166 avsnitt • Längd: 30 min • Veckovis: Måndag
The Trial goes behind the headlines of some of the biggest trials in the world.
We take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
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The podcast The Trial: The Southport Dance School is created by Daily Mail. The podcast and the artwork on this page are embedded on this page using the public podcast feed (RSS).
In today's episode of the Trial of the Golden Toilet Caroline and Jack have the CCTV footage which shows the moment the heist takes place on Blenheim Palace. In dramatic footage a gang armed with sledgehammers and crowbars can be seen driving up to the main entrance and breaking in. Less than 6 minutes later they can be seen rolling the toilet away before dumping it into a car and speeding away.
Three men are now accused of being involved either in the burglary or in selling off the gold. The defendants all deny the charges.
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In the first episode of The Trial of the Golden Toilet Caroline and Jack hear the prosecution’s case against three men. One of them is accused of being involved in a heist on Blenheim Palace and stealing a 4.8m solid gold toilet. The other two are accused of helping to sell off the gold.
The jury have heard how five men broke into Blenheim Palace in two cars, armed with sledgehammers in 2019.
Within 5 minutes they had snatched the toilet and driven away.
The loo was never recovered and the prosecution case is the gold was somehow sold on.
The defendants all deny the charges.
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bringing you the sentencing of Daniel Khalife. The former British soldier was imprisoned for 14 years and 3 months after he was convicted of spying for Iran and escaping from HMP Wandsworth while awaiting trial in September 2023. Mrs Justice Cheema-Grubb told the 23-year-old he was a 'dangerous fool'.
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In today’s episode Caroline and Liz reflect on the fallout from the harrowing details of what was revealed at yesterday’s court hearing as Axel Rukakubana was sentenced to 52 years in prison. They’ll have the words of the parents of the three girls who died, and the other victims who survived, including a 14 year old girl who addressed the court herself.
They’ll also have more on what went wrong to allow the attack to ever happen in the first place and how questions are also now being asked about the tech companies who didn’t give the police access to some of the material on his computer because the incident wasn’t classed as terrorism.
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In this episode, Caroline and Liz bring you the moment Axel Rudakubana was sentenced to at least 52 years in prison. In all likelihood he will never be released. The judge said he murdered three of the girls he attacked, but he would have killed more if they hadn’t run for their lives - he wanted to carry out mass murder. In the terrifying attack which lasted for 12 minutes he stabbed child after child hundreds of times inflicting utterly horrific injuries. Then he gloated to the police and said he was glad they were dead.
It’s now become clear that Axel Rudakubana was in contact with Lancashire Police on several occasions and 2 years before he attacked the girls in Southport he was caught carrying a knife on a bus, but he was taken home instead of being arrested.
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Today, Caroline and Liz continue to discuss the fallout from Axel Rudakaban’s guilty pleas.
They also chat to criminologist Professor David Wilson about the case, who explains his theories about Rudakubana and why he might have been driven to kill and why that police mug shot may have been part of his plan to become notorious.
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Today, Caroline and Liz start to discuss the fallout from the horrific attack on children in Southport. How Axel Rudakubama was able to murder and attack children when school, the police, social services, mental health workers and even the Government’s Prevent Programme knew about his obsession with violence. Among others asking questions today is the Prime Minister Keir Starmer who said what Axel Rudakubama did that day was terrorism. We’ll bring you his words.
Caroline and Liz also chat to barrister and former MP, Lord Alex Carlile about the case, the public inquiry which will now take place, and whether the laws on terrorism need to change.
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Axel Rudakubana has admitted carrying out the attacks on a Southport dance school which claimed the lives of three little girls. Six-year-old Bebe King, seven-year-old Elsie Dot Stancombe, and nine-year-old Alice da Silva Aguiar were killed when he went on the rampage with a kitchen knife, as they and other children made friendship bracelets.
Today as the families of the girls braced themselves for a trial, he changed his pleas to guilty. Caroline and Liz will outline what we now know about what happened on that day, but also in the days, weeks, months and years before. How police believe he planned to attack pupils at his previous school, and how he was referred to the Government’s Prevent programme years before.
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Last summer, like thousands of children during the school holidays, three little girls in Southport in the North of England joined their friends to attend a dance school.
But six-year-old Bebe King, seven-year-old Elsie Dot Stancombe, and nine-year-old Alice da Silva Aguiar never came home.
They were brutally attacked when a knifeman went on the rampage. Many others were stabbed and injured that day but Bebe, Elsie and Alice lost their lives.
The man accused of their murders is 18 year old Axel Rudakubana. He goes on trial next week. Caroline and Liz will be covering the case.
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you an exclusive interview with a former military intelligence officer who appeared as an expert witness in the trial of Daniel Khalife. Dr Frank Ledwidge has years of experience working in human intelligence and has detailed knowledge of the Iranian intelligence apparatus that Daniel Khalife has now been convicted of assisting while he was a serving soldier.
Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy
Editor: Chelsey Moore
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the verdicts in the trial of Daniel Khalife after he was found guilty of spying for Iran and gathering the personal details of soldiers, but not guilty of perpetrating a bomb hoax. The episode features an exclusive interview with Commander Dominic Murphy of the Metropolitan Police about Daniel Khalife's audacious escape from prison and the investigation into his espionage.
Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy
Editor: Chelsey Moore
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the closing speeches of the prosecution and defence, as the jury in the trial of Daniel Khalife retired to consider their verdicts.
Prosecutor Mark Heywood KC claimed Daniel Khalife endangered national security with his one-man spying mission, but Gul Nawaz Hussain KC, for the defence, told jurors that the only person he hurt was himself.
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the end of Daniel Khalife’s cross-examination by the prosecution in which he strenuously denied that he wanted help from agents of Iran after he escaped from prison. The episode also features the evidence of a defence expert who said the supposedly sensitive documents Daniel Khalife had been passing to the Iranians would have been effectively useless to them.
Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy
Editor: Chelsey Moore
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini
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In this episode Caroline and Jack have the moment Daniel Khalife changed his plea to Guilty and admitted escaping from Wandsworth Prison strapped under a food delivery van.
He was cross examined in the witness box by the prosecutor Mark Heywood about the spying charges he still denies. He said he was a patriot and did not deserve to be sent to Belmarsh Prison.
He admitted he had made mistakes, and he had told lies but he wasn't a terrorist.
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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy
Editor: Isabelle Bougeard
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Executive Producer: Lucy Vallance
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A quick Trial Update from Caroline and Jack after Daniel Khalife's three days in the witness box.
These short bonus episodes won't replace our usual longer episodes which will drop into your feeds as usual, they're just bite-sized updates from court.
In this one Daniel Khalife says during his time as a "double agent" he was acting like a mad man at times - thinking he could be James Bond. He also denies that the Iranians had anything to do with his prison break.
Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy
Editor: Chelsey Moore
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini
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In this episode Caroline and Jack have Daniel Khalife's evidence about why he escaped from Wandsworth Prison - he said it was so he would be classified as a high-risk prisoner and better protected from some of the most serious offenders.
During his evidence to the jury at Woolwich Crown Court he said he used kitchen trousers which he clipped to the underside of a food delivery lorry to create an escape sling. He was then on the run for three days.
He also said he tried on several occasions to tell MI5 and MI6 that he was acting as a double agent by sending worthless information to Iran - but he was then arrested.
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Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy are back with the very latest from Woolwich Crown Court as Daniel Khalife himself takes to the stand.
In this episode we bring you Khalife’s testimony. We hear about his parents, his upbringing, the reasons he joined the military and the justification for some of his actions that brought him to court. We hear how he used Wikileaks and the CIA website to create fake documents to pass to Iranian agents. Daniel Khalife claims this was to further Britain’s national interests and to expose Iran’s intelligence officers working within the UK.
Welcome to Episode 6: Wild Goose Chase
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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy
Editor: Isabelle Bougeard
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Executive Producer: Lucy Vallance
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Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy are back with the very latest from Woolwich Crown Court in The Trial of Daniel Khalife.
In this episode we bring you the details of Khalife’s alleged escape. We hear how he clung to the bottom of a food lorry which prison guards allowed to leave HMP Wandsworth despite knowing a prisoner was missing. The man-hunt that ensued was one of the most
high-profile and expansive in recent history. In police interviews, Khalife expresses his fears he has ‘pissed off’ the whole country as the search disrupts international travel but adds that turning himself in would have been ‘boring’.
Welcome to Episode 5: The Escape
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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy
Editor: Chelsey Moore
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Executive Producer: Lucy Vallance
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In light of the Not Guilty verdict for firearms officer Martyn Blake, join us for
the final episode of this series as we discuss the fallout of this landmark
case. This includes today's announcement from the Home Secretary that there will
now be a presumption of anonymity for all firearms officers facing trial over
shooting in the course of duty up to the point of conviction.
Mark Williams, Chief Executive of the Police Firearms Officers Association talks to
Caroline and George about how important this will be for protecting officers who discharge guns in the course of duty in the future and the impact of the trial on Martyn Blake, other firearms officers and their families.
Welcome to Episode 7: What Now?
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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and George Odling
Guest: Mark Williams
Editor: Chelsey Moore
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Executive Producer: Lucy Vallance
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The jury have returned a Not Guilty verdict for firearms officer Martyn Blake. But what of Chris Kaba, the man he shot? In this episode we delve into the 24 year old’s criminal past which we weren't allowed to report during the trial.
Kaba was a member of one of South London’s most notorious and dangerous county lines drug gangs. His convictions date to when he was just 13 years old. Had he not died from the bullet fired by Martyn Blake he would have been standing trial for attempted murder himself for a shooting in a nightclub in Hackney.
Rebecca Camber, the Daily Mail’s Crime and Security Editor joins Caroline to unpack the details.
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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham
Guest: Rebecca Camber
Editor: Chelsey Moore
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Executive Producer: Lucy Vallance
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Sgt Martyn Blake of the Metropolitan Police has been found Not Guilty of the murder of Chris Kaba. Join Caroline Cheetham and George Odling with the very latest from The Old Bailey as the jury reach their verdict in this historic case.
In September of 2022, a 24 year old was shot through his car windscreen by a Metropolitan Police firearms officer. Chris Kaba died in hospital that night and Martyn Blake was put on trial for his murder. The CPS’s decision to prosecute led to over 300 officers handing in their gun permits.
In this episode we chart the jury’s path to returning the not guilty verdict and speak to former Chief Crown Prosecutor Nazir Afzal, about how decisions to charge are made.
Welcome to Episode 5: Not Guilty
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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and George Odling
Guest: Nazir Afzal
Editor: Chelsey Moore
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Executive Producer: Lucy Vallance
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Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy are back with the very latest from Woolwich Crown Court in The Trial of Daniel Khalife.
In this episode we bring you the most comprehensive account that Daniel Khalife has provided for his actions so far. He explains his plans to mount his own intelligence operation after being told his Iranian heritage would be a barrier to him ever obtaining the security clearance needed for his dream army roles. We also hear more about the kinds of documents he is accused of leaking and the moment he is caught by a police officer three days after his alleged escape from HMP Wandsworth.
Welcome to Episode 4: “They let a teenager fool them”
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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy
Editor: Chelsey Moore
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Executive Producer: Lucy Vallance
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Join Caroline Cheetham and George Odling bringing you the very latest from The Trial of Officer Blake as it nears its conclusion.
In this episode we hear the words Martyn Blake used to describe the chaotic events leading up to the gunshot that caused Chris Kaba's death. He answers questions on whether his intention was to kill and whether he was aware of this as a possible outcome. We then bring you the key moments from the closing statements made by the prosecution and defence barristers, Tom Little KC and Patrick Gibbs KC.
Welcome to Episode 4: “He’s not RoboCop”
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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and George Odling
Editor: Izzy Bougeard
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Executive Producer: Lucy Vallance
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Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy are back with the very latest from The Trial of Daniel Khalife at Woolwich Crown Court.
In this episode we hear how Daniel Khalife was advised his bright prospects on his army unit would be restricted by his Iranian heritage. We bring you the voicenotes he exchanged with his so-called Iranian handlers and discuss his multiple attempts at communications with MI5 and MI6 shortly before his arrest in 2022.
Welcome to Episode 3: 'Wiffle Waffle'
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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy
Voice Actors: Sebastian Birtles, Alfie Mulligan, Thomas Broadley, Rhys Hanson
Editor: Izzy Bougeard
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Executive Producer: Lucy Vallance
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Caroline Cheetham and George Odling are back with the very latest from The Trial of Officer Blake.
In September of 2022, a 24-year-old, father-to-be, was shot through his car windscreen by a Metropolitan Police firearms officer. Chris Kaba died in hospital that night and Martyn Blake now stands trial for murder. The CPS’s decision to prosecute led to over 300 officers handing in their gun permits.
In this episode we hear the words of Martyn Blake as he takes to the stand and defends his decision to fire the lethal shot.
Welcome to Episode 3: ‘Why I Pulled the Trigger’
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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and George Odling
Editor: Izzy Bougeard
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Executive Producer: Lucy Vallance
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Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy are back with the very latest from Woolwich Crown Court in The Trial of Daniel Khalife.
In this episode we hear about the moment Daniel Khalife allegedly strapped himself to the underside of a food truck to break out of prison. The prosecution continue their arguments that he was actively engaged in securing confidential information and supplying this to Iran, an ‘enemy state’. We learn more about Khalife’s ambitions to work in military intelligence, his interaction with Iranian agents and his contact with both MI5 and MI6.
Welcome to Episode 2: The 'Triple Agent'
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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy
Editor: Izzy Bougeard
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Executive Producer: Lucy Vallance
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A prisoner on the run. A four-day man-hunt. Espionage, foreign agents and enemy states…The Trial is back with a new series… In September of 2023, Daniel Khalife was discovered riding a bike along a north London canal by a plain clothed police officer after allegedly breaking out of HMP Wandsworth. He was found after four days of an intense nation-wide search led by the Metropolitan Police. The 23-year-old, former soldier is appearing at Woolwich Crown Court charged not only with this escape but also for exploiting his position in the British Army to pass intelligence to an “enemy state” - Iran. Join Caroline Cheetham and Jack Hardy for our very first episode, following day one in court of The Trial of Daniel Khalife. Follow us on instagram @thetrialpodEmail us [email protected]Whatsapp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’) Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Jack HardyEditor: Chelsey MooreCreative Director: Caroline CheethamExecutive Producer: Lucy Vallance A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular.
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In this episode Caroline and George hear evidence from the firearms officers who were on duty on the night of the shooting.
One told the jury he almost fired the shot himself because he was in fear for his life as the Audi revved its engine. Another said Martyn Blake was not angry or frustrated as has been alleged by the prosecution, and another said there were concerns there might be a shotgun inside the car.
The prosecution say Martyn Blake exaggerated the threat level and should not have fired the shot which hit Chris Kaba in the head.
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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and George Odling
Editor: Alex Graham
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Executive Producer: Lucy Vallance
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In the first episode of the Trial of Officer Blake, Caroline and George have the opening to the case at the Old Bailey, and the prosecutor's claims that firearms office Martyn Blake shot Chris Kaba in the head without justification.
We hear that Chris Kaba had been trying to escape from police in his Audi Q8, but that he posed no threat when he was shot. The car was stationary and he had his hands on the steering wheel.
He died from a single gunshot and Martyn Blake, whose codename was NX121, denies the charge of murder.
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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and George Odling
Editor: Alex Graham
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Executive Producer: Lucy Vallance
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The following is a sample of our brand new series 'The Trial of Erin Patterson'.
To listen to the full episode, search for 'The Trial of Erin Patterson' wherever you get your podcasts.
Australian mother-of-two, Erin Patterson, has been charged with three counts of murder and five counts of attempted murder after allegedly serving poisonous mushrooms to her ex husband’s family members.
In July of 2023, Gail Patterson, Don Patterson and Heather Wilkinson all died, and Ian Wilkinson was left fighting for life after eating Beef Wellington served at a family lunch.
Four counts of attempting to murder her former husband from preceding years have also been added to the charge sheet.
In this episode broadcast journalist Caroline Cheetham and Melbourne based correspondent, Wayne Flowers discuss the case and the tight reporting restrictions in place in the run up to the trial which is set for 28th April 2025.
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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Wayne Flower
Guest: Paul Svilans
Editor: Chelsey Moore
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Executive Producer: Lucy Vallance
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This is a 10 minute preview of Addressing the Doubters, the first episode of The Trial of Lucy Letby: The Inquiry.
To listen to the full episode search “The Trial of Lucy Letby: The Inquiry”
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In this final episode of the season, Caroline, Jack and Katie discuss the sentencing of Gavin Plumb, who was given three life sentences for his plot to kidnap, rape and kill Holly Willoughby.
We also hear that the impact on her has been “catastrophic” and “life changing”. Plus Criminologist Professor David Wilson on how fantasy was reality for Gavin Plumb.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports.
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In this episode, Jack and Katie bring you an exclusive interview with one of the past victims of Gavin Plumb, who is speaking publicly about her ordeal for the first time following his conviction for plotting to kidnap, rape and murder the TV presenter Holly Willoughby.
Emma Ashby was just 16 and working at Woolworths when Gavin Plumb - who was her colleague - pulled a knife and ordered her to go into a storeroom, where he tried to bind her hands. Fortunately, she was able to escape.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports.
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In this episode, Katie and Jack bring you the verdicts in the trial of Gavin Plumb. He has been found guilty of plotting to kidnap, rape and murder the TV presenter Holly Willoughby.
The episode will reflect on the verdict and bring you new details about the case that have never been reported before.
Gavin Plumb denies soliciting murder, encouraging or assisting the commission of kidnap and encouraging or assisting the commission of rape.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports.
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In this episode, Jack and Katie bring you the latest from the trial of Gavin Plumb as the jury were sent out to deliberate whether he is guilty of plotting to kidnap, rape and murder the TV presenter Holly Willoughby.
It features the closing speeches of both the defence and prosecution, which has left the jury to decide whether Gavin Plumb genuinely intended to execute his plot, or whether it was all just fantasy.
Gavin Plumb denies soliciting murder, encouraging or assisting the commission of kidnap and encouraging or assisting the commission of rape.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports.
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In this episode Caroline and Katie bring you the words of Gavin Plumb as he gave evidence in the witness box. He told the jury his attempts to kidnap women in the past had been a cry for help, and his “plot” to kidnap Holly Willoughby was nothing more than online chat.
We also have the dramatic moment police broke down his door to arrest him.
Gavin Plumb denies soliciting murder, encouraging or assisting the commission of kidnap and encouraging or assisting the commission of rape.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports.
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In this episode Caroline and Katie bring you some of the many messages and voice notes Gavin Plumb exchanged with people online as he allegedly plotted to assemble a crew to kidnap, rape and kill the TV presenter Holly Willoughby.
His alleged plan unravelled, the jury’s been told, when one of the people he started messaging was an undercover US agent.
Gavin Plumb denies soliciting murder, encouraging or assisting the commission of kidnap and encouraging or asssiting the commission of rape.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports.
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In this episode Katie Hind and Jack Hardy bring you the start of the case of a security guard’s alleged plot to kidnap, rape and kill the TV presenter Holly Willoughby.
Gavin Plumb allegedly assembled a kidnap kit of cable ties, rope and chloroform, and tried to find a “crew” in chat groups online to help him.
The jury’s been told he was obsessed with Holly Willoughby and had more than 10,000 pictures of her on his phone.
He was caught because one of the men he tried to recruit was an undercover US agent.
Gavin Plumb denies soliciting murder, encouraging or assisting the commission of kidnap and encouraging or asssiting the commission of rape.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports.
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the conclusion to the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon - which has ended with the jury being discharged.
They discuss what this means for the defendants and speak to media law expert David Banks about what happens next.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
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Please follow 'The Trial of Lucy Letby' wherever you get your podcasts and give us a follow.
In this episode Caroline and Liz are back at Manchester Crown Court as neo-natal nurse Lucy Letby returns to the dock. This time she is facing one charge – the attempted murder of a very premature baby girl, known as Baby K.
Today, as the trial got underway, the jury were told she was caught “virtually red handed” by a consultant as she tried to dislodge the breathing tube of Baby K in an attempt to kill her. She then allegedly dislodged the tube twice more to cover her tracks.
The jury were told Lucy Letby is a convicted baby killer and her previous convictions were relevant to the charge she now faces.
She denies the charge and her defence barrister told the court Baby K was so premature that she was clinically fragile.
Both the prosecution and the defence barristers told the jury they ultimately had to decide if they believed the consultant who claims he caught her in the act.
Follow the trial's evidence just as the jury do, with twice-weekly reports from Daily Mail northern correspondent Liz Hull and broadcast journalist Caroline Cheetham.
In this podcast, they bring you far more detail about what the jury heard, examine key moments of the trial, and conduct exclusive interviews with investigative detectives, victims, and experts.
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the latest from the Old Bailey where the jury are continuing to consider their verdicts in the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon. It will also feature an interview with court reporter Paul Cheston about the decades he spent working at arguably the world’s most famous court: The Old Bailey.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
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A very special, week-long true crime event is coming on Monday 3rd June. Nearly 50 years after the high society murder that captivated the world, we present... The Trial of Lord Lucan.
Using exclusive, never before seen documents and mesmerising testimony, presenters Caroline Cheetham and Stephen Wright, along with some of the world's most revered legal minds, will take part in a week long audio event to determine Lucan's fate... and YOU are the jury.
To listen, you'll need to head to a brand new feed we've created especially for the series. You can also find it by searching 'The Trial of Lord Lucan' in your favourite podcast app. To follow along and get involved in this innovative True Crime event, head to dailymail.co.uk/lucan.
In the first episode, Caroline and Stephen visit the original crime scene in Belgravia, central London and look at the background to this high society murder which scandalised the UK in the 1970s and captivated the world to this day. The duo also meet our two real-life, eminent barristers who will argue the case in our week-long event: Max Hardy, who is acting as ‘prosecutor’ & Edward Henry KC, who is ‘defending’ Lucan.
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In this episode Caroline and Jack explore why juries serving on trials are not given more support. It's because a new pilot project to offer counselling to juries is being launched in 15 parts of the country. We'll be talking to the two psychologists whose research into the impact on juries of serving on a trial, is the driving force for this.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode Caroline and Jack explore why juries serving on trials are not given more support. It's because a new pilot project to offer counselling to juries is being launched in 15 parts of the country. We'll be talking to the two psychologists whose research into the impact on juries of serving on a trial, is the driving force for this.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode Caroline and Jack bring you the moment the Judge, Mark Lucraft KC sent the jury out to start their deliberations. After more than three months of hearing evidence the decisions are now up to them. Before he did this he reminded the jury of the key evidence in the case and what they need to consider during their deliberations. Legal expert David Banks also walks us through why this is now the most sensitive part of the trial process.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode Caroline and Jack bring you the Judge, Mark Lucraft KC.
His job now, at the end of this trial, is to sum up this case, to remind the jury of the evidence they've heard. Today he reminded them what Constance Marten had told them as she spent several days in the witness box. He also referred to the evidence from the two pathologists who had told them Victoria's body was so decomposed they could not conclude how she died.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the closing speech of Constance Marten's barrister, Francis Fitzgibbon KC, as he urged jurors to acquit her of the killing of her baby, Victoria. He told the Old Bailey 'the evidence isn't there' to convict the aristocrat and her partner Mark Gordon over Victoria's death and accused the prosecution of describing the baby as 'it' which, he said, was 'jarring and dehumanising'. The episode will also feature his suggestion that jurors should ignore the 'nasty bit of class prejudice' used by the prosecution to 'smear' her.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the defence closing speech made on behalf of Mark Gordon by John Femi-Ola KC. He describes Constance Marten as a 'lioness' protecting her cubs and said the death of Baby Victoria was a 'tragic accident'. The episode also features the end of prosecutor Tom Little KC's closing speech.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the closing speech of the Prosecutor Tom Little KC. He told the jury Constance Marten had told “big fat lies” in her defence. Lies, he said, which “fell like confetti from her lips”. And he said despite Mark Gordon “grandstanding” to police about his “rights” he had refused to give evidence when the moment arrived. He said Victoria was caught in the middle of her parents toxic relationship, she was freezing cold, and she never stood a chance.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you more of the tense exchange between Professor Peter Fleming and Tom Little KC. The court has also been told that Constance Marten’s parents did hire private investigators to try to track her down, but they said this was not when she was on the run with baby Victoria.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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Launching Friday 19th April, Vogue Williams hosts The Apple and The Tree, a brand new podcast where a parent and their adult child get to ask each other about the parts of their shared history they’ve always wanted to know more about, but never given themselves the time to do so. These are deep, intimate and revealing conversations that move through love, grief, shame, sexuality, religion, addiction, identity and so much more.
Because these shows were recorded in our guest’s own homes, it’s like you’ve been invited in to sit alongside them and hear exactly how their lives have unfurled. At the end of each episode, Vogue and the guests unpack what’s been shared to discover if the apple really does fall far from the tree.
Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you a key witness in the defence case of Constance Marten - an expert who investigates the unexpected death of babies. Prof Peter Fleming told the court he thought Constance Marten’s account was ‘extraordinarily consistent’ and cast doubt on how the prosecution say Baby Victoria died.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the final day of Constance Marten’s evidence from the witness box as she told jurors she had wanted to get an autopsy for her baby in the hope she would find the death wasn’t her fault. The episode also features her claim that she had neglected herself to the point of exhaustion in trying to look after Baby Victoria - and it was this exhaustion that ultimately led her to fall asleep with the child in her arms, she said.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack will bring you the latest from the evidence of Constance Marten, as she defended her decision to take her newborn baby into a tent in the middle of winter - saying that 'Jesus survived in a barn'. The episode will also feature claims that a man Constance Marten said inspired her plan to flee abroad has also used his website to encourage children to invent bomb plots against social workers.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the latest from the prosecution's cross-examination of Constance Marten, in which she claims her family placed a travel ban on her by telling the court she was having children to sell illegally and that she was addicted to drugs. The episode also features her claims that she was planning to try to find a people-smuggling nanny on Gumtree to bring her newborn baby Victoria abroad.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you more from the evidence of Constance Marten as she reveals she and Mark Gordon considered taking their own lives after the death of their baby Victoria in February 2023. The episode also features the start of the cross-examination as the prosecution question Constance Marten’s decision making in the baby’s final days.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you all the latest from the first day of the evidence of Constance Marten in the witness box at the Old Bailey, where she told jurors that she was fleeing from her family as well as social services when she went on the run with Mark Gordon and their newborn baby Victoria - but denied ever carrying her in a bag-for-life. The episode will also feature a recap of Mark Gordon's defence case.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the latest evidence from the Old Bailey, where the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon heard from two pathologists about the possible ways in which Baby Victoria died while on the South Downs when the couple were on the run last year. The episode will also feature the poignant moment jurors were allowed to examine the baby gro that the infant wore for much of her short life.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
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Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the latest from the Old Bailey, where jurors were told about Constance Marten and Mark Gordon’s history with social services and why a family court decided to take their previous four children into care. The episode will also feature the evidence of an expert in paediatric health - who said a newborn baby could die within hours in the wintery conditions on the South Downs when the couple were camping with their baby in a tent last year.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode Caroline and Jack have the interview Mark Gordon gave to the detectives investigating the case. He tells them the couple discussed giving the baby up, but the following morning she had died, and even though he tried to give her CPR, it didn’t work.
He told them when Victoria died it was every parents worst dread.
We’ll also bring you the evidence that Constance Marten had over £19,000 in her bank account when the couple were on the run, but she made no cash withdrawals after January 5th, when they were staying in hotels, sleeping in taxis and living in a tent on the South Downs.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
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In this episode Caroline and Jack bring the full police interviews with Constance Marten which took place after the body of Victoria had been found. Constance Marten told detectives the couple were portrayed as villains when they were on the run, and she said the media storm made her too afraid to hand herself in. After Victoria died she said she wanted to bury her but the couple hadn’t eaten for weeks, so were too weak to dig a grave. The episode will also bring more information about why the couple’s other four children were taken into care.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack will bring you the latest from the Old Bailey, where the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon heard about the moment police finally found the body of Baby Victoria in a shed in March 2023, nearly two months after the couple allegedly went on the run with her. The episode will also feature details of their police interviews, both before and after the discovery of the baby's body. The jury saw footage of a tearful Constance Marten tell police about her baby's death.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the latest from the Old Bailey, where the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon was dramatically halted last week after an explosion under the court. The episode will also feature evidence about the final days the couple spent on the run, when they appeared to scavenge in bins for food, as well as the eyewitness account of the man who set in motion their arrest after growing suspicious of the couple outside a corner shop in Brighton. The jury also heard from the police officers who were first on the scene to arrest the couple - one of whom saw something strange stuffed inside the jacket of Constance Marten. Both defendants deny the charges against them.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
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Contact us at [email protected]
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In this special extended episode Caroline and Liz speak to Esther Ghey, the mother of Brianna. In her first in depth audio interview, Esther tells them about the moment she learned her daughter had been murdered, how she has coped with the past 12 months and how she plans to mark the anniversary of Brianna’s death on Sunday.
She also speaks passionately about her determination to make positive change for children, by campaigning for new legislation around mobile phones and social media, and improving mental resilience with mindfulness teachers in schools.
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you the dramatic bodycam footage of the moment Constance Marten and Mark Gordon are finally arrested after weeks on the run. In the footage both are asked repeatedly where the baby is, but neither give an answer.
The episode outlines the evidence from a woman who says she was awoken on two consecutive nights in her house on the edge of the South Downs by the sound of a baby crying. A few days later, she said that she saw a couple resembling Mark Gordon and Constance Marten on a coastal path near her home, as well as a blue tent nearby.
This episode also features evidence from a man whose wife gave evidence last week about an alleged sighting of Constance Marten carrying a dead child. He told the court that he and his wife returned to the park where she made the sighting so that they could carry out their own detective work. The jury were also shown CCTV of the moment Constance Marten bought some petrol from a Texaco garage on January 12 2023 - which she later told police that she had intended to use to cremate the remains of Baby Victoria. Both defendants deny the charges against them.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
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Contact us at [email protected]
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In this episode Caroline and Liz talk to Dr Carol Stott, an expert in autism, to try and answer some of your questions about the role the condition played in the trial. They bring you a longer interview with criminologist Prof David Wilson, who offers his insight into what drove Scarlett Jenkinson and Eddie Ratcliffe to kill Brianna.
And they also bring you news of a new campaign launched by Brianna’s mother, Esther Ghey, which aims to help parents control what their children are looking at online via their smartphones.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz outline all the details from a dramatic day in court as Brianna’s killers were sentenced and their names revealed for the first time.
They also discuss how sadism and Brianna’s transgender status partly motivated them Scarlett Jenkinson and Eddie Ratcliffe to kill.
And that just a few weeks ago Jenkinson finally admitted stabbing Brianna during the brutal attack.
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In this episode, Caroline and Jack bring you evidence from two sisters who said they made separate sightings of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon while they were allegedly on the run in Sussex.
Pauline Mason told jurors she walked past Marten carrying an infant in a sling.The baby, she said, was very pale - and she believed it was dead. This episode will also bring you details of the moment the newborn baby, Victoria, was first glimpsed on CCTV, as well as an unexpected discovery made by police close to where the couple fled their burning car in Bolton.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode Caroline and Jack bring you the evidence of a dog walker who told the court he knew "something wasn’t right" when he saw Constance Marten and Mark Gordon sitting on a street in Harwich in the freezing cold. Dale Gosling said he could hear a baby crying and he "couldn’t just walk away”. This episode will also bring you the words of a driver who tried to help them when their car burst into flames on a motorway. He said he now fears baby Victoria might still be alive if he'd stayed with them.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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Constance Marten & Mark Gordon went on the run in January 2023, along with their daughter Victoria, born just a few days before.
A huge manhunt resulted in them being found in Brighton, and two days after that, Victoria's body was found in a plastic bag on an allotment.
The pair have been charged with killing her - which they both deny.
In the second episode, we will give you the second half of the opening statement from prosecutor, Tom Little KC, as well as an address made to the court by John Femi-Ola KC, who is defending Mark Gordon.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
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Contact us at [email protected]
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Constance Marten & Mark Gordon went on the run in January 2023, along with their daughter Victoria, born just a few days before.
A huge manhunt resulted in them being found in Brighton, and 2 days after that, Victoria's body was found in a plastic bag on an allotment.
The pair have been charged with killing her - which they both deny.
In this opening episode, which we've split into 2 parts, we get the opening statement from prosecutor, Tom Little KC.
Warning: This podcast references court proceedings which detail the death and alleged abuse of a child in detail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode Caroline and Liz discuss why the trial judge, Mrs Justice Yip, has decided to lift reporting restrictions and allow Girl X and Boy Y to be named by the media when she sentences them for Brianna’s murder next week.
They also chat to barrister Chloe Ashley about previous cases involving child defendants and what the judge will have considered before allowing their identities to be made public for the first time.
The Trial takes listeners behind the headlines and into the courtrooms of some of the biggest criminal cases in the world.
The first series, 'The Trial of Lucy Letby' received more than 13 million downloads.
Season Two focussed on the murder of Ashling Murphy, a 23 year old teacher from Ireland.
Season Three will follow the evidence as the jury hears it in twice weekly reports from The Daily Mail's Northern Correspondent, Liz Hull, and broadcast journalist, Caroline Cheetham.
They'll take you into the courtroom to bring you the details as the evidence unfolds, to examine key moments and to carry out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp +44 7796 657 512
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Season 4 of The Trial begins Wednesday January 24th.
Constance Marten & Mark Gordon went on the run in January 2023, along with their daughter Victoria, born just a few days before.
A huge manhunt resulted in them being found in Brighton, and 2 days after that, Victoria's body was found in a plastic bag on an allotment.
The pair have been charged with killing her - which they both deny.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Jack Hardy.
They’ll take you into London's Old Bailey, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
This is a Daily Mail Production
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In this episode Caroline and Liz talk to Professor Alan Woodward, an expert on computer science and cyber security, at the University of Surrey.
He explains how Girl X was able to access torture and murder sites online and why the dark web is so difficult to police.
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In today’s episode Liz and Caroline discuss what’s going to happen when Brianna’s killers are sentenced, and their names are revealed to the public for the first time.
They also talk more to Mike Evans, the head of crime at Cheshire police, who investigated the murder and was one of the first officers on the scene.
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Two high school pupils have been found guilty of murdering 16 year old Brianna Ghey.
The jury of seven men and five women took just 4 hours and 40 minutes to decide that the boy and girl - who cannot currently be named because of their ages - killed Brianna.
Even though it was impossible to be sure who had inflicted the final stab wound that ended her life, the jury found them to be jointly responsible.
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In today’s episode we’ll hear the prosecutor insist that ‘both defendants played a part in the murder of Brianna’.
But we’ll also hear Girl C’s barrister say that she couldn’t be responsible because there was ‘not even so much as a microscopic droplet of blood’ found on her clothes.
Meanwhile, Boy Y’s barrister has argued he was just an ‘extra’ in the tragic murder, which Gril X orchestrated, directed and carried out.
Both defendants deny murder
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In today’s episode we’ll explain that Boy Y gave his evidence to the court by typing his answers because he is unable to speak.
How he told the jury that Girl X was ‘giddy’ before they met Brianna on the day she died.
And how he said he wanted to explain to police that Girl X had used his hunting knife to kill Brianna but instead lied because he was ‘scared’ officers would ‘tell him off.’
The Trial takes listeners behind the headlines and into the courtrooms of some of the biggest criminal cases in the world.
The first series, 'The Trial of Lucy Letby' received more than 13 million downloads.
Season Two focussed on the murder of Ashling Murphy, a 23 year old teacher from Ireland.
Season Three will follow the evidence as the jury hears it in twice weekly reports from The Daily Mail's Northern Correspondent, Liz Hull, and broadcast journalist, Caroline Cheetham.
They'll take you into the courtroom to bring you the details as the evidence unfolds, to examine key moments and to carry out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp +44 7796 657 512
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In today’s episode we will hear what Girl X says happened when Brianna was killed.
We’ll hear Girl X admit that the idea of stabbing Brianna was fun.
And that she lied to Police and sent a message to Brianna, after she knew she was dead, as a cover.
The Trial takes listeners behind the headlines and into the courtrooms of some of the biggest criminal cases in the world.
The first series, 'The Trial of Lucy Letby' received more than 13 million downloads.
Season Two focussed on the murder of Ashling Murphy, a 23 year old teacher from Ireland.
Season Three will follow the evidence as the jury hears it in twice weekly reports from The Daily Mail's Northern Correspondent, Liz Hull, and broadcast journalist, Caroline Cheetham.
They'll take you into the courtroom to bring you the details as the evidence unfolds, to examine key moments and to carry out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp +44 7796 657 512
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Today we’ll hear that Boy Y thought Girl X’s alleged plan to kill Brianna was a joke - but that it went too far.
We’ll also explain what the Police found when they searched their bedrooms.
And how notes allegedly written by Girl X outlined the characteristics of serial killers. Both deny the murder.
The Trial takes listeners behind the headlines and into the courtrooms of some of the biggest criminal cases in the world.
The first series, 'The Trial of Lucy Letby' received more than 13 million downloads. Season Two focussed on the murder of Ashling Murphy, a 23 year old teacher from Ireland. Season Three will follow the evidence as the jury hears it in twice weekly reports from The Daily Mail's Northern Correspondent, Liz Hull, and broadcast journalist, Caroline Cheetham.
They'll take you into the courtroom to bring you the details as the evidence unfolds, to examine key moments and to carry out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp +44 7796 657 512
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Today we’ll hear about the moment the two teenagers were arrested on suspicion of Brianna’s murder.
We’ll also hear that Girl X denied being involved in the alleged attack on Brianna and that she whatsapp’d Boy Y to “make sure the story adds up.
And we’ll explain that Boy Y told police he saw Girl X stab Brianna in the back. Both defendants deny murder.
The Trial takes listeners behind the headlines and into the courtrooms of some of the biggest criminal cases in the world.
The first series, 'The Trial of Lucy Letby' received more than 13 million downloads.
Season Two focussed on the murder of Ashling Murphy, a 23 year old teacher from Ireland. Season Three will follow the evidence as the jury hears it in twice weekly reports from The Daily Mail's Northern Correspondent, Liz Hull, and broadcast journalist, Caroline Cheetham.
They'll take you into the courtroom to bring you the details as the evidence unfolds, to examine key moments and to carry out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp +44 7796 657 512
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Today we'll hear evidence that Girl X allegedly had a 'hit list' of five children she wanted to kill.
We'll hear how messages exchanged between the two teenagers accused of Brianna's murder show Boy Y was reluctant to do it on a school night because he wanted to revise.
And we'll hear of the harrowing testimony from the dog walker who found Brianna's body shortly after the attack.
Both defendants deny murder.
The Trial takes listeners behind the headlines and into the courtrooms of some of the biggest criminal cases in the world.
The first series, 'The Trial of Lucy Letby' received more than 13 million downloads. Season Two focussed on the murder of Ashling Murphy, a 23 year old teacher from Ireland.
Season Three will follow the evidence as the jury hears it in twice weekly reports from The Daily Mail's Northern Correspondent, Liz Hull, and broadcast journalist, Caroline Cheetham.
They'll take you into the courtroom to bring you the detail as the evidence unfolds, to examine key moments and to carry out exclusive interviews with detective, victims and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp +44 7796 657 512
This is a Daily Mail Production. Seriously Popular.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz examine the final part of the prosecution opening of their case as it was presented to the court.
They reveal how the jury has been told that the two teenagers accused of her murder had allegedly planned to kill her two weeks earlier but that Brianna had failed to show up.
The court has also heard how a handwritten 'murder plan' and clothing stained in Brianna's blood were discovered at their homes following their arrest.
And the first people to come across Brianna's body after she had been stabbed have told of their horror, as the trial moves into hearing evidence from the witnesses.
The Trial takes listeners behind the headlines and into the courtrooms of some of the biggest trials in the world.
The first series ‘The Trial of Lucy Letby’ was a global hit, with more than 13 million downloads, while season two focused on the murder of Ashling Murphy, a 23-year-old teacher from Ireland.
Its third season follows the tragic case of Brianna Ghey, a 16-year-old transgender girl killed in Warrington, England.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from The Daily Mail’s Northern Correspondent Liz Hull and broadcast journalist Caroline Cheetham.
They’ll take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz examine the opening of the prosecution case as it was presented to the court.
They reveal how the jury heard that Brianna was stabbed 28 times before she died.
And how the two teenagers accused of Brianna’s murder were preoccupied with violence and torture and allegedly plotted to kill up to five different people in the days before her death.
The Trial...takes listeners behind the headlines and into the courtrooms of some of the biggest trials in the world.
The first series ‘The Trial of Lucy Letby’ was a global hit, with more than 13 million downloads, while season two focused on the murder of Ashling Murphy, a 23-year-old teacher from Ireland.
Its third season follows the tragic case of Brianna Ghey, a 16-year-old transgender girl killed in Warrington, England.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from The Daily Mail’s Northern Correspondent Liz Hull and broadcast journalist Caroline Cheetham.
They’ll take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
"The Trial..." takes listeners behind the headlines and into the courtroom of some of the biggest trials in the world.
Our first series "The Trial of Lucy Letby" was a worldwide hit, with over 13million downloads, while season 2 focused on the murder of Ashling Murphy, a 23 year old teacher from Ireland.
It’s third season covers the trial of the killing of Brianna Ghey, a 16 year old transgender girl from Warrington, England.
Follow the trial's evidence just as the jury did, with twice-weekly reports from The Daily Mail’s Northern Correspondent Liz Hull and broadcast journalist Caroline Cheetham.
In this podcast, they bring you far more detail about what the jury heard, examine key moments of the trial, and conduct exclusive interviews with investigative detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 start your messagfe with the word 'Trial'
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In this episode, Caroline and Nicola bring you the emotional victim impact statements of Ashling Murphy's partner, sister, and mother. These statements were read in court to Jozef Puska as he was sentenced to life in prison for her murder.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Nicola Byrne.
They’ll take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In today's episode, Caroline and Nicola look ahead to tomorrow's sentencing hearing for Jozef Puska who was found guilty of Ashling Murphy's murder last Thursday. They speak to Defence Barrister Eimear Delargy, who sheds some light on how sentencing in Ireland works and what we can expect tomorrow.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Nicola Byrne.
They’ll take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode Caroline and Nicola chat to Mary McDermott from Safe Ireland about what needs to be done now, in the wake of the conviction of Jozef Puska for Ashling’s murder, to enable more women to feel safe - not just walking the streets, but in their homes too.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Nicola Byrne.
They’ll take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode Caroline and Nicola explain more about Jozef Puska’s defence, and how he argued crucial CCTV evidence in the case should be thrown out because it breached his right to privacy. We’ll also hear from Forensic Psychologist Dr. Ciara Stanton about his possible motivation for the attack on Ashling.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Nicola Byrne.
They’ll take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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Today, the jury, after just hours of deliberation, found Jozef Puska guilty of the murder of Ashling Murphy. In this episode, Caroline and Nicola talk about Ashling, what her death means, what this verdict means and what kind of a light this trial has shone on the legal system.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Nicola Byrne.
They’ll take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
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In this episode Caroline and Nicola discuss Justice Tony Hunt’s charge to the Jury before he sent them out to begin deliberating their verdict at 15.34 today. In a five hour address to the nine man, three women panel, he broke down the evidence into five parts, confession, DNA, eye witnesses, lies and inferences. As part of this, he read a transcript of Jenna Stack’s evidence recounting how she saw Puska crouched over Ashling in a ditch by the Grand Canal. He also read parts of Jozef Puska’s testimony when he said he too had been attacked and he was trying to save Ashling.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Nicola Byrne.
They’ll take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
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Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode Caroline and Nicola go over the closing speeches from the Prosecution and from the Defence.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Nicola Byrne.
They’ll take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
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Contact us at [email protected]
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In this episode Caroline and Nicola discuss the evidence of Jozef Puska who took the stand in his own defence on Thursday. His cross examination by Anne Marie Lawlor concluded on Friday afternoon when she accused him of concocting a pack of lies for the jury, a charge which Puska denied.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Nicola Byrne.
They’ll take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
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Contact us at [email protected]
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In this episode we hear about expert medical evidence which says that Jozef Puska was not under the influence of any drugs when he made his alleged confession on 14 January, two days after Ashling was killed. Emeritus Professor Michael Ryan of University College Dublin also pointed out that the abdominal surgery which Puska underwent on the previous day was not ‘major surgery’ but was a keyhole diagnostic procedure.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Nicola Byrne.
They’ll take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
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Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this episode, Caroline and Nicola go over what the court heard from witnesses that say Josef Puzka allegedly admitted from his hospital bed to killing Ashling Murphy.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Nicola Byrne.
They’ll take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
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In this episode, Caroline and Nicola bring you the evidence the court heard about data on Ashling’s fitbit recorded the moment she was allegedly attacked. We also hear about a woman who told the court that Josef Puzka followed her to the canal minutes before he allegedly attacked and killed Ashling Murphy.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Nicola Byrne.
They’ll take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
Leave a comment on Spotify or even send us a voice note on WhatsApp - +447796657512 (start your message with 'Trial')
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In this second episode of The Trial, Ashling Murphy, Caroline and Nicola discuss the testimony of Jenna Stack who came across Jozef Puska and Ashling Murphy in the ditch at Grand Canal way, Tullamore minutes before she died. They also recap a harrowing week for the Murphy family which included hearing post mortem evidence that Ashling’s voice box was cut during an attack which saw her receive 11 stab wounds which ultimately caused her death.
The jury also heard evidence this week from garda Tom Dunne who took the 999 call at Tullamore Garda station and was the first first policeman at the scene - he and his colleague performed CPR on Ashling for at least ten minutes but to no avail.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Nicola Byrne.
They’ll take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
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Contact us at [email protected]
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In this first episode of The Trial, Ashling Murphy, Caroline and Nicola discuss the opening statement of prosecuting counsel Anne Marie Lawlor who outlined the State’s case against Jozef Puska, and how two days after her death, he confessed, telling detectives “I’m the murderer”.
The jury was also told there was just a 1 in 14,000 chance that DNA found under the fingernails of Ashling didn’t belong to Puska and that extensive CCTV evidence taken on the day of the murder saw him trailing two other women on his bicycle.
Follow the evidence as the jury hears it, in twice-weekly reports from broadcaster and journalist Caroline Cheetham, along with news reporter Nicola Byrne.
They’ll take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims, and experts.
Follow us on X @thetrialpodcast
Contact us at [email protected]
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From the team that brought you The Trial of Lucy Letby, this is The Trial: Ashling Murphy.
Ashling Murphy was a 23yr old primary school teacher who was killed whilst jogging near Tullamore, County Offaly, Ireland.
Her death stunned the nation.
Jozef Puška stands trial in Dublin Central Criminal Court, accused of her murder.
Listen to the evidence and hear the details behind the headlines every Tuesday & Friday, from October 17th.
Presented by Nicola Byrne, Deputy News Editor for Mail on Sunday Ireland and Broadcast Journalist Caroline Cheetham.
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In this episode, Caroline and Liz sign off for the time being. So they’re handing over to you and will try to answer some of the questions you’ve been asking throughout the trial. Many of these questions couldn't be addressed earlier due to legal restrictions, and they still can’t answer everything, but they’ll shed some light on some of the things you’ve wanted to know.
They also bring up an update from the steps of Manchester Crown Court about a development in the trial against Lucy Letby.
Thanks for listening and we’ll be back with any updates.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz chat to eminent barrister Mary Prior KC, who explains just how defendants appeal their convictions following the announcement that Lucy Letby plans to contest the jury’s verdicts in her case.
We also have an exclusive interview with the prosecution’s main expert witness Dr Dewi Evans, who tells us why he fears Lucy Letby may have killed or harmed more babies in her care.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz bring together people from the public gallery who followed this trial for a chat about how this case has affected them.
And we’ll share some of last night’s candlelit vigil for the babies at Chester Cathedral.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz chat to expert legal commentator, Joshua Rozenberg KC, who explains just why Lady Justice Thirlwall is the perfect judge to chair the public inquiry into Lucy Letby’s crimes, and Tamlin Bolton, a senior lawyer with Switalskis Solicitors, who is representing several of the victims’ families.
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In this episode, Caroline and Liz speak to Dr. Fiona MacRae, an anaesthetist at the Countess of Chester Hospital for over 25 years including the time that Lucy Letby was on the neonatal unit. Dr. MacRae gives us a unique insight into the hospital culture that, she says, could have facilitated an environment that allowed Lucy Letby to get away with murder for as long as she did.
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In this episode the parents of a premature baby boy cared for by Lucy Letby tell Liz of their fear that he may have been harmed by her. They also recall she said he was her “favourite” and more than once she removed the tubes helping him to breath to take pictures of him.
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In this episode, Caroline and Liz hear from the parents of twin boys, Baby L and Baby M. While today they are happy healthy seven year olds, the parents will always be haunted by the fact that Lucy Letby very nearly killed their babies.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz speak to Dr John Gibbs, one of the consultants who repeatedly tried to blow the whistle on Lucy Letby. He speaks of his regret that hospital managers didn’t listen or go to police sooner.
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Lucy Letby abused the trust not only of the babies and their parents, but also of her nursing colleagues. In this episode Caroline and Liz chat to the deputy senior investigating officer, DCI Nicola Evans, about how she was able to manipulate everyone around her to get away with murder for so long.
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Until she entered the witness box back at the start of May, there were few who really knew what Lucy Letby was like. But one person knew better than most. Detective Sergeant Danielle Stonier spent over 20 hours interviewing Lucy Letby when she was arrested. In this exclusive interview with the detective, Caroline and Liz ask what it was like to question one of the worst murderers in modern times.
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Lucy Letby was killing in plain sight. But during the trial we heard little about how she was caught. Caroline and Liz sit down with Detective Superintendent Paul Hughes to talk to him about how this case landed on his desk.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz bring you details of what happened in court when Lucy Letby was handed a whole life order.
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Caroline and Liz explore who exactly is Lucy Letby? And examine how this ordinary ‘girl next door’ went on to become the worst serial child killer in modern times.
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Today nurse Lucy Letby has been found guilty of murdering and attempting to murder babies in her care. Caroline and Liz go over the verdicts and give you all the details from the steps of Manchester Crown Court.
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This week, while we all wait for the jury verdict, Caroline and Liz speak with Tristan Kirk, the courts correspondent for the Evening Standard in London.
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As we continue to wait for the jury to reach their verdicts, Caroline and Liz have pulled together more of the most memorable moments from their guest interviews.
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This week, while we all wait for the jury verdict, Caroline and Liz have put together some of the most memorable moments of their guest interviews.
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This week, while we all wait for the jury verdict, Caroline and Liz speak with Mike Dodd, a former reporter and long-time legal advisor for the Press Association. "If the public don't know what's going on in the courts, they've got no idea whether justice is actually being administered or whether the system is working."
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This week, while we all wait for the jury verdict, Caroline and Liz speak with Polly Rippon – a former court reporter with 20 years' experience. In this interview, we hear why judges are eager to see more reporters in their courtrooms.
Polly has told her court reporting students, “You might be in court and feel almost as if you’re intruding a bit into someone’s life. But actually you have to think of the greater good that you’re doing: you’re telling members of the public what's happening in court, that the courts are functioning properly, that the police are doing their job.”
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In this episode Caroline and Liz explain that the jury has now been sent out to consider their verdicts. They were asked to begin their deliberations after listening to the judge sum up the case for more than four days.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz outline the closing speech of Lucy Letby’s barrister, Ben Myers, KC. He tells the jury that the prosecution case is based on a presumption of guilt and not innocence. And he claims she is wrongly being blamed for mistakes in care at the hospital.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz continue to explain what prosecutor Nick Johnson KC said in his closing speech. He tells the jury Lucy Letby underwent training on the dangers of air embolus just days before she allegedly started harming babies and that the timings of some of the alleged attacks were strikingly similar.
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All the evidence has now been presented to the jury in the trial of Lucy Letby. In this episode, Caroline and Liz explain what prosecutor Nick Johnson KC said in his closing statement and how he is pulling together what he calls the ‘patterns' or ‘similarities’ in the alleged attacks.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz outline the conclusion of the defence case and the end of the evidence. They also explain the judge’s directions to the jury and how they should decide whether Lucy Letby is guilty or innocent of the charges she faces.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz explain what Lucy Letby said at the conclusion of her cross-examination. They discuss the prosecution claims that she was out on the razzle, drinking with colleagues in the months before her arrest. And how it’s alleged that she’s a calculated murderer who killed babies for attention and sympathy.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz explain what Lucy Letby said when questioned by the prosecution about Babies K to Q. They discuss how she accepts that two of her alleged victims were poisoned with insulin - just not by her. And how the prosecution say she was plotting to kill all three of the triplets.
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In this bonus episode Caroline and Liz take a closer look at what Lucy Letby says about her relationship with Dr A. They examine how it’s alleged she attacked and murdered babies on the neo-natal unit - to get his attention because she had a ‘crush’ on him.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz explain what Lucy Letby said when questioned by the prosecution about three of the alleged victims in the case - Baby I, Baby J and Baby K. They discuss how she was accused of getting a “thrill” out of watching the grieving parents of Baby I bathe their daughter after she died and how she allegedly took the opportunity to try to kill when staff were busy with an emergency.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz explain what Lucy Letby said when questioned by the prosecution about four of the alleged victims in the case - Baby E, Baby G, Baby H and Baby I. They discuss how she denies ‘cooking’ or faking medical notes to cover her tracks and attacking babies soon after their parents reluctantly left their cotsides.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz explain what happened in court when the prosecution began questioning Lucy Letby for the first time. They discuss how she believes a ‘gang of four’ hospital consultants were out to get her, and blame her for the sudden collapses and deaths of babies to cover up for failures in their care.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz explain what Lucy Letby had to say about the specific allegations relating to babies G to Q. They discuss how she disputed the evidence given by doctors and nurses on the unit and reveal what she said when asked directly if she’d attacked babies in her care.
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Last week was unusual because the court didn’t sit at all due to the Bank Holiday and juror sickness. Today Lucy Letby resumes her evidence from the witness box and we’re hoping to bring you a bonus episode on this later in the week.
In the meantime, we hope you enjoy this interview with Australian Associated Press Reporter Karen Sweeney. Caroline and Liz chat to Karen, who has been following the podcast from the beginning, about her career and court reporting in Australia.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz explain what Lucy Letby had to say on the second day of her defence case. We examine the specific allegations relating to the first six babies in the trial - babies A to F - and how she said it was ‘awful’ being accused of murdering children in her care.
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In this bonus episode, Caroline and Liz outline the start of Lucy Letby’s defence and explain what she said about why she is innocent of the charges against her. We’ll hear how she was traumatised and left with PTSD by her arrest and how she insisted she never did anything to hurt the babies in her care.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz focus on the final days of the prosecution case against Lucy Letby.
We’ll hear more from the interviews she gave to police after her arrest and how she was so depressed after being moved off the neo-natal unit that she contemplated suicide.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz explain how police found a diary, a selection of handwritten notes and hundreds of medical handover sheets during searches of Lucy Letby’s home. We also reveal what she told police when questioned and how she wept when photographs of her bedroom were shown in court.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz outline how Lucy Letby was telephoned at short notice by her manager and asked not to work her night shift following the collapse of the 17th baby in the case, Baby Q. In a series of text messages to colleagues she said the call had ‘messed with her head’ and prompted her to have a ‘meltdown’ because she was worried she was ‘in trouble.’
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This week, Caroline and Kim Pilling, standing in for Liz, go over what the court heard about the final baby in this case, Baby Q. He was a baby boy who was considered to be stable, until one morning when he collapsed just after Lucy Letby had left the nursery he was in. The prosecution allege that the clear fluid Baby Q had vomited before his collapse was water or saline which had been forced down his nasogastric tube by Lucy Letby.
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This week, Caroline is joined by Kim Pilling from the Press Association. He’s been at Manchester Crown Court every day covering the trail and is standing in for Liz while she’s away.
The court has heard from an expert pathologist who told the jury that six of the babies in the case did not die from natural causes. He told the court one of the babies had “huge” bruising to his liver, the like of which he might expect to see in children involved in road traffic accidents, accidents with bicycles and non-accidental assaults.
We also hear from Ex Daily Mirror Journalist, Feature Writer and Media Law Lecturer Carole Watson on how to cover important stories while working within the law.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz examine what the prosecution say happened to Baby P, the second of two identical triplets allegedly murdered by Lucy Letby at the end of June 2016.
The nurse is accused of killing him 23 hours after his brother, by injecting air into his feeding tube and tummy.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz examine what the jury have heard about attempts made by a senior doctor to have Lucy Letby removed from the neo-natal unit after the death of two triplets. The nurse is accused of killing the brothers by injecting air into their tummies and bloodstreams on successive shifts after she returned from a holiday to Ibiza.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz examine what the prosecution say happened to Baby O, the first of two identical triplets allegedly murdered by Lucy Letby at the end of June 2016. The nurse is accused of killing the brothers by injecting air into their tummies and bloodstreams on successive shifts after she returned from a holiday to Ibiza.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz examine what the prosecution say happened to Baby N, a premature baby boy admitted to the Countess of Chester Hospital with the blood-clotting condition haemophilia.
Lucy Letby is accused of attempting to murder him by thrusting a piece of medical tubing or equipment down his throat, causing him to bleed and collapse.
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In this bonus episode Caroline and Liz take an in depth look at what the jury have heard about the nurse at the centre of the trial.
They examine text messages between Lucy Letby and her colleagues which show she had a ‘flirty’ friendship with a doctor on the unit and look at what they reveal about her private life.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz examine what the prosecution say happened to Baby K, an extremely premature baby girl who Lucy Letby is accused of attempting to murder by tampering with her breathing tube.
We’ll hear evidence from TV doctor, Dr Ravi Jayaram, who said he suspected he interrupted Lucy Letby attacking Baby K. And that after she was transferred to a more specialised unit, she sadly died because of problems associated with her ‘extreme prematurity.’
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In this bonus episode, Caroline and Liz discuss the change in focus the court took this week, as the jury heard more about how doctors were getting worried about a possible link between the babies who had been collapsing in the neonatal unit. It’s the first time the court has heard that there were some people who had started ‘to think the unthinkable”.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz examine what the prosecution say happened to Baby M, a twin boy Lucy Letby is accused of attempting to murder by injecting with air.
Jurors have heard how doctors first became suspicious about Lucy Letby 10 months before baby M’s collapse and how a medical log of the drugs he was given during attempts to save his life was later found under Lucy Letby’s bed when police searched her home after her arrest.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz examine what the prosecution say happened to Baby L, a twin boy Lucy Letby is accused of poisoning with insulin.
We also hear about how the nurse celebrated winning £135 on the Grand National shortly after the attack allegedly took place and how there was drama in court when she broke down in tears after a doctor she worked with gave evidence for the first time.
Head to our Twitter page @LucyLetbyTrial to see the photo the jury were shown of the locked fridge in the neonatal unit where the insulin was kept.
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In this episode, Liz and Caroline explain the rest of the evidence the jury have heard about Baby J, ‘a nice little baby’ who Lucy Letby is accused of attempting to murder in November 2015 by smothering.
Jurors have been told her parents had been preparing to take her home when she suddenly collapsed and suffered two seizures at the end of a night shift. The court heard there was no ‘obvious’ medical cause for her brain being starved by oxygen and it’s the prosecution case that Lucy Letby must have been responsible. Lucy Letby denies all the charges.
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In this episode Liz and Caroline explain the evidence the jury have heard in relation to a premature baby girl, Baby J, who Lucy Letby is accused of attempting to murder by smothering in November 2015.
Baby J was born 8 weeks early and underwent surgery for a perforated bowel in the first few days after her birth. Jurors heard she was recovering well and her mother and father were preparing to take her home. But, the prosecution say, that all changed during a night shift when Lucy Letby allegedly tried to smother Baby J, causing her to suffer a seizure.
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In this episode, Liz and Caroline explain the evidence the jury have heard in relation to a very premature baby girl, Baby I, who Lucy Letby allegedly attacked three times, before murdering her on the fourth attempt.
Jurors heard from a doctor who said she saw Lucy Letby crying on the neo-natal unit and saying: ‘It’s always me when it happens, my babies…” The court was also shown a sympathy card Lucy Letby wrote to the parents of Baby I after she died. Lucy Letby denies all the allegations.
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This week, Liz and Caroline finish explaining the evidence the jury heard in relation to Baby H, a premature baby girl who Lucy Letby is accused of trying to murder twice on consecutive night shifts. Baby H was a poorly baby who was on and off a ventilator while at the Countess of Chester Hospital. But within two days at Arrowe Park Hospital, she dramatically improved. Prosecutors say Lucy Letby was sabotaging her care while she was at the Countess. Lucy Letby denies these allegations.
Also in this episode: Professor David Wilson, a well known criminologist who is sometimes called the real life Cracker, tells us how punching an opponent in the nose during a rugby game in university led to his interest in crime and punishment. He also opens up about the saddest miscarriage of justice he encountered - the case of Stefan Kiszko who was wrongfully imprisoned for 16 years before being exonerated.
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In this episode, Caroline and Liz examine what happened to Baby H, a baby girl, who Lucy Letby allegedly tried to kill twice in 24 hours. In the early hours of September 26, 2015, Baby H collapsed and didn’t have a heartbeat for twenty-two minutes while staff battled to save her life. Jurors were told the doctors were so worried that they urged her parents to have her baptised in case she didn’t make it.
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This week, Liz and Caroline had hoped to bring you details of evidence heard by the jury during their first week back. But, unexpectedly the case was delayed and unable to go ahead because of health and family issues relating to two members of the jury.
We’re hoping they will be back to normal next week. In the meantime, we have two excellent interviews this week: Part 2 of the interview with media law expert Mark Hanna, and another with the legendary boss of news agency Cavendish Press, Jon Harris, AKA Mr Justice Harris.
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The Trial of Lucy Letby is back after the Christmas break with an interview with Mark Hanna, one of the editors of McNae’s Essential Law for Journalists - the book considered to be the ‘bible’ of media law for reporters. Liz and Caroline chat to Mark about the legal tightrope they are treading to bring listeners the podcast – one of the first to cover an ongoing legal case – each week.
Next week, Liz and Caroline will be back with details on what the jury are expected to hear over the coming days about the next baby in the case, Baby H, as the trial resumes for the new year.
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In this episode, Caroline and Liz explain how Lucy Letby allegedly tried to kill Baby G, the most premature baby in the case, on two more occasions.
We hear how she is said to have attacked the tiny infant on a day shift, within the space of five hours, on her original due date, leaving her with irreversible brain damage.
We also hear part two of the chat with former chief crown prosecutor, Nazir Afzal, where he describes the importance of trials being open to the public and how trust in the justice system would benefit from live streaming trials.
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In this episode, Caroline and Liz examine what happened to Baby G, the most premature baby in this case, who Lucy Letby allegedly tried to kill three times in a fortnight.
We also chat to former chief crown prosecutor, Nazir Afzal, about the difficulties faced by lawyers preparing and running such a long and complicated trial, and why advances in technology have revolutionised courtrooms.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz explain what the prosecution experts say happened to Baby F, a premature twin boy who Lucy Letby allegedly tried to poison with insulin.
We hear how two bags of feed were allegedly contaminated by Lucy Letby and how all of the nurses on duty during the night shift were called to court - and each denied putting insulin into baby F’s feed.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz examine what happened to Baby F, a premature twin boy who Lucy Letby allegedly tried to kill with insulin. We hear how his blood sugar suddenly crashed soon after the nurse allegedly poisoned his intravenous feed and how, after she finished her shift, she went salsa dancing with a colleague. We also chat to freelance broadcaster, Matt O’Donoghue, about the skill of condensing a day’s worth of evidence into just a few minutes for television or radio.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz examine what happened to Baby E, a premature twin boy who Lucy Letby allegedly attacked with a plastic medical tube or wire before she murdered him. We hear from his mother, who the prosecution say, interrupted the nurse while she was attacking her son, and about more text messages Lucy Letby exchanged with colleagues after his death. We also chat to former Old Bailey court reporter and media law expert Tim Crook, professor of journalism at London's Goldsmiths University, about why court reporting is still important in the modern era.
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In this bonus episode of the Trial of Lucy Letby, Liz and Caroline speak to Julia Quenzler, a courtroom artist at the Lucy Letby trial. Over her 30 year career she has sketched defendants, barristers and court scenes of some of the most high profile cases in modern history. It is a fascinating listen that you won’t want to miss.
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In this episode Caroline and Liz examine the case of Baby D, a baby girl born full term, who was admitted to the neo-natal unit with an infection because of a hospital mistake. We hear testimony from her devastated parents who say they saw Lucy Letby ‘hovering’ around their daughter’s cot hours before she died.
We also have a fascinating interview with a court artist, who has drawn defendants and court scenes of some of the world's most significant criminal trials over her 30-year career.
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This week, Liz and Caroline review what the jury heard about the death of baby C, described by one nurse as the smallest baby she had ever seen. It is alleged that Lucy Letby was close to the infant’s cot and injected him with air causing his collapse, while her defence say she was not responsible and the hospital was not equipped to deal with a baby of his size.
In this episode, we’ll also hear texts Lucy Letby shared with a colleague after this night shift, as well as testimony from the prosecution's expert witnesses who say Baby D did not die of natural causes.
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In our continuation of the Trial of Lucy Letby, Liz and Caroline focus on the case of Baby B, the twin of Baby A. She was allegedly attacked 27 hours after her brother, but survived. We’ll hear testimony from nurses and doctors who successfully resuscitated Baby B when she collapsed. Liz and Caroline also chat to experienced journalist Kim Pilling, who works for the Press Association and has one of just a handful of media seats in the actual courtroom.
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In this episode, Liz and Caroline continue their examination of the trial, which is focusing on each baby in turn. They look into what the prosecution say happened to Baby A – the first alleged victim. A premature twin boy, he died 24 hours after his birth in June 2015. We’ll also hear about a significant rash found on some of the alleged victims and hear text messages Lucy Letby sent to colleagues after Baby A’s death.
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This week, Caroline and Liz begin outside the crown court where Liz goes over the opening statements of both the prosecution and the defence. The prosecution accuse Lucy Letby of being ‘a poisoner’ and ‘constant malevolent presence’ on the unit, while the defence say the case against her is based entirely on coincidence and assumption, describing her as a hard working nurse who only tried to help the babies in her care. We’ll also hear from David Banks, a media law expert, who explains the fine line journalists tread when reporting ongoing trials.
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In this first episode of The Trial of Lucy Letby, Caroline and Liz go over the background of the case that has grabbed the attention of people all over the world. We’ll find out how the jury has heard that staff at the Countess of Chester Hospital grew suspicious of the nurse back in 2015 after an unexplained rise in deaths and serious collapses of babies in the neonatal unit.
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En liten tjänst av I'm With Friends. Finns även på engelska.