Song Exploder

The band War formed in 1969, in Long Beach, California. ?Low Rider? is from their 1975 album Why Can?t We Be Friends? The song was a hit as soon as it came out. It went to #1 on the Billboard R&B charts. And it?s just had tremendous lasting power ever since. Besides being in Dazed and Confused, where I heard it, it?s been sampled by The Beastie Boys, it was covered by Korn, and it was the theme song for all six seasons of The George Lopez Show.

For this episode, I talked to War?s bandleader Lonnie Jordan, and their producer Jerry Goldstein. The two of them told me how ?Low Rider? was made in the studio, through a combination of improvisation and meticulous editing.

For more, visit songexploder.net/war.

Shania Twain is a singer and songwriter from Ontario, Canada. She?s the only female artist to have had three consecutive Diamond albums ? albums that have sold over ten million copies. Actually, her 1997 album Come On Over is the best-selling album by a female solo artist of all time. One of the most iconic songs from that iconic album is "You?re Still The One." It was co-written and produced by Mutt Lange, who had previously produced some other classic albums, like Back in Black by AC/DC and Pyromania by Def Leppard. He had also produced Shania Twain?s previous album, The Woman in Me.  For this episode, Shania told me the story of writing ?You?re Still The One.? She told me about what the song meant to her when she was making it, over 25 years ago, and what it means to her now.

For more, visit songexploder.net/shania-twain.

Danny Brown started his career in 2007 by handing out mixtapes in Detroit, where he?s from. In 2011, he put out his acclaimed second album, XXX. Since then, he?s collaborated with rappers like Kendrick Lamar, A$AP Rocky and JPEGMafia, but he?s also worked with electronic bands like Purity Ring and The Avalanches, and he did a verse on a remix for Korn.

When I first heard him, around when XXX came out, I was really drawn to his voice. And I also appreciated that, given how young so many artists are now when they get really famous, Danny Brown?s career really started taking off in his 30s. He put out his sixth album, Quaranta, in 2023. And for this episode, I talked to him about one of the songs from that album, called ?Y.B.P.," which features guest vocals from Bruiser Wolf.

For more, visit songexploder.net/danny-brown.

Rhiannon Giddens has released five solo albums since 2015. Before that, she was a member of the Grammy-winning band, the Carolina Chocolate Drops. She is now also the artistic director of the Silkroad Ensemble, the musical supergroup that Yo-Yo Ma founded.

Rhiannon Giddens is one of those people where I feel like they have to start inventing new awards, because she?s already won all of them. She?s got multiple Grammys, she won the Pulitzer Prize for an opera she co-wrote called Omar, she?s a MacArthur Genius, and the new Beyonce song ?Texas Hold ?Em,? the one that features the banjo? That?s Rhiannon Giddens playing the banjo. (I guess that?s not technically an award, but it feels like one to me.)

In 2023, Rhiannon released an album called You?re The One, and I talked to her about the song she wrote called "You Louisiana Man," which was nominated for a Grammy for Best American Roots Performance.

For more, visit songexploder.net/rhiannon-giddens.

I wanted to revisit an episode about one of my favorite songs from 2021, ?Black Dog? by Arlo Parks. A few months after this episode originally came out, Arlo Parks won the Mercury Prize for Album of the Year. She was also nominated for two Grammys: Best New Artist and Best Alternative Album. Since then, she released a new album called My Soft Machine, and she?s going to be on tour this spring.

Arlo Parks is a singer and songwriter from London. In January 2021, she released her debut album, Collapsed in Sunbeams. It hit number three on the UK charts, and she won this year?s BRIT award for Breakthrough Artist. Last year, NME called her song "Black Dog" the year?s "most devastating song." In this episode, Anaïs breaks down ?Black Dog," which she made with producer Gianluca Buccellati.

For more, visit songexploder.net/arlo-parks.

Green Day is a punk band from the East Bay in California. Billie Joe Armstrong, Mike Dirnt and Tré Cool have been playing music together since 1987. They?ve sold over 90 million records. They?ve won four Grammys, including twice for Best Rock Album. They put out their first album in 1990, and their second album, Kerplunk!, in 1991. And then, they moved to a major label and in 1994 they put out their third album, Dookie, which was huge. It helped bring punk into the mainstream. And this month is its 30th anniversary. So for this episode, I talked to Billie Joe Armstrong about the making of one of Green Day?s biggest hits of all time: ?Basket Case."

Coming up, you?ll also hear from Rob Cavallo, who produced the album. Plus, you?ll hear two different demo versions of ?Basket Case,? the first of which is basically a totally different song.

Billie Joe Amstrong traces the history of ?Basket Case,? from its origins as a cassette recording in a punk basement, all the way to becoming a song that helped define an era of music.

For more, visit songexploder.net/green-day.

The first episode of Song Exploder, about The Postal Service song "The District Sleeps Alone Tonight," came out 10 years ago, in January 2014. To celebrate the 10th anniversary of the podcast, we're doing what bands do, and putting out a deluxe, expanded edition of our very first release: this version features a new interview, new insights, and new pieces of the song and demo.

The Postal Service formed in 2001. Their debut album came out in 2003, and it was a game changer. Their combination of electronic music and indie rock not only sold over a million copies; their songs were everywhere on TV and in film, and influenced a generation of artists. Last year, they played sold-out concerts across the US in celebration of the 20th anniversary of the album, and there are more shows to come in 2024. A few weeks ago, I spoke to Ben Gibbard, and I combined that with my original interview from 2013 with Jimmy Tamborello. And here, together, the two of them tell the story of how they made their song ?The District Sleeps Alone Tonight.?

For more, visit songexploder.net/postal-service-deluxe.

For the last episode of the year, I got the chance to drive up to Northridge, California, and have a conversation with Dave Grohl. We talked about the Foo Fighters song ?The Teacher,? which is an epic, 10-minute-long song. Dave told me it?s the most important piece of music he?s ever written, because it?s dedicated to his mother, Virginia, who passed away in 2022.

Dave Grohl started Foo Fighters in 1994, after Nirvana ended. This year, Foo Fighters set a record for having the most Top 10 hits on the Billboard Mainstream Rock charts. They?ve won 15 Grammy awards, including winning the Grammy for Best Rock album five times ? more than anyone else.

?The Teacher? is from their 11th album, But Here We Are, which came out in June 2023. I sat with Dave in the Foo Fighters practice space, and he told me the whole story of the song. Coming up, you?ll hear the two voice memos he originally recorded on acoustic guitar, plus the two demos he made on his way to figuring the song out.

For more, visit songexploder.net/foo-fighters.

Raye is a singer, songwriter and producer from London. Besides being an artist in her own right, she?s also been a songwriter for other artists since she was a teenager. She?s co-written songs for Beyoncé, Charli XCX, and Ellie Goulding. In 2023, she released her debut album, My 21st Century Blues. The first single, ?Escapism," became her first song to hit #1 in the UK. It?s gone platinum in the US, the UK, and seven other countries. It features guest vocals from 070 Shake. When she was here in LA on tour, I talked to Raye about how she made ?Escapism.?

For more, visit songexploder.net/raye.

Sampha is a singer, songwriter and producer from London. His first album, Process, won the Mercury Prize in 2017. He?s collaborated with artists like the XX, Kendrick Lamar, Drake, and Solange. If you saw the Song Exploder Netflix show, Sampha was in the Alicia Keys episode, for the song they did together as a duet. This year, in October 2023, Sampha put out his second album, Lahai. And for this episode, I talked to Sampha about the song ?Spirit 2.0.? Coming up you?ll hear the original demo, and some early voice memos.

Sampha recruited some collaborators for the song, like producer Pablo Diez-Reixa, aka El Guincho, who won a Grammy for his work on Rosalia?s first album; plus Yaeji; and Lisa Kaindé, from Ibeyi. But the song ?Spirit 2.0? first took shape when Sampha was by himself, at home.

For more, visit songexploder.net/sampha.

I think one of the hardest things there is to do in music is to write a love song that expresses something real. I read that the song "Liar" by Paramore was written by Hayley Williams, the singer of the band, about her longtime bandmate Taylor York, and about the feelings she started to realize she?d had for him. Paramore has been a band for over 20 years, since Hayley and Taylor and Zac Farro, who plays drums, were all young teenagers. Paramore?s won a Grammy for Best Rock Song, and they have multiple platinum albums. But with all that history, Taylor and Hayley only recently became a couple. "Liar" is a song off of their most recent album, This Is Why, which came out in February 2023. So I talked to Hayley, Taylor and Zac in their studio about how their song first came about and what it means to them.

For more, visit songexploder.net/paramore.

Kesha is a singer and songwriter from Los Angeles. She put out her first song in 2009, and it was a huge #1 hit in the US and 13 other countries. She?s had 10 top-ten singles on the Billboard charts, and sold millions of albums.  She got famous for songs that were about partying, and breaking the rules, and having fun. But this year, in May 2023, she put out the album Gag Order, which is a lot more raw and vulnerable. She made it with superstar producer Rick Rubin. And for this episode, I talked to Kesha about her song ?Eat the Acid," which she wrote early on in the pandemic. I was really interested in the intense, distorted vocal sound that I?d heard in the track; and, as you?ll hear, it turns out most of that was a byproduct of the way she had to write and record when we were all in lockdown.

For more, visit songexploder.net/kesha.

Alvvays is from Toronto. Their first album came out in 2014, and they?ve put out two other albums since then. In Canada, they?ve won the Juno Award for Alternative Album of the Year, and all three of their albums have been shortlisted for the Polaris Music Prize.

Their first song was also one of their biggest hits. It?s called "Archie, Marry Me." Rolling Stone and Stereogum named it one of the best songs of the last decade. So for this episode, I talked about it with Molly Rankin and Alec O?Hanley from the band. The two of them are pretty quiet about their relationship other than being bandmates, but they told me a lot about the song, which I would count nowadays as an indie rock classic.

For more, visit songexploder.net/alvvays.

Laufey is a singer and songwriter originally from Iceland. She studied piano and cello as a kid. When she was 15, she was a guest soloist with the Iceland Symphony Orchestra. She went to Berklee College of Music in Boston, and that?s when she started writing songs. While she was still a student, she had a number one hit on Icelandic radio. Her first album debuted at number one on Billboard?s Alternative New Artist chart. Laufey was Spotify?s most streamed jazz artist of 2022. Her second album, Bewitched, came out in September 2023. And her new album just broke Spotify?s record for the most streams of a jazz album in a single day. And for this episode, I talked to Laufey about the breakout hit from that new album: a song called ?From The Start."

For more, visit songexploder.net/laufey.

This summer, in June 2023, Janelle Monáe put out her fourth album, The Age of Pleasure. Listening to it made me want to revisit her Song Exploder episode, from 2018. One thing on Song Exploder that I personally love is when we get to hear an artist?s raw voice memo, from the moment when they?re first coming up with a song idea. This episode has one of my all-time favorites.

Janelle Monáe is an award-winning musician and actress who released her first record in 2007. She?s been nominated for multiple Grammys, and she starred in the Oscar films Moonlight and Hidden Figures. In April 2018, she released her third album, Dirty Computer, which includes this song, ?So Afraid.? In this episode, Janelle Monáe takes ?So Afraid? apart, to explain how she built it, step by step?beginning with a trip to the dentist.

For more, visit songexploder.net/janelle-monae.

The "Skip Intro" button first got introduced to us through Netflix in 2017, and, I know, a lot of people use it ? including me. But, if I can get into old-man, back-in-my-day mode for a second, I have so much fondness for the opening theme music for so many shows. It?s a chance to set the mood for everything that you?re about to see. One of the intros that I never skip is the animated opening title sequence for Only Murders in the Building, which is a Hulu show that debuted in August 2021, and now is in its third season. It was created by Steve Martin and John Hoffman, and it stars Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez. The three of them play neighbors who live in the same building in New York, and they?re all obsessed with the same true crime podcast. And then when someone in their building gets murdered, they decide to start their own true crime podcast, and try and solve the mystery of who the killer is.

For this episode, I talked to the show?s composer, Siddhartha Khosla, about the show?s theme music. Coming up, you?ll hear a voice memo that Siddhartha recorded before he?d even heard about the show, which then led to a demo that you?ll hear, and eventually, the final theme.

For more, visit songexploder.net/only-murders-in-the-building.

It can be hard to be in a band, or really, in any kind of group where there?s creative collaboration, and you?re supposed to act like it's a democracy. Because what do you do with an idea that you love, if nobody else believes in it? That question is a big part of this episode with Local Natives.

Local Natives is a band from Southern California. Their first album came out in 2009, but the three vocalists and songwriters in the band, Taylor Rice, Kelcey Ayer, and Ryan Hahn ? they?ve been playing together since they were in high school. The lineup also includes Matthew Frazier on drums and Nik Ewing on bass. They?ve put out five albums, including their most recent, Time Will Wait For No One, which came out in July 2023.

But for this episode, I talked to Taylor, Kelcey, and Ryan about an older song of theirs: ?Dark Days,? which came out in 2016. It?s their biggest song to date; it has over 100 million streams, and it's been certified gold.  It?s a duet with Swedish singer Nina Persson, from The Cardigans. In  2020, they put out a new version of the song, featuring Amelia Meath from the band Sylvan Esso.

I talked to the guys here in the studio, and to Amelia Meath remotely. And together, they told me the seven-year story of how ?Dark Days,? was first made and then eventually remade.

For more, visit songexploder.net/local-natives.

Bakar is a singer and songwriter from London. In 2018 he put out his first release, Badkid. A year later, he put out the EP, Will You Be My Yellow?, and this September, he?s releasing his second full-length album, Halo. One of Bakar?s tracks from the EP and the upcoming album is a song called "Hell N Back," which went platinum, and hit number one on Billboard?s Triple A Charts. For this episode, Bakar told me how he wrote "Hell N Back," and all the unexpected twists and turns it took before it became a hit.

For more, visit songexploder.net/bakar.

Natalie Merchant is an award-winning singer and songwriter from upstate New York. She was the lead singer of the band 10,000 Maniacs until she left in 1993. And then, as a solo artist, she?s put out nine albums over the last 30 years. Between 10,000 Maniacs and her solo work, she?s had multiple multi-platinum records.

In April 2023, Natalie put out her first album of new songs in nine years. It?s called Keep Your Courage. And for this episode, she talked to me about the song ?Sister Tilly." It?s a eulogy for a fictional character ? a woman who represents the generation of women who influenced her. Women who were activists in the 1960s and 70s, when she was growing up.

For more, visit songexploder.net/natalie-merchant.

This week, I wanted to go back and revisit an older episode. I recorded an interview with singer and songwriter Julien Baker in 2018. It was a few months after her second album came out. Since then, she?s put out another solo album, called Little Oblivions, which was critically acclaimed. And now she?s also a member of boygenius, which is the supergroup made up of Julien, Phoebe Bridgers, and Lucy Dacus. They?ve put out an EP and then, earlier this year, they put out their first full-length. Julien is a really interesting artist, and I think her songwriting is just heartbreaking, especially the song she takes apart for her episode. Here it is:

Julien Baker is from Memphis, Tennessee. She released her second album, Turn Out The Lights, in October 2017, on Matador Records. The New York Times called her music "devastating" and Pitchfork gave the album Best New Music. In this episode, Julien tells the story of her song "Appointments," and how writing it helped her work through her thoughts around addiction, depression, and relationships. Julien also takes apart the track ?Over,? which was written as part of ?Appointments,? but then split off as a separate track.

For more, visit songexploder.net/julien-baker.

Feist is a singer/songwriter from Canada. She put out her first solo album in 1999. She?s won 11 Juno awards, including two for Artist of the Year, and she has four Grammy nominations. She?s also been a member of the band Broken Social Scene since 2001.

In April 2023, Feist put out her sixth album, Multitudes. And for this episode, I talked to her about how she made the opening song from that album, called ?In Lightning.?

For more, visit songexploder.net/feist.

Madison McFerrin is a singer, songwriter, and producer from New York. She?s sung with legends like Aretha Franklin, George Clinton, and De La Soul & The Roots. Madison?s first EP came out in 2016, and last week, she released her debut album, I Hope You Can Forgive Me. In the years between the EP and the album, Madison started producing her own music. It wasn?t really her plan, but something that developed over the course of the pandemic. For this episode, I talked to Madison about a song from her album called ?Run." It was inspired by the discovery that she?s the descendant of a woman who escaped slavery, and features guest vocals from Madison?s father, Grammy-winner Bobby McFerrin.

For more, visit songexploder.net/madison-mcferrin.

In May 1980, the band Joy Division was devastated by the death of lead singer Ian Curtis. The three remaining band members, Bernard Sumner, Peter Hook, and Stephen Morris, decided they would keep making music together, and a few months later, Gillian Gilbert joined them. They called the band New Order.

New Order is one of the most influential bands of the last four decades. Their song ?Blue Monday" came out in 1983, and it holds the record for being the best-selling 12-inch single of all time. Rolling Stone put ?Blue Monday? on its list of the 500 Greatest Songs of All Time, and Pitchfork included it in its top 5 best songs of the 1980s.

To celebrate the 40th anniversary of the release of ?Blue Monday,? in this episode, New Order discusses how they created the song. This episode was produced in collaboration with Transmissions, the official New Order and Joy Division podcast produced by Cup and Nuzzle. We?ve put together this story out of the hours and hours of interviews they?ve recorded, along with a new interview I did with Peter Hook. As you?ll hear the four of them explain, nothing about Blue Monday?s success, or really, even its existence, was something that they planned for.

For more, visit songexploder.net/new-order.

It?s usually hard to pin down when a genre of music starts. But people point to this one party in August 1973 in the Bronx as the moment where hip-hop was born. That makes this year the 50th anniversary of hip-hop. In honor of that, I wanted to revisit an episode looking back at one of hip-hop?s classic tracks: Shook Ones, Part II, by Mobb Deep. Here?s the episode, originally recorded in June, 2020, when I spoke to Havoc from Mobb Deep:

The rappers Prodigy and Havoc met when they were still in high school in New York. Havoc grew up in Queensbridge, the biggest public housing projects in the country, and as a teenager, Prodigy lived there for a while, too. The two of them formed Mobb Deep in 1991.

In 1995, they put out their second album, The Infamous. It was a success when it came out, but in the 25 years since then, the influence of the album has only grown. Complex named it one of the 10 best rap albums of the 90s, and Pitchfork gave the album a rare perfect score, 10 out of 10. The Washington Post called it a ?masterpiece? of hardcore rap, and in Slate, it was called one of the best albums of the ?90s, and one of the best hip-hop albums ever made.

Their biggest song from the album was ?Shook Ones, Pt. II.? Havoc made the now-legendary beat that he and Prodigy rap over. To celebrate the 25th anniversary, Havoc told me the story of how the whole song came together. Prodigy passed away in 2017, from complications due to sickle-cell anemia, a debilitating disease he?d battled his entire life. But the legacy of Mobb Deep lives on.

For more, visit songexploder.net/mobb-deep.

Yaeji is a singer, songwriter, and producer from New York. During her childhood she moved between Queens, Atlanta, and Seoul. While she was at college in the States, she started DJing and releasing her own music. That led to two EPs in 2017, and since then, she?s also done remixes for Dua Lipa, Charli XCX, and Robyn. Yaeji won the International Breakthrough Award at the AIM Awards in 2020. This week she?s releasing her debut album, With A Hammer.

For this episode, I talked to Yaeji about her song ?Passed Me By.? She sings the song in Korean and English, and she told me how using both languages gives her a broader palette to express her ideas.

For more, visit songexploder.net/yaeji.

Seal is a multi-Grammy-winning singer and songwriter from England. His song ?Kiss from a Rose? was first released in 1994, on his second album. It was a huge hit, thanks in part to being featured in the movie Batman Forever. It landed on the top ten charts in multiple countries, and eventually went quadruple platinum in the US. At the 1996 Grammys, it won Song of the Year, Record of the Year, and Best Male Pop Vocal Performance. But "Kiss from a Rose" becoming a hit was not a foregone conclusion. Seal almost didn?t record it. And when it was first released, it didn?t make much of a splash. But for this episode, the 250th episode of Song Exploder, Seal and his longtime collaborator, producer Trevor Horn, told me the story of what it took to bring "Kiss from a Rose" to life.

For more, visit songexploder.net/seal.

Kenny Beats is a hip-hop producer who?s been making beats and producing songs for other artists since 2010. He?s got a long list of collaborations, with rappers like Vince Staples, Freddie Gibbs, and Denzel Curry. In 2022, he did something he wasn?t really ever expecting to do, which was to release an album of his own. The album is called Louie, and it?s a tribute to Kenny?s father.

I talked to Kenny about the song ?Still,? the first song he made specifically for this project. It features guest vocals from JPEGMafia and Omar Apollo, and a sample from gospel singer Linda Kemp. Louie includes a lot of tracks where you can hear Kenny?s dad?s voice, and even though "Still" isn?t one of them, as Kenny explains, his relationship with his dad is embedded in the song?s DNA.

For more, visit songexploder.net/kenny-beats.

Last month, in January 2023, Kimbra put out her fourth album. I was listening to it, and it made me want to go back and revisit her Song Exploder episode from 2018. Here it is:

Kimbra is an artist from New Zealand. Her first album came out in 2011, and in 2013 she won two Grammys for her collaboration with Gotye, the multiplatinum hit song,? Somebody That I Used to Know.? In this episode, Kimbra breaks down her song from 2018, ?Top of the World,? a song she also made in collaboration - this time with artists Skrillex and Diplo.

For more, visit songexploder.net/kimbra.

MUNA is a trio from Los Angeles, made up of Katie Gavin, Josette Maskin, and Naomi McPherson. They?ve been making music together since 2013, when they met in college. Their third album, which is self-titled, came out in 2022, and Rolling Stone, Stereogum, the Guardian, and others, named it one of the best albums of the year. Consequence of Sound called MUNA the 2022 Band of the Year.

I talked to MUNA about the song "What I Want," which they co-wrote with Leland. Leland is an artist and songwriter whose other credits include Selena Gomez, Charli XCX, and Troye Sivan. In this episode, Katie, Jo, and Naomi, along with Leland, tell the story of how the song came together, from the original demo to the final version, and you?ll find out how a band that doesn?t really party ended up writing a party banger.

For more, visit songexploder.net/muna.

Noah Kahan is a singer and songwriter from Strafford, Vermont. Last year, in 2022, he released Stick Season, his third record. The title track from that record went viral on TikTok when Noah was first writing it, and posting pieces of it. One of those videos has over 10 million plays. And as of this recording, on Spotify, the full song has almost 100 million streams.

For this episode, Noah talked to me about the process of making that song: What led him to first post half a song on TikTok, and what happened after that. You?ll hear the raw recordings off of his phone; the different drafts he made as he worked; you'll hear the different versions he first shared on social media; and you?ll hear his bracingly honest appraisal of the winding path he took ??? in his life, and in his music ? to get to where he is now.

For more, visit songexploder.net/noah-kahan.

Sampa The Great is a songwriter, rapper, and singer from Zambia. She was based in Australia for years, but came back to Zambia in 2020, shortly before the pandemic hit. When she couldn?t travel, she decided to make her next album there in Lusaka. The album is called As Above, So Below, and it was produced by Mag44.

In this episode, Sampa the Great and Mag44 break down the closing song "Let Me Be Great," which features vocals from legendary West African singer Angélique Kidjo, winner of 5 Grammys and one of TIME?s Most Influential People. I got to speak to Angélique Kidjo in her studio in Paris, and I spoke to Sampa the Great and Mag44 in Lusaka. Together, the three of them tell the story of how they made "Let Me Be Great."

For more, visit songexploder.net/sampa-the-great.

Everything Everywhere All at Once is a sci-fi comedy independent film that came out in the spring of 2022. It?s a huge hit that made over $100 million at the box office. It?s already been named the best movie of the year by several publications and awards organizations.

The movie stars the legendary actress Michelle Yeoh, and was directed by the Daniels, the directing duo of Daniel Kwan and Daniel Scheinert. The score for the film is by the band Son Lux. In addition to the score, Son Lux also made the original song for the film?s end credits: "This is a Life," featuring two prestigious guest vocalists: Mitski and David Byrne of the Talking Heads.

For this episode, I spoke to Ryan Lott from Son Lux, as well as the Daniels. Ryan tells the story of how the song was created, with his bandmates and Mitski and David Byrne and Daniels all adding to it and shaping it.

For more, visit songexploder.net/son-lux.

Omah Lay is a Nigerian singer, songwriter, and producer. He?s one of the young stars of Afrobeats, the West African genre that's become a global phenomenon. His new album Boy Alone features a collaboration with Justin Bieber. But for this episode, Omah talked to me about the song ?Never Forget.? Boy Alone was Omah?s late father's nickname, and the song ?Never Forget? was inspired by him.

For more, visit songexploder.net/omah-lay.

The final episode of Book Exploder is with author James McBride. He was born in New York City and raised in Brooklyn?s Red Hook Houses housing projects until the age of seven. That housing project became the setting for his novel, Deacon King Kong. In 2015, President Obama awarded him with the National Humanities Medal, and in 2021, Deacon King Kong won the Andrew Carnegie Medal for Excellence in Fiction.

Deacon King Kong tells of the upending of a Brooklyn neighborhood, after a young drug dealer is shot in broad daylight by a deacon known to everyone as Sportcoat. In his conversation with Susan, James discusses a passage from the book?s opening, which takes place in the immediate aftermath of the shooting.

For more, visit bookexploder.com/episodes/james-mcbride.

In 2002, Sam Beam?s first album as Iron & Wine was released on Sub Pop Records. He?d given them a bunch of demos, and rather than have him re-record these songs, they released the demos themselves. Since then, he?s put out five more full-length albums and been nominated for multiple Grammys.

For this episode, Sam looked back at the making of his song "Flightless Bird, American Mouth," from his 2007 album The Shepherd?s Dog. A year after that album came out, the song was used prominently in a scene in the movie Twilight, and it?s been one of the most popular Iron & Wine songs ever since. I talked to Sam at Blue Rock Artist Ranch and Studio in Wimberley, Texas, in front of a small audience. You?ll hear the original demo he recorded, and how that transformed into the final version of the song.

For more, visit songexploder.net/iron-and-wine.

George Saunders has won the Booker Prize, and he?s the recipient of a MacArthur Genius Grant. He won the Folio Prize for his collection of short stories, Tenth of December, which includes the short story ?Victory Lap.? In this episode, Susan and George talk about a passage from ?Victory Lap.?

?Victory Lap? is about two teenagers, Alison and Kyle, and what happens when a stranger tries to abduct Alison. In his conversation with Susan, George discusses a passage from the light-hearted opening of the story, before it takes its darker turn.

For more, visit bookexploder.com/episodes/george-saunders.

Santigold is a singer, songwriter, and producer. She?s put out 4 albums since 2008, and she?s been featured as a collaborator on songs with Jay-Z, Beastie Boys, Diplo, and more.

In this episode, Santi takes apart her song "Ushers of the New World," from her 2022 album Spirituals. She made it with some other collaborators she?s worked with before, including Grammy-winning producer Rostam, and producer Ricky Blaze. She told me about how she tries to channel her gut instincts, and how she wanted to transform some of the darkest feelings of 2020 into something galvanizing.

For more, visit songexploder.net/santigold.

Celeste Ng is an American writer and author of three novels. Her second novel, Little Fires Everywhere, was published in 2017 and became a #1 New York Times bestseller. A television adaptation of the novel, starring Reese Witherspoon and Kerry Washington, premiered in 2020.

Little Fires Everywhere is set in Shaker Heights, Ohio, and centers around two families?the mothers of these families especially. One family is upper-middle class with a ?typical? suburban structure: a mom, a dad, and four kids; the other is a single mom, Mia, and her daughter, who are newcomers to the town.

In her conversation with Susan, Celeste discusses a flashback to how a young Mia first became interested in photography as a medium.

For more, visit bookexploder.com/episodes/celeste-ng.

King Princess is the project of Mikaela Straus, a singer, songwriter, and producer from Brooklyn. She?s a platinum-selling artist, and she put out her second album in July, 2022. The last track on the album is the song "Let Us Die." Rolling Stone called it "the banger of the year."

In this episode, Mikaela breaks down the song, along with two of her collaborators on it: co-producer and co-writer Ethan Gruska, and multi-Grammy winning producer Mark Ronson. You?ll hear the original voice memo that Mikaela recorded, and the demo she made with Ethan. And you?ll hear the drums recorded by the late Taylor Hawkins, the legendary drummer of Foo Fighters and Alanis Morissette, who passed away earlier this year.

For more, visit songexploder.net/king-princess.

Tayari Jones is the author of four novels. She won the 2019 Women's Prize for Fiction, and received a Lifetime Achievement Award in Fine Arts from the Congressional Black Caucus. Her novel An American Marriage was an Oprah's Book Club Selection, and was longlisted for the National Book Award. She won the NAACP Image Award for Outstanding Literary Work in Fiction.

An American Marriage tells the story of Celestial and Roy, a Black middle-class couple living in Atlanta. Their lives are torn apart after Roy is wrongfully convicted of a crime he did not commit, and the middle of the book takes the form of letters they send each other while he?s in prison. In her discussion with Susan, Tayari discusses the letter Celestial sends to Roy to tell him she is leaving him.

For more, visit bookexploder.com/episodes/tayari-jones.

Panic! At the Disco is the Grammy-nominated project of Brendon Urie, who originally started it as a band with his high school friends from Las Vegas in 2004. In the eighteen years since, Panic! At the Disco has won American Music Awards, MTV Video Music Awards, iHeartRadio Music awards, and more. In August 2022, Brendon released the seventh Panic! at the Disco album, Viva Las Vengeance. The title track hit #1 on Billboard?s Alternative Airplay chart. In this episode, Brendon tells the story of how he, Grammy-nominated producer Jake Sinclair and Oscar-nominated songwriter Mike Viola all got together to make the song "Viva Las Vengeance."

For more, visit songexploder.net/panic-at-the-disco.

Carmen Maria Machado is the award-winning author of In the Dream House, a memoir where each chapter has its own vivid style of storytelling. It won the Folio Prize in 2021, and was named one of the best books of the year by The New York Times, The New Yorker, and NPR.

In the Dream House depicts Carmen?s experiences in an abusive relationship, and in this episode, she spoke to Susan about a pivotal passage from the chapter ?Dream House as House in Florida.? 

(This is a re-issue of Björk?s episode from December 2015.)

In January 2015, Björk released Vulnicura. She described it as "a complete heartbreak album." And in November, she released Vulnicura Strings, a companion album that stripped away the electronics. In this episode, Bjork breaks down the making of both the original version of the song "Stonemilker," which you?re hearing now, as well as the strings version. She traces her writing and recording process for the track, her collaboration with the electronic producer Arca, and why she wanted to make a second version. 

For more, visit songexploder.net/björk.

Michael Cunningham is the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of The Hours. He?s the recipient of a National Endowment for the Arts Fellowship and a Guggenheim Fellowship. The Hours was published in 1998, and in addition to the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction, it won the PEN/Faulkner Award. The book was later adapted into an Oscar-winning film starring Nicole Kidman, Meryl Streep, and Julianne Moore. In this episode, Michael speaks to Susan Orlean about a passage concerning the suicide of Virginia Woolf, which comes at the end of the prologue.

For more, visit bookexploder.com/episodes/michael-cunningham.

Madonna is the best-selling female recording artist of all time. She has twelve albums that have gone multi-platinum. She?s won seven Grammys, and has had fifty songs reach number 1 on the Billboard Dance chart. That?s more number 1s than anyone in any category, ever. In this episode, she talks about one of those number 1s: ?Hung Up,? from her 2005 album Confessions on a Dance Floor. The song and that album were co-produced by Stuart Price, an electronic musician, producer, and DJ from the UK. ?Hung Up? began in part because Madonna was working on a film with director Luc Besson (whose films include The Fifth Element and Taken). But the song also grew out of Stuart?s DJ sets.

Madonna has a new career-spanning album out, called Finally Enough Love: 50 Number Ones, and in honor of its release, Madonna and Stuart Price told me the story of how their collaboration and partnership led to one of Madonna?s biggest hits.

For more, visit songexploder.net/madonna.

Min Jin Lee is the author of the best-selling novel Pachinko. She?s a Guggenheim Fellow, and the recipient of South Korea's Manhae Grand Prize for Literature. In Pachinko, she tells a sweeping, multi-generational story of a Korean family that moves to Japan. Pachinko is an international best-seller, named one of the best books of 2017 by the New York Times, the BBC, the New York Public Library, and more. In 2022, it was adapted into an Emmy-nominated television series on Apple TV+. In this episode, Min talks to Book Exploder host Susan Orlean about a passage from Chapter 4 of Pachinko: a pivotal scene that takes place in June 1932, in a small fishing village in Korea.

For more, visit bookexploder.com/episodes/min-jin-lee.

Kae Tempest is a songwriter, rapper, an award-winning poet, and best-selling novelist. They?ve been nominated for the UK?s Mercury Prize and Brit Award. Their most recent album is The Line is a Curve, which came out earlier this year. It was executive produced by legendary producer Rick Rubin. Kae made the album alongside their longtime collaborator, producer Dan Carey. I talked to Kae and Dan talk about the song "Move." You?ll hear the first demo they made, which sounds almost nothing like the final version. In this episode, they talk about how the track evolved over several sessions, months apart. Kae?s own life changed a lot during that period. They came out as trans and non-binary in 2020, and this song, in part, helps tell the story of what they were going through.

https://songexploder.net/kae-tempest

Introducing a new miniseries: Book Exploder, where authors break down a passage from one of their books, and discuss the creative process that went into writing it. Every other week, in between episodes of Song Exploder, you?ll hear from a new author, in conversation with host Susan Orlean. But for this first episode of the series, Susan is interviewed by Hrishikesh Hirway about her own book, The Library Book.

Susan Orlean is the author of twelve books, including The Orchid Thief (which inspired the Oscar-award winning film Adaptation), a staff writer at The New Yorker?. Published in 2018, The Library Book became a New York Times Best Seller and named a Washington Post Top 10 Book of the Year. The book tells the story of the 1986 fire at the Los Angeles Central Library. In this inaugural episode, Susan discusses a passage from her book, which details the blaze itself.

For more, visit bookexploder.com/episodes/susan-orlean.

Sudan Archives is a singer, songwriter, producer, and violinist. She grew up in Cincinnati before moving to LA. Her music has been called "viscerally gorgeous" by The Guardian, and "stunning" by Pitchfork, who gave her in ?Best New Music.? This year, she?s releasing her second album, and one of the tracks on it is "Selfish Soul." She told me the idea for this song started when she asked her boyfriend, James (who is the rapper Nocando) to shave her head. Cutting off her hair made her reflect on her whole hair story, from experiences she had as a kid, to the cultural and racial issues that have historically surrounded Black women's hair.

For more, visit songexploder.net/sudan-archives.

Maia from mxmtoon released her first EP in 2018. She was 18 years old, recorded it in her bedroom, and self-released it. It went on to be streamed over 100 million times. This year, she put out her second album, Rising, and in this episode, she breaks down her song "Mona Lisa." She told me about how different it is from the songs she used to write when she was teenager. And how she found something authentic and honest by connecting with a part of herself from even earlier in her life.

For more, visit songexploder.net/mxmtoon.