does the public stay in the know and up to date on the latest cases and news from around the world? Well, that's where these two come in.
“It's about knocking on every possible door that you can imagine, that you can come up with, that you can dig up. And, all you're hoping for is one of those doors to open. You know, you knock on a hundred doors, you get 99 doors to open. You just want that one door to open because that's where the information is. That's where the source is. So, I don't know if I would call that luck, I would call that persistence.” - Brett Forrest
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General Frank McKenzie (Biography, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss his new book, The Melting Point. General McKenzie was the 14th commander of the United States Central Command.
“What that leads you to is really, intelligence. It paints that picture and it describes the operational environment within which you can operate. So here's the risk. If you're an aggressive commander … There's a temptation to lean on intelligence to tell you what you want to hear, shape the information … In the back of your mind, you need to recognize, you can't go into it with what I would call confirmation bias.” – General Frank McKenzie.
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An expert panel of world leaders gathered at the International Spy Museum to discuss the importance of NATO today and in the future. Panelists included former Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, Latvian President Edgars Rinkēvičs, among others.
What You’ll Learn
“In the old days, NATO was kind of a place where everybody did their talking points and then left. But for the first time in a very long time, NATO is more than just a forum. It is a security alliance that is very important to protecting world peace.” – Leon Panetta.
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Camille Stewart Gloster (X, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss her career in cyber. Camille was the first Deputy National Cyber Director for Technology & Ecosystem for the White House.
“Another part of the problem is having a conversation where people understand that they do a lot of this work every day. Honing those skills and being intentional about them and then applying them to a career means a transition from a hobby to something more concrete. And that narrative piece of making cybersecurity not seem so overwhelming is a big part of the work as well.” – Camille Stewart Gloster.
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Michael Collins joins Andrew to discuss the National Intelligence Council. Michael is the NIC’s current acting chair.
“In the analytic product, the first paragraph says: Here's the bad thing. Second paragraph says: This is what the bad thing means for the United States. Third paragraph is: What can be done to stop the bad thing, or more importantly, to identify an opportunity. I have to be optimistic. If I weren't, I wouldn't be in this job.” – Michael Collins.
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Jason Barlow (X; Biography) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the iconic James Bond vehicles. Jason is the longstanding editor-at-large at Top Gear.
“Something strange happens in popular culture, where worlds kind of collide and cars assume these sorts of statuses far in excess of what they're actually doing in the movies. I find it fascinating as a process. Nobody can predict how these things are going to go and it's wonderful when these things do happen.” – Jason Barlow.
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Laura Hicken (LinkedIn) and Lauren vonBechmann (LinkedIn) join Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the collection of the International Spy Museum. SPY’s collection consists of 10,000 espionage-related artifacts.
“It's that ability to give accessibility to our audiences so that they can see like parts of history – So it's not only to preserve it, but it's so that people can see it as well. That's what we want to provide – A place for people to see the unseen.” – Lauren vonBechmann.
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Dennis Eger (LinkedIn) and Shawn Nilius (LinkedIn) join Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss open-source intelligence. Combined, the two have over six decades of service to the U.S. Army.
“If [civilians are] taking a video and posting it, they become in the cycle … The amount of things that people do on the internet that leaves their data or their information out there – Their data becomes big part of the intelligence cycle and they probably don't even know that they're doing it.” – Dennis Eger.
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Andrew Hodges (Website, Wikipedia) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the life and work of Alan Turing. Andrew is an emeritus senior research fellow of mathematics at the University of Oxford.
“Everything that you do with the digital, everything that we're doing now through these computers, flows from his perceptions. And that in turn came through his practical experience during the Second World War on breaking the enemy codes.” – Andrew Hodges .
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Simon Shuster (X, Website) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Ukraine. Simon is a senior correspondent at TIME.
“In researching [Zelenskyy’s] transformations as a person from comedian to politician to wartime leader, I also thought a lot about what qualities have remained consistent in him. And one of them for sure is this kind of, “go get ‘em” confidence … He just has this abiding confidence in his own ability to think on his feet, to not lose his balance, to just go into a new and unfamiliar space or a set of challenges and wing it, so to say.” – Simon Schuster
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Nicholas Shakespeare (X; Website) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the life and legacy of Ian Fleming. Nicholas is an award-winning novelist and biographer.
“Whatever the ingredients of Bond – As a kind of, both a hero of modernization, but also as a symbol of retrospective power – The films have allowed this protean creature to exist in the future, in the present, and so that almost all over the world, the words, the names “Bond, James Bond” will ignite a smile.” – Nicholas Shakespeare.
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John Blaxland (X, LinkedIn) and Clare Birgin (Wikipedia, LinkedIn) join Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss Australian codebreaking. John and Clare are coauthors of the new book Revealing Secrets.
"What I've noticed with the Australians, and I think it's similar in the other the other Five Eyes countries, these people tend to be quite patriotic to do [Signals Intelligence]. They want to, they love their country, and it also seems to preserve very good qualities.” -Clare Birgin.
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Diane Foley (Website, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the legacy of her son, James Foley. James was held hostage and murdered by ISIS in 2014.
“[Jim] could have been teaching or doing so many things, writing … but he just felt those stories were essential. And it really made me realize and recognize the courage of our current journalists going into Ukraine or Gaza. We wouldn't have any idea what's happening in that part of the world without those folks who dare to be there and dare to find ways to tell that story and bring it back to us.” – Diane Foley.
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Avi Loeb (Harvard Biography, Wikipedia) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss intelligence in outer space. He is a Professor in the Department of Astronomy at Harvard University.
“And my hope is that realizing that we have a smart neighbor that we can learn from would convince us to change our priorities from fighting over territories on this small piece of rock, trying to kill each other, to something more noble, just looking up and having bigger aspirations because there is so much more real estate out there than you find here on Earth.” – Avi Loeb.
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Angie Gad (LinkedIn, Website) joined Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss her career in intelligence analysis. Angie is a first-generation Egyptian-American.
“I think that's what drives me as an analyst. I love to understand why extremists do what they do, what leads them, what are the motivators and the driving force behind their actions and their thoughts and their radicalization.” – Angie Gad.
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Mark Stout (X; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss his new book, World War I and the Foundations of American Intelligence. Mark Stout is a former intelligence analyst and former SPY Historian.
“[After World War I] there will never be a time again when the United States won't have squadrons in the Army Air Corps, later the U. S. Air Force, and similarly the Navy. We would never again be without aerial reconnaissance squadrons. There would never again be a time when the United States didn't have at least one code-breaking organization.” – Mark Stout.
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Andrew Hampton joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss intelligence in New Zealand. Andrew is the Director General of the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service.
“I think for a long time there was a view that our geographical isolation protected us from a range of national security threats. But unfortunately, in the current world, geostrategic competition is playing out in our region. Going back to my old role, you’re only one click away from a cyber-attack … This and misinformation and violent extremism are permeating the whole world. ” – Andrew Hampton.
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David Oranchak (X, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss his work helping to solve the 340 Zodiac cipher. Dave is a software developer and avid puzzle solver.
“It felt like we had gotten a brand new letter from the Zodiac Killer. You know, the case had been dormant for so long … We started to see the message coming through, it was like he was back to life so to speak, he was talking to us again after so many years of not saying anything. So that was kind of eerie to kind of hear the voice of a serial killer.” – David Oranchak.
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Mark Edlitz (X, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss how James Bond lived on in literature after the death of Ian Fleming. Mark is an author and pop culture expert.
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Mark Zaid (X, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss American intelligence and the law. You’ve heard of a “lawyer to the stars,” Mark is the “lawyer to the spies”
“I still love working every day, 30 years later, because there's still something new. As much as I fight for declassification and transparency, I will at times also see information and learn of events where I go, “Oh, I get it. Yeah, that stuff cannot be known. That's incredible what we did. That's pretty wild.” – Mark Zaid.
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Dr. Sara Castro (LinkedIn, Bio) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the history of US-China diplomacy. Sara is an Associate Professor of History at the United States Air Force Academy.
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Mike VanBlaricum (X; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss his journey as a James Bond fanatic and collector. Mike is the President of the Ian Fleming Foundation.
What You’ll Learn
Intelligence
Reflections
And much, much more …
Quotes of the Week
“I've always been fascinated about the study of creativity. And so, between wanting to understand spy craft and that whole human side as well as creativity, creativity like Fleming – How one person can change popular culture, you know, ultimately, something that came out of his mind can change popular culture is just fascinating to me.” – Mike VanBlaricum
Resources
SURFACE SKIM
*SpyCasts*
DEEPER DIVE
Books
o Read the stats by movie here. License to Kill indeed...
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Dr. Ursula Wilder (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the intersections between psychology and intelligence. Ursula is a clinical psychologist with over two decades of experience working at the Central Intelligence Agency.
“Together, these documents are quite powerful. The psych assessments are very, very carefully, tightly held and are classified at a high level. Every intelligence officer has this fantasy about seeing the file that's kept on them by the opponents.” – Dr. Ursula Wilder.
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Dr. Ursula Wilder (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the intersections between psychology and intelligence. Ursula is a clinical psychologist with over two decades of experience working at the Central Intelligence Agency.
“Together, these documents are quite powerful. The psych assessments are very, very carefully, tightly held and are classified at a high level. Every intelligence officer has this fantasy about seeing the file that's kept on them by the opponents.”
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Leon Panetta (Panetta Institute) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss his lifetime of American public service. Secretary Panetta was the 2023 recipient of SPY’s William H. Webster Award.
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Rory Cormac (X) and Richard Aldrich join Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss intelligence and the British Monarchy. The links between the royals and espionage prove the Crown to be far more than just a figurehead.
”What struck me the most was how much access Queen Elizabeth II had, how much she knew … And I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that she probably knew more state secrets than any human being who has ever walked the history of the earth, because she had access to everything for 70 odd years.” – Rory Cormac
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Curators Alexis (LinkedIn) and Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) use James Bond artifacts in SPY’s collection to discuss all things 007. This year marks the 70th anniversary of the first Ian Fleming novel, Casino Royale.
This week on SpyCast, curators Andrew and Alexis join forces to put the past 70 years of Bond into historical perspective. To help frame their conversation, our collections team brought out a fantastic selection of Bond artifacts for Andrew and Alexis to interact with during the recording of this episode.
“I think in general the spy genre always has to have one foot, often two, in the real world. It's part of what makes that genre appealing and not science fiction. It takes place in the real world. And whether that is, you know, some of the technology or real-world threats, it has to be relatable and recognizable in that sense.” – Alexis Albion.
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John Blaxland (Twitter, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss intelligence in Australia and Oceania. John is a widely recognized as a leading expert in this area.
-Australia’s Intelligence Community
-SIGINT in Australia during WWII
-Australia’s relationship with South Asia
-The Pine Gap facility
-The implications of geography
-The power of collaboration
“The shift from the analog to the digital world … The shift for digital espionage, digital footprint management. How do you hide in the noise? How do you cover your identity? How do you protect your identity? … The digital revolution has actually enabled states to exercise a lot more power, a lot more control, a lot more monitoring, a lot more surveillance, a lot more interference.” – John Blaxland.
-Revealing Secrets: An unofficial history of Australian Signals intelligence and the advent of cyber, C. Birgin & J. Blaxland (University of New South Wales Press, 2023)
-SPY CHIEFS: Director-General of Security Mike Burgess - ASIO, Australia & America (2022)
-Keeping Secrets/Disclosing Secrets with Spy Chief turned DG of Australia’s National Archives David Fricker (2022)
-Desperately, Madly in Love – Brett Peppler and the Australian IC (2021)
-East Timor Independence: a short history of a long and brutal struggle, Guardian Australia, YouTube (2019) [4 min. video]
-Our Agencies, National Intelligence Community of Australia (n.d.) [Overview of each agency in the Australian IC]
-What is signals intelligence?, BAE Systems (n.d.) [Short article]
-Spies & Sparrows: ASIO & the Cold War, P. Deery (Melbourne University Press, 2022)
-Australia's First Spies: The Remarkable Story of Australia's Intelligence Operations, 1901-45, J. Fahey (Allen & Unwin, 2019)
-The Official History of ASIO – 3 Volumes, D. Horner, J. Blaxland, R. Crawley (Allen & Unwin, 2014/2015/2016)
-United Nations Resolution 1272 (1999)
-United Nations Resolution 1264 (1999)
-Five Power Defence Arrangements (1971)
-6 Wireless Unit signal sighting of Allied shipping (1945)
-Role and effectiveness of Signals Intelligence in World War II (1945)
-Four Rotor Enigma Machine, Collection of the International Spy Museum (1943-1944)
A TV show about the top-secret satellite surveillance base of the same name. If you’ve seen it, you know it all about Australian Intelligence. Just kidding. But it’s a good watch!
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James Crossland (Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the origins of modern terrorism. James is an expert on terrorism, intelligence, and propaganda.
-The origins of modern terrorism
-19th century spymasters
-Covert action and assassinations
-Intelligence as a weapon
-Philosophy and ideology’s effect on history
-The power of fear
“These waves of repression that feed into discontent and create more radical strains of discontent, that is a process that's really observable during this period. The reason why I think this is the first real age of terrorism is because you have all this stuff coming together: Communications that you need to promote terrorist activities to gain the attention you need, societal discontent, dangerous ideas … and it's all moving around together as part of the same process.” – James Crossland.
-The Rise of Devils: Fear and the Origins of Modern Terrorism, J. Crossland (Manchester University Press, 2023)
-Venice’s Secret Service with Ioanna Iordanou (2023)
-St. Ermin’s Hotel, London – The History of a Legendary Spy Site, with Stephen Duffy (2023)
-Espionage and the Two Queens with Kent Tiernan (2023)
-The Lion and the Fox – Civil War Spy vs. Spy with Alexander Rose (2023)
-Terrorism, J. P. Jenkins, Encyclopaedia Brittanica (2023) [Short article / definition]
-What Were The Most Important Events of the 19th Century?, C. Seaver, History Defined (2022) [Short article]
-Marxism in Under 5 Minutes, Theory in 5, YouTube (2020) [3 min. video]
-Sofia Perovskaya, Terrorist Princess: The Plot to Kill Tsar Alexander II and the Woman Who Led It, R. R. Riggs (Global Harmony Press Inc., 2018)
-The Pursuit of Power: Europe 1815-1914, R. J. Evans (Penguin Books, 2017)
-Blood and Rage: A Cultural History of Terrorism, M. Burleigh (Harper, 2009)
-The assassination, who is responsible? (1901)
-New York Times “Empress of Austria Slain” Article (1898)
-New York Times “War On Terrorism” Article (1881)
-La vérité sur Orsini (1872) [The Truth about Orsini]
-Manifesto of the Paris Commune (1871)
-The Revolutionary Catechism (1869)
-On the Fenian Prisoners in Manchester (1867)
-Procès de Orsini (1858) [The Trial of Orsini]
-You may have already read his classic play Crime and Punishment, but have you read Dostoevsky’s The Idiot (1869)?
This novel is known as Dostoevsky’s most personal work, a story that clearly shows the threads of his own life experiences during 19th century Russia. The novel explores many of the same questions of philosophy and politics explored in this episode of SpyCast.
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Eric Escobar (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss compromising networks and information security. He has a coveted DEFCON Black Badge.
-What keeps Eric up at night
-Thinking like an ethical hacker (aka a “penetration tester)
-Protecting your information (i.e., “Hardening the attack surface”)
-Plain English explanations of key cyber concepts like “Kill Chains” and “Zero Days”
-Having a cool job
-The information revolution and life in the modern world
Eric Escobar commits several thousand felonies on any given day, if he didn’t have permission to do what he was doing.
A Principal Security Consultant with SecureWorks, Eric has compromised pretty much everything out there: from healthcare and banking to technology and critical infrastructure, through to amusement parks and next generation military aircraft.
“From my perspective, it’s the coolest job in the entire world.”
His team consecutively won first place in the Wireless CTF category at DEF CON 23, 24, and 25, snagging a Black Badge along the way. He has a BS and MS in Civil Engineering.
And…
The links between computing, hacking and the 60’s counterculture are FASCINATING. Learn more by dipping your toes here and here, or dive deeper with What the Dormouse Said (2005) by John Markoff and From Counterculture to Cyberculture (2006) by Fred Turner.
"Watching any critical infrastructure get compromised is really the thing that keeps me up at night because lives are in the balance…and we do a lot of testing for critical infrastructure, and I've seen computers and machines that have been online and not been taken offline, longer than I've been alive…So really interesting to see those types of things because they interact with really big, expensive hardware…there's a catch 22 that happens where you can't really take the machine offline to do maintenance on it because it's critical infrastructure. So then how do you test it to make sure that a hacker can't take it offline, or maintenance can't be done on it? " – Eric Escobar.
From beginner thru advanced, you’ll find some helpful definitions of things like “Web 3.0,” “NFT’s” and “Digital Transformation” on this Cyberwire audio glossary.
-Inside Microsoft’s Threat Intelligence Center (MSTIC) – with John Lambert and Cristin Goodwin (2021)
-The Cyber Zeitgeist – with Dave Bittner (2021)
-Securing Cyberspace – with Charlie Mitchell (2016)
-What is Hacking? The Economic Times (n.d.) [web]
-Ethical Hacking in 8 Minutes, Simplilearn (2020) [8 min video]
-Cybersecurity in 7 minutes, Simplilearn (2020) [7 min video]
-The Cyberweapons Arms Race, N. Perloth (Bloomsbury, 2021)
-Cult of the Dead Cow, J. Menn (PublicAffairs, 2020)
-Breaking & Entering, J. Smith (Mariner Books, 2019)
-The Art of Invisibility, K. Mitnick (L, B & C, 2017)
-Ghost in the Wires, K. Mitnick (Back Bay Books, 2012)
-Kingpin, K. Poulson (Crown, 2012)
-The Cuckoo’s Egg, C. Stoll (Doubleday, 1989)
-Neuromancer, W. Gibson (Ace, 1984)
-2022 State of the Threat: A Year in Review, Secureworks (2022)
-The Anthropology of Hackers, The Atlantic (2010)
-Timeline Since 2006: Significant Cyber Incidents, CSIS (n.d.)
-DEFCON, The Documentary Network (2013)
-Government Hacking Bibliography, S. Quinlan, New America Foundation (2016)
-“The Aurora Shard”
Come to the International Spy Museum to see an ugly chunk of metal. Why? Well, it speaks to a revolution in the relationship between the material world and the non-material world. Broken down? 30 lines of code blew up a 27-ton generator. Zeros and ones can cause violent explosions!
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Alan Kohler joins Andrew to discuss the FBI’s counterintelligence division. He is a recipient of the FBI Director’s Award for Outstanding Counterintelligence Investigation.
-Counterintelligence vs. Counterespionage
-How the FBI recruit’s foreign agents
-Ideological motivations behind spying
-Effect of technology on counterintelligence
-Staying grounded under pressure
-The value of creativity
Alan Kohler (LinkedIn, Website) has been the FBI Assistant Director for Counterintelligence since 2020. Alan and Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) talk all things counterintelligence.
-The FBI & Cyber with Cyber Division Chief Bryan Vorndran, Part 1 (2022)
-The FBI & Cyber with Cyber Division Chief Bryan Vorndran, Part 2 (2022)
-My Global Career as a Female FBI Agent with Kathy Stearman (2021)
-The FBI Way with Counterintelligence Spy Chief Frank Figliuzzi (2021)
-What We Investigate, FBI (n.d.) [webpage]
-FAQ’S, FBI (n.d.) [webpage]
-US Opens Counterintelligence Investigation into China Every 12 Hours (Dir. Wray), MSNBC (2022) [video]
-What We Know About China’s Spy Agency, Bloomberg Originals (2019) [video]
-Hollow Nickel/Rudolf Abel, FBI (n.d.) [Article]
-NCSC Mission, Vision, and Goals, ODNI (n.d.) [Website]
-Counterintelligence: Information gathered, and activities conducted to identify, deceive, exploit, disrupt, or protect against espionage or other intelligence activities
-FBI Attaché: a special agent assigned to a U.S. embassy or consulate overseas to liaise with local law enforcement and intelligence agencies. They pursue terrorist, intelligence, and criminal threats with international dimensions.
-Occam’s Razor: a rule of thumb theory that states when you are faced with competing explanations for the same phenomenon, the simplest one is probably the correct one. Attributed to William of Ockham, a 14th century English theologian.
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Shane Harris (Twitter, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the role of intelligence in the Ukraine conflict one year after it began. Shane reports on intelligence for the Washington Post and is the author of two books.
-Where we are with the war in Ukraine
-The role intelligence agencies are playing in the conflict
-The leadership of Zelensky and Putin
-What it’s like to report on spies
-Dealing with sources inside the intelligence agencies
-The tenacity of the Ukrainian people and army
-History as both repetitive and unpredictable
This week on SpyCast, Shane Harris of The Washington Post joins Andrew to reflect on the previous year and discuss the role of intelligence within the war in Ukraine. He has been writing about these issues for more than two decades, including a period with the Wall Street Journal. He is the author of two books, The Watchers, on the rise of surveillance in the US, and @War, on the rise of the military-internet complex. He was part of a team that won the Pulitzer Prize for Public Service in 2021.
“At the outset, [I] believed that what we were looking at was probably a pretty swift Russian victory … They would come in, they would decapitate the central government in Kiev in the first 72 hours, and it would be bloody, and it would be violent, but that Russia would prevail because they were deemed to have the superior military in terms of technology experience numbers. Turns out, all those things were spectacularly wrong.” – Shane Harris.
-How Artificial Intelligence is Changing the Spy Game with Mike Susong (2023)
-Dealing with Russia A Conversation with Counterintelligence Legend Jim Olson (2022)
-Becoming a Russian Intelligence Officer with Janosh Neumann (2022)
-The Information Battlespace: Foreign Denial and Deception with Bill Parquette (2022)
-Has Putin's war failed and what does Russia want?, P. Kirby, BBC (2023)
-A Brief History of Modern Ukraine, BBC (2022) [YouTube video]
-Russia-Ukraine Relations in 60 Seconds, CBC News (2022)
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Bonny Lin (Biography) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the current state of China and intelligence. Bonny is the Director of the ChinaPower Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
-China’s economic power and status
-The current landscape of Chinese intelligence
-China’s relationship with Taiwan
-The ChinaPower Project
-Power and prominence
-The global community as a complicated ecosystem
“In the last couple of years, we've seen really a securitization of how China views intelligence and national security in general. And just this July, we saw China pass a revised counter espionage law. So with the whole host of laws of China's past since 2014 … it basically has made collection of intelligence and protecting Chinese national security the responsibility of every Chinese citizen.” - Bonny Lin.
-The Eye of Horus: Egyptian Intelligence with Dina Rezk (2023)
-China’s Corporate Spy War with CNBC’s Eamon Javers (2023)
-The Counterintelligence Chief with FBI Assistant Director Alan Kohler (2023)
-Trafficking Data: The Digital Struggle with China with Aynne Kokas (2022)
-China-Taiwan crisis explained: What is behind the tensions?, ITV News, YouTube (2022) [3 min. video]
-8 things you need to know about China’s economy, World Economic Forum (2016) [Short article]
-Xi Jinping, Forbes (n.d) [Brief profile]
-Spies and Lies: How China's Greatest Covert Operations Fooled the World, A. Joske (Hardie Grant, 2022)
-The Chinese Invasion Threat: Taiwan’s Defense and American Strategy in Asia, I. Easton (Eastbridge Books, 2019)
-The Hundred-Year Marathon: China's Secret Strategy to Replace America as the Global Superpower, M. Pillsbury (St. Martin’s Griffin, 2016)
-National Intelligence Estimate – China-Taiwan: Prospects or Cross-Strait Relations (1999)
-Forecasting the Sino-Vietnamese Split (1986)
-China-Vietnam: A Status Report (1983)
-Establishment of a China Task Force (1966)
-Communist Chinese Intervention in the Vietnam War (1966)
-Controls on Trade with Communist China (1955)
-Need a good cookie recipe for the holidays? Try this recipe adapted from the 1300-year old cookies found during the 1915 excavation of the Astana Cemetery in Xinjiang, China.
-The petrified cookies are currently part of the collection of the British Museum, and still look quite tasty!
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Barry Zulauf (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his extensive experience working across the American intelligence community. Barry is the President of the International Association for Intelligence Education.
“[Fentanyl] is an enormous, enormous problem and no single organization, even as big as the Defense Intelligence enterprise, can deal with it alone. So, it's going to be a lot of diplomacy and a lot of building bridges, convincing people to do the right thing.” – Barry Zulauf.
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Robert Wittman (Website; Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his career and the FBI’s Art Crime Team. Bob recovered over $300 million worth of stolen art and cultural property over the course of his career.
“The motivation for writing the book was to get the word out how important cultural heritage is. It really is important to make the public realize that this is an important program that should be supported by law enforcement both local and federal.” – Robert Wittman.
*Wildcard Resource*
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Dina Rezk (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss Egyptian intelligence. Dina is an Associate Professor of Modern Middle Eastern History at the University of Reading.
“I think that's one of the ways in which the Egyptian Intelligence Service sort of conceives of its primary responsibility. It's about maintaining internal security, and particularly at the moment you know, since 2014, I would say sort of eliminating any sort of political opposition, any possibility of political opposition.” – Dina Rezk.
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Rear Admiral Tim Woods (Biography) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his role as Britain’s Defence Attaché to the United States. Tim previously served as the British Defence Attaché in Kyiv, Ukraine.
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Laura Tohe (Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the stories of the WWII Navajo Code Talkers. Laura is a Diné author and the Poet Laureate of the Navajo Nation.
“When they got into the service they were told, ‘Now you're going to use your language to develop a code.’ They said, ‘But, back at home they told us not to speak Navajo, and now they want us to develop a code in Navajo?’ So, they were not only astounded, they were puzzled why they would be asked to do this when they were in a school where their identity was being erased.” – Laura Tohe.
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Andrew leads a SPY Museum panel discussion between four experts on the most damaging mole in FBI history, Robert Hanssen. This program was in collaboration with CBS/Paramount on their new podcast “Agent of Betrayal"
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Col. (Ret.) Shlomo Mofaz (LinkedIn) and Col (Ret.) Zohar Palti (Wikipedia) join Andrew to discuss their respective careers in the Israeli Defense Forces and the Mossad.
This week on SpyCast, we bring you a Double Bill featuring Shlomo Mofaz and Zohar Palti. Shlomo Mofaz is the former Head of Counter-terrorism Analysis for the Israeli Defense forces, and currently serves as the director of the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center. Among positions within the IDF and the Ministry of Defense, Zohar Palti formerly served as the Head of Intelligence for the Mossad.
This episode is the final installment of SpyCast’s month-long special series on Israeli intelligence. This series has coincided with the ongoing Israel-Hamas War. We hope that through these episodes we’ve provided listeners with a bit of clarity and background on the conflict and its major players.
“When you're dealing with intelligence, mistakes are very problematic … People make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes, but you need to choose the best people that you can work with and you can count on to bring the information or the service that you need in real time.“ -Shlomo Mofaz.
“They can't be the best over here in the Middle East right now that we can deal with any threat in a radius of 2000 kilometers without being, in a way, superpowering intelligence. We are not superpowering other issues. In intelligence, we are really, really good. And this is, first of all, to protect our family. And secondly, surviving over here in the region. We have to be the best.” -Zohar Palti.
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Lt. Col. (ret.) Aviram Halevi (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss Israel’s top secret commando unit, Sayeret Matkal. Aviram formerly served as Deputy Commander-in-Chief of Sayeret Matkal.
This week on SpyCast, Andrew was joined by Aviram Halevi, former Deputy Commander-in-Chief of Sayeret Matkal, Israel’s top-secret elite commando unit. Aviram served over two decades in various branches of Israeli intelligence, and recently co-wrote the book Sayeret Matkal: The Greatest Operations of Israel's Elite Commandos. Andrew and Aviram discuss the origins and history of the unit, including the stories of some of Sayeret Matkal’s most notable operations.
And…
Sayeret Matkal’s motto is “Who Dares Wins” – A motto first used by Britain’s Special Air Service during World War II. Since then, 11 other elite special forces units have also adopted the saying.
“What makes [Sayeret Matkal] so unique? The fact is that these people, and you mentioned that before, we are not rambos and there is no ramboism in the unit in Sayeret Matkal. On the contrary, the basic building block of the Sayeret is the team. The team is what you're kind of imprinted with once you get drafted. And this will be your designation forever. I'm team Raz. Raz was my commander, and my soldiers are team Aviram for the rest of their lives.” – Aviram Halevi.
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Welcome to a very special bonus episode of SpyCast, coming to you directly from the stage of the International Spy Museum. Last month, we hosted a live panel discussion in collaboration with our friends at Goat Rodeo who produced the new podcast, Spy Valley: An Engineer’s Nuclear Betrayal, a series by Project Brazen and PRX.
The riveting series tells the true story of James Harper, a Silicon Valley engineer turned spy who sold nuclear secrets to the Soviet Bloc. The series takes listeners on a journey of nuclear spying, technology theft, and double agents, with intelligence that might still help Moscow in a nuclear exchange today. Tune in to all six episodes of Spy Valley NOW to learn more!
This live panel features moderator Sharon Weinberger, the national security and foreign policy editor at The Wall Street Journal, featuring Zach Dorfman, investigative journalist and host of Spy Valley; John Gibbons, who headed the United States Attorney's prosecution team in the case against James Harper; Dr. Raymond J. Batvins, Former Supervisory Special Agent and Counterintelligence Course Instructor at the Institute of World Politics; and Dr. Vince Houghton, Director of the National Cryptologic Museum and former historian at SPY. They’ll explore how the tech capital of the world became a hotbed for Soviet Bloc spies and what James Harper’s betrayal of his country has meant for modern day warfare.
Thank you to our friends and collaborators at Goat Rodeo, Project Brazen, and PRX for their support of this program.
Listen to the series here or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Uri Bar-Joseph (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the intelligence failure of the Yom Kippur War. Uri is an author and professor emeritus at Haifa University.
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Uzi Arad (Wikipedia) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss intelligence and policy at the highest level. Uzi was also a former foreign policy advisor to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Director of Intelligence for the Mossad.
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Brig. Gen. (res.) Erez David Maisel (Twitter, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to provide a crash-course in Israeli Intelligence history. Erez is a researcher and former head of the IDF’s International Cooperation Division.
This week on SpyCast, Andrew was joined by Erez David Maisel to discuss an overview of the history of intelligence and espionage in Israel. This episode is the first in our 5-part series on Israeli Intelligence. In this month-long series, SpyCast takes a deep dive into the ins and outs of intelligence and espionage in Israel – its intricate history, agencies, major successes and failures, and current state. In this first episode, Erez helps us to lay out a broad roadmap of the history of Israeli intelligence, providing an excellent foundation of knowledge to build upon in the coming weeks. Stay tuned!
And…
Erez is an alumni of the University of Haifa, which sits atop the northeastern slope of Israel’s Mount Caramel mountain rage. On the western side of the range, you can find the The Nahal Me’arot / Wadi el-Mughara Caves, a UNESCO World Heritage Site that documents over 500,000 years of the history human evolution.
“I would say that from 1909 until probably the early eighties of the 20th century, the biggest threat is survival. You know, this fear that somebody … would come and do something. And we have to protect ourselves from that.” – Erez David Maisel.
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Letitia “Tish” Long (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss her time as the Director of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency. Tish was the first woman to be appointed director of an American intelligence agency.
“Make sure that you are taking care of yourself, that you're getting that balance, you know, work life balance. And when I say that, I mean many different things because everybody is different. Whether it's family, friends, spiritual, physical, or working out, you’ve got to take care of all aspects of yourself so you're ready to give 110%. Because that's what the intelligence community takes.” – Tish Long.
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Vappala Balachandran (Wikipedia) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his career and the ancient roots of espionage in India. Bala formerly served as Special Secretary for India’s Cabinet Secretariat.
“There was a lot of pressure. There was a lot of pressure, especially, for example: Certain incidents happening – What would be the repercussions in India? Now, anything that happens in Pakistan, it will have some repercussions in India. And, same thing in Afghanistan, and then all the neighboring countries, we are to watch them.” – Vappala Balachandran.
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Michael McElgunn (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss intelligence in the Republic of Ireland. Michael is the Assistant Commissioner of An Garda Síochána’s Crime and Security Intelligence Service.
“I think people should in general take comfort from the work that is done by intelligence services and the exceptional collaboration that there is with these services to keep people safe. And that is not just at home, that's abroad – Where we come into possession of a piece of intelligence that we feel will be a value elsewhere, we'll share that elsewhere.” – Michael McElgunn.
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Summary
Brigadier General (Ret.) Wilson Boinett joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss Kenyan intelligence. Wilson is the former Director of Kenya’s National Intelligence Service.
What You’ll Learn
Intelligence
Reflections
*EXTENDED SHOW NOTES & FULL TRANSCRIPT HERE*
Episode Notes
This week on SpyCast, we are thrilled to be joined by our first ever African intelligence chief. Brigadier General (Ret.) Wilson Boinett is the individual credited with transforming Kenya’s National Intelligence Service into the world-class agency it is today. Following a decades long career in the Kenyan Army, Wilson became the first Director of the newly created intelligence agency in 1999. He believed in the possibly of change and the potential for collaboration amongst East African countries and set out to do just that. Tune in to this week’s episode to learn more about his extraordinary career and lessons in leadership.
This episode is the second in our Spy Chiefs Special series that will run throughout September. Stay tuned in the weeks to come to hear perspectives from Ireland, India, and the first woman to direct an American intelligence organization.
*EXTENDED SHOW NOTES & FULL TRANSCRIPT HERE*
Quotes of the Week
I was coming in at the time when all those things were happening and the Cold War was over, and the western intelligence did not care very much what Kenya was going to do. So, I had an opportunity to look at this monster called change …. I went to the president, and I said, “I think it is time to change.” And he said, “Go change it.”
Resources
SURFACE SKIM
*SpyCasts*
*Beginner Resources*
*EXTENDED SHOW NOTES & FULL TRANSCRIPT HERE*
DEEPER DIVE
Books
Primary Sources
*EXTENDED SHOW NOTES & FULL TRANSCRIPT HERE*
*Wildcard Resource*
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David Petraeus (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter, LinkedIn) to discuss his strategic analysis of the war in Ukraine. General Petraeus is a former Director of the CIA.
David Petraeus was CIA Director between September 2011 and November 2012, and prior to that had a 37-year career in the U.S. Army, rising to its highest rank of 4 star General. Are you curious to hear an in-depth strategic analysis of the Ukraine War from one of the most talented American officers of his generation? Would you like to know more about his time as CIA Director? Listen in to find out.
"This is the first war with smartphones, internet connectivity, and social media, such as we see here. It was not present before. even really in the Iraq and Afghanistan war, certainly not to this scale. so that is a dramatic change…It also gives a degree of transparency to this war that I don't think has ever existed before." – David Petraeus.
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Bill Britton (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) in a discussion about cybersecurity and cyber awareness. Bill is the Director of the California Cybersecurity Institute and CIO at Cal Poly.
This week on SpyCast, Andrew was joined in the studio by Bill Britton, Vice President of Information Technology, Chief Information Officer at Cal Poly, and the Director of the California Cybersecurity Institute. Bill joins us to discuss the work Cal Poly is doing to train, accelerate, and empower the next generation of cybersecurity professionals.
And…
In 2011, Oprah Winfrey declared San Luis Obispo “America’s Happiest City,” and it’s no wonder why – the quiet city is nestled within a beautiful landscape surrounded by historic architecture, interesting landmarks, and over 250 vineyards. Erin and Andrew are rethinking their East coast lifestyles…
“We're trying to establish a way that people think differently about what cyber really is and does for them, and how it can be an expediter of their abilities to have a job and do great things for not just themselves, but the nation at large.” – Bill Britton
*EXTENDED SHOW NOTES & FULL TRANSCRIPT HERE*
*EXTENDED SHOW NOTES & FULL TRANSCRIPT HERE*
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Keith Michaels (LinkedIn) and James Lockhart (LinkedIn) join Andrew to discuss intelligence in an unlikely place: Casinos! James and Keith have collectively over 30 years of experience within Las Vegas gaming surveillance.
This week on SpyCast, Andrew is joined by Keith Michaels and James Lockhart on a journey into the secret underbelly of the “Gambling Capital of the World,” Las Vegas. How do casinos conduct surveillance, and what prompted them to adopt formal surveillance operations? Tune in to find out.
“Casino operations are venues for intelligence activity, not just for the low-level criminal or the higher-level criminal, but also nation states … You know, we're only catching about 35% of what's going on. There's a lot of cash moving around very fast. A lot of people coming in and out in a casino. So, the possibilities are kind of endless.” – James Lockhart.
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Eamon Javers (Twitter, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter, LinkedIn) to discuss China’s Corporate Spy War. Eamon is the Senior Washington correspondent at CNBC.
This week on SpyCast, Andrew is joined by CNBC’s Senior Washington Correspondent Eamon Javers to discuss his new documentary, China’s Corporate Spy War.
“I don't think people in corporate America knew that, fully understood the scale of the threat. They thought this was kind of an annoyance like shoplifting is, and that you kind of just build in some procedures and there's some sunk costs associated with that, and you move on. What these intelligence guys were describing was an entirely different threat. This was the elimination of major American brands from the global marketplace.” - Eamon Javers.
***FULL SHOWNOTES AVAILABLE HERE***
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Steve James (IMDb) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his new film, A Compassionate Spy. 18-year-old Ted Hall was the youngest physicist working on the Manhattan Project in Los Alamos.
Steve James has been nominated for two Academy Awards: Best Documentary Feature in 2018 for Abacus: Small Enough to Jail, and Best Film Editing in 1995 for Hoop Dreams. Steve is the first Oscar nominee to join us on SpyCast since Robert de Niro sat down with our first host Peter Earnest in 2009!
“Ted was young and naive in some ways, but his reasons for what he did were not grounded in fantasy … Whether you support what he did or not, I don't know that the U. S. having the bomb all to itself would have been a great thing, given that we are the only nation to have actually dropped the bomb on anyone, period.” – Steve James.
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Michael Vickers (Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his remarkable career and memoir. He was formerly the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence.
Michael Vickers has been on a heck of a ride. He started out as a U.S. Army private with no degree and went on to oversee hundreds of thousands of people as the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence while holding a Ph.D. from Johns Hopkins. Michael is the author of By All Means Available: Memoirs of a Life in Intelligence, Special Operation & Strategy.
"That weapon was called the Special Atomic Demolition Munition [i.e., “Nuclear Backpack] ...it was a sporty, uh, you know, it seemed like a good idea when I was 23 years old. So, there you have it." – Michael Vickers.
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Jorhena Thomas (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss her career as an analyst and passion for intelligence education. Jorhena spent 8 years in the FBI as an Intelligence Analyst.
Andrew is joined by Jorhena Thomas: educator, mentor, and analysis extraordinaire. It was a pleasure to have Jorhena in the studio to discuss to her career, which began at the Federal Bureau of Investigation where she served as an intelligence analyst for 8 years. She moved on to work at the Washington D.C. Fusion Center, the District of Columbia Deputy Mayor’s Office, and in private consulting. She currently lectures at both American University and Georgetown University, and serves as the Director of Mentorship and Professional Advancement at Girl Security.
And…
Women make up 59% (more than half!) of the FBI’s Intelligence Analysis workforce. This has come along way since the first female FBI special agents, Joanna Pierce Misko and Susan Roley Malone, were hired in 1972. However, the work is not done. SpyCast is proud to highlight Jorhena’s work with Girl Security, supporting, mentoring, and training the next generations of women in intelligence.
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Leta McCollough Seletsky (Website; Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to share the story of her father, the famous “Kneeling Man” – The man knelt next to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. at his assassination at the Lorraine Motel in 1968. Leta is a litigator turned essayist and memoirist.
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Ryan Zimmerman (MLB Stats; Wikipedia) and Marc Polymeropoulos (Twitter; LinkedIn) join Andrew to discuss intelligence and America’s pastime. From the SpyCast Field of Dreams.
Buy me some peanuts and crackerjack. Few things in the world compare to sitting back, putting your feet up, and cracking open a cold one while watching the World Series.
For the 2021 World Series Marc joined us for a fantastic discussion on the links between baseball and espionage. How do we top that? A baseball fanatic ex-CIA officer?
Why, how about getting a first-round draft pick, World Series Champion with over 6500 at-bats? Done! Enter Ryan Zimmerman, Mr. National!
Ever wondered about signs-stealing, how to run a baseball counterintelligence operation, or what some of the many, many links are between baseball and espionage? You’ve come to the right place for a discussion that goes to the bottom of the ninth inning over a two-episode conversation.
Ryan played for the Nationals from 2005, when he was a first-round draft pick, through to 2021, when his #11 jersey was retired. He is an ex- All-Star, Silver Slugger, Gold Glove winner, and 2019 World Series Champion.
Marc is a highly decorated former CIA operations officer who specialized in counterterrorism, the Middle East, and South Asia. Prior to his retirement, he served at CIA headquarters in charge of clandestine operations in Europe and Eurasia. He is the author of the 2021 book, “Clarity in Crisis: Leadership Lessons from the CIA.”
And…
“Big Data” is upending many fields, not least baseball and espionage. Gaining a competitive edge is central to both activities, the big argument is about how much “soul” is lost along the way. The Houston Astros have been a lighting-rod team, whose “smart and modern” or “cold and cynical” approach has been discussed at Penn's Wharton School of Business and in the pages of the Harvard Business Review.
"I think “Dare to Fail” is enormous. I would want you to put me up at the bases load in the bottom of the ninth. I'll take it every single time. Even if I feel like I have zero chance, I want to be there." - Ryan Zimmerman
"You know, you have to have that mentality in these professions." - Marc Polymeropoulos
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Ioanna Iordanou (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss Venice’s Secret Service. Her research on “centralized intelligence” during the Italian Renaissance has secured her two entries in Guiness World Records!
“Considering some of the most significant challenges we face right now, such as disease, we just got over a global pandemic or migration or trade or climate change or cybersecurity, all these issues do not stop at the borders like any early modern spies, they cross borders. So even reflecting on how people dealt with these things in the past might help us make better political, social, economic decisions.” – Ioanna Iordanou.
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This week on SpyCast, Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) is joined by former DPRK Agent Kim, Hyun Woo. This is the first time Dr. Kim has stepped out from the shadows to speak.
*EXTENDED SHOW NOTES & FULL TRANSCRIPT HERE*
“When I envision reunification, I am envisioning reunified Korea under a liberal democratic system as opposed to say, unified Korea under a more North Korean system – That I oppose. My desire is that in a unified Korea, even North Korean populous or population living in northern parts of the Korean Peninsula will be guaranteed fundamental, standard rights as humans.” – Agent Kim, Hyun Woo.
*EXTENDED SHOW NOTES & FULL TRANSCRIPT HERE*
*EXTENDED SHOW NOTES & FULL TRANSCRIPT HERE*
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Calder Walton (Website, Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the 100-year intelligence war between the United States and Russia. Calder is the author of the new book, SPIES.
My conclusion, unfortunately, Andrew, is that looking at this large sweep of history that we have, not so much a Putin problem today, but a Russia problem. And the Russia problem has been persistent over a hundred years, which is why it makes me very cautious about speculation … Unfortunately, it seems to me that the Putin and the people he surrounds himself with in the Kremlin are all cut from this very similar cloth as he is.
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Cory Graff (Website, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter, LinkedIn) to discuss the D-Day deception operation to mask the landings at Normandy. Cory is a Curator at The National World War II Museum in New Orleans, Louisiana.
“During the evenings, French Resistance is taking over and blowing up train tracks and sort of funneling people this way. And that's another thing to talk about when we talk about D-Day is, intelligence was gained from French citizens beforehand. And the night of the 5th & 6th, we witnessed something like a thousand points of sabotage within the area directed at the Germans.” – Cory Graff on the French Resistance’s contribution to D-Day
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Noah Hurowitz (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss infamous drug kingpin El Chapo. A weak link in his cybersecurity set-up would help bring him down.
Joaquín Archivaldo Guzmán Loera, aka El Chapo (shorty) because of his 5-foot 6-inch frame, was called by one of the agents chasing him, “the godfather of the drug world.” So, how did a low-level drug dealer from a provincial state rise to try and subvert the Mexican government to his will? What was the intelligence game that played out with regards to El Chapo? How did the cartels use spytech, tradecraft and cybersecurity to stay one step ahead of the law? How was he caught?
To answer these questions and more, Andrew sat down with Noah Horowitz who covered the trial of El Chapo in Brooklyn for Rolling Stone magazine. Noah is also the author of the recent book El Chapo, and his work has appeared in the Village Voice, the Baffler and New York Magazine.
And…
In the El Chapo trial, question No.57 asked prospective jurors, “Are you familiar with Jesus Malverde?” If you are not familiar with this angel of the poor (el ángel de los pobres) as well as the Sinaloan narcos (el narcosantón), then you can find out why this question would be relevant here, here, here and here.
"So, in addition to encrypted communications…he was also installing spyware on Blackberry devices that El Chapo was giving out to his lieutenants and his girlfriends and his wives. And then EL Chapo was able to use this, the spyware program to see what was on their phones. He was able to see their text messages. He was able to see their locations. He was even able to remotely activate their mic and listen to them. And he loved that…it was like a toy to him almost. He became obsessed with it." – Noah Hurowitz
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Curators Alexis (LinkedIn) and Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) use James Bond artifacts in SPY’s collection to discuss all things 007. This year marks the 70th anniversary of the first Ian Fleming novel, Casino Royale.
This week on SpyCast, curators Andrew and Alexis join forces to put the past 70 years of Bond into historical perspective. To help frame their conversation, our collections team brought out a fantastic selection of Bond artifacts for Andrew and Alexis to interact with during the recording of this episode.
“I think in general the spy genre always has to have one foot, often two, in the real world. It's part of what makes that genre appealing and not science fiction. It takes place in the real world. And whether that is, you know, some of the technology or real-world threats, it has to be relatable and recognizable in that sense.” – Alexis Albion.
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Curators Alexis (LinkedIn) and Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) use James Bond artifacts in SPY’s collection to discuss all things 007. This year marks the 70th anniversary of the first Ian Fleming novel, Casino Royale.
This week on SpyCast, curators Andrew and Alexis join forces to put the past 70 years of Bond into historical perspective. To help frame their conversation, our collections team brought out a fantastic selection of Bond artifacts for Andrew and Alexis to interact with during the recording of this episode.
“I think in general the spy genre always has to have one foot, often two, in the real world. It's part of what makes that genre appealing and not science fiction. It takes place in the real world. And whether that is, you know, some of the technology or real-world threats, it has to be relatable and recognizable in that sense.” – Alexis Albion.
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Stephen Duffy (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the spy stories of St. Ermin’s Hotel in London. It includes links to SOE, MI6, Ian Fleming, and the Cambridge 5.
During World War II, the hotel was the birthplace of Sir Winston Churchill’s Special Operations Executive – a crucial element in his initiative to “set Europe ablaze.” Notorious spies Kim Philby and Donald Maclean were known to enjoy a drink at the hotel bar while sharing secrets with their Soviet handlers. And that’s not all – to learn the rest, you’ll have to listen to the episode.
“That’s where Burgess, MacLean, and Philby at different times met their Russian handlers in plain sight and sat there and spoke normally. Didn't talk out the side of their mouths, didn't have red carnations and copies of the Financial Times under their arm. They just passed over their information, their paperwork or whatever, in plain sight to everybody.” – Stephen Duffy.
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David Cattler (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss NATO’s intelligence response to the ongoing war in Ukraine. David currently serves as NATO’s Assistant Secretary General for Intelligence and Security.
And much, much more …
Last February, SpyCast brought you an episode featuring David Cattler, focused on his role as NATO’s Assistant Secretary General for Intelligence and Security. Only a few weeks after that episode was published, Russia invaded the Ukraine on February 24th, 2022, catalyzing the first war on European soil since World War II. Only three weeks ago, NATO gained their newest member of the alliance, Finland, with the hopes of ratifying Sweden’s membership soon.
This week, we bring David back on to discuss how his position has evolved and changed alongside the war in Ukraine, and how NATO is responding to the ongoing crisis. What impact does the inclusion of Finland (and hopefully Sweden) make on the European continent? Tune in to find out more.
And…
With Finland’s recent membership, NATO is currently comprised of 31 independent nations. Out of these 30, only one member state doesn’t have a standing army – Can you guess which? Hint: It’s Iceland!
"It's not just about Ukraine. It really is about what kind of world we all want to live in. There are rules and the rules really do establish that nations of people have rights to be free. To make decisions for themselves, to be sovereign, to be safe within their own borders. To be free from harm and certainly free from being threatened in the way that we've seen here." – David Cattler.
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R. Kent Tiernan joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the seven-year covert operation to execute Mary Queen of Scots. Kent is the author of The Walsingham Gambit.
Elizabeth I, daughter of Henry VIII and his second wife Anne Boleyn, survived no less than 9 elaborate plots against her life. In an era of religious conflict and constant power struggles, it was perhaps more important than ever to run an effective intelligence service.
R. Kent Tiernan previously served as an intelligence officer in the United States Air Force, and an assistant professor of history at the United States Air Force Academy. Kent also served as the Vice Chairman and Staff Director of the Foreign Denial and Deception Committee before retiring in 2014 at the rank of Senior National Intelligence Service officer.
Our analysts do a wonderful job, but it's very difficult for them because they're looking for continuity or congruity in the information, uh, in order to come up with an answer or a best evaluation of truth. Our job was looking for incongruities in the information. Uh, things that didn't make sense the other evidence was leaning one way, but then we'd get a bit of evidence, and it just didn't make sense to what we were seeing, uh, normally.
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Dr. Dennis Walters (LinkedIn; Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the Irregular Warfare Center and its ties to intelligence. Dennis is the current Acting Director of the IWC.
This week on SpyCast, the IWC’s Acting Director Dr. Dennis Walters joins Andrew in a conversation about all thing's irregular warfare. What is irregular warfare, and how does it differ from conventional warfare? What is the mission of the IW Center, and what tools and tactics do they employ to accomplish this? Tune in to find out.
And…
Want to keep your enemies at bay, try an irregular approach – throw a “Scorpion Bomb” at them: yes, it is literally a glass jar filled with scorpions. The tactic was resurrected by ISIS.
Dr. Dennis Walters is the acting Director of the Irregular Warfare Center. He served in the United States Army for 26 years, with time spent in the Army Intelligence Corps and in command of a Special Forces Operations Detachment in the Balkans. Upon his retirement from the Army, Dennis worked to build a network of irregular warfare experts that would culminate in the Department of Defense Regional Defense Fellowship Program. He has also instructed college courses on irregular warfare at the National Defense University and Regent University. He speaks fluent Russian.
"It varies based on region, based on country, based on culture. And that's the part that we have not done well on the U.S. side, really factoring in all of those social implications of how you structure programs to make a country more stable, more resilient, more leaning towards the ideals that support a global community. That's the part that I think that we were missing in some cases." – Dr. Dennis Walters.
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This week’s episode is the result of a collaboration with The Sound, a recent limited series podcast exploring the so-called Havana Syndrome. The guests are host and investigative journalist Nicky Woolf (Twitter), former senior CIA operations officer and sufferer Marc Polymeropoulos (Twitter), and attorney and advocate Mark Zaid (Twitter).
"There’s a betrayal I felt when the CIA didn't give me the medical attention that I needed. You know, if you're not feeling well and an employee comes to you, send 'em to the doctor. And they weren't able to do that. And to me, that's just a leadership fail for the ages." – Marc Polymeropoulos.
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Sameer Patil (Twitter; Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss intelligence and cybersecurity in the world’s most populous nation. He formerly worked in the NSC Secretariat in the Prime Minister’s Office in New Delhi.
Sameer Patil is a senior fellow at the Observer Research Foundation, where he is an expert on the intersection between cybersecurity, counterterrorism, and national security. Previously, he served as the Assistant Director of the National Security Council Secretariat at the Prime Minister’s Office in New Delhi. He has a PhD in International Relations from Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi, and is the author of the 2022 book Securing India in the Cyber Era.
"So, it's a very unique relationship because if you see both the countries, uh, in a sense emerged as modern nation states at around the same time. India attended independence in 1947 the Chinese Communist party emerged victory years from a protracted civil war. In 1949 and. Initial periods of both the countries, as modern nation states were very cordial relationship, very friendly relationship in fact, we had a very populous slogan at that time, which is known as “Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai,” which means India, China, Brothers - Indians and Chinese are brothers together. But by the late 1950s, many of the issues started to unravel." – Sameer Patil.
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Summary
Dr. Alexis Albion (LinkedIn, Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss amazing artifacts with amazing stories from SPY’s newest pop-up exhibit: “Secrets Revealed: Highlights from the Grant Verstandig Collection.”
“To us, that might be the Rosenbergs – These sort of incredible historic figures from the Cold War Intelligence. But to Mike Meeropol, it's his mom and dad. So, I think it's a really human story as well. This letter makes recommendations about their sentencing, about life and death, and again, for me it evokes that really human dimension about whether or not this mother might have lived.” – Dr. Alexis Albion.
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Yossi Kuperwasser (Twitter; Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the Israeli intelligence community. Yossi is the former head of the Research Division of IDF Military Intelligence.
“That's the problem of intelligence - It's an ongoing learning process. And if you don't learn all the time to enable you to adjust to the developing situation, you are going to fail.” – Yossi Kuperwasser.
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Nigel West (Wikipedia) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss Germany’s military intelligence service during WWII, the Abwehr. Nigel is known as the expert’s expert on spy history.
“The Germans were ruthless. They had really good intelligence on all the bridges. They knew exactly what had to be captured in advance. The bridges would then be held, so as to allow the tanks over, and the tanks wouldn't wait to attack strong points. They would just go directly ahead in order to achieve their objectives.” – Nigel West.
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Cathy Hackl (Twitter, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the potential implications of the metaverse on intelligence. Cathy has been called the “Godmother of the Metaverse.”
The web will continue to evolve and change with time, but what’s coming next? And how will this evolution affect the ways that intelligence organizations around the world conduct their operations?
This week on SpyCast, Cathy Hackl joins Andrew to explain what the metaverse is, what we can expect from living in this new virtual world, and how intelligence agencies can begin planning for the Web 3 future. Cathy Hackl has been dubbed the “Godmother of the Metaverse”
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Shane Harris (Twitter, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the role of intelligence in the Ukraine conflict one year after it began. Shane reports on intelligence for the Washington Post and is the author of two books.
This week on SpyCast, Shane Harris of The Washington Post joins Andrew to reflect on the previous year and discuss the role of intelligence within the war in Ukraine. He has been writing about these issues for more than two decades, including a period with the Wall Street Journal. He is the author of two books, The Watchers, on the rise of surveillance in the US, and @War, on the rise of the military-internet complex. He was part of a team that won the Pulitzer Prize for Public Service in 2021.
“At the outset, [I] believed that what we were looking at was probably a pretty swift Russian victory … They would come in, they would decapitate the central government in Kiev in the first 72 hours, and it would be bloody, and it would be violent, but that Russia would prevail because they were deemed to have the superior military in terms of technology experience numbers. Turns out, all those things were spectacularly wrong.” – Shane Harris.
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Aliza Bran (LinkedIn, Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss her role as Media Relations Manager at the International Spy Museum. Aliza is a D.C. native and graduate of Washington University in St. Louis.
Aliza Bran’s passion and excitement for the world of SPY is contagious. Around the office of the International Spy Museum, Aliza is known for her cheerful demeanor, quick wit, and intensely creative mind. She’s been working at SPY for six years now, four of those years as our Media Relations Manager.
How does Aliza navigate the ever-changing media landscape and represent the International Spy Museum on this worldwide stage? What are Aliza’s favorite memories, artifacts, and exhibits from SPY? What makes her love this work so much, and what skills do you need to build a career in media relations? Tune in to find out.
And…
Aliza has been particularly busy these past few weeks covering the news surrounding the Chinese Spy Balloon. For a taste of Aliza’s work, find articles and video on the subject that she orchestrated here, here, here, and here.
“Part of it for me is knowing that we live in a very polarized world right now and I want to have a sense of our full audience, which is everyone. So I'm going to look at stories, places that aren't natural fits for where I tend to go. Because if people go there to read the news, I want to know what they're reading, I want to know what interests them. I want to know what people are excited about, worried about, looking at.” – Aliza Bran.
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Alan Kohler joins Andrew to discuss the FBI’s counterintelligence division. He is a recipient of the FBI Director’s Award for Outstanding Counterintelligence Investigation.
Alan Kohler (LinkedIn, Website) has been the FBI Assistant Director for Counterintelligence since 2020. Alan and Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) talk all things counterintelligence.
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Mike Susong joins Andrew to discuss the impact and potential of AI on the intelligence field. Mike is a former CIA case officer who now oversees global intelligence for a risk management company.
Mike Susong (Website, LinkedIn) is an expert in the growing field of artificial intelligence. He joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss.
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Alexander Rose (Website; Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss a gripping spy-vs-spy true story from the U.S. Civil War. He wrote the book that was the inspiration behind the hit TV-series TURN.
Liverpool. The city of the Beatles. The home of Liverpool F.C., winner of six European Cups. Did you know that there – thousands of miles away from the bloody battlefields of Fredericksburg, Shiloh, and Gettysburg – the U.S. Civil War played out?
In fact, it was a key part of the strategies of both the North and the South since at that time it produced more ships than every other dockyard in the world combined. The North wanted to choke off the South, with the help of spies; but the South wanted to build a navy, with the help of spies. Who would prevail? This is the story of spy-vs-spy, North vs South, and Thomas Dudley vs James Bulloch.
And…
If this spy story makes you hungry for more, check out Alex’s historical espionage newsletter, Spionage.
“If Dudley hadn't stopped Bulloch, or if Dudley hadn't existed and Bulloch created this massive fleet of blockade runners and had built more commerce raiders … You would've had a many more sinkings of American merchant vessels. You would've had larger inflows of arms and weapons into the South. The biggest change of all would've been that having the sea lanes open like that would've allowed the South to fight on much longer than it actually did.”
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Jim Popkin (Twitter, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss America’s most damaging female spy, Ana Montes. Jim is a four-time recipient of the national Emmy Award for outstanding journalism.
And much, much more …
She’s “the most famous spy no one’s ever heard of” – Why? Clouded by the tragedy of 9/11, Ana Montes was arrested on suspicion of espionage on September 21, 2001, as the Twin Towers smoldered. She had been spying for Cuba for almost two decades, sending secrets from the heart of American intelligence to Fidel Castro’s regime.
This week, author and investigative journalist Jim Popkin joins Andrew to discuss Ana Montes’ story framed by his new book, Code Name Blue Wren: The True Story of America's Most Dangerous Female Spy—and the Sister She Betrayed. Jim debriefs us on how Ana was recruited, how she gathered and sent secrets, and how she ultimately the net closed in on her.
And…
The timing couldn’t be better to discuss Ana Montes’ story. Ana was released from prison two weeks ago on January 6th after serving 21 of her 25-year prison sentence. Why has Ana been released while fellow spies who caused tremendous damage, Robert Hanssen and Aldrich Ames, remain incarcerated? Tune into this week’s episode to find out!
“There's a haunting message that the FBI found on her laptop from the Cubans that said, ‘Thank you so much for revealing [Redacted.] We are waiting for him here with open arms.’ So, she revealed the real name of someone who was headed to Cuba, the Cubans were aware of it, and, and they were, ‘waiting for him with open arms.’” – Jim Popkin.
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John Hamilton (LinkedIn, Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss Woodrow Wilson and the birth of American propaganda during WWI. He is a Professor of Journalism at Louisiana State University.
When the Committee on Public Information was created in April of 1917, the United States was but one week into the first World War. In fact, the Selective Service Act would not come about for another month after the organization of the CPI. Why was Woodrow Wilson so quick to establish a system of control over public opinion, and how successful was this endeavor?
To answer these questions and more, author John Hamilton joins Andrew in a conversation about how propaganda and manipulation were used as a covert tactic during WWI and beyond. As John notes, “everything that’s done today can be traced to the CPI.”
And…
While the CPI formally existed for only a year, its impact and imagery has endured for over 100 years. For proof, look no further than the story of the iconic “I Want You!” poster of Uncle Sam.
“You may not like the enemy, but the enemy and you are doing the same thing to manipulate people’s attitudes. And while you may think you have a just cause, your means are quite often the same – Right down to lying, and manipulation and coercion.” – John Hamilton.
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Thomas Leahy (Website; LinkedIn) and Eleanor Williams (Website; Twitter) join Andrew to discuss the intelligence war during “the Troubles.” Thomas lives in Cardiff and Eleanor lives in Belfast.
From the late 60’s to the late 90’s Republican and Loyalist paramilitaries, and the British and Irish states, were engaged in a period known as “the Troubles”: a struggle to define or redefine the future of the island of Ireland. This is an issue with deep and complex roots, but the intelligence dimension of the period known as the Troubles is fascinating and often overlooked.
To help us get our head around it all, Andrew sat down with two specialists to discuss all things intelligence and the Troubles: from the role that MI5 and MI6 played, to the Force Research Unit and the RUC Special Branch, through to how the IRA played the counterintelligence game and the role that informers, agents and moles, such as the notorious “Stakeknife,” played.
Thomas is the author of the Intelligence War Against the IRA, while Eleanor is a doctoral candidate comparing intelligence use during the Northern Irish and Colombian conflicts.
And…
The head of the Republic of Ireland’s police and security intelligence force, the Garda Síochána, is Drew Harris. Drew Harris was a career Royal Ulster Constabulary officer whose father, also a career RUC officer, was killed by the IRA in 1989. He was the first external appointee from outside the Garda.
"What's their [IRA] main role in this intelligence conflict?...one of the key points here…the IRA was quite highly regional regionalized. That's actually quite key to explain why British intelligence had some difficulties against them…Initially, it was set up similar to armed forces. It would have brigades, battalions and companies…the IRA operated this kind of army structure up to 1975…the IRA then switched to this new strategy…And part of this was to prevent mass infiltration, which had started to become a problem, particularly in Belfast pre-1975. So, what it adopted in Belfast and Derry was a cell structure." – Thomas Leahy
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Enrique “Ric” Prado (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his new memoir “Black Ops.” One of the most renowned CIA officers of his generation tells his story.
Book
You can buy Ric’s book, Black Ops, and support the International Spy Museum’s mission here.
Intelligence
Reflections
And much, much more…
Ric Prado spent twenty-four-years in the CIA – and what a twenty-four years it was. His first 36 months were in the jungles of Central America as the first CIA officer to live among the “Contras,” including a period with the Miskito Native people; indeed, the photos he took ending up on the desk of CIA Director Bill Casey. So, what was it like at the pointy end of the Reagan Doctrine’s anti-communist spear, or as CIA Counterterrorist Center Chief of Ops during 9/11?
To find out, and to hear more about Ric’s storied career, Andrew sat down with him for this week’s episode. One of the meanings of the noun “legend” is “a story coming down from the past.” Many people who were in the business at the CIA and elsewhere will have heard the stories that come down from the past re Enrique “Ric” Prado, but now we all have a chance to hear Ric set the record straight in his own words.
And…
If Ric’s communist uncle hadn’t alerted the family that his school intended to send him off to the Soviet Union as a promising student for further education…if he hadn’t taken an Oceanography class at Miami Dade College and met someone who led him to USAF Pararescue…if he hadn’t been tipped off that he was to be killed in a Contra camp during the night and extricated himself from the situation…as Bob Dylan said, summing up so much of the human condition, “one more time, for a simple twist of fate.”
"The wiring was there and the mentoring from my dad…then the trip to the orphanage. And then definitely when I got into pararescue…being one of our special operations forces, the training is very, very intense…And making it through SERE school, making it through mountain climbing school. There's a certain level of conquering your emotions that you have to do…But I think that the most important thing was that I believed in what I was doing." – Ric Prado
SpyCast Episodes
Books
Articles
Documentaries
Primary Sources
Wildcard Resource
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Loch Johnson (Website, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss covert action aka “The Third Option.” He is the author of over 30 books on intelligence.
There is perhaps no better guest to join Andrew in this week’s exploration of covert action than Professor Emeritus at the University of Georgia Loch Johnson. Loch’s latest book, The Third Option: Covert Action and American Foreign Policy, examines the history of the complicated and sometimes controversial usage of covert action by the U.S. international affairs.
Loch’s decades-long career in foreign policy and intelligence has brought him to the forefront of some of the most seminal moments within US intelligence reform: he served as special assistant to the chair of the Church Committee, staff director of the House Subcommittee on Intelligence Oversight, and worked directly with the chair of the Aspin-Brown Commission.
In this two-part episode of SpyCast, Andrew and Loch unpack what makes a covert action operation successful, and how we can learn from intelligence failures and past mistakes.
And…
How many people have a society named after them? Loch does!
"History doesn't like to be shaped, it has a power all of its own, but we try to shape it at least at the margins, and we do that through covert action, sometimes called the third option…and it really comes in four packages. Package number one is propaganda… And then comes political covert actions…Thirdly is economic covert action…And then fourthly, and most dramatically, are paramilitary operations. These are war-like activities." – Loch Johnson.
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Loch Johnson (Website, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss covert action aka “The Third Option.” He is the author of over 30 books on intelligence.
There is perhaps no better guest to join Andrew in this week’s exploration of covert action than Professor Emeritus at the University of Georgia Loch Johnson. Loch’s latest book, The Third Option: Covert Action and American Foreign Policy, examines the history of the complicated and sometimes controversial usage of covert action by the U.S. international affairs.
Loch’s decades-long career in foreign policy and intelligence has brought him to the forefront of some of the most seminal moments within US intelligence reform: he served as special assistant to the chair of the Church Committee, staff director of the House Subcommittee on Intelligence Oversight, and worked directly with the chair of the Aspin-Brown Commission.
In this two-part episode of SpyCast, Andrew and Loch unpack what makes a covert action operation successful, and how we can learn from intelligence failures and past mistakes.
And…
How many people have a society named after them? Loch does!
"History doesn't like to be shaped, it has a power all of its own, but we try to shape it at least at the margins, and we do that through covert action, sometimes called the third option…and it really comes in four packages. Package number one is propaganda… And then comes political covert actions…Thirdly is economic covert action…And then fourthly, and most dramatically, are paramilitary operations. These are war-like activities." – Loch Johnson.
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John Mullen (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his life and career. He was awarded the Distinguished Intelligence Medal.
The Pacific Theater of WWII was imprinted on John Mullen as a young boy. He grew up in Seattle on the West Coast and had family members who remembered Boeing factories under camouflaged nets. He had two family members who were killed in that theater in the 1940s.
John went on to have a stellar CIA career - but one that always had an eye to the East. He went on the become the Assistant Director for Asia and the Pacific, leading all clandestine activity across this huge region, and spent time as a CIA Station Chief in the Far East. He has since co-founded his own firm and is currently engaged in protecting innovation at Strider Technologies as an Executive Vice President.
Ever wondered what it’d be like to join the CIA or to leave it to work in corporate America?
I have a feeling John might be able to help…
And…
Business intelligence, competitive intelligence, product intelligence, workforce intelligence: in case you haven’t noticed – intel is everywhere these days!
Honestly, in my 30 years, at CIA, there were probably less than two handfuls of days. I woke up and wasn't excited about going to work. – John Mullen.
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Henry Schlesinger (Rare Bird Books) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss two of the most mysterious and alluring forces in human history: sex and spying. He is a journalist and author proudly based out of NYC.
What You’ll Learn
Sex. Espionage. Sometimes they both overlap by accident...but sometimes it's entirely intentional. From Samson and Delilah in the Bible to the Profumo Affair that rocked British society in the 1960’s, they are a heady and dramatic combination.
But how is sex used in modern espionage? How do the professionals combine them, if indeed they do? What myths surround the use of both? How have men and women used sex and seduction to spy?
To answer these questions and more, Andrew sat down with Henry Schlesinger to discuss his newest book, Honey Trapped: Sex, Betrayal, and Weaponized Love, which explores the fascinating relationship between sex and spying.
And…
You know about Benjamin Franklin in Paris as a “bon vivant, wily diplomat and aging lion,” but read Henry’s article about him as the “Founding Forger” engaged in disinformation and fake news during the Revolution!
“The thing about espionage is that it encompasses the best in human beings and the worst and everything in between.” – Henry Schlesinger.
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Bryan Vorndran (Website, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss how the FBI has adapted to the digital age. As Bryan says, “We are not your grandparents FBI.”
When Bryan Vorndran attended the FBI Academy in 2003, cyber was not on his personal radar, nor was it on Quantico’s vigorous training schedule. Now, almost 20 years later, Bryan serves as the Assistant Director of the FBI’s Cyber Division.
What changed in those 20 years to bring Bryan to the forefront of the cyber battlefield, and how have the tactics and strategies used in this used in this field evolved alongside the ever-changing face of cyber?
Tune into this week’s SpyCast episode to find out!
The FBI has historically been associated with law enforcement and criminal justice. How does cyber fit into this world, and what is the FBI’s strategy for defending the country against cyber adversaries?
And…
Check out the FBI Cyber's Most Wanted list. A look through the details on each of these wanted posters can give you a better idea of the vast array of cyber-crimes committed around the world.
“We will not arrest our way out of the ransomware problem. We are not going to arrest our way out of the Russia China Nation state cyber vector problem. Right? It's just not going to happen. But again, national tool power is something we will always do, but there has to be a way to degrade the ecosystem to make their life more challenging.” – Bryan Vordran.
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Brian Vorndran (Website, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss how the FBI has adapted to the digital age. As Brian says, “We are not your grandparents FBI.”
When Brian Vorndran attended the FBI Academy in 2003, cyber was not on his personal radar, nor was it on Quantico’s vigorous training schedule. Now, almost 20 years later, Brian serves as the Assistant Director of the FBI’s Cyber Division.
What changed in those 20 years to bring Brian to the forefront of the cyber battlefield, and how have the tactics and strategies used in this used in this field evolved alongside the ever-changing face of cyber?
Tune into this week’s SpyCast episode to find out!
The FBI has historically been associated with law enforcement and criminal justice. How does cyber fit into this world, and what is the FBI’s strategy for defending the country against cyber adversaries?
And…
Check out the FBI Cyber's Most Wanted list. A look through the details on each of these wanted posters can give you a better idea of the vast array of cyber-crimes committed around the world.
“We will not arrest our way out of the ransomware problem. We are not going to arrest our way out of the Russia China Nation state cyber vector problem. Right? It's just not going to happen. But again, national tool power is something we will always do, but there has to be a way to degrade the ecosystem to make their life more challenging.” – Bryan Vordran.
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Aynne Kokas (LinkedIn; Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss her book "Trafficking Data: How China is Winning the Battle for Digital Sovereignty."
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Bob Sutton (LinkedIn; Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the mysterious intelligence site P.O. Box 1142. High-value Nazis were interrogated here during WWII.
This week’s guest is the former Chief Historian of the National Park Service, Bob Sutton, and what a wonderful conversation we had.
His book, Nazis on the Potomac: The Top-Secret Intelligence Operation that Helped Win WWII, tells the story of military intelligence facility P.O. Box 1142 – present day Fort Hunt, around 15 miles south of Washington DC.It was here, between 1942-1945, that around three and a half thousand high level German prisoners were interrogated, captured documents analyzed, and ways to help Americans escape and evade Nazis in occupied Europe studied.
This story is particularly incredible, because many of the interrogators were German born Jews.
This story was almost lost to history, but thankfully because of the NPS and Bob Sutton, it never will be.
[Conflict of interest disclosure, Andrew has an “America the Beautiful” Annual Pass].
And…
John W. Kluge arrived in the United States from Germany not speaking a word of English in 1922. He was 8 years old. He would go on to be the head of the Military Intelligence Research Section (MIRS) at P.O. Box 1142. After the war, he would go on to become the richest man in the United States. He was so appreciative of America, that he provided funds to Columbia University and The Library Congress to provide opportunities to future students and scholars. Andrew is a former John W. Kluge Fellow at the Library of Congress and therefore a direct recipient of his philanthropy for which he is grateful.
"Doing what we did at Fort Hunt is actually fairly unusual, where we didn't know the story. We were able to locate people, we were able to get money, we could actually interview everybody that we found…That's relatively unusual." – Bob Sutton
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Ryan Zimmerman (MLB Stats; Wikipedia) and Marc Polymeropoulos (Twitter; LinkedIn) join Andrew to discuss intelligence and America’s pastime. From the SpyCast Field of Dreams.
Buy me some peanuts and crackerjack. Few things in the world compare to sitting back, putting your feet up, and cracking open a cold one while watching the World Series.
For the 2021 World Series Marc joined us for a fantastic discussion on the links between baseball and espionage. How do we top that? A baseball fanatic ex-CIA officer?
Why, how about getting a first-round draft pick, World Series Champion with over 6500 at-bats? Done! Enter Ryan Zimmerman, Mr. National!
Ever wondered about signs-stealing, how to run a baseball counterintelligence operation, or what some of the many, many links are between baseball and espionage? You’ve come to the right place for a discussion that goes to the bottom of the ninth inning over a two-episode conversation.
Ryan played for the Nationals from 2005, when he was a first-round draft pick, through to 2021, when his #11 jersey was retired. He is an ex- All-Star, Silver Slugger, Gold Glove winner, and 2019 World Series Champion.
Marc is a highly decorated former CIA operations officer who specialized in counterterrorism, the Middle East, and South Asia. Prior to his retirement, he served at CIA headquarters in charge of clandestine operations in Europe and Eurasia. He is the author of the 2021 book, “Clarity in Crisis: Leadership Lessons from the CIA.”
And…
“Big Data” is upending many fields, not least baseball and espionage. Gaining a competitive edge is central to both activities, the big argument is about how much “soul” is lost along the way. The Houston Astros have been a lighting-rod team, whose “smart and modern” or “cold and cynical” approach has been discussed at Penn's Wharton School of Business and in the pages of the Harvard Business Review.
"I think “Dare to Fail” is enormous. I would want you to put me up at the bases load in the bottom of the ninth. I'll take it every single time. Even if I feel like I have zero chance, I want to be there." - Ryan Zimmerman
"You know, you have to have that mentality in these professions." - Marc Polymeropoulos
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Ryan Zimmerman (MLB Stats; Wikipedia) and Marc Polymeropoulos (Twitter; LinkedIn) join Andrew to discuss intelligence and America’s pastime. From the SpyCast Field of Dreams.
Buy me some peanuts and crackerjack. Few things in the world compare to sitting back, putting your feet up, and cracking open a cold one while watching the World Series.
For the 2021 World Series Marc joined us for a fantastic discussion on the links between baseball and espionage. How do we top that? A baseball fanatic ex-CIA officer?
Why, how about getting a first-round draft pick, World Series Champion with over 6500 at-bats? Done! Enter Ryan Zimmerman, Mr. National!
Ever wondered about signs-stealing, how to run a baseball counterintelligence operation, or what some of the many, many links are between baseball and espionage? You’ve come to the right place for a discussion that goes to the bottom of the ninth inning over a two-episode conversation.
Ryan played for the Nationals from 2005, when he was a first-round draft pick, through to 2021, when his #11 jersey was retired. He is an ex- All-Star, Silver Slugger, Gold Glove winner, and 2019 World Series Champion.
Marc is a highly decorated former CIA operations officer who specialized in counterterrorism, the Middle East, and South Asia. Prior to his retirement, he served at CIA headquarters in charge of clandestine operations in Europe and Eurasia. He is the author of the 2021 book, “Clarity in Crisis: Leadership Lessons from the CIA.”
And…
“Big Data” is upending many fields, not least baseball and espionage. Gaining a competitive edge is central to both activities, the big argument is about how much “soul” is lost along the way. The Houston Astros have been a lighting-rod team, whose “smart and modern” or “cold and cynical” approach has been discussed at Penn's Wharton School of Business and in the pages of the Harvard Business Review.
"I think “Dare to Fail” is enormous. I would want you to put me up at the bases load in the bottom of the ninth. I'll take it every single time. Even if I feel like I have zero chance, I want to be there." - Ryan Zimmerman
"You know, you have to have that mentality in these professions." - Marc Polymeropoulos
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Andrew Hammond shares an encore episode From the Vault. From counternarcotics to counterterrorism, from Latin America to the Middle East, and from the back streets of a warzone to the center of events in Washington DC – Karen Schaefer has had, how should we say, an “eventful” career as an intelligence officer. Charming, smart, thoughtful, and you haven’t even met Karen yet…but seriously, it was a pleasure to talk to this week’s guest who had all of those qualities, and more; so enjoyable it will be released as a double-header. This week, Part I focuses on her time as an operator; while Part II focuses on her time as a “serial collaborator” who worked with Special Operations, the FBI, and the NSC. Stay tuned…
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Eric Escobar (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss compromising networks and information security. He has a coveted DEFCON Black Badge.
Eric Escobar commits several thousand felonies on any given day, if he didn’t have permission to do what he was doing.
A Principal Security Consultant with SecureWorks, Eric has compromised pretty much everything out there: from healthcare and banking to technology and critical infrastructure, through to amusement parks and next generation military aircraft.
“From my perspective, it’s the coolest job in the entire world.”
His team consecutively won first place in the Wireless CTF category at DEF CON 23, 24, and 25, snagging a Black Badge along the way. He has a BS and MS in Civil Engineering.
And…
The links between computing, hacking and the 60’s counterculture are FASCINATING. Learn more by dipping your toes here and here, or dive deeper with What the Dormouse Said (2005) by John Markoff and From Counterculture to Cyberculture (2006) by Fred Turner.
"Watching any critical infrastructure get compromised is really the thing that keeps me up at night because lives are in the balance…and we do a lot of testing for critical infrastructure, and I've seen computers and machines that have been online and not been taken offline, longer than I've been alive…So really interesting to see those types of things because they interact with really big, expensive hardware…there's a catch 22 that happens where you can't really take the machine offline to do maintenance on it because it's critical infrastructure. So then how do you test it to make sure that a hacker can't take it offline, or maintenance can't be done on it? " – Eric Escobar.
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Eric Escobar (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss compromising networks and information security. He has a coveted DEFCON Black Badge.
Eric Escobar commits several thousand felonies on any given day, if he didn’t have permission to do what he was doing.
A Principal Security Consultant with SecureWorks, Eric has compromised pretty much everything out there: from healthcare and banking to technology and critical infrastructure, through to amusement parks and next generation military aircraft.
“From my perspective, it’s the coolest job in the entire world.”
His team consecutively won first place in the Wireless CTF category at DEF CON 23, 24, and 25, snagging a Black Badge along the way. He has a BS and MS in Civil Engineering.
And…
The links between computing, hacking and the 60’s counterculture are FASCINATING. Learn more by dipping your toes here and here, or dive deeper with What the Dormouse Said (2005) by John Markoff and From Counterculture to Cyberculture (2006) by Fred Turner.
"Watching any critical infrastructure get compromised is really the thing that keeps me up at night because lives are in the balance…and we do a lot of testing for critical infrastructure, and I've seen computers and machines that have been online and not been taken offline, longer than I've been alive…So really interesting to see those types of things because they interact with really big, expensive hardware…there's a catch 22 that happens where you can't really take the machine offline to do maintenance on it because it's critical infrastructure. So then how do you test it to make sure that a hacker can't take it offline, or maintenance can't be done on it? " – Eric Escobar.
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Rhodri Jeffreys-Jones (Website; Wikipedia) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his book. He has studied American intelligence for 50 years.
This week’s guest, Rhodri Jeffreys-Jones, is Emeritus Professor of American History at the University of Edinburgh. He has been studying American intelligence for half a century and has written a history of the CIA to coincide with its 75th anniversary, entitled: A Question of Standing.
This episode with Rhodri is a counterpoint to last week’s episode with Robert Gates: a career historian and a career intelligence officer; a European and an American; a 70,000 feet view and a 30,000 feet one. Interestingly, they were born continents apart within almost a year of each other.
Rhodri is the author of over a dozen books, has a Ph.D. from Cambridge University, and grew up in Harlech, Wales.
And…
Harlech, Wales, where Rhodri grew up, has the steepest street in the Northern Hemisphere. The steepest street in the Southern Hemisphere, and the world according to Guinness Records, is in Dunedin, New Zealand (Dunedin is Gaelic for Edinburgh). The steepest street in the continental United States is Canton Avenue in Pittsburgh (to celebrate its Welsh heritage the Steel City has a St. David’s Society). Espionage in Welsh is ysbïo.
"CIA can't afford to rest on its laurels and continue with systems it has. It has to change all the time." – Rhodri Jeffreys-Jones
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Robert Gates (Website; Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to reflect on the 75th Anniversary of the CIA. He served 8 U.S. presidents.
Robert M. Gates is the first career officer in the CIA’s history to rise from entry level employee to Director. He spent 27 years at CIA, nine of those at the NSC. More recently, he was the first Secretary of Defense to be asked to remain in office by a newly elected president. In all, he served 8 presidents.
Wouldn’t you love to know his take on the CIA at 75? Well, we’ve made that happen for you!
He was born in Wichita, Kansas, served in the U.S.A.F. and he received his undergraduate education at William & Mary, his masters from Indiana University, and his doctorate from Georgetown University. He was formerly the President of Texas A&M University and the current Chancellor of William & Mary.
And…
The academic institutions Dr. Gates has been associated with all have quite different capacities of football stadium: Georgetown University’s Cooper Field can hold 3,750; William & Mary’s Zable Stadium can hold 12,259; Indiana University’s Memorial Stadium can hold 52,626; and Texas A&M’s Kyle Stadium can hold a whopping 102,733. What could we infer about Dr. Gates, college sports, or the United States from this information? Well, that would be thinking like an intelligence analyst.
"I've led four very big, very different institutions and like all of them I always saw where places where CIA could be better. But I always loved the place, and I always was proud to work there and proud of the people that I knew…they were probably the smartest, most honest people I've ever met and worked with." – Robert Gates.
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Alex Finley (Twitter; Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss life as a CIA Reports Officer turned author. She lives in Barcelona.
Alex Finley spent 6 years in the CIA as a Reports Officer - whom she describes as a bridge between the case officers and analysts. She is author of a trilogy of novels on the exploits of fictional CIA officer Victor Caro. Her most recent book, Victor in Trouble, completes the series (…or does it?) by looking at Russian influence operations and the contemporary intelligence landscape through a satirical lens.
She now lives in Barcelona, Spain - and yes, apparently it’s as awesome as it sounds! – and she is the voice behind #YachtWatch, which tracks and exposes the activities of Russian oligarchs and their superyachts.
And…
Satire is often described as fitting into three categories: Horatian, which offers light comedy and social commentary (e.g., Pride & Prejudice, Parks & Rec, The Colbert Report); Juvenalian, a darker and more abrasive take that can often take the form of speaking truth to power (e.g., Animal Farm, American Psycho, South Park) and Menippean, which casts moral judgement on beliefs or generic character flaws (e.g., Alice in Wonderland, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, Saturday Night Live). Which one does Alex use?
"There, there were points where I found myself in the middle of nowhere, West Africa. And there are these moments where…how did I end up here? This makes zero sense. And then there were the bureaucratic Catch-22s." – Alex Finley.
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Dexter Ingram (LinkedIn; Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his varied career. He has a very cool private collection of spy gadgets.
Dexter Ingram is the Acting Director at the Office of the Special Envoy for the Global Coalition to Defeat ISIS and in his spare time a passionate collector of intelligence artifacts and gadgets.
He has performed a variety of roles at the Department of State – he was on a Provincial Reconstruction Team in Afghanistan, he was a Counterterrorism Coordinator at Interpol in Lyon, France, and has a deep interest in counterterrorism, counterproliferation and WMD. He was formerly a Naval Flight Officer and White House Intern with the US Navy and has studied at Hampton University, University of Oklahoma, and the National Defense University.
In part of our ongoing effort to look at consumers of intelligence as well as producers - i.e., who eats the sausages as well as who makes them - we touch on the various parts of Dexter’s career that intersect with intelligence.
And…
Hampton University, where Dexter studied for his undergrad, is one of over 100 Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCU’s) in the United States. It sits near the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay (incidentally on the same peninsula as “The Farm,” a covert training facility for CIA operations officers). Many leaders of the black community have attended HBCU’s, such as Booker T. Washington (Hampton), W.E.B. Du Bois (Fisk), Martin Luther King (Morehouse), Jesse Jackson (North Carolina A&T), and Kamala Harris (Howard).
"It's about real people. These are real gadgets better than the movies. It gets my blood pumping." – Dexter Ingram on collecting artifacts.
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James Brundage (LinkedIn; Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss prisoners-of-war and intelligence. He is the Curator at the Pritzker Military Museum & Library in Chicago.
What intelligence questions are generated when we discuss “prisoners of war”? The prisoner’s side asks: what happened? Are they alive? If so, where? What did they know? Can they compromise operations? Can we get them out? The other side asks: what do they know? Can they tell us anything we don’t know? Are they misleading us? The prisoner asks: where are we? Are there any friendlies? Can we share information to escape?
To answer these questions, this week’s guest is James Brundage who curated the May 22-Apr 23 exhibit, “Life Behind the Wire: POW” which explores life in captivity. He is a public historian who has also worked at the Obama Presidential Library, the Chicago History Museum & the James Garfield Historic Site.
And…
Jeremiah Denton Jr. was shot down while leading an attack over North Vietnam in 1965 and the title of his memoir, When Hell Was in Session, gives you an idea of what he endured during his captivity. As part of a propaganda campaign, the North Vietnamese arranged for him to be interviewed by a Japanese reporter. Hi blinked T-O-R-T-U-R-E in Morse code. Needless to say, the intelligence community took great interest in the video footage. He passed away in 2014.
"So roughly 1% of the POW population perished in Europe at the hands of the Germans versus in Japan…the death rate was almost 40%. A lot of that was the conditions of the camp…in Vietnam, of the more than 700 American POWs, there were 73 who perished in POW camps in North Vietnam, which is roughly 10%." – James Brundage
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Summary
Seth Abramovitch (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the British war-hero who spied on behalf of the Japanese during Hollywood’s Golden Age. This is a story-and-a-half, by jingo!
Sqn. Ldr. Frederick Rutland, AM, DSC and Bar, was the first person to fly a seaplane from a ship in history. He was also the first man to spot the German fleet from his seaplane, thereby precipitating the largest naval battle of the First World War, the Battle of Jutland.
After leaving the military because of indiscretions with a fellow officer’s wife, he tries to live an ordinary vanilla life, but still craves his action-packed days of old…ultimately, he is approached by the Japanese to spy on their behalf, which leads him to relocate to LA during the Golden Age of Hollywood.
To discuss this doozy of a story, I am joined by Seth Abramovitch from The Hollywood Reporter – i.e., the definitive interpretive voice of the entertainment industry – where he has worked for ten years.
And…
There are some incredible Hollywood movies from the interwar period, capturing some of the tension and suspicion of the era, as well as the faint drumbeat of approaching war. Hitchcock alone had, The Man Who Knew Too Much (1934), The 39 Steps (1935), Sabotage (1936), and Foreign Correspondent (1940). Major stars of the era such as Marlene Dietrich, Great Garbo, and Madelaine Carroll helped solidify the spy genre with movies such as Dishonored (1931), Mata Hari (1931), and I Was a Spy (1933). Don’t forget Fritz Lang’s Spione (1928), which has been called a, “marvel of narrative economy in montage.”
"At the very bottom of the list, it would be any kind of allegiance to any flag, because he's quick to offer to turn on Japan when push comes to shove at the very end of the whole story. I don't think he was doing it for any kind of nationalism or political, viewpoint. I think if anything he was apolitical." – Seth Abramovitch.
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Bill Parquette (LinkedIn; Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss Denial and Deception. They discuss examples such as D-Day, the Yom Kippur War, and the Persian Gulf War.
Sun Tzu said, “all warfare is based on deception” and so much of the natural world is also based on denial and deception: camouflage, feigning, mimicry, distraction. It is also a feature of our daily 21st century lives: spyware, trojan horses, catfishing, and spear phishing.
With this week’s guest we look at the Denial and Deception Committee, which aimed to discover and mitigate foreign denial and deception operations against the U.S. by coordinating efforts throughout the IC.
Bill Parquette was a former Chair of the Committee. He joined the Committee in 2002 and left in 2015. He was formerly a Lt. Col. In the U.S. Army, starting his career with 10 years in the 82nd Airborne, and is currently Professor of Practice at Penn State University.
And…
The episode looks at deceiving others but the human capacity for self-deception and denial is VAST – from head in the sand, plugging your ears, living in denial, willful ignorance, and cognitive dissonance through to doublethink.
"If I have an audience of one or 100, I ask does anyone have children? And the hands get raised. And then I said, okay, did you teach your child deception or denial? And of course not. Do they conduct denial or deception? And they all said yeah, it's throughout nature, it's throughout society…it's a natural thing to deny. I didn't mom I didn't take that cookie." – Bill Parquette
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David McCloskey (Twitter; Website) and James Stejskal (Twitter; LinkedIn) join Andrew to discuss writing about espionage. They are both former intelligence officers.
Hear two intelligence formers discuss life as current novelists.
Where does fact end, and fiction begin when you are a former CIA officer writing fiction? What parts of your own story bleed into the novel? Are the characters composites of people you knew in your line of work or are they entirely fictional?
To answer these questions and more, this week, I sat down with David McCloskey, former CIA analyst and author of Damascus Station, a book David Petraeus described as “the best spy novel I have ever read,” and James Stejskal, author of Appointment in Tehran, which has been called “a textbook clandestine operation involving…US Army Special Forces and a clandestine CIA Case Officer,” which James would know something about, since he was both.
And…
Spy fiction received quite the blow in the space of a 6-month period (Dec 2020-May 2021) which saw the passing of both John Le Carre and Jason Matthews, two formers who served in British and American intelligence. Le Carre was in MI5 and MI6 while Matthews had a long career in the CIA. David and James join a distinguished cast of formers who became novelists, including Ian Fleming, Graham Greene and Dame Stella Rimington.
"There are far more edits on, short articles I wrote that weren't even going to the president than on the book, so your writing is being critiqued at all levels. I I think when I did write for the PDB [Presidential Daily Brief], I don't think I'm making this up, I believe it was 9 or 10 layers of review. You could probably argue that sometimes that makes it worse, but you have to be able at all stages to roll with the punches and to write and to try to make things very clear." – David McCloskey.
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Janosh Neumann (LinkedIn; Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss life in the FSB. He was born in the Soviet Union to parents in the “business.”
Have you ever wondered how a Russian intelligence officer is trained? Ever wondered what it would be like to be a defector? Ever wondered what it’d be like to be given three choices, shoot yourself, get shot, or go on the run?
If so, you’ll enjoy this week’s episode with Jan Neumann, who was born Alexy Yurievich Artamonov in the former Soviet Union.
Jan’s father was a KGB internal affairs officer, and he would go on to join one of its successors, the FSB, or Federal Security Service, in which his wife also served. He speaks about a number of projects he is involved in, here in the States, where he now resides.
And…
Jan is the Co-Founder of RealSpyComics, which will be the first independent comic publisher dedicated to telling true intelligence stories. The International Spy Museum is a partner on this venture, because if there is one thing, we have a lot of – its spy stories!
"I'm not a big fan of ballet, but one of my sources was a big ballet fan. So, I had to go to the Bolshoi Theater, watch this again, and again, and again, I had to do some learning to be able to talk to the guy. And same thing was happening with the art as well. so going to some galleries and talk to the people, be sure that they're using at least same terminology as they are, to be able in the future to support the conversation, be interesting to this person whom you're trying to approach." – Janosh Neumann
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Chris Costa (LinkedIn; Website) and John Quattrocki (LinkedIn; Website) join Andrew to discuss coming in from the Cold War. They both had long illustrious careers in intelligence.
The Windy City Episode.
The Pritzker Military Museum and Library (PMML) in Chicago is well worth a visit. Located on Michigan Avenue overlooking Grant Park and Lake Michigan – there’s three additional attractions right there – you will not be disappointed. SPY teamed up with PMML to put on what would become this week’s episode.
To discuss coming in from the Cold War intelligence landscape, Executive Director of SPY Chris Costa and AFIO board member John Quattrocki sat down for a panel discussion with Andrew.
Chris, a former intelligence officer of 34 years with 25 of those in active duty in hot spots such as Panama, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Iraq, is also a past Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Counterterrorism on the NSC. John retired from the Senior Executive Service (SES - 4) as a Special Agent of the FBI with 19 years of operational experience against the Soviet Union/Russia, the Warsaw Pact, East Asia, Islamic extremist groups, and domestic terrorism. He also served on the NSC as the Director of Counterintelligence Programs.
And…
Pritzker Military Museum & Library’s mission is to “increase the public’s understanding of military history.” The International Spy Museum’s mission is to “educate the public about espionage and intelligence.” As you can see, then, in the military-intelligence-espionage national security continuum, we are pretty much as good a partnership as it gets.
"The government has seen the counterintelligence (CI) resources as a kind of a human capital escrow account to draw on for other elements to the government. And in, so doing, we have started to lend our CI bodies to the private sector. So, we are providing indirect cost support to the private sector for their CI responsibilities, rather than causing them to acquit all their own CI responsibilities." – John Quattrocki
"I was not entirely satisfied with the idea of being between wars, because we were trained as infantry men. Our job was to prepare to go to war. And then I said, you know what? I wanna fight against our adversaries on a different plane, multilevel chess, if you will. And that's what brought me into the intelligence business." – Chris Costa
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Alexis Albion (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss Kim Philby using some of his personal belongings as prompts. This episode on the Soviet mole inside MI6 coincides with SPY’s 20th Anniversary.
The Cambridge Five are some of the most notable and notorious traitors in British history, and among them one man stands out in a way that has led some to call him, “The Spy of the Century,” MI6 officer Kim Philby. How did a quintessential Englishman who came from the “right” stock and went to the “right” schools become a Soviet mole? How did a genial chum come to haunt the corridors of British and American intelligence like a ghastly apparition?
Dr. Alexis Albion is this week’s guest and the Curator of Special Projects at the International Spy Museum. She was formerly on the 9/11 Commission Report, the World Bank and the U.S. Department of State.
In this is a first of a kind podcast, Alexis and Andrew sat down with some of Philby’s personal belongings drawn from our world-leading collection of artifacts on espionage and intelligence.
And…
Harold Adrian Russell Philby acquired the nickname “Kim” from the main character in Rudyard Kipling’s novel Kim, an orphan-boy-cum-spy in British India. Kim and Philby also have the Punjab in common, the novel begins in Lahore and Philby was born in Ambala, although the historic region was partitioned between Pakistan and India in 1947. The drive between Lahore and Ambala is roughly similar to that between Los Angeles and San Francisco.
"So why is he The Spy of the Century? Maybe the fact that he's not identified with any particular event or set of information [e.g., unlike Julius Rosenberg], but he's identified with this idea of betraying his Englishness is perhaps why he's been such a lasting figure because he almost is a touchpoint for the history of the 20th century and England. Great Britain's demise is a great power."
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Jim Olson (Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss Putin and Russia. He had a 31-year career with the CIA including a tour in Moscow.
“James Olson is a legend in the clandestine service,” not my description of this week’s guest, but that of former CIA Director and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates. Jim spent 31 years in the CIA, including tours in Moscow, Vienna & Mexico City, and rose to become Chief of CIA Counterintelligence. He is the author of Fair Play and To Catch a Spy.
He joined Andrew to speak about Russia. He speaks the language, spent time living and working in the country, where he was involved in one particularly daring operation that he shares with us in the episode, and he faced off against the organization that would go on to become the current SVR and FSB – the KGB.
Jim has had Vladimir Putin on his radar for many a year, and he doesn’t pull any punches reflecting on his trajectory in this episode.
And…
Jim grew up in a small town in Iowa where, “we didn’t really follow international affairs, we joked among ourselves…if it didn’t affect the price of corn, we weren’t really interested.” My, how things changed for Jim.
"I have tremendous respect for the Russian people. They are long suffering. I've gotten to know many Russians. I've worked with a lot of Russians. I found them to be people who had a real soul. They had a human qualities that I could admire, but they were locked into a repressive regime that did not allow them to express any of those human sentiments that that they felt." – Jim Olson
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John Gise joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the Wall of Spies Experience. It features over 200 stories of espionage and sabotage in America since 1776.
The Wall of Spies Experience features over 200 stories of espionage, sabotage and betrayal from American history. The physical wall is a private museum on an intelligence community facility, but the second installment of the Digital Wall of Spies has recently been released. Thus far we have the Revolutionary War and the Civil War, with WWI coming up next.
Whether you want to get a sense of the evolution of espionage in America, dork out on a particular historical period, or just have a browse – we are sure you will agree that this National Counterintelligence & Security Center (NCSC) sponsored exhibit is a welcome contribution to the public’s understanding of the history of intelligence and espionage.
This week’s guest is John Gise, for whom the Wall of Spies was a labor of love. He has had a number of different roles across the US government, including a stint in Special Forces, but for now, spies from American history are with him while awake…and while asleep.
And…
If you’ve ever wondered why you can’t visit the Statue of Liberty’s torch, you need to listen to the teaser John provides at the end of this episode on the next installment of the Digital Wall of Spies (we’ll give you a clue…it’s the opposite of White Jerry).
"We've now posted online…the digital revolutionary war spies, the digital civil war spies…And we're talking in the revolutionary war about 30 continental army spies and British spies…for the civil war, it's about 25 Union spies and Confederate spies. And many of those spies are also Scouts, right? Collecting information, going behind enemy lines, conducting reconnaissance missions and collecting intelligence for their superiors." – John Gise.
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Vikram Sood (Twitter, Blog) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss intelligence in the world’s largest democracy. He was the chief of India’s Research & Analysis Wing (R&AW).
This is the final installment of our month long special on SPY CHIEFS, featuring Vikram Sood. former Director of India’s foreign intelligence agency, the Research & Analysis Wing (RA&W). This episode from the vault was recorded during the darkest days of the pandemic when the International Spy Museum was closed, infections and deaths were sky high, and Andrew was at home in his living room with Vikram at his in New Delhi.
So, is the R&AW similar to the CIA or MI6 or both? Does it have a covert action capability? How focused is it on China and Pakistan? Who does the Director report to? To hear the answers tune in to listen to an Indian Spy Chief who was in office in the critical years 2000-2003.
Vikram was in the intelligence business for more than thirty years, since leaving as the professional head of India’s foreign intelligence agency he went on to have a successful second career at the think-tank, Observer Research Foundation, which is based in New Delhi. He is the author of two books (see below).
And…
Depending on the source, India has more, a little less, or roughly the same number of Muslims as Pakistan. An incredible fact when you consider that Pakistan is generally in the top five for having the largest population in the world. In fact, India has a larger population than the United States, Pakistan, Indonesia, Brazil and Nigeria combined.
"There is immense tension in the job because anything can go wrong any day and you will be held responsible if there is another bomb blast somewhere else. But if the leadership is supportive and it's understanding, and also contributes to helping you decide things, takes decisions for you that need politically clearances. That helps a lot that takes away the anxieties, it keeps the blood pressure down." – Vikram Sood
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Ellen McCarthy (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss her career and time as head of the State Department’s intelligence agency. INR is one of the 18 U.S. intelligence agencies.
Imagine seeing a pyramid from different angles and different heights instead of from one vantage point? You get a better sense of what it truly looks like, its dimensions, colors, idiosyncrasies, and the shadows it casts, right?
Ellen McCarthy has seen more of the U.S. Intelligence Community (IC) pyramid than most: she started as a junior analyst for the U.S. Navy Office of Naval Intelligence and ended up as the head of the State Dept.’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR). Along the way, she was with the U.S. Coast Guard, in the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, and at the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency.
Quite the journey, I am sure you will agree…
And…
INR has been called the “biggest little intelligence shop in town” and its morning intelligence summary, “Better than Wheaties.” The NYT called it the “least wrong” intelligence agency on Iraq possessing weapons of mass destruction (WMD), and it has been credited for a more accurate assessment of Ukraine’s ability to withstand Russia than its peers. “They get paid attention to because they’re good and they tend to be contrarian,” notes a former chair of the National Intelligence Council. How do they manage this? Well, big question, but the deep, deep expertise of their staff – who are on average on their regional or functional area for over a decade – as well as an “intolerance for mediocrity” would be good places to start.
"The Geographer of the United States sits in INR. I don't think a lot of people know that. So, when there's a boundary dispute or you've got countries trying to build islands, it's INR that's actually working what the legal boundaries are. The other thing that INR does that a lot of folks don't know about is polling. Polling in the intelligence community is conducted at INR…And I will tell you that the polling capability at INR is the best I've ever seen." – Ellen McCarthy
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Ellen McCarthy (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss her career and time as head of the State Department’s intelligence agency. INR is one of the 18 U.S. intelligence agencies.
Imagine seeing a pyramid from different angles and different heights instead of from one vantage point? You get a better sense of what it truly looks like, its dimensions, colors, idiosyncrasies, and the shadows it casts, right?
Ellen McCarthy has seen more of the U.S. Intelligence Community (IC) pyramid than most: she started as a junior analyst for the U.S. Navy Office of Naval Intelligence and ended up as the head of the State Dept.’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR). Along the way, she was with the U.S. Coast Guard, in the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, and at the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency.
Quite the journey, I am sure you will agree…
And…
INR has been called the “biggest little intelligence shop in town” and its morning intelligence summary, “Better than Wheaties.” The NYT called it the “least wrong” intelligence agency on Iraq possessing weapons of mass destruction (WMD), and it has been credited for a more accurate assessment of Ukraine’s ability to withstand Russia than its peers. “They get paid attention to because they’re good and they tend to be contrarian,” notes a former chair of the National Intelligence Council. How do they manage this? Well, big question, but the deep, deep expertise of their staff – who are on average on their regional or functional area for over a decade – as well as an “intolerance for mediocrity” would be good places to start.
"The Geographer of the United States sits in INR. I don't think a lot of people know that. So, when there's a boundary dispute or you've got countries trying to build islands, it's INR that's actually working what the legal boundaries are. The other thing that INR does that a lot of folks don't know about is polling. Polling in the intelligence community is conducted at INR…And I will tell you that the polling capability at INR is the best I've ever seen." – Ellen McCarthy
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Summary
Mike Burgess (Website; Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his agency and the enduring strength of Australia’s alliances. ASIO is the second intelligence agency he has directed.
The top job: what is it like? what are the joys and pains of leadership? This is not like leading a business, though, or a soccer team, this is protecting the country and its citizens from terrorism, espionage, sabotage, and external interference. Such is the charge of the Australian Security Intelligence Organization (ASIO).
To address these questions, Andrew sat down with Mike Burgess, who was formerly the Director-General of the Australian Signals Directorate (ASD), comparable to GCHQ and the NSA – an agency would serve in for over 20 years. They also discussed the Australian intelligence landscape and its most important alliances, such as the U.S. and FIVE EYES and some of its important regional relationships.
And…
Mike and Andrew hit it off, especially when discussing Alex Ferguson and how soccer can help us understand management and leadership. Ferguson won more titles in soccer than any other manager, at 49, and he is generally considered the GOAT or a strong contender. Of course, trophies are extremely important, but they do not capture everything. If you are looking for an example of transformational change of an entire organization and its subsequent culture, HBS could do a lot worse than draft a case study on the legendary leadership of Liverpool F.C. by Bill Shankly. He made people believe.
Talking about FIVE EYES, that's one of those foundational partnerships in our relationships…It's unique because…it was born through WWII. It's an interesting phenomenon because it started its life as a signals intelligence relationship…at its core, it's an intelligence relationship that really has made a difference to each of those five nations’ respective national security…And we do trust each other, and we share our most intimate secrets.
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Paul Lashmar (Twitter, Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss investigative journalism and intelligence. He is a former UK Reporter of the Year.
“Cardiac stimulating experiences,” is how this week’s guest describes meeting sources in smoky IRA pubs in Belfast all on his lonesome. But he also met sources in the oak-paneled clubs of Whitehall and in many other places around the world. So, what has our guest distilled from his long career examining intelligence agencies? What are the types of relationships spooks and journalists have had with one another? What are the similarities and differences between both tribes?
To answer these questions and more, Andrew sat down with investigative reporter and current Head of the Dept. of Journalism at City, University of London, Paul Lashmar. Paul has worked across the media landscape, as a producer for the BBC, as a broadcast journalist with British current affairs television program World in Action, and as an investigative journalist for the Observer newspaper. He won Reporter of the Year in the 1986 UK Press Awards. He is the author of Spy Flights of the Cold War, Britain’s Secret Propaganda War, and most recently Spies, Spin and the Fourth Estate.
And…
World in Action was a legendary investigative TV program in the U.K. It’s programming led to the resignation of a Home Secretary, one of the Great Offices of State in the UK; the release of the Birmingham Six, who were wrongfully convicted of planting IRA bombs; and the exposure of Combat-18, a violent neo-Nazi movement. It would also publish the original story of the Spycatcher allegations that the head of MI5 was a Soviet mole and that there had been a joint MI5-MI6 plot to overthrow Labor Prime Minister Harold Wilson. Paul co-wrote that 1984 episode. For all these reasons and more, it was rarely out of the courts. The last series was broadcast in 1998.
"They would meet you in an up-market club in the center of London…it's leather Chesterfields, gentleman walking around getting your gin and tonic. It was all of that, in those days it was all informal…there are now in most newspapers, somebody who is usually appointed by the editor who maintains those connections… it's a sensible arrangement." – Paul Lashmar
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Admiral Hernando Wills Velez (Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss intelligence in Colombia. He is the former professional head of the Colombian Navy.
To hear more about his remarkable career as former professional head of the Colombian Navy, and to discuss Colombia and intelligence, Andrew sat down with Admiral Hernando Wills Vélez.
Colombia and its navy must reckon with a unique combination of challenges – including Marxist insurgents, right-wing paramilitaries, drug cartels, crime syndicates, and a vast and diverse territory. To sum up, it is a remarkably fascinating case-study for the role intelligence might play.
Admiral Wills was also the commander of the Pacific Fleet, head of the Colombian Coast Guard, and a former aide de camp to the President of Colombia. His father was a career military officer who served in the Korean War with the Colombian Navy. He is an NDU graduate.
And…
“Operation Jacque.”
This episode coincides with a pop-up exhibit at our museum on a 2008 Colombian intelligence-led operation to rescue 15 hostages held for many years by the FARC, a Marxist guerilla group who were involved in drug trafficking, extortion, and terrorism. 3 Americans and 12 Colombians were rescued, including a candidate for the Colombian presidency. Bottom line: all the hostages were freed from deep within the rainforest without a single shot being fired. Intelligence baby, intelligence.
"Time goes so fast. I joined the Navy when I was 15 years old, very young. I finished high school. in the Naval academy. And then you start your regular business as a young lieutenant in ships and destroyers and positions on land. And all of a sudden, you see yourself as an admiral. I mean, it's a crazy thing…[then] I had the privilege to be selected by the president to lead the Columbia Navy." – former Head of Columbia's Navy Admiral Hernando Wills.
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Peter Earnest spent 35 years in the CIA as a case officer and retired as its chief spokesman. He was the founding Executive Director of the International Spy Museum.
May 21st, 2022. The date of the Memorial Service at the International Spy Museum for Peter Earnest, the founding Executive Director of the museum and a 35-year veteran of the CIA and. In honor of him, his week’s episode is an exit-interview he recorded with my predecessor, Vince Houghton, not long after Peter announced his retirement from the museum.
Peter was a case officer at CIA for 25 years, largely in Europe and the Middle East, recruiting and running agents, and getting involved in covert actions, counterespionage, and double agent operations. He later went on to work in the Inspector General’s office and as the CIA’s Senate liaison, concluding his career as the CIA’s chief spokesman.
What is it like being a nice guy in the murky world of intelligence? How does a tight-lipped case officer make the transition to chief spokesman? How did a museum on espionage and intelligence end up in Washington D.C.?
Peter Earnest died on February 13, 2022. He will be sorely missed.
And…
Peter wrote the foreword for a 2011 edition of Boy Scout founder Robert Baden-Powell’s classic book, My Adventures as a Spy, featuring chapters such as “Commercial Spying,” “Traitorous Spying,” and “How Spies Disguise Themselves.” The only CIA officer who came through the ranks to become Director, Robert Gates, was an Eagle Scout, as was the only Director of both the CIA and the FBI, Judge William Webster.
"There's a broad respect from museums by the American public they're distrustful of almost everything else, but the trust in museums is high, and so I think it's a place that some of those senior professionals refer to. If they've come down, they feel, it's, doing good work." – Peter Earnest
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Lis Wiehl (Twitter, Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the FBI Agent Robert Hanssen. His espionage for the Russians was described as the “worst intelligence disaster in U.S. history.”
The International Spy Museum has the handcuffs that were put on one of the most notorious spies in American history, former FBI Agent Robert Hanssen. But what was the backstory of the moment those metal restraints closed around his wrists in Foxstone Park, Virginia? What did he do? Why did he do it? Who was this man? What damage did he do?
To discuss these questions, Andrew sat down with the author of A Spy in Plain Sight, Lis Wiehl. Lis is a former Federal Prosecutor and a legal analyst and reporter on major news networks, including a 15-year stint at Fox News. She is the best-selling author of 20 fiction and non-fiction books and last but not least she is the daughter of an FBI Agent who heard stories of Hanssen’s betrayal from her father.
Hanssen betrayed “jewel in the crown of American intelligence, Dimitri Polyakov, and other U.S. assets, as well as handing over thousands of pages of highly classified information to the Soviet Union and later Russia.
And…
In the intelligence community compartmentalization is a way to try to protect sensitive information, caveats, codewords, clearances, read ins, need to know, etc., but in the personal context it refers to being capable of being a “different person in terms of outlook, values and behavior at different times and circumstances.” David Charney met with Hanssen for an entire year after his arrest and described him as “the most compartmentalized person I have ever met.” He also mentions that he is a very experienced psychiatrist. Charney says in terms of compartmentalization most of us are a 1-2 on a scale of 10. Guess where Hanssen was?
"At one point hacked into one of his colleagues’ computers to get more information, he was found out and his excuse was, I was just trying to show you how easily we're hacked into so that we can make sure that we don’t, and they believed him because he was a computer guy…they just believed him when he hacked in this other person's computer. Crazy." – Lis Wiehl
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Mike Susong (Website; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss CIA, cyber and corporate intelligence. He won the Intelligence Star for Heroism in the Field.
Intelligence
Andrew sat down with W. Michael Susong for a two-parter to discuss CIA, cyber and Burning Man. Last week in PART I we looked at Mike’s time working for the CIA and in the domain of human intelligence, while in PART II we will focus on his time as an entrepreneur and intelligence leader in the cyber threat intelligence and competitive intelligence spaces.
Mike was a U.S. Army major who completed multiple combat tours and a CIA case officer. He went into the private sector and created competitive intelligence programs for Fujitsu and Ernst & Young, and he was a pioneer in the field of cyber threat intelligence or CTI, creating the first programs for Visa and Pacific Gas & Electric. He is both CISM and CPP certified and a Black Rock Ranger.
And…
Black Rock Rangers are volunteers at Burning Man, an annual event that focuses on artistic expression, spiritual regeneration, and radical inclusion. It culminates in the symbolic burning of a large wooden effigy, known as “The Man.” If you want to explore the event or the ideas that propel it, including its roots in the Californian counter-culture and its Silicon Valley connections, you can do so here, here, here, here, here, and here.
"I worked with, with two corporations to build competitive intelligence programs, for them…I want to emphasize that's the ethical application of certain aspects of the intelligence cycle, to support a business decision. So, this was more on the analysis piece, some on collection, and certainly when you start to speak of collection within a private sector environment, you have to have clear, bright lines aloud about what is and is not acceptable." – Mike Susong
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Mike Susong (Website; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss CIA, cyber and corporate intelligence. He won the Intelligence Star for Heroism in the Field.
What is it like to do intelligence for Uncle Sam and then for the private sector? What is different and what is similar? How did intelligence go from supporting national security decision-making to business decision-making?
To answer these questions, Andrew sat down with W. Michael Susong for a two-parter. PART I will focus on Mike’s time working for the CIA and in the domain of human intelligence, while PART II will focus on his time in the as an entrepreneur and intelligence leader in the cyber threat intelligence and competitive intelligence spaces.
Mike was a U.S. Army major who completed multiple combat tours and a CIA case officer. He went into the private sector and created competitive intelligence programs for Fujitsu and Ernst & Young, and he was a pioneer in the field of cyber threat intelligence or CTI, creating the first programs for Visa and Pacific Gas & Electric. He is both CISM and CPP certified and a Black Rock Ranger.
And…
Black Rock Rangers are volunteers at Burning Man, an annual event that focuses on artistic expression, spiritual regeneration, and radical inclusion. It culminates in the symbolic burning of a large wooden effigy, known as “The Man.” If you want to explore the event or the ideas that propel it, including its roots in the Californian counter-culture and its Silicon Valley connections, you can do so here, here, here, here, here, and here.
"It’s analogous to business. So, there's closers, people who are really the salesman…but then they're not good at the kind of that long-term relationship, reassuring, working over time…And so I would say that there are case officers who are better at spotting and recruiting, and there are case officers that are better at handling." – Mike Susong
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Noah Hurowitz (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss infamous drug kingpin El Chapo. A weak link in his cybersecurity set-up would help bring him down.
Joaquín Archivaldo Guzmán Loera, aka El Chapo (shorty) because of his 5-foot 6-inch frame, was called by one of the agents chasing him, “the godfather of the drug world.” So, how did a low-level drug dealer from a provincial state rise to try and subvert the Mexican government to his will? What was the intelligence game that played out with regards to El Chapo? How did the cartels use spytech, tradecraft and cybersecurity to stay one step ahead of the law? How was he caught?
To answer these questions and more, Andrew sat down with Noah Horowitz who covered the trial of El Chapo in Brooklyn for Rolling Stone magazine. Noah is also the author of the recent book El Chapo, and his work has appeared in the Village Voice, the Baffler and New York Magazine.
And…
In the El Chapo trial, question No.57 asked prospective jurors, “Are you familiar with Jesus Malverde?” If you are not familiar with this angel of the poor (el ángel de los pobres) as well as the Sinaloan narcos (el narcosantón), then you can find out why this question would be relevant here, here, here and here.
"So, in addition to encrypted communications…he was also installing spyware on Blackberry devices that El Chapo was giving out to his lieutenants and his girlfriends and his wives. And then EL Chapo was able to use this, the spyware program to see what was on their phones. He was able to see their text messages. He was able to see their locations. He was even able to remotely activate their mic and listen to them. And he loved that…it was like a toy to him almost. He became obsessed with it." – Noah Hurowitz
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Daniel Milton (Website; Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the former Caliph of the Islamic State. Al Mawla was killed in a U.S. raid in February 2022.
Daniel Milton joins us again to discuss a series of interrogation reports of Al Mawla, at the time leader of Islamic law in Mosul for the Islamic State in Iraq (ISI). ISI was the successor to Al Qaeda in that country and the predecessor of Islamic State (Islamic State is a larger umbrella category, while ISIS, ISKP, etc. come with geographical designations, e.g., Islamic State of Iraq and Syria). Al Mawla gave up the names of over 50 people within his own organization: and that was only in the first 3 of 56 interviews.
One interesting insight you can glean from the documents is that Islamic State while very different from many organizations in many respects, is just like them in others: empire building, clashing personalities, struggles over process, paperwork, committees, territorialism, jealousy, prejudice, insecurity – like The Office, but with much more malevolent intent.
And…
If you want to read a document that captures (a) an important inflection point in the transition from Al Qaeda to Islamic State and (b) was one of the West Point CTC publications captured during the Bin Laden raid, read “Al Qaeda Secedes from Iraq.”
"I think we get a sense of it as an organization that exists and has similar struggles as any other organization does. Having said that, clearly, it's a clandestine organization, and so one of the overriding imperatives is security. Individuals are trying to stay alive and not get arrested or killed. And that affects a little bit of the way that you carry out business. I do think that you also see some element of the things that you described. There is competition. There are people who don't like each other." – Daniel Milton
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Daniel Milton (Website; Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss Tactical Interrogation Reports of the former Caliph of the Islamic State. Al-Mawla was killed in a U.S. raid in February 2022.
This week’s episode focuses on battlefield intelligence, or more specifically a series of tactical interrogation reports from 2008.
Ok, so why are they significant? Well, the individual being interrogated, Al Mawla, would go on to become the second leader and so-called Caliph of the Islamic State. Ok, so why are they significant beyond that…well, it turns out that Al Mawla was an informant who gave away colleagues and friends to save his own skin, leading to the nickname, “The Canary Caliph.”
Daniel Milton joined Andrew to discuss these reports and what they mean in the broader scheme of things. Daniel is the Director of Research at the Combatting Terrorism Center at West Point, and he has a Ph.D. from FSU. He has been cited in outlets such as The NYT, BBC, and NBC News and he regularly briefs all levels of the Government, including the Intelligence Community and Department of Defense.
And…
In February 2022, Al Mawla became the second Islamic State Caliph to blow himself up during a U.S. raid. His predecessor Abu-Bakr al-Baghdadi had done so in October 2019. I wonder what will happen to the third Caliph…
"I think that's one of my favorite things about looking at this type of material is that it really gives an inside view to organizations that are clandestine and usually not seen very well from the outside, but these documents paint a very vivid picture of struggles, challenges, bureaucratic minutia, whatever the case might be, which is not typically how we think about these organizations, but these documents really allow us to see that." – Daniel Milton
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Thomas Leahy (Website; LinkedIn) and Eleanor Williams (Website; Twitter) join Andrew to discuss the intelligence war during “the Troubles.” Thomas lives in Cardiff and Eleanor lives in Belfast.
From the late 60’s to the late 90’s Republican and Loyalist paramilitaries, and the British and Irish states, were engaged in a period known as “the Troubles”: a struggle to define or redefine the future of the island of Ireland. This is an issue with deep and complex roots, but the intelligence dimension of the period known as the Troubles is fascinating and often overlooked.
To help us get our head around it all, Andrew sat down with two specialists to discuss all things intelligence and the Troubles: from the role that MI5 and MI6 played, to the Force Research Unit and the RUC Special Branch, through to how the IRA played the counterintelligence game and the role that informers, agents and moles, such as the notorious “Stakeknife,” played.
Thomas is the author of the Intelligence War Against the IRA, while Eleanor is a doctoral candidate comparing intelligence use during the Northern Irish and Colombian conflicts.
And…
The head of the Republic of Ireland’s police and security intelligence force, the Garda Síochána, is Drew Harris. Drew Harris was a career Royal Ulster Constabulary officer whose father, also a career RUC officer, was killed by the IRA in 1989. He was the first external appointee from outside the Garda.
"What's their [IRA] main role in this intelligence conflict?...one of the key points here…the IRA was quite highly regional regionalized. That's actually quite key to explain why British intelligence had some difficulties against them…Initially, it was set up similar to armed forces. It would have brigades, battalions and companies…the IRA operated this kind of army structure up to 1975…the IRA then switched to this new strategy…And part of this was to prevent mass infiltration, which had started to become a problem, particularly in Belfast pre-1975. So, what it adopted in Belfast and Derry was a cell structure." – Thomas Leahy
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Sean Maloney (Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the secret history of emergency war plans and the nuclear doomsday machine. He was the first Canadian civilian historian to go into combat since WWII.
Sean Maloney is a force of nature. The first Canadian civilian historian to go into combat since WWII - he went to Afghanistan eleven times, survived multiple attempts on his life, and two bomb attacks. “I’ve been shot at, rocketed, mortared, all of it.” He is also a Professor at the Royal Military College of Canada and the author of more than a dozen books, including the “Rogue Historian in Afghanistan” trilogy, as well as another trilogy in the form of the official history of the Canadian Army in Afghanistan.
He is never happier, though, than when wading through secret nuclear war plans and documents. Coming on the back of Learning to Love the Bomb (2007) and The Secret History of Nuclear War Films (2020), he returns to “Nukes” in Emergency War Plan: The American Doomsday Machine. Sean has been described as intense and unorthodox, but I found him intense and unorthodox.
“Megadeath” is a unit of measurement for nuclear war, equivalent to the death of one million people. It is crazy that as a species we have reached the point where we now have a term for it.
Quote of the Week
"We have public pronouncements…We have the media and academic discussion of the public pronouncements, but then there's the strategy itself. Which is usually highly classified…that's what I'm getting at with the Emergency War Plan book…you can see all the factors that fed into that, including the intelligence and the intelligence directly affects the plan…there is a direct relationship between the intelligence and the targeting, but it's also in terms of collection of information to get the bombers to the target…that's important because, to have a deterrent posture, that's credible, you have to demonstrate that you're capable of carrying it out."
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Volko Ruhnke (Website; Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his life and career in the CIA as an analyst and designer of board games. He is a former World Board Game Champion.
Intelligence
Reflections
And more…
Volko Ruhnke is a helluva interesting guy. He grew up as an avid board gamer raised on stories of the French and Indian War, which led him to design the 2001 winner of the best pre-WWII boardgame Wilderness War. His time at the CIA after 9/11 then led him to design the 2010 winner of the best post-WWII boardgame Labyrinth, where players were immersed in the operational and ideological aspects of the Global War on Terror. It doesn’t stop there, though, he has also designed a series of counter-insurgency games such as Andean Abyss, which focused on 1990’s Columbia, and Fire in the Lake, a multi-faction treatment of the Vietnam War.
While teaching a new generation of intelligence analysts, Volko combined both of his passions to help them understand the complexity and open-endedness of the real-world via board games. As an analyst himself, Volko looked at the Soviet & Russian military and counter-proliferation, before going on to be Deputy National Intelligence Officer for Science and Technology at the National Intelligence Council, and then on the Presidents Daily Brief (PDB) staff to brief cabinet level officials.
And…
Volko is now a commercial board game designer, and you can get quite a few of his games here – but not all of them. One day historians, one day…
"Games allow you to get inside and operate the machine yourself and do experiments and pull a lever or push a button and see what happens. And because it's happening on the tabletop, rather than say, in a computer program, you, you can understand it very well. You can see exactly why what just happened. So, I became among others, a promulgator of, of that particular medium for teaching as well as for analysis." - Volko Ruhnke
SpyCasts
Books
Articles
Video
Primary Sources
Wildcard Resource
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Hans Holmer (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his time as a CIA operations officer and his transition to a cyber strategist. He served on every continent except South America and won a CIA Intelligence Star.
Intelligence
Reflections
And more…
Hans Holmer describes the cat-and-mouse of surveillance and counter-surveillance the most fun you can have (a) in public and (b) sober. Ever wondered how you go from a CIA case officer in the Sub-continent, to a technical counterintelligence evangelist who travelled the world, to a cyber strategist living in Vienna, Austria?
To find out, listen to this week’s episode where you’ll find Hans thoughtful and articulate, but I think you will also appreciate his forthright views on corporate data leaks and digital personal responsibility. He originally got in touch to talk about the Operation Silver, the British intelligence operation that covertly tapped the communications of the Soviet Army HQ in Vienna, at SPY we actually have a piece – yes, an actual piece – of the Berlin Tunnel, which was a successor operation – betrayed by communist MI6 officer George Blake – which borrowed heavily from Silver: it was even called Operation Gold!
The monitoring station in Op. Silver was disguised as a tweed clothing shop on the assumption that no one in Vienna would be interested in Scottish clothing! Hans actually tracked down the modern site of the tweed store and is trying to dig (no pun intended) for further information on the operation – can anyone help…?
"I've been arguing that the way to improve cyber security in the U.S. is very simple. Any company that loses personally identifiable information, payment card information, healthcare information, HIPAA data, or access to critical infrastructure, has to pay each victim a dollar a day from the beginning of the breach till it's been closed off…the average breach lasts about a hundred days…some of the more recent breaches are a hundred million people. So, imagine a hundred million people who get a dollar a day for a hundred days. Companies would take that seriously."
SpyCasts
Books
Articles
Documentaries
Education
Primary Sources
Wildcard Resource
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Enrique “Ric” Prado (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his new memoir “Black Ops.” One of the most renowned CIA officers of his generation tells his story.
Book
You can buy Ric’s book, Black Ops, and support the International Spy Museum’s mission here.
Intelligence
Reflections
And much, much more…
Ric Prado spent twenty-four-years in the CIA – and what a twenty-four years it was. His first 36 months were in the jungles of Central America as the first CIA officer to live among the “Contras,” including a period with the Miskito Native people; indeed, the photos he took ending up on the desk of CIA Director Bill Casey. So, what was it like at the pointy end of the Reagan Doctrine’s anti-communist spear, or as CIA Counterterrorist Center Chief of Ops during 9/11?
To find out, and to hear more about Ric’s storied career, Andrew sat down with him for this week’s episode. One of the meanings of the noun “legend” is “a story coming down from the past.” Many people who were in the business at the CIA and elsewhere will have heard the stories that come down from the past re Enrique “Ric” Prado, but now we all have a chance to hear Ric set the record straight in his own words.
And…
If Ric’s communist uncle hadn’t alerted the family that his school intended to send him off to the Soviet Union as a promising student for further education…if he hadn’t taken an Oceanography class at Miami Dade College and met someone who led him to USAF Pararescue…if he hadn’t been tipped off that he was to be killed in a Contra camp during the night and extricated himself from the situation…as Bob Dylan said, summing up so much of the human condition, “one more time, for a simple twist of fate.”
"The wiring was there and the mentoring from my dad…then the trip to the orphanage. And then definitely when I got into pararescue…being one of our special operations forces, the training is very, very intense…And making it through SERE school, making it through mountain climbing school. There's a certain level of conquering your emotions that you have to do…But I think that the most important thing was that I believed in what I was doing." – Ric Prado
SpyCast Episodes
Books
Articles
Documentaries
Primary Sources
Wildcard Resource
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Summary
J. Scott Cameron (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the National Intelligence University (NIU). He is the President of this unique “skiffed” institution.
What You’ll Learn
Intelligence
o The NIU – what it is, what it does, and what it does differently.
o NIU’s position within the American intelligence ecosystem
o How NIU “banks knowledge” without compromising intelligence
o What it is like to be a student in a Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmentalized Information (TS-SCI) research facility
Reflections
o 20th century institutions for 21st century problems
o Scott’s journey from a plant biologist who has been shot at, to his recruitment into the IC at a high school soccer match, to NIU President
And much more…
Quote of the Week
"We do work in secret. So how do you bank knowledge in that kind of a community? All communities that are healthy bank knowledge and learn from it. So, our job is not just to be a classroom, but to be that defender of knowledge building in the community to make sure that we're learning from ourselves, that we understand ourselves and advance our mission by better ideas and then empowering the next generation to take those and equip them with the confidence to go out there and do something with it." – Scott Cameron
Episode Notes
“TS-SCI” is one of the major terms you will hear with regards to American intelligence, but what happens if you cross that with the concept of “the university,” a place that relies on sharing information, pooling knowledge, and the free flow of ideas? To find out how this circle is squared, Andrew sat down with President of the National Intelligence University, Scott Cameron.
The NIU, which is housed at the Intelligence Community Campus Bethesda (ICCB), alongside our friends at the NCSC and quite a few other agencies, is unique in many ways. It is behind “guards, guns, and gates,” you need TS-SCI clearance to apply, and tuition is courtesy of the government. The staff-student ratio is also in the very top tier of the 4000 or so degree granting institutions in the United States. It transitioned from the DIA to the ODNI in June of 2021.
And…
Scott’s grandmother was from Glasgow, as was Allan Pinkerton, Bobby Thompson, Craig Ferguson, and Christina Conte (try her fish n’ chips recipe!). Incidentally, there are many more Glasgow’s in the United States than in Scotland, at 21.
Further Resources
SpyCast Episodes
· Joint Special Operations University President “Ike” Wilson
Virtual Exhibition
Books
· China’s Artificial Intelligence Ecosystem, R. Uber (2020)
· History of American Higher Ed., R. Geiger (2016)
· Higher Ed. & the Growth of Knowledge, M. Segre (2015)
· NIU’s Role in Interagency Research, Johnson et al. (2013)
Articles
· Eisenhower Signs National Defense Intelligence Ed. Act (Politico, 2018)
· Goldwater-Nichols & the Evolution of JPME (CRS, 2016)
· The Origins of JPME (JFQ, 2005)
Audio
· NIU Moving Under ODNI Umbrella (FedNewsNet, 2021)
Websites
· NIU Degrees (NIU)
· NIU Catalog, 2021-22 (NIU)
· College of Strategic Intelligence (NIU)
· School of Science & Technology Intelligence (NIU)
· Institute for Intelligence Research (NIU)
· IC Centers for Academic Excellence (DNI)
Primary Sources
· The American Scholar, R. Waldo Emerson (Em.Cent., 1837)
· The Idea of a University, J. H. Newham (1852, 1858)
· National Defense Education Act of 1958 (FedEdPolicy)
· Degree Granting Authority for NIU (GovInfo, 2012)
· US Intelligence Community’s Human Capital Vision 2020 (DNI, 2014)
· The National Intelligence Strategy of the US (DNI, 2019)
· NIC - Global Trends 2040 (DNI, 2021)
Wildcard Resource
How to set up a “SCIF,” aka:
· “Technical Specifications for Construction & Management of Sensitive Compartmented Information Facilities” (DNI, 2020)
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Summary
David Fricker (Website; LinkedIn) had the No.2 job at Australia’s security and intelligence agency ASIO. He sat down with Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the relationship between this role and his most recent one as Director-General of the National Archives of Australia.
What You’ll Learn…
Intelligence
o ASIO, the Australian intelligence landscape and the region
o His role as CIO and then Deputy-Director General of ASIO
o The role major allies & partners play including the US and Five Eyes (FVEY)
o David’s views on intelligence and public trust
Reflections
o David’s abiding interest in the power of information
o The importance of museums and archives in a knowledge society
And much more…
Episode Notes
Ever wondered what it would be like to go from gamekeeper to poacher, spy chief to chief archivist and - as this week's guest said tongue-in-cheek - the “biggest blabber-mouth in the country”?
If the answer is yes, you’ll appreciate this week’s guest David Fricker, who has had all manner of interesting jobs, including a ten-year stint with the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO), akin to the FBI and MI5, followed by ten years with the National Archives of Australia.
By way of information, the “Australian Intelligence Community” is also comprised of: the Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS), similar to the CIA; Defence Intelligence Organisation (DIO), similar to the DIA; the Australian Signals Directorate (ASD), similar to the NSA; and Australian Geo-spatial Intelligence Organization (AGO), similar to the NGA; and Office of National Intelligence (ONI), similar to the ODNI.
And…
David was a pretty mean COBOL programmer back in the day, a computer language that grew out of a Department of Defence sponsored program to find a common business language. You can learn it here. It is a legacy software system across the U.S. government and you can command six-figure salaries if you can program in it: any retirement plans David?
Quote of the Week
"I think what the SPY museum does and what I hope we do at the National Archives in Australia, gets back to the public...some of it can be quite entertaining. It can be quite engaging and fun, but the work we do has got a serious message as well. And I think it's to make sure the public in a liberal democracy, the public should know. What espionage, what spycraft is all about." – David Fricker
Further Resources
SpyCasts
o “Desperately, Madly in Love” – Brett Peppler and the Australian IC
o “I was a Presidential Daily Briefer on 9/11” – Mike Morell & President Bush
Virtual Exhibition
o Spy: Espionage in Australia (NAA)
Books
o Spies & Sparrows: ASIO & the Cold War, P. Deery (2022)
o Between Five Eyes, A. Wells (2020)
o Intelligence & the Function of Government, D. Baldino & E. Crawley (2018)
o The Official History of ASIO – 3 Volumes, D. Horner, J. Blaxland, R. Crawley (2014/2015/2016)
Articles
o “Strategic Intelligence Practice in the Australian IC,” P. Walsh & M. Harrison, INS, 2021)
o “The Post-9/11 Evolution of an Australian National Security Community,” D. Jones, INS (2016)
o “ASIO Debate”, L. Clohesy, The Conversation (2014)
Audio
o Spymasters & Secret Agents: the Birth of ASIO (ABC, 2022)
o ASIO’s Official History, J. Blaxland (The Conversation, 2015)
Documentary
o Final Rendezvous (ABC, 2020)
Websites
o ASIO (ASIO)
o NAA (NAA)
Primary Sources
o Letter to Petrov from Prime Minister Menzies (1954)
o Royal Commission on Espionage Report (1955)
o ASIO Report on Ric Throssell (1971-74, NAA)
o Report on ASIO (NLA, 1977)
o Australian Intelligence, 1900-1950 (NAA, 1977)
o Soviet Embassy Contact with Members of Parliament (1971-86)
o ASIO Annual Report 2020-21 (2021, ASIO)
Further Research
o History of Intelligence & Security (NAA)
o US-Australia Diplomatic Oral Histories (ADST)
Wildcard Resource
Pine Gap
o A fictional portrayal of a real-world AUS-US spy site in Central Australia (Netflix, 2018)
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Summary
Joe Weisberg (Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his new book on Russia. Joe is the creator of award-winning TV drama The Americans and a former CIA officer.
What You’ll Learn
Intelligence
o His past experience as a hardliner who loved to hate the “evil empire”
o His thoughts on a trip through the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe in the twilight of the Cold War, especially experiencing it as an American Jew
o His interpretation of the KGB and Vladimir Putin
o His take on the “moral equivalency” argument and U.S. foreign policy
·Reflections
o The role of complexity vs. simplicity in understanding “the Other”
o Joe’s journey from the Chicago suburbs of Illinois to Langley to New York City
And much, much more…
Episode Notes
“How dare you, Joe Weisberg, make me rethink my comfortable loathing of the Russians.” Not Andrew’s words, but those of former chief of CIA counterintelligence James Olson in an encomium for the book (albeit a little tongue-in-cheek). If that is not enough to get you intrigued in Joe’s new book, Russia Upside Down, then perhaps the sub-title will, An Exit Strategy for the Second Cold War. So how do we get out of the Second Cold War?
To find out Joe’s diagnosis and prognosis, and much else besides, Andrew sat down with him for this week’s episode. A fair number of listeners will know of Joe as creator of the award-winning and hugely popular TV series, The Americans, some may even know that he had a three-and-a-half-year stint in the CIA where he trained to be a case officer; a few may even be a know him from his stint at the Agency which began on the eve of the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
And…
The Americans is set in and around NoVa which is replete with all manner of famous sites from intelligence history – including the Arlington home of real-life Russian illegals Nataliya Pereverzeva and Michael Zottoli Mikhail Kutsik who were rolled up by the FBI in 2010 as part of Operation Ghost Stories” which we cover in our exhibits.
Quote of the Week
"When I was working at the CIA and in my younger years, I had a very one-dimensional view of this evil empire, this totalitarian state that we had to fight because we were the good guys, and we were the bad guys. And the book that I've written is essentially a kind of argument with myself or me with my younger self to say, huh, I think you were not looking at that in all the complexity that you might have." – Joe Weisberg
FURTHER RESOURCES
SpyCasts
o KGB Illegal Jack Barsky here and here
o The Spymasters Prism: CIA Legend Jack Devine on Countering Russian Aggression
o 2010 Russian Spy Case – KGB Major General Oleg Kalugin
o Spy Sites of Washington D.C.
Books
o Putin’s People: How the KGB Took Back Russia, Catherine Belton (2020)
o The New Tsar: Rise & Reign of Vladimir Putin, Steven Lee Myers (2016).
o Spy Handler: Memoir of a KGB Officer - The Man Who Recruited Robert Hanssen & Aldrich Ames, Victor Cherkashin (2004)
o The Caucasus, Thomas De Waal (2018)
o Khrushchev's Thaw and National Identity in Soviet Azerbaijan, Jamil Hasanli (2014)
o The Best Books on Contemporary Russia (Five Books)
Articles
o “Dictatorship and Double Standards,” Jeane Kirkpatrick, Commentary (1979)
o NATO Enlargement & Russia (NATO, 2014)
o “False Equivalence” & “Tu Quoque”, IEP
Documentaries
o The Putin Interviews (ShowTime, 2017)
o Cold War 2.0, Vice/HBO (2015)
Primary Sources
o Russian-Chinese Relations (CIA, 1998)
o Putin’s Munich Speech, (WaPo, 2007)
o Interview With KGB/SVR Illegal (Chekist Monitor, 2020)
o U.S. Ambassadors to Russia Interviewed (NSA)
o US-Russia Oral Histories (ADST)
o Archival Research on Russia (NSA)
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Summary
David Cattler (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss how intelligence functions at NATO. He is the NATO Assistant Secretary General for Intelligence and Security.
What You’ll Learn
o What it is like to be the leader of intelligence and security across the largest peacetime alliance in history?
o How does intelligence come together at NATO – who are the key-players, institutions, and stakeholders?
o What are some of the main challenges facing the Alliance including Russia and Cyber?
o “Reading” an institution and its key players
o The importance of “soft skills” in professional life
Episode Notes
Every polisci student knows from their Plato to NATO class, that NATO is (a) considered the most successful alliance of its kind in history and (b) was founded in 1949. As you can imagine, intelligence is incredibly important to the whole endeavor, so why has NATO only had an intelligence supremo since 2016?
To find out the answer, and much else besides, Andrew sat down with David Cattler. David is (a) the principal advisor on intelligence to the NATO Secretary General and (b) the lead for coordinating intelligence relationships between NATO and the 75 individual intelligence agencies across its 30 constituent nations (talk about herding cats).
With Russian forces built up on the Ukrainian border in February 2022, the timing of this episode is, well, germane.
And…
Andrew picked David up outside the U.S. Department of State and drove him to the SpyCast studio at SPY – if the traffic is right, you can do it in under 10 minutes!
Quote of the Week
"The secretary general is my boss but imagine him in this context to put it in a different frame is that he is the CEO of a large international conglomerate that engages in multiple business lines. And I am the CEO of the business line for intelligence and security. The nation's intelligence services in effect are my corporate board. So, they provide that governance and the oversight for all the work." – David Cattler
Further Resources
SpyCasts
o Able Archer 83: An Interview with Nate Jones
o Our Latest Long War: An Interview with Ben Jones
Books
o Enduring Alliance: A History of NATO & the Postwar Global Order, Timothy Andrews Sayle (2019)
o How NATO Adapts: Strategy & Organization in the Alliance Since 1950, Seth A. Johnson (2017)
o The Memoirs of General Lord Ismay, Lord Ismay (1960)
o Present at the Creation, Dean Acheson (1969)
o The Best Books on Contemporary Russia (Five Books)
Video
o What is NATO, Why Does it Exist, and How Does it Work? (NATO)
o How Does a Country Join NATO? (NATO)
Documentary
o The Cold War, Narrated by Kenneth Branagh (CNN 1998)
Websites
o NATO Declassified (NATO)
o NATO (Atlantic Council)
o NATO (RUSI)
Primary Sources
o The North Atlantic Treaty (1949)
o Address by Harry S. Truman on the Signing of the North Atlantic Treaty (1949)
o North Atlantic Council – First Session – Summary Minutes (1949)
o Historical Holdings on NATO (Eisenhower Library)
o The NATO Problem: French Forces in Europe (CIA, 1966)
o Being NATO’s Secretary General on 9/11 (2011)
o USNATO Oral Histories (ADST)
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"The Wright Brothers of the U.S. Drone Warfare Program." That is how some people have referred to this week's guests, Alec Bierbauer and Mark Cooter. Andrew sat down with them to dig into drones and their intelligence implications.
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This was the most popular episode of 2020. Apparently, people are interested in the views of former GCHQ Director, Joint Intelligence Committee Chair, and first UK Security and Intelligence Coordinator on, well - how spies think. I am sure David – now a Visiting Professor at Kings College, London – has a few thoughts on the subject. Hear Andrew debrief this week’s guest on the insights derived from a career spent at the summit of British intelligence. 1 Book, 2 Glaswegians, 10 Lessons in Intelligence. It’s simple, really. Sláinte!
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Alexis Albion – star of our 500th episode anniversary special – is a very good friend of the current Undersecretary for Arms Control & International Security, Bonnie Jenkins. Way back when, they were both on the 9/11 Commission Report – while Alexis’ focus was on the CIA and counterterrorism before the attacks, Bonnie’s was on the DOD and counterterrorism – tiny subjects, I know. In this week’s episode, hear two old friends reminisce, reflect, and put the world to rights. Move over Saturn, get out of the way Jupiter, two huge brains are a comin’ through.
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Spook. Warrior. Author. This week’s guest is one helluva interesting guy. He was in a clandestine Special Forces unit in Berlin during the Cold War, “stay behinds” who would sabotage, subvert and generally wreak havoc should World War III break out. He was badly wounded after driving over a land-mine in Somalia in 1992, almost losing his entire leg and suffering a serious head injury. In a subsequent life, James was a CIA officer in Africa when the US embassies were blown up in Kenya and Tanzania and saw the Agency pivot in the aftermath of 9/11. Oh, did I mention, he also dabbles in combat archaeology.
“Hours and hours of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror.” If this sounds like your last trip down the I-95, listening to your blowhard uncle at Thanksgiving, or what it’s like to watch Jets vs. Giants, it’s purely coincidence – for it’s how this week’s guest characterized Army life.
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Project Prometheus. In the words of ex-Delta Force author Brad Taylor, “Super Double Daddy Bad Classified.” If you’re looking to find a podcast that helps break down the complexities of Chinese foreign policy through the vehicle of a page-turner written by a NYT Bestselling Author, you’ve arrived at the right doorstep my friend. Brad does serious research. He is also funny, down-to-earth, and super-duper interesting. Por ejemplo, on his first date with his now wife, he told her he was going to join Special Forces and write a novel – after 21 years in the military, including many years in a special mission unit, Brad has now written 15. We talk through American Traitor, Pike Logan, his writing process (and Chinese foreign policy).
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I was really good at buying drugs, which is how I got recruited into narcotics. Apparently, I make a really good crackhead.” “Frankly, fact-checking doesn’t matter in today’s world.” Intrigued? You should be. Avril and Lisa are absolutely fascinating! Avril built an intelligence team for the Attorney General’s Office in Pennsylvania, from scratch. Her unit collected strategic intel on narcotics trends and went on to predict the methamphetamine trend before it even hit the Keystone State. Lisa was the Digital Director for Angus King of Maine, a Senator on the Select Committee on Intelligence, the Armed Services Committee, and the Energy & Natural Resources Committee. Hmmmm…do you think those committees might have digital information foreign adversaries might be interested in…Get the full skinny on Avril – CSO for Github - and Lisa – CEO of Alethea Group - in this week’s SpyCast. Because intel is regional too.
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Post 9/11, special operations and intelligence worked together side-by-side, shoulder-to-shoulder and hand-in-glove (or any other heavily-hyphenated term you care to mention that connotates BFFness). What will happen with the relationship now, though, and in American history how have these two important components of national security related to each other? Enter the Joint Special Operations University (JSOU), located in Tampa, Florida, and more particularly their President Isaiah “Ike” Wilson, who sits down with Andrew for this week’s episode of #SpyCast. “I think, therefore I am” Nope. “I think, therefore I do”
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Beijing. New Delhi. Kathmandu. “Hang on, I thought the title said FBI, not CIA?” Well, it did. Kathy Stearman was an FBI Legat who lived and worked in all of those capital cities. “Well, I’ve heard of the Ambassador and the Station Chief, but not the Legat?” Well, that’s why you need to listen to this week’s SpyCast!
Kathy Stearman is a retired FBI Special Agent and author of It’s Not About the Gun: Lessons From my Global Career as a Female FBI Agent (I know the title sounds like Lance Armstrong’s It’s Not About the Bike, but Kathy is not a sociopath who will rip your heart out after you invest in her story: I promise). Kathy spent a large part of her career working Chinese counter-intelligence – including time in San Francisco and New York City (I hope the FBI has a generous rent allowance!) – and she speaks fluent Mandarin.
BUY THE BOOK FROM OUR ONLINE INDEPENDENT BOOKSTORE: HERE
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The Committee on Public Information (CPI) is the first and only Ministry of Propaganda the United States has ever had. It started one week after the United States entered World War I in April of 1917; in fact, there wasn't even conscription for some weeks, but the Committee on Public Information was created right away. Why? To explore this question, and to learn more about the CPI, Andrew sat down with journalist, professor and Vietnam veteran Jack Hamilton (yes, actually sat down, like face-to-face, eyeball-to-eyeball!).
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Doug London is thoughtful and reflective – but he doesn’t pull his punches and he candidly shares his analysis of the contemporary intelligence landscape. In this second part, Doug reflects on the path taken after 9/11, the CIA at the crossroads, and why human intelligence (HUMINT) will remain central to the vast and increasingly technologically sophisticated world of intelligence. Also, hear about a superstar counterintelligence operative Doug is currently running – although there is also a rumor, she might be playing the game for herself – listen to find out more…
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This week’s guest believes that espionage is about the “human soul…[it’s] a very intimate profession…the relationship between a case officer and an agent and the need to really have…a profound insight window into their life and their souls.” Doug London may be accused of many things, but you can’t say he’s shallow. His book, The Recruiter, is based on a 34 year career and can be purchased from our online independent bookstore. Next week we’ll hear more about Doug’s career, his views on CIA at the cross-roads, the centrality of human intelligence to the intelligence business, despite profound technological change, as well what he calls the Lost Art of American Intelligence.
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He was a Soviet agent who was “turned” by Karl Marx after reading Das Kapital – which led him to give up the important operations, a host of MI6 agents and a treasure trove of secret intelligence…
George Blake was a courier in the Dutch resistance, an MI6 intelligence officer, a language student at Cambridge, a “Vice-Consul” in South Korea, a prisoner in North Korea, and a hero returning to Britain in 1953. He would escape from a British prison after getting caught and would live out the rest of his life as “The Happy Traitor” in Moscow before dying in 2020. What did author Simon Kuper think when he sat down to personally interview Blake before his death? Well, you’ll have to listen to find out.
SpyCast listeners can win free copies of the book by entering here: https://bit.ly/3mW1YmL
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He has worked as a counterintelligence analyst at the FBI and the DIA. He speaks Russian. He was personally supervised by Robert Hanssen. He has an obsession with Soviet Defectors…
“Freedom has many difficulties,” said JFK in his Berlin Speech, “and democracy is not perfect, but we have never had to put a wall up to keep our people in.” What was it like to leave that type of system, though, to come from behind the Iron Curtain and cross the East-West physical and ideological divide? Kevin Riehle has spent many years studying Soviet defectors and their motivations, and he is the author of Soviet Defectors: Revelations of Renegade Intelligence Officers, 1924-1954.
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Nada Bakos is a former CIA analyst and Chief Targeting Officer, Mark Fallon was an NCIS Special Agent and Director of the Criminal Investigative Task Force at Guantanamo, Frank Snepp is a former chief analyst of North Vietnamese Strategy for the CIA during the Vietnam War. Mark Zaid - one of the nation’s top national security lawyers - joins Andrew to help break the issue down.
This week’s guests discuss their motivations, frustrations, victories and defeats in publishing, “The Targeter: My Life in the CIA Hunting Terrorists and Challenging the White House”; “Unjustifiable Means: The Inside Story of How the CIA, Pentagon and US Government Conspired to Torture”; and, “Decent Interval: An Insider’s Account of Saigon’s End Told by the CIA’s Chief Strategy Analyst in Vietnam.”
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From the SpyCast Field of Dreams: to coincide with the first game of the 117th World Series, a special episode on the links – yes, there are many – between espionage and America’s Pastime with baseball fanatic and ex-spook (it’s a baseball special, not Halloween, so no pun intended) Marc Polymeropoulos. Baseball fans, welcome to espionage; espionage fans, welcome to baseball; fans of both – welcome to our very own Fall Classic.
#baseball #worldseries
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On October 17, 2001, Team Alpha were dropped into the mountains of northern Afghanistan. Two of the eight appear in this week’s episode alongside the author of a new book telling the story of the first Americans behind enemy lines after 9/11 – and what a story it is. Justin Sapp was a Green Beret detailed to CIA, he would go on to be a commander in the Asymmetric Warfare Group, and is currently Senior Military Advisor to the U.S. Mission to the United Nations. David Tyson was a polyglot former Central Asian academic who fought jihadists at close-hand to help his comrade, ex-Marine Mike Spann, the first American casualty in a war that would go on to become the longest in American history. In an extended podcast that is both conversation and historical document: this is their story.
Award-winning journalist and author Toby Harnden helps contextualize the story of Team Alpha. You can learn more about the book here.
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This is a big one, a very big one: our 500th episode & 15th anniversary
We have come a long way since we began back in 2006 – it’s quite fitting then, that in this week’s episode I speak to our very first historian and curator, Alexis Albion, who is currently the Curator for Special Projects here at the Spy Museum
Alexis actually left us way back when to be on the 9/11 Commission Report, where she was the central researcher on the CIA and US counterterrorism policy before 9/11.
Hang on, did you just say what I think you said, she was the central researcher on the CIA…?
Yup.
I know, what the hell, right, we’ve been sitting on this story all this time!
Episode 500 is a good time to thank two of the behind-the-scenes unsung technical heroes – Mike and Memphis who have been involved with more SpyCast’s than anyone else. They are awesome. They are great guys, and they rock.
Other people who have been involved in the content side of SpyCast have included Peter Earnest and Chris Costa, our former and current Exec Director, as well as my other predecessors in the Historian & Curator role: Thomas Bogart, Mark Stout and Vince Houghton.
The show would of course be nothing without our guests, who have contributed their time, expertise and experience to help educate, inform and occasionally entertain the public on the vitally important matters of intelligence and espionage.
Sometimes this past year I have felt like Churchill, in that he got the job he had always coveted: but under the least auspicious circumstances. It has been emotional people, but, we are getting there.
Here’s to the next 500.
Sláinthe.
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From your Visa card to your Outlook account, and from the gas you pump into your Ford to your Windows operating system, a cyber struggle is taking place all around us. In this episode Andrew spoke to founder of Microsoft’s threat hunting intelligence center John Lambert, which tracks the world’s most dangerous cybercriminals and state-affiliated hackers, and the head of the Digital Security Unit Cristin Goodwin, who helps provide security support to governments and works closely with John’s team. Microsoft has billions of customers, serves millions of businesses, and works with almost every government department: to say it might have something to do with information and intelligence would be like saying perhaps it would have been a good idea to have bought buy some shares when it first went public in 1986 (June 2021 it was valued at 2 trillion dollars!).
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He is the Horatio Alger of the CIA. His first job was punching paper. He went on to be a Station Chief. He worked for every directorate. He lived in several continents. He was in the Soviet Union for six years. He was caught up in the molehunt for Robert Hanssen. He survived to tell his tale.
Christopher is genial, hearty and now lives in the other Washington (the rainy state on the West Coast, not the rainy town in Northern England) in the foothills of the Cascade Mountains, where he writes for our friends at Clearance Jobs. He tweets @burgessct
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What do you get if you cross a Greek Orthodox guy from Athens and a Jewish girl from Long Island; and then mix in two Ivy League degrees and a 26-year career in the Central Intelligence Agency? If you haven’t worked out that this refers to Marc, given that he is mentioned in the episode title, you can probably forget ever having a career in intelligence. Mark is brimming with vitality, chock full of stories, and can talk baseball and wings as well as the finer points of Algerian politics or US grand strategy in the Middle East. If you ever pull up a bar stool next to Mark: you’ve hit a home run!
Mark’s new book, Clarity in Crisis: Leadership Lessons From the CIA, distills the insights he derived from his career and is available in the International Spy Museum’s bookshop.
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As the 20th anniversary of 9/11 approached Peter Bergen sought to reevaluate the man responsible for precipitating America’s long wars with al-Qaeda and its descendants. Bergen produced the first television interview with bin Laden in 1997. He has had years to reflect on and study the man. In his new book The Rise and Fall of Osama bin Laden he captures all the dimensions of his life: family man, zealot, battlefield commander, terrorist leader, and fugitive.
Join International Spy Museum Historian and Curator Andrew Hammond in conversation with Bergen about the many contradictions he finds in bin Laden and why his legacy lives on despite his failure at achieving any of his strategic goals. Bergen, a Vice President at New America, is the author or editor of nine books, including three New York Times bestsellers and four Washington Post best nonfiction books of the year. He is a national security analyst for CNN and has testified before congressional committees 18 times about national security issues. Thanks to exclusive interviews with family members and associates, and documents unearthed only recently, Bergen has used the knowledge he has gained in the intervening years to discover who bin Laden really was and why he continues to inspire a new generation of jihadists.
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Kristin Wood was at CIA HQ on the morning of 9/11. Phil Mudd was at the National Security Council. Kristin was a PDB briefer for the VP’s National Security Advisor. Phil was Director for Gulf Affairs. They would go on to work counterterrorism together. Kristen has a Wheaton Terrier. Phil has a farm. For the rest, it’s best if you hear Kristin and Phil.
“… knowing that every day, you had to deliver relevant information to the nation's leaders, it is a feeling of enormous responsibility that all of the 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of intelligence officers who have done amazing work, you want to represent it faithfully.”
I just I didn't want to be alone. I didn't know what was going on. So I stayed at a friend's house, maybe a mile or two from my house just watching through the downing of the Towers. And at that point, I said, I'm going home. My only other memories are realizing I couldn't go to the White House.
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Dave Terry was with Vice President Cheney on the morning of 9/11. He started work as a PDB briefer the same day as Mike. He went on to be Chief of the PDB. He started out working on grain production at the CIA in 1979. He comes from Kansas. For the rest, it’s best if you hear Dave.
“And I think for any intelligence officer, what you're doing is often overwhelming, whether you're in front of the President, or a vice president, or the asset that you're trying to debrief, or your colleagues…And the stakes often are life and death.”
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Mike Morell was with President Bush on the morning of 9/11. He saw the President several times that day. Ten years later he was with President Obama for the bin Laden raid. He was former Acting and Deputy Director of the CIA. He comes from Ohio. For the rest, it’s best if you hear Mike.
“I believe that when we get to the end of the trail, we’re going to find al Qaeda, and we’re going to find an Osama bin Laden. I told him that I was so confident in that judgment that I would bet my children’s future on it.”
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It was the 1980’s. “I don't think they'll ever have the fun I had that year, at 23 years old, going to the White House and the NSC, briefing cabinet members…I mean, you name it. It was just incredible!” Three years into her CIA career, Diana Bolsinger found herself on point as the sole person working on the Afghanistan account in her department. Thereafter, she was Acting Deputy to the Ambassador to the Afghan Resistance (“mujahedeen”), a political officer in Islamabad, an analyst at the Counterterrorism Center (CTC), and received multiple awards including for her role in investigating the Boston Marathon bombing. She has a serious Afghanistan/Pakistan resume; Al Qaeda were on her radar from 1990; and, she oozes calm, measured, thoughtful analysis. Ladies & gentlemen: Diana Bolsinger.
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Turning the tide in the Pacific at the Battle of Midway, establishing secure communications on the beaches during D-Day, staving off nuclear Armageddon – what did cryptology ever have to do with anything, right? To discuss these big themes – and to celebrate our partnership on the exhibition “Codes, Ciphers and Mysteries” – we brought back you know who, Executive Director of the National Cryptologic Museum (NCM) and former SpyCast host, Vince Houghton (Retd). Through the end of September 2021, you can see the NCM’s superstar artifacts here at SPY before they return to their home base at Fort Meade. Sssshhhhh, though…No Such Museum.
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Codes. Ciphers. Mysteries. This week’s guests are fascinated by codebreaking and cryptography: as well they should be! The Voynich Manuscript, the Dorabella Letter, The Beale Papers, the Zodiac Cipher, Kryptos – so much history, intrigue, and speculation. Andrew sat down with Elonka Dunin, code-breaker extraordinaire, and Klaus Schmeh, a world leading expert on the history of cryptography, to discuss the cat-and-mouse game between code-makers and code-breakers across the ages from ancient cuneiform up to quantum cryptography.
Word to the wise: their book has been described by Sir Dermot Turing as “the best book on codebreaking I have ever read, a must for would be recruits to GCHQ and the NSA.”
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Is Edward Snowden a traitor a hero? Does the surveillance state threaten freedom or secure it? Andrew sat down with investigative reporter Barton Gellman, author of Dark Mirror: Edward Snowden and the American Surveillance State, and part of the team that won the 2014 Pulitzer Prize for Public Service for coverage of the National Security Agency and Edward Snowden, to discuss these issues and more. Bart has a serious resume: The Atlantic, The Washington Post, LA Times Book Prize, Emmy Awards (yes, plural), another Pulitzer Prize (greedy!), but I think you get the general idea…this one might make you scream yourself to sleep, sleep like a baby, or not want to waken up, but it will definitely get you thinking. If it does – our work here is done.
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Have you ever felt like “cyber” is changing so quickly, it is difficult to keep up? This week’s guest has seen Cyber-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. How? He hosts no less than 10 podcasts per week on the topic! From the Cyberwire Daily to Hacking Humans, and from Career Notes to Recorded Future, Dave Bittner is what you might call: busy. Dave and Andrew talk the Silicon Valley of the East, state-affiliated hackers, organized crime and staying cyber-safe – because it’s a jungle out there, people.
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Counterintelligence. Security. Two words that have serious pull in Washington D.C. The problem is, how do you ensure the strings, woodwind, brass and percussion are all playing the same music? Welcome to the National Counterintelligence and Security Center (NCSC). Acting Director Michael Orlando was this week’s guest, where he sat down with Andrew – yes, literally sat down, poor Hammond is actually getting to do what his predecessors did and do podcasts face-to-face – to discuss how he helps conduct the orchestra. Michael is fascinating all by his lonesome – he came to the job via the U.S. Army, CIA and the FBI – but add his story to that of the NCSC and the current counterintelligence landscape, and you have the makings of Beethoven’s Ninth.
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"Deeply, deeply, disturbing." This is how Alma's Katsu's book, The Hunger, was described by Stephen King. Ok, I'll repeat that, that's how her book was described by Stephen King, author of Carrie, The Shining and Misery! The Hunger was based on the infamous Donner Party trip of the nineteenth century, but her most recent book, Red Widow, turns to intelligence and espionage - something Alma knows rather a lot about having spent over thirty years at the NSA and the CIA. Since leaving the intelligence community, Alma has settled into life as an award-winning and bestselling author (with a side-gig as a technology forecaster!). Want some tips on writing your own book or want to know how the NSA and CIA compare? You'll need to listen to find out.
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Last week’s episode focused on “Karen Schaefer, CIA Operator,” while this week’s episode looks at her time as a “Serial Collaborator.” Karen specialized in making sure the heart, brain, left hand and right hand had a better idea of what each was up to and were functioning in unison – whether as Director of Intelligence Programs at the National Security Council (NSC), in the leadership group at the FBI (then Director James Comey was fired two days after she arrived), or with the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) in a warzone. There is always a lot of focus on the arteries and veins of intelligence – this week we look a little more closely at the capillaries.
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From counternarcotics to counterterrorism, from Latin America to the Middle East, and from the back streets of a warzone to the center of events in Washington DC – Karen Schaefer has had, how should we say, an “eventful” career as an intelligence officer. Charming, smart, thoughtful, and you haven’t even met Karen yet…but seriously, it was a pleasure to talk to this week’s guest who had all of those qualities, and more; so enjoyable it will be released as a double-header. This week, Part I focuses on her time as an operator; while Part II focuses on her time as a “serial collaborator” who worked with Special Operations, the FBI, and the NSC. Stay tuned…
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Cheesesteaks. Baseball. Rocky. Espionage? Hear about the Philly you never knew – as the birthplace of American espionage. From the Committee on Spies during the Revolution (now there is one committee, that actually sounds like it would be good to be on!) to Allen Pinkerton and Kate Warren during the Civil War, up through the A-bomb, a former Director of Central Intelligence, and a conspirator for the Mumbai Bombing of 2008 - Philadelphia has all kinds of fascinating links to the world of intelligence and espionage. Andrew sat down with H. Keith Melton, the world’s pre-eminent collector of espionage related artifacts, and Bob Wallace, former Director of the CIA’s Office of Technical Services who has been called the real life “Q” of the CIA, to discuss their latest collaboration: Spy Sites of Philadelphia. Happy Birthday America!
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Quit. Fail. Give-up. Rick Diaz refused to acknowledge the meaning of these terms. The result? Well, you’ll need to listen to find out.
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Spy satellites are fascinating! Man-made objects up there – sometimes way up there – looking down to see what other humans are up to. I believe it’s called a God’s eye view. You may not be as unfamiliar with satellites as you think: for starters, you’re on one! The earth is a satellite of the sun, the moon is a satellite of the earth, you are a satellite of…historian Dr. James Outzen sat down with Andrew to talk about artificial – i.e., man-made – satellites as part of a conversation marking the 60th anniversary of the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO).
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A superstar line-up chooses an African American spy from American history. Harriet Tubman, Ralph Bunche and Willie Merkerson Jr. are introduced, before we have a discussion about African Americans and the American experience. Our guests are Mel Gamble, a former CIA Chief of the Africa Division and Senior Intelligence officer; Reuben E. Brigety II, former US Ambassador to the African Union and current Vice Chancellor of the University of the South; and Kaia Niambi Shivers, writer, activist and founder of Ark Republic magazine.
#Juneteenth
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Barry Broman spent most of his life in South-east Asia as a photographer, an infantry officer, and as a “diplomat” (although not really!). It is not that he wasn’t a diplomat - it’s just that he did something else too…like recruit over 40 agents, escape the genocidal Khmer Rouge, supervise covert paramilitary operations, and bring in gargantuan quantities of heroin in major drug busts. Barry has lived a life – and then some. Andrew sat down with Barry to talk about his life east of the Irrawaddy River.
You can buy Barry's book here.
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What do Afghan Mujahedeen, the KGB, Pablo Escobar, Iran-Contra, and Chilean Elections have in common? Two words: Jack Devine. This CIA legend is the Forrest Gump of the intelligence world, in that he always finds himself at the center of events. Jack reflects on his remarkable career and hones in on Russian aggression and Vladimir Putin, the subject of his current book, The Spymaster’s Prism. Anybody who went from the streets of blue-collar Philadelphia to Acting Deputy Director of Operations for the CIA has serious gumption.
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Rob Montgomery had a real scare on deployment in Afghanistan…the scare was back in Virginia though; he had a motion detect on his phone that showed multiple unidentified males outside his home in a sleepy college town - while his wife and children were asleep inside. You’ll need to listen to hear the rest of the story, but it did prompt Rob to think more deeply about the life-saving skills he developed over 34 years serving in some of the most austere and dangerous places on the planet. We talk “situational awareness,” CIA training, Krav Maga, and whether you need a go-bag!
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Hear an incredible true story. Marthe Cohn was a young Jewish woman who went behind enemy lines into Nazi Germany with a pair of walking shoes, a cover story, and about half a ton of chutzpah. 101-year-old Marthe spoke to Andrew over the phone from her home in Los Angeles.
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In a first for the show, this week’s guest is a former spy chief from the world’s largest democracy. Vikram Sood was the Director of India's Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW). Andrew and Vikram talk Pakistan, China, the United States, human capital, intelligence reform and the power of narratives: because spies can be sensitive souls too.
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Where to begin. Marty was described to me as, “the greatest analyst we ever had (truthfully),” would I be interested in speaking to him? Guess the answer!? The result, a SpyCast with a CIA analytic legend. For 40 years Marty analyzed intelligence for US foreign policymakers, trained a whole generation of analysts, and mentored figures who would go on to have senior leadership positions within American intelligence, such as former Acting and Deputy Director of CIA Mike Morrell. In this episode we talk China, Asia, making sense of the world, and a whole host of topical issues.
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This week’s guest is Frank Figliuzzi, former assistant director of Counterintelligence at the FBI, who oversaw all espionage investigations across the US govt. He served for 25 years as a Special Agent, which included countering economic espionage in Silicon Valley, being appointed the FBI’s Chief Inspector, and heading up the Cleveland Division. He is the recent author of “The FBI Way” and a current columnist and national security correspondent for NBC News. In this week’s episode we talk about a sitting member of congress and a presidential candidate who were just a little too close to foreign intelligence services, and hear some of his thoughts on former FBI Director’s Bob Mueller and James Comey. Unfun fact: Frank’s first unit chief at FBI HQ was at the center of, “possibly the worst intelligence disaster in US history.” Listen to find out more.
Buy Frank's book "The FBI Way" here:
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Infosec. Cybersec. Techsec.
In the second part of our double-header on the US Air Force Office of Special Investigations, we round out our previous discussion with two former Directors of Counterintelligence for the US Air Force, Jude Sunderbruch and Terry Phillips. Their world-wide remit includes cybersecurity, information security, technology protection and all things air power and counter-intelligence.
N.B. – SpyCast 2.0
Next week we reboot SpyCast with improved audio and some additional tweaks, hacks, bells and whistles. Through the rest of 2021, we will be seeking out every ounce of audio quality we can and continuing to refine the content and much else besides. We will also be rolling out new material including transcripts for each episode with time-stamps, extended show notes that break the content down and give you the take-aways, as well as links to further reading/sources and complimentary episodes. Thanks for your patience! It. Has. Been. Emotional.
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Andrew and Director Dominic Cooke sit down to talk about his new movie The Courier (2021), starring Benedict Cumberbatch, Rachel Brosnahan and Merab Ninidze, which tells the story of Greville Wynne and Oleg Penkovsky. A Cold War spy thriller based on true events where humanity was precariously perched on a wire.
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If you think that all the best spy stories happened during the Cold War – we have a doozy for you.
In 2008 FSB officer Alexy Yurievich Artmonov was presented with three choices: (1) put a bullet in his own head, (2) wait for someone else to do it, (3) run. Which would you choose? Alexy chose (3).
In fact, this story has all the makings of Cold War spy fiction: caught between the long arm of corrupt government officials and the mob, a spy and his wife go on the run leaving friends and family behind; to shake off any would be pursuers they book multiple decoy flights, and end up drinking rum cocktails in the Caribbean, before walking into the US Embassy in Santo Domingo seeking to exchange secrets in return for a new life and new identities…except, it was not quite that simple. Oh, and it happens to be true.
Join us as we explore how Alexy, the Russian FSB officer born in the former USSR, became Jan Neumann the graphic novel author, producer and storyteller living in America.
Like the very best spy stories, truth happens to be stranger than fiction.
P.S. Next week we announce the launch date for SpyCast 2.0!
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Continuing our journey through SpyCast’s greatest hits enroute to our relaunch, we arrive on a topic of perennial interest and great importance: intelligence and the US presidency.
Just how is information from the intelligence community (IC) conveyed to the president? How have different administrations incorporated intelligence into the political decision-making process?
This blast from the past features John Hedley, former CIA officer and editor of the President’s Daily Brief (PDB), who reviews the relationship between the IC and presidents since World War II, in the course revealing fascinating episodes from his personal experience in dealing with several administrations and multiple presidents.
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Josh Campbell lit his cigar and extinguished the match. It was Inauguration Day 2017, and he was on the roof of his Washington D.C. apartment building. As the outgoing Obama’s made their way overhead on a helicopter, he turned to his father who had flown up from Texas for the event and remarked, “I hope Trump is good for the FBI.”
Josh Campbell, former Special Assistant to the Director of the FBI, was chosen by James Comey because he didn’t shy away from speaking his mind. No matter what your politics are, you will want to hear him speak his mind and listen to his fly-on-the-wall account of some of the most momentous events in the modern history of the FBI. He was present at a meeting in Trump Tower on January 6, 2017, two weeks before the inauguration, that would later lead to his boss being fired; it would also lead to his former boss Bob Mueller being appointed as Special Counsel to head up an investigation into alleged collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign during the 2016 presidential election.
Before the Report on the Investigation Into Russian Interference in the 2016 Presidential Election, and indeed before Mueller’s appointment, the FBI headed up a counterintelligence investigation into the allegations they codenamed Crossfire Hurricane (yes, after the first line of the Rolling Stones most performed and perhaps best loved song, 1968 hit Jumpin’ Jack Flash!). This is also the name of Campbell’s recent book – Crossfire Hurricane: Inside Donald Trump’s War on Justice & the FBI – written as part of his effort to speak out after leaving the FBI.
Campbell, who is now a CNN correspondent, spoke to Andrew at an International Spy Museum event on St. Patrick’s Day, March 17, 2021. We couldn’t get you two Irishmen, but we did get the next best thing: a Scot and an American with a very Scottish last name. This episode may lead to heated arguments: but if it does, it will merely be keeping in line with pub culture in Glasgow, Belfast and Dublin!
Carl Sagan said, “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” Listen and decide for yourself what is and what is not extraordinary and what is and what is not evidence – because due diligence dictated that it couldn’t be all holding hands around the campfire between Andrew and Josh.
P.S. Not too much longer before SpyCast 2.0.
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As we continue ramping up for SpyCast 2.0, featuring a content overhaul and improved audio, we release a real gem on a perennial favorite of the SpyCast community. You literally couldn’t make this one up, it has everything you’d expect to see at Shakespeare’s Globe – betrayal, suspicion, ambition, political machinations, royal intrigue and flabbergasting chutzpah.
Philby. Burgess. MacLean. Blunt. Cairncross. Spies who betrayed their country in the name of an ideal: communism. In the 1930s, five young Cambridge University students were recruited by Soviet intelligence to penetrate the British establishment. In the course of their espionage career, the Five did enormous damage to Western security. The gradual unravelling of the spy ring across the decades also led to mole-hunts and an ever widening ring of paranoia. It even put the “special relationship” between Britain and America under strain.
While parts of their story inspired the pages of Cold War spy thrillers, back in 2009 British intelligence author Nigel West examined their motivations and activities, and revealed new evidence he unearthed in Soviet intelligence archives.
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As we gear up for an exciting new Spring program – which will feature a number of changes including a content overhaul and improved audio – we are releasing some of our greatest hits from the vault. Back in 2007 Dame Stella Rimington, former Director-General of MI5, spoke about British intelligence past and present and compared British and American approaches to intelligence. She was the first female Director General of the Security Service (better known by its three letter abbreviation, MI5) and her autobiography is entitled, Open Secret: The Autobiography of the Former Director-General of MI5. She is also the author of a number of novels. Most recently in her “Liz Carlyle” series are, The Moscow Sleepers (2018) and Breaking Cover (2016). During her 30+ year career, she worked in all the main fields of MI5’s area of responsibility: counter-subversion, counter-espionage and counter-terrorism. During Dame Stella’s watch, MI5 moved towards greater openness, so it is fitting that this interview is with a former CIA Director of Media Relations, The International Spy Museum’s former Executive Director Peter Earnest. Suggested pairings: How Spies Think – Spy Chief David Omand (Nov 24, 2020) The MI5 Centenary (Dec 1, 2009)
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ONE OF THE GREAT SPY STORIES OF MODERN TIMES
Palestinian & Israeli. Agent & Handler. Mosab & Gonen.
One became involved with Hamas almost as a birthright, his father, after all, was a founder and its spiritual leader; the other was inspired to join Shin Bet, Israel’s internal security service, after the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin in 1995, and had a father in the Israeli Army. They seemed destined for a collision course.
Fate would bring them together, danger would bind them together, but it was loyalty that kept them together. A unique bond was forged between Mosab Hassan Yousef, aka “The Green Prince,” and Gonen Ben Yitzhak, aka “Captain Loai,” that is remarkably rare in agent-handler relationships. “If he could come to Israel – and I know he can’t – he would be like a member of my family,” notes the Israeli, who revealed his true identity to testify on Mosab’s behalf at an immigration hearing in San Diego. Gonen’s children, meanwhile, call the Palestinian “Uncle Yousef.”
Some stories seem too far-fetched to be true. This one is both. Hopefully you can come to the International Spy Museum one day where we look at their story in one of our exhibits (in the meantime you can also stream the award-winning documentary, The Green Prince). This episode is a blast from the past, our founding Executive Director Peter Earnest was the compère, that lives on. Recommended pairings: “Shadow Wars, 2020” – Israel, Iran & America Dec 8, 2020 “Israeli Intelligence” Dec 1, 2020
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Former FBI Special Agent Dennis Franks is nothing if not interesting. He has faced off against the Columbian Cali Cartel – yes, the Cali Cartel from Season 3 of Narcos – the Mexican Gulf Cartel, MS-13, Sicilian Mafioso’s, and all manner of gangbanger, gangster and narcotraficante. He has been a firearms instructor, on an Enhanced SWAT Team, and ran his own undercover unit. He has also worked Russian intelligence and Russian organized crime: “It was very much a learning experience, because that was very different from a lot of the other organizations I have worked.” Why? Well, you’ll have to listen to find out.
It doesn’t stop there though, Dennis was at the Waco Siege in 1993, and he offers listeners a particularly poignant moment involving a little girl, a rearview mirror and a knot in his stomach. He now runs his own investigative and security company out of Austin, Texas, and he was recently the Host & Executive Producer of A&E Investigates: The Plot Against America. This was not the alternative history TV series where the USA and Nazi Germany sign a treaty under President Hindenburg, based on a Philip Roth novel, but a real-life hunt for Russian sleeper agents in North-eastern Tennessee. Yes, you heard it correctly – Tennessee. Why? It might have something to do with a beautiful woman and the atomic bomb. Again, you’ll need to listen to find out! As a North Carolina man in Texas, he gives us the final word on who has the best BBQ…or maybe the controversy will continue.
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Nicole Perloth descended into the cyber netherworld and emerged to share her wisdom. This is the second of a double-header with the New York Times cybersecurity reporter and author of This is How They Tell Me The World Ends. Andrew and Nicole talk Armageddon, Stuxnet, Jiu Jitsu, and Michelle Obama – you’ll need to listen to see the link to the former First Lady. Sit back, buckle up, and get ready to tailgate the future.
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The door to the walk-in cooler slammed shut behind Jack Barsky. This is it, he thought, this is how it all ends – in a restaurant in the Deep South at the hands of a crazy Irish-American eight inches shorter than me. “He said he was taking me through a secret passage to a speakeasy.” But it was not the end that day in Atlanta, 30 years after the Cold War’s end, but a new beginning. The residual fear felt by the former deep-cover KGB illegal soon dissipated and a new friendship was born over drinks. We ended up, “at a very small bar, looking out through a two-way mirror at all the people in the restaurant, what a great place for two old spies to be.” Hear Jack Barsky (if you’ve ever watched The Americans he worked for the real-life “Directorate S”!) and former US Navy Counterintelligence Agent, Keith Mahoney (if you’ve ever seen NCIS, he was in its 1980’s equivalent) swap war stories. They grew up on either side of the Cold War divide, drank the ascribed kool-aid, lived parallel lives – and ended up best buds! Enjoy.
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Have you seen that episode of The Crown where an intruder gets in one of the most heavily guarded buildings in the world via an unlocked window? Welcome to its cyber equivalent: “zero-days.” Join Andrew and Nicole Perloth, award-winning cybersecurity and digital espionage reporter for the New York Times, as they descend into a cyber netherworld that will enlighten, challenge and quite possibly terrify you. Oh, I almost forgot, she is also the author of what has been called “quite possibly the most important book of the year,” This is How They Tell Me The World Ends. Guess where you can hear all about it before talks at storied bookstores such as City Lights in San Francisco, Powell’s in Portland and McNally Jackson In NYC, or indeed conversations at UT Austin, UC Irvine or at the Center for the Study of the Presidency & Congress. Yup, you’ve guessed it (we drop the podcast the day the book hits the shelves). Run your software updates, turn on two-factor authentication and cross your fingers: the future is gonna be wild.
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Counterintelligence. Counterespionage. Criminal Investigations. The Office of Special Investigations (OSI) have a fascinating remit around the world and across the country – one that also includes cyber, infosec and technology protection. What better way to break all of this down than to chat to TWO former Directors of Counterintelligence for the U.S. Air Force, Jude Sunderbruch and Terry Phillips. They are colleagues, collaborators and close friends who have seen momentous changes in the operational environment since they first met back in the 90’s (are the 90’s “back in the day” already? What the hell happened? I’m getting old). Jude is currently Executive Director at their HQ in Quantico, Virginia. With regards to Terry, what could be more “special” than talking to a Special Agent from Special Investigations? Why, a Special Agent from Special Investigations who happens to be the Executive Director of Special Projects. I hope you enjoy this one as much as I did. Muy interesante.
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What better way to start developing an Antipodean flavor to SpyCast than to release an episode with Brett Peppler. Aussie Army. Spec Ops. Deputy Director Military Intelligence. AIPIO President. Professor. He’s been around the block, thought about the block, and anticipated what the block might do next (he said he is, "desperately, madly in love with Futures Intelligence"). The Indo-Pacific is often overlooked, but it will be a key component of international security long after Brett and I have slipped the surly bonds of earth for the Great Gig in the Sky. The timing of our conversation was interesting, it was the official national holiday of Australia where Brett was (Australia Day, 26th Jan), and the unofficial national holiday of Scotland where I was (Burns Night, Jan 25th). Coincidence? Serendipity? Conspiracy? One for the intelligence analysts among us methinks.
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Marie Mitchell is an FBI agent sent by the CIA to spy on the “African Che Guevara,” leftist president of Burkina Faso, Thomas Sankara. Inspired by real events, he became president in 1983 at the age of 33, this week’s guest takes what is best about the spy fiction genre and gives it her own unique je ne sais quoi (if most of what you know about this land-locked West African country can be written on a business card, guess the official language?). The week of Martin Luther King Jr. Day seemed like an opportune moment to introduce Lauren Wilkinson to the SpyCast community: for a spy thriller written by a black female author, featuring a black female protagonist, set in an African country is a triple rarity for the genre. Join Andrew and Lauren as they talk about her debut novel, which managed to make it on to summer reading list of a former US president – to find out which one you will have to listen – and about some of her favourite spy novels. Her book is now available One reviewer said it is “like the best of John le Carré.” Need I really say more?
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January 6, 2021. What to say. Former president George W. Bush, 2012 Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell all used the term “insurrection.” As these momentous events unfolded – I watched it on TV although I can literally see the US Capitol from my rooftop – I was constantly thinking about the intelligence implications. Long story short, I reached out to Diana Bolsinger and Mark Stout and voila! welcome to a SpyCast Special. Diana’s background includes service in the National Counterterrorism Center, at the CIA and in the U.S. Department of State. Mark had an equally well-rounded career at INR, the CIA, and the Army Staff at the Pentagon. Both “formers” now teach and research intelligence and national security. Grab a brew, or something stronger, and mull this one over.
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This is the second in our two-parter with Dr. Matthew Brazil, a historian of Chinese Communist Party (CCP) intelligence operations. Andrew and Matt discuss everything from recruitment, ideology, and foreign tourism, to modern history and contemporary politics – all the biggies really. Ever wondered about the “century of humiliation” or the “Great Firewall of China”? This might be the episode for you (but don’t forget Part 1!). Matt spent over twenty years working in East and South Asia. Even better, the book is based on an engagement with hundreds of Chinese language sources. Well, whatddayaknow? 谢谢
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Edward Snowden is back in the news. I know what you are thinking: shocker! As we move into the new year from the annus horribilis that was 2020, however, one of the main intelligence stories is will Snowden receive a presidential pardon. Come to think of it, does he even deserve one? Back in what now seems like the mists of time, 2013, Mark Stout sat down with one of the nation’s top national security lawyers, Mark Zaid, for a legal perspective on the then recent Snowden case. Like a smoky 8 year old single malt, this one lingers on the palate (which depending on your taste may be a good or a bad thing). At the very least, we provide some context on today’s headlines in the run down to Hogmanay. Wishing you and yours all the best.
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Nothing makes me happier than a conversation with whip smart people on the past, present or future of intelligence: enter Heather Williams, a senior policy researcher at RAND, and Zachery Tyson Brown, a strategic futurist and founder of Consilient Strategies. With decades of experience at multiple agencies, multiple deployments overseas, advanced degrees from the National Intelligence University and a network of contacts that would do any Rolodex proud, they have oodles to offer. We talk the information revolution, generational change, institutional reform, a variety of -ologies and of course the pandemic and the incoming presidential administration. Basically, just the entire future of intelligence.
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Bet you are wondering which adversary caused him the most sleepless nights, right? From the Red Army to New Jersey street gangs, from terrorists to the Taliban – Dean Barrata has analyzed them all. During a 30+ year career in intelligence, Dean has been everywhere from West Germany to Afghanistan, from the Pennsylvania National Guard to a New Jersey Police Street Gang Unit. If you have ever wondered if there was life beyond the three letter agencies (CIA, NSA, DIA), this just might be the episode for you. He now works for GitHub and teaches at a flagship college. Ladies and gentlemen, meet Dean Barrata. Did I mention that he thinks Millennials and Centennials make great intelligence analysts?
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The second in a double-header on Israeli intelligence. This week we walk the story up to the present day – including the election of Joe Biden and the recent assassination of Iranian nuclear scientist Mohsen Fakhrizadeh. We also hear how Israeli intelligence is retooling for the twenty-first century. Andrew is joined by journalist Yossi Melman, a reporter for Haaretz and advisor on the Netflix Series Inside the Mossad, and Dan Raviv, who was at CBS for over 40 years. They are the authors of Every Spy a Prince and Spies Against Armageddon.
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Mossad. Shin Bet. Aman. Legendary names from the world of secret intelligence. Adolf Eichmann. Wrath of God. Stuxnet. Israel’s intelligence agencies never seem to be far from the history books…or the headlines. Were they behind the recent killing of the so-called Iranian Robert Oppenheimer, nuclear scientist Mohsen Fakhrizadeh? To provide some context, best-selling author Dan Raviv spoke about his co-authored book Spies Against Armageddon, back in 2012. Hear about the history of Israeli intelligence from the birth of the country in 1948 through to the end of Netanyahu’s second term.
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Ever thought you were the smartest person in the room? You’ve never been in a room with Sir David Omand. My former professor – no slouch himself – described Sir David as “the brightest person I have ever met.” It is certainly difficult to think of anyone more qualified to appear on SpyCast: former Director of GCHQ, former Chair of the Joint Intelligence Committee, formulator of current British counter-terrorism policy, he also happens to be one of the world’s deepest thinkers on intelligence and espionage (as well as the intellectual man-crush of my former professor). In his new book, How Spies Think, David distills insights derived from a career spent at the summit of British secret intelligence. 1 Book, 2 Glaswegians, 10 Lessons in Intelligence. It’s simple, really. Sláinte
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If 1985 was “The Year of the Spy,” was 2019 its equivalent in the sporting world? The Patriots were accused of spying on the Bengals, Leeds Utd. of surveilling Derby County, and the Houston Astros of stealing-signs from, well, everybody. Just before Super Bowl XLV (2011), high-school quarterback, artist and Spy Museum stalwart Dan Treado sat down with ex-intelligence officer, analyst, consultant and author T.J. Waters to discuss the secret world of the NFL. Briefing books. Secure Comms. Deception operations. Think states have a monopoly on intelligence and espionage: think again.
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Join Andrew and former Baltimore Sun reporter Liz Atwood as they dig into the fascinating life of multi-lingual Baltimore socialite Marguerite Harrison: path-breaking journalist, documentary actor, co-founder of the Society of Women Geographers…double agent.
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Fact vs. Fake. Truth vs. Lies. Information vs. Disinformation. For voters trying to choose between competing parties and candidates the distinction between them would seem to be central. But is it still possible to tell which is which? In this week’s SpyCast Andrew is joined by two analysts from the Alliance for Securing Democracy – Russia watcher Brad Hanlon and China watcher Bryce Barros – to try to get to the bottom of what is going on. Is “disinformation” fake news and malarkey, or a serious threat to the future of democracy?
Transcript available at https://www.spymuseum.org/spycast
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For Andrew Hammond, a Scotsman and the historian and curator of the International Spy Museum, the loss of iconic actor Sean Connery this week at the age of 90 hits particularly hard.
“As a Scot, someone from the same country, it’s a great loss and a deep loss,” Hammond told WTOP. “For spy fans and people who are from Scotland, but also for anyone who’s ever loved having the lights out and escaping through the lens of cinema, it’s just a great loss.”
James Bond movies, Hammond said, have taught lots of people what they know about being a spy, even if many of them are pure fantasy - via WTOP.
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What do you get if you cross a Harvard historian with a UCLA trained political scientist and an award winning doctoral researcher? One word: context. Join Andrew and his guests – Calder Walton, Dov Levin and Magda Long – as they drill down into intelligence agencies and electoral intervention.
Transcript available at https://www.spymuseum.org/spycast
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Authorized History of a Secret Intelligence Agency –(STOP)– author debriefed by Spy Historian Hammond –(STOP)– WW1 WW2 Cold War –(STOP)– reevaluation of Western Front Bletchley Park Ultra Falklands War –(STOP)– discuss Authorized Histories “Cyber Rifles” and coming century –(STOP)– Podcast released on same day as Ferris book –(STOP) – a coincidence? (END TELEGRAM)
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SPY Curator Alexis Albion asks author Ben Macintyre “Can women spies have it all?”, as they discuss his latest book on the extraordinary Ursula Kuczynski aka Agent Sonya.
Transcript available at https://www.spymuseum.org/spycast
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In the second of our “changing of the guard” episodes, the new SpyCast host Andrew Hammond sits down with Vince. It’s Been Emotional.
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Author Chris Whipple discusses his new book, The Spymasters:How the CIA Directors Shape History and the Future with SPY Executive Director Chris Costa.
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Dr. Vince Houghton sat down for a conversation with the new International Spy Museum historian, Dr. Andrew Hammond.
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SPY Executive Director Chris Costa sat down with Kristin Wood who spent more than two decades with CIA in a number of roles.
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SPY Historian sat down with some of the leadership of the Bureau of Intelligence and Research for a candid conversation
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former CIA operations officer Alison Bouwmeester to discuss her career, and how she’s been helping people transition from government service to the private sector.
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Executive Director Chris Costa sits down with Professor Kevin King to learn more about his career traveling the world, and how that led to him being held by the Taliban for over three years.
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On July 23rd, we had a great conversation with Jonna Mendez about spies in Hollywood.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former US Navy officer and double agent Art Lindberg to discuss his career and the sting operation that snared multiple Soviet spies.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with bestselling thriller author Brad Thor to discuss his writing career, his process, book research, and how novelists can play a vital role in US national security
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with an extraordinary panel to have a candid discussion about racial issues in the intelligence community.
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SPY Executive Director Chris Costa sat down with GEOINT pioneer Keith Masback to discuss all things geospatial.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with 4 of your favorite spy fiction authors to discuss how they entertain and educate.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with author Nancy Greenspan to discuss the life of notorious Soviet spy Klaus Fuchs, the fascinating subject of her new book, Atomic Spy: The Dark Lives of Klaus Fuchs
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Executive Director Chris Costa talks to Keith Melton and Bob Wallace about their newest book, Spy Sites of New York City: A Guide to the Region’s Secret History.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton had a virtual conversation with three former intelligence professionals to discuss their choices of careers following their time as practitioners
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down for a virtual conversation about the 60th anniversary of one of the most historic events of the Cold War.
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Executive Director Chris Costa talks with GSG9 Commander Jerome Fuchs about the history and evolution of GSG9, as well as his career with the organization.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former intelligence analysts Mark Stout and Cindy Storer to discuss how intel analysts in the US and around the world are viewing the coronavirus situation.
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Executive Director Chris Costa is joined by former Commander of U.S. Central Command General Joseph Votel to discuss his insights into current events in the Middle East and Afghanistan, and the fight against ISIS.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with prolific author and historian Harvey Klehr to discuss Soviet espionage and his newest book, The Millionaire Was a Soviet Mole: The Twisted Life of David Karr.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down (remotely) with professor Thomas Rid to discuss the history of disinformation, and his new book, Active Measures: The Secret History of Disinformation and Political Warfare.
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Executive Director, Chris Costa is joined by former CIA Officer and author, Sam Faddis to discuss his book The CIA War in Kurdistan: The Untold Story of the Northern Front in the Iraq War.
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Executive Director, Chris Costa talks with Kirsten Fontenrose, current Director of the Scowcroft Middle East Security Initiative at the Atlantic Council, about current events in the Middle East and her twenty years of experience with the region.
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Executive Director Chris Costa sits down with Washington Post journalist, Jason Rezaian to talk about his book and experiences being taken hostage in Iran.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Rick Holland, Chief Information Security Officer (CISO) and Vice President of Strategy for Digital Shadows, to discuss the latest cyber trends and developments
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with bioterrorism expert Hank Parker to discuss current threats and Parker's new book Containment.
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Having trouble getting a handle on world events? Join Spy Museum Executive Director Chris Costa and Former CIA/ Spy Museum Advisory Board Member Karen M. Schaefer for a discussion of the latest intelligence, national security, and terrorism issues in the news.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former CIA officer and FBI special agent Tracy Walder to discuss her career in intelligence, and her new book, The Unexpected Spy: From the CIA to the FBI, My Secret Life Taking Down Some of the World's Most Notorious Terrorists
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with BBC security correspondent Gordon Corera to discuss the Russian “illegals” program and his new book, Russians Among Us: Sleeper Cells, Ghost Stories, and the Hunt for Putin's Spies.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former CIA officer Darrell Blocker to discuss his career and work throughout Africa.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with writer, speaker, commentator, and Pulitzer Prize finalist Mara Hvistendahl to discuss the rise of economic espionage, the American response to this threat, and her new book, The Scientist and The Spy: A True Story of China, the FBI, and Industrial Espionage
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence Sue Gordon to discuss her career and many important topics in intelligence
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with retired 4-star general David Petraeus, former Commanding General, Multi-National Force – Iraq; Commander, US Central Command; commander of the International Security Assistance Force and Commander, US Forces Afghanistan; and Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, where he served from September, 2011, until November, 2012.
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Having trouble getting a handle on world events? Join Spy Museum Executive Director Chris Costa for a discussion of the latest intelligence, national security, and terrorism issues in the news.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with counterterrorism expert and former MI5 officer Tom Parker to discuss the role of human rights in the fight against terrorism.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with terrorism expert William Rosenau to discuss a most improbable true story: America’s first female terrorist group and their attacks, which included the Washington Navy Yard, an FBI office, and even the US Capitol.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Jack Doyle, former field director for NEST, the Department of Energy’s Nuclear Emergency Search Team.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with representatives of the United States Marshals Service to discuss the decades-long manhunt for Nazi war criminal Dr. Joseph Mengele.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with the 21st Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency to discuss his career, the mission of the DIA, and his role as its director.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former Green Beret Major Jim Gant and his wife, former war correspondent Ann Scott Tyson, who is the author of the book, American Spartan: The Promise, the Mission, and the Betrayal of Special Forces Major Jim Gant
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former NSA Director and CYBERCOM commander Admiral Mike Rogers
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Jason Fickett, the Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge, Intelligence Division, FBI’s Washington Field Office, to discuss his career and the government’s new program to combat foreign influence.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with recently retired CIA Senior Intelligence Service officer Marc Polymeropoulos to discuss a career that spanned more than two decades and crossed multiple continents.
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SPY Executive Director Chris Costa sat down with Peter Bergen to discuss his new book, Trump and His Generals: The Cost of Chaos.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with a former senior advisor to both the White House and the Secretary of State to discuss the difficulties in explaining American national security policy to both domestic and foreign audiences
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In November, 2006, SpyCast was born. After 13 years, 397 episodes, and millions of worldwide listeners, we are still going strong. This is because of you, and your continued support for the little-podcast-that-could. Thank you! Here is the very first SpyCast: a conversation between the great Peter Earnest, and one of our very favorites, Tony Mendez,
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with bestselling author Henry Hemming to discuss information operations, fake news, British and German espionage, and his new book, Agents of Influence: A British Campaign, a Canadian Spy, and the Secret Plot to Bring America into World War II
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Last week, Gen. Michael Hayden was honored by the International Spy Museum with the 2019 William H. Webster Distinguished Service Award. In 2016, SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Gen. Hayden to discuss his life and career in intelligence.
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SPY Executive Director Chris Costa sat down with the Former Director, Directorate of Strategic and Operational Planning at the National Counterterrorism Center, to discuss recent events in counterterrorism, and the Trump Administration’s decision to end their support of the Kurds.
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In this special Halloween SpyCast, SPY Historian Vince Houghton spoke to DIA Chief Historian Greg Elder about the DIA’s investigation into telekinesis, telepathy, remote viewing, and other spooky stuff.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with author, investigative reporter, and two-time Pulitzer- winner, Eric Lichtblau, to discuss OSS operations in Europe and his new book Return to the Reich: A Holocaust Refugee's Secret Mission to Defeat the Nazis.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Guantanamo defense attorneys Alka Pradhan and Ben Farley, who represent one of the 9/11 defendants, Ammar al-Baluchi.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with attorneys John Tye and Mark Zaid to discuss their project Whistleblower Aid, which is a non-profit organization designed to protect whistleblowers – and to prevent them from becoming leakers.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former Washington Post reporter and author Steve Vogel, and the curator of Berlin’s Allied Museum, Bernd von Kostka, to discuss the Berlin Tunnel, the ambitious Cold War SIGINT operation that is the focus of Vogel’s new book, Betrayal in Berlin
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with academic and author Dr. Doug Ronald to discuss one of the most fascinating personalities of the American Revolution, and the subject of his book, The Life of John André: The Redcoat Who Turned Benedict Arnold
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Former SPY Historian Alexis Albion sat down with current SPY Historian Vince Houghton to discuss WWII and early Cold War nuclear intelligence, and Houghton’s new book, The Nuclear Spies: America’s Atomic Intelligence Operation against Hitler and Stalin.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former CIA Chief of East Berlin and Moscow stations David Rolph, who also served as the handler for one of CIA’s most important Soviet assets, Adolf Tolkachev.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former CIA Chief of Disguise Jonna Mendez to talk about operating in VERY denied areas, and her newest book, The Moscow Rules: The Secret CIA Tactics that Helped America Win the Cold War.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Matt Korda of the FAS Nuclear Information Project, and co-author of the Nuclear Notebook, to discuss multiple current issues in the world of nukes and intel.
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At a live event at the International Spy Museum, SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former CIA, NSA, and INSCOM infosec specialist Emily Crose to talk the past, present, and future of cyber
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former military intelligence officer and prolific author Peter Tsouras to discuss the role of George Sharpe and the Bureau of Military Information in helping the Union win the Civil War
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SPY Executive Director Chris Costa sat down with the founder of the James W. Foley Foundation, Diane Foley, and Cynthia Loertscher, the lead researcher for “Bringing Americans Home,” the First Non-Governmental Assessment of US Hostage Policy and Family Engagement.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former Deputy Director of CIA, former Acting Director, and former Deputy Director for Intelligence Richard Kerr, to discuss his career and his new book, The Dark Side of Paradise: Odd and Intriguing Stories from Vero Beach
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former CIA counterterrorism officer Dan Gabriel, who is now filmmaker Dan Gabriel, the writer and director of the extraordinary documentary, Mosul.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former intelligence analysts John Gentry and Joe Gordon to discuss one of the most misunderstood aspects of the intelligence business: strategic warning. Gentry and Gordon are the authors of the book, Strategic Warning Intelligence: History, Challenges, and Prospects.
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SPY Executive Director Chris Costa sat down with former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe to discuss the current threat environment.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with journalist and author Matti Friedman for a fascinating look at early Israeli intelligence, and his book, Spies of No Country: Secret Lives at the Birth of Israel
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Jack Doyle, former field director for NEST, the Department of Energy’s Nuclear Emergency Search Team.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former Green Beret Major Jim Gant and his wife, former war correspondent Ann Scott Tyson, who is the author of the book, American Spartan: The Promise, the Mission, and the Betrayal of Special Forces Major Jim Gant
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SPY Adult Education Director Amanda Ohlke sat down with Dr. Julie Wheelwright, the author of The Fatal Lover: Mata Hari and the Myth of Women in Espionage. Julie and Amanda discuss the famous early 20th century dancer: her background, how she became famous and successful against all odds, and the truth about her espionage activities during WWI.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with writer, editor, and historian Audra Wolfe to discuss Cold War propaganda and psychological operations, and her book, Freedom’s Laboratory: The Cold War Struggle for the Soul of Science.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with TD Barnes, who served as a field engineer at the NASA High Range in Nevada for the X-15, XB-70, lifting bodies and lunar landing vehicles; worked on the NERVA project at Jackass Flats, Nevada; and served in Special Projects at Area 51.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former NSA Director and CYBERCOM commander Admiral Mike Rogers
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Guest host David Priess sat down with SPY historian and curator Vince Houghton to discuss Houghton’s new book, Nuking the Moon: And Other Intelligence Schemes And Military Plots Left On The Drawing Board.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with John Browne, former director of the Los Alamos National Laboratory, who was there for – among other things – the Wen Ho Lee spy investigation. IARPA/ARL link: https://sites.google.com/create.jhuapl.edu/join
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SPY Executive Director Chris Costa sat down with the former Commander of Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC), Commander, International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) and Commander, U.S. Forces - Afghanistan (USFOR-A)
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with arms control expert Jeffrey Lewis to discuss nuclear threats from around the world, and his fascinating book, The 2020 Commission Report on the North Korean Nuclear Attacks Against the United States: A Speculative Novel
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Gary Weir to discuss some of the history of NGA, and their vital role in the mission to find and neutralize Usama bin Laden
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Peter Lapp, whose two decade career at the FBI included extensive work in counterintelligence.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton say down with cybersecurity expert and former FBI counterterrorism and counterintelligence operative Eric O’Neill to discuss the investigation into, and arrest of, Soviet/Russian spy Robert Hanssen, and O’Neill’s new book on the topic, Gray Day: My Undercover Mission To Expose America’s First Cyber Spy.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with the Director of the Center on Terrorism, Extremism, and Counterterrorism at Monterey to discuss terrorism financing, state-sponsorship, and the rise of domestic terrorism.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down for a second time with journalist, and now congressional candidate, Liz Wahl to discuss Russian disinformation operations and more.
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SPY Executive Director Chris Costa sat down with Rob Saale, the former director of the Hostage Recovery Fusion Cell.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Army officer and former CIA intelligence officer David Oakley to discuss the tensions between the military and the CIA, and his new book, Subordinating Intelligence: The DoD/CIA Post-Cold War Relationship
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with National Defense University professor Sean McFate to discuss his new book, The New Rules of War: Victory in the Age or Durable Disorder.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with representatives of the United States Marshals Service to discuss the decades-long manhunt for Nazi war criminal Dr. Joseph Mengele.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with bestselling author Larry Loftis to discuss the extraordinary WWII British agent Odette Sansom, and Loftis’s new book, Code Name: Lise: The True Story of the Woman Who Became WWII's Most Highly Decorated Spy
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with terrorism expert Peter Bergen and SPY Executive Director Chris Costa to discuss the details and highlights of the most recent national counterterrorism strategy
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with prolific author Brad Meltzer to discuss his newest book, The First Conspiracy: The Secret Plot to Kill George Washington. Link: [https://www.amazon.com/First-Conspiracy-Secret-George-Washington/dp/1250130336/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1547763104&sr=8-1&keywords=the+first+conspiracy+brad+meltzer](https://www.amazon.com/First-Conspiracy-Secret-George-Washington/dp/1250130336/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1547763104&sr=8-1&keywords=the+first+conspiracy+brad+meltzer)
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with the 21st Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency to discuss his career, the mission of the DIA, and his role as its director.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with University of Nottingham professor Rory Cormac to discuss the history of British covert action and his newest book, Disrupt and Deny: Spies, Special Forces, and the Secret Pursuit of British Foreign Policy.
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SPY Executive Director Chris Costa sits down with the former Ambassador to South Korea, Mark Lippert to discuss his career and insights on the U.S. relationship with South Korea, as well as current issues surrounding the Korean peninsula.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with journalist and writer Sally McGrane to discuss modern-day Russia, living in Germany, and her novel Moscow at Midnight.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former Green Beret and CIA Operations Officer James Stejskal to discuss the legacy of TE Lawrence and Stejskal’s newest book, Masters of Mayhem: Lawrence of Arabia and the British Military Mission to the Hejaz.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with ret US Army LTC and former career intelligence officer Michael Brady to discuss his career, the status of intelligence education, and his latest book, Into the Shadows, Assassination Corps.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with attorney Michael Pullara to discuss the case of slain CIA officer Freddie Woodruff and Pullara’s new book, The Spy Who Was Left Behind: Russia, the United States, and the True Story of the Betrayal and Assassination of a CIA Agent
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Ambassador Joe Wilson to discuss his career, the politicization of intelligence, and uranium from Niger
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Jeremy Bash and discussed his career at CIA, DOD, the House Intelligence Committee, and other topics.
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SPY Executive Director Chris Costa sat down with Rachel Briggs and Joshua Geltzer from Hostage US, a non-profit organization that supports families of Americans taken hostage abroad
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Josh Campbell, former Supervisory Special Agent with the FBI, and now Law Enforcement Analyst for CNN
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with DIA Chief Historian Greg Elder to discuss the DIA’s role in the hunt for Usama bin Laden.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down for a discussion of the most famous spy trade in history: Soviet spy Rudolf Abel for American U-2 pilot Francis Gary Powers
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with filmmaker Jack Bryan to discuss his newly released film on Russian active measures and the 2016 presidential election.
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SPY Executive Director Chris Costa sat down with Bryant Neal Viñas to discuss the story of his ideological journey from New York to Pakistan and Afghanistan to wage jihad.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with award winning author and journalist Robert Delaney, who has been covering China as a journalist for more than 20 years. His debut novel, The Wounded Muse, is out now.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Retired Army Infantry Captain, veteran’s advocate, and author Sean Parnell to talk about his new book Man of War, his wartime experiences, and key issues facing veterans today.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with prolific author Ben MacIntyre to discuss the Oleg Gordievsky case and MacIntyre’s new book, The Spy and the Traitor: The Greatest Espionage Story of the Cold War.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Cofer Black, the former Director of CIA’s Counterterrorism Center (CTC), to discuss the role of the CTC before, during, and after the attacks on September 11, 2001.
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Former SPY Executive Director Peter Earnest sat down in 2013 with former CIA and FBI Director, Judge William Webster. Hear it now for the first time.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with attorney Mark Zaid to discuss the revocation of security clearances, non-disclosure agreements, pre-publication review, and recent national security leaks.
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SPY Executive Director Chris Costa sat down for a special conversation with the former Director of the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC), Nicholas Rasmussen.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former SPY Historian Mark Stout to discuss all things American Intelligence in WWI.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Washington Post intelligence and national security reporters to discuss…well, everything.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former FBI agent and chair of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Mike Rogers to discuss his career and how he feels about the current state of the Intelligence Community.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Rick Holland, Chief Information Security Officer (CISO) and Vice President of Strategy for Digital Shadows, to discuss the latest cyber trends and developments
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with bestselling novelist Daniel Silva to discuss his career, his writing philosophy, and his new book, The Other Woman.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with historian Ann Todd to discuss WWII propaganda efforts and her book, OSS Operation Black Mail: One Woman’s Covert War Against the Imperial Japanese Army
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Dr. Steven Rieber, IARPA program manager, to discuss CREATE, which seeks to develop, and experimentally test, systems that use crowdsourcing and structured analytic techniques to improve analytic reasoning. [CLICK HERE](https://www.iarpa.gov/index.php/research-programs/create/) for more information on the program. [CLICK HERE](http://join.createbetterreasoning.com) to sign up.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Aimen Dean, former member of Al Qaeda, agent for MI-6, and author of the new book, Nine Lives: My Time as the West's Top Spy Inside al-Qaeda.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with spy novelist Ted Bell, author of 10 consecutive New York Times Bestsellers, including the Alex Hawke series of spy thrillers. The newest is Overkill.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with intelligence experts Drs. Mark Stout and Chris Moran to discuss the 2nd volume of their new book, Spy Chiefs, which they both contributed to and edited.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Chirag Parikh, the Deputy Director for Counterproliferation at the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, to discuss the importance of space in the 21st century.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former CIA Director John Brennan to discuss his career and key moments during his time as Director .
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SPY historian Vince Houghton sat down with former CIA analyst and targeting officer Nada Bakos to discuss her career, the CIA, and the current state of intelligence in America
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with author and journalist Monte Reel, whose new book on the development and impact of the U-2 program is A Brotherhood of Spies: The U-2 and the CIA's Secret War. For more information about this week’s sponsor, visit ziprecruiter.com.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Nadia Schadlow, the former Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategy, to discuss the recently released National Security Strategy for the Trump Administration.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former Navy SEAL and CIA operator James Hawes to discuss his time in Vietnam and the Congo in the 1960s. Hawes is the author of the new book, Cold War Navy SEAL: My Story of Che Guevara, War in the Congo, and the Communist Threat in Africa.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with award-winning literary journalist and author Joyce Wayne to discuss her new historical novel Last Night of the World, which centers on an infamous Soviet spy ring operating in early-Cold War Canada.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Lee Grubbs, director of the Mad Scientist initiative, a US Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC) program that continually explores the future through collaborative partnerships and continuous dialogue with academia, industry, and government. Check out their blog, at http://madsciblog.tradoc.army.mil/
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton continues his conversation with the new Executive Director of the International Spy Museum to discuss his career in intelligence, special operations, counterterrorism, and policymaking.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with the new Executive Director of the International Spy Museum to discuss his career in intelligence, special operations, counterterrorism, and policymaking. Part 2 will be posted next week.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with NYT bestselling author and Pulitzer Prize nominee Howard Blum to discuss his newest book In the Enemy's House: The Secret Saga of the FBI Agent and the Code Breaker Who Caught the Russian Spies.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former CIA operations officer Michele Rigby Assad to discuss her career in intelligence, and her new book Breaking Cover: My Secret Life in the CIA and What It Taught Me about What's Worth Fighting For.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with author Matthew Sweet, who has written on one of the most…extraordinary topics of the Cold War. His book, Operation Chaos: The Vietnam Deserters who Fought the CIA, the Brainwashers, and Themselves, is out now.
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SPY Historian sat down with recently retired International Spy Museum Executive Director Peter Earnest to discuss his career in intelligence, his time with the Museum, and his thoughts on life moving forward .
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down (remotely) with Daniel Ellsberg, who is best known for his release of the Pentagon Papers to the public in 1971. He is also the author of The Doomsday Machine: Confessions of a Nuclear War Planner, which details his early life as a specialist on the command and control of nuclear weapons, nuclear war plans, and crisis decision-making.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Paula Doyle, former Associate Deputy Director of Operations at CIA, where she oversaw worldwide HUMINT operations and activities that required the use of air, land, maritime, space-based and cyber technologies.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with political scientist and professor Loch Johnson, whose decade-long career in and out of the intelligence world has culminated in a new book, Spy Watching: Intelligence Accountability in the United States.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Paul Kix, deputy editor at ESPN the Magazine, and author of the book The Saboteur: The Aristocrat Who Became France's Most Daring Anti-Nazi Commando
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with writer and historian Meredith Hindley to discuss her new book Destination Casablanca: Exile, Espionage, and the Battle for North Africa in World War II
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with investigative journalists Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan to discuss Russian intelligence, their security services, and the Russian use of the internet both internally and externally
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Kevin Maurer, coauthor of the bestseller No Easy Day, and now coauthor of the new book, American Radical: Inside the World of an Undercover Muslim FBI Agent, which he cowrote with undercover FBI agent Tamer Elnoury .
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Carmen Medina, the CIA’s former Deputy Director of Intelligence and Director of the Center for the Study of Intelligence. She is also the author of Rebels at Work: A Handbook for Leading Change from Within.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with CIA clinical psychologist Dr. Ursula Wilder, who in her over two decades at CIA has worked within the Counterintelligence Center, the Counterterrorism Center, and the Sherman Kent School for Intelligence Analysis.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Lynn Wright, the current Deputy Director of Naval Intelligence and the Head of the Naval Intelligence Activity.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Kristin Wood, who spent more than two decades with CIA in a number of roles – from the briefer to the Vice President, to intelligence analyst, to the National Clandestine Service, to the Open Source Center.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with former CIA Deputy Director and Acting Director Michael Morell to discuss his career at the Agency, and his role in some of the most momentous intelligence events of the last two decades.
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Israeli activist and attorney Nitsana Darshan-Leitner to discuss the ongoing campaign to disrupt terrorist finance, and her new book Harpoon: Inside the Covert War Against Terrorism's Money Masters
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SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Jack Barsky, the longest-surviving known member of the KGB illegals program that operated during the Cold War, and author of the memoir Deep Undercover: My Secret Life & Tangled Allegiances as a KGB Spy in America.
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The Secret History of Disguises (November 1, 2006) Peter talks with Tony Mendez, former Chief of Disguise for the CIA. Peter and Tony discuss the intricacies of developing disguises for use in hostile environments, the advantages of selective aging, and the secret history of facial recognition technology.
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The Iranian Hostage Crisis (September 1, 2008) In November 1979, radical Iranian students overran the U.S. embassy in Tehran, capturing most of the embassy staff—except for six diplomats who found refuge with the Canadian embassy. Today, Peter talks with retired CIA officer Tony Mendez who, in an elaborate deception and disguise operation, managed to exfiltrate the six Americans from Tehran before the Iranians were able to track them down.
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Woman in Disguise - Jonna Mendez (November 18, 2008) Jonna Hiestand Mendez began her CIA career as a secretary and ended it as head of the agency’s Office of Technical Services, overseeing the development of gadgets, disguises, and high-tech devices in support of espionage missions. Today, she discusses with Peter some of the operations she was involved in as well as opportunities for women in the intelligence community.
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Leon Trotsky — Murder in Mexico (September 1, 2007) Peter’s guest today is H. Keith Melton, renowned intelligence historian and owner of the largest collection of espionage artifacts. Keith sheds new light on one of the most notorious intelligence operations of all time—the assassination of exiled Russian revolutionary Leon Trotsky in Mexico in 1940. Keith reconstructs the operation in all its phases, including material from his own original research.
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An Army of Illegals: Assessing the Russian Spy Case (July 12, 2010) Two weeks ago on 27 June, the FBI arrested a network of 10 Russian "deep cover" spies. Peter sits down with former KGB Major General Oleg Kalugin to discuss this remarkable case and the historic spy swap which took place last Friday. Kalugin, who once ran agents in the United States, is forthright in expressing his views about what this case says about the state of Russian intelligence today.
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The Litvinenko Murder and Other Riddles from Moscow (December 4, 2006) Peter sits down with former CIA officer Bob Rayle and Oleg Kalugin to talk Russia past and present. The three discuss their perspectives on the recent poisoning of former KGB spy Alexander Litvinenko. Then, they turn to 1967 and Bob's role in the extraordinary defection of Svetlana Alliluyeva, daughter of Josef Stalin.
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Intelligence officers and investigative journalists both depend on clandestine sources to divulge secrets. But why do people betray a trust? Peter interviews veteran journalist Max Holland about his new book, Leak, which probes the mind and motivations of one of the most famous clandestine sources in American history: Deep Throat. Hear why Mark Felt, the Deputy Director of the FBI, betrayed President Nixon by leaking to the Washington Post and Time about Watergate. Were Felt’s motives patriotic or self-serving…or both? Get the book: http://www.spymuseumstore.org/leak-shy-mark-felt-became-deep-throat.html#.Vz3q4PkrIdU
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SPY Historian Dr. Vince Houghton sat down with NBC News Political Director and Chief White House Correspondent Chuck Todd to discuss the growing role of intelligence tradecraft in American election politics. Todd, the host of MSNBC’s The Daily Rundown, explains how political campaigns – on both sides of the aisle – use surveillance, propaganda, disinformation, deception, and covert action to give their candidates a political edge. This interview was recorded on July 29, 2014. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g2F6lEJU_c
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In Part 3 of this three-part series, SPY Historian Dr. Vince Houghton sat down with Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Greg Miller, who covers intelligence and national security for the Washington Post. Houghton and Miller discuss the difficulties in reporting on this most secret of topics, the dangers – and benefits – of using anonymous sources, and the ever-changing nature of intelligence and national security journalism. Part 1 of this series was with Mark Mazzetti of the New York Times, and Part 2 was with Ali Watkins of the Huffington Post.
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George Cave is a legend in the CIA’s Clandestine Service. He was recruited into the CIA in 1956 as a fluent Farsi speaker and was pulled out of his entry training and sent to Afghanistan to deal with an urgent operation there. He never looked back. Join Peter and George as they relive the assassination attempts in Iran against the US Ambassador and George himself in the early 1970s and discuss CIA’s operations in the Middle East over three decades.
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Peter interviews Tom Blanton of the National Security Archive about a recently declassified set of documents regarding illegal CIA activities in the early Cold War. Putting these "Family Jewels" in historical perspective, Tom and Peter discuss the CIA’s participation in domestic wiretapping, assassination attempts at Fidel Castro, and the popular notion of the Agency as a "rogue elephant."
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Peter interviews Dame Stella Rimington, former Director-General of MI5, the British domestic security service. Dame Stella compares American and British approaches to intelligence and offers her view on the terrorist threat and the Litvinenko murder. She also discusses the authenticity of spy fiction and reveals her favorite espionage writer.
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After responding to inquiries from listeners, Peter interviews Melissa Mahle who served for over a decade in the CIA’s clandestine service in the Middle East. Melissa provides a unique intelligence perspective on 9/11, terrorist threats, and America’s continuing engagement in Iraq. She also discusses career opportunities in the intelligence community and the changing role of women in the CIA.
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Peter discusses the Robert Hanssen spy case with retired Senior FBI Supervisory Special Agent David Major who knew Hanssen for over 20 years and was one of his supervisors. Dave shares his thoughts on Hanssen’s personality and reasons for spying for the Russians. Last not least, Dave offers his perspective on how the movie Breach captures and misses aspects of the Hanssen espionage case.
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Peter interviews Eric O’Neill, the FBI investigator who went undercover as Robert Hanssen’s clerk during the final months before Hanssen was arrested for espionage. O’Neill is the model for Ryan Phillippe’s character in the current movie Breach. O’Neill talks about the ways the film mirrors—and diverges—from his real experiences with one of America’s most damaging spies.
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Peter sits down with Ron Olive, former special agent in charge of counterintelligence for the Naval Investigative Service, to discuss Olive’s role in the capture of Jonathan Pollard, one of the most controversial spies in history. Ron talks about investigating and interrogating Pollard, explores Pollard’s motivations and significance, and reveals the real significance of gift cacti.
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Peter discusses the film The Good Shepherd with former CIA officer Jack Platt and AFIO (Association for Intelligence Officers) Director Elizabeth Bancroft, comparing fact and fiction in the OSS and CIA. Enjoy a bonus spoiler in which the three debate the meaning of the ending—and the best way to destroy secret information.
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Peter sits down with former CIA officer Bob Rayle and Oleg Kalugin to talk Russia past and present. The three discuss their perspectives on the recent poisoning of former KGB spy Alexander Litvinenko. Then, they turn to 1967 and Bob's role in the extraordinary defection of Svetlana Alliluyeva, daughter of Josef Stalin.
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Peter talks with Tony Mendez, former Chief of Disguise for the CIA. Peter and Tony discuss the intricacies of developing disguises for use in hostile environments, the advantages of selective aging, and the secret history of facial recognition technology.
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En liten tjänst av I'm With Friends. Finns även på engelska.