Autonocast

These are rough times for the once-hot world of EV startups, as the hype fades and reality sets in. On this week's episode the gang sifts through the rubble, finding a little good news (Lucid raised cash!) but a lot of challenges for everyone from Fisker to Tesla.

Incubated inside Google's X project and now deploying in the real world, Wing is an aerial drone delivery company with some interesting parallels to another of Alphabet's "other bets" the gang regularly discuses: Waymo. But, as CEO Adam Woodworth explains, Wing also provides a very different look at how one engineers automated mobility services at a system level, focused more on creating "lego pieces" than specific vehicles. He joins the show to explain Wing's strategy, the unique challenges it faces, and lessons learned along the way.

For our 300th episode, the gang sorts through the highs and lows of some of the recent mobility tech news. Rivian's reveal of two new forthcoming models shows that there's still a lot of excitement in EVs, even as tough challenges remain on the path to financial viability. Meanwhile, the decade-long $10 billion Apple Car saga is officially over, taking the dream of a self-driving car with it, but Waymo's robotaxi service continues to expand proving driving automation is still very real.

Though the flood of EV startups may have receded, the Volkswagen-backed Scout electric truck and SUV startup is as bullish about the opportunity to start a new automaker as ever. Scout CEO Scott Keogh joins the show to explain the opportunity Scout is pursuing, and how the firm plans to stand out in a competitive EV market and rebuild an iconic American brand.

Ed's recent misadventure renting an electric car prompts the gang to share similar experiences, and consider what they might mean for EV adoption. Plus: discussion of Ford's new affordable EV skunkworks, Cruise's CPUC penalty hearing and Waymo's cyclist collision in San Francisco.

After another epic CES party, The Autonocats nurse their hangovers and discuss the show's big trends and buzzwords. Join the first discussion episode of 2024, as the gang puzzles through mysteries like why CES is less consumer-facing than ever, what a "software defined vehicle" is, and why Large Language Models are so promising and yet so disappointing in the automotive space.

With another year coming to a close and another world famous Autonocast CES Party looming, the gang gathers for the annual tradition of exchanging predictions about mobility tech in the new year. Grab a holiday beverage, pull out your crystal ball and enjoy an Autonocast tradition like no other.

With all the furor over the state of electric vehicle sales in the US, Ed and Kirsten called on Tyson Jominy, VP of data and analytics for JD Power, to find out what exactly is happening with the US auto market. The resulting conversation covers the state of EV sales, the role of charging, the profits that are paying for it all, the not-unrelated disappearance of affordable cars, and more.

With Cruise founder and CEO Kyle Vogt resigning, the gang gathers to hash out what it means for the Level 4 robotaxi company, its corporate parent General Motors, and the sector at large.

Can you name an EV maker with rock-solid profits and consistent self-funded growth that has never taken a dollar of VC investment? If you've never heard of Lectric eBikes you're probably struggling to answer that question, but with founder and CEO Levi Conlow joining this week's show for an illuminating discussion, that struggle is now over.

The gang gathers to have a few laughs about the Tesla Cybertruck, before digging into the more serious topic of the situation at Cruise and the issues it has created for the entire autonomous vehicle sector.

With Cruise banned from testing and rides in the state of California following new revelations that the firm hid details of a pedestrian crash from the DMV, the gang huddles with Trucks VC partner and the godfather of The Autonocast Reilly Brennan to talk through the issues, impacts and path forward from another sector-defining incident. Plus, Reilly opens his mobility jobs board to startups in the sector.

With Cruise under NHTSA investigation and a new survey showing lower than ever public confidence in AVs, the gang discusses AV skepticism, its causes, cures, and the (not coincidental?) resurgence of the UAW, among other topics.

Alex and Kirsten riff on the most recent robotaxi news before they head off to the Up Summit in Dallas. With Ed gone this week, the duo turned to CMU professor, engineer and autonomous vehicle safety expert Philip Koopman swung by to discuss the hands-off, eyes-off Mercedes Drive Pilot system and whether it's really Level 3 automation.

The gang catches up after a variety of trips, including to the Florida AV Summit. We take a final look back at summer (and some mobility shenanigans and news) now that fall is here.

The long-simmering culture war between the high tech sector and the rest of the San Francisco Bay Area erupted around the issue of AVs in recent weeks, as the CPUC voted to expand robotaxi operations in the city. The gang gathers this week to discuss the public outcry, the CPUC hearing, the subsequent crashes and other issues, and where it all fits into the AV sector's big picture.

With Alex and Kirsten sweating it out in Arizona (and Ed staying smugly cool in Oregon), a conversation about cars and air conditioning leads the gang across a wide range of mobility topics. From the upcoming AV showdown at California's CPUC and Tesla's Rangegate scandal to ChargePoint's decision to actually monitor EV chargers (imagine!), stay cool by staying on top of the hottest issues in mobility tech.

With Alex off on a secret mobility mission, Kirsten and Ed sit down with Matt Markel of the up-and-coming sensing startup Spartan Radar. The ensuing discussion covers the evolving automotive sensor market, the relationship between radar hardware and software, the unique needs of commercial vehicles, and much more.

There's been a whole lot of news since the gang last gathered to discuss the latest in mobility tech, so this week's episode is jam packed with topics. From the AV STEP program, Robotaxi PR and the evolution of the autonomous trucking space to the death of VanMoof, the renewal of the Chevy Bolt and the mystery of who might license Tesla's FSD, you'll find it all in the latest Autonocast discussion.

Lightship co-founders Toby Kraus and Ben Parker join part of our Autonocast crew to talk RVs and road trippin', EVs and how their experiences at Tesla influenced their new adventure.

After visiting Teleo's headquarters, Alex Roy insisted co-founder and CEO Romain Clement come on the show. And our conversation, which covers the highs and lows of the AV industry and Clement's new startup, doesn't disappoint.

With Ed's take on the future of Tesla's North American Charging Standard from the last discussion episode aging extremely poorly, the gang reopens the discussion about EV charging. Plus, Kirsten's participation in a new show on MAX, Alex's visit to a carless community, an odd automated driving survey and much more.

San Francisco is ground zero for a lot of the conflicts between the tech sector and society at large, and increasingly that conflict is centering on AVs. This week the gang discusses the technical and social factors at play, and how some AV developer strategies are shifting. Plus, a discussion of Ford's new deal to use Tesla Superchargers.

Trucking has emerged as one of the most interesting and important areas for electrification, and Google/Tesla/Zoox veteran (and all-round car nut) Ali Javidan is in the thick of things with his startup Range Energy. Ali joins the show to explain Range's electrified trailer concept and discuss his wide-ranging and, frankly, incredibly cool experiences at the intersection of mobility and technology.

With the Shanghai auto show underway, Alex, Kirsten and Ed get together to discuss the latest developments and couldn't help but notice some contrasts. In another classic discussion episode the gang breaks down contrasts in EV affordability and the role of driving automation in private vehicles.

The transition to electric vehicles isn't simply a matter of technology, education and communication are critical aspects of developing new markets for all kinds of mobility. This week Matt Teske of Chargeway joins the show to discuss how his company is solving the communication challenges in EV charging, and share his thoughts on the other challenges in the space.

Ed, Kirsten and Alex recently attended the South By Southwest festival, and though the event itself is recovering nicely from the pandemic, the tech sector presence is remarkably dialed back. This is especially noticeable in mobility tech, where the almost nonexistent presence of big future-focused vehicle and technology plays reflects broader challenges in the sector. The gang breaks down some of these issues and the possible roads ahead in another classic discussion episode.

Don Burnette comes back to The Autonocast to give the gang an update on autonomous trucking, the broader AV industry and where his startup fits in.

The gang chats with Cyrus Sigari, whose VC firm Up Partners recently released its first Moving World Report that dissects the macro and micro trends in mobility. The conversation goes far beyond the report though. Learn how up Partners got its start, where Cyrus is investing and what Up Partners-backed startup impressed Alex.

Mobileye founder, president and CEO Amnon Shashua has proposed a new way to describe automated driving. Alex, Ed and Kirsten dig into the topic and make a few new discoveries along the way.

Consumer Reports vehicle technology maven and friend of the show Kelly Funkhouser returns to discuss CR's new rankings for active driver assistance systems, the class of systems pioneered by Tesla Autopilot. Kelly explains why the ranking emphasizes collaborative and driver monitoring features over automation, how critical these elements are to the safety of such systems, where her work ranking them will go from here, and much more.

For CES this year, Ed decided to do something a little different, and invited two science fiction authors to check out the show, attend the infamous Autonocast party, and get an up-close look at the world of mobility tech. In this very special episode, Ed is joined by Patrick McGinty and Joanne McNeil for a lively and wide-ranging discussion of two SciFi authors' impressions from the heart of darkness of the mobility technology hype machine.

The story of automated driving often starts with the DARPA Challenges of 2004-07, but for Jan Becker the story starts well before then. On this week's episode, the AV pioneer and founder of Apex AI describes his own path through a tumultuous decade for the technology, and how the class he teaches at Stanford has evolved to include a variety of critical non-technical lessons.

The gang makes its annual trek to Las Vegas to check out and experience all of the mobility wonders at CES 2023. Does it impress? Blow our minds? Find out in this next episode when Alex, Ed and Kirsten rehash the highs and lows of the world's biggest auto, I mean, tech trade show.

How has emerging driving automation technology been developed and tested on public roads with such a relatively strong safety record? As Waymo's Francesca Favarò explains on this week's episode it has everything to do with the humans behind the wheel. On this week's episode we dive into how Waymo manages fatigue risk among safety operators, why it's so important, and where the landscape of safety standards has room to improve.

The crew was just back together for a week of car shows and conferences in Los Angeles, where they witnessed and discussed the very latest in mobility technology. On this week's episode they discuss it all, from the new Waymo/Zeekr robotaxi and Toyota's sleek new Prius to a retrofuturist Hyundai concept, an electric Fiat and much more.

The gang is back to discuss some big changes in the AV world. Argo AI has shut down and Alex Roy is now adjusting back to life out of the corporate lane. Is the AV industry dead as some suggest? Is ADAS the future worth betting on? Find out on this spicy episode of the Autonocast.

Ever been pulled over by police and wish you had a dashcam and a lawyer in the passenger seat? Ever been in a car crash and wondered what to do? Meet TurnSignl - a new app that provides attorneys-on-demand via live video. Co-Founder Jazz Hampton joins Kirsten and Alex to discuss de-escalation, and how TurnSignl helps make drivers, passengers and law enforcement safer.

Paris Marx is the host of the popular tech-critical podcast Tech Won't Save Us, and the author of a new book called Road to Nowhere: What Silicon Valley Gets Wrong about the Future of Transportation. On this week's episode, Paris joins Kirsten and Ed for a wide-ranging look at his left-of-center critiques of the mobility technology sector and his arguments for a less "solutionist" approach to our mobility challenges.

Jessie Singer's new book There Are No Accidents has made a big splash in the road safety community and far beyond, by interrogating a word that makes most people nod and move on: "accident." On this week's episode, Singer joins Alex, Kirsten and Ed to discuss how she became fascinated with the word, the realities she discovered behind its bland façade, and what it all means.

Ed's latest essay in the New York Times, calling into question the big batteries that have made EVs so popular among American consumers (who can afford them), sparks a wide-ranging discussion in this week's episode. From battery supply chains to American consumer preferences, and from road trips to home charging, almost every aspect of electrification comes together in this fascinating conversation.

Sometimes you just need to let it out and rant a bit, and this week Alex, Kirsten and Ed are each feeling the need to screed. Unsurprisingly a lot of this week's ranting is about Tesla, but the gang also found room in their harts to get ranty about other topics as well. So skip the blood pressure medication, eat something spicy and get ready to breath a little fire as we get fed up with things that really need to change in the mobility tech space.

The gang is back with another classic discussion episode, riffing on the latest and most important news from the mobility technology space. There's just one rule this time: no talking about Tesla. We'll be focusing on that topic next time around.

With the AV sector entering another round of turmoil, we are joined by two founders who lost their startups during previous periods of turmoil but have come back to the driving automation space. Stefan Seltz-Axmacher, who previously appeared on The Autonocast following the failure of Starsky Robotics is back to discuss Polymath Robotics, his new "plug and play" off-road autonomy company. He is joined by Josh Hartung, formerly of Polysync and now the founder of Sygnal, which is Polymath's partner on the hardware side. Together they provide unique perspective on the ever-evolving driving automation space.

Safety is one of the words that comes up most often in discussions about autonomous vehicles, but not many people really understand what the word even means in this complex context. Nat Beuse, VP of Safety at Aurora not only has "the s word" in his job title, its a topic he's thought about and worked on for decades. He joins this week's show for a wide-ranging discussion of safety, public trust, and autonomous vehicles.

Sam Anthony made his first appearance on The Autonocast in 2018, when we discussed his pedestrian intent/prediction startup Perceptive Automata in episode #98. He returns to the show for his first interview since the collapse of that company to reflect on his experience as a founder in the space, his concerns about the sector more broadly, and much more.

Bibhrajit Halder has been a part of the autonomous driving technology space since the days of the DARPA Challenges, working on Caterpillar's early automated mining trucks before working at Ford, Apple and elsewhere. Now the founder and CEO of SafeAI, Halder is back in the mining and heavy construction space and he joins the show to share his perspective on the state of autonomous heavy equipment and its similarities and differences with the more widely-followed robotaxi space.

The gang is back together, and finally has the time to discuss NHTSA's release of ADAS and ADS crash data. We discuss the data, what it does and doesn't mean, and explore the challenges and paths forward for automated driving regulation.

With the internet abuzz over the firing of a Google engineer who came to believe that a company chatbot is sentient, AI expert and deep learning skeptic Gary Marcus joins Alex and Ed to discuss the state of artificial intelligence. From LaMDA's alleged sentience and the problems with the Turing Test to Gary's proposed bet with Elon Musk and AI's role in autonomous driving, this wide-ranging conversation explores some of the most interesting topics in technology.

Arrival is a fascinating company on the brink of putting its bold vision of "microfactory"-made vans, busses and ridehailing vehicles into production. President Avinash Rugoobur joins the show to explain how its 10,000 unit/year microfactories upend the established rules of automaking, how the products enable these dramatic changes and where the whole thing is headed.

The Autonocast gang were all together at Kirsten's TechCrunch Mobility Sessions event recently, where they finally met Taylor Ogan of Snowbull Capital in person. On this week's episode Taylor joins Alex, Kirsten and Ed to discuss the event, the autonomous vehicle renaissance in San Francisco, Snowbull's unique engagement in the online Tesla discussions and more.

With "growth tech" stocks falling generally, and mobility tech companies like Tesla, Lyft and Rivian specifically down since the start of the year, the gang discusses the changing economic conditions for the sector. Plus, everyone is excited to get back together in person and Ed (and only Ed) is excited about nomenclature standardization.

The ability to drive in Manhattan has long been an informal benchmark for autonomous driving. But as the first AVs begin testing in the Big Apple they face an even bigger challenge: proving that they genuinely enhance mobility for everyone. This week Sarah Kaufman of NYU's Rudin Center for Transportation joins the show to discuss her work to ensure that AVs are good citizens of this great city.

Given the technology's transformative potential, there is a surprising dearth of quality Science Fiction written about autonomous vehicles. Into that breach steps Patrick McGinty, whose upcoming novel "Test Drive" explores important themes related to AVs as it follows the lives of three test drivers in a climate crisis-stricken Pittsburgh of the near future. McGinty joins the gang to discuss his excellent new fiction, discuss a wide variety of topics, and make the case for renaissance in AV-related SciFi.

Jason Torchinsky is a true auto media Renaissance Man, covering everything from the weirdest cars you've never heard of to human factors in driving automation and the cosmology of the Pixar Cars franchise cinematic universe. Jason joins the gang this week to discuss all of these things and much more, including his incredibly exciting new website The Autopian (www.theautopian.com).

Friend of the show and mobility pundit David Zipper makes his third appearance on The Autonocast to discuss his recent Washington Post OpEd on self-driving cars (see episode #245 for previous discussion). From there the conversation goes into hype cycles, economic development, the cause(s) of rising road deaths, the lack of results from "Vision Zero" plans in the US and more.

Rafaela Vasquez, the woman behind the wheel during the 2018 crash of an Uber autonomous vehicle prototype, is facing criminal charges for her role in the industry-shaking incident. As we approach the 4-year anniversary of the event and restart of Vasquez's trial, Alex, Kirsten and Ed discuss WIRED's new reporting on the story, and why it is one of the most important stories in AVs and technology more broadly.

The one and only Alex Roy was fired up this week, leading the latest discussion episode through a whirlwind of meaty topics. From Kyle Vogt's return as Cruise CEO to the importance of community engagement for AV companies, and even the question of whether we should be developing driving automation technology at all, there is plenty to sink your teeth into this week.

The asinine "camera vs lidar" debates are blown apart into several, far more interesting pieces in this week's episode, as the gang is joined by longtime friend of the show Tarani Duncan and Jason Devitt, co-founder and CEO of Compound Eye. Discussion covers the multiple approaches to camera-based depth perception, the evolutionary vs ground-up approaches to autonomous vehicles, and a little lidar shade as a treat.

On this week's episode The Autonocats dig into topics so meaty that even a dog shows up! From Cruise opening driverless operations in San Francisco and what that means for the sector's business prospects to Waymo's lawsuit against the DMV to protect trade secrets and what that means for the sector's pursuit of public trust, there's a lot to bark at here... and that's before we even get to Tesla programming FSD to run stop signs!

The Autonocats did not make it to CES in person this year, and were forced to cancel the triumphant return of their annual party there, but they still have hot takes a-plenty! Alex, Kirsten and Ed chop up the big news from the big show, and then dive into their traditional annual predictions.

Anna Haupt is a mobility tech renaissance woman, having worked in everything from the development of the Hövding inflatable bike helmet to the transition at NEVs toward a robotaxi strategy. Now a venture capitalist at Industriefonden, she joins The Autonocast to discuss her wide range of interests, with a special focus on robotaxi design and strategy.

Automotive enthusiasm was once thought to be on the glidepath to extinction, but in recent years the automotive internet has enjoyed a renaissance of car appreciation. Brad Brownell has been at the center of much of that resurgence, helping found paradigm-shifting events and communities like Radwood and now Autopia. Brad joins the show to talk cars, the reinvention of what it means to be a car fan, and the core value of inclusion that ties it all together.

For years there have been complaints about misuse of a statistic showing that humans error is the last link in an often-complex causal chain in fatal crashes. Those complaints have risen to a crescendo in recent weeks, as more prominent voices have risen to denounce the number as a distraction from solutions beyond automation. On this week's episode, the gang discusses the infamous statistic, why it's so divisive, what it says about the sector's relationship with other road safety movements, and how to move forward in a positive direction.

Tesla's confrontation with US auto safety regulators continues to ratchet up, as the automaker pulled a stealth OTA recall of an Autopilot issue that was under active NHTSA investigation. Meanwhile, the respected and outspoken critic of Autopilot safety (among many other topics) Missy Cummings was announced as special safety advisor to NHTSA, prompting an online harassment campaign by Tesla fans. The gang sorts through these developments, while leaving a little time for Alex to report on the annual Self Racing Cars trackday and for Ed to share an NTSB job listing.

The gang is getting back out from behind their computer screens, bringing back tales of test drives and conferences for the latest discussion episode. Kirsten has been the busiest of the bunch, as her first drives of the hot new EVs from RIvian and Lucid (and a factory tour of the latter startup) prompt discussion of their execution and manufacturing. Ed's also just back from Micromobility America, where he notes on some of the changes in that scene, and Alex would tell you what he's been up to but then he'd have to kill you.

When the recently-confirmed NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy tweeted about listening to The Autonocast, the gang had to reach out and ask if she would be willing to make time for her own appearance on the show. Having responded in the affirmative, Chair Homendy has now become the first sitting auto safety official to appear on The Autonocast. From NTSB's evolving mission in the driving automation era to the board's findings in a series of Tesla Autopilot crashes, this sweeping conversation introduces one of the most engaged and forward-thinking auto safety officials working in the field today.

Cars and mobility might not be the first thing you think about when you hear the name Qualcomm, but like other high tech titans the chip maker is betting big on the automotive market. Nakul Duggal is Qualcomm's Senior Vice President and General Manager of Automotive, and he joins the show to discuss his strategy to put the firm's technology at the foundation of next generation vehicles. From the differences between smartphones and cars to Qualcomm's bid for the supplier Veoneer, this week's Duggal explains his approach and ambitions in the automotive sector.

In only its second year of existence, Autonowashing continues to make inroads on the public consciousness in part due to the work of people like Mahmood Hikmet. The Kiwi AV engineer made an incredible Youtube video breaking down the complex issues around partial automation and autonowashing like nobody had before, and he joins the show to discuss his work, and what he's trying to accomplish with it.

Mobility-focused venture capitalist Olaf Sakkers has been a friend of the show for a long time, which is the only reason Kirsten, Alex and Ed agreed to read something called "The Mobility Disruption Framework." We're glad we did though, because Sakkers is far from the kind of empty-headed, buzzword-spouting consultant who has given "mobility disruption" a bad name. Olaf joins this week's episode to explain his funny, insightful book about the trends and technologies transforming the ways we get around, which you can read for yourself at www.yellow.cab.

If the last decade or so of mobility technology tells us anything, it's that putting a camera on a vehicle unlocks a whole world of new opportunities. Our guest this week, Drover AI co-founder and Chief Business Officer Alex Nesic, did precisely that with on-demand scooters and he joins the show to explain the new possibilities his company has unleashed. From regulatory compliance to safety-enhancing ADAS-like features, we discuss the ways that a camera can address some of the biggest challenges that shared scooters present.

Big moves raise strategic questions this week, as Mobileye starts testing in New York, Aurora heads to Wall Street by way of Reid Hoffman's SPAC, and a Financial Times trend piece raises questions about the relationship of ADAS to AV strategy. From the traffic impact of privately-owned AVs to the public's ability to invest in the technology and the wisdom of calling automated driving systems a "driver," Alex, Kirsten and Ed chew through some of the sector's biggest questions in another classic discussion episode.

Public perceptions of Advanced Driver Assistance Systems have been dominated by Tesla's Autopilot, which presents itself as the most advanced Level 2 system by virtue of being more automated than others. But is more automation always better for driver assistance? Seeking answers, Alex and Ed sit down with Nick Sitarski and Derek Caveney of Toyota Motor North America, to understand how Toyota's long-standing principle of jidoka, or human-centered automation, has taken its Teammate ADAS design in a different direction.

With Kirsten out exploring the western wilds, Alex and Ed run amok and revert to their old habits of spending way too much time discussing Tesla. First up, the lads review the latest NHTSA order to report all ADAS and AV-involved crashes, which doesn't mention Tesla specifically but is clearly very much aimed at that company. Further discussion ensues about Andrej Karpathy's recent CVPR talk, the new Plaid Model S's absurd performance and even more absurd user interface.

Everyone has a strategy for the electric, autonomous mobility era, and the gang regularly discusses private sector strategies, but what about nation state competition for the future of transportation? Alex, Kirsten and Ed are joined by Nathan Picarsic of Horizon Advisory to dissect the evolution of China's industrial strategy, from traditional automotive to EVs to AVs and beyond. From Tesla's unique factory deal and recent publicity issues to China's domination of the EV supply chain, geopolitical competition meets mobility technology in this wide-ranging discussion.

The gang discusses a couple of Kirsten's recent scoops that speak to the complex business challenges the autonomous vehicle space is currently negotiating. From Raquel Urtasun's new startup to Aurora (and others) plans to go public, the big players are making some very high-stakes bets about how the sector will shake out. Plus: Tesla loses a top executive, Alex is fair and balanced, and everyone hates the phrase "solving autonomy."

Transit advocates have made autonomous vehicles something of a boogeyman lately, framing the emerging technology as a way to perpetuate the car's mobility monopoly and starve public transit of funding. In reality, transit is one of the most compelling applications and automation is a huge opportunity to dramatically improve public transit. To help explain this opportunity, Nathaniel Horadam of the Center for Transportation and the Environment joins the show to discuss a light-rail style automated bus rapid transit project he's been working on, and the automated transit opportunity more broadly.

Joel Ricks Johnson (aka JJRicks) had already gained a sizable audience for his regular videos of Waymo rides when he took a ride that would capture the public's attention. Joel joins the show to walk the gang through that memorable ride, what went wrong, and how it compares to the more than 1,000 miles of Waymo rides he has experienced so far. If you'd like to check out more of Joel's videos for yourself, just surf over to jjricks.com for links to all of his content.

Even as more misuse of driver assistance systems, and the subsequent crashes and deaths are reported we still see Autonowashing popping up everywhere. From Tesla to TikTok, and from Elon Musk to the mainstream media, people continue to ignore the tragic cost of overstating the capabilities of automated assistance systems. This week the gang discusses a few of the most recent examples, explores a misperception at the heart of some more innocent autonowashing, talks Elon Musk on SNL and pitches a few new ideas for future shows.

By selling its "Level 5" AV development operations to Toyota's Woven Planet Holdings, Lyft has followed its ride-hailing rival Uber out of the AV development business. Founder John Zimmer joins the show to explain the move and what it means for Lyft's evolving relationship with self-driving vehicles.