The Recipe with Kenji and Deb

Deb and Kenji are taking a break this week. Please enjoy this classic episode from Home Cooking, our fellow Radiotopia show about food.

****************************** 

According to our callers, a big part of Thanksgiving seems to be making food for your loved ones that you only kind of like yourself. But can we make these dishes a little better for the people cooking them?! We’re gonna try. Plus, Demi Adejuyigbe (@electrolemon), tells about his quarantine baking adventures.

For recipes, transcripts, and more, visit homecooking.show/12.

Kenji and Deb are major, MAJOR fans of popcorn — “God’s gift to snacking” (two guesses who said that). One might actually call them a miracle of science. How does a hard af, yellow pebble turn into a fluffy white edible cloud? How does movie popcorn butter smell so heavenly without any butter? This is Popcornology 101, class is now in session.

Kids say the darndest things, and so do Deb and Kenji. “Nobody likes penne.” “Chiffonade is pretentious.” “I have honestly no idea what my recipe contains.” And they’re not the only ones. There are people out there who call baked ziti — get this — lasagna. 

While baked ziti may be universally loved as a workhorse of catered buffets, potlucks, and meal trains, Deb and Kenji’s takes on the dish are worlds apart.

In this episode, Deb and Kenji stop being polite and start getting real. Turns out, they weren’t born with encyclopedic knowledge of food; before each recording session, they consult…Wikipedia. (Stars, they’re just like us.)

You may think of Caesar salad as the most ubiquitous of American salads. In fact, Caesar salad was invented in Mexico. However, it was invented by an American for Americans coming across the border to drink during Prohibition. Come to think of it, that may just be the most American thing ever. Also in this episode: the secret behind Worcestershire sauce and a hack for a quick Caesar dressing. Fax, no printer.

Deb: “This is the perfect sandwich.” Kenji: “This is my favorite sandwich of all time.” In fact, Kenji has gone way beyond just admiring and ingesting the Bacon-Lettuce-Tomato; as Isaac Newton captured the physical world with his laws of motion, Kenji has bestowed us with the 11 rules of the BLT. Deb has made her own significant contributions to the field of sandwich science, with the theory of seasonal variation of the summer BLT and "off-season" BLT.

Kenji and Deb will be back September 9 with all new episodes. Watch this space!

Kenji has many pans going on the fire at all times, one of which was directing this year’s Community Curated Series for Seattle Arts & Lectures. In January 2024, he invited his future podcast bestie Deb onstage with him to chop it up about recipe development (and theft!), family, and greasy bags of Dick’s. 

Thanks to Alison Stagner and Woogee Bae of Seattle Arts & Lectures for their help.

Thanks to our friends at Special Sauce for allowing us to share this episode. Deb, Kenji, and host Ed Levine talk about ye olde days of early food blogging and the backstory of The Recipe.

We know you don’t want to burn your food in the kitchen (unless it’s a char/sear kinda situation), but you know what else you don’t want to burn? You, the cook. Deb and Kenji reveal their tips for avoiding cooking burnout, as well as how to mine your own sodium citrate at home. Did your eyes get whiplash reading this? Buckle up because your letters took us all over the map: biscuits for every purpose, what kind of pancakes Barbie would eat, how to cook like a boss for 1-2 people. 

After putting out our first batch of episodes, we put out a call to our listeners — any questions? You sure did. Thanks to listeners from around the world who heeded our call, we bring you our first mailbag episode. Kenji and Deb debunk the 30-minute recipe, contemplate tiers of butter, go down the soup dumpling rabbit hole, and much more.

In this episode, Kenji and Deb talk all about asparagus. You can roast it, puree it, sautee it, grill it, and even eat it raw. It can serve as a snack or as part of a main dish. Did you know it grows in different colors? Hear how Deb prepares asparagus as a family snack and how it can make for a great pizza topping. And it wouldn't be an episode about asparagus without learning about the science behind its notorious side-effect. 

Recipes mentioned:

Snacky Asparagus (from Smitten Kitchen)

Shaved Asparagus Pizza (from Smitten Kitchen)

Simple Grilled Asparagus (From Serious Eats)

Braised Asparagus (from Serious Eats)

Grilling season is here and so are Kenji and Deb to talk grilled chicken. From marinades to brines, to the one thing that can prevent dried-out grilled chicken: a meat thermometer. No easy access to a grill? We talk grill pans, using vinaigrette for grilled chicken, and a condiment base for your marinades that Deb now swears by.

Recipes mentioned:

• Kenji's Mayo-Marinated Chicken With Chimichurri(from NYT Cooking)
• Deb’s Piri Piri Chicken (from Smitten Kitchen)

Iceberg lettuce gets a bad rap, but can make a good wrap. In this episode, Kenji and Deb go all in on lettuce. From wedge salads with homemade ranch to chronicling the rise, fall, and resurgence of the hardest-working lettuce in the kitchen. Knife and fork wedge salads are just the tip of the iceberg. Iceberg lettuce soup? Pickled iceberg lettuce? We got you.  

Recipes mentioned:

• Deb’s Iceberg Wedge with Blue Cheese (from Smitten Kitchen)
• Deb’s Baby Wedge Salad with Avocado and Pickled Onion (from Smitten Kitchen)
• Kenji’s Fully Loaded Iceberg Wedge Salad (from Serious Eats)
• Kenji says “Wedge Salads are Great” (Kenji’s Cooking Show)

News to us at Radiotopia, but there are some of you out there who have some really strong feelings about grilled cheese, almost enough for a whole separate podcast. What is it about this seemingly mellow, humble sandwich — a favorite of both small children and stoners — that elicits all this controversy? (It’s always the quiet ones.) Even if you don’t like grilled cheese, it’s worth listening just for Kenji’s genius lifehack involving sausage.

PS - If you are Team Triangle (IYDKNYK), get yourself this rad t-shirt (100% of profits go to ACLU) 

PPS - for perfect grilled cheese, listen to this playlist

Recipes mentioned:

• Deb’s Frico Grilled Cheese Sandwiches (from Smitten Kitchen)
• Deb’s Classic Grilled Cheese + Cream of Tomato Soup (from Smitten Kitchen)
• Kenji’s Grilled Cheese Sandwich (from Serious Eats)
• Kenji’s Good Grilled Cheese (from Kenji’s Cooking Show)
• Kenji’s Late Night Chorizo Grilled Cheese (from Kenji’s Cooking Show)

Some people think tomato soup only exists to serve as a dipping sauce for grilled cheese, but Kenji and Deb are here to set them straight. A properly, lovingly made tomato soup — even with sad-looking supermarket tomatoes from February — can be a time portal, from the dreariest winter day to the peak of summer farmer’s market fresh. Kenji makes Deb’s genius “grilled cheese kind of built into the tomato soup”, unlocking a new level of tomato soup nirvana.

Recipes mentioned:

• Deb’s Weeknight Tomato Soup (from Smitten Kitchen)
• Deb’s Classic Grilled Cheese + Cream of Tomato Soup (from Smitten Kitchen)
• Deb’s Roasted Tomato Soup with Broiled Cheddar (from Smitten Kitchen)
• Kenji’s Fast and Easy Pasta with Blistered Cherry Tomato Sauce (from Serious Eats)
• Kenji’s 15-Minute Creamy Tomato Soup (Vegan) (from Serious Eats)
• Lisa Steele’s Cream-Fried Eggs (from the Washington Post)

In preparation for this episode, Deb and Kenji fed their children so many pancakes that they are now on a pancake strike. But before you start feeling sorry for these young people, don’t forget they got to taste the rainbow of pancake styles. Tall and fluffy. Crisp and fluffy. Thin and crispy. The hottest pancake in the world right now, the Japanese soufflé. Tough life, kids!

We learn why baking soda, baking powder, and buttermilk feature prominently, and the technique for “the absolute fluffiest pancake”.

Recipes Mentioned:

• Smitten Kitchen pancakes
• Serious Eats pancakes
• Chez Ma Tante pancakes on NYT Cooking

Kenji and Deb have history with meatloaf that goes way, way back, to summer camp in the 80s. It was not love at first taste, but Deb has a moment of clarity and achieves meatloaf enlightenment. Kenji and Deb chew over “meat batter”, how many Meat Loaf references in one podcast episode constitutes audio malpractice, and if parents who send their teenage children to the store for one ingredient are monsters. 

Recipes Mentioned:

• Deb’s Turkey Meatloaf for Skeptics (from Smitten Kitchen Keepers) 
• Kenji’s Classic Meatloaf (excerpted from The Food Lab, courtesy of Serious Eats)

Most people are familiar with the stuff in the blue box, but what might seem like a simple dish holds many nuances, from achieving that perfectly smooth cheese melt to avoiding greasiness or lumpiness. Find out why mac and cheese holds a special place in Kenji's heart and the results of Deb’s experience making Kenji’s three ingredient recipe.

Recipes Mentioned:

Deb’s Stovetop Mac and Cheese (courtesy of Smitten Kitchen)

Kenji’s Stovetop Mac and Cheese (courtesy of Serious Eats)

New from Radiotopia, The Recipe with Kenji and Deb. Join us to hear what goes into writing our recipes — the techniques we test, the ingredients we taste — so that you can be on your way to creating your own perfect recipe. Whether you're cooking meatloaf, pancakes, or chicken soup, we got you, and you've got this. Episode 1 drops February 26. Follow us on Instagram @kenjianddeb and visit our website.

The Recipe - coming to Radiotopia in 2024!