269: Gross Lees in the Barrel | Ask Ryan 2021

The Ask Ryan Series is back!

In Spring of 2020 the first Ask Ryan series with Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider was posted. This year we return with Ryan once again to dive into more  cidermaking questions. In this segment we return to more questions about oak barrels and cider and the technique known as Bâtonnage.

The question:

Is it okay for gross lees stay in the barrel or is it a good idea to rack out the cider into another barrel to get it off of the gross lees? Ryan Monkman

Gross Lees Defined

The sediment that forms on the bottom before fermentation is generally called Gross Lees.

Considering this definition then, once the apples are pressed and before they go into the barrel there can be a drop of the heavy particles in the apple juice before it ferments. Sooo, it could be said that the gross lees are not in the barrel to begin with...or are they?

Heavy Solid Ferments at FieldBird Cider

20% of the ciders that FieldBird makes is done so on the gross lees

Dangers of Gross lees and how to manage

The danger is that heavy solids bind with oxygen

Cure: Manage the oxygen

FieldBird does a rack and return with some of the ciders. This in turn helps with reduction

When to do the Rack and Return?

• Track the ferment during alcohol fermentation
• Macro-oxygenation (Macro-Ox) is a technique where one intentionally over oxidizing juice before fermentation

Ryan's Recommendations and Readings on the topic of oxygen and Bret management

Book:

• Post Modern Winemaking
  • This link above is an affiliate link that cost you nothing to click onto but may provide a kick back to Cider Chat.
• Ryan recommends getting an oil free air compressor for the hobbyist
  • At FieldBird, they use Food Grade Oxygen

Contact for Ryan Monkman at FieldBird Cider

• website: https://www.fieldbird.ca/
• Instagram 
  • FieldBird https://www.instagram.com/fieldbird.cider/
  • Ryan Monkman https://www.instagram.com/rgmonkman/
• Listen to past episodes with Ryan Monkman
  • AskRyan Quarantine Quad series 2020  
    • Part 1
    • Part 2 
    • Part 3
    • Part 4

  • 131: Cider Barrels with a Cooper, a Maker & Thierry Lemaire

    132: Barrels & Bâtonnage

    168: Barrel Aging Cider Inspiration

Mentions in this Chat

• Marcel's cidery in the Netherlands http://www.degerdeneer.nl
• A new 2021 book on cidermakers in the Netherlands http://hethamerstuk.nl/boek-ambachtelijke-cider/
• CraftCon2021 - April 29th & 30th 2021
  • A virtual two day conference based in the UK
• Grazed Knee Cider | Isle of Wight
• Fermentis by Lesaffre -
  • Q&A #17 What causes a stuck fermentation?
  • Two upcoming Ferementis seminars
    • May 20th - Session 1 for craft and industrial:https://www.edudip.com/en/webinar/exploring-the-diversity-of-yeast-strains-and-fermentation-conditions-for-different-cider-styles-session-1/1135676May 27th - Session 2 for home cider makers:https://www.edudip.com/en/webinar/exploring-the-diversity-of-yeast-strains-and-fermentation-conditions-for-different-cider-styles-session-2/1135696