Christian Klepp  00:00

Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today, I’ll be talking to Aya Saad. She is the partnerships team director and project manager at Vivian agency and influencer and affiliate marketing agency. Aya is also a skilled project manager who excels in affiliate programs and combines expertise in business growth, marketing and client services. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B marketers mission is. Okay. Here we are. Aya Saad, welcome to the show. 

Aya Saad  00:37

Thank you. Thank you for having me. 

Christian Klepp  00:38

It’s great to be connected. Aya, I’m really looking forward to this conversation, because I think there’s a lot of untapped opportunities in B2B when it comes to this particular topic. So let’s dive in. So you are on a mission to build communities for brands by connecting ambassadors and their audiences to products. So for this conversation, let’s focus on the following topic, how to launch and manage affiliate and influencer programs for B2B. So let’s kick off the conversation with these with this question, right? So what do you think is the untapped opportunity for B2B regarding affiliate and influencer programs? Maybe we start out by explaining what that is, because maybe some people out there are not familiar with it. 

Aya Saad  01:23

Sure. So having an affiliate or an influencer program is basically having people who have a network of potential customers that fit your target persona, promote your product and earn commissions from doing that. So every time they sell your product, or they provide you with a qualified lead, depending on your compensation structure. And we’re gonna, I think we’re gonna mention that a little bit down the line, when we dive more into the B2B, they earn commissions per sale or per qualified leads. So that’s essentially the concept of affiliate and influencer marketing is having people representing your brand and reaching potential customers that you cannot reach in typical ways, I’d say untapped opportunities. So I don’t really see a lot of B2B affiliate programs. I mean, it’s it’s getting there, but it’s not there yet. 

Aya Saad  02:17

Compared to B2C, I think the whole thing is still an untapped opportunity, but off of the top of my head, I’d say actually utilizing niche influencers and thought leaders in your niche and in your industry to promote your product to their networks, they have the reach to those decision makers that you’re seeking after as a B2B company or as a B2B product. So utilizing them and having partnerships with them can really have a huge impact. 

Aya Saad  02:46

Another thing is actually, and this might be a bit unusual, but employee advocacy, turning your own employees, with their networks, into micro influencers who share content and can create an authentic reach and experience about your product to potential customers as well. 

Aya Saad  03:04

I’d say another thing also that a lot of B2B companies overlook is the law, what we call long tail affiliates. And by that I mean the much, much smaller affiliates, like a very small blog or a very small community or a very specific industry newsletter, these actually prove to have a much higher conversion rate just because they are very targeted towards your niche, and it’s a very closed community, and it’s kind of close knit, and people actually follow it and remain up to date with it, and it could be a great potential opportunity for you to market for your products. 

Aya Saad  03:41

One final thing, also, I see it’s overlooked a lot are co marketing opportunities. So basically, as a brand, you can partner with a brand that’s complementary to yours and create either special offerings or promote each other in a different way. These types of co-partnerships would actually put your product within reach for customers that you couldn’t reach otherwise. And also, it doesn’t really mean that you are in competition. There is no direct competition. You’re just complimentary brands that serve the same audience, and you’re working together to promote both of your products.

Christian Klepp  04:22

Yeah, no, that’s absolutely correct. And I think that there are some really great points that you brought up here, and I think it’s worth going back and unpacking them a bit more for the benefit of the audience. That is, as I said before, not very familiar with affiliate or influencer programs. Let’s start with the first thing that you said, talking about the untapped opportunities and utilizing influencers to promote companies, products or maybe even solutions. Right? So what would you say to B2B customers, if you bring this up as a proposed. Strategy, and they look at you with braced eyebrows and say, well, isn’t that more of a consumer facing tactic? Isn’t that more for like, B2C? Why would you why would you even suggest that for B2B? Like, how do you handle that kind of objection? I don’t know if you’ve ever encountered that before, but like, um, how would you deal with that? 

Aya Saad  05:20

How I typically see it is that the concept of affiliate and influencer marketing can be applied regardless of your business model, whether it’s B2C or B2B. The whole point of affiliate marketing is getting your product in front of the people who can potentially buy it, and the key to doing that is finding the people who have reached to those customers or potential customers, and while it may look a lot different for B2B, like I wouldn’t go after an Instagram influencer, for example, to promote a high tech solution for enterprises, but I can find someone who is a thought leader in that industry and can be able to recommend that product to other decision makers. So it’s really about finding the right people to get your product in front of those customers. And that’s it. This is the whole concept behind it, and this can be applied whether it’s a B2C or a B2B product. 

Christian Klepp  06:16

Okay, okay, that’s fair well, that’s a fair point. That’s a fair point. Um, okay, so you another point that you brought up was on the topic of employee advocacy, which I totally agree with. I think this is really, there can be really a gold mine here if it’s done the right way. But I think more often than not, in B2B. Let me see if I can phrase this properly, there might be hesitation on the side of employees to push themselves out as the face of the brand, right? And that’s what’s needed also as part of employee advocacy. So how would you go about helping a client that wants to push this out? But perhaps they have employees that are not really entirely bought into the concept.

Aya Saad  07:01

So it’s actually the same way that we reach out to typical B2C influencers or typical potential affiliates in general. It’s the compensation. If they think that this is something that would properly compensate them, and they see that this is something that’s going to earn them money with, I’d say, a few posts that they make, or a few networking opportunities that they attend. If you really put your offer out there to them in the right way and actually structure that offer very properly in the beginning to ensure that it’s attractive, then you got a deal. And 90% of the time, no one really says no to money and the potential to earn and grow. Because why not? Like, instead of you just having your typical salary as our employee on top of that, you could earn commissions on every contract you bring us, and you could earn commissions on every qualified lead you bring us on or on every booked call. And this is something that’s on top of them, using things that you that they already do. So when I would target those employees, I would pick ones who already have some I’d say their LinkedIn profile has a lot of connections. They’ve already posting regularly. They have a lot of engagement. So someone you’re already doing that, so why not actually utilize it to earn extra money?

Christian Klepp  08:21

Yeah, absolutely Money Talks, huh? So no, but you were, you’re absolutely right, and it was good that you brought that up, that there are certain criteria that these people have to fulfill. It’s not just okay. You’re an employee of the organization, and then there you go. You can be, you can be an employee advocate, right? They have to have a certain number of followers. I’m assuming they have to already be putting content out there, the content and I think most importantly, it’s not just about putting content out there. I mean, there’s people that work at companies that are just putting company content out, right? They have to put out content that is getting good engagement as well, right? So there. So that’s how we build up the followers. Okay, fantastic. The third one, which I think is extremely interesting, because I’ve done this in the past as well, is partnering with other companies whose services are probably complementary to yours. And there can be a lot of benefits to doing that for B2B companies out there that are thinking about doing this but have not done it before. What advice would you give them about how to approach this?

Aya Saad  09:25

First thing is, don’t be scared to do it. This actually has been one of the most successful approaches overall, just because, as someone who is a higher up decision maker, and I’m looking for viable options for my company, whether it’s let’s assume it’s in tech, for example, and I see this SaaS option that I was really looking at is also feature that is collaborating with something that I’m already using, for example, like the project management tool that the whole company uses, recommends that SAS for this specific service. Or for this specific solution, and then this is an immediate trust that’s gained in that product. And I would definitely put that higher up on my options when comparing it to others.

Aya Saad  10:12

 Second thing also, if they have, like, some sort of collaboration opportunities where it’s they would offer companies who use both, like a certain type of discount, or if you buy this, then you get a free month of that, and vice versa, something like that. These everyone is looking to cut down on costs and the technology they use, for example, or anything basically that serves their company and having these things like a one thing fits all, one thing that has all the solutions that I need. It’s a no brainer that they would go for it.

Christian Klepp  10:50

Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, there’s definitely my one size fits all, right. It depends on the vertical. Depends on what stage the company is at.

Aya Saad  10:58

Of course. 

Christian Klepp  10:58

Have they? Have they done this before? Is this their first time? So there’s a lot of factors to take into consideration, right? 

Aya Saad  11:05

Yeah, of course. 

Christian Klepp  11:07

All right, let’s move on to the next question, and this can get this list can get quite exhausted, but try to just go at it from a top level point of view. Okay, so tell us a bit about the do’s and don’ts of affiliate and influencer marketing specifically when it comes to B2B.

Aya Saad  11:23

I wouldn’t actually specify something for B2B. This is something that I recommend in affiliate and influencer marketing overall. The very first thing that you need to do when you’re starting affiliate and influencer marketing is having a proper plan and strategy in place. This just plans out everything that you want to do, what you want to achieve, who are your target, in terms of influencers and affiliates, what do you expect from them? How will you compensate them? Do you have room for bonuses? Do you have room for a tier, type of commissions, for incentives? All of this, don’t go in without planning and just launch an affiliate program and say, hey, I’ll give you this amount if you promote my product. No. 

Aya Saad  12:08

Have a proper plan and also niche down target people who are most engaged in your niche and are good representatives of your brand. Do not open this to everyone, as we mentioned, for example, for the employee advocacy, we wouldn’t just offer this to everyone, but we would offer it to someone, for example, who has pretty good content on their LinkedIn profile. They have the connections and they’re already posting, and they build their engagement. So don’t be too general when you’re offering the affiliate and influencer marketing opportunity, just because not everyone will be able to reach your target customer, and this is the whole point of it. So just seek the people who can put your product in front of the people who would buy it. 

Aya Saad  12:54

Second, third thing, I would say, affiliate and influencer marketing are long term partnerships. So do not settle for okay, I recruited that person, and they promoted me once or twice, and they’ve driven to me a couple of good leads or a couple of sales, and that’s it. This is a long term partnerships, and you need to put your side of effort in order to maintain that partnership, because if your offer goes out of date at some point and another company is offering something better, then the affiliate is just going to move on to someone else and start promoting them more than they are promoting you. 

Aya Saad  13:29

Last thing would be to prioritize the platforms and narrow down the channels first, where your B2B buyers are at. So LinkedIn, industry specific blogs, professional communities, narrow down those channels first, and I would also recommend actually looking at how your customers learned about you in the first place. So your existing customers, how did they find you? This would give you insights on what channels do they follow? And probably, if you’re at a phase where you’ve already done some marketing, overall, you’re probably mentioned in a few blogs, and you have some things out there, so social media and all of that. So knowing and learning how your customers, your current customers, found you, is also key to targeting who are the influencers and potential affiliates that you want to target.

Christian Klepp  14:21

Okay, well, that’s a really great list. And what about the don’ts? Like, what? What shouldn’t you do?

Aya Saad  14:27

The very first thing I always say when I’m asking, When I’m asked about don’ts is, do not go after a number of followers or the reach. Don’t go after that. Go after the engagement instead, and go after the relevance. Relevance is everything when it comes to affiliate and influencer marketing, because if you find someone with a lot of followers and your product is just not relevant to the rest of their content, it doesn’t look authentic, it doesn’t look organic, then it’s just not gonna work. It’s not gonna perform. So this is my biggest don’t. Go after a big follower number, go after engagement, go after relevance. 

Christian Klepp  15:04

Absolutely, absolutely. So don’t chase the vanity metrics, right? Like, as we say, as we say in podcasting, don’t always look at the number of downloads and subscribers, and especially in B2B, like, you know, do you really need 100,000 followers, right? Questionable. And it’s the same thing. And it’s the same thing for B2B. I mean, I’m just going to give an example. Let’s say you’re doing an influencer marketing initiative for a company that’s selling like automotive spare parts. Do they need 200,000 followers? Questionable. All right. 

Aya Saad  15:38

Very questionable.

Christian Klepp  15:41

Okay.

Aya Saad  15:42

How many of those 200,000 followers are actually gonna buy your product? Actually needed? 

Christian Klepp  15:47

Right.

Aya Saad  15:48

Probably a fraction.

Christian Klepp  15:50

Right. Oh, you just made me think of another like follow up question, Aya. And I don’t know if you’ve dealt with this before, I’m assuming you have, but um, what’s your take on those that are trying to push out artificial engagement there, because, you know, we You did say, like, don’t focus on the vanity metrics. But you know, it’s just human nature. Some people just cannot help themselves, because they need to show impressive numbers to somebody higher up, and then they resort to this type of tactic. But what’s your advice to these people.

Aya Saad  16:21

So my advice is that if you want something that converts at the end of the day and actually brings in the sales, then focus on the engagement and the relevance. If you just are looking for exposure, we do collaborate with like really big influencers and 100k plus, but for these types of campaigns, I don’t really focus on sales. I’m not seeking sales. I’m not seeking the engagement. I’m seeking the exposure that I could get from that campaign. So if you are after the follower count and you want that exposure, then this is just it. Your goal for that campaign is exposure, not affiliate sales or not affiliate referrals. Of course, there are a lot of influencers who do have a high number of followers along with the engagement, because they really worked into the platform. So these would work on both sides, both the sales and also the exposure.

Christian Klepp  17:21

Absolutely, absolutely. You brought it up when you were talking about the do’s for affiliate marketing and influencer marketing. But talk to us about the importance of conducting the right research and having the right strategy in place before you implement any campaigns. Like, why is it so important to do all that due diligence upfront?

Aya Saad  17:45

The importance of doing the due diligence upfront is it actually minimizes your failures down the line, so when? And it doesn’t mean that you’re not going to fail at all. There are going to be failures, and there are some things that are just not going to work out for you, but having a good solid strategy, having a good system, having done your research and targeting the people that you actually think that they can reach your target audience, and you also have some data to back this up, does put you on the road to success. When you go in and not knowing what you’re doing or without a plan, you’re basically just asking everyone who is interested in earning from this product to promote your product. And then you might end up having, like, a couple of people who are selling or doing a few sales here and there. But this is not scalable, and it’s not productive down the line.

Christian Klepp  18:43

Good. I did have another follow up question, and I’m sorry to put you on the spot here, but I think it’s important. I think it’s important for B2B marketers to understand this, especially those that are thinking about doing influencer or affiliate marketing, at some point they have to go to the senior management of their company, and try to, like, pitch this to them. And one of the hesitations, or I think the objections, that most likely is going to come back is, well, we’ve never done this before. How do we know that it’s going to work? Right? So how do you address those doubts? Because I’m sure they have them in B2C as well, right?

Aya Saad  19:18

Yeah, typically what we do in these cases, we do provide case studies of similar models. And I know this might be a bit on the rare side for B2B businesses. It might not be as feasible, but it really helps the decision maker to actually visualize the process. So basically, I wouldn’t just tell them, hey, we’re going to get those influencers and they’re going to promote us? No, I would find an example, a really solid example of that type of influencer that I’m thinking of in my strategy, and say, Hey, look at their posts. Look how much engagement they’re getting. Look at what type of people are actually engaging with them. This CEO (Chief Executive Officer) commented on their post and his interested in his insights. This CEO has been engaging a lot with that person, etc, and this is helping the decision maker visualize what their brand can do in that dynamic. Would really help them make the decision.

Christian Klepp  20:17

Okay, that’s absolutely right. That’s absolutely right. Okay, so I call this one the Lego question, right? So break it down for us. What are some of these key components? And you’ve mentioned some of them already. What are some of these key components that you need in order to have a successful affiliate or influencer campaign? 

Aya Saad  20:37

I’m gonna sound like a broken record, but again, research, research, research, do proper research and have a solid strategy. And your strategy should include who you’re targeting and also how you can compensate them. And into the compensation structure, you really need to account for not having a tail a stale compensation structure, meaning that you need to always provide growth opportunities to these affiliates, or otherwise, as I mentioned, they’re going to go elsewhere. 

Aya Saad  21:08

Also, your strategy needs to be solid but flexible. So it you need to have a concrete steps of what you’re going to do next and targeting these people for this reason, etc. But it also needs to be flexible, and it needs to be adaptable, so that you can take the data of the actual results you’ve achieved and apply it and tweak that strategy and improve it accordingly. Another thing would be to be consistent with your outreach. So you need to do really consistent outreach, proper follow ups, be super organized with what you’re doing, what your choice of words is, what you’re saying, how you’re representing your product, how you’re pitching your offer to those potential affiliates and influencers, because it makes all the difference. Also ensuring that you have dedicated and consistent support to your affiliates, because again, this is even more important than compensation, because the if the partners feel like their questions are not answered, their needs are not being met, they’re being neglected, they’re just going to go elsewhere as well. So it’s not only about the money, but actually providing resources and proper support to those affiliates. 

Aya Saad  22:22

You providing that resource is actually making them believe it even more that you’re setting them up for success. Always have room for bonuses, incentives and growth opportunities. Again, in your compensation structure, you need to account for that from the very beginning. You don’t really want to go too high with what you’re offering, and you don’t want to be too low. You need to be moderate, but also have proper incentives.

Christian Klepp  22:47

Yeah, somewhere in the middle, all right, yeah, no, I like what you said about allocating the right resources, but also having, like, that dedicated point of contact. And I think that applies across the board. That’s not just for affiliate or influencer marketing, right? Like, there needs to be a person that’s responsible for working with, let’s call them partners, right? They probably all have these FAQs (frequently asked questions), these questions that they that they need answers to, and there needs to be somebody on the company side that’s going to help them and make them feel like, okay, you know, yes, you are working for us and on behalf of our company and our brand, but we are also here to support you, to ensure that you will be successful, because your success is definitely in our interest, right? 

Aya Saad  23:36

Exactly. 

Christian Klepp  23:37

Okay, I’m really sorry. I’m gonna, I just have to pull up another question again, and it’s, it’s not to put you on the spot, but I think it’s, look, it’s 2025, and, you know, we, it wouldn’t make sense to avoid this question. All right, so, AI, right. How have you seen that? How have you seen artificial intelligence impact affiliate or influencer marketing, and I’m not when I say impact, I don’t necessarily mean that in a negative way. It can be constructive as well, right? But what’s your take on that?

Aya Saad  24:14

It depends. Are you asking about the AI influencer trend that we have recently been saying, or are you asking about AI technology to help with affiliate and influencer marketing in general?

Christian Klepp  24:24

Both.

Aya Saad  24:25

Okay, so regarding the influencer I really don’t mind the concept, because if they have the reach to the right customers, again, it’s fine, whether it’s AI or AI or not, it’s fine with technology. I definitely say that finding and recruiting affiliates and influencer marketing has definitely improved with the help of a lot of AI tools, and I don’t mean the basic ones, but there are super specific platforms for influencer marketing, and they do utilize AI technology in terms of filtering, finding with certain keywords, and this really helps narrow down the people that you want to contact, and makes your work overall more efficient. 

Christian Klepp  25:12

Yeah, I suppose, if it helps you to save time, makes the work more efficient, like you said, with the research, like, for example, instead of spending hours going through, let’s say, a search engine looking for those specific influencers, if AI can help you to filter them out. Yeah, filter out. I think it’s the right word. Like you tag them, or you put in certain prompts or keywords that you’re looking for an influencer in this specific industry, and probably with this many followers, this is the budget range, so you start narrowing it down a little bit, right? And if you can exactly, if you can do that search within Well, seconds, minutes instead of hours, then yes, by all means, right?

Aya Saad  25:57

Yeah, I would say, though, that I don’t think that we’re still at a level where you can completely depend on those results. So one thing, for example, that we do is that we always hand pick the influencers or the potential affiliates. So while we do utilize influencer marketing tools to kind of narrow down the millions of influencers out there to match specific criteria, we still put in the time to hand pick, check the content and make sure that this is actually 100% fit for the product that we’re seeking them for.

Christian Klepp  26:30

Right. Yeah, no, absolutely. It requires human intervention at the end of the day. Don’t rely 100% on AI, yeah, no. Fantastic, fantastic. Okay. Aya, we get to the point in the conversation where we’re talking about actionable tips, and you’ve given us quite a bit already, right? But just imagine there’s somebody out there that’s listening to this conversation between you and I, and they want to start implementing this right away. What are some, let’s say, three to five things that you would advise them to do and take action on right now, with regards to affiliate or influencer marketing.

Aya Saad  27:04

Alright. So I would put them basically, I would say what we’ve just discussed into action items. So first thing that you want to do is do your proper research, and that research is also really deep, diving into your customer personas and where your customers are reachable, online and offline, that’s a very important thing to build your strategy on. 

Aya Saad  27:25

And then, of course, building your strategy, and the strategy would not only be who you’re targeting, but also the compensation structure. I’d say that for B2C, it’s very easy to put a cost per action compensation structure, but it’s a bit different for B2B, because many of the products are not something that’s shoppable or that you would click here to subscribe or buy and pay immediately. It’s especially if the product is like something that’s customizable or has a different pricing for every company and depending on their needs and all of that. So I say, I’d say the most common compensation structure for B2B would be cost per lead, where basically the affiliates are doing lead acquisition for you, and then your sales team would, in turn close them. And then it depends you could still pay per lead. Or you could pay for per qualified lead, so CPQL (Cost Per Qualified Lead), where you have a certain criteria, and if the lead matches all of that criteria, it does. And you could also do a small payment for the lead itself, or you could and then if the lead actually converts, you end up giving them a percentage from the total of the contract. And this, I think something would be of most interest, especially for higher ticket affiliates who are not who would be really narrowing down on the quality for you and getting you those deals that has high potential to convert. 

Aya Saad  28:55

After that, you really need to identify a system of how this would work whether you would have like a tracking system on your website or even a Google form, but you need to have a proper system to be able to track your campaigns properly. And then also, you need to have a lot of transparency with your affiliates. They need to be able to view everything they have brought in, what converted, what did not, and all of these data needs to be very transparently communicated to affiliates. 

Aya Saad  29:25

And then after these three things are settled and you have a plan already, you start identifying the potential affiliates and getting contact information based on your strategy, and you plan a multi channel outreach strategy and launch your program. Or you could come to us at Vivian Agency and save yourself all the time, and we do all of that for you.

Christian Klepp  29:50

That was the point of this whole exercise. 

Aya Saad  29:54

Yeah. 

Aya Saad  29:55

Yeah. 

Christian Klepp  29:55

No, but you know, thank you. Thank you for sharing that you’ve actually unpacked a lot there. Let me just. Quickly recap for the benefit of the audience. So of course, doing your proper research is the first step, then building a strategy, which includes your compensation, identifying a system of how this will work. And fourth is identifying potential affiliates and then start reaching out to them. 

Christian Klepp  30:18

Fantastic, fantastic. Okay, I’m gonna move us on to the next question, which I call the Love it or hate it question, metrics. At some point, and you’ve you’ve talked about it already, but at some point, B2B, marketers have to prove that these initiatives are working to somebody. And when I say prove that they are working, I mean that in numerical form, right? So what type of metrics from a top level point of view? Once again, because I know this can get quite granular, but what are some top level metrics they should be paying attention to? When it comes to affiliate and influencer marketing. 

Aya Saad  30:54

I would actually divide that into four categories. So first category would be just top of the funnel, which is maybe you could measure it by website traffic or the content engagement, or the impact that this content had. So maybe this certain influencer attacked you on social media, you gain the 100 followers that day, and you see the impact of the content. So this is like top of the funnel. 

Aya Saad  31:17

And then middle of the funnel would be the quality of the leads that the affiliate is driving to you. And this is something I’d say more specifically, B2B. For B2C, I’d say the quality of the sales, meaning that they’re not resulting in a lot of refunds, and they’re not, of course, something that’s fraudulent sale or something like that. So the quality of the leads or sales that they’re driving to you. 

Aya Saad  31:43

And then bottom of the funnel would be the conversion rates, so how many of the leads that they’ve driven to you actually booked demos or made a sale and actually ended up getting a contract with your company. 

Aya Saad  31:55

And then finally, would be retention and return on investment. So this also maybe would relate a bit to the lead quality and then for the retention. What’s the lifetime value of the customers that are acquired through that channel? So is that affiliate bringing you a customer that’s gonna contract you for one year or three years or just three months. What’s the lifetime value for that customer? Because this affects the return on investment. Because if you pay them that amount, but in return, you’re earning X amount, then that’s a good investment. So it’s kind of how I would measure it, and then overall partner performance on an individual level, I always look at that on a very individual level and what channels they’re utilizing, because these are the type of insights that I need to change my strategy and tweak my strategy in order to continuously improve what I’m doing. 

Christian Klepp  32:57

Thanks for sharing that. And I’m going to tell you right now that there are two metrics that you just mentioned, that the senior management and the board are going to care about, and nothing more. 

Aya Saad  33:08

Yeah, of course.

Christian Klepp  33:09

Conversion and retention and ROI (Return on Investment), everything else is going to go right, like, but no, but you’re absolutely right and, and I was kind of anticipating that the answer was going to be a little bit more detailed, because there are so many different areas to look at, so many different attributes to measure, and it’s depending on what stage of the marketing funnel the leads find themselves in, right or the campaign.

Aya Saad  33:38

Yeah, I would say that the bottom and middle of the funnel are just more of maybe the decision makers wouldn’t really care about those, but they’re really important for whoever is running the affiliate and influencer program because they are also insightful on how this is going to progress. So if I’m seeing that the content from this specific affiliate has had no engagement at all, no impact whatsoever, then I’m not really going to spend a lot of time on similar affiliates, but instead, I’m going to shift my strategy to others and so on. 

Christian Klepp  34:13

Well, absolutely, and it’s going back to a point you raised earlier in the conversation, right? To keep that strategy flexible, not be to focus on one aspect of the entire campaign or the entire initiative, right? 

Aya Saad  34:25

Yeah. 

Christian Klepp  34:26

Okay, fantastic. Okay, Aya, please get up on your soapbox. What is the status quo in your area of expertise that you passionately disagree with, and why?

Aya Saad  34:39

Because we’re mainly talking about B2B and and it’s pretty obvious what I’m just about to say right now, but many B2B companies believe that influencer marketing is only for B2C, and they really passionately believe that this is the case, and it’s really not. At the end of the day, from my perspective, and why I really disagree with that is that people buy from people, and people prefer authentic experiences, and influencer and affiliate marketing bridges that gap, so it just creates this instant trust when I see someone I follow or someone I’m connected with promoting this product that I maybe was hesitant a couple of weeks ago in trying or buying, and this applies in the professional and B2B setting as well.

Christian Klepp  35:33

I totally agree with that. It’s the same, you know, when you’re talking about B2B podcasting, right? Like it’s the same, like, people are always asking first about, Okay, how many downloads? How many subscribers and like, do you really need? Again, I brought this up earlier, right? Do you need 100,000 followers? If you are a podcast, say, for example, that is focusing on aeronautics engineers. That’s a micro niche, right? 

Aya Saad  36:00

Yeah. 

Christian Klepp  36:00

If you get 300 people, and all of them are in that particular vertical, then I think you’ve already achieved your goal, right? So it’s the same, right? It’s the same, absolutely, absolutely, okay. Now here comes the bonus question, and not many people know this, but you’re the first person that I’ve interviewed on this show, who’s from Egypt, right? And, and I think you’re also,  are you based in Alexandria? Is that correct? 

Aya Saad  36:26

Yeah, I am.

Christian Klepp  36:27

Yeah. So fun fact, there was the Lighthouse of Alexandria, which was built a long time ago, and it crashed into the sea during an earthquake, if I’m not mistaken, right? Yeah. So when people outside of Egypt think of your country. The first thing that comes to mind, sorry, pyramids and mommies, right? 

Aya Saad  36:48

Yeah. 

Christian Klepp  36:48

So what is one thing about Egypt you wish people around the world knew more about and why?

Aya Saad  36:58

I’m really proud of the fact that people do identify immediately with the pyramids and the mummies and the very rich culture that we have, but there’s also more to that. We have, a lot more than just that culture, and many times I feel like people are just stuck in that point of time where we had the pyramids and the amazing museums and all of that, and we still love them, of course. But there is way more to Egypt than that. Brilliant people out there, brilliant developments. And I wish that people would not really look at Egyptians, or at Egypt just from the micro lens of seeing the pyramids, and that’s it. There is a lot more to Egypt than that. 

Christian Klepp  37:49

Absolutely agree. Absolutely agree. So you don’t want people to just, you know, when they think of Egypt, they think of antiquity, right? Ancient times.

Aya Saad  37:58

Exactly, and we’ve evolved since then. 

Christian Klepp  38:01

I’m sure you have.

Aya Saad  38:03

Yeah, yeah. It’s just that sometimes people don’t really believe that. They think, for example, that Cairo or Giza is just the area where the pyramids is, and that’s hit, and Cairo is, like, huge. It’s a huge city, and has a lot of different people.

Christian Klepp  38:20

Yeah. 

Aya Saad  38:21

And places and everything. 

Christian Klepp  38:23

Yeah, exactly. I think I read it somewhere. Isn’t Cairo, the city with the largest population on the African continent?

Aya Saad  38:32

Yeah, I believe.

Christian Klepp  38:33

I think so, right? And you also have a very Egypt also has a very large young population, right? That’s, which is also a very interesting statistic, which also means that you have a bit a larger, younger population that is internet savvy, right? 

Aya Saad  38:48

Yeah, true. 

Christian Klepp  38:49

Right? So there’s a lot of benefits to that as well, right,?

Aya Saad  38:52

Yeah. And I feel like definitely the Internet has helped with that, and social media, and having a ton of social media influencers representing Egypt and the culture and everything else out there to the world definitely made a difference on educating people and just giving them the insights that we go beyond the culture. It’s not just we’re not all revolving around the pyramids and riding camels in the desert, you know.

Christian Klepp  39:22

Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you so much for coming on the show. This has been such a fun but also very informative conversation. So thanks again for your time. Please. Quick introduction to yourself and how people can get in touch with you. And one last question, how does somebody with a degree in pharmacology, find yourself in the world of affiliate and influencer marketing.

Aya Saad  39:46

Yeah, it’s a funny story, actually. So for everyone, my name is Aya, and I’m Egyptian, and I do have a degree in clinical pharmacy from Alexandria University. And. I’ve started working in marketing as early as my second year in college. I just wanted to be more independent, and just went out there and took the first job I got, but it just developed from that. So after a few years working in companies, I decided to work as a freelancer, and I started teaching myself different things and skills, and I actually landed the job as an outreach manager, which led to me also falling into affiliate and influencer marketing. And it kind of stuck there. I thought that this is something that I’m really passionate about and I believe in, and it worked out from there. So I’ve been doing affiliate and influencer marketing for a little bit over four years now. And as I mentioned, I started as a self taught freelancer, but now I’m partnership director of Vivian Agency, where we connect ambassadors with, sorry, where I connect brands with their communities through affiliate and influencer marketing or ambassadors as well. And, yeah, you can reach me at [email protected] that’s my email. And you can also visit www.vivianagency.com book a call with us, or just fill out the contact form and I’ll be in touch.

Christian Klepp  41:22

Fantastic, fantastic. A true renaissance woman in every regard. Yeah, once again. Aya, thank you so much for your time. Shukran, I’m sorry that’s, that’s as far as my Arabic goes.

Aya Saad  41:36

No, that’s, that’s actually pretty good. Not bad at all. 

Christian Klepp  41:38

Thank you. Thanks again. And take care, stay safe and talk to you soon. 

Aya Saad  41:43

Excellent. Thank you so much. Bye.