In this episode of the Church Disrupted podcast, Jeff Cochran welcomes back Natalie Runion to discuss her latest book, 'The House that Jesus Built.' They explore the dangers of building on shifting sand, shepherds versus CEOs in church leadership, and the critical need for transparency and accountability within the church. Natalie and Jeff also discuss the importance of navigating disagreements with grace, the power of listening as a ministry, and the need for a healthy church culture that supports individuals leaving the church. Get Natalie's books and follow her work here: https://www.instagram.com/raisedtostay/ Want to support SAI financially? https://donorbox.org/sai-initial-funding-campaign Find out more about the Spiritual Abuse Institute and the Church Disrupted Podcast at https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/. Join the church disrupted COMMUNITY here: https://discord.gg/nbWwg8Sz6Z Learn more about the Safe Church Pledge Here: https://www.spiritualabuse.institute/safechurchpledge Please Subscribe and Share! Chapters 00:00 Intro 02:24 Returning to the Blueprint: The House That Jesus Built 05:34 The Dangers of Building on Shifting Sand 12:06 The Role of Leadership: Shepherds vs. CEOs 18:34 Financial Transparency in the Church 30:08 Accountability and Trust in Church Finances 37:06 The Widow's Mite: A Misunderstood Teaching 45:40 Social Media Backlash: The Green Room Controversy 51:14 The Impact of Financial Security on Pastoral Care 01:00:20 Listening as a Spiritual Superpower 01:05:12 Navigating Church Transitions: Leaving Well