Behavioral Grooves Podcast

Have you ever felt stuck between two seemingly opposite choices or found yourself seeing the world in absolutes? This week, we’re joined by Dr. Wendy Smith, author of Both/And Thinking, to uncover how embracing paradoxes can help us tackle life’s toughest problems. Wendy shares how shifting from an “either/or” to a “both/and” mindset can unlock better decision-making, foster creativity, and provide solutions to today’s complex challenges—from personal dilemmas to organizational leadership.

In our Grooving Session, we dive deeper into the concept of “both/and” thinking and explore its applications in leadership, personal decision-making, and workplace dynamics. We examine the evolutionary roots of black-and-white thinking and discuss why embracing nuance is more important than ever in our interconnected world. Whether you’re navigating hybrid work policies, parenting challenges, or major life decisions, this perspective offers a fresh lens to solve problems both big and small.

The easiest choice you’ll make today? Saying yes to this episode! Join us for an insightful conversation with Wendy and find out why even ice cream dilemmas are worth a second thought.

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Introduction - Ice Cream Dilemmas and Both/And Thinking

[6:14] Speed round with Wendy Smith

[14:22] Understanding Paradoxes and Both/And Thinking

[23:19] Practical Applications of Both/And Thinking

[33:25] Challenges and Emotional Complexity

[40:12] Using Both/And Thinking in Leadership and Personal Life

[45:58] Desert Island Music

[47:42] Grooving Session: How to Embrace Both/And Thinking in Your Everyday Life

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Both/And Thinking: Embracing Creative Tensions to Solve Your Toughest Problems

Wendy Smith, PhD

Thinking, Fast and Slow - Daniel Kahneman

What is Both/And Thinking?

The Clash - Should I Stay or Should I Go 

Wicked - Defying Gravity

How can the science of persuasion reshape your workplace?

This week, we sit down with Steve Martin to discuss the principles behind his latest book, Influence at Work, and unpack the “influence equation”—a powerful framework that blends evidence, economics, and emotion to drive ethical and effective persuasion. Steve shares actionable strategies for crafting influence, highlighting how small tweaks in incentives and timing can lead to surprising and meaningful behavioral shifts.

We also dive into why behavioral insights shouldn’t be confined to a single department. Steve argues for embedding these principles across an organization, emphasizing how doing so can elevate decision-making, foster collaboration, and drive positive outcomes at every level.

Whether you're leading a team, managing a project, or navigating workplace dynamics, this conversation is packed with actionable wisdom to help you integrate behavioral science into your day-to-day decisions and harness the power of influence for good. Tune in to learn how understanding and applying these insights can transform not just your organization, but your role within it.

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Intro: The Power of Influence in Behavioral Science

[3:51] Speed Round with Steve Martin

[10:56] The Influence Equation and its Applications

[17:12] Everyday Applications of Behavioral Science

[35:41] The Role of Emotion and Timing in Influence

[42:35] Desert Island Music

[46:21] Grooving Session: Influence, the Importance of Incentives, and the Future of Behavioral Science

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Influence At Work: Capture attention, connect with others, convince people to act

About Steve Martin

Global Association of Applied Behavioral Scientists

Influence by Robert Cialdini

ELO - Mr. Blue Sky 

New Order - Blue Monday 

The Beatles - Come Together 

Between job uncertainty, political tension, holiday anxiety, and the general state of the world, stress and emotional exhaustion are at an all-time high. In this special ‘emergency episode’ ahead of the holidays, we break down why humans often unintentionally create stress through perception—and how our brain’s negativity bias amplifies it.

As you prep your holiday meal, tune in for science-backed strategies to reduce stress, from naming emotions and reframing self-talk to cultivating gratitude. We’ll also explore the power of healthy habits like sleep, exercise, and digital detoxes, plus how social connections—whether with loved ones or strangers—can help build resilience.

Later in the episode, producer Caroline shares her inspiring journey fostering rescue dogs and how it strengthened her sense of purpose and self-efficacy during tough times.

Join us for this timely discussion, and connect with the Groove Community on Facebook to share your own stress-busting tips. Wishing you a happy and healthy Thanksgiving!

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Emotional exhaustion and stressors

[5:25] Coping with stress and emotional awaredness

[15:27] Gratitude and journaling practices

[26:08] Healthy habits and reducing stress

[34:58] Social connection and purpose

[39:51] Volunteering and personal growth

[45:12] Conclusion: Managing stress and finding community

 ©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Daily Shift Journal

Join our Groove Community!

“A Life Worth Breathing” by Max Strom

Follow Caroline’s Foster Journeys!

What makes a workplace truly thrive? This week, Brad Shuck returns to share how practicing gratitude as an intentional discipline can transform employee engagement and appreciation. We dive into Brad’s three key factors driving workplace culture and productivity, exploring real-world examples illustrating how companies can breathe new life into struggling cultures.

Brad challenges the traditional approach to workplace morale—hint: pizza parties won’t cut it. He emphasizes that culture isn’t a top-down directive; it grows from the ground up. While managers and team leaders may not control the entire organizational culture, their influence at the team level is powerful. They play a vital role in fostering belonging and purpose for employees.

If you’re ready to spark a workplace revolution—one where employees feel safe to speak up, innovation thrives, and gratitude becomes second nature—tune in to hear Brad’s firsthand strategies for transforming your company culture today.

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Intro - Gratitude in corporate culture

[5:35] Speed Round with Brad Shuck

[10:54] The role of gratitude in organizational success

[14:42] What role do leaders play in shaping culture?

[22:31] The challenges of cultivating gratitude in a fast-paced work culture

[37:18] Desert Island Music

[41:02] Grooving Session: Work, gratitude, and psychological safety

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Brad Shuck

Studies by Brad (et al…)

Above the Line vs Below the Line Leadership

What is Psychological Safety?

Leonard Cohen - Hallelujah 

Mumford & Sons - Ghosts That We Knew 

Woody Guthrie - Tear the Fascists Down 

What would you do differently if you could live for 1,000 years? In this episode of Groove Jams, we’re joined by fan-favorite Annie Duke to dive headfirst into the wild possibilities of a much longer life. The conversation kicks off with a controversial babysitting prank that sparked Annie’s lifelong fear of death, leading to a lively debate about how immortality could reshape society. Would 80-year-old presidents be no big deal? Would archaeology become the most boring subject ever? Join us as we unravel ethical dilemmas, debate questionable life choices, and find out if Annie can finally conquer her fear of mortality. 

Don’t wait 1,000 years to tune in—hit play now while it’s still relevant!

This week, we continue exploring jobs, careers, and callings with Jen Totsi-Kharas, co-author of Is Your Work Worth It? For a deeper dive into this topic, check out our conversation with Jen’s co-author, Christopher Michaelson, on last week’s episode!

We sit down with Jen to explore the complex nature of work and how it can be defined as a job, career, or calling, with a particular focus on the potential downsides people face when they try and pursue their “callings”. While having a strong calling can boost engagement and life satisfaction, it also has its risks, including over-commitment, burnout, and a disconnection from the practical realities of one’s career.

Discover who has stronger work satisfaction - orchestral musicians or prison guards, and explore how expectations and daily demands shape well-being across professions.  Together with Jen, we discuss how calling can change over time and the importance of self-discovery in aligning work with personal values and aspirations.  There is value in finding meaningful work, even if it’s not a perfect calling, and Jen helps us explore the need for a balanced approach that considers both passion and practicality in our career choices. 

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Intro: Dream job or prison guard?

[4:44] Speed Round with Jen Totsi-Kharas

[10:17] Happiness in “callings” vs. “jobs”

[15:27] The benefits and downsides of callings

[29:46] The difference between callings and jobs

[34:42] The role of callings in different professions

[40:44] The importance of finding meaningful work

[46:37] Grooving session: understanding the nuances of work satisfaction

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Jennifer Tosti-Kharas

Is Your Work Worth It?: How to Think About Meaningful Work

Zookeepers, Callings, and the Double-edged Sword of Deeply Meaningful Work

Indigo Girls Closer to Fine

Tori Amos Cornflake Girl (Live)

Is Your Job a Calling or a Burden?

This week, we jump into the deep and sometimes challenging question: what role does work play in a meaningful life? Christopher Michaelson, one of the co-authors of Is Your Work Worth It?  joins us to explore the philosophical and practical aspects of how we view work—as a job, a career, or a calling—and the impacts each perspective can have on our sense of purpose and fulfillment. While a calling can give us profound motivation, Christopher warns that it can also lead to burnout and even exploitation.

One of the most poignant moments in our conversation reflects on research from 9/11, which reveals that for two-thirds of the victims, work was not a defining element in their life stories. This insight reminds us of the importance of balancing work with other meaningful aspects of life. Christopher also shares insights from his personal family history and invites us to redefine success beyond professional or financial achievements.

Together, we consider how our “90-year-old self” might view the decisions we make about work and purpose today, and how these choices impact our journey toward a balanced life. Join us as we dig into the importance of examining our relationship to work to ensure it truly aligns with our broader life goals and values.

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Intro

[4:11] Speed round

[12:32] Exploring the nature of work

[22:40] Is having “a calling” a bad thing?

[36:24] Redefining success

[48:30] Desert island music

[53:48] Grooving Session: Work-life balance and living in the moment

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Is Your Work Worth It?: How to Think About Meaningful Work

Christopher Michaelson

9/11 Portraits of Grief Project

Phillip Glass “Prophecies” 

Allison Russell “Nightflyer” 

Boy Genius “Not Strong Enough

Has Behavioral Grooves turned into a political podcast?

Not really (ok, maybe kinda it has - but for just a few weeks, we promise ). With the 2024 election days away, however, it’s felt nearly unavoidable for many people, including us. Attending the Norms and Behavior Change Conference (NoBeC), titled, Democracy Under Threat, sparked some essential thoughts and insights that we feel compelled to share.

Democracy relies on fragile social norms that are under serious threat right now. From startling statistics about the rise of autocracies worldwide to the surge in misinformation, it’s clear that a renewed commitment to democratic norms is needed now more than ever. So, here’s a crucial question for all of us to consider: Is party loyalty more important than the stability of our democracy?

Join us to rethink democracy—not just as a system but as a collective responsibility – bound together by shared beliefs. Your voice matters, your vote is essential, and together, we can help fortify democracy. If you don’t have a plan for where and when you’re going to vote, put one together. Get a friend to vote with you. You may feel disenfranchised or fatigued or angry or sad…just make sure you vote. And put a happy spin on your voting experience: celebrate the fact that we can vote by baking an election cake (or election pie or even election cookies) to bring to the polls! Democracy is fragile, please treat it with respect.

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Special Thanks to: Cristina Bicchieri, Kaushik Basu, Diana Mutz, Gretchen Helmke, Horacio Larreguy, Christoph Abels, Ryan Enos, Robert Talisse, Giulia Maimone, Erik Groenendyk, Nikos Nikiforkis, Cesar Nuñez, Karine Nyborg, Jan Voelkel and Ryan Enos for their participation in NoBeC and their fascinating research!

[0:08] Understanding Democracy and Social Norms

[3:07] The Fragility of Democracy

[9:34] Polarization and Media Influence

[17:43] The Role of Political Elites

[19:55] Gratitude and Closing Thoughts

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Find Your Polling Place

Polarization Series

Center for Social Norms and Behavioral Dynamics

Cristina Bicchieri

Kaushik Basu

Diana Mutz

Gretchen Helmke

Horacio Larreguy

Christoph Abels

Ryan Enos

Robert Talisse

Giulia Maimone

Erik Groenendyk

Nikos Nikiforkis

Cesar Nuñez

Karine Nyborg

Jan Voelkel

A special message from Kurt and Tim, all the way from Philadelphia:

November 5th is fast approaching, and now, more than ever, participating in democracy matters. Casting your vote isn’t just a civic duty—it’s a way to find your groove in American democracy. Tune in to this short episode for practical advice and inspiration to make your vote count, and join in celebrating the great American experiment!

What if you could give the U.S. Constitution a makeover?

Ahead of the 2024 U.S. election, AJ Jacobs joins Kurt and Tim to dive into the lighter side of politics, taking a playful look at what really needs fixing in America’s founding documents (hint: it starts with grammar).

While the spelling of Pennsylvania is no longer up for debate, the trio tackles plenty of other things that could — and maybe should — be changed for the better. What does the 2nd Amendment really mean? Should cabinet members have veto power? Are we missing out on some much-needed retirement parties for Supreme Court justices? Tune in to Groove Jams for a lively conversation and share your thoughts!

After all, it’s a free country!

Want to watch along? Check out the video version on YouTube

Ahead of the 2024 US Election, Kurt and Tim sit down with bestselling author and serial experimenter AJ Jacobs to discuss his latest project, The Year of Living Constitutionally. AJ spent a year living life according to the principles of the U.S. Constitution, adopting 18th-century customs along the way. From wearing tricorn hats and writing with quill pens to exploring the deeper philosophical underpinnings of democracy, AJ brings history to life while reflecting on the balance between rights and responsibilities, a concept that feels more urgent than ever today.

AJ also shares his mission to revive one of America’s sweetest (and largely forgotten) traditions—Election Cakes! In the 1700s, Election Day was a festival of civic pride, complete with parades, music, and community-baked cakes shared at the polls. In true AJ fashion, he’s on a quest to bring this tradition back, reminding us that democracy can be both a serious and joyful act. 

Throughout the episode, AJ, Kurt, and Tim dive into the importance of ‘epistemic humility’ - aka, the acknowledgment that we don’t have all the answers and must remain open to learning. From Benjamin Franklin’s introspection to modern-day challenges of misinformation, AJ challenges listeners to approach life and democracy with curiosity, gratitude, and a willingness to improve both ourselves and our society. So grab a slice of election cake (or pie!) and join us for this thought-provoking, timely conversation on what it means to live constitutionally.

Need help finding a voting location near you? Check here!

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Election day traditions

[4:25] Speed round with AJ Jacobs

[9:44] Living Colonially: What I learned

[18:56] Epistemic humility and political perspectives

[23:52] Constitutional originalism

[36:29] How do we frame the constitution?

[40:40] Election cakes and celebrating democracy

[48:52] Embracing experimentation in everyday life

[52:56] Grooving session: open-mindedness, civic duty, and cake recipes

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Join our Facebook Group!

AJ’s Substack

The Year of Living Constitutionally

More about AJ

The History of Election Cakes

The US Constitution

Royal American Medley - Songs of the Revolutionary War

Yankee Doodle

Why do we avoid the very thing that could bring us more joy—connecting with others?

In this episode, behavioral scientist and human interaction expert Nick Epley returns to the podcast to help Kurt and Tim explore the paradox of social connection. Despite living in a time often described as a loneliness epidemic, many of us still choose to limit our social interactions and shy away from new experiences. While we’re hardwired to thrive on positive connections, anxiety and inaccurate assumptions often hold us back. Nick sheds light on why we consistently underestimate how enjoyable social interactions will be—and how this leads to missed opportunities for meaningful connection.

Drawing from his research at Chicago’s Mindworks facility, where people from all walks of life participate in behavioral experiments, Nick shares fascinating insights into our social nature. His team’s real-world studies have uncovered how our expectations and assumptions can prevent us from fully engaging in new social experiences.

Tune in to learn how our beliefs can shape our social lives and how curiosity and openness can transform any interaction into something rewarding. Nick offers practical advice on how behavioral science can help us lead more connected, fulfilling lives. And hey, next time you’re getting your morning coffee, say hi to the barista—you never know where that small interaction might lead!

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Intro: Connecting with strangers

[9:50] Nick Epley and Mindworks research facility

[23:16] Experiments at Mindworks

[30:55] Insights from social interaction experiments

[39:34] The role of expectations in social interactions

[47:01] How to create positive interactions

[51:18] Grooving session: Curiosity, compassion, and engaging with strangers

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Mindworks

About Nick Epley

Mistakenly Seeking Solitude

Join our Facebook Group!

 Ever wondered what it would be like to snag a backstage pass to history’s biggest moments? In Groove Jams' maiden voyage, Kurt, Tim, and special guest Christian Hunt take on the ultimate bucket list item: time travel. Prepare for a wild ride that’s part history lesson, part “what could possibly go wrong?”

Tune in for a rollercoaster of laughs, deep thoughts, and ethical dilemmas as we explore the slippery slope of time-hopping. What are the risks and rewards? Could curiosity lead to chaos? And most importantly, could we save the Beatles from Yoko Ono?

Co-hosts, meet co-creation! This week, Kurt and Tim are joined by special guests Aransas Savas and Dave Norton, hosts of the Experience Strategy Podcast. Together, they take on one of the biggest challenges companies face: truly understanding what their customers want and need.

Data can be valuable, but how useful is it if you don’t fully grasp the “what” or “why” behind those numbers? Aransas and Dave explain why co-creating with customers is a more effective approach than relying solely on data or assumptions. They dive into how blending behavioral science with experience strategy can create lasting value for both customers and companies, while also breaking through common barriers like internal fears, egos, and dreaded groupthink (shudder).

Listen in to discover how experience strategy complements behavior change and why clinging to past successes can lead to blind spots in a rapidly evolving market.

Ready to take your customer experience strategy to the next level? Tune in and join the conversation—because the future of your business depends on truly understanding your customers. And share your thoughts with Kurt and Tim in our new Facebook Group!

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Book a time to talk to Tim about Behavioral Grooves here

[0:00] Introduction: Customer needs and preferences

[3:14] Housekeeping: BG Updates!

[5:29] Speed Round

[9:35] Customer trends and the importance of outside perspectives

[20:51] Challenges in engaging customers and the role of behavior change

[26:42] Common pitfalls to avoid

[30:30] Grooving session: customer engagement, listening, and considering needs

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Links 

The Experience Strategy Podcast

Subscribe to our YouTube for Groove Jams!

Join our Groove Community!

And now, the moment we’ve all been waiting for (even if you didn’t know you were waiting)...

Introducing Groove Jams! Tim and Kurt are launching an exciting new video-first mini-series where they dive into wild hypothetical scenarios and tackle thought-provoking questions about human behavior—and so much more. With help from some fan-favorite guests, each episode kicks off with an intriguing question that pushes the limits of imagination and reveals fresh perspectives on the world. Get ready for laughs, “aha” moments, and maybe even a few WTFs, every few weeks starting this October!

Subscribe on YouTube to be the First to See Groove Jams!

Now…back to work!

We’re back to the weekly grind this week on Behavioral Grooves and exploring a topic Kurt and Tim know like the back of their hands - Behavioral Science in the workplace.  Joined by Scott Young, a seasoned behavioral science practitioner with years of experience in the private sector, they dive into how we can improve work environments by tweaking work policies rather than replacing them entirely. 

Scott shares insights from his work and a recent paper he authored for the Behavioral Science Policy Association about the real-world challenges behavioral science practitioners face when working with large corporations.  From defining behavior change to navigating organization resistance, the trio explore the challenges of their work and offer practical solutions to overcome these barriers.

Throughout the conversation, Scott walks listeners through a multi-step process for workplace success, focusing on defining goals, understanding content, ideating interventions, and rigorously testing solutions.  Tune in for a roadmap for business leaders on how to leverage these concepts effectively by aligning them with existing challenges and integrating them into everyday operations.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Intro and Behavioral Grooves announcements!

[7:39] Speed round with Scott Young

[11:41] Behavioral science in the real world

[15:10] Potential of behavioral science in business

[21:41] Challenges to applying behavioral science in the real world

[31:02] How to frame behavioral science to business leaders

[36:50] Solutions and looking to the future

[41:59] Desert Island music

[46:18] Grooving Session: Integrating behavioral science into organizations

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Bridging the Divide - Scott's Paper

BeScy.org

BASF commercial

BSPA

Join our Facebook Group!

Join the Patreon!

Dire Straits - Sultans of Swing

Counting Crows - Hanginaround

So…is there hope? Kurt and Tim think so!

In this wrap-up of our polarization series, Kurt and Tim reflect on how much the political landscape has changed since they started recording last December. With the presidential campaign in full swing and November’s election approaching, it’s more important than ever to critically evaluate the news and information we consume.

In this quick, engaging episode, they revisit the most impactful ideas from their conversations with researchers. From “nut-picking”—focusing on extreme examples of the opposing side—to the challenge of living in a fragmented reality, Kurt and Tim discuss how we can push back against the media’s efforts to keep us divided. Instead, they urge us to focus on bridging divides and coming together for the sake of democracy.

Polarization is powerful, but it’s not unbreakable. So, stay informed, talk to each other, and most importantly—register to vote!

Register to Vote!

Ep. 434 – What’s Really Driving Political Polarization? The Science Explained

Ep. 435 - Are We Acting Differently Because of Politics? Here’s What the Research Shows

Ep. 436 - A Less Polarized Future: Real Solutions to Heal Our Divided World

In the final episode of the polarization series, Kurt and Tim delve into "affective polarization," where emotional distrust, rather than ideological differences, has deepened the divide between political parties. Drawing on insights from the recent MIT conference, they explore how these negative feelings have escalated over time. Stanford postdoc Jan Voelkl shares eye-opening research showing a marked decline in positive feelings across party lines over the past few decades.

But there's hope on the horizon! Kurt and Tim explore proven interventions aimed at reducing polarization by fostering cooperation and shared identities. Through game-based approaches and collaborative strategies, they demonstrate that cross-party cooperation is not only possible but achievable. Featured researcher Josh Green explains how his game-based method helps bridge the partisan divide, offering an optimistic outlook for improving political discourse.

The duo also speaks with Kati Kish Bar-On, a postdoc at MIT, who provides a philosophical perspective on polarization and how we engage with one another, while Yph Lelkes offers historical context and a dose of optimism for the future based on the 2022 election results.

The series concludes with a compassionate, forward-thinking conversation, offering practical strategies to critically assess polarized messaging and steps toward healing the growing political divide.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Introduction: A final look at polarization 

[4:07] Hope for American democracy - Jan Voelkl

[12:23] Game-based interventions - Josh Greene

[20:28] Polarization: a philosophical perspective - Kati Kish Bar-On

[28:28] History and hope: Yph Lelkes

[31:54] Grooving session - America, democracy, and critical thinking

[41:30] BONUS TRACK: Young scientists look at polarization - Miles and Isaac Rand

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Kati Kish Bar-on

Jan Voelkl

Josh Greene

Yph Lelkes 

Register to Vote Here!

Why do we so easily form ‘us vs. them’ mentalities, and how does it impact our society?

In the second part of this series, Kurt and Tim dive into the psychological roots of polarization, starting with the famous Robbers Cave Experiment. They explore how easily group identities and loyalties form, even among strangers, and how this translates into in-group loyalty and out-group hostility.

The discussion expands to cover the role geography plays in shaping political views, as explained by researchers like Ryan Enos from Harvard. There’s also a compelling conversation with Ryan about whether polarization is truly worsening or if we’re just more aware of it due to better data.
 
Kurt and Tim then turn to economists who have studied how our political identities drive us to make decisions that sometimes go against our own interests. Kwabena Donkor from Stanford and Andrea Robbett from Middlebury College tee up studies to disentangle our preferences from our beliefs and they use clever, money-based studies to do so.

Eugen Dimant, from the University of Pennsylvania, examines the societal impact of polarization, from trust and cooperation to the functioning of democratic institutions. The conversation underscores the complexity of polarization and the diverse approaches needed to fully understand and address its consequences. Tune in for deeper insights into the forces shaping our divided world.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Robbers Cave Experiment

[2:42] MIT’s PolarizationSeries

[3:48] Geography and Polarization: Ryan Enos

[14:46] Beliefs and Preferences: Kwabena Donkor

[23:07] The Comorbidities of Polarization: Eugen Dimant

[34:44] Affective Polarization: Andrea Robett

[39:15] Grooving Session: Understanding the gap between what we say and what we do

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Eugen Dimant

Kwabena Donkor

Ryan Enos

Andrea Robbett

Register to Vote Here!

Join our Facebook Group!

Follow us on Instagram: @behavioralgrooves

Are we more divided than ever? How can people see past their differences and come together for the greater good?

In this three-part series, Kurt and Tim explore the psychology behind the rise of political polarization in the United States. Tracing its roots back to the late 60s and 70s, they examine how the advent of cable news has played a pivotal role in shaping today’s divisive landscape.

With insights from researchers around the globe, this episode highlights key findings from interviews conducted at MIT’s Polarization and Politicization conference. Experts from around the world discuss the critical role of perception and how digital platforms can either foster constructive dialogue or deepen the divide between opposing sides.

Polarization is complex—it’s a persistent and growing trend we can no longer ignore. If you’re curious about understanding not only the nature of polarization but also how to combat it, this episode offers a hopeful perspective on promoting cooperation and a shared sense of reality. 

Tune in next week for Parts 2 and 3 of this thought-provoking series!

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] History of Polarization

[2:25] MIT’s Polarization Conference

[6:00] Understanding Polarization: Sandy Pentland

[15:39] Misinformation: David Rand

[27:45] Meta-perceptions and propaganda: Mina Cikara

[36:10] Why do we lack a shared reality? Yph Lelkes

[40:32] The danger of political elites: Josh Greene

[46:28] Grooving Session: How do we create respectful dialogues?

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Sandy Pentland’s Media Lab

David Rand - Debunk Bot

Mina Cikara - The Gravity of Groups

Yph Lelkes - Polarization Research Lab

Josh Greene - Josh and the Cooperation Game

Register to Vote HERE!

Join our Facebook Group!

Follow us on Instagram: @behavioralgrooves

Do you struggle with maintaining healthy eating habits?

Are you, like Kurt, stashing Oreos in the basement to avoid temptation? Believe it or not, making small changes to your environment can be more effective for managing your health than relying on willpower alone.

This week, Kurt and Tim are joined by nutrition expert Monica Reinagel—an opera singer turned nutritionist and podcaster. Monica shares her unique insights on weight management and what really matters when starting your personal health journey.

Context is everything when it comes to health decisions. In this episode, they dive into how simple tweaks to your environment, both public and private, can have a big impact on your overall well-being. Tune in for practical tips, expert advice, and the encouragement you need to start making healthier choices that work for you.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Book a time to talk to Tim about Behavioral Grooves here.

[0:00] Oreo habits and environmental adjustments

[9:22] Introduction and speed round

[13:50] Are New Year’s Resolutions bad?

[20:08] Eating, emotions, and environment

[24:32] From opera singer to nutritionist - finding your passions

[31:35] How we can look at nutrition through behavioral science

[38:30] Tracking nutrition with the Nutrition GPA App

[45:00] Desert island music

[51:32] Grooving Session: influencing behavior by changing your environment

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Nutrition GPA app

Monica on Instagram

Change Academy Podcast

Behavioral Grooves Facebook Group!

Bach - Spirits of Meditation - Suite #5 Aria

Mozart - Symphony No. 40 in G minor

Get ready for a moo-ving conversation! This week, Kurt and Tim sit down with Gregory Berns, a psychology professor at Emory University, to explore the secret world of cows. Gregory shares his journey from academic to accidental farmer during the COVID-19 pandemic and how a group of miniature cows changed his life.

There’s moo-re to cows than meets the eye, and Gregory reveals how his farming adventure turned into a real-life exploration of cow psychology, unveiling behaviors that challenge common assumptions. In today’s world, there’s often a disconnect between urban dwellers and livestock, and the trio discusses how we can reconnect with farm life and our food sources to become more conscious consumers.

But that’s not all—tune in to hear how Gregory’s innovative “bud box” techniques show how understanding cow psychology can lead to stress-free handling and trust-building on the farm and beyond. Whether you’re a city slicker or a country dweller, this episode will expand your perspective and leave you with a newfound appreciation for the complex inner lives of the animals around us.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Book a time to talk to Tim about Behavioral Grooves here

[0:00] A different type of episode!

[2:44] Intro and speed round

[4:49] How does a behavioral scientist start raising cows?

[12:21] Understanding cow personalities

[18:38] Psychology of animal relationships

[27:59] Cow psychology and handling techniques

[36:51] Music and cows

[42:25] Grooving session - understanding our relationship with animals

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Gregory Berns

Cowpuppy: An Unexpected Friendship and a Scientist's Journey Into the Secret World of Cows

Psychology Today: Cows

Lynyrd Skynyrd - Sweet Home Alabama

The Band - Don’t Do It

The Beach Boys - Kokomo

Do women in the workplace have to choose between being likable and assertive?

This week, Alison Fragale, author of The Likable Badass joins Kurt and Tim to look at the challenges women face in the workplace and how they can overcome. With her powerful concept of the “likable badass”, Alison teaches listeners the art of blending warmth with assertiveness to achieve success without sacrificing authenticity. 

Alison unpacks and explores the historical disadvantages women have faced due to gender and stereotypical characteristics that often hinder success. She highlights how women can overcome these traditional obstacles by balancing confidence and kindness, offering practical strategies like positive self-talk, and building an “army of promoters” to elevate their status. Throughout their discussion, Alison emphasizes how small, incremental improvements and effective communication can help women build a strong reputation.

In their grooving session, Kurt and Tim dive deeper into the concept of the likable badass, providing listeners with tangible insights on how small, consistent efforts can significantly impact workplace success and beyond. By focusing on building status rather than seeking power, listeners of all genders can gain valuable insights into self-promotion and confidence in the workplace.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Empowering women in the workplace

[4:20] Introduction and speed round

[8:21] What is a “likable badass”?

[12:20] Challenges faced by women in the workplace

[16:12] How communication helps build status

[27:14] Why we need to self-promote

[30:12] Dangers of self-deprecation

[39:32] Practical tips for becoming a likable badass

[46:12] Desert Island music

[51:20] Grooving Session: the importance of small, incremental improvements and promoting your own success

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Likable Badass - How Women Get the Success They Deserve

Join the Behavioral Grooves Newsletter!

Alison Fragale

Linda Babcock - The No Club

Zach Brown - I Remember

Bon Jovi - It’s My Life

Are generational labels dead weight?

This week—after many technical difficulties and a nearly-forgotten anniversary—Kurt talks with organizational culture expert Jessica Kriegel about generational divides and why they are ultimately pointless and unproductive for both personal and professional growth. Jessica introduces her “culture equation” framework, revealing three critical elements that drive revenue growth and how missing these elements can lead to stagnation.

A key focus of the conversation is the damaging impact of generational stereotypes in the workplace and how ageism, in any form, prevents us from recognizing people’s unique talents. Through compelling examples, Jessica explains how these stereotypes dangerously influence workplace practices—and what we can do to avoid them.

Tim is back from anniversary-dinner bliss for this week’s grooving session, where he and Kurt reflect on the key themes from Kurt’s conversation with Jessica. The duo offers insights on the power of thoughtful communication and how being intentional with our words can shape organizational culture.

Whether you’re a Boomer, Gen Z’er, or anything in between (sorry Gen X and Milennials), this episode has all you need to challenge stereotypes and start bridging those generational gaps.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Generational stereotypes and corporate culture

[6:20] Speed round with Jessica Kriegel

[9:10] Generational labels: a perspective

[23:25] The “Culture Equation” and it’s impact on success

[28:41] The importance of leadership for shaping culture

[36:52] How to align purpose, strategy, and culture

[42:25] Grooving Session: Bridging generational divides with leadership

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Unfairly Labeled: How Your Workplace Can Benefit From Ditching Generational Stereotypes

How to get people to give a sh*t | Jessica Kriegel | TEDxStGeorgeStudio

Is Generational Prejudice Seeping into Your Workplace?

Subscribe to our Newsletter!

Atmosphere - “Sunshine"

The Beatles - "Eight Days a Week"

This week, we dive into a thought-provoking conversation with Bob McKinnon, host of the Attribution podcast and author of America's Dreaming. Bob unpacks the complex factors that determine success and failure, drawing from his own experiences and broader societal influences. He challenges the "fundamental attribution error," where we often credit personal effort over external factors, and how this bias can distort our perceptions of ourselves and others. Through powerful stories, Bob discusses how systemic barriers and limiting beliefs shape life outcomes, emphasizing the need to recognize the roles of luck, privilege, and social connections in our narratives.

Bob, Kurt and Tim explore the ethics of marketing, the overlooked influence of luck in success, and how reframing our stories can foster empathy. With insights into everything from historical injustices to the power of music and storytelling, Bob offers listeners a fresh perspective on the importance of compassionate curiosity in bridging social divides by creating more inclusive conversations. Tune in to discover how understanding attribution can change the way we see the world—and ourselves.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Intro

[6:03] Speed round

[9:18] Factors contributing to success/failure

[13:53] Attribution and how it affects perceptions and behaviors

[19:21] Attribution error and its impact on behavior and success

[29:30] Success, privilege, and race in America

[35:00] Land grants, race, and attribution

[46:35] Empathy, storytelling, and judging less to improve relationships

[54:00] Music, identity, and belonging

[1:00:29] Grooving session: Attribution and luck in success

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

The Monopoly Experiment

The Random Factor by Mark Rank

America’s Surprising Views on Inequality

American Dream Score - Bob’s Quiz

America’s Dreaming - Bob McKinnon

Neil Diamond - I am…I said

Tracy Chapman - Fast Car

Luke Combs - Fast Car

Double the Episodes, Double the Insights! This week, Kurt and Tim are back at it, diving deeper into the world of habits, rituals, and routines. In this special double episode, they take us on a journey through the fascinating neuroscience of habit formation, unpacking how the basal ganglia in our brains can shape our behaviors—for better or worse (cue ominous music…).

The discussion moves beyond the basics, examining how our habitual actions can both enhance and sometimes limit our ability to fully experience life’s spontaneous pleasures. Kurt and Tim explore the delicate balance between the comfort of routine and the thrill of novelty, offering fresh perspectives on how to be more intentional about the habits we cultivate.

But it’s not all theory—this is Behavioral Grooves, after all! The hosts dish out practical strategies for breaking bad habits, like adding friction to disrupt automatic behaviors and swapping out old routines for new, more desirable ones. They also remind us that the road to healthy habits is paved with patience, self-compassion, and a steady focus on personal growth.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] How we form good and bad habits

[5:09] Do habits and routines impact life's novelty?

[11:04] Breaking bad habits and creating new ones

[16:58] Habits, routines, and rituals for personal growth

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Habits: Why We do What We Do

James Clear: Habit Tracker

Brain/Shift Journal

Habits vs Routines

Ever wonder why some habits stick effortlessly while others feel impossible to maintain?

In this episode, Kurt and Tim explore the powerful forces of habits, routines, and rituals that shape our daily lives. They dig into what habits are, how they form, and why they're so hard to change. From understanding the role of cues and rewards to distinguishing between habits and routines, Kurt and Tim break down the science and strategies behind these everyday behaviors. They also discuss the importance of starting small, aligning habits with your values, and the often overlooked difference between habits and rituals.

Whether you're looking to kick an old habit or start a new one, this episode offers practical advice and thought-provoking insights. And stay tuned for part two, where they’ll tackle the tricky topic of ending unwanted habits!

[0:00] Welcome to a solo-sode with Kurt and Tim!

[4:17] Habits and routines: The nuance

[10:45] What differentiates a habit from a routine?

[17:19] Habits, routines, and rituals 

[24:36] How to create motivation and achieve goals

[31:32] Creating new habits

[35:07] The key to consistency, grace, and personal growth

Charles Duhigg - The Power of Habit

Wendy Wood - Good Habits, Bad Habits

Brain/Shift Journal: Habits and Goals

“Here is a small fact: You are going to die.” – Markus Zusak, The Book Thief

This week, Kurt and Tim confront death. Well - they confront death and Jodi Wellman, author of “You Only Die Once” in a lively discussion on how we can use mortality as a motivator for living life to the fullest. Wellman bring an irreverent humor to the conversation, as well as inspiring insights on how we can prioritize joy and find meaning in our daily lives. 

The trio dives into the heart of Wellman’s philosophy and explores the idea that life is about more than ticking off a to-do lists or sticking to routings. With a mix of anecdotes and insights, they explore how we can shake things up and be more intentional with our time. After all, we only have so many Mondays left to live!

In their grooving session, Kurt opens up about how a brush with death can remind us of life’s preciousness. As they wrap up, they emphasize how the power of gratitude and the importance of connecting with loved ones can help us do more than just breathe - but actually live.  Whether it’s finding joy in the everyday or reaching out to someone you’ve lost touch with, the episode is a reminder that living fully means being present, purposeful and - at times - a little irreverent.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] How often do you think about death?

[4:33] Introduction and speed round

[10:11] The importance of intentional living

[15:13] Identifying goals and prioritizing personal desires

[22:58] Breaking free from autopilot

[28:17] Near-death experiences

[38:00] Vitality, meaning, and well-being

[43:53] Finding meaning and purpose through self-reflections

[56:20] Confronting death and prioritizing life

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Why Some People Love Sad Music

You Only Die Once: How to Make It to the End with No Regrets

Four Thousand Mondays

Jason Isbell “If We Were Vampires”

Dave Matthews Band “Satellite”

The Cure “Friday I’m in Love”

How can we turn disagreements into opportunities for growth and connection?

In this episode, Kurt and Tim dive into the science of meaningful conversations with David Robson, author of The Laws of Connection. Together, they explore how to deepen our understanding and build stronger connections with the people around us. Disagreements don’t have to signal the end of a conversation. Instead, with compassionate curiosity and a willingness to listen, we can turn them into constructive dialogues that bridge divides.

While facts alone may not sway emotions, personal stories can be far more persuasive than statistics. By integrating personal connections into our interactions, we can enhance both personal and professional relationships. Approaching conversations with honesty, precision, and a focus on growth not only improves our communication but also enriches our connections, potentially transforming every aspect of our lives.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[1:10] Welcome back, David!

[3:32] Intro and speed round

[8:10] Misconceptions about connecting with strangers

[15:04] The importance of social connections

[23:48] The art of successful conversation

[29:14] Creating a shared reality

[32:49] Effective communication strategies for disagreements

[36:47] Using personal experience to persuade others

[40:22] Effective feedback delivery

[52:00] Grooving session: Building connections, overcoming fear, and improving relationships

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Kwame Christian’s “Compassionate Curiosity” approach

Trotsky’s principle on empathy and statistics

The Laws of Connection

David Robson

Judy Collins - Spellbound  

Taylor Swift - Fortnight

West Side Story - America 

Mythbusters or Behavioral Grooves? This week, we step back in time with Kurt and Tim (2023) to tackle the common belief that willpower alone is enough to achieve your goals. They delve into the critical roles that environment and routines play in goal attainment. Through engaging real-life examples, they demonstrate how small adjustments in your physical and social surroundings can simplify desired behaviors and reduce the need for sheer willpower.

Routines are essential for success, providing the structure needed to support your goals. Tim and Kurt offer practical strategies for minimizing friction and sustaining motivation. By establishing effective routines, you can make goal-oriented behaviors more automatic and less reliant on willpower.

In this republished episode, listeners get to join Kurt and Tim as they groove on the topic, offering actionable advice and insights on creating an environment and routine that support your goals. Tune in to learn how to set yourself up for success with these expert tips.

[1:25] Willpower is a muscle

[4:12] Making your environment work for you

[7:39] Clutter is distracting

[11:36] Routines and habits

[16:06] Routines that help us achieve our goals

Brain/Shift Journal

Mazuch & Rona (2005), “Creating healing environments: humanistic architecture and therapeutic design”

McMains & Kastner (2011), “Interactions of top-down and bottom-up mechanisms in human visual cortex”

Wendy Wood, “Good Habits, Bad Habits: The Science of Making Positive Changes That Stick”

Katy Milkman, “How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be”

Is AI about to take over the world, or is it simply…misunderstood?

Tim takes on a solo-sode with guest Ben Manning, a PhD candidate at MIT who is currently writing a thesis on the fascinating world of artificial intelligence (AI) and machine learning.  They explore the intricacies of AI, defining key terms, and discussing the hierarchy within AI, machine learning, and large language models. From spell check to ChatGPT, the world of AI is diverse and ever-expanding, and Ben explains the potential of AI to assist fields like behavioral science and beyond. 

From healthcare to finance, AI has the potential to benefit various fields, but it’s not without it’s limitations. There’s a certain way we can all embrace this technology and understand where and how is the best place to use it.

Kurt jumps back into the game in this week’s grooving session, where he and Tim reflect on the conversation, highlighting key takeaways and discussing their own perspectives on AI. They emphasize the importance of embracing AI for its potential, and not being scared of the “unknown” it presents.

All hail our robot overlords!

Kidding, but tune in this week for a great conversation on a modern invention, and how it applies to our everyday lives. 

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Quick announcements for Behavioral Grooves!

[6:35] Intro and speed round

[10:27] AI, psychology, and behavioral science

[16:46] Using machine learning in psychology experiments

[21:34] Using AI to study behavior: Benefits and limitations

[28:33] AI in machine learning and desert island music

[30:57] Grooving session: The future of AI - we're nervous but excited

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Ben Manning

Large Language Models as Simulated Economic Agents: What we can learn from Homo Silicus

Ben’s Substack

Behavioral Grooves - Sign up for our newsletter!

Sammy Rae & The Friends “We Made It”

The Brook & The Bluff “Halfway Up”

Budget hotel or 5-star experience? Pack a lunch or grab it to-go? Save your money or spend it? Are you a tightwad or a spendthrift? 

Scott Rick, author of "Tightwads and Spendthrifts," joins Kurt and Tim on this week’s episode to discuss all things related to personal finance and our relationship with money. Scott explains the distinctions between tightwads and spendthrifts, detailing how these traits influence your financial habits and impact your life and relationships. Through his expertise, Scott offers listeners a unique window into understanding their spending habits and finding the right balance between saving and spending.

The episode also addresses the challenges couples face when they have different financial personalities. Scott and Kurt suggest strategies for maintaining harmony, highlighting the significance of financial compatibility and its effect on overall happiness in a relationship. If you thought gift-giving was just a love language, think again! Scott emphasizes the importance of thoughtful gift-giving and understanding the recipient's preferences, shedding light on how spendthrifts and tightwads approach gifts differently and the significance of effort and sacrifice in making gifts meaningful.

Tune in for this insightful conversation with Scott Rick, packed with valuable insights to help you navigate your financial journey. Whether you’re a spendthrift, tightwad, or somewhere in between, this episode offers a wealth (pun intended) of knowledge to enhance your understanding of personal finance and relationships.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[4:46] Introduction and speed round

[7:00] Money Management and spending habits

[13:00] Tightwads, spendthrifts, and finding balance

[17:47] How budgeting helps both groups

[22:08] Avoiding financial friction in marriage

[33:43] The financial importance of gift-giving

[37:32] Financial transparency and accountability in relationships

[44:19] Desert Island music

[46:22] Grooving Session - relationships, finance, and finding balance

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Tightwads and Spendthrifts: Navigating the Money Minefield in Real Relationships

Tightwads vs Spendthrifts Quiz

Scott Rick

Is Joint Banking the Key to a Happy Marriage?

Pearl Jam “Even Flow”

Mitski “Star”

Take a deep breath. Step outside. Smell the coffee. Tune in to Behavioral Grooves.

This week, Kurt and Tim sit down with Emma Seppälä, author of "Sovereign," to discuss the importance of understanding and embracing our emotions, practicing self-compassion, and relying on intuition in our decision-making process. In this empowering conversation, Emma emphasizes the transformative power of self-compassion and self-love in our daily lives.

Do you have trouble accepting praise from others? Is your tendency toward self-criticism too automatic? Sometimes, we need to step outside ourselves and reconnect with the world around us to practice gratitude, change our perspective, and erase negative self-talk to improve our mental well-being.

If you’re seeking more agency in life or starting a journey of personal growth, tune in to learn about the impact of self-compassion on relationships and happiness and the importance of intuition in decision-making, creativity, and problem-solving. Join us as we explore these themes and more, offering actionable steps to reclaim your freedom, energy, and power in today’s hectic world.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[3:30] Thanks to our listeners!

[6:37] Intro and speed round

[11:05] Self-awareness and personal growth

[19:02] Why does society focus on criticism more than praise?

[26:29] Intuition and its role in decision-making

[35:07] Meditation and mindfulness for emotional intelligence

[40:00] Gratitude and mental health

[47:02] Desert Island music

[49:05] Grooving Session: Positivity, praise, and work-life balance

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Sarah Glenister, Australasian Change Days

About Emma

Sovereign: Reclaim Your Freedom, Energy, and Power in a Time of Distraction, Uncertainty, and Chaos

Mahamrityunjaya Mantra, Ancient Chant for Healing & Peace

Indian Flute Music, Compilation

This week on Behavioral Grooves, things get personal – or at least professionally personal – as Kurt and Tim are joined by Becky Frayer, founder and CEO of Behavioral Fusion. Becky shares valuable tips and strategies for overcoming challenges in large organizations and explores the practical applications of behavioral science in the business world.

Throughout their discussion, Kurt, Tim, and Becky emphasize the importance of applying behavioral science practices in the workplace. They explain how storytelling and reassurance can be powerful tools for navigating corporate environments. Through personal anecdotes and real-world examples, the trio reveals how to overcome common work obstacles and integrate healthy behavioral science practices into your company’s everyday routine.

Whether you're a skeptic or an embracer of behavioral science, this episode offers valuable insights and practical advice on using behavioral science principles to drive business growth and improve decision-making. Tune in to hear about the fascinating journey of applying behavioral science in corporate America and gain new perspectives on consumer behavior and organizational dynamics.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[2:42] Intro and speed round

[6:42] Consumer behavior and decision-making in the pharmaceutical industry

[13:30] Using behavioral science to understand consumer behavior

[17:56] Applying behavioral science in business

[27:51] Challenges and insights: applying behavioral science at work

[33:22] The importance of understanding human behavior

[37:54] Desert island music

[40:59] Grooving Session: Using behavioral science insights to drive business success

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Dunning-Kruger Effect

Behavioral Fusion

Building Behavioral Science Capabilities in Your Company

Michael Jackson, “Thriller”

Sister Hazel, “Change Your Mind”

How often do you question the 'facts' you encounter in everyday life?

This week, Alex Edmans, author of May Contain Lies, joins Kurt and Tim to question the world around us. They explore the significance of critical thinking and cognitive diversity, highlighting the value of diverse perspectives and evidence-based reasoning. They discuss the differences between facts and statements, the dangers of misleading inferences from evidence, and the impact of perception on communication.

Creating an environment where individuals can express their viewpoints freely is crucial. This includes fostering a culture where a devil’s advocate can provide critical feedback and considering alternative explanations to avoid confirmation bias in our everyday lives.

For a bit of fun (and for Tim too!), Alex explains his research on how music preferences can predict stock market trends and the challenge of separating emotional effects from fundamental factors. During their Grooving Session, Kurt and Tim encourage listeners to apply a scientific mindset when evaluating information and to promote cognitive diversity within their workspaces. Tune in to enhance your critical thinking skills, appreciate the nuances in decision-making, and learn how to foster a culture of scientific inquiry in your workplace and beyond.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[5:07] Intro and speed round

[9:30] The importance of critical thinking and avoiding confirmation bias

[16:37] Misinformation and how it’s presented

[27:56] How to evaluate scientific claims by checking sources

[33:08] The importance of cognitive diversity

[42:07] Using music to predict stock market trends

[49:26] Grooving Session: Overcoming biases to make informed decisions

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Links

Alex Edmans ‘May Contain Lies: How Stories, Statistics, and Studies Exploit Our Biases - And What We Can Do About It’

Wason Selection Task

Sports Sentiment and Stock Returns

How Cognitive Biases Influence the Way You Think and Act

Earth, Wind, and Fire “September”

Fleetwood Mac “The Chain”

How do we make sense in a world that often seems nonsensical? In this week’s episode, Kurt and Tim team up with Saul Perlmutter and Rob MacCoun, co-authors of Third Millennium Thinking, to try and answer these unanswerable questions for listeners. Together, they bring the scientific method from theory to practice as they explore key aspects of scientific inquiry, probabilistic thinking, and the significance of embracing uncertainty in problem-solving. 

Saul and Rob help bring scientific practice into reality and cover various topics from the role of experimentation in identifying cause-and-effect relationships, the importance of assigning probabilities in decision-making, and the virtues of persistence and optimism in tackling challenges. 

In today’s increasingly polarized climate, it’s important to understand the value of seeking diverse perspectives to avoid mental traps and the power of collective cognition in decision-making. From probabilistic thinking to scientific optimism this conversation showcases how applying the scientific method can enhance not only our individual way of thinking but our interactions with the world. 

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[4:08] Intro and speed round

[7:48] Scientific method and experimentation in various fields

[16:54] Using probability to make informed decisions

[21:34] Dangers of polarization and the importance of making quick estimates

[28:08] Using mathematical estimates to solve problems

[32:55] Scientific optimism in the face of challenges

[43:05] Collective cognition and the importance of acknowledging uncertainty

[50:35] Grooving Session: Using the scientific method to improve thinking

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Third Millennium Thinking: Creating Sense in a World of Nonsense

Nobel Prize - Saul Perlmutter

Rob MacCoun

Steven Pinker

The Law of Group Polarization

Musical Links

Jazz Classics

John Williams, Star Wars

Have you ever wondered how your childhood experiences influence your adult relationships and behaviors?

This week, Kurt and Tim jump into attachment theory with renowned clinical psychologist Dr. Judy Ho. They explore the different types of secure and insecure attachment, and how our early bonds with primary caregivers shape our developmental years and influence our adult behavior and relationships. Dr. Ho explains how attachment styles can influence our worldview, and how these styles manifest in our self-talk and stress responses.  Our past doesn’t define our future, and the discussion highlights the importance of understanding and healing our attachment issues at any age. 

And it wouldn’t be Behavioral Grooves without some music! Dr. Ho joins Tim and Kurt (mostly Tim) in a conversation about the therapeutic role music has on emotional regulation and self-care.  Music can help replace unhelpful patterns with healthier ones and can help ground us and promote mindfulness. 

Mindfulness is key in this week’s Grooving Session, with Kurt and Tim emphasizing the importance of slowing down and being mindful in daily life.  Through personal anecdotes and reflections, they wrap up the episode with actionable advice and valuable strategies for personal growth and emotional well-being. 

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[5:27] Intro and speed round

[8:19] Attachment theory and its impact on adult behavior

[10:50] Attachment styles and relationships

[15:53] Understanding attachment styles and their impact

[25:07] Self-help techniques to manage emotions

[34:29] The importance of mindfulness

[42:51] Music’s role in self-care

[50:07] Grooving Session: Attachment theory, self-regulation, and mindfulness

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

The New Rules of Attachment: How to Heal Your Relationships, Reparent Your Inner Child, and Secure Your Life Vision

APA Definition of Attachment Theory

Dr. Judy Ho

Penn State Worry Questionnaire (Free-Abridged)

Mindfulness Meditation

LaFreniere LS, Newman MG. “Exposing Worry's Deceit: Percentage of Untrue Worries in Generalized Anxiety Disorder Treatment,” Behavioral Therapy. 2020 May; 51(3):413-423. doi: 10.1016/j.beth.2019.07.003. Epub 2019 Jul 17. PMID: 32402257; PMCID: PMC7233480. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7233480/ 

Aretha Franklin “Think”

John Lennon “Stand By Me”

Have you ever struggled with the pitfalls of imposter syndrome in the workplace? Been wracked with self-doubt when leading your teams?

Join Kurt and Tim as they dive into these topics and many more with Martin Gonzalez, co-author of "The Bonfire Moment." They explore the intricacies of leadership, team dynamics, and overcoming obstacles in startups. Martin shares his expertise on uniting teams to solve problems through a unique workshop process and identifies common traps that founders often encounter.

Listen in as Martin opens up about his journey with self-doubt and imposter syndrome as an immigrant, providing a candid look at the human side of leadership. Kurt, Tim, and Martin cover various topics including leadership styles, organizational structures, the pitfalls of over-functioning teams, and achieving a productive work-life balance. While you might never love everything about your job, it is possible to enjoy most of your job if you manage your expectations and strategize for success. 

In startups, people issues need to take center stage, and the trio highlights the need for vulnerability, effective communication, and nurturing relationships within growing companies. If you’re looking for new motivation and a confidence boost at work, don't miss this insightful episode packed with valuable takeaways for anyone involved in the startup world!

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[5:58] Introduction and Speed Round

[10:16] What is a bonfire moment?

[14:02] Why soft skills are more important than soft skills

[17:54] Leadership styles and their impact on success

[22:37] Common start-up traps

[32:10] Startup myths, leadership, and best practices

[41:11] Overcoming blind spots and insecurities in leadership

[46:43] Imposter Syndrome and gender stereotypes

[55:04] Productivity, creativity, and music preferences

[1:01:14] Grooving Session: Leadership, emotional intelligence, and scaling business

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

“The Bonfire Moment - Bring Your Team Together to Solve the Hardest Problems Startups Face” by Joshua Yellin and Martin Gonzales

About Martin

Culture Amp

How Corporate Leadership and Turnover Affect Startup Success

Eric Clapton “Wonderful Tonight”

Elton John “Your Song”

Mozart “Lacrimosa”

When was the last time you wanted to speak up, but were too afraid to?

This week, embark on a riveting exploration of silence with Kurt, Tim, and special guest Elaine Lin Herring, author of Unlearning Silence. Through rich conversation, they delve into the intricate dynamics of power, societal expectations, and the profound impact of silence in our personal and professional lives. Elaine illuminates the hidden complexities behind our communication patterns, urging listeners to challenge ingrained norms and create inclusive spaces where every voice is heard. From dissecting workplace dynamics to sharing personal anecdotes, the trio navigates the journey of self-awareness and collective empowerment with remarkable depth and clarity.

As the conversation unfolds, we invite you to reflect on your own experiences of silence and consider the transformative potential of embracing diverse communication styles. This conversation offers practical strategies for fostering open dialogue and nurturing psychological safety within teams and organizations. Break free from the confines of silence, and learn how to foster a culture of authenticity, innovation, and belonging. Tune in to this enlightening episode as we journey towards unlearning silence and amplifying voices in a world hungry for change.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[2:34] Introduction and speed round

[4:29] The pros and cons of silence and speaking up

[9:35] Workplace silence and its impact on employees

[15:37] The negative effects of silencing

[20:08] Communication preferences and their impact on team dynamics

[25:16] Creating open communication environments

[34:48] Unlearning silence and social isolation

[46:55] Music’s impact on life

[49:58] Grooving Session: Speaking up and the culture of accountability

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Unlearning Silence - How to Speak Your Mind, Unleash Talent, and Live More Fully

Elaine Lin Hering

What Doctors Wish Patients Knew About Social Isolation

Lessons from The Challenger

Harvard Negotiation Project

Miles Davis - So What

Elevation Worship - Praise

Ketamine therapy has recently been a hot topic in the mental health industry, but what exactly is ketamine therapy? Who is it for, and what are the benefits/risks associated with it?

Dive into the forefront of mental health innovation with Kurt, Tim, and special guest Dr. Elizabeth Lombardo as they unpack the groundbreaking potential of ketamine therapy as a transformative treatment for depression and anxiety. Dr. Lombardo sheds light on the mechanisms behind ketamine therapy's effectiveness, sharing promising research findings and cautionary notes on its administration under careful medical supervision. Dr. Lombardo goes through the nuances of ketamine therapy, and how to use it as part of a comprehensive mental health strategy rather than a quick-fix solution.

As always, the more you know, the better equipped you are to face life’s challenges. Beyond the cutting-edge realm of ketamine therapy, Kurt, Tim, and Dr. Lombardo look at practical coping strategies and evidence-based practices for enhancing mental well-being. From cognitive behavioral therapy techniques to the healing power of nature and gratitude, they share personal stories and insightful perspectives to empower listeners on their mental health journey. With a compassionate approach and a focus on holistic healing, this episode offers actionable insights and thought-provoking dialogue that promise to inspire and inform. 

Tune in for an engaging exploration of mental health and resilience that challenges conventional wisdom and fosters hope for a brighter future. Join the conversation and discover new ways to nurture your well-being, one step at a time.

Disclaimer: The discussion of ketamine in this episode of Behavioral Grooves is purely exploratory and should not be interpreted as medical advice or encouragement to use ketamine. Any consideration of ketamine therapy should be approached cautiously and only under the supervision of a qualified healthcare professional.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] A quick note from Kurt and Tim on ketamine therapy and depression

[5:38] Introduction and speed round

[7:00] Mental health treatment options and stigma

[12:04] Stress, anxiety, and new frontiers in therapy

[16:32] Mental health signs and seeking help

[21:17] Ketamine therapy for depression and anxiety

[31:21] Combining ketamine therapy with other mental health interventions

[37:05] Educating others on ketamine therapy

[40:17] Desert island music

[46:58] Mental illness, ketamine treatment, and self-care options

[49:28] Grooving session: Mental health treatments, coping strategies, and research

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Dr. Elizabeth Lombardo

Mindbloom

NIH on Major Depression

Harvard Medical School: When is KT safe for treatment-resistant depression?

CBT

Bruno Mars - Uptown Funk

Maroon 5 - This Love

Originally published as Why Talking To Strangers Is Actually Good For Your Wellbeing | Nick Epley

Embark on a journey of rediscovery as we revisit an episode that's sure to reignite your passion for meaningful connections. Join us as we delve into the timeless wisdom of Nick Epley, whose insights continue to resonate with listeners old and new.

Do you strike up a conversation with a stranger on a plane or while waiting in line? If you don’t already, you will after listening to Nick Epley in this episode. Nick talks through his extensive research about talking to people we encounter and how it actually boosts our wellbeing.

While many of us may default to surface-level exchanges, Nick challenges us to embrace the depths of genuine connection. But let's not forget the elephant in the room – initiating these conversations can be a daunting task. Fear not! Nick equips us with the tools to overcome our hesitations and dive headfirst into meaningful dialogue.

Nick Epley is the John Templeton Keller Professor of Behavior Science and Director of the Center for Decision Research at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. With his unparalleled expertise in social cognition, Nick sheds light on why understanding one another is often easier said than done. Nick wrote the book “Mindwise: Why We Misunderstand What Others Think, Believe, Feel, and Want” and through its pages, Nick invites us to peer into the inner workings of the human mind. 

As always, hosts Kurt and Tim end the show with a Grooving Session, distilling the essence of our conversation into actionable insights. But if there is just one thing you take away from this episode, dear listeners, is never hesitant to seize the opportunity to pay a compliment.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[3:40] Welcome and speed round questions.

[4:57] Why it’s better to have a deep and meaningful conversation with a stranger?

[7:18] Why are we reluctant to talk to strangers about something meaningful?

[13:46] Why did Nick start studying undersociality?

[21:06] What happens when strangers talk on a train?

[29:33] How do you start a conversation with a stranger?

[33:20] The benefits of a compliment.

[39:21] Nick’s work in the future.

[43:35] The mind-blowing way to get someone else’s perspective?

[47:49] What music influences Nick.

[51:24] Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim discussing what we learned from Nick Epley.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Nicholas Epley

“Mindwise: Why We Misunderstand What Others Think, Believe, Feel, and Want” by Nick Epley

Gary Becker

Liz Dunn at University of British Columbia

Metallica “Master of Puppets”

David Tolk, piano player “Amazing Grace”

“All Creatures Great and Small” music 

Could asking the right questions transform your conversations? That’s the question of the week for Kurt and Tim, as they delve into the power of inquiry and active listening with this week’s esteemed guest, author Jeff Wetzler. Jeff, the author of "Ask," shares groundbreaking research and surprising insights about the impact of asking the right questions, offering listeners a roadmap to navigate the complexities of communication with wit and wisdom.

From the boardroom to the dinner table, effective communication skills are essential. Discover how active listening can not only boost productivity and increase employee satisfaction but also foster deeper, more meaningful relationships. Through thought-provoking discussions and real-world examples, Kurt, Tim, and Jeff challenge conventional wisdom to help listeners gain a deeper understanding of how to engage authentically in both their professional and personal lives.

Ready to level up your communication game? Tune in to this episode for actionable insights and inspiration. Whether you’re a seasoned leader or simply a curious listener, get ready to embark on a journey of compassionate curiosity and active listening. Join the conversation and let us know what questions you have about this episode or Behavioral Grooves! We’d love to hear from you.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[5:40] Introduction and Speed Round

[11:22] The “Ask Approach” and the power of curiosity

[18:00] Effective listening and learning from others

[26:06] Creating a safe space for open communication

[34:43] Using curiosity to interrupt certainty and gain new perspectives

[43:35] Vibe listening and interpreting conversations

[48:51] Desert Island music

[53:51] Grooving session - the importance of asking questions, active listening, and micro-expressions

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

** Rankin, Paul T. “The Importance of Listening Ability.” The English Journal, vol. 17, no. 8, 1928, pp. 623–30. JSTOR, https://doi.org/10.2307/803100. Accessed 10 Apr. 2024.

Ask by Jeff Wetzler

More about Jeff

What is Active Listening?

Paul Simon - 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover

Indigo Girls - Closer to Fine

Dave Carter and Tracey Grammer - When I Go

Ever find yourself coasting on autopilot a bit too often in your daily routine? Seeking ways to be more present and truly connect with your habits to enhance your life? Join Kurt and Tim on a profound exploration into the world of sense foraging and breaking free from autopilot habits.

In this enlightening episode, Kurt and Tim are joined by special guests Norman Farb and Zindel Segal, esteemed researchers in psychology and neuroscience, and co-authors of the insightful book "Better in Every Sense." Together, they delve into the transformative power of intentional sensory exploration, curiosity, and savoring to elevate everyday experiences. Dive into the complexities of modern life, including the challenges of stress, burnout, and dysregulation, while gaining valuable insights into understanding your ‘default mode’ and the pivotal role of the salience network in directing your focus to the present moment.

Discover actionable strategies for integrating sense foraging into your daily life, from relishing the flavor of your morning coffee to heightening your awareness of the sensations in your environment. In their grooving session, Kurt and Tim underscore the importance of breaking away from habitual routines and fostering mindfulness to improve decision-making and overall well-being. Whether you're seeking to shift your perspective or embark on a journey toward intentional living, this episode offers invaluable guidance to kickstart your transformation. Tune in now and take the first step toward finding your groove!

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[5:10] Intro and speed round

[7:30] Default mode - breaking out and toggling in

[11:56] House of Habit

[18:42] Perceptual inference and active inference

[23:53] How foraging leads to a better life

[29:26] Toggle in for engagement and break away from default mode

[39:12] Sensory engagement and learning

[44:33] Hearing vs. listening

[46:58] Desert island music

[53:44] Grooving session: habits, autopilot, and how to create your own groove moments

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Better in Every Sense: How the New Science of Sensation Can Help You Reclaim Your Life

Norman Farb

Zindel Segal

Default Mode Network (DMN)

Paying Attention to Senses Can Help Reset the Mind

The Rolling Stones “Winter”

Underworld “Born Slippy” 

Cream “Sunshine of Your Love” 

A Tribe Called Quest “Can I Kick It?” 

What separates a ritual from a habit? Join Kurt and Tim this week as they delve into the intriguing world of rituals and habits with special guest Mike Norton, acclaimed author of The Ritual Effect. Together, they explore the nuances that distinguish rituals from mere habits, shedding light on how rituals infuse our daily lives with meaning and significance.

According to Michael, rituals are more than just actions; they're meaningful celebrations or purpose-driven practices that elevate our routines. From something as simple as brushing your teeth to larger group activities, the trio discusses how rituals add depth and emotion to our everyday experiences.

As the episode unfolds, Kurt, Tim, and Mike examine how rituals impact not only individuals but also relationships and work teams. They navigate the delicate balance between rituals that unite and those that divide, emphasizing the importance of consensus in fostering a sense of belonging and satisfaction.

Through personal anecdotes and keen insights, the trio offers listeners a thought-provoking journey into the profound influence of rituals on behavior, perceptions, and relationships. Don't miss out on this enlightening discussion! Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of the rituals that shape our lives. And if you enjoy the episode, be sure to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform—we'd love to hear your thoughts and continue the conversation.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[5:33] Intro and speed round

[10:24] Is brushing your teeth a ritual?

[14:00] The benefits and limitations of rituals and habits in daily life

[20:19] Rituals in relationships

[24:00] The meaning behind group rituals

[33:20] Corporate team-building activities

[42:33] The role of music in cultural rituals and traditions

[51:27] Grooving session: Rituals and their meanings in daily life

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

The Ritual Effect

Michael Norton

Michael's TED Talk - Why Rituals Matter

The Band “Atlantic City”

Gillian Welch “I Want to Sing That Rock and Roll”

Buddy Holly “Rave On”

Arlo Guthrie “Alice’s Restaurant Massacree”

Dive deep into the realm of behavioral science with Kurt and Tim this week as they explore the scalability of behavioral nudges and interventions through the groundbreaking research of Silvia Saccardo. Discover how Silvia's work sheds light on the effectiveness of interventions, from COVID-19 vaccination reminders to improving student sleep habits.

Unveil the nuanced impact of nudges and their effectiveness for motivated individuals, as Silvia shares insights from her studies and personalized intervention strategies. In their discussion, Kurt and Tim dissect the implications of Silvia's research, emphasizing the importance of precision in deploying nudges for maximum scalability and impact.

Join the conversation to learn how understanding behavioral principles can revolutionize intervention customization, catering to diverse contexts, populations, and behaviors. Gain invaluable insights into shaping habits effectively through cues and rewards, empowering you to encourage desired behaviors in everyday life. Tune in and unlock the secrets of behavioral science with practical applications.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[6:17] Intro and speed round

[11:18] Scalability and the effectiveness of interventions

[14:19] COVID vaccination reminders: Study

[26:15] Sleep interventions and their impact on academic performance: Study

[34:21] The effectiveness of cue rewarding in sleep interventions

[40:12] The impact of small incentives of sleep habits

[47:19] Desert island music

[51:39] Grooving Session: Nudges, scalability, and interventions in behavioral science

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Silvia Saccardo

Behavioral Nudges Increase COVID-19 Vaccinations

Improving Educational Performance Through Better Sleep Habits

Måneskin “OFF MY FACE”

Taylor Swift “Cruel Summer”

Ed Sheeran “Thinking Out Loud”

Curious about how prioritizing happiness can transform leadership and workplace dynamics? Well, look no further than this week’s discussion with Gonzalo Camiña Ceballos, CEO of BeWay, a Mexico City/Madrid-based company paving the way in bringing the principles of behavioral science to the workplace.  In this conversation, Kurt, Tim, and Gonzalo dive deep into the realms of humanistic management, personal fulfillment, and the concept of “eudaimonic leadership”, and how all these factors can make or break your experience in the workplace. 

Gonzalo emphasizes the importance of prioritizing the happiness and fulfillment of employees to achieve organizational success and challenges conventional leadership norms while advocating for a more holistic approach to employee well-being.  In a post-pandemic world where RTO mandates are on the rise, all of us need to find deeper connections and meaning in our jobs. Throughout the conversation, Gonzalo helps us to see a future where people have passion and purpose in their work and feel a greater sense of community in their daily jobs and beyond. 

Join Kurt, Tim, and Gonzalo as they navigate the intersections of leadership, happiness, and personal fulfillment, offering thought-provoking insights into redefining success and finding your groove in both work and life. Whether you're a leader seeking innovative approaches to organizational management or an individual on a quest for personal growth and self-discovery, this episode offers valuable perspectives and inspiration to guide you on your journey.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[4:18] Intro and speed round

[6:55] Behavioral science in corporate work departments

[16:13] Using behavioral science in debt collection

[26:53] Career development

[31:06] Prioritizing employee happiness in business

[35:47] Leadership, employee happiness, and scalability

[41:27] Desert island music choices

[46:08] Finding one's groove in life

[54:17] Grooving session: leadership, management, and behavioral science

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

BeWay - The Behavioral Way

Are Happy Employees More Productive?

Shakira “La Tortura”

Post Malone “Circles”

So many voices, who do we listen to? The loudest, most senior or most popular voice?

Our lives are rife with pivotal moments yet it’s harder to get decisions right. However, amidst this whirlwind, we at Behavioral Grooves recently made a resounding decision – to tune in and sit down with a guest who could help us untangle the intricacies of decision-making in the modern noisy world.

Enter Nuala Walsh, the insightful author of “Tune In – How to Make Smarter Decisions in a Noisy World”. Joining Kurt and Tim, she delves deep into the labyrinth of misjudgement, reveals the ten PERIMETERS™ traps dissecting the cognitive mechanisms that stop us hearing the voices that really matter. In this illuminating dialogue, the trio navigates the idea of psychological ‘deaf spots’ – why we tune out and offers pragmatic strategies for becoming a more powerful and influential Decision Ninja.

Discover the significance of concepts like ‘tuning in’ versus ‘tuning out’, and how our biases can be exacerbated by unchecked information filtering and neglected interpretation. Arm yourself with the revolutionary SONIC framework and explore the notion of ‘decision friction’.

Throughout the conversation, Walsh provides fascinating examples and actionable insights to recalibrate our thought processes towards more deliberate and well-considered judgement calls. Judgment isn’t taught but it is assumed especially in positions of power.

As always, our episode culminates in a Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim, where they bare personal anecdotes of cognitive biases and memory lapses – showcasing the myriad ways our judgment can be swayed.

Whether you’re grappling with a monumental decision or not, this episode is a must-listen for all. Don’t fall victim to the narrow thinking of the PERIMETERS effect – tune in and make more socially responsible decisions, not just to protect your career but to save time, money and lives.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[5:50] Introduction and Speed Round

[10:42] Tuning in/out in a noisy world

[15:13] Decision-making and the impact of individual choices

[19:48] Ethics and whistleblowers

[22:57] Cognitive biases and judgment traps

[30:14] Decision-making strategies and mindset

[37:01] Desert island music choices

[40:39] Grooving session: Attention, focus, and savoring everyday moments

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Nuala Walsh's Website

Tune In 

Global Association of Applied Behavioral Sciences 

Course: The Science of Well-Being

www.mindequity.co.uk 

Celine Dion “It’s All Coming Back to Me Now”

Bruce Springsteen “Dancing in the Dark”

Depeche Mode “Enjoy the Silence”

March always feels like one of those months where you hit a slump. Work is back in full force, there are no holidays in sight, and life can start to feel a bit overwhelming like you can’t catch a break. In other words, if you’re reading this, you might be feeling burnt out.

But what exactly is burnout? Is it real? Or is it just a dramatic way of saying “I’m tired”? Join Kurt and Tim as they chat with Dr. Kandi Wiens, author of Burnout Immunity, about the very real psychological syndrome of burnout and how it can affect our day-to-day lives.  In this episode, Dr. Wiens explores the symptoms of burnout and teaches us how we can build immunity to burnout through emotional intelligence and self-awareness. 

In this insightful interview, Dr. Wiens emphasizes the signs of escalating stress levels and offers practical and easily implementable strategies for stress management in your daily life. Fighting burnout isn't just about a quick fix; it's about reevaluating work priorities and self-perception—and yes, the role of music in emotional regulation, much to Tim's joy!

The episode winds down with a grooving session between Kurt and Tim, where they discuss how they’ve experienced burnout in their own lives and offer listeners actionable steps to safeguarding against burnout and fostering emotional resilience in the workplace and beyond. If you are feeling at risk for burnout or have experienced it in the past, you won’t want to miss this episode!

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[3:58] Introduction and Speed Round

[6:02] Burnout and common symptoms associated with it

[15:25] Workplace burnout and generational differences

[20:05] Strategies for avoiding burnout

[29:57] Managing stress and uncertainty at work

[34:26] Emotional intelligence, self-care, and negative self-talk

[39:47] Music’s role in emotional regulation

[44:56] Grooving session: Burnout, stress, and language

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

The Burnout Quiz

Burnout Immunity: How Emotional Intelligence Can Help You Build Resilience and Heal Your Relationship with Work

Dr. Kandi Wiens’ Website

Garth Brooks “The Dance”

Dave Matthews Band “Ants Marching”

We’re back to our regularly scheduled program this week and full of energy - or should we say Energy Rising?

Join Kurt and Tim as they embark on a captivating exploration of emotional intelligence in this episode featuring Dr. Julia DiGangi, author of "Energy Rising." Delve into the intricate relationship between neuroscience and emotions as Dr. DiGangi uncovers the transformative potential of understanding our emotional landscape.

Discover how our emotions serve as the catalyst for our actions and choices, and why confronting emotional discomfort is crucial for personal evolution. Dr. DiGangi advocates for embracing uncertainty and anxiety, highlighting how these experiences can foster deeper connections, self-awareness, and confidence.

Through insightful analysis, Kurt and Tim delve into Dr. DiGangi’s perspectives on trauma recovery, the incremental growth of emotional intelligence, and the significance of starting small to build resilience gradually. As they say, you don’t start skiing on a black diamond – it’s all about mastering the bunny slope first (unless, of course, you’re Kurt, but that’s a story for another podcast).

If you’re seeking inspiration to push beyond your comfort zone and challenge your own stagnation, tune in to glean wisdom from Dr. DiGangi on how to fortify your resilience and elevate your energy. Discover the transformative power of emotional intelligence and witness your energy soar.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

[5:52] Intro and Speed Round

[8:55] Emotional pain and how it impacts our lives

[13:54] Emotional intelligence and decision-making

[24:17] Embracing pain for personal growth

[32:36] How emotions impact our nervous system

[38:11] Trauma, healing, and the intersection of science and faith

[48:40] Desert Island music

[50:23] Grooving Session: Emotions, risk, and uncertainty

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

John Bowby’s Attachment Theory

Marcus Aurelius - Mediations

Energy Rising: The Neuroscience of Leading with Emotional Power

Dr. Julia DiGangi

The Eagles “Hotel California”

John Mayer “Gravity”

Don Henley “The Boys of Summer”

In their final wrap-up, Kurt and Tim reflect on their recent series "They Thought We Were Ridiculous" and the insightful conversations they shared with leading figures in behavioral economics.

Throughout this engaging discussion, they delve into how small, dedicated groups have catalyzed significant shifts in both thought and practice within the field. They emphasize that behavioral economics didn't emerge fully developed; rather, it required the combined efforts of brilliant minds, collaboration, and unwavering perseverance in the face of adversity to shape the impactful field we know today.

During the episode, Kurt and Tim stress the importance of effecting change from within existing systems and encourage listeners to identify and capitalize on fortunate opportunities. Success isn't by chance - it often hinges on embracing uncertainty and seizing unforeseen circumstances.

Tune in for invaluable insights into the evolution of behavioral economics and discover actionable strategies for driving meaningful change in your own pursuits. Don't miss this exciting conclusion to our series—a compelling exploration of human behavior and the transformative potential of collaboration and perseverance.

Episode 1: Beyond Anomalies

Episode 2: Importing Psychology

Episode 3: Children of Unlikely Parents

Episode 4: Behavioral Economics Goes Mainstream

Episode 5: The Future

Join Kurt and Tim as they exhale a collective sigh of relief and take a moment to reflect on the completion of their monumental project, "They Thought We Were Ridiculous" (available now! Wherever you listen to podcasts).

In this captivating conversation, Kurt and Tim delve into the wealth of insights they've gleaned from their immersive and unexpectedly prolonged journey into the annals of behavioral economics history. From navigating the intricacies of managing a side project within a side project to riding the tumultuous waves of multi-party collaboration, they candidly explore the peaks and valleys of their remarkable experience.

But true to the essence of "Behavioral Grooves," Kurt and Tim infuse a touch of scientific rigor into their reflections. They dissect the hurdles they encountered, drawing upon their knowledge of behavioral science and human tendencies to dissect how these factors both aided and hindered them along the way. After all, they know all too well that the planning fallacy isn't just a catchy term—it's a very real phenomenon!

As you unwind with Kurt and Tim, they invite you to peer behind the curtain at the making of "They Thought We Were Ridiculous," offering invaluable insights gleaned from their journey. Whether you're embarking on your own side project, contemplating the launch of one, or find yourself mired in the midst of one, let Kurt and Tim be your trusted guides, imparting thoughtful wisdom and sharing their firsthand experiences every step of the way.

Episode 1: Beyond Anomalies

Episode 2: Importing Psychology

Episode 3: Children of Unlikely Parents

Episode 4: Behavioral Economics Goes Mainstream

Episode 5: The Future

Exploring the future of Behavioral Economics, we talked to three young researchers who are pushing the field further. A new generation of researchers is striving to understand decision-making in the developing world, how brains process economic decisions, and how bigger, more transparent scientific methods can shed light on basic principles of choice.

However, the journey toward new discoveries is not without its challenges. Behavioral Economics faces an identity crisis amid shifting perspectives, prompting a reevaluation of its approaches. Discover how this introspection may catalyze a more pragmatic ethos within the field, prioritizing real-world impact over theoretical abstraction. Join us as we navigate this nuanced landscape, engaging with the innovative minds shaping the future of behavioral economics with a blend of boldness, innovation, and pragmatism.

• How behavioral economics is revolutionizing farming in developing nations
• Discover groundbreaking revelations about the decision-making process
• Why there needs to be shift towards transparency in scientific practices to ensure a brighter future
• The new collaboration between Behavioral Economists and tech innovators and what it means for the future

Eventually, Behavioral Economics emerged as an influential perspective. It’s become mainstream in Economics, and it’s helped inform programs and policies that affect real people every day. But where do we see this impact? Explore the pervasive influence of Behavioral Economics in our everyday lives and beyond, from shaping individual decision-making to informing government policy design. Witness the ongoing evolution of this once radical field as it continues to inspire innovation and shape policies for better societal outcomes.

• Explore how behavioral economics conquered economics’ stronghold
• Discover how psychology integration sparks innovative retirement savings solutions
• Uncover the UK and US government’s bold ventures into science-driven policy making
• Witness the global expanison of behvioral insights teams and their impact on addressing complex societal challenges

 Behavioral Economics was using psychology to understand economics, but what did economists and psychologists think about their unexpected marriage? Slowly, this fledgling field weathered a flurry of criticism from both sides as it doggedly held onto data-driven ideas about economic decision-making. This tension epitomized a broader struggle within Behavioral Economics, which aimed to harmonize insights from both disciplines while challenging traditional economic paradigms.

Embark on a journey that wasn't always smooth sailing. Unearth the fundamental clash between economists and psychologists, revealing their contrasting views on empirical evidence and theory. From contentious debates over ownership to deliberations on what to name it, the path to integrating these fields was filled with unforeseen twists, turns, and triumphs.

• Economists push back to new behavioral approaches
• How psychologists fought for a seat at the table
• Where did the name “behavioral economics” come from?
• The benefits we gain from integrating disciplines and perspectives

The notion of merging psychology with economics initially faced staunch skepticism, with errors perceived as random rather than systematic. However, everything changed when psychologists Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky joined forces, armed with groundbreaking ideas about human decision-making. Their meticulous research not only introduced a fresh perspective on understanding people’s choices but also ignited the flames of Behavioral Economics. Through collaboration with other influential figures in the field, including Richard Thaler, their work spearheaded a transformative movement that challenged conventional economic assumptions, propelled novel ideas forward, and seamlessly integrated psychological theories into economic theory and practice.

• Are errors random or systematic? The challenges of merging psychology with economics
• Why we rely on quick mental shortcuts in decision-making
• How a single question can short-circuit the rational mind
• The importance of marrying psychology and economics for understanding our behaviors

For decades, neoclassical economists clung to the belief that humans are rational decision-makers, but a daring group of social scientists dared to question this notion. Join us as we explore their pioneering work, from the revolutionary concept of bounded rationality to the eye-opening Cab Driver Study. Through meticulous observations and rigorous analysis, these trailblazers shattered the status quo, ushering in a new era of economic thought.

Discover how real-world scenarios defied the rationality assumption, from the baffling fluctuations in stock market behavior to the surprising insights gleaned from everyday decision-making. As we unravel the complexities of economic behavior, we invite you to join us on a radical journey of discovery and transformation. Together, let's challenge traditional notions, advocate for a more nuanced understanding of human behavior, and pave the way for a brighter future in economics and beyond. This is more than just a podcast—it's a revolution.

• Are humans really rational decision makers?
• The radical concept of bounded rationality
• The surprising ways in which workers don’t optimize their earnings
• How the stock market defies pure rationality

Feeling indecisive? Ever wondered what it takes to master the art of decision-making? Join us on a thrilling journey with Elspeth Kirkman, the brilliant mind behind the groundbreaking book 'Decision Scape: The Art of Getting Perspective.' 

In this episode, Kurt and Tim dive deep into the captivating world of decision-making as Kirkman takes us on an adventure through the intricacies of perspective. What if decision-making was more than just a process – what if it was an art form? Prepare to be captivated as we explore the four pillars of perspective – distance, viewpoint, composition, and frame – and uncover their essential role in navigating life's choices. 

Buckle up and get ready to challenge your perceptions as we delve into the profound influence of language, culture, and even the power of voice in shaping our decisions. Are you ready to embrace multiple perspectives and unlock the secrets to making informed choices? Kirkman's insights offer a fresh and dynamic approach to decision-making, empowering listeners to navigate life's complexities with newfound clarity and introspection. So, what are you waiting for? Make the right decision and tune in!

And don’t forget to stay tuned to Behavioral Grooves for exciting upcoming announcements! Like, share, and follow us on social media for more exciting updates on our new, limited series  They Thought We Were Ridiculous coming out later in February!

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

(0:50) Important Behavioral Grooves announcement!

(6:17) Introduction and speed round

(12:19) The relationship between decision-making and art

(18:38) The importance of perspective

(26:31) Language’s impact on decision-making

(36:26) Taboo words, culture, and anxiety

(43:52) Music preferences and writing habits

(50:05) Grooving Session: Decision-making and creativity

(1:15:19) “Another Orion” by Tim Houlihan

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Decision Scape: The Art of Getting Perspective by Elspeth Kirkman

The Statue of David by Michelangelo

Behave by Robert Sapolsky

"They Thought We Were Ridiculous": Five-part series on the history of behavioral economics - Coming Soon!

Tim Houlihan "Another Orion"

Smashing Pumpkins "1979"

Lucinda Williams "Can't Let Go"

Anticipation mounts as the countdown begins! Prepare to immerse yourself in the riveting saga of They Thought We Were Ridiculous, set to premiere and stream on your Behavioral Grooves feed come February 26th!

Two great podcasts. Three years of recording and research. Interviews with the Nobel Laureates, esteemed professors, and policymakers at the heart of a movement. It all combines to tell the unlikely story of how a group of tenacious thinkers pushed back against tradition and built ideas with impact.

Across this five-part series, we highlight the remarkable evolution of behavioral economics. From a group of rogue psychologists and economists who were openly ridiculed at conferences to a vital voice in government policy and corporate governance. Behavioral economists shape the way decisions are made. After they entered the fray, economic theory would never be the same.

Join Kurt, Tim, and Andy as we celebrate the culmination of three years of relentless dedication, unveiling a meticulously crafted five-part series that promises to captivate and inspire. Mark your calendars for February 26th, when this transformative saga will unfold in its entirety. Don't forget to subscribe, tune in, and engage with us as we delve into the riveting world of behavioral economics. Together, let's embark on this extraordinary journey!

They Thought We Were Ridiculous Website

LinkedIn: Behavioral Grooves

Instagram: @behavioralgrooves

Facebook: Behavioral Grooves

Twitter: @behavioralgroov

Could a simple question be the key to unlocking deeper, more meaningful relationships?

Join Kurt and Tim on a special Valentine's Day episode of their podcast as they explore the transformative potential of simple questions in relationships with Topaz Adizes. Author of "12 Questions for Love" and founder of the innovative project {THE AND}, Topaz shares insights into creating intimate spaces for conversations and mastering non-judgmental listening.

Together, they delve into the profound impact of well-constructed questions, emphasizing their role in promoting personal growth and deeper connections. Drawing from rich experiences observing human behavior, Topaz offers invaluable advice on deep listening and reframing questions for meaningful dialogue. Whether you're coupled up or flying solo, tune in to discover practical strategies for fostering more fulfilling relationships and cultivating genuine connections in every aspect of life.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

(0:00) St. Valentine’s Day and special announcements

(6:21) Introduction and speed round

(10:47) Creating space for relationship exploration

(15:59) Reframing questions for personal growth

(23:15) Deep listening and connection in relationships

(35:13) Asking powerful questions to improve relationships

(39:31) The power of deep conversations

(47:29) Deepening relationships through emotional articulation

(59:09) Grooving on relationships and communication

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

The Skin Deep

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-_lLdOVYCxsxHMzUsVYsXg 

12 Questions on Love

Collins, Hanne K, et al. “When Listening Is Spoken.” Current Opinion in Psychology, Elsevier 

Newcomer, Sarah N, and Kathleen M Cowin. “Collaborative Conversations for Culturally Sustaining, Socially Just Pedagogy: Creating a Safe Space for Dialogue and Practice.” 

Bob Marley “Buffalo Soldier”

John Coltrane “Blue Train”

Ever wonder how to boost your retirement savings? Could the subtle art of behavioral economics hold the answer? Join Tim in this solo-sode as he explores this with guest John Beshears. Uncover the impact of automatic enrollment on participation rates and the potential downside of increased debt. Beshears' research reveals unique strategies, like framing savings as "fresh starts." Maximize your savings and delve into the evolution of behavioral economics with Tim and John in this weeks captivating episode. 

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

(7:43) Introduction and Speed Round

(12:23) The Impact of Auto-Enrollment on Retirement Savings

(16:41) The Psychology Behind Financial Decision Making

(22:31) Automatic Enrollment, Savings, and Employee Debt

(33:48) Long Term Effects

(37:37) Reframing Savings and “Fresh Starts”

(46:04) Jazz Music and Productivity

(52:35) Grooving Session: Behavioral Science and Retirement Savings

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Automatic Enrollment and Financial Stress

Fresh Start Approach to Savings

Behavioral Economics in Action Conference

Seaweed Farmers and Pod Sizes

Behavioral Grooves Patreon

Charlie Parker at Massey Hall

Mose Allison "Everybody Cryin' Mercy"

Lightnin' Hopkins "What Kind of Woman is This?"

Phillip Glass "Opening"

It's time for a throwback episode!

Dive into the land down under of behavioral sciences with Bri Williams, a trailblazer in applying behavioral principles to the business landscape. As a devoted follower of visionaries like Dan Ariely, BJ Fogg, and Richard Thaler, Bri recognized the need for more than just frameworks in the business community – they needed practical tools. Founder of PeoplePatterns, Bri transforms the abstract concepts of behavioral science into actionable strategies for business leaders.

In this enlightening conversation, Bri unveils her unique model focused on dismantling barriers to behavior change: apathy, paralysis, and anxiety. Explore intriguing topics such as priming and Bri's keen observations of nudges in the world. Delve into her book, "Behavioural Economics for Business," and enjoy the journey as we explore various rabbit holes including... origami of toilet paper?

Join us in this immersive conversation with Bri Williams. Share this episode with a friend, and let's expand the community of behavioral science enthusiasts together!

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Topics

(4:08) Introduction and Speed Round

(7:11) Developing a Behavioral Framework

(13:23) Business Model for Behavior Change

(18:50) Comparing other models

(25:15) Origami of Toilet Paper with Lou Carbone

(33:00) 3 Tips for improving habits

(39:10) Music recommendations

(41:56) Grooving Session

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Behavioural Economics for Business

Training and Coaching with Bri

Origami Toilet Paper

Pauline Herr "Limitless" 

Angus & Julia Stone "Chateau"

Set sail into the uncharted waters of behavioral science with Kurt and Tim on a captivating journey led by PhD candidate Linnea Gandhi. Together, they explore the revolutionary concept of Nudge Cartography, a groundbreaking initiative that seeks to map the intricate landscape of behavioral nudges – those subtle interventions designed to shape human behavior. If you're scratching your head wondering, "Nudge Cartography? What's that?" fear not! Kurt and Tim are your fearless guides, ready to unravel the mysteries and implications of this fascinating exploration.

Nudge Cartography challenges the traditional view of academic research in behavioral science, urging practitioners to see research papers not merely as products but as essential marketing tools. Linnea Gandhi, in her insightful observations, emphasizes the transformative power of understanding the world through research and the need to use that understanding for positive change. Kurt and Tim navigate through the implications of this perspective, discussing the critical role of replication in research and the broader mission of comprehending the world to drive meaningful improvements.

Curious about the specifics of Nudge Cartography? Tune in to this episode as Kurt and Tim decode the project's significance, shedding light on regional variations in responses to behavioral interventions. Join the conversation and embark on a thought-provoking expedition that challenges the norms of behavioral science while providing valuable insights for researchers, practitioners, and curious minds alike.

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

(0:07) What is Nudge Cartography?

(3:55) Computational social science and mapmaking

(8:21) Mapping behavioral science with experiments

(15:33) The importance of generalizable knowledge in science

(21:29) Developing a nudge experiment database

(28:17) Using data to understand human behavior

(36:25) Closing thoughts, work processes, and musical preferences

(38:23) Grooving on Nudge Cartography

© 2024 Behavioral Grooves

Behavioral Grooves Patreon

Beyond Playing 20 Questions

Computational Social Science Lab at UPenn

Charlie Puth "Lipstick"

Classical Music "Best Of" Compilation

What is resilience, and how can we cultivate it in our lives? In this episode, delve into the fascinating world of resilience with an exclusive interview featuring Dr. Jonathan DePierro, author of the insightful book "Resilience." Join Kurt and Tim as Dr. DePierro defines resilience as more than just bouncing back; it's the ability to adapt, recover, and grow stronger in the face of life's challenges.

Discover the practical applications of resilience skills in navigating everyday stressors and gain a deeper understanding of the brain science behind building resilience through the power of social support. Dr. DePierro shares his experiences working with 9/11 responders and healthcare professionals during the challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic, offering valuable insights into how resilience can be a guiding force in times of crisis.

This episode isn't just about individual resilience – it extends to the organizational level, providing valuable takeaways for creating resilient communities. Learn how to foster a culture of adaptability and growth that can withstand the tests of time.

Tune in to gain a profound understanding of resilience and explore practical strategies for developing it in your own life. Dr. Jonathan DePierro's expertise and real-world experiences make this episode a must-listen for anyone seeking to navigate life's uncertainties with strength and resilience.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

(4:50) Introduction and Speed Round

(8:47) Resilience and Growth in the Face of Challenges

(12:55) Coping with Trauma

(17:23) Resilience, Optimism, and Social Support

(28:58) Building Resilience in Individuals and Organizations

(38:59) The Power of Music to Evoke Memories and Emotions

(45:01) Reframing Experiences and Building Resilience

(48:37) Grooving Session: Resilience and Problem-solving in Challenging times

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Resilience: The Science of Mastering Life's Greatest Challenges

Mount Sinai's Center for Stress, Resilience and Personal Growth

Gregorian Master of Chant Fix You

Hercules Film A Star is Born

Elton John Bennie and the Jets

Earth, Wind, Fire September

Paul Simon You Can Call Me Al

Kurt and Tim kick off the new year with communications expert Ben Guttmann in an episode on simplifying messages.

Ben's seemingly simple lessons pack a punch, offering a treasure trove of insights into mastering clear and concise communication for both personal and professional success. Join Kurt and Tim as they navigate through Ben's five key principles, uncovering the secrets to crafting communications that truly hit the mark. From prioritizing benefits to maintaining focus, ensuring salience, embracing empathy, and adopting minimalism, the trio explores how these principles can transform your messaging strategy.

Discover how large organizations often lose sight of what customers are looking for and gain valuable insights into Ben’s exploration of effective vs. ineffective slogans and taglines for businesses. Unpack the importance of employing the 10-100 most common words and learn how testing messages with an "enlightened idiot" can be a game-changer.

Whether you're a cog in a corporate machine or an individual seeking to sharpen your communication skills, this episode offers practical lessons on making your message resonate and connect. Kickstart the new year with a communication overhaul and be sure to share this episode with anyone in your life in need of a communication refresh. Don't miss out on the keys to killer communication – like, share, and tune in now!

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

(4:29) Introduction and speed round

(9:23) Simplifying communication in a busy world

(14:15) Bridging the gap between message creators and receivers

(23:43) Effective marketing strategies for big corporations

(34:41) The 1000 most common words for clear communication

(39:33) Communicating with aliens and desert island music

(45:59) Grooving Session: Communication and breaking through clutter

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Ben Guttman Simply Put: Why Clear Messages Win (and How to Design Them

Randall Munroe Thing Explainer

Harold Faltermeyer Top Gun Anthem

Arcade Fire Everything Now

Happy New Year from Kurt and Tim!

As we reflect on the past year, join us in revisiting some of the most impactful and insightful conversations from Behavioral Grooves in 2023. Grateful for the time and wisdom shared by our wonderful guests, we delve into key topics through the lens of behavioral science, aiming to provide you with valuable insights for both your professional and personal life.

From embracing uncertainty and cultivating growth mindsets to exploring the power of "magic words" and understanding your future self, this compilation covers a diverse range of subjects, including the psychology of scams and the challenges of parenting. Settle in, unwind, and take a moment to revisit the highlights of 2023 as we gear up for what the future holds (as much as we can anticipate!).

As always, thank you for listening to Behavioral Grooves. We appreciate your continued support and look forward to many more exciting developments in 2024!

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

(2:17) Yael Schonbrun, parenting, and fostering growth mindsets.

(8:48) Nathan and Susannah Furr, embracing uncertainty

and embracing possibility.

(13:23) Jonah Berger, the enchantment of "magic words" and the art of reframing language.

(18:54) Hal Hershfield, navigating your future self and shedding light blind spots

(23:06) Daniel Simons & Chris Chabris, the intricate world of scams, and maintaining hope. 

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Links

Monkey Business

Yael Schonbrun on Parenting

Nathan & Susannah Furr on Embracing Uncertainty

Jonah Berger and Magic Words

Hal Hershfield and Your Future Self

Daniel Simons & Christopher Chabris on Falling for Fraud

Continuing their pursuit of knowledge, Kurt and Tim explore the impactful books that have shaped their perspectives in 2023. In this episode, they unwrap the highlights of their literary journey, offering listeners a condensed version of why each book made a lasting impression and what readers can expect to gain from delving into these insightful pages.

Discovering one's groove is a nuanced journey, often fueled by new ideas, fresh perspectives, and a revisit to timeless concepts presented in innovative ways. In this annual wrap-up, Kurt and Tim dive into a diverse array of books that have enriched their intellectual tapestry, underscoring the influential role of literature in deepening their understanding of human behavior.

Covering a spectrum of topics, from uncertainty and effective communication to parenting and attention span, this year's Top 10 (or is it 11?) books offer a wide-ranging exploration. If you're searching for insights on a specific topic, chances are it's in one of these books!

Join in to uncover the standout Behavioral Science books of the year and gain insights that can enhance your understanding of human behavior. As always, thank you for being a part of the Behavioral Grooves community this year, and we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the Top 10!

Links

1. The Upside of Uncertainty: A Guide to Finding Possibility in the Unknown by Nathan and Susanna Furr
2. Writing for Busy Readers by Todd Rogers
3. Think Faster, Talk Smarter by Matt Abrahams 
4. Work, Parent, Thrive by Yael Schonbrun
5. Magic Words by Jonah Berger
6. Humanizing Rules by Christian Hunt
7. Anatomy of a Breakthrough: How to Get Unstuck When It Matters Most by Adam Alter
8. Nobody's Fool: Why We Get Taken In, and What We Can Do About It by Dan Simons and Chris Chabris
9. Your Future Self by Hal Hershfield
10. Attention Span: A Groundbreaking Way to Restore Balance, Happiness, and Productivity by Gloria Mark
11. The Perfection Trap: Embracing the Power of Good Enough by Thomas Curran

Have you or someone you know fallen victim to the detrimental effects of Jargon Monoxide? If so, there might be compensation waiting for you.

Joining Kurt and Tim in this episode, Huggy Rao delves into the critical aspects of organizational friction and the looming specter of burnout within workspaces. Huggy underscores the need for clear and transparent communication to escape the wearisome trap of workspeak, identified here as "jargon monoxide."

Tune in for a succinct and transparent conversation as Huggy dissects the challenges organizations encounter with an inherent bias towards addition, prioritizing the incorporation of new elements over the removal of unnecessary ones. He sheds light on the paradoxical scenario where leaders receive accolades for their additive contributions, leaving the significance of subtraction undervalued and misunderstood.

In the episode's conclusion, Kurt and Tim steer the discussion towards reframing friction as an avenue for improvement rather than a hindrance. They explore effective strategies for mitigating workplace friction and beyond, providing valuable insights for those grappling with end-of-the-year work fatigue. Don't miss out on this episode if you're seeking a fresh perspective on navigating workplace challenges.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

(6:12) Intro and Speed Round

(12:21) Good Friction vs Bad Friction

(17:38) Health Pyramids and Reframing the Workplace

(25:07) Rational vs Emotional

(30:25) Corporate time wasters

(37:04) Addition bias and Obliviousness

(45:10) Jargon Monoxide

(54:55) Grooving Session: Strategies for Burnout and Friction 

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

The Friction Project

Bandolini's Law 

Huggy Rao

Camarón De La Isla Como El Agua (Tangos)

Yo Yo Ma - Yo-Yo Ma - Bach: Cello Suite No. 1 in G Major, Prélude (Official Video)

Step into a captivating conversation as Tim and Kurt engage with Lisa Sun, the author of Gravitas. Lisa introduces the intriguing concept that each of us possesses superpowers—not the extraordinary kind, but those that ignite leadership, achievement, and self-belief. In this discussion, Lisa unveils the eight superpowers that make up confidence.

Moving beyond mere behavioral traits, Lisa emphasizes that confidence is fundamentally a mindset. Uncover the key to building self-confidence by recognizing strengths and celebrating past successes. While we may not possess telekinetic abilities, join Lisa, Kurt, and Tim as they explore how shifting our mindset, silencing our inner critic, and reframing challenges as opportunities can foster a stronger sense of self-worth.

This engaging episode offers insights into gender differences in confidence and the societal need for a redefined understanding of this crucial trait. During the Grooving Session, Kurt and Tim share practical strategies for altering perspectives on life's challenges and reframing emotions for better understanding and management.

Ready to unlock your mental superpowers? Join Lisa, Kurt, and Tim in this enlightening episode and embark on your journey to a more confident self.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

(2:37) Intro and Speed Round

(4:06) Creativity, self-confidence, and personal growth

(9:09) Ageism, self-doubt, and confidence

(12:15) Building self-confidence

(20:45) Inner child and inner critic

(25:58) Self-awareness, self-confidence, and overcoming fears

(35:48) Leadership qualities, gender, and confidence

(41:32) Workplace culture and gender bias

(53:11) Grooving Session: Confidence and self-expression

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

The Confidence Language Quiz

About Gravitas

Gravitas Women

The Gravitas Blend 

Kelly Shue and Women’s Promotions 

John Lennon “Imagine” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkgkThdzX-8 

The King and I “Shall We Dance” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgVPnWmUqd4 

Boys II Men “Motownphilly” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rciee-oQLoI 

Mariah Carey “We Belong Together” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0habxsuXW4g

While Tim finds himself confined to a plane, Kurt engages in a captivating one-on-one session with researcher Adam Mastroianni. Together, they delve into the intriguing world of behavioral science, aiming to unveil the concealed truths behind the notorious Big Dentist conspiracy urging everyone to floss.

However, the episode takes an unexpected turn as Kurt and Adam embark on a thought-provoking exploration of the past, present, and future of behavioral science. From a history tainted with fraudulent studies to a present that seems tepid in terms of groundbreaking discoveries, the duo contemplates what lies ahead. Do we dare to take risks, or is maintaining the status quo the safer route? Moreover, does the current academic system truly foster risk-taking?

Join us for a conversation that challenges assumptions, sparks innovation, and confronts the stigma surrounding the belief that flossing is the sole path to dental health. Tune in as we navigate the future of behavioral science, encouraging a fresh perspective on academia and the pursuit of knowledge.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

(4:09) Intro and Speed Round

(8:19) When should we stop talking?

(11:47) Does the fact that a study was found fraudulent matter?

(16:18) Are we out of groundbreaking discoveries?

(22:03) The limitations in current research and the need for a paradigm shift

(27:28) Shifting mindset in scientific research

(36:39) Flossing and the importance of context

(48:35) Research insights and desert island music

(52:19) Grooving session: Science, academia, and the importance of new ideas

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Experimental History (Blog) https://experimentalhistory.wordpress.com/

"Do Conversations End When People Want Them To?" https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0956797617749596

The Cochrane Collaboration Meta-analysis on Flossing https://www.cochrane.org/CD011146/ORAL_flossing-reduce-gingivitis-and-plaque

Rory Sutherland's Perspective on Choice https://www.ted.com/talks/rory_sutherland_life_lessons_from_an_ad_man/transcript

Baz Luhrmann "Everybody's Free to Wear Sunscreen" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJ7AzBIJoI

They Might Be Giants "Hot Dog!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoavHX75s_E

Talking Heads "Psycho Killer" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eauZzwt8Ci8

Tensions around the dinner table? Trouble finding common ground with friends and family? Renowned sociologist Michèle Lamont joins Tim and Kurt to unravel why the world seems more polarized than ever.

In this episode, Lamont delves into pressing societal issues, from tribalism to media polarization, offering expert insights and defining key terms with historical context. She explores generational shifts in perspectives on recognition and identity, asking how we can bridge divides between different worldviews.

Beyond analysis, Lamont inspires change, discussing the transformative power of reframing narratives to cultivate hope. Join us for a conversation challenging stereotypes, and promoting a society where everyone feels valued. Kurt and Tim end the episode with a  Grooving Session where they encourage us to strengthen the recognition of our shared humanity and invite listeners to be part of the change. Tune in for a fresh perspective on navigating a divided world.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

(03:22) Michèle Lamont intro and Speed Round

(08:08) Bridging generational divides

(20:49) Changing hearts and minds to address inequality

(26:36) Countering negative narratives

(36:59) Generational differences in identity and inclusion

(41:24) Race, identity, and mental health

(47:23) Grooving session: Overcoming polarization

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Peter Harvey research and article: How Schools Teach Children about their Social Station

Jean Twenge The Future of Generational Differences

National Domestic Workers Alliance

The Doors “Break on Through (To The Other Side)”

Patti Smith “Because the Night”

Leonard Cohen “Hallelujah”

Gordon Lightfoot “If You Could Read My Mind”

“Four Strong Winds”

Ever feel your attention… drifting? Want to get better at being present? Join Kurt and Tim as they delve into the world of shrinking attention spans alongside researcher Gloria Mark. Uncover the eye-opening revelations from Mark's research, highlighting a significant decrease in attention spans within just a few short years.

Explore the intricate ways in which the digital world and screen time impact our ability to focus, all while discovering the empowering idea that we possess agency over our attention. Gloria Mark shares invaluable tips for enhancing concentration, including insights into understanding your natural rhythms, setting goals, and connecting with nature.

In this attention-grabbing episode, witness how our brains and behavior are evolving in today's increasingly distracting world. Gain a deeper understanding of the intricate relationship between technology, attention spans, and individual agency. It's a journey into the evolving landscape of our minds and behaviors, offering practical tips to thrive in an era where distraction seems inevitable.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

(5:33) Intro and speed round

(8:31) Myths and facts about attention span

(12:54) Attention as a resource

(19:11) Attention span, flow, and media consumption

(31:22) Staying focused and avoiding distractions

(37:25) Attention, free will, and musical rhythm

(45:07) Desert Island music

(52:20) Grooving session - finding your groove through nature and productivity

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Gloria’s Book - https://www.harpercollins.com/products/attention-span-gloria-mark?variant=40346590117922 

Tim Urban: Inside the mind of a procrastinator - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arj7oStGLkU 

Wait But Why - https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrastinate.html

Nicholas Car "The Shallows" - https://www.nicholascarr.com/?page_id=16 

Barry Lazarowitz (drummer): https://www.allmusic.com/artist/barry-lazarowitz-mn0002291879/credits

Echo and the Bunnymen “People are Strange” (cover) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTviNc52igI 

Roger Daltry “Don’t Let the Sun Go Down on Me” (cover) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLQ6rpL_QLo 

Sarah Vaughan “Broken Hearted Melody” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOWJC-fVSAI 

Samara Joy “Guess Who I Saw Today” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X03lvK7qoco

Does everybody skim? Todd Rogers, co-author of “Writing for Busy Readers” joins Kurt and Tim to discuss just that. In this insightful episode, Todd shares principles and rules that will transform your written communication skills. Join the conversation as Todd challenges the traditional notions of taste and style in writing, emphasizing the power of concise and evidence-backed strategies for effective communication in the 21st century.

Discover the art of "less is more" as Todd shares practical steps and easy-to-follow techniques to overcome common challenges in conveying crucial information. Gain profound insights into the writer's responsibility to readers and navigate the dynamic landscape of social media communication. Todd's expertise provides a roadmap for achieving your communication goals with impact and precision.

During their grooving session Kurt and Tim exploring the importance of mapping information out before you write and offer helpful tips and tricks they’ve used to achieve success in their written communication over the years. Whether you're drafting corporate emails or engaging in casual conversations, this episode is a must-listen, providing practical guidance to elevate your communication skills and thrive in a world where brevity is key. Tune in and revolutionize the way you convey information in today's fast-paced environment!

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

(4:34) Welcome and Speed Round

(6:53) Does everybody skim?

(9:14) Writing for busy readers

(14:36) Writing effectively

(19:26) The new rules of writing

(29:20) Focusing on the reader’s perspective

(40:03) Writing for social media and user engagement

(46:47) Desert Island Music

(48:40) Grooving session: Tips for improving communication

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Writing for Busy Readers: https://writingforbusyreaders.com/ 

The Plain Writing Act of 2010: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-111publ274/pdf/PLAW-111publ274.pdf 

Space Between Words: The Origins of Silent Reading: https://books.google.ca/books/about/Space_Between_Words.html?id=w3vZaFoaa3EC

Beyonce (Renaissance) https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHFeMk_LSwG5VVTbOVIutGbA3PsGP0NPO&si=27uBQ3pOLw3WTUrP 

Taylor Swift (Teardrops on My Guitar) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKCek6_dB0M 

The Beatles (Come Together) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45cYwDMibGo 

Communication is a vital skill we all use, but do we truly understand its profound impact on our lives? Join Kurt and Tim as they engage in a captivating conversation with communication expert Matt Abrahams. Matt, an accomplished author, educator, and co-host of "Think Fast, Talk Smart," takes us on a journey into the heart of effective communication.

Discover the secrets to spontaneous speaking and hone your communication skills with practical insights and actionable steps. From connecting with your audience to creating the best toasts at parties, this episode is a masterclass in the art of communication. Matt reveals the magic of active listening and the importance of paraphrasing to strengthen your relationships.

Make anxiety your ally as you prepare for public speaking and various communication scenarios. With a wealth of global experience, Matt guides us through negotiation, persuasion, and even the role of creativity in communication. 

During their Grooving Session, Kurt and Tim talk about their own personal experiences with public speaking and communication, sharing anecdotes and advice from their own victories and defeats. Whether you’re delivering a keynote presentation or sharing a story with friends, this episode will offer you vital tips towards unlocking your full communication potential! 

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

(2:39) Welcome and speed round questions

(6:24) Matt’s Book and the fear of public speaking

(9:51) Overcoming the fear of public speaking and roadblocks

(15:05) Maximizing Mediocrity?

(18:50) Giving better toasts

(23:53) The M&M’s of Public Speaking

(30:24) Matt’s Podcast

(37:20) Chopin, Jazz, and off-the-cuff conversation

(42:43) Desert Island Music

(46:17) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on Public Speaking

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Matt Abrahams: https://mattabrahams.com/ 

Think Faster, Talk Smarter: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Think-Faster-Talk-Smarter/Matt-Abrahams/9781668010303 

Think Fast, Talk Smart: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/think-fast-talk-smart-communication-techniques/id1494989268 

Matt Abrahams and Alia Crum: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/mindset-matters-how-embrace-benefits-stress 

Speaking Up Without Freaking Out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIXvKKEQQJo 

Rodrigo y Gabriela "Hanuman": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENBX_v1Po1Y 

Lynyrd Skynyrd "Free Bird": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LwcvjNJTuM 

ACDC "Thunderstruck": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2AC41dglnM 

We all know we need a good night’s sleep but sleep researcher, David Creswell PhD has studied how our performance is actually affected by sleep. He has even found a predictive correlation between student’s college GPA scores and their sleep duration. 

David Creswell is a professor of psychology at Carnegie Mellon University and has published numerous studies on mindfulness-based interventions and their impact on well-being. He is a prominent researcher specializing in health psychology, mindfulness meditation, and stress management. 

Earlier this year David co-authored a paper in Psychological and Cognitive Sciences called, “Nightly sleep duration predicts grade point average in the first year of college” which caught our attention. The research measures performance metrics among students who wore Fitbits while sleeping. The findings suggest getting less than 6 hours of sleep may be a threshold where sleep shifts from helpful to harmful. 

To wrap up the conversation, hosts Kurt and Tim discuss the topic of sleep in their Grooving Session. They discuss their very different sleep patterns and what Kurt has done to help improve his insomnia.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

(4:22) Welcome and speed round questions.

(5:50) David’s research on sleep.

(12:14) What about daytime napping?

(15:42) The difference between sleeping more or less than 6 hours per night.

(17:16) Sleep duration and academic success in college students.

(22:16) How to avoid false positives in research.

(30:09) Does David listen to music while he sleeps?

(33:34) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on sleep.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Dr David Creswell PhD: https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/psychology/directory/core-training-faculty/creswell-david.html 

The Health and Human Performance Lab: https://www.healthandhumanperformancelab.com/ 

Equa App: https://equahealth.io/about-us/ 

Creswell, et. al. (Jan 2023), “Nightly sleep duration predicts grade point average in the first year of college” Psychological and Cognitive Sciences: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2209123120 

Ruchir Sera - Episode 26, Resonea app and the Behavioral Effects of Sleep: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/ruchir-sehra-on-the-behavioral-effects-of-sleep/

American Academy of Sleep Medicine: https://aasm.org/ 

Taylor Swift “Anti-Hero”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1kbLwvqugk 

Don Ho “Tiny Bubbles”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muEFD_odvUg 

The Beatles “Yer Blues” from The White Album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeFwaWFTGYU

Connect behavioral science theory and research to practical applications. Connor Joyce founded the Applied Behavioral Science Association and he shares his perspectives on different behavioral science roles.

This podcast episode features Connor Joyce discussing his career journey and involvement with the Applied Behavioral Science Association (ABSA). Connor began his career as a human capital analyst at Deloitte, where he was first exposed to behavioral science. He then earned a Master's degree in behavioral science from the University of Pennsylvania.

After graduating, Connor struggled to find career paths for applied behavioral scientists. He started the Behavioral Insights Professional Society to address this issue and connect resources. While it had initial success, Connor realized he lacked strategic experience. He then partnered with the Behavioral Science & Policy Association and others to form Project Nexus, which eventually became ABSA.

ABSA aims to improve the world by promoting education and collaboration across expertise levels in behavioral science. Connor described two main categories - experts who specialize in behavioral science applications, and novices/users who incorporate behavioral science into other roles like design or marketing. ABSA provides resources like standards and job descriptions to support both groups.

The conversation also explores similarities and differences between behavioral science, user experience design, data science, and marketing insights. Connor noted blurring lines between these fields in technology companies, where they are all forms of applied research. Finally, Connor discusses how generative AI could democratize user research by empowering more people to conduct basic studies.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

(3:47) Welcome and speed round questions.

(9:21) What exactly is behavioral science?

(15:45) Creating a professional society for behavioral insights.

(25:09) Behavioral science, user design, and data science. 

(33:25) Connor’s musical preferences.

(40:08) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Connor Joyce: https://www.connectconnor.com/ 

Applied Behavioral Science Association (ABSA): https://www.behavioralscience.org/ 

Behavioral Design Hub: https://medium.com/behavior-design-hub/behavioral-science-as-a-specialization-ea64aeb015f7 

IIEX North America: https://events.greenbook.org/iiex-north-america 

GAABS: https://gaabs.org/ 

Diversifi: https://www.diversifiglobal.com/ 

Alesso “Words”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIJEOEZdLzE 

Tiesto “Lay Low”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfWmWlW2PvM 

What life habits keep our brain healthy? How does our mind respond to trauma? And why does the way we talk about suicide and mental health make such a difference to those who are struggling? We discuss all these topics with neuroscience researcher Dr Daniel Almeida.

World Mental Health Day has recently shed a spotlight on our psychological wellbeing. So we decided to republish the sound mental health advice we learnt from our guest Dr Daniel Almeida from episode 255 in October 2021.

Daniel has been named one of Forbes 30 under 30 in science. His incredible work as a neuroscience researcher in the Douglas Research Centre at McGill University in Montreal, Canada, involves psychological autopsies to understand the molecular impacts of severe childhood abuse on the brains of individuals who died by suicide.

As you can imagine, this episode is full of difficult yet important topics. But what struck us most about Daniel was how upbeat and positive he is about his work and the difference it’s making to people’s lives. Daniel kindly shares his top 5 healthy brain habits that we can all adopt to improve our mental wellbeing. 

If you, or someone you know needs help with their mental health, please use one of the resources in the links below. 

Suicide Prevention Lifeline (US):https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/

American Foundation for Suicide Prevention: https://afsp.org/suicide-prevention-resources

Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration: National Helpline (US): 1-800-662-HELP (4357). SAMHSA’s National Helpline is a free, confidential, 24/7, 365-day-a-year treatment referral and information service (in English and Spanish) for individuals and families facing mental and/or substance use disorders. https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline 

The Canada Suicide Prevention Service: https://www.crisisservicescanada.ca/en/

Samaritans (UK): https://www.samaritans.org/ 

United for Global Mental Health (List of support networks around the world): https://unitedgmh.org/mental-health-support 

National Institute of Mental Health: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/suicide-prevention

Living Works (US): https://bit.ly/3oKgsaS 

Mental Health First Aid Canada: https://mhfa.ca/

(6:29) Speed round.

(10:14) Does talking about suicide help?

(14:15) Why it’s very important to talk about “dying by suicide” instead of “committing suicide”.

(16:17) About Daniel’s work as a neuroscientist.

(17:47) What are the links between childhood trauma and suicide?

(25:16) What age are children most sensitive to the effects of trauma?

(31:19) How the type of trauma experienced by a child matters.

(33:36) How resilience is more like a sword than a shield.

(35:29) What are the 5 best brain health habits?

(41:57) What is a brain bank and how are psychological autopsies used?

(44:30) What music isn’t noise pollution for Daniel?

(46:24) Music and the brain.

(48:13) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim; how to apply Daniel’s work to your life.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

World Mental Health Day: https://www.who.int/campaigns/world-mental-health-day 

Leading Human™ Workbook and Playbook: https://www.behavioralgrooves-store.com/products/copy-of-the-leading-human-playbook-workbook-package

Leading Human™, Free Whitepaper Download: https://www.behavioralgrooves-store.com/collections/leading-human/products/human-centered-workplace-checklist

Episode 220: How Do You Become Influential? Jon Levy Reveals His Surprising Secrets: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-be-influential-jon-levy/

Dr Brenda Mildner – Mother of Psychological worked on bilateral hypocantim removal: https://www.mcgill.ca/neuro/about/brenda-milner

Donald Hebb: https://can-acn.org/donald-olding-hebb/#:~:text=Donald%20Hebb%20(1904%2D1985),which%20was%20published%20in%201949. 

“Molecular impacts of childhood abuse on the human brain”  Ibrahim, P.; Almeida, D.; Nagy, C.; Turecki, G. (2021): https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352289521000515?via%3Dihub 

“A Slice of the Suicidal Brain: What Have Postmortem Molecular Studies Taught Us?” Almeida, D. and Turecki, G. (2016): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27671915/ 

“What Happened to You?: Conversations on Trauma, Resilience, and Healing”, by Oprah Winfrey and Bruce Perry: https://amzn.to/3lF7EQ7 

Brain structure of dancers and musicians https://www.falishakarpati.com/bio

Support Behavioral Grooves by donating on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves  

Gladys Knight & The Pips “Midnight Train to Georgia”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0F9lh8TiSM&ab_channel=GladysKnightTPVEVO 

Whitney Houston “I Will Always Love You”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JWTaaS7LdU 

The Supremes “Where Did Our Love Go”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTBmgAOO0Nw 

Stevie Wonder “As”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYQfWJNWe3I 

Marconi Union - Weightless Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYnA9wWFHLI&t=6831s

Why is work so difficult for so many of us? Why are we not connected to the organization in ways to help us advance our careers and garner the best assignments?

Dr. Michelle P. King is a researcher and author who answers these questions and more. She joined us to discuss strategies from her book, “How Work Works: The Subtle Science of Getting Ahead Without Losing Yourself.” 

Michelle is a globally recognized expert on inequality and organizational culture. Based on over a decade’s worth of research, She believes that we need to learn how workplaces work, so we can make them work for everyone. 

She is the host of a popular podcast called The Fix. “How Work Works: The Subtle Science of Getting Ahead Without Losing Yourself,” is her second book and will be released internationally on October 10, 2023.

Most importantly, in this episode, we talk about the importance of self-awareness, learning how to read the air, and the creation of informal networks to positively influence your career. We also discuss ways to find a sense of belonging and inclusion that can lead to greater satisfaction at work and a better career. 

And in our grooving session, we emphasize how increasing your self-awareness can be beneficial to you at any time during your career. During our music discussion, we cover the importance of Leonard Cohen’s mastery of lyrics as a poet and the wealth of great music that comes from the jazz tradition. 

(8:39) Career advancement and informal networking in the workplace. 

(11:19) Informal networks at work and their impact on job placement. 

(17:37) Workplace dynamics and collaboration. 

(24:18) Self-awareness and informal communication in the workplace. 

(27:17) Self-awareness, ambiguity, and workplace performance. 

(33:22) Workplace communication and social skills. 

(36:42) Workplace belonging, diversity, and inclusion. 

(42:22) Workplace meaning and career advancement. 

(47:17) Setting sails for life and work.

(51:58) Reading the air in workplace communication. 

(1:00:40) The potential consequences of asking for things. 

(1:01:56) Emotional intelligence in the workplace. 

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Leonard Cohen “Bird on A Wire”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGvwvxA83Cs 

Oscar Peterson (1976) improvisational piano: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBP3Il85bYA 

“Do what you love and you’ll never work a day in your life.” Are you tired of that ditty? We are. How are you supposed to know what you love if we don’t 100% know who we are?

“Know thyself” is a maxim that has been central to Western civilization for the last 2500 years. It has been pervasive in philosophy over the ages and more recently in psychology. Who are we? Who am I? These questions blend nicely with understanding why we do what we do, a foundational question in behavioral science. And it is with this curiosity that cohosts Kurt Nelson, PhD and Tim Houlihan delve into the mysteries of who we think we are.

More importantly, this episode is interested in honest self-discovery: the answer to the question: who am I? To help you answer that, we humbly submit a series of questions and reflections for your consideration, for the purpose of having a clearer sense of who I am. (At least at the moment.)

We use three sets of reflections for you to consider:

1. Identify where in your life you find energy, joy, and satisfaction. These questions and reflections allow us to target the ideals and desires we have in our lives. These are enhancers.
2. Identify what aspects of our lives are not going the way we want them to. These questions help us clarify what is not working for us. These are detractors.
3. Identify what requirements we have to live in this world. In others, what obligations, relationships, and financial requirements, among other things, are commitments we must live by? These are necessities. 

We also talk about the nature of memories, the present moment, and ways our future aspirations influence who we are. We even discuss Dr. Bryan Lowery’s idea that who we are is largely influenced by the people around us. (Talk about mind-bending!)

By reflecting on these questions and our general discussion, we hope that Groovers can discover a clearer picture of who you are and that these reflections will lead you to a more perfect version of knowing thyself, as Socrates might say.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves, LLC

Behavioral Grooves Website: www.behavioralgrooves.com 

Ethan Hawke TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/ethan_hawke_give_yourself_permission_to_be_creative?language=en 

Bhagavad Gita: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita 

Hal Hershfield Episode 369: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/your-future-self-hal-hershfield/ 

Brené Brown: https://brenebrown.com/ 

Brian Lowery Episode 312: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/meaning-in-life-brian-lowery/ 

Self-Serving Bias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias 

Fundamental Attribution Error: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error 

Motivated Reasoning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivated_reasoning 

Confirmation Bias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias 

Intention-Action Gap: https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/psychology/intention-action-gap 

Know Thyself Questions: 

Finding Energy and Satisfaction Questions (Enhancers: What You Love To Do)

• What activities or experiences make me feel the most fulfilled and content? 
• When do I feel the most authentic and genuine? 
• What aspects of life are non-negotiable for me?  
• What principles am I unwilling to compromise? 
• What kind of person do I want to be remembered? 
• What causes or issues do I feel most passionate about? 
• What qualities do I admire most in others? 
• What decisions or situations have made me feel proud or satisfied with myself? 
• What kind of person do I want to be remembered as?  

Avoiding Negative Emotion Questions (Detractors: What You Hate To Do)

• What has been my lowest point in the past 5 years? 
• What situations or people drain my energy and leave me feeling exhausted? 
• What triggers my negative emotions such as anger, sadness, or anxiety? 
• Where do I feel regret for things I’ve done or for things I haven’t done?  
• What do I stress over the most?  
• What negative self-talk or inner critic do I struggle with? 
• What are some common sources of conflict or tension in my relationships? 
• What do I fear?   
• What decisions or situations have made me feel guilty or uncomfortable? 

Living in this World Questions (Necessities: What You Have To Do)

• Am I honoring your relationship?
• Do I have what I need to provide for my basic necessities?  
• Where do I compromise to ensure that I have positive relationships?  
• Am I being responsible?
• Am I honoring my commitments to others, to my job, and to other aspects of my life?  
• What are the pressures that the world places upon me? 

Your responses and reflections should be as honest and truthful as possible. Try your best to not be tainted by your biases. A clearer picture will help you identify the key areas that drive you. 

Examine your self through the lens of what you love to do, what you hate to do, and what you have to do.   

Write out a 7-word value statement that defines who you are at the core.   

(0:07) Understanding “Know Thyself” through history. 

(5:00) Personal growth throughout history. 

(11:28) Understanding one's true identity. 

(19:33) Understanding one's biases. 

(25:03) Self-awareness and personal growth. 

(31:50) Finding your groove. 

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves, LLC

Conscientiousness, perseverance and meticulousness are all words associated with perfectionism. But perfectionism comes from a deeper sense of inadequacy, of not feeling good enough. Constantly striving to prove yourself leads to anxiety, depression and burnout. Researcher Thomas Curran describes perfectionism in detail, why it’s getting worse and what we can do about it.

Thomas Curran is a professor of psychology and behavioral science at the esteemed London School of Economics and author of The Perfection Trap: Embracing the Power of Good Enough, just released on August 8, 2023. In the book he explores the roots of perfectionism in wider society and explains how it affects our mental health and productivity.

Perfectionism has risen sharply since the mid-2000s, which Thomas attributes to societal pressures like social media, smartphones, economic instability, and an emphasis on educational and career achievement. Collectively, these factors have led to increased feelings of not measuring up. Thomas argues that perfectionism is as much a cultural issue as a personal one, influenced by an economic model that demands constant growth and consumption.

(5:18) Welcome to Thomas Curran.

(7:30) What exactly is perfectionism?

(9:46) How growing the economy feeds into perfectionism.

(13:38) The hustle of “successful” people and why we need to look beyond it.

(17:47) How perfectionism can sabotage your own success.

(21:10) What parents can do to help minimize perfectionism in their children.

(24:05) How we can be encumbered with a growth mindset.

(26:01) The 3 types of perfectionism.

(27:50) Does perfectionism self correct with age?

(29:58) Why perfectionism has risen since 2007.

(38:56) How society could change to minimize perfectionism. 

(47:52) What music would Thomas take to a desert island?

(51:54) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on perfectionism. 

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

The Perfection Trap: Embracing the Power of Good Enough: https://amzn.to/3RtWGP5 

Thomas Curran: https://www.thomascurran.co.uk/ 

Episode 301, How To Fix Burnout (Hint: It Isn’t Another Yoga Session) with Jennifer Moss: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-fix-burnout-jennifer-moss/ 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 

Joy Division “Love will tear us apart”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuuObGsB0No 

Bruno Mars “That’s what I like”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMivT7MJ41M

Doing, doing, doing. We can get stuck in a perpetual state of busyness to get things done. But being in a chronic “performance zone” can lead to stagnation over time. The “learning zone”, however, is when we take a step back to reflect on our experiences and look for ways to improve. That’s where a growth mindset comes in - actually believing that we can get better.

“In order to engage in learning, we need to believe that we can improve, we also need to understand how to improve and we need to have a reason or reason that we care to put in the effort to improve.” ~ Eduardo Briceño, Episode 374

Eduardo Briceño is a global keynote speaker, facilitator, and author who guides many of the world’s leading companies in developing cultures of learning and high performance. His TED Talks have been viewed over 9 million times. Alongside Carol Dweck, the leading growth mindset researcher, Eduardo has founded Mindset Works, an organization dedicated to fostering lifelong learning. 

On this episode of Behavioral Grooves, hosts Kurt and Tim talk to Eduardo about his new book “The Performance Paradox: Turning the Power of Mindset into Action” which is a practical guide on how to spend more of your time in the learning zone, instead of just the performance zone.

Eduardo provides tips for leaders to create a culture of learning, such as framing core values, identifying habits and systems to support both performance and learning, and modeling learning behaviors visibly.

To Tim’s delight, the conversation with Eduardo uses musical examples from Beyoncé and Dave Grohl to highlight the importance of practice and reflection. Overall, the discussion provides insights on overcoming barriers to a learning mindset and finding a balance between performance and growth in the workplace.

(4:09) Welcome and speed round questions.

(7:16) If we focus only on performance, our performance suffers. 

(10:19) How to tell if you’re in the learning zone or performance zone.

(20:14) How can leaders create a learning culture in the workplace?

(24:04) The performance zone isn’t necessarily a bad place to be.

(25:44) What can Beyoncé teach us about the learning zone?

(27:07) How can we get better at reflecting on our own performance?

(31:02) Overcoming resistance to learning at work.

(33:49) What we can learn from Dave Grohl’s pandemic drum battle.

(38:07) Be deliberate about improvement, not just working harder.

(41:47) What musical artists would  Eduardo Briceño take to a desert island?

(43:38) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on the learning zone.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Eduardo Briceño’s book, “The Performance Paradox: Turning the Power of Mindset into Action”: https://amzn.to/487Ikd8 

Eduardo Briceño: https://briceno.com/ 

Carol Dweck, Mindset: The New Psychology of Success: https://amzn.to/468cVpg 

Anders Ericsson, “The Making of an Expert”: https://hbr.org/2007/07/the-making-of-an-expert 

Gordon McKenzie's “Orbiting the Giant Hairball: A Corporate Fool's Guide to Surviving with Grace’: https://amzn.to/44VMi5I 

Satya Nadella's efforts to shift Microsoft's culture to focus more on learning when he became CEO: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/books/features/how-microsoft-ceo-satya-nadella-transformed-one-of-the-worlds-great-businesses/articleshow/94221616.cms 

Dave Grohl's vs Nandi Bushell drum battle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZBQW2gE0Ew 

Introduction to Experiential Learning, John Dewey: https://learning.northeastern.edu/introduction-to-experiential-learning/ 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 

The Beatles “Here, There and Everywhere”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FusIKjztap8 

Brian Eno “Garden of Stars”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlJDUcdUz8c

Volunteering improves psychological well-being. Team Rubicon has researched this positive effect, not just on the communities it serves, but also on the well-being of its 170,000 volunteers. The organization applies military expertise and speed to provide fast response and social support to those who have suffered a disaster. We learn from David Burke and Patti Norberg about the many benefits they have found with volunteering.

David Burke is the Chief Program Officer at Team Rubicon, an organization that was founded by US armed forces veterans in 2010 with the purpose of voluntarily joining together to work on missions in the aid of regular citizens who are suffering because of natural disasters. Patti Norberg PhD is a Professor of Marketing at Quinnipiac University in Connecticut, and also a good friend of Tim Houlihan.

Team Rubicon is a veteran led humanitarian organization that serves people before, during and after disasters and crises. It’s a movement of thousands of people that work domestically and internationally from mitigating the effects of fires, floods and natural disasters. They are instrumental in missions to rebuild people's homes, surge medical capacity and provide clean water. 

From the offset, the purpose of Team Rubicon was not just to help disaster survivors, but also to support veterans' well-being after leaving the military. And Team Rubicon goes one step further by actually researching the effects on well-being and mental health. Kurt and Tim discuss the findings from this research and how it is shaping the ongoing work of Team Rubicon.

(4:37) Welcome and speed round questions.

(6:56) What is Team Rubicon?

(8:53) How does a military background help Team Rubicon volunteers?

(11:01) What makes Team Rubicon different from other volunteer organizations?

(18:00) How Team Rubicon takes care of the mental health of its volunteers.

(21:33) The social connection that comes from volunteering.

(28:36) How volunteering helps make you feel significant.

(31:47) The next studies on psychological well-being with Team Rubicon.

(35:19) What’s next for Team Rubicon?

(39:31) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on volunteering.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Team Rubicon: https://teamrubiconusa.org/ 

“Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation” by Dr Vivek Murthy, U.S. Surgeon General: https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf 

Carol Ryff’s, Psychological Well-Being Scales: https://ppc.sas.upenn.edu/resources/questionnaires-researchers/psychological-well-being-scales#:~:text=WHAT%20THE%20QUESTIONNAIRE%20MEASURES,in%20life%2C%20self%2Dacceptance. 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 

We all want to feel significant. This drive for significance ultimately fuels our cognition, emotions, and actions. Distinguished psychologist Arie Kruglanski discusses motivation, cognition, goal systems, radicalization, and his recent work on the ubiquitous quest for significance.

Dr. Arie W. Kruglanski PhD is a Distinguished Professor of Psychology at the University of Maryland. He directs a lab that studies human motivation as it affects thinking, feeling, and behavior.  He is one of the leading voices in social psychology, being instrumental in understanding the motivation of uncertainty, goals,  radicalization and most recently on our quest for significance. Arie has over 500 research papers and articles and has won numerous awards for his work.

Arie explains to us that all human behavior is propelled by motivation, with motivation being the driving force behind cognition, emotions, and actions. He discusses how goals are represented cognitively but serve motivational needs. The conversation also touches on how intrinsic and extrinsic motivation are not truly distinct, with all motivation coming from within but having different relationships to means and ends. 

A fascinating part of Arie’s work is his research on radicalization. Having devised The 3 N Model of Radicalization, he expertly illustrates how our quest for significance can be misdirected into violent or suicidal behavior. But there is optimism in addressing radicalization through education and alternative significance pathways.

(4:34) Welcome to Arie and speed round questions.

(6:06) The underlying thread through all of Arie’s work.

(12:21) Why people seek significance through violence.

(15:51) How can individuals be radicalized to become suicide bombers?

(19:40) The difference between basic needs and psychological needs.

(25:30) All our goals go back to addressing our basic needs.

(27:17) Why money is tied to significance (sometimes).

(30:45) The means to the end is more important than the goal.

(32:26) So does extrinsic motivation even exist?

(34:13) The dichotomy between motivation and cognition.

(37:23) The false assumption that attitudes predict behavior.

(41:45) The 3 N Model of Radicalization.

(45:08) How the internet has facilitated radicalization.

(49:04) So how can people attain significance through positive means.

(51:05) What music would Arie take to a desert island?

(55:04) Grooving Session on the quest for significance.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Arie Kruglanski: https://www.kruglanskiarie.com/ 

Arie Kruglanski’s books:

• “Uncertain: How to Turn Your Biggest Fear into Your Greatest Power”: https://amzn.to/3EuPxGl 
• “The Three Pillars of Radicalization: Needs, Narratives, and Networks”: https://amzn.to/3Ep0lGc 
• “The Radical's Journey: How German Neo-Nazis Voyaged to the Edge and Back”: https://amzn.to/3L5W9i8 

Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs: https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html 

Susan T. Fiske, “Social Beings: Core Motives in Social Psychology”: https://amzn.to/3EuQlLn 

Sir Angus Deaton’s book, “Deaths of Despair and the Future of Capitalism”: https://amzn.to/3sDXV3C 

Episode 276, How To Stay Motivated So You Exceed Your Goals | Ayelet Fishbach PhD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/motivation-to-exceed-your-goals/ 

Scott Atran, “Talking to the Enemy: Violent Extremism, Sacred Values, and What It Means to Be Human”: https://amzn.to/3Pn5VPs 

Baumeister, R. F., Wotman, S. R., & Stillwell, A. M. (1993). Unrequited love: On heartbreak, anger, guilt, scriptlessness, and humiliation. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology: https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.64.3.377

Dumb and Dumber clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA 

Steven Pinker, “The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined”: https://amzn.to/47Wl0ir 

Episode 287, “Why Talking To Strangers Is Actually Good For Your Wellbeing | Nick Epley”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/talking-to-strangers/ 

Robert Sapolsky, “Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst”: https://amzn.to/3L6lvN3 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 

Bach “Air on G String”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMkmQlfOJDk 

Miles Davis “So What”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqNTltOGh5c

This podcast will give you the tools and techniques to foster a learning culture in your organization. Whether you work at a junior level or are an executive, Sarah’s guidelines can equip you to utilize leadership, AI, context and habit formation to incorporate learning into your routine.

Learning is like exercise. Once you develop a healthy habit, you need to keep going! But how do you foster a learning culture in your organization? In this interview, Sarah joins Kurt Nelson and Tim Houlihan to talk about her book "Learning Habits Drive a Learning Culture to Improve Employee and Business Performance". Sarah discusses how organizations can establish a learning culture by focusing on learning habits. 

Based around the famous habit cycle of cue, routine and reward, Sarah adds in the important 4th element of context. Leaning on the excellent work of Wendy Wood, Sarah emphasizes the importance of creating an environment in which your desired habits are supported as a much more effective tool than relying on willpower alone.

Learning in an organization is driven by leadership. By modeling learning behaviors and setting the expectations for a learning culture, leaders can elevate the productivity of their team. She discusses how team meetings, one-on-one conversations and social media can all be leveraged to encourage learning habits. But one thing particularly stands out about Sarah’s work is that she incorporates concepts from behavioral science like social proof, cues and rewards that can help make learning automatic and habitual. 

If you want to keep learning from people like Sarah Nicholl on Behavioral Grooves Podcast, please support our work by contributing on Patreon. Thank you to all our listeners who already do.

(2:48) Welcome and speed round questions.

(6:16) Learning habits that contribute most to healthy organizations.

(9:03) Using learning to change behavior.

(11:19) How to incorporate learning into the team meeting.

(13:24) Context matters!

(15:16) How do you create a learning culture?

(19:01) What is the LEARN model?

(22:42) The impact of generative AI on learning.

(27:42) The value of social proof for learning.

(31:07) How behavioral science plays a part in learning.

(33:24) What Sarah learnt herself from writing the book.

(34:21) What music would Sarah take to a desert island?

(36:16) Grooving Session on learning.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Sarah Nicholl’s book, "Learning Habits: Drive a Learning Culture to Improve Employee and Business Performance": https://amzn.to/3E8oyQX

Meryl Streep: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meryl_Streep

The Laundromat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Laundromat_(2019_film)

BJ Fogg, "Tiny Habits: The Small Changes That Change Everything": https://amzn.to/3D4hiFi 

Wendy Wood, "Good Habits, Bad Habits: The Science of Making Positive Changes That Stick": https://amzn.to/3NHv31p  

Episode 31, Leaving the Matrix: Annie Duke and Insights into how you can improve your thinking!: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/leaving-the-matrix-annie-duke-and-insights-into-how-you-can-improve-your-thinking/ 

MINDSPACE Framework: https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/neuroscience/mindspace-framework#:~:text=MINDSPACE%3A%20A%20mnemonic%20for%20the,affect%2C%20commitments%2C%20and%20ego. 

Episode 41, From MINDSPACE to EAST with Michael Hallsworth: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/michael-hallsworth-from-mindspace-to-east/

Daniel Kahneman “Thinking Fast and Slow”: https://amzn.to/3NDph0V 

James Clear, "Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones": https://amzn.to/3O2HAhd 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 

Shania Twain “That Don’t Impress Me Much”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFLXayD6e8 

James Taylor “You’ve Got A Friend”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jgh6h6eYLk 

Humans have limited information processing abilities and cannot possibly evaluate all possible options when making a decision. However, describing people merely as irrational paints an inaccurate picture. There can be benefits to the biases we hold. 

Author of Optimally Irrational: The Good Reasons We Behave the Way We Do Lionel Page PhD, joins Kurt Nelson and Tim Houlihan on Behavioral Grooves Podcast to talk about his book. Lionel is a French-born economist who is currently working as the Director of the Behavioural and Economic Science Cluster at the University of Queensland in Australia. 

Among the topics Lionel discusses is the hedonic treadmill and how happiness is always just ahead of us. Our subjective satisfaction system is designed to keep us motivated by focusing on future goals. However, once we achieve those goals, we move on to the next.

Anticipated utility and loss aversion become a powerful motivational combination. Our motivations for decisions are complex. But intentionality can help make up for some of the inconsistencies in our decision making.

(1:51) Speed round questions.

(3:13) Is overconfidence beneficial or not beneficial?

(6:06) What is rational and irrational behavior?

(11:34) Why it is so important to define a field of work.

(14:09) Why is it so difficult for us to ask for what we want?

(17:31) Completeness helps us to find missing points.

(22:38) Happiness is actually connected to loss aversion.

(32:37) The benefits of anticipated utility.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Lionel Page PhD: https://economics.uq.edu.au/profile/9755/lionel-page 

Lionel’s book, “Optimally Irrational: The Good Reasons We Behave the Way We Do”: https://amzn.to/46RoYIH

Episode 333, How Game Theory Can Be Used To Explain Human Behavior | Erez Yoeli: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/game-theory-to-explain-behavior/ 

 Episode 171, Self Control, Belonging, and Why Your Most Dedicated Employees Are the Ones To Watch Out For with Roy Baumeister: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/self-control-belonging-and-why-your-most-dedicated-employees-are-the-ones-to-watch-out-for-with-roy-baumeister/ 

Prospect theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospect_theory 

Episode 276, How To Stay Motivated So You Exceed Your Goals | Ayelet Fishbach PhD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/motivation-to-exceed-your-goals/ 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 

How can we make better choices today to benefit our future selves? Hal Hershfield outlines strategies like visualizing your future self, writing letters, making commitments, and recognizing that your preferences will change over time.

Hal is a Professor of Marketing, Behavioral Decision Making, and Psychology at UCLA’s Anderson School of Management and holds the UCLA Anderson Board of Advisors Term Chair in Management. His research, which sits at the intersection of psychology and economics, examines the ways we can improve our long-term decisions. He joins us on this episode to discuss his new book, "Your Future Self: How to Make Tomorrow Better Today".

It was so tempting to make this conversation with Hal really philosophical. Is our future self the same person as today, or more like a stranger? Do memories make us who we are? How can we bridge the existential gap between our future self and current self?

But listeners will be glad to know that Kurt and Tim also delve into the practical aspects of Hal’s research, touching on how we can help ourselves plan for the future. The biggest take away though is that Hal emphasizes the need to make sacrifices feel psychologically easier today in order to benefit our future selves.

He outlines three "time travel mistakes" we frequently make: missing our flight represents getting stuck in the present, poor trip planning represents thinking about the future but not deeply, and packing the wrong clothes represents unfairly projecting our present emotions onto our future selves.

Want your future self to still be able to listen to Behavioral Grooves Podcasts? Invest in the show’s future by making a small donation on Patreon so we can keep bringing you insightful conversations like this one. Thank you to all our listeners to help make the show!

(2:54) Welcome and speed round questions.

(7:14) Is our future self actually the same person?

(11:18) Do memories make us who we are?

(15:20) Common time travel mistakes.

(22:36) Why you should write a letter to your future self.

(27:51) What do you need to do today to make tomorrow better?

(34:49) Does looking back on your regrets help you look forward.

(38:42) Hal’s future musical tastes.

(44:10) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on our future selves.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Hal Hershfield’s book “Your Future Self: How to Make Tomorrow Better Today”: https://amzn.to/3E2acSh 

Wilson, T. D., & Gilbert, D. T. (2003) “Affective Forecasting”: https://dtg.sites.fas.harvard.edu/Wilson%20&%20Gilbert%20%28Advances%29.pdf 

John Locke: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke 

Ship of Theseus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

Strohminger N, Nichols S. (2014) “The essential moral self”: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24503450/ 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 

The National “Sea Of Love”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIWmRbHDhGw 

Guster “Satellite”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAkvb2Rhces 

Cat Stevens “Father & Son”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6zaCV4niKk 

The Beatles “Help”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q_ZzBGPdqE 

Belle and Sebastian “I want the world to stop”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjW3tZhdnyw

The "cult of never enough" encourages the belief that more money, possessions and achievements will make us happy. But Manisha Thakor has learnt through personal experience that emotional wealth is more important than financial wealth. Listen to learn how to redefine your success. 

Manisha Thakor is the author of the book Money Zen: Escape the Cult of Never Enough and Reclaim Your Life. In this episode of Behavioral Grooves, she discusses with Kurt and Tim how she chased the American dream of financial success for 30 years before realizing it had become a nightmare. She became a workaholic and lost sight of what truly brings happiness. 

Manisha talks about how the "cult of never enough" encourages the belief that more money, possessions and achievements will make us happy. However, she realized that emotional wealth is more important than financial wealth. She discusses the importance of financial health over wealth, which includes having enough to meet your needs without stress.

How does society measure success in terms of money, power and productivity rather than by character and contribution? Manisha talks about the Buddhist concept of the "hungry ghost" which represents our insatiable desires. She argues that the answer is often "less" - shedding commitments, possessions and being still in nature. 

Listen to find out how to redefine success beyond financial wealth and move towards a balance of financial health and emotional wealth.

If you’d like to support the work of Behavioral Grooves, you can become a Behavioral Grooves Patreon member.

(3:45) Welcome and speed round questions.

(5:54) What is a busy badge?

(8:57) The social comparison aspect of wealth.

(13:00) The rise of the Blackberry culture.

(20:34) What you do is who you are?

(24:13) Chasing after the American Dream.

(28:46) A classic second generation immigrant story.

(31:08) Emotional wealth and financial health.

(38:42) What is the Hungry Ghost?

(42:58) The music Manisha would take to a desert island.

(46:29) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on redefining success. 

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Manisha Thakor’s book, MoneyZen: The Secret to Finding Your "Enough": https://amzn.to/3JtuuXV 

Episode 102, Cristina Bicchieri: Social Norms are Bundles of Expectations: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cristina-bicchieri-social-norms-are-bundles-of-expectations/ 

Dr Malissa Clark – University of Georgia: https://psychology.uga.edu/directory/people/malissa-clark 

Matthew A. Killingsworth, Daniel Kahneman and Barbara Mellers (2022) “Income and emotional well-being: A conflict resolved”: https://www.pnas.org/doi/epdf/10.1073/pnas.2208661120 

Episode 215, Secrets of Subtraction: Donut Holes, Lego and Bruce Springsteen with Leidy Klotz: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/subtraction-with-leidy-klotz/ 

Schulte Brigid, “Why being too busy makes us feel so good,” Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-being-too-busy-makes-us-feel-so-good/2014/03/14/c098f6c8-9e81-11e3-a050-dc3322a94fa7_story.html 

DeGreeff, B., Burnett, A., & Cooley, D. (2009). “Communicating authenticity or inauthenticity in a fast-paced world,” Journal of Happiness Studies: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225649342_Communicating_and_Philosophizing_About_Authenticity_or_Inauthenticity_in_a_Fast-Paced_World 

The Hungry Ghost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_ghost 

MoneyZen quiz online: https://quiz.tryinteract.com/#/646d1000fec8ca0014804a9e 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves  

Vivaldi “Four Seasons”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRxofEmo3HA 

Lionel Hampton “Flying Home”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_rTICMVXQQ

The world of applied behavioral science has never been better. So how do you get your foot in the door to have a career in the field? You may be surprised to learn that it doesn’t have to involve getting a PhD. Merle van den Akker discusses her career journey from academia into the corporate world, and what we can learn from it.

Merle van den Akker grew up in the Netherlands and studied in the UK before moving to Australia to start her current job at the Commonwealth Bank. Though she got a lot out of her PhD studies, she realized the academic system was not a good long-term fit for her. While in her PhD, Merle started the blog "Money on the Mind" which has allowed her the opportunity to interview nearly 200 leaders in the field of behavioral science and finance. 

Having seen the world of behavioral science through the academic lens and now through the corporate lens, Kurt and Tim chat with Merle about how important a PhD is in the field (hint, it’s not!) But Merle gives her advice for all rising behavioral scientists and the many ways to incorporate behavioral insights into all fields of work. For those with behavioral science skills and knowledge, application can be used across many functional areas of an organization from marketing to HR to product development.

We also delve into Merle’s current work in finance. Financial solutions have a reputation of not being very human-centric and are difficult for people to navigate. Applying behavioral science and human-centered design can help transform these systems from within and take account of the cultural factors that influence our finances.

Please consider our work at Behavioral Grooves Podcast but donating a small amount on our Patreon site. We appreciate your help.

(3:49) Welcome and speed round questions.

(5:06) Do you need a PhD to work in Behavioral Science?

(9:10) The real reason Merle pursued a PhD.

(16:07) The taboo around talking about money. 

(19:24) Always leave your credit card at home.

(24:13) The journey from academia into industry work.

(28:26) Advice for people who are in PhD programs.

(31:41) Money on the Mind.

(40:54) What music does Merle listen to?

(45:17) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on applied behavioral science.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

CBA Bank: https://www.commbank.com.au/ 

Money on the Mind: https://www.moneyonthemind.org/about

Merle Van Den Akker’s book, “The Ultimate Guide To Doing a PhD”: https://amzn.to/3NZa1f2 

Annamaria Lusardi: https://www.annamarialusardi.com/ 

Elif Incekara-Hafalir and George Lowenstein (2009), “The Impact of Credit Cards on Spending: A Field Experiment”: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1378502 

Keith Wilcox, Lauren G. Block and Eric M. Eisenstein (2011) “Leave Home Without It? The Effects of Credit Card Debt and Available Credit on Spending”: https://www0.gsb.columbia.edu/mygsb/faculty/research/pubfiles/5688/wilcox_leave_home.pdf 

Matthew D. Hilchey, Matthew Osborne and Dilip Soman (2021) “Does the visual salience of credit card features affect choice?”: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioural-public-policy/article/abs/does-the-visual-salience-of-credit-card-features-affect-choice/BBD44889AEE0C6070F994FECFFCAB71F 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 

Flume “Go”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wypxk5H8kmE

What exactly is confidence? Peter Atwater describes it as the feelings of certainty and control that we have about our future self. He explains The Confidence Map framework and how our horizon preference and vulnerability first mindset change, based on our level of confidence.

Peter Atwater is an adjunct professor of economics at Williams and Mary University, and the President of financial insights, a consulting firm that advises global policymakers on how social mood affects decision making, the economy and the markets. He is known for coining the “K-shaped recovery” which is an economic term used by political and economic leaders. Most recently, he has examined the hidden role of confidence in the choices we make, in his new book “The Confidence Map: Charting a Path from Chaos to Clarity”.  

Confidence is inherently forward-looking and involves imagining the future, which is inherently uncertain. To illustrate this, Peter introduces us to the Confidence Map, a two-by-two grid with certainty on the x-axis and control on the y-axis. The upper right quadrant represents high confidence where there is both high certainty and control. This is the "comfort zone." The lower left quadrant represents low confidence due to low certainty and control. This is the "stress center."

The other two quadrants represent situations where there is only one of the two factors needed for confidence. The "passenger seat" quadrant has uncertainty but no control, like being a passenger in a car. The "launchpad" quadrant has control but no certainty, like pulling the lever on a slot machine.

Overconfidence and under confidence can both be issues. Organizations often ignore the vulnerability people feel during a crisis, focusing only on fixing the problem, as Boeing did during the 737 Max disasters.

Listen to Tim and Kurt’s discussion with Peter and the following Grooving Session to learn how confidence can be both an input and output of decision-making and about the complex interplay between feelings, stories and actions.

We hope you enjoy listening to our discussion with Peter and if you would like to support the work of Behavioral Grooves, we would love you to join our Behavioral Grooves Patreon membership.

(2:15) Welcome and speed round questions.

(4:44) What is confidence?

(7:50) The confidence quadrant.

(12:55) Can you have too much confidence and can it be false?

(15:49) How Behavioral Economics influences our financial decision making.

(18:42) Why groups can overestimate outcomes.

(20:42) Confidence is both an input and an output.

(23:39) Horizon preference and confidence.

(27:29) What is a vulnerability first mindset?

(29:33) How Boeing focused on the wrong issue with the 737 Max disasters.

(32:19) What music would Peter take to a desert island?

(34:44) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on confidence.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Peter Atwater: https://peteratwater.com/ 

Peter Atwater’s book: The Confidence Map: Charting a Path from Chaos to Clarity: https://amzn.to/3NB2gM3

Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky (1974) Judgment Under Uncertainty: Heuristics and Biases, Science: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.185.4157.1124 

Episode 31, Leaving the Matrix: Annie Duke and Insights into how you can improve your thinking! https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/leaving-the-matrix-annie-duke-and-insights-into-how-you-can-improve-your-thinking/

Boeing 737 Max grounding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 

Steve Sondheim “Send in the Clowns”:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBuDSsc9Pak

George Winston “Autumn”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKmqyQUDehs

Splashy headlines, sensational findings and world-first results grab our attention but they also leave us vulnerable to deception. Constantly being skeptical of research is an impractical stance, so how do we avoid being fooled by fraud? Daniel Simons and Christopher Chabris tell us exactly how.

If you’re one of the 13 million viewers of the Monkey Business Illusion video on YouTube, you are already familiar with the work of our guests on this episode, Daniel Simons and Christopher Chabris. As long time experts in the areas of deception and fraud, they have just published an excellent new book on the topic; Nobody's Fool: Why We Get Taken In and What We Can Do About It.

In our discussion with Dan Simons and Chris Chabris, we discuss ways to avoid being fooled and scammed based on insights from behavioral science. They talk about how habits and appealing information can make people vulnerable to deception. While being skeptical of everything all the time is impractical, people should be more skeptical when the stakes are high.

Scientific fraud is a growing concern and has hit the headlines again in the field of behavioral science. Dan and Chris outline the problems with current incentives in academic research and a new approach to conducting research that reduces the push for only publishing statistically significant results. 

The snapshot takeaway from this monumental discussion though is when trying to figure out who to trust in a world swimming in disinformation, fraud and scams - look for the people who are routinely admit when they’re wrong. These are the people you can trust.

Interviewing Dan and Chris was definitely a highlight of the 350+ episodes of Behavioral Grooves Podcast. We love bringing you insights from the best minds in the field of behavioral science. If you’d like to support our ongoing work, please consider becoming a Behavioral Grooves Patreon member.

(4:04) Welcome and speed round questions.

(6:56) What readers can get out of the book, Nobody’s Fool.

(11:06) Why is a book about deception timely?

(15:31) Who can we trust?

(18:52) The replication crisis in behavioral science.

(21:36) Registered reports - a new method for publishing research. 

(23:46) How to ask the right questions.

(26:38) How to detect fraud in scientific papers?

(32:59) The tension between individual choice and incentives in research.

(37:58) Normalizing a lack of confidence in your own research results.

(41:49) The bullshit receptivity scale research.

(45:09) Tips on evading selection.

(50:43) What music Dan and Chris would take to a desert island.

(55:53) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on being fooled.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

The Monkey Business Illusion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGQmdoK_ZfY 

Daniel Simons and Christopher Chabris’ book, Nobody's Fool: Why We Get Taken In and What We Can Do About It: https://amzn.to/3pHdkz6 

Pennycook, G., Cheyne, J. A., Barr, N., Koehler, D. J., & Fugelsang, J. A. (2015). Bullshit Receptivity Scale: https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037/t52525-000 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 

Talking Heads “Once in a Lifetime”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IsSpAOD6K8 

Ani Difranco “Both Hands”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th-GDhsveM4&ab_channel=HybridFalcon 

Wax Tailor “Come With Me”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzGmze5erMo&pp=ygUKd2F4IHRheWxvcg%3D%3D 

Bjork “Human Behaviour”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0mRIhK9seg&ab_channel=bj%C3%B6rk 

Supertramp “Breakfast in America”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YQb-0P320s&ab_channel=KRM 

Chris

U2 “Original Of The Species”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu9rQ8lkQ5c 

Bob Mould “I Don’t Know You Anymore”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ0ZEpJRpAE&ab_channel=MergeRecordsonYouTube 

Between disinformation and misinformation, it’s difficult to know what and who to trust, especially during a crisis. When disaster does strike, it is critical that scientific information is communicated clearly. Oceanographer Christopher Reddy discusses his experiences relaying vital information during the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in 2010.

Scientists are bathing in uncertainty. It is the basis of their work. As Chris says “if I’m certain about something, I’m not going to research it.” But during a disaster, people crave answers, not a comprehensive research paper published 5 years after the event! So a huge challenge for scientists is how to communicate effectively to both the media, the public and all of the stakeholders involved in disaster relief. 

In this episode, we’ve reached outside of our traditional box of guests and are talking with a sharp, witty and very informative scientist, Christopher Reddy. Chris is a chemist, but for reasons he explains in the podcast, he most often refers to himself as an oceanographer. He is a leader in the study of marine pollution and the development of environmentally friendly industrial chemicals and works as a senior scientist in the Department of Marine Chemistry and Geochemistry at Woods Hole Oceanographic. 

When the Deepwater Horizon oil spill disaster struck in the Gulf of Mexico in 2010, Chris was one of the sets of boots on the ground, leading the field operations. His expertise in the science of oil spills meant he was thrust into a public facing role which later got him personally entangled in the BP legal case surrounding the liability for the spill. He’s written about this experience in his new book, Science Communication in a Crisis: An Insider’s Guide.

We love bringing you interesting and funny conversations from people like Chris. If you would like to support our work, please share this episode on social media, write a review on your app or become a Behavioral Grooves Patreon member.

(3:57) Welcome and speed round questions.

(7:57) How communicating can make you a better scientist.

(13:02) Who are the most important stakeholders in the communication process?

(16:16) Mistrust in science is a big challenge.

(18:04) How to communicate uncertainty.

(22:32) Public statements have real world consequences.

(25:33) Why you shouldn’t start a conversation with your PhD qualifications!

(30:18) The hardest part of the Deepwater Horizon disaster for Chris.

(35:05) Clair Patterson’s impact on the world.

(39:11) Advice on how to become a science communicator.

(40:46) Why Chris can’t listen to music.

(46:19) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on communicating.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Chris’ book: Science Communication in a Crisis: An Insider’s Guide: https://amzn.to/3rfrKan 

Deepwater Horizon oil spill in 2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon 

Clair Patterson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clair_Cameron_Patterson 

Clair Patterson, the Hero Who Got the Lead Out of Gasoline: https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/science/environment/clair-patterson-got-lead-out-of-gasoline/ 

Freddie Mercury: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Mercury 

Larry Bird: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Bird 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 

Queen “We are the Champions”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04854XqcfCY 

Queen “We will Rock You”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tJYN-eG1zk 

Queen “Bohemian Rhapsody”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ9rUzIMcZQ 

When we pretend to know something that we don’t or start a comment with “everyone knows that...”, we create an atmosphere where answers become irrelevant. It closes off our openness to new ideas, ways of thinking and discovering new information. This is the curse of knowingness.

On this episode of Behavioral Grooves, Jonathan Malesic discusses the concept of "knowingness" - the tendency people have to act like they already know something when in fact they don't. This false sense of knowledge can prevent learning and understanding. Overcoming knowingness requires maintaining a healthy skepticism and openness to new evidence. 

Knowingness afflicts all corners of our politics. And I think that it's a real problem when it starts afflicting people whose job is to inform us.

Jonathan Malesic teaches writing at Southern Methodist University and creative nonfiction at the University of Texas at Dallas. He’s a philosopher and scholar and cares a lot about something we do every week: science communication. And he's also a previous guest on the show when he discussed how to end burnout on episode 302.

Writing for an audience can help develop empathy and moral imagination by forcing writers to imagine the needs and perspective of their readers. Jonathan argues that learning to write is an ethical training that teaches us to relate to others beyond ourselves. With the emergence of new AI tools like ChatGPT it begs the question of whether writing needs to be taught at all. But Jonathan doesn’t feel threatened by AI. He explains that with a lack of empathy, AI will never be able to effectively write for its audience. 

(3:12) Welcome and speed round questions.

(7:02) Our problem isn’t misinformation, it’s knowingness.

(9:16) Is knowingness a type of confirmation bias?

(11:31) How already knowing makes it impossible to learn anything new.

(15:04) The role of the internet and social media on confirmation bias.

(18:43) Cognitive dissonance and the structure of scientific revolutions.

(20:54) How can we overcome knowingness?

(28:55) How do you change someone’s mind?

(30:54) Do we still need to teach writing now that we have ChatGPT?

(39:09) How do we relate to people we imagine?

(43:24) What music would Jon take to a desert island?

(47:18) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on knowingness.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Episode 302, You Have Dignity Because You’re Human, Not Because You Work | Jonathan Malesic: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/you-have-dignity-jonathan-malesic/ 

Jonathan Malesic’s book “The End of Burnout: Why Work Drains Us and How to Build Better Lives”: https://amzn.to/3tDdS8j

Jonathan Lear “Open Minded: Working Out the Logic of the Soul”: https://amzn.to/3PyP2SJ 

“Our big problem is not misinformation; it’s knowingness” by Jonathan Malesic: https://psyche.co/ideas/our-big-problem-is-not-misinformation-its-knowingness

Buffalo Sabres: https://www.nhl.com/sabres 

Thomas Kuhn “The Structure of Scientific Revolutions”: https://amzn.to/3JqLe1O 

Oedipus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus 

Episode 31, Leaving the Matrix: Annie Duke and Insights into how you can improve your thinking! https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/leaving-the-matrix-annie-duke-and-insights-into-how-you-can-improve-your-thinking/ 

 Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 

 Neil Young “Harvest Moon”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2MtEsrcTTs 

Fiona Apple “Criminal”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFOzayDpWoI

We all get stuck. In relationships, in jobs or in creative endeavors. It’s a universal experience, yet most people feel incredibly lonely when they’re stuck. By shedding light on the latest research, bestselling author Adam Alter expertly unravels the psychological and practical steps you need to get unstuck.

Adam Alter PhD is a professor of Marketing at New York University's Stern School of Business with an affiliate appointment in the Psychology Department. Adam has spent the past two decades studying how people become stuck and how they free themselves to thrive. He is the author of bestsellers Drunk Tank Pink and Irresistible but we talk with him on this episode about his latest book, Anatomy of a Breakthrough: How to Get Unstuck When It Matters Most.

As someone who has kept decades of notes on interesting observations from his life, Adam peppers all his work with relatable personal stories. One of the trends of Adam’s observations from over the years is that music has provided a stream of interesting anecdotes. So it will come as no surprise to regular listeners of the Behavioral Grooves, that Tim thoroughly enjoyed talking about how music has influenced Adam’s life, research and writing!

We hope you enjoy listening to our light hearted discussion with Adam and if you would like to support the work of Behavioral Grooves, you can become a Patreon member of the show: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves.

(3:30) Welcome and speed round questions.

(4:31) Creativity is a result of productivity not insight.

(6:38) Where do people get stuck in their lives?

(7:42) Narrow bracketing - how to get rid of the messy middle.

(9:55) Why is it so hard to get unstuck?

(12:08) How to reframe difficulties as challenges.

(15:52) In hierarchical organizations, the personality of leaders matters.

(18:30) How to fail well.

(23:07) Are constraints liberating?

(26:34) The 3 part process of a friction audit?

(29:29) What is hardship inoculation?

(34:06) Finding the people who magically unstick your team.

(38:48) What makes a great band?

(42:46) How Universal Basic Income (UBI) can harness creative breakthroughs.

(45:28) Why music is a huge part of Adam’s book.

(48:10) How the economy actually dictates our musical choices. 

(53:39) The music that Adam listens to.

(57:37) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on getting unstuck.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Adam Alter’s book “Anatomy of a Breakthrough: How to Get Unstuck When It Matters Most”: https://amzn.to/3NHkQ6z 

Episode 276, How To Stay Motivated So You Exceed Your Goals with Ayelet Fishbach PhD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/motivation-to-exceed-your-goals/ 

Episode 307, Groove Track - Mind Over Milkshakes: Why Expectations Matter A Lot: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/mind-over-milkshakes-groove-track/ 

Michael Lewis “Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game”: https://amzn.to/46dqbJV 

Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Haidt, “The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure”: https://amzn.to/3NSRItb 

Episode 64, Danny Oppenheimer: Governance and Helicopter Parenting: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/danny-oppenheimer-governance-and-helicopter-parenting/ 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

EDM, trance music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xptn9MHiAdo 

Alice in Chains “Man In The Box”:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAqZb52sgpU 

Bob Dylan “Like A Rolling Stone”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwOfCgkyEj0 

Saying yes to tasks that we want to say no to is a common problem. But how do we decide which requests to turn down? Dr Vanessa Patrick PhD strategically breaks down asks into 4 useful categories. Learn to say yes to requests that align with your identity and how to communicate an empowered refusal. 

“A no that stems from your identity is a much more empowered no”

Dr Vanessa Patrick PhD is a Professor of Marketing and the Associate Dean for Research at the Bauer College of Business at the University of Houston. Her recent book “The Power of Saying No: The New Science of How to Say No That Puts You in Charge of Your Life” is an extremely practical guide in how to turn down the requests that don’t align with your identity.

While Vanessa’s academic research is rigorous and interesting, it is her poetic ability to translate her findings into useful frameworks and practical advice that makes her work resonate so powerfully. Her analogy of persistent askers being like a walnut tree evokes beautiful imagery that helps illustrate her point. And Tim’s favorite quote from the conversation is “we leak power through our nonverbal skills.” Join our discussion to learn how this elegant nugget of wisdom can help us overcome our communication weaknesses.

Producer of Behavioral Grooves, Mary Kaliff, joins regular host Tim Houlihan on this podcast episode to ask Vanessa the questions that will help you communicate empowered refusals. We figure out how to say no to tasks that don’t align with our identity and our personal priorities. But we also delve into some areas that Vanessa doesn’t address in the book, such as the social norms in individualistic and collective societies, and of course, the musical influences that have shaped Vanessa’s life.

And for regular listeners, you’ll be relieved to know that while Kurt Nelson sadly missed the interview with Vanessa, he joins Tim and Mary in the Grooving Session to summarize and develop the key points from the discussion.

(2:56) Welcome and speed round questions.

(5:13) Should we frame a refusal with “I can’t” or “I don’t”?

(6:37) Saying no to a complete stranger compared to friends & family.

(7:28) What is an empowered refusal?

(10:30) Should we sometimes say yes?

(12:44) How to overcome the flattery of being asked.

(15:07) Why women are at much greater risk of saying yes.

(16:59) How to break down asks into 4 categories.

(20:26) Why you don’t want to be walnut tree!

(23:44) Why it’s harder to say no to more powerful people.

(25:07) What is compassionate self control?

(30:41) The difference with empowered refusal in collective vs individualistic societies.

(32:46) The 3 competencies of empowered refusal.

(35:46) Life choices that have influenced Vanessa’s musical choices.

(41:13) Grooving Session with Tim, Mary and Kurt on saying no!

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Vanessa’s book, “The Power of Saying No: The New Science of How to Say No That Puts You in Charge of Your Life”: https://amzn.to/42N3cm1 

Episode 277, No Regrets? Really? Why Regrets Actually Bring Us Hope with Daniel H. Pink: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-regrets-bring-us-hope/ 

Episode 350, How One Small Word Can Transform Our Motivation, Success And Relationships with Jonah Berger: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/words-can-transform-jonah-berger/ 

Episode 278, How Can Smart, Kind People Harness Their Influence? Zoe Chance: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/harness-influence-zoe-chance/ 

Episode 325, Can You Unlearn History And Still Love Your Country? With Dolly Chugh: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/dolly-chugh/ 

Episode 18, Stars – Cores – Laggards – Better Incentives for Your Sales Reps featuring Dr. Michael Ahearne: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/stars-cores-laggards-better-incentives-for-your-sales-reps-featuring-dr-michael-ahearne/ 

Patrick, Vanessa & Hagtvedt, Henrik. (2012). “I Don’t” versus “I Can’t”: When Empowered Refusal Motivates Goal-Directed Behavior. Journal of Consumer Research: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/239810645_I_Don't_versus_I_Can't_When_Empowered_Refusal_Motivates_Goal-Directed_Behavior 

Patrick, Vanessa and Mead, Nicole (2016) , The taming of desire: Unspecific postponement reduces desire for and consumption of postponed temptations: https://ssrn.com/abstract=3602254

The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom by Don Miguel Ruiz: https://amzn.to/3NdIHcw 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

Phantom of the Opera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGb4hj-EXt0 

Elvis Presley “Hound Dog”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNYWl13IWhY 

Understanding how we think can change our thinking. From confirmation biases, to uncertainty, to overconfidence, we are all blessed with the same thinking patterns that affect our decision making. Yale professor, Dr Woo-kyoung Ahn walks us through the latest cognitive research on “thinking problems”, and most importantly, how we can overcome them.

Woo-kyoung Ahn is a psychology professor and the director of the Thinking Lab at Yale University. Recently she wrote a riveting book titled “Thinking 101: How to Reason Better to Live Better.” On this episode of Behavioral Grooves, she joins Tim Houlihan and producer Mary Kaliff to make the case that there are some good reasons behind our ways of thinking. For example, confirmation bias can save us energy and help bring consistency to our lives. 

Dr Ahn illustrates her book and this discussion with many relatable, personal stories that illustrate our patterns of thinking. Our favorite is that she recently updated her lecture notes for her class at Yale on the planning fallacy. She had optimistically estimated it would take her 3 days. Ironically, it took her 3 weeks!

As always, the most useful part of the conversation on Behavioral Grooves are the practical tips that we can use in our everyday life. And Woo-kyoung offers us plenty of useful ways we change our perspective and improve our lives. Join Tim and Mary for further discussion in the Grooving Session on how to apply Woo-kyoung’s work.

(3:16) Welcome and speed round questions.

(6:26) Who is Thinking 101 written for?

(9:58) What are “thinking problems” and what exactly is confirmation bias?

(12:29) What is the link between maximizing, satisficing and confirmation bias?

(18:09) Should we change people's minds or change our perspective?

(20:33) Why are we overconfident about what others are thinking?

(23:22) Why is confirmation bias hardwired in us?

(26:25) Why are highly educated women biased against other highly educated women?

(28:38) What can we do about confirmation bias in job selection?

(31:43) How do collective societies vs individualistic societies affect our identity?

(34:18) The difference between emotional theory of mind and cognitive theory of mind.

(35:42) How to combat the planning fallacy.

(41:40) How uncertainty affects our decision making.

(46:11) What music would Woo-kyoung take to a desert island?

(47:49) Grooving Session with Tim and Mary about uncertainty and decision making.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Woo-kyoung Ahn: https://wkahn.com/about 

Thinking 101: How to Reason Better to Live Better: https://amzn.to/3MW7dQH 

Episode 300, You Can Change Someone’s Mind But Are You Sure You Want To? | David McRaney: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/changing-minds-david-mcraney/ 

Episode 31, Leaving the Matrix: Annie Duke and Insights into how you can improve your thinking! https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/leaving-the-matrix-annie-duke-and-insights-into-how-you-can-improve-your-thinking/ 

Episode 345, The Tools You Need To Embrace Uncertainty | Nathan and Susannah Harmon Furr: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/tools-to-embrace-uncertainty/ 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

YoYo Ma playing J.S. Bach’s Cello Suite No.1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObSD2fXWU0I  

BTS “ Yet To Come (The Most Beautiful Moment)”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXpOEzNZ8hQ&ab_channel=HYBELABELS

If you compare executive pay of men and women in C suite jobs, you will often not find a discrepancy in their wages. You will also be completely missing the point. The gender pay gap exists because it is more difficult for women to reach executive level success. Throughout their career progression, but particularly early on, women face more discrimination than men, and so fewer women are ultimately promoted to the highest level of an organization.

Gender discrimination is one of the recent topics covered by Alex Imas PhD, in his research. Alex is a behavioral economist with a focus on dynamic decision-making. His research explores topics related to choice under uncertainty, discrimination, mental representation, and how people learn from information. 

Most recently, Alex has been the recipient of the 2023 Alfred P. Sloan Research Fellowship which seeks to stimulate fundamental research by early-career scientists and scholars of outstanding promise.

Alex’s work on discrimination in the workplace sheds vital light on the cause of the problem which isn’t just found within the hiring process. But before Kurt and Tim discuss this topic with Alex, the conversation kicks off with the fascinating findings that have fed off Robert Cialdini’s founding work - that scarcity drives consumer demand.

It was back in episode 71, that Alex was originally a guest on Behavioral Grooves. And Tim was more than happy to rekindle the initial musical discussion around Tom Waits and Bob Dylan. But Alex also delights us with how the pandemic altered his listening behavior and opened him up to some new favorite bands.

(4:59) Welcome and speed round questions.

(7:!8) How exclusivity can drive demand.

(14:56) Access desire is the key to driving demand.

(16:50) What are Alex’s plans with being awarded the Sloan Fellowship?

(21:41) Integrating behavioral science into the workplace.

(26:17) The latest research on gender discrimination in the workplace.

(32:11) Why looking at salaries for men and women doing the same job is not enough.

(36:20) How algorithms can exacerbate and scale biases.

(40:20) How Tom Waits’ music has inspired Alex to explore new areas of creativity.

(47:38) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on discrimination. 

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Alex Imas: http://www.aleximas.com/ 

NBER: https://www.nber.org/ 

Episode 355, Want Marketing That’s Effective? Use a Behavioral Science Perspective | Nancy Harhut: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/marketing-using-behavioral-science/ 

Episode 71, Alex Imas: Clawback Incentives and Tom Waits: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/alex-imas-clawback-incentives-and-tom-waits/ 

Alex Imas & Kristóf Madarász (2022) “Superiority-Seeking and the Preference for Exclusion”: https://www.nber.org/papers/w30334 

Episode 226, The Power of Unity: Robert Cialdini Expands His Best Selling Book Influence: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cialdini-unity-in-influence/ 

Benjamin Handel: https://www.benjaminhandel.com/ 

Imas, J. A. Bohren and M. Rosenberg (2019) "The Dynamics of Discrimination: Theory and Evidence," American Economic Review: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57967bc7cd0f68048126361d/t/5cdf2d4c7d1b310001d046fc/1558129997622/BohrenImasRosenberg_DynamicsDiscrimination_January2019.pdf

Episode 293, Women Do Too Much Non-Promotable Work: How To Say No More with Linda Babcock: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/women-do-too-much/ 

Episode 204, How Shellye Archambeau Flies Like an Eagle: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/shellye-archambeau-like-an-eagle/ 

Tom Waits “Downtown Train”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLtZKkCIVmI 

Bob Dylan “My Back Pages”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92cF_KCH7TU 

Bob Dylan “Johanna”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwuCF5lYqEE 

Yeah, Yeah, Yeahs “Way Out”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh3DXuNH9A0 

The Strokes “Last Nite”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOypSnKFHrE 

The Vines “Get Free”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asOvnGHwtDU 

The White Stripes “Seven Nation Army”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J2QdDbelmY 

Fontaines D.C. “Jackie Down The Line”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AoOfJP3r40  

Bright Eyes “First Day of My Life”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUBYzpCNQ1I 

Want people to comply with rules at work? Stop assuming that they are going to break the rules. The vast majority of people want to do the right thing. So if you’re finding that people aren’t complying, you’ve got a rule problem, not a people problem. 

Our expert guest and friend of the show, Christian Hunt turns compliance on its head in this episode: 

“I thought compliance was all about rules and regulations, which it is, but that is the organization's perspective on it. The organization needs to comply with these rules. That's the organization’s challenge. But to get that solved, you’ve got to be thinking about things from the perspective of the people that are going to deliver or not deliver that mission.”

Thinking about the people behind the rules is the crux of Christian’s new book “Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics and Compliance”, which we are thrilled to be discussing on this episode of Behavioral Grooves.

We’ve had the pleasure of recording with Christian a number of times. Most notably at  the Abbey Road Studios in London where we talked about the risks and benefits of cheating in episode 326. We have also delved into how to not outsource your critical thinking during in episode 122, as well as covering the 5 principles of human risk - in other words, the myths that humans cling to that don’t help us - way back in episode 86. And most recently, Christian joined in our conversation in episode 339, giving very practical tips on how to read a book quickly.

Christians is a fellow podcaster, hosting a fantastic show called The Human Risk Podcast (you should definitely take a listen) which explores the idea of human decision-making as a risk and what we can do to mitigate it. 

Unbelievably, despite this being the 5th time on Behavioral Grooves, this is the first time we get to hear Christian’s musical picks. And as always, this part of the discussion reveals a bit more about our guest that we didn’t know before.

(4:33) Welcome and speed round questions.

(7:02) Should rules be designed for bad people or good people?

(12:24) Why Compliance Officer is the worst job title!

(15:31) Christian’s journey into compliance.

(20:24) Don’t focus on what you'd like people to do, but focus on what people are likely to do.

(24:12) The difference between recoverable and irrecoverable issues.

(27:44) Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

(31:06) People problem or rule problem?

(34:27) Who the hell is Mr Logic?

(43:13) How to get people to pay attention to compliance.

(47:19) Learning about compliance from sexologists!

(53:01) What music would Christian take to a desert island?

(58:32) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on compliance.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Human Risk Podcast: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ 

Christian’s book, “Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics and Compliance”: https://amzn.to/428gp8s 

Episode 326, Grooving on Cheating: Kurt, Tim, Christian Hunt, and Koen Smets: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/grooving-on-cheating/ 

Episode 122, Don’t Outsource Your Critical Thinking with Christian Hunt: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/c-19-dont-outsource-your-critical-thinking-with-christian-hunt/ 

Episode 86, Christian Hunt: Mitigating Human Risk and The Algorithmic Mind: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/christian-hunt-mitigating-human-risk-and-the-algorithmic-mind/ 

Episode 339, Top 2 Tips on How to Read a Book Quickly: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-read-a-book-quickly/  

Mr Logic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab6yslxLRyQ&ab_channel=ViolenceMatters 

Human Risk and the sexologist, Jill McDevitt: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/sexologist-dr-jill-mcdevitt-on/

Herbert Grönemeyer: https://www.groenemeyer.de/

Happy 60th, Herbert Grönemeyer: https://www.dw.com/en/herbert-gr%C3%B6nemeyer-germanys-most-successful-musician-turns-60/a-19180054

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

The Beatles “I Feel Fine”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrAV5EVI4tU 

Herbert Grönemeyer singt "Bochum" live im Stadion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFRQQCZglwI 

Goals are as common and as misunderstood as mobile phones. We think we know how to use them, but we don’t get it right every time. And if we were asked to explain how they work, we’d be clueless.

In this Grooving Session, Kurt and Tim discuss the magic of goals and how to best utilize them. We discuss some goal-setting studies – both published and unpublished – and some fundamental reasons why goals are important. We also get into some complementary research on the illusionary progress to goal and the goal gradient theory, both linked to the work of Ran Kivetz, from Columbia University. It’s a quick discussion of some important applications of how to make goals work better for YOU!

CONTEST ALERT! And as a special thank-you, we’re going to select a single listener to be our special guest on a future podcast. To let us know you’re interested in being our special guest, use #IWANTTOBEYOURSPECIALGUEST when you forward this episode on LinkedIn, Twitter or Facebook and we’ll select a winner. We want YOU to be our special guest to hear YOUR questions about behavioral sciences.

This is a republished episode that was originally episode 27 of Behavioral Grooves, back in September 2018 (yes Tim and Kurt really have been podcasting that long!) But we felt the content of this episode was timeless.

And the offer of being a guest on the show? Yes, we still mean it! Share the hashtag and come join Kurt and Tim on a future episode!

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Between setting your goals and reaching your goals, there is a void that we assume willpower can fill. But to achieve success, it takes more than willpower alone. Thankfully there are some well researched tools that we can set in place to help us flourish.

Hosts of Behavioral Grooves Kurt Nelson and Tim Houlihan sit down for a succinct Groove Track episode summarizing the myths about willpower, what other factors are at play when striving for our goals, and the tools we can use to help us succeed. 

• Willpower is not enough on its own.
• Your environment - both your physical and social contexts - influence your behavior.
• Routines can help you achieve your goals.

And routines work best when they:

• Fit into our lifestyle.
• Focus on the steps to the goal.
• Fuel consistency.
• Provide intrinsic or extrinsic reward.

And tools are useful to:

• Help remind and motivate. 
• Assist with planning and strategizing.
• Track and measure our progress.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Mazuch & Rona (2005), “Creating healing environments: humanistic architecture and therapeutic design”: https://www.proquest.com/scholarly-journals/creating-healing-environments-humanistic/docview/212385610/se-2 

McMains & Kastner (2011), “Interactions of top-down and bottom-up mechanisms in human visual cortex”: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21228167/ 

Wendy Wood, “Good Habits, Bad Habits: The Science of Making Positive Changes That Stick”: https://amzn.to/3LTMlYl 

Katy Milkman, “How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be”: https://amzn.to/3pzBb3t 

The Brain/Shift Journal - Scientifically Proven Guided Journal for Goal Setting and Achieving: A 13-Week Undated Planner, Organizer, and Notebook for Personal Productivity: https://amzn.to/42rjilP 

Earning your 10th cup of coffee for free isn’t nearly as satisfying as being randomly awarded a free coffee from your barista. These uncertain rewards are a genius way of enforcing new habits, which our guest Richard Shotton outlines in his fantastic new book.

In fact, Richard’s book “The Illusion of Choice: 16 ½ psychological biases that influence what we buy" is a treasure trove of research and anecdotes which bridge the gap between the very technical world of academia and the “wild” application of behavioral science in real world marketing.

Kurt and Tim don’t delve into all 16 ½ psychological biases from the book, but their conversation with Richard jumps into some fascinating topics. Among them are the seemingly contradictory chapters in Richard’s book that are titled “Make It Easy” and “Make It Difficult”. So which is it - should we add or remove friction to products? In fact, it’s both! And (as we love to say on Behavioral Grooves) it depends on the context and ultimately what your marketing goal is.

“You've got to be very clear about what is the barrier, or what is the problem you are trying to resolve as a marketer. And once you're clear about that, then it's easy to match the right behavioral science experiment, and therefore the right recommendation to that problem.”

We discuss the power of simple, concrete language; why we perceive precise numbers to be more accurate; and how authoritarian language can discourage customers, employees and possibly citizens.

As mentioned in the show, we were recently honored to be awarded the 2023 Behavioral Science Podcast of the Year by GAABS. Thank you to the wonderful team at GAABS, and all our listeners who made this possible, we really appreciate your ongoing support.

(5:33) Welcome and speed round question.

(7:57) Why randomly being awarded a coffee is so satisfying. 

(13:00) Closing the gap between academia and applied behavioral science.

(15:12) The power of concrete over abstract words.

(20:48) Breaking prices down to unit price is perceived as better value.

(24:32) How precise pricing increases the acceptance rate.

(28:38) Why simple language is so important.

(33:40) When is it best to increase friction and when should you remove friction? 

(40:44) Is there actually a replication “crisis” in behavioral science?

(42:48) Authoritarian messages could have a negative effect on customers and employees.

(47:36) What musical artists would Richard take to a desert island?

(52:20) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on Richard’s work.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

GAABS: https://gaabs.org/ 

Richard Shotton’s book “The Illusion of Choice: 16 ½ psychological biases that influence what we buy”: https://amzn.to/3LxOCs5 

Astroten: https://www.astroten.co.uk/ 

Dishoom restaurant: https://www.dishoom.com/ 

Ian Begg (1972)  “Recall of meaningful phrases”, Journal of Verbal Learning and Verbal Behaviour: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022537172800240 

Robert Schindler & Richard Yalch (2006), “It Seems Factual, But Is It? Effects of Using Sharp versus Round Numbers in Advertising Claims” Advances in Consumer Research: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279544736_It_Seems_Factual_But_Is_It_Effects_of_Using_Sharp_versus_Round_Numbers_in_Advertising_Claims 

Episode 64, Danny Oppenheimer: Governance and Helicopter Parenting: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/danny-oppenheimer-governance-and-helicopter-parenting/  

Daniel Oppenheimer (2006) “Consequences of Erudite Vernacular Utilized Irrespective of Necessity: Problems with Using Long Words Needlessly” Applied Cognitive Psychology: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227513726_Consequences_of_erudite_vernacular_utilized_irrespective_of_necessity_Problems_with_using_long_words_needlessly 

Ig Nobel Prizel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ig_Nobel_Prize 

The IKEA effect: https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/ikea-effect#:~:text=The%20IKEA%20effect%2C%20named%20after,expended%20effort%20to%20create%20them. 

Felicia Pratto & Oliver John (1991) “The attention-grabbing power of negative social information”: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/21213504_Automatic_Vigilance_The_Attention-Grabbing_Power_of_Negative_Social_Information 

Episode 350, How One Small Word Can Transform Our Motivation, Success And Relationships | Jonah Berger:  https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/words-can-transform-jonah-berger/ 

Variable Ratio Reinforcement: https://practicalpie.com/variable-ratio-reinforcement/ 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

David Bowie “Starman”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRcPA7Fzebw&pp=ygUTZGF2aWQgYm93aWUgc3Rhcm1hbg%3D%3D 

The Strokes “Last Night”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOypSnKFHrE&pp=ygULdGhlIHN0cm9rZXM%3D 

The Verve “Bitter Sweet Symphony”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lyu1KKwC74&ab_channel=TheVerveVEVO 

The Cure “Pictures Of You”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmFFTkjs-O0&ab_channel=TheCureVEVO 

Wonder Stuff “Don’t Let Me Down Gently”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIKUZjc4gVo&ab_channel=TheWonderStuffVEVO 

Stone Roses “I Wanna Be Adored”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D2qcbu26gs&pp=ygULc3RvbmUgcm9zZXM%3D 

John Prine “I Remember Everything”:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww1SenQwaMg 

Public Enemy “Fight The Power”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WHe5fxS3dA&ab_channel=UPROXXVideo 

Interested in a secret, underused marketing trick?  Use rhyme in your design! You may easily recall examples like “Bounty: the quicker picker upper” or “Duracell: no battery is stronger, longer”. By including rhyming words in your marketing, your content is actually more memorable and more believable. This is just one of the 25 behavioral science tips that our expert guest, Nancy Harhut outlines in her comprehensive new book, “Using Behavioral Science in Marketing”. 

Nancy Harhutt is Co-Founder and Chief Creative Officer at HBT Marketing, a consultancy that specializes in applying human behavior techniques to marketing. Her new book Using Behavioral Science in Marketing: Drive Customer Action and Loyalty by Prompting Instinctive Responses is an easy-to-use guide on how to apply behavioral insights.

“Behavioral science is tailor made for marketing. At the end of the day, marketers are trying to convince people to do something, we're trying to influence behavior.”

While Nancy’s book is written for those in the marketing field, it is applicable to anyone trying to negotiate, influence or strategize with others. One of the things that makes the book such a helpful guide is Nancy’s use of industry stories to illustrate the effectiveness of her applied behavioral science techniques, and she shares some of these with us in our discussion.

Kurt and Tim talk with Nancy about the weightiness of temporal landmarks, such as birthdays and fresh starts; why rhyming is an underused secret in marketing; and the reason why the reciprocity principle can be so effective with clients.

Whether your job title is in marketing or you frequently find yourself trying to influence others behavior, you will gain some useful insight from Nancy’s interview. If you are a regular listener of Behavioral Grooves, please consider becoming a supporter too, through the Behavioral Grooves Pateron page.

(3:24) Welcome and speed round questions.

(6:11) How behavioral science can be incredibly useful in marketing.

(9:04) How Nancy first used the autonomy bias in a marketing campaign.

(13:43) How do you measure marketing results?

(17:28) What are the differences between labeling and framing?

(24:14) The secret of rhyming in marketing.

(30:29) How birthdays can impact our behavior. 

(36:00) Is marketing missing any tricks?

(43:29) How the default settings on Spotify changed.

(49:05) What music would Nancy take to a desert island?

(51:32) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Nancy Harhut’s book: “Using Behavioral Science in Marketing: Drive Customer Action and Loyalty by Prompting Instinctive Responses”: https://amzn.to/41CAC72 

Nancy Harhut: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancyharhut 

Stephen Sondheim: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Sondheim 

Frank Lesser: https://www.franklesser.com/  

Stephen Schwartz: https://stephenschwartz.com/ 

Episode 351, How One Small Word Can Transform Our Motivation, Success And Relationships with Jonah Berger: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/words-can-transform-jonah-berger/ 

Ogilvy: https://www.ogilvy.com/ 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 

West Side Story “Maria”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39WPioTx1zQ  

The Beatles “Help”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q_ZzBGPdqE 

Wicked “Defying Gravity”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEq3xM-i0Ng 

Is a happy life one that is abundant with pleasure? Or one without pain? Or one that overcomes struggle? The quest for a good life may go beyond the scope of a psychological study. But bestselling author, Paul Bloom does believe that psychology can help us maximize the circumstances that contribute to our happiness.

In the second part of our interview with psychologist Paul Bloom we delve more into his book  “Psych: The Story of the Human Mind”. Not only do we discuss the factors that lead to a happy life, we talk to Paul about the evolution of selfish versus altruistic behaviors, the ongoing debate between nature versus nurture, how maximizers and satisficers differ and what exactly hypophobia is.

If you’d like to listen to the first part of Paul’s interview, tune in to episode 352 and you'll also enjoy our previous discussion with Paul about his book, The Sweet Spot in episode 241. 

Become a podcast follower of Behavioral Grooves and you will automatically be notified when our new weekly episodes go live.

(2:23) Why Paul hasn’t written a psychology textbook.

(5:03) The evolution of kindness and selfishness. 

(11:57) Nature vs. nurture.

(15:30) Why do we care more about our differences than our similarities?

(18:07) Maximizers vs. satisficers? 

(20:28) Is language infinite in principle, but finite in practice?

(22:19) What is a good life?

(27:34) Do a lot of our politicians have hypophobia (lack of fear)?

(30:47) What music would Paul take to a desert island?

(34:30) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Episode 352, Psychology: Should Freud Still Be On The Syllabus? Paul Bloom, Part 1: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/psychology-freud-on-the-syllabus/ 

Paul Bloom’s book “Psych: The Story of the Human Mind”: https://amzn.to/3MF6raM 

Episode 241 with Paul Bloom, Why Finding Pleasure in Life is a Painful Journey: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/pleasure-is-a-painful-journey/ 

Lila Gleitman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lila_R._Gleitman 

Noam Chomsky: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky 

Randolph Nesse: https://www.randolphnesse.com/ 

The White Lotus Soundtrack “I Want to Live”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I9ffEzCPIA 

Elton John “The Last Song”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5eEQJZm7ZM 

David Bowie “Changes”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BgF7Y3q-as 

Tracey Chapman “Fast Car”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOAlaACuv4 

Joan Armatrading “Already There”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChMcN0ke1eA 

Suzanne Vega “Walk on The Wild Side”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEXGLRLhWls 

Led Zeppelin “Stairway to Heaven”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly6ZhQVnVow 

Pink Floyd “Time”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr0-7Ds79zo 

Ask someone to name a famous psychologist and there’s a good chance they’ll say Sigmund Freud. Describing a person as “anal” or rebuking someone with “I'm not your mother”, are both references to Freud’s work. Since many of his outlandish theories have long been debunked, should he still be part of psychology teaching? Author Paul Bloom lays the case for why he has dedicated a whole chapter to Freud in his new book Psych.

This is the first of two episodes with Paul Bloom, who we are warmly welcoming back to the Behavioral Grooves Podcast following his previous interview in episode 274 back in 2022. Paul joins us to discuss his new book, Psych: The Story of the Human Mind. And since we had such a fascinating (and long!) conversation with Paul, we decided to break it into two, more digestible, episodes. 

In this first episode, we spend time discussing the history of psychology, delving into the importance of Freud, Skinner and Milgram and the impact that behaviorism had. We also jump to the hypothetical future of psychology and where the field may make seismic progress over the next 50 years.

By becoming a follower of Behavioral Grooves Podcast, you will automatically be notified when the second episode of Paul’s interview is released next week, on Monday, April 24th. In that interview, we will delve more into Paul’s book. We will talk about the impetus to write Psych, selfish vs altruistic behaviors, and what makes a good life. 

(5:00) Welcome to Paul Bloom and speed round questions.

(9:33) Why Paul wrote the book Psych.

(12:15) Why Sigmund Freud had a whole chapter in the book.

(18:08) The reason Paul doesn’t have much love for B.F. Skinner.

(25:09) Milgram experiments during a wild west time in psychology.

(29:33) Do we have free will?

(33:42) How will the field of psychology change over the next 50 years?

(37:49) The failures of neuroscience.

(42:41) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on the history of psychology. 

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Paul Bloom’s book “Psych: The Story of the Human Mind”: https://amzn.to/3MF6raM 

Episode 274 with Paul Bloom, Why Finding Pleasure in Life is a Painful Journey: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/pleasure-is-a-painful-journey/ 

Sigmund Freud: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud 

Episode 67, George Loewenstein: On a Functional Theory of Boredom: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/george-loewenstein-on-a-functional-theory-of-boredom/ 

Carl Jung: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung 

B.F. Skinner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner 

Episode 247, Stanford Prison Experiment, 50 Years On: What Have We Really Learnt? With Dr Philip Zimbardo: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/stanford-prison-experiment/ 

Stanley Milgram experiment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment 

Episode 312, How To Find Meaning IN Life | Dr Brian Lowery PhD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/meaning-in-life-brian-lowery/ 

Episode 248, Do We Control Situations or Do Situations Control Us? With John Bargh: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/control-situations-with-john-bargh/ 

With curiosity we can figure out what we actually want. Sometimes what we desire makes us feel uncomfortable, and as a therapist, our guest Charlotte Fox Weber makes space for that discomfort. Join us as she highlights her observations from the therapist's chair.

“I think curiosity is a life force. It engages us, it galvanizes us, it's inspiring, and it gets us to pay attention.” ~ Charlotte Fox Weber

Many people see a therapist to help them work through psychological issues. But have you ever considered what the dynamic is like from the point of view of the therapist? If you were a fly on the wall, what would you observe behind the closed doors? 

Charlotte Fox Weber brings a unique perspective to the therapist-client relationship. Her new book “Tell Me What You Want: A Therapist and Her Clients Explore Our 12 Deepest Desires”: https://amzn.to/3ZJ9XUl, expertly pulls out recurring themes from her years as a therapist which are beautifully illustrated with captivating stories.

According to Charlotte, we each have 12 fundamental psychological needs that we all share but often hide. These universal desires are: to love and be loved; understanding, power, attention, freedom; to create, to belong, to win, to connect, to control; and to want what we shouldn’t. With her experience as a therapist, Charlotte is aiming to help us navigate our desires through curiosity and authenticity. If we can more accurately acknowledge what we actually want, we can live a more fulfilled life.

“The 12 desires I describe, all have to do with recognition.” ~ Charlotte Fox Weber

Our interview with Charlotte was recorded a few weeks ago when Tim Houlihan was unwell, so our producer Mary Kaliff joins Kurt on this episode as co-host of the show. But you’ll be pleased to know that Tim is doing much better now and you’ll be hearing his familiar voice on all upcoming episodes again!

(1:56) Welcome and speed round questions.

(4:09) Why is it so hard for us to say what we want?

(8:14) Why curiosity is so important in therapy.

(11:37) The 12 desires that we each experience.

(13:27) Do we have desires that stay consistent throughout our life?

(18:22) How do we reconcile all of our identities?

(20:14) Why do we struggle holding two truths simultaneously?

(25:42) How jazz music helps us appreciate the notes unplayed.

(29:50) Of the 12 desires, which one makes us most uncomfortable?

(33:53) The cost of giving or paying attention.

(36:39) Grooving session with Kurt and Mary.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Charlotte Fox Weber: https://charlottefoxweber.com/ 

Charlotte’s book: “Tell Me What You Want: A Therapist and Her Clients Explore Our 12 Deepest Desires”: https://amzn.to/3ZJ9XUl 

Shankar Vedantam TED Talk “You don't actually know what your future self wants”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtfaccGmCCs 

Episode 325, Can You Unlearn History And Still Love Your Country? With Dolly Chugh: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/dolly-chugh/ 

Episode 178, Kwame Christian: On Compassionate Curiosity, Social Justice Conversations, and Cinnamon Toast Crunch: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/kwame-christian-on-compassionate-curiosity-social-justice-conversations-and-cinnamon-toast-crunch/ 

Episode 344, How To Frame Incentives To Drive The Desired Behavior with James Castello: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/incentives-to-drive-behavior/ 

Episode 237, Attention: How to Capture It and Keep It with Ben Parr: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/attention-with-ben-parr/ 

Episode 303, From Distracted To Focused: Nir Eyal’s Secrets On How To Be Indistractable: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/nir-eyal-how-to-be-indistractable/ 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

Nina Simone “Feeling Good”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHRNrgDIJfo

Words matter. Unbelievably, tiny changes to language can have a big effect on behavior. Hear bestselling author, Jonah Berger reveal the magic words that can completely transform how we behave, in this riveting episode.

Almost everything we do involves words. But have you ever stopped to consider how much influence the words you choose can have on the person reading your email, or listening to your presentation? Some words are more impactful than others. In fact, we can captivate, motivate and convince people with our words. But which words are the most powerful? 

Listen in to find out:

• How words can shape our identity.
• Tips on using language to positively affect our relationships.
• How simply changing the words in an email can dramatically alter behavior.

Jonah Berger’s last book, “Magic Words: What To Say To Get Your Way” is a succinct summary of the latest scientific research on words and language. Jonah joins us on Behavioral Grooves, not only to tell us about what to expect in the book, but also to recount the story of how the idea for the book was sparked by a delayed flight.

Jonah is a former guest of Behavioral Grooves Podcast, having previously been on the show to discuss his bestselling book The Catalyst: How to Change Anyone's Mind. He is a professor at The Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania and is known as a world-renowned expert on natural language processing, word of mouth, influence, consumer behavior, and why things catch on. 

Word of mouth is the number one way that new listeners find out about Behavioral Grooves podcast. If you feel wiser having listened to this episode, please share it on social media or email it to your friends and encourage them to become a listener too. Thank you!

(3:27) Welcome and speed round questions.

(5:09) Why asking for advice makes us actually seem smarter.

(7:17) Using abstract vs. concrete language.

(12:42) How Jonah researched the use of language.

(16:49) How can our language affect our relationships.

(19:31) Turning actions into identities.

(22:47) Priming behavior with language.

(25:00) Do the lyrics of songs help explain their success?

(28:27) Grooving Session with Tim and Kurt on why words matter.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Jonah Berger: https://jonahberger.com/ 

Jonah’s book, “Magic Words: What To Say To Get Your Way”: https://amzn.to/3Kp9r9T 

Episode 201, The Counterintuitive Persuasion of The Catalyst with Jonah Berger: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-catalyst-with-jonah-berger/ 

Episode 147, Gary Latham, PhD: Goal Setting, Prompts, Priming, and Skepticism: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/gary-latham-goal-setting-prompts/ 

Episode 319, John Bargh: Want to Know How Priming Works? It Starts With Your Conscious, Not Your Unconscious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B_UYYPb-Gk&ab_channel=RUNDMCVEVO 

Leonardelli, Geoffrey & Pickett, Cynthia & Brewer, Marilynn. (2010). Optimal Distinctiveness Theory. Advances in Experimental Social Psychology: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/241065845_Optimal_Distinctiveness_Theory 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

Suzanne Vega, DNA “Tom's Diner”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4jtIDaeaWI 

RUN DMC - Walk This Way featuring Aerosmith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B_UYYPb-Gk&ab_channel=RUNDMCVEVO

What lies ahead for applied behavioral science? How can we learn from the massive growth in the field over the last 15 years? Our guest, Michael Hallsworth, has very recently published a manifesto on the future of behavioural science and we’re privileged to discuss this landmark publication with him on this episode.

Dr Michael Hallsworth PhD has been on the forefront of thought leadership and scholarship in behavioral science for many years. Having earned his PhD in Behavioural Economics from Imperial College in London, he has since spent most of his career working in either public policy or on corporate applications around the world. He is now the Managing Director, North America for the Behavioural Insights Team (BIT).

Stemming from the original Behavioural Insights Team formed at the heart of the UK government in 2010, BIT has grown into a global company, driving positive change in communities and organizations all across the world. Having grown international teams, demonstrated workable behavioral results and shaken up policies around the world, Michael felt it was a good time for BIT to reflect on how far they had come.

In the Manifesto for Applying Behavioural Science, Michael lays out 10 proposals that chart the path forward for behavioral science. We touch on these proposals in our discussion with Michael and the opportunities they present for the future.

* Behavioral science is a global field but unfortunately the spelling is not! In an effort to be diplomatic, we are using both spellings in the show notes!

(4:54) Why does behavioural science need a manifesto?

(7:18) What are some of the major themes?

(11:15) How Michael is flipping the prospective on scaling.

(16:37) Using behavioral science as a lens.

(21:33) Putting randomized controlled trials (RCTs) in their place.

(26:02) Choice infrastructure.

(30:25) The vulnerability of behavioral science to overconfidence.

(35:09) Reframing our language away from rational vs irrational behavior.

(39:25) Using algorithms to reduce inequities rather than exploit vulnerabilities. 

(47:28) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on applying behavioral science.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Manifesto for Applying Behavioural Science: https://www.bi.team/publications/a-manifesto-for-applying-behavioral-science/ 

Misconceptions about the Practice of Behavioral Public Policy: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4328659 

EAST Model: https://www.bi.team/publications/east-four-simple-ways-to-apply-behavioural-insights/ 

Mindscape Framework: https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/neuroscience/mindspace-framework 

Ruth Schmidt, Zeya Chen, Veronica Paz Soldan (2022) Choice Posture, Architecture, and Infrastructure: Systemic Behavioral Design for Public Health Policy: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2405872622000661 

Ruth Schmidt & Katelyn Stenger (2021). Behavioral brittleness: The case for strategic behavioral public policy: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioural-public-policy/article/behavioral-brittleness-the-case-for-strategic-behavioral-public-policy/200D5BBC2947F7AB0CD4B4CD71B6A607 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 

What if there was a way to end poverty and solve climate change, that might actually work. Shouldn’t we try it? Our guest Erik Angner thinks economics holds the solutions to some of the world’s biggest problems but that economists have done a woeful job of PR! He’s on a mission to change that.

Erik Angner PhD is Professor of Practical Philosophy at Stockholm University. He holds, not one but two PhDs – in Economics and in History and Philosophy of Science – both from the University of Pittsburgh. 

Erik joins us on Behavioral Grooves to discuss his new book How Economics Can Save the World. He is also the author of two other books, Hayek and Natural Law and A Course in Behavioral Economics as well as multiple journal articles and book chapters on behavioral and experimental economics; the science and philosophy of happiness; and the history, philosophy, and methodology of contemporary economics. 

Please join us on Behavioral Grooves Twitter (@behavioralgroov) to take part in some poll questions around Erik’s episode and discuss this conversation.

(3:34) Welcome and speed round questions.

(7:12) What exactly is economics and how is it useful?

(11:15) How can economics save the world?

(13:10) How we can actually solve poverty.

(17:14) Scarcity and how it influences our behavior.

(21:08) The scarcity of healthcare.

(24:35) Why trust is the critical factor in vaccination take-up.

(28:55) What are the unintended consequences?

(31:30) How can economics solve climate change?

(36:36) How social norms influence our behavior.

(41:29) Does money make us happy?

(49:11) What music would Erik take on a desert island?

(51:40) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on saving the world.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Erik Angner PhD: https://www.erikangner.com/

Erik’s book “How Economics Can Save the World: Simple Ideas to Solve Our Biggest Problems”: https://amzn.to/3YU49qN 

Episode 102, Christina Bicchieri, PhD: Social Norms are Bundles of Expectations: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cristina-bicchieri-social-norms-are-bundles-of-expectations/ 

Friedrich Hayek: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Hayek 

Jeremy Bentham: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10902-010-9204-z#:~:text=Bentham%20defined%20happiness%20in%20terms,seen%20as%20contribution%20to%20happiness. 

Tom Waits “Hold On”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P5jV4lHHR0 

PJ Harvey “This Is Love”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STxXS5lLunE   

To be influential you do not require power, but wielding your influence is powerful. Vanessa Bohns, social psychologist and professor of organizational behavior at Cornell University, joins us to discuss her enticing new book “You Have More Influence Than You Think”. She draws from her research to illustrate why underestimating our influence can lead us to miss opportunities or worse yet, to misuse our power.

Vanessa challenges us to examine our powers of persuasion and to recognize that we have more influence than we even realize. We learn exactly why it’s so hard for us to say no, even when we’re uncomfortable with saying yes. And why we should focus on communicating more with people face-to-face.

As with all of our episodes, we leave you with a Grooving Session discussion focusing on how we can use Vanessa’s research to improve our lives, our relationships and our workplaces. Maybe this episode will influence you more than you realize? If it does, please support our ongoing work by contributing to our Patreon page at (just imagine, if we asked you in person, would you say yes?).

This is episode is republished from our discussion with Vanessa in 2021, but her research and insights have come up in our discussions time and time again. 

(3:19) Welcome to Vanessa Bohns.

(5:46) How your enjoyment of chocolate is influenced by others.

(8:15) The spotlight effect; is everyone really looking at me?

(12:34) How can we influence people more than we think?

(17:20) How Vanessa discovered people are likely to help, if you ask.

(23:34) Why it’s so much harder to say no than we think.

(26:50) How power amplifies your influence.

(29:22) Why we need to recognize white privilege as a position of power.

(32:47) Communication: why our choice of words matter.

(34:13) Robert Cialdini’s Influence.

(36:30) What are the most common misconceptions about influence?

(41:07) What are the 2 biggest takeaways from the book?

(43:52) How music has influenced Vanessa.

(49:13) Grooving Session discussing how to apply Vanessa’s research.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

“You Have More Influence Than You Think: How We Underestimate Our Power of Persuasion, and Why It Matters” Book by Vanessa Bohns: https://amzn.to/39vCDIN 

John Bargh, Episode 248: Do We Control Situations or Do Situations Control Us? With John Bargh: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/control-situations-with-john-bargh/

Shankar Vedantam, Episode 222: How Delusions Can Actually Be Useful: Shankar Vedantam Reveals How: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/shankar-vedantam-useful-delusions/

Cristina Bicchieri, Episode 102: Social Norms are Bundles of Expectations:  https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cristina-bicchieri-social-norms-are-bundles-of-expectations/

“Shared Experiences Are Amplified”  Erica J. Boothby, Margaret S. Clark, John A. Bargh (2014): https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614551162 

“Good Lamps Are the Best Police: Darkness Increases Dishonesty and Self-Interested Behavior” Chen-Bo Zhong, Vanessa K. Bohns, Francesca Gino (2010): https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797609360754 

Robert Frank on the Power of Peer Pressure in Fighting Climate Change: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmOUNgXKd0c&ab_channel=Rare 

Robert Cialdini, Episode 226: The Power Of Unity: Robert Cialdini Expands His Best Selling Book Influence: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cialdini-unity-in-influence/

How to Start a Movement | Dan Sivers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V74AxCqOTvg 

Bronksi Beats “Smalltown Boy”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88sARuFu-tc 

Sleigh Bells “Locust Laced”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzLOcmRRUfg 

The National “Light Years”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FQtSn_vak0 

Vampire Weekend “This Life”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwkrrU2WYKg 

David Bowie “Ashes to Ashes”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyMm4rJemtI 

Harry Styles “Watermelon Sugar”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKlD97TnYwM 

Billie Ellish “Everything I Wanted”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgBJmlPo8Xw 

Taylor Swift “Willow”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsEZmictANA 

Nirvana “Smells Like Teen Spirit”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTWKbfoikeg 

Working and parenting often feel like being pulled in two different directions. But what if we could reframe our thinking and actually appreciate that our experiences in one role can enhance the quality of life in the other. We explore the ways you can reframe your mindset with author and podcaster Yael Schonbrun.

“If we’re able to see that there are opportunities for our roles to feed each other, then we're more likely to to access those experiences and benefit more from them.” ~ Yael Schonbrun, Episode 346

Yael Schonbrun is an assistant professor of psychology at Brown University, a family therapist, and co-host of the podcast Psychologists Off the Clock. In her new book Work, Parent, Thrive: 12 Science-Backed Strategies to Ditch Guilt, Manage Overwhelm, and Grow Connection (When Everything Feels Like Too Much) Yael offers practical strategies from clinical psychology and social science to better manage the conflict and enhance enrichment in work, parenting, and the balance of these meaningful roles. 

Regular listeners will have noticed that co-host of the show, Tim Houlihan is unfortunately off sick for a few episodes of Behavioral Grooves. So on this episode, producer of the show, Mary Kaliff, joins Kurt Nelson for the discussion with Yael. Listeners can jump on social media (Twitter: @THoulihan or LinkedIn) and wish Tim a speedy recovery.

We hope this episode provides you with some practical tools to help you work, parent and thrive. If you do enjoy Behavioral Grooves, please write a short review of the show on your podcast player. Just sharing a short sentence about why you like the show can make it easier for other people to find the podcast.

(3:32) Welcome and speed round questions.

(8:33) Why parenting is difficult even for experts.

(12:07) How a mindset shift can change how we view our parenting and our work.

(16:00) The questions you can ask yourself to change your mindset.

(19:22) How Yael tapped into her own personal values during a difficult time.

(24:46) Pains live right alongside gains.

(29:32) How Jewish kibbutz communities raised children.

(32:42) Why we need to quit the things that aren’t working.

(36:36) How to nurture more independence in our children. 

(40:03) The 3 components of self compassion.

(45:34) Modeling the behavior that you want your kids to develop.

(46:54) What music would Yael take to a desert island?

(48:54) Grooving Session with Kurt and Mary on working, parenting and thriving.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Yael Schonbrun: https://yaelschonbrun.com/ 

Yael’s book, “Work, Parent, Thrive: 12 Science-Backed Strategies to Ditch Guilt, Manage Overwhelm, and Grow Connection (When Everything Feels Like Too Much)”: https://amzn.to/3IVEzNk 

Growth mindset, Carol Dweck: “Mindset: The New Psychology of Success”: https://amzn.to/3J7V9tD 

Episode 327, A Proven Way Expectations Can Unlock A More Positive Life | David Robson: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/expectations-and-a-positive-life/ 

Episode 345, The Tools You Need To Embrace Uncertainty | Nathan and Susannah Harmon Furr: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/tools-to-embrace-uncertainty/ 

Episode 342: Why Resilience Is More Than Just Bouncing Back | Gabriella Rosen Kellerman MD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/resilience-more-than-bouncing-back/ 

Weird Al Yankovic “Another One Rides The Bus”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79QxturUolo 

Taylor Swift “Midnight Rain”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odh9ddPUkEY 

We all face uncertainty at some point in our lives. But do we embrace it or resist it? Our thoughts about uncertainty and ambiguity shape the actions we take when we are faced with change. If we reframe how we view uncertainty, we can rewrite the story we tell ourselves.

“The way we describe something to ourselves and others, shapes how we think, decide and act.”

Our guests on this episode are the most delightful husband and wife team, Nathan Furr and Susannah Harmon Furr who have written a fantastic book together, “The Upside of Uncertainty: A Guide to Finding Possibility in the Unknown”.

Ironically recording this episode has been plagued with uncertainty. Our first attempt, last summer, was bugged with audio issues, and since then we have faced a number of technical glitches. When we finally got a chance to sit down and re-record an interview with them recently, it unfortunately fell at a time that our own Tim Houlihan was unable to join the conversation due to illness. So Kurt Nelson embraced the uncertainty and flew solo on this interview!

We learn from Nathan and Susannah about the types of uncertainty and some of the tools that they have devised to overcome those periods of our lives when everything seems unsure. We know you’ll take away a lot from this discussion, and we encourage you to also read their book which is packed full of useful advice.

One thing we are certain about at Behavioral Grooves is how much we appreciate and rely on the support of you, our wonderful listeners. If you feel able, please join our growing community of Patreon supporters.

(2:25) Welcome and speed round questions.

(8:20) How achievers step into uncertainty.

(11:05) Planned uncertainty vs. unplanned uncertainty. 

(14:30) Uncertainty and possibility are two sides of the same coin.

(21:32) Some of the tools to overcome uncertainty.

(27:54) The possibility quotient. 

(33:22) How do uncertainty balancers counteract the unknown? 

(36:09) Why we should take more risks with options that inspire us.

(39:32) Breaking down big uncertainties into small steps.

(44:31) Don’t wait until all the pieces are in place.

(47:36) The sustaining tools to help when you need a boost.

(50:38) How emotional hygiene can help you face the ups and downs of uncertainty.

(52:43) The UP School.

(55:13) The musical experience that changed Nathan’s life.

(1:00:54) Grooving Session with Kurt on grabbling with uncertainty.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Nathan and Susannah’s book “The Upside of Uncertainty: A Guide to Finding Possibility in the Unknown”: https://amzn.to/3ZiuXBv 

UP: https://www.theupsideofuncertainty.com/ 

UP School: https://www.theupsideofuncertainty.com/learn 

Buckminster Fuller: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller 

Reconstructed Living Labs (RLabs): https://rlabs.org/ 

Guy Winch, emotional hygiene: https://www.ted.com/talks/guy_winch_why_we_all_need_to_practice_emotional_first_aid?language=en 

Vincenzo Lamagna’s adaption of Giselle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27lgUp_FboE&ab_channel=VariousArtists-Topic 

If you want to incentivize an outcome, don’t just focus on the final reward, hone in on the behavior that will drive the result. Whether we’re motivating our employees, our kids or ourselves, we can all benefit from learning how to effectively drive behavior.

“ Incentives drive behavior. So if you don't get the behaviors right, that's where incentives go off the rail.” ~ James Castello, Episode 344

Our guest on this episode is James Castello, Vice President of Field Operations and Incentive Compensation Practices at TGaS Advisors. TGaS Advisors is one of the leading consultancies focused on the pharmaceutical industry.  They provide insights and real world knowledge to hundreds of the leading life science companies around the world. 

While this episode is focused on how incentives can be created effectively to reach sales targets, the takeaways from the discussion with Jim can be applied to many aspects of our lives. Be sure to join Kurt and Tim in the Grooving Session in the last portion of the episode, as they summarize the most applicable aspects of the interview.

(6:25) Welcome and speed round question.

(8:32) Collaboration is just a means to an end.

(10:49) Incentives drive behavior.

(13:44) The influence of the pandemic on incentives.

(17:25) How do you align incentives with behaviors?

(20:05) The importance of language in incentives.

(25:14) What exactly is goal setting?

(33:04) Breaking goals into manageable chunks to remove objections.

(38:54) Do contests work well for driving sales?

(47:00) What music would Jim take to a desert island?

(51:02) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim discussing incentives.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Brain/Shift Journal Shopify: https://www.100behaviors.com/products/the-brain-shift-journal-volume-1

Brain/Shift Journal Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Brain-Shift-Journal-1/dp/B0BN2JZBJ2/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=brain+shift&qid=1670950820&sr=8-1

James Castello: https://trinitylifesciences.com/our-experts/james-castello/ 

T-GaS Advisors: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tgas-advisors/ 

100th Episode of Behavioral Grooves: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-100th-episode-celebration-in-philadelphia/ 

Lake Wobegon Effect: https://psychology.fandom.com/wiki/Lake_Wobegon_effect 

Bob Dylan “Like a Rollin’ Stone”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwOfCgkyEj0 

AC/DC “It's a Long Way to the Top (If You Wanna Rock 'N' Roll)“: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj_rvLVpqg8&ab_channel=AC%2FDC-Topic 

Metallica “Enter Sandman”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD-E-LDc384 

First impressions matter but when it comes to dating, don't get blown away by the myth of the "relationship spark". Some people can instead be characterized as a "slow burn"; a person who you like more and more each time. We revisit an episode with dating coach, behavioral scientist and author of How Not To Die Alone, Logan Ury about how to date successfully.

Logan Ury studied psychology at Harvard, was a TED Fellow, then became a behavioral scientist at Google, where she ran Google’s behavioral science team – which we now know as The Irrational Lab. She became a dating coach and is currently the Director of Relationship Science at the dating app Hinge, where she leads a research team dedicated to helping people find love. Her work has appeared in The New York Times and The Atlantic, among a variety of media outlets, including HBO and the BBC. 

Aside from those cool things, we wanted to talk to her because she is the author of How To Not Die Alone.

In our conversation with Logan, which was originally recorded in early 2021, we talk about the challenges people face in getting prepared for dating, making the most of their dating experiences, and maintaining great relationships once they’ve landed in one. She shared her insights into how to overcome some of the common hurdles and to make the most out of each phase of the dating life.

We had an interesting discussion about why moving from ‘romanticizer’ or ‘maximizer’ to ‘satisficer’ can make a big difference in your relationships (and in life). We talk about the Monet Effect and how we need to work hard to overcome some of our biggest biases – like the fundamental attribution error and negativity bias.

She was also kind enough to share a little bit about her communal living conditions and her recommendation that we all need more significant others – OSO’s – in these turbulent times.

NOTE #1: The “F” word features prominently in our conversation since it’s in the title of one of her book’s chapters.

NOTE #2: Christina Gravert joined for our Grooving Session as our first-ever Grooving Partner, and you’ll hear her in the introduction, as well. We’re pleased that our good friend was named by Forbes magazine as one of the top behavioral scientists you ought to know. Christina teaches Economics at the University of Copenhagen, is a co-founder of Impactually, a behavioral consultancy, she has been a guest on Behavioral Grooves (episode 16 on creating a Nudge-A-Thon), and was a speaker at Nudge.It North 2021.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Logan Ury: https://www.loganury.com/

“How to Not Die Alone”: https://amzn.to/3JSmDUz 

Ira Glass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_Glass

Dan Ariely: https://danariely.com/

Esther Perel: https://www.estherperel.com/

John Gottman, The Gottman Institute: https://www.gottman.com/

Eli Finkel: https://elifinkel.com/

Daniel Gilbert: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Gilbert_(psychologist)

Jane Ebert: https://www.brandeis.edu/facultyguide/person.html?emplid=0fd6834b65b0eddec69f2ab77539fd341d63b270

Alain De Botton “School of Life”: https://www.theschooloflife.com/about-us/faculty/alain-de-botton/

Reiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reiki

“Algorithms to Live By”: https://algorithmstoliveby.com/

John Nash “A Beautiful Mind”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash_Jr.

Nicole Prause: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicole_Prause

36 Questions That Lead to Love: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/09/style/no-37-big-wedding-or-small.html

The School of Life books: https://www.theschooloflife.com/shop/us/books/

Shelley Archambeau – Episode 204: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-shelley-archambeau-flies-like-an-eagle/

Christina Gravert – Episode 16: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/nudge-a-thon-with-dr-christina-gravert/

Christina Gravert, “Online Dating Like a Game Theorist”: https://behavioralscientist.org/online-dating-like-a-game-theorist/

Christina Gravert – Impactually: https://impactually.se/

“10 Behavioral Scientists You Should Know”: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alineholzwarth/2020/10/29/10-behavioral-scientists-you-should-know/?sh=36ad80b442e0 

“Hamilton” soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPSWZUExZ8M 

Chance the Rapper “Coloring Book”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeChAs-bI3A 

Bush “Glycerine”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvXbHN5Gijw%C2%A0 

There are actually 5 drivers of resilience; optimism, self compassion, cognitive agility, self efficacy and emotional regulation. We dive deep into each of these components and how they play a part in being resilient, with our guest Gabriella Rosen Kellerman MD.

Gabriella is a medical doctor and behavioral science researcher with training in psychiatry and fMRI research. She currently works as Chief Product Officer at BetterUp – a company focused on employee wellbeing. But today’s episode is dedicated to talking about her latest venture - co-writing a new book with none other than the “the father of positive psychology” Martin SeligmanPhD. 

Their book, Tomorrowmind: Thriving at Work with Resilience, Creativity, and Connection―Now and in an Uncertain Future is a hopeful look at how to flourish in an uncertain world. By capitalizing on a Tomorrowmind, we can utilize the universal psychological skills for thriving in an uncertain future: resilience and cognitive agility; mattering and purpose; rapid rapport for social support; prospection; and creativity and innovation (PRISM).

Join our insightful and thoughtful conversation with Gabriella to learn how we can adopt a tomorrowmind. And then stick around for our Grooving Session where Tim discusses the part of the interview that sent chills up his spine, and Kurt gets philosophical about what it means to be optimistic.

(3:24) Welcome and speed round questions.

(5:58) What is a Tomorrowmind?

(7:26) Why are creativity and prospection superpowers?

(10:05) The phases of prospective thinking.

(13:11) Why the right answer can be to ask a different question.

(15:45) What is positivity resonance and why does it matter?

(21:32) What are the consequences of time famine on connection?

(23:17) A story of resilience - Aggie Dunn of Heinz.

(26:55) What exactly does it mean to be resilient?

(29:31) How does self compassion play a part in resilience?

(31:53) The 5 building blocks of resilience.

(34:40) Writing a book with Martin Seligman.

(36:56) What music does Gabriella listen to at home?

(39:40) Grooving Session with Tim and Kurt on Tomorrowmind.

Tomorrowmind: Thriving at Work with Resilience, Creativity, and Connection―Now and in an Uncertain Future: https://amzn.to/3jnu9Mt 

Episode 31, Leaving the Matrix: Annie Duke and Insights into how you can improve your thinking! https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/leaving-the-matrix-annie-duke-and-insights-into-how-you-can-improve-your-thinking/ 

Episode 225, Behind NOISE and Beyond The Book: Linnea Gandhi Shares her New Course on Noise: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/behind-noise-linnea-gandhi/ 

Episode 283, Is The Anus Really The Key To All Intelligent Life? | Henry Gee: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/anus-the-key-to-intelligent-life/ 

Growth After Trauma by Richard G. Tedeschi: https://hbr.org/2020/07/growth-after-trauma 

Episode 214, Observing the Non-Obvious: How to Spot Trends Around You with Rohit Bhargava: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-non-obvious-rohit-bhargava/ 

Nickel creek “Reasons Why”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lyZQB1H_Zw 

Bach “Piano Concerto in D Minor”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_yGiFHbQR0 

Pharrell Williams “Happy”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbZSe6N_BXs 

“Brands really matter, when and only when they matter to consumers. And this is fundamentally a question of human connection.” ~ Matt Johnson

To get under the skin of how branding works, what makes it effective and how to build a successful brand, we talk with Matt Johnson PhD, who is an expert on the human side of business. Matt is a speaker, researcher, and writer specializing in the application of psychology and neuroscience to marketing. We discuss everything from the difference of brand strategy, brand personality and brand meaning, all the way to how brands can get involved in activism.

“What determines if you're a great brand is if your values and your attributes and your characteristics resonate with your target market.” ~ Matt Johnson

Our conversation doesn’t just appeal to marketers, however. In our usual lighthearted style, Kurt and Tim touch on Matt’s love of Arsenal, his appreciation for pumpkin spice lattes, and the music that helps him come up with creative ideas. 

As a former guest on Behavioral Grooves, we are delighted to welcome Matt back to discuss branding and marketing. Matt’s recent book, “Branding that Means Business: How to Build Enduring Bonds between Brands, Consumers and Markets” which is co-written with Tessa Misiaszek, provides a really informative overview of the application of marketing in organizations. Listen in to this episode to get a flavor for the expertise that Matt brings to his field.

Behavioral Grooves relies on the support of listeners. If you’d like to be part of the community of supporters of the show, please visit our Patreon page. 

(5:27) Welcome and speed round questions.

(11:48) Why branding is at a crossroads now.

(15:30) What is the difference between brand strategy, brand personality and brand meaning?

(18:45) Why are some brands better at connecting with people?

(25:39) The intersection of neuroscience and marketing.

(27:47) Why Matt thinks we should steer away from the word consumer.

(30:20) How the communication landscape has changed branding.

(34:21) Social identity in branding.

(37:45) How brands can play a part in activism without becoming tribal.

(45:51) Can brands break through the noise?

(48:26) What music would Matt take to a desert island?

(53:10) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim discussing branding.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Behavioral Grooves on LinkedIn: Behavioral Grooves

Behavioral Grooves on Twitter: @behavioralgroov

Behavioral Grooves on YouTube: Behavioral Grooves

Behavioral Grooves on Instagram: @behavioralgrooves

Behavioral Grooves on Facebook: Behavioral Grooves

Send Behavioral Grooves an Email: [email protected] 

Support Behavioral Grooves on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

Matt’s book, co-written with Tessa Misiaszek, “Branding that Means Business: How to Build Enduring Bonds between Brands, Consumers and Markets”: https://amzn.to/3Jk2zdL 

Matt’s blog “Neuroscience Of”: https://www.neuroscienceof.com/branding-blog

Episode 177, Matt Johnson & Prince Ghuman on Mid-Liminal Marketing and the Ethics of Applied Neuroscience: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/matt-johnson-prince-ghuman-on-mid-liminal-marketing-and-the-ethics-of-applied-neuroscience/ 

Episode 235, Make Choice Rewarding: Behavioral Insights in Marketing with Matthew Willcox: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/marketing-matthew-willcox/ 

The Beatles “Don’t Let Me Down”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCtzkaL2t_Y 

Pierre Boulez “Livres Pour Cordes”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omeOdqO05W4&ab_channel=EuroArtsChannel 

Context heavily influences our behavior (regular listeners of the show know our “context matters” mantra well!). Sometimes, because of what life throws at us, we have to re-evaluate our options. The best choice isn’t always the perfect choice.

For instance, in an ideal world, we might be planning a 5 mile run after work. But instead we need to collect our sick child from school early and have to settle for a 2 mile run on the treadmill in the basement, or some dancing in the kitchen while we unload the dishwasher. It’s the perfect, imperfect choice, or what our guest, Michelle Segar calls The Joy Choice.

Michelle Segar PhD is an award-winning lifestyle coach and sustainable behavior change researcher at the University of Michigan. For nearly three decades, she has pioneered methods to create sustainable healthy behavior change that are being used to boost patient health, employee well-being, and gym membership retention.

“My approach to creating sustainable change is fundamentally grounded in changing people's mindsets.” ~ Michelle Segar PhD

In this episode, we are lucky enough to talk to Michelle about her new book, “The Joy Choice: How to Finally Achieve Lasting Changes in Eating and Exercise”. We discuss why Michelle steers away from habits as a way of framing behavior change, the role of the executive function, and of course, how music influences her life.

(3:20) Welcome and speed round questions.

(7:31) Why we all need to find The Joy Choice.

(14:26) Why do we beat ourselves up about missing exercise and diet goals?

(17:35) How our identity can motivate our behavior change.

(20:22) The shortcomings of the habit loop.

(25:10) The role of the executive function in our decision making.

(30:45) To what degree do mindsets, belief systems and branding play?

(35:58) How the TRAP and POP models help us with selecting The Joy Choice.

(43:36) How Michelle finds joy in music.

(48:02) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on The Joy Choice.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Michelle Segar: https://michellesegar.com/ 

Michelle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellelsegar/

“The Joy Choice: How to Finally Achieve Lasting Changes in Eating and Exercise”: https://amzn.to/3GTve6m 

It’s Time to Unhabit and Think Critically About Whether Habit Formation Has Been Over Valued as a Behavior Change Strategy Within Health Promotion: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/08901171221125326f 

Episode 277, No Regrets? Really? Why Regrets Actually Bring Us Hope | Daniel H. Pink: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-regrets-bring-us-hope/ 

 Episode 327, A Proven Way Expectations Can Unlock A More Positive Life | David Robson: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-regrets-bring-us-hope/ 

Episode 307, Groove Track | Mind Over Milkshakes: Why Expectations Matter A Lot: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/mind-over-milkshakes-groove-track/

Zingermans in Ann Arbor, MI: https://www.zingermansdeli.com/ 

Earth, wind and fire “September”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs069dndIYk 

Ever need to read a book in a hurry? How can you absorb the most relevant content in a short period of time? Join Kurt and Tim as they talk to their friend Christian Hunt of the Human Risk Podcast, for tips and tricks to read quickly and effectively.

We’ve all been stuck with a last minute deadline that involves getting through a large amount of reading material. How do you approach it? As podcasters, we read a lot of content before interviewing the guests. So how do Kurt and Tim from Behavioral Grooves Podcast and Christian from the Human Risk Podcast tackle such a mammoth task.

This is a special episode for Behavioral Grooves that was recorded a few months ago in Abbey Road studios when Kurt and Tim were in London, UK. Christian has joined us many times on the podcast so we enjoyed talking about a different topic on this episode.

(4:15) What to look for when you open the book - Kurt. 

(8:54) Christian on why it’s not always good to speed read the whole book.

(12:19) What Tim’s “Kahneman Index” is exactly!

(14:10) How speed reading a research paper is different from a book.

(20:22) The top 2 tips on speed reading from Christian, Kurt and Tim.

Episode 86, Christian Hunt: Mitigating Human Risk and The Algorithmic Mind: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/christian-hunt-mitigating-human-risk-and-the-algorithmic-mind/ 

Episode 336, The Best Behavioral Science Books Of 2022 (According to Kurt and Tim!): https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/best-2022-behavioral-science-books/ 

Episode 277, Daniel H. Pink - No Regrets? Really? Why Regrets Actually Bring Us Hope: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-regrets-bring-us-hope/

Small changes can have big effects. Standing on a different set of scales can affect our weight loss journey and adding friction to the share button online can reduce the spread of misinformation. Find out from Irrational Lab’s Managing Director, Evelyn Gosnell how they are researching the behavioral insights that make a big difference in the world.

Evelyn Gosnell is a frequent speaker in behavioral economics and consumer psychology. She is an expert in helping companies use the science of decision-making to better understand how real people think and behave, thereby creating better products and services for them. Evelyn and her team at Irrational Labs are using behavioral science to solve some of the big, wicked problems that plague us - from obesity to misinformation.

In our discussion with Evelyn, we also touch on the application of behavioral science in organizations and why you don’t need a PhD to transform yourself into a Behavioral Product Manager.

One of the best takeaways from the interview is the 3B Framework that anyone can use to unlock behavior change: 

• Define the behavior
• Reduce barriers 
• Increase benefits

We really hope you enjoy our conversation with Evelyn. If you did, we'd really like you to consider supporting the production of Behavioral Grooves, through our Patreon page. Or if you’d like a cost free way of supporting the podcast, please write a review of the show on your podcast app. Thanks!

(2:24) Welcome and speed round questions.

(4:09) Using behavioral science to lose weight.

(11:17) How Irrational Labs researched weight loss programs.

(15:47) Reducing spread of misinformation on TikTok.

(26:06) The 3B Framework to unlock behavior change in organizations.

(34:47) How Evelyn’s childhood has influenced her relationship with music.

(37:41) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim discussing Evelyn’s interview.

© 2023 Behavioral Grooves

Evelyn Gosnell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evelyn-gosnell-behavioral-design/ and Twitter: https://twitter.com/evelyngosnell 

Irrational Labs: https://irrationallabs.com/ 

Burning Man: https://burningman.org/ 

Shapa: https://home.myshapa.com/

“Bringing Users Back to the Forefront: 3 Sustainable User Engagement Tips from Behavioral Science” by Evelyn Gosnell: https://irrationallabs.com/blog/putting-back-users-to-the-forefront-sustainable-engagement-tips-from-behavioral-science/ 

“How behavioral science reduced the spread of misinformation on TikTok”: https://irrationallabs.com/case-studies/tiktok-how-behavioral-science-reduced-the-spread-of-misinformation/ 

The 3B Framework to unlock behavior change: https://irrationallabs.com/3bs-download/ 

“TytoCare Case Study: How Can We Encourage People to Complete Virtual Medical Visits?“: https://irrationallabs.com/case-studies/tytocare-virtual-medical-visits/ 

“Move Over, Product Manager: Introducing the Behavioral Product Manager”: https://irrationallabs.com/blog/move-over-product-manager-introducing-the-behavioral-product-manager/  

Brain/Shift Journal Shopify: https://www.100behaviors.com/products/the-brain-shift-journal-volume-1

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

Finding your groove - ever wondered what that actually means? And why is this podcast really called Behavioral Grooves?! Kurt and Tim explain what it means to get in your groove and the 3 foundational steps that will help you get there. If you need to find your groove again in 2023, listen to this expert advice.

It’s a long running joke on the podcast, that when settling on the name “Behavioral Grooves” for the show it meant two different things to hosts Kurt and Tim. While getting “in the groove” has parallels to being in a state of flow or routine, musical Tim equates it to being absorbed in a melodic rhythm. While finding your groove in your work, and getting your musical “groove on” could be seen as two opposing interpretations of the phrase, Kurt and Tim expertly weave them together in this episode. 

“Our life is made up of a playlist of many, many songs with many different keys and many different rhythms and many different tempos.”

~ Tim Houlihan, Episode 337

After identifying what finding your groove actually means, we discuss the three factors that help us get there:

1. Mindset
2. Rhythm
3. Environment

In a refreshing exchange which veers away from our normal New Year episode on setting goals and forming new habits, Kurt and Tim will help you find your groove in 2023. How appropriate that the first Grooving Session of the year is on how to get your groove back!

Scaling behavioral science initiatives from a small research study to a large population is a topic we have enjoyed delving into this year with John A. List in Episode 296. And we are delighted to be joined on this episode by Neela Saldanha PhD who focuses her work on developing the science around scaling policy interventions.  

Neela is the Executive Director of the Yale Research Initiative on Innovation and Scale (Y-RISE) which focuses on researching complexities of scaling policy interventions and bringing together global experts to overcome the challenges of scaling. Her work history touches academia, non-profits and the private sector, as well as spanning the globe, including India and the US.

We are grateful to Neela for giving us time to discuss her work on this episode. Our ongoing production of the Behavioral Grooves Podcast is gratefully aided by our Patreon members. If you have enjoyed listening to Behavioral Grooves in 2022, please consider donating to our work through the Behavioral Grooves Patreon page. We also love reading reviews of the podcast, which in turn, helps others find our content.

(3:37) Welcome and speed round questions.

(8:01) Neela’s work at Y-RISE.

(12:12) The challenges of scaling research findings.

(20:16) Applying behavioral science tools in the field of behavioral science.

(23:40) The bottlenecks to applying behavioral science in organizations.

(27:51) What are the WICKED problems that need to be solved?

(38:00) Music Neela would take to a desert island.

(40:33) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim discussing Neela’s interview.

© 2022 Behavioral Grooves

Neela Saldanha: https://neelasaldanha.com/ 

Yale Research Initiative on Innovation and Scale (Y-RISE) at Yale University: https://yrise.yale.edu/ 

“Behavioral Science in the Wild (Behaviorally Informed Organizations)”: https://amzn.to/3xxAD04

David Yokum PhD, Episode 282: Why Applying Behavioral Science to Public Policy Delivers Better Policy: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/behavioral-science-in-public-policy/ 

John A. List, Episode 296. Fail to Scale: Why Good Research Doesn’t Always Make Great Policy | John A. List:  https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/fail-to-scale-john-a-list/ 

John A. List’s book, “The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale”: https://amzn.to/3a0GOjh

Episode 289, Why Not All Nudges Work ”In The Wild” | Nina Mazar PhD & Dilip Soman PhD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-not-all-nudges-work-in-the-wild-nina-mazar-dilip-soman/ 

Diversifi: https://www.diversifiglobal.com/ 

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

Beethoveen’s 9th Symphony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkQapdgAa7o&ab_channel=OsloPhilharmonic 

Beethoven’s 5th Symphony oboe solo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8axcI1K1I1U 

R.D. Burdman Bollywood hits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QE2NsbDM0M 

One of the ways we find our groove is through knowledge – sometimes new ideas, sometimes repeated ideas that are presented in new ways. Sometimes, it’s just reminders of old ideas that deserve a new look. And we love the fresh ideas that we’ve read about this year in the very notable Behavioral Science books of 2022.

Kurt and Tim sit down, in this episode, to discuss the highlights of the books they’ve read in 2022. To save you some time, they have compiled a summary of why they liked each book, and what you can expect to get from reading it.

We’d love to hear about your favorite books of the year. What stood out for you on your book shelf? Have any of your reads this year helped you find your groove? Share your thoughts with Behavioral Grooves on social media:

Twitter: @behavioralgroov

LinkedIn: Behavioral Grooves

Instagram: @behavioralgrooves

Facebook: Behavioral Grooves

Robert Livingston, “The Conversation: How Talking Honestly About Racism Can Transform Individuals and Organizations”: https://amzn.to/3j1tYGb 

David McRaney, “How Minds Change: The Surprising Science of Belief, Opinion, and Persuasion”: https://amzn.to/3NvGMPp

Henry Gee, “A (Very) Short History of Life on Earth: 4.6 Billion Years in 12 Pithy Chapters”: https://amzn.to/3I8HH4W

Annie Duke, “Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away”: https://amzn.to/3z47JEP

Ayelet Fishbach, “Get It Done: Surprising Lessons from the Science of Motivation”: https://amzn.to/3f3ooh4

Seth Stephens-Davidowitz, “Don’t Trust Your Gut: Using Data to Get What You Really Want in Life”: https://amzn.to/3yICKwT

John A. List, “The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale”: https://amzn.to/3a0GOjh

Daniel Pink, “The Power Of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward”: https://amzn.to/3gpU1C9

Jennifer Moss, “The Burnout Epidemic: The Rise of Chronic Stress and How We Can Fix It”: https://amzn.to/3K3O4be

Jonathan Malesic, “The End of Burnout: Why Work Drains Us and How to Build Better Lives”: https://amzn.to/3tDdS8j

Max Bazerman, “Complicit: How We Enable the Unethical and How to Stop”: https://amzn.to/3UKjfNJ

Dolly Chugh, “A More Just Future: Psychological Tools for Reckoning with Our Past and Driving Social Change “: https://amzn.to/3Cgs9eq

Linda Babcock, “The No Club: Putting a Stop to Women’s Dead-End Work”: https://amzn.to/3KPuUFM 

Nina Mazar & Dilip Soman, “Behavioral Science in the Wild (Behaviorally Informed Organizations)”: https://amzn.to/3xxAD04

Zoe Chance, “Influence Is Your Superpower: The Science of Winning Hearts, Sparking Change, and Making Good Things Happen”: https://amzn.to/3EYKXOz

Sam Tatam, “Evolutionary Ideas: Unlocking ancient innovation to solve tomorrow’s challenges“: https://amzn.to/3I6ANwX

Paul Bloom, “The Sweet Spot: The Pleasures of Suffering and the Search for Meaning”: https://amzn.to/3Kmpweh 

Episode 270, The Behavioral Science Books We Just Couldn’t Put Down in 2021 With Louise Ward: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/best-behavioral-science-books-2021/ 

Episode 194, The 10 Best Behavioral Science Books for 2020: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/10-best-behavioral-science-books/ 

Want to start a journaling habit but worried you won't stay motivated? Having the right journal, that is designed using behavioral insights to keep you engaged, is the key.

In this unique Grooving Session, our very own Kurt Nelson takes the hot seat along with his Lantern Group business partner, Ben Granlund to talk about their highly anticipated new product - the Brain/Shift Journal. This new journal is seeped in behavioral insights that help you clearly define and then actually reach your goals.

Previous Behavioral Grooves guest, Katy Milkman, has highlighted that a distinct time in the calendar, like the New Year, is a great time for a fresh start when you can embrace a new habit. And journaling is a popular daily practice that is known to enhance your wellbeing and focus your energy on reaching your goals.

In this episode, you will learn:

• How the Brain/Shift journal came about.
• Who the journal is for.
• What you can expect to get out of using it.

Whether you are new to journaling, or you have tried before but couldn't keep up the habit, the Brain/Shift journal can help you. It makes a perfect gift for yourself or someone you love at Christmas.

Brain/Shift Journal Shopify: https://www.100behaviors.com/products/the-brain-shift-journal-volume-1

Brain/Shift Journal Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Brain-Shift-Journal-1/dp/B0BN2JZBJ2/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=brain+shift&qid=1670950820&sr=8-1

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/100behaviors