Conversations

Jon, Spider, Michael and Ruairi return to the dinner table at The Gift Shop

Produced by Graham Cruser

Edited & Mixed by Dylan Seals


www.verbell.ltd

"Conversations Theme" 
Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers
Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg
Piano: George Hazelrigg 
Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg
Drums: John O’Reilly Jr.
Mixed by Jon Castelli

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals


http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" 
Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers
Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg
Piano: George Hazelrigg 
Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg
Drums: John O’Reilly Jr.
Mixed by Jon Castelli

Spider, Ruairi and Michael recap their workshop with Brain Hansen and ask "What are we in service of?"

.....

http://www.convos.at Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals


http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" 
Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers
Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg
Piano: George Hazelrigg 
Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg
Drums: John O’Reilly Jr.
Mixed by Jon Castelli

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals


http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" 
Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers
Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg
Piano: George Hazelrigg 
Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg
Drums: John O’Reilly Jr.
Mixed by Jon Castelli

Jon, Spider, Michael and Ruairi workshop Brian Hansen from Atlanta, GA 

https://www.briandanehansen.com

.....

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals
http://www.hdaudiopost.com "Conversations Theme" 
Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers
Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg
Piano: George Hazelrigg 
Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg
Drums: John O’Reilly Jr.
Mixed by Jon Castelli

Dale Becker joins Jon, Spider and Ruairi at the table and Michael on the road.

Some of what was discussed:

- Artfully not doing your job

- Coming up in a musical household

- Loving the work too much

- Avoiding stagnation and complacency

- Pride in building a team

- New rules of mastering

.....

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg Piano: George Hazelrigg Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg Drums: John O’Reilly Jr. Mixed by Jon Castelli

- Jon debriefs on his first recording session for years

- J Cole's new record and work ethic

- Is America in a toxic relationship with work?

- A vision for a more fulfilling work life

- Building the Conversations community and the plan for next few months

.....

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg Piano: George Hazelrigg Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg Drums: John O’Reilly Jr. Mixed by Jon Castelli

With Michael on the road and Jon tied up in session Spider and Ruairi take stock.

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http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg Piano: George Hazelrigg Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg Drums: John O’Reilly Jr. Mixed by Jon Castelli

In our first AMA episode the team answer questions from community members Anthony Puglisi, Eduardo (Edu Same), Edsel Holden, Will Reeves, Wavy.Maine, Jordan Velarde, Gerhard Westphalen, Jared Masters and Lorenz Hannerer.

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http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg Piano: George Hazelrigg Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg Drums: John O’Reilly Jr. Mixed by Jon Castelli

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals

http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg Piano: George Hazelrigg Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg Drums: John O’Reilly Jr. Mixed by Jon Castelli

Some of what was discussed in this episode:

• A Portable Paradise - A poem by Roger Robinson
• A continuation of the discussion about the "nutritional" value of music, contrasting BROCKHAMPTON with Trio Mandili
• Art that acknowledges your feelings but enables self indulgence vs art that elevates and connects to something bigger - what can we make of the contrast between these two?
• How does music make us feel "seen"
• Does the music acknowledge a listeners state of mind or drive it?
• Spider shouts out Faces of Death
• Ruairi contrast his experience of grunge and Irish Traditional music
• Music without place
• What can modern record makers do to embrace inclusivity and human immediacy?
• Modern music is denuded of the regional elements in a sort of homogenization
• Are foreign audiences less cynical about music than those in America?
• Is it the time and place, the context piece?
• Does Outkast Speakerboxxx/The Love Below feel like it's from Atlanta?
• Younger people are growing up in a modern statelessness. Their sense of the U.S. is abstract and disembodied. Living in Pockets in the Cloud?
• If one grows up without the connection to heritage, time or place will the strong & distinct flavors of other places have value? Are we witnessing a fundamental change in what connection means?
• Balaji Srinivasan influences Ruairi's thinking on the distributed future
• Spider - the purpose of audio engineers is to capture the human connection
• "Should I boost the top end or cut it?" - without a sense of the artists' intent how can we make technical decisions?
• Spider what you are responding to in Trio Mandili is their openness and vulnerability
• What do people fundamentally need on a deep level?
• Drummer Sam Kaufman Skloff
• Jon on mixing a song that isn't quite there - "The performance of a bad song is still a bad song"
• If you are showing up and you keep trying as a professional, then you have done what you are paid for
• "There is no place where the challenges are over, start enjoying making records now"
• Tim Ferriss interview question - What is the best thing that you have purchased for under a $100? The value of a bottle of wine
• "The language of drinking wine is to savor" - the communal nature, the signaling power of wine
• How are we adapting to the modern landscape?
• Jon feels himself shifting toward the lack of connection to music
• Studies on the positive effect of music on people - Psychology Today & Diva-Portal
• The value of time alone to really dive deep
• What is Michael's business STTTUS becoming? What is changing?
• What does it mean to be good at a lot of things but not be able to weave them together?
• Talking about the term multi-potentiality, Michael referred to this Ted Talk
• Million Dollar Consulting - Alan Weiss
• Michael's IG Live exploration of creativity with Ainjel Emme and the concept of "Deep Observation”
• Michaels description of how STTTUS can help with “The Four Quadrants”
• Ruairi challenges Michael - Who Michael is really? What are we really doing here? And the same question for his clients
• Exploring Micheal's strengths
• Seth Godin on Becoming a Category of One
• Jordan Peterson And Russell Brand on speaking your truth
• New Young Thug Record
• John Coltrane - A Love Supreme
• Anthony Fantano - The Needle Drop - The need for art criticism
• Audio engineer's aesthetic judgement, they need for a point of view and understanding taste
• Architecture, and frameworks of aesthetic judgement - belonging, thriving cities, public spaces and what they say about us
• Are moving away from shared understandings of beauty, form and art?
• Balboa Park San Diego
• Young artists want to be innovative, bold, and creative. The risk of a firehose of novelty
• Architect Louis Khan - My Architect Documentary

.....

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals

http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg Piano: George Hazelrigg Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg Drums: John O’Reilly Jr. Mixed by Jon Castelli

Some of what was discussed in this episode:

• Shownotes to follow

.....

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals

http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg Piano: George Hazelrigg Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg Drums: John O’Reilly Jr. Mixed by Jon Castelli

Some of what was discussed in this episode:

• Are the Conversations crew really "Some of the best Engineers in the world"?
• Charles Kenny on Twitter - "I just got vaccinated by a woman born in Vietnam, with a vaccine created by two Turkish refugees living in Germany and manufactured by a US company run by a Greek migrant. Thank you, world.
• Balaji Srinivasan on Time Ferriss
• A short exploration of incentives "Show me the incentives and I will show you the outcome" - Charlie Munger
• Spider shares is passion for the Georgian Folk Trio - Trio Mandili - What is it that makes this music so powerful?
• Spider's selections here
• Top 40 music - is it denatured?
• Mix tactics to humanize music - naturalizing synthetic sounds and modernizing classic & organic sounds
• How deeply are records made today connecting to young listeners? "Alive Inside documentary and the power of music to connect deeply
• How traditional music survives and is handed down - the aural and oral traditions
• Jon's NYC meals and the power of a simple, transcendent meal
• Via Carota
• Aska
• Intent in record making
• What can modern artists do to leverage whatever it is that makes trio Mandili special?
• Other people in the room, the power of collaboration
• Music as a means to express the ineffable, to take over where the spoken and written word runs out - "I hope you have had the experience where a song has cracked you open"
• Is modern record making often words on a page with no intent - effective nonsense?
• The timeliness of a recording and how it fits into a cultural landscape
• Michael captures the themes and recaps the conversation so far
• A working list of the attributes of timeless work

1. Generational
2. Communal
3. Natural/Rooted/grounded
4. Personal
5. Unprotected
6. Unafraid
7. Transcends the listener
8. Brave
9. Evidence
10. High stakes
11. Unencumbered
12. Meaningful
13. Rich with emotion
14. Connected performers
15. Honesty
16. Historical

• A discussion of the evergreen lessons in Shakespeare
• How Capitalism and modern markets are incentivized to decouple us from history
• What are we really optimizing for in the record making process?
• The early days of The Gift Shop and the importance of a technology free zone of piano & guitar to explore songs
• Songs, mixes and masters as "Closed Systems" where everything affects everything
• “Nobody wants to listen to your fear” - Spider
• Referencing other artists work - how and when?
• Active & dangerous elements in a song, mix, master - un-inhibiting the music
• Timelessness - the power and the pitfalls of this word in the studio
• George Hazelrigg and his ideas on the personal vs the universal
• Floating Points, Pharoah Sanders and The London Symphony Orchestra
• "Music is a conversation between the past and the present, the artist and the listener" - Ruairi
• Joshua Redman and gutural saxophone, the endless variation of nature
• A conservative movement in music?
• How do we demand nutritious music?
• A discussion of context - why we focus on the pretty flower and not the pot, the soil, the water...
• Michael’s listening challenge - Actively decoding the meaning of words as group to empower progress
• "How do we discern innovation from decay?" - Spider
• What does it mean if modern singers don’t smile? 
• How often are you truly humbled by art? Regardless of the medium

.....

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals

http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg Piano: George Hazelrigg Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg Drums: John O’Reilly Jr. Mixed by Jon Castelli

Some of what was discussed in this episode:

• The team explore the meaning and implications of Michael’s impending roadtrip

.....

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals

http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg Piano: George Hazelrigg Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg Drums: John O’Reilly Jr. Mixed by Jon Castelli

Some of what was discussed in this episode:

• Michael on the book "People Skills" by Robert Bolton
• Anticipatory Hearing - hearing but you are listening in for the next thing, how art pulls you forward
• Hearing vs listening
• “I wish I had some way to make a bridge from man to man, but man is all we've got”
• “Language is an attempt to bridge consciousness” - Spider
• How to improve the bandwidth of communication
• Robert Sapolsky on language
• A discussion on how we can give permission to our collaborators to be their best selves "We are not fronting here"
• Michael on songwriting with friends, making music videos, feedback and the utility of limitations
• How do you facilitate the upgrading of others?
• The timing of feedback
• Michael’s Book - how is your book going to be uniquely you?
• Can one write the book without using any words?
• A discussion of how to monetize a body of work, of thought
• Michael's first book written in college and fond memories of writing it “Design-ology - The Official Unofficial Design Student’s Survival Guide”
• Frank Gehry on Masterclass
• The value of time alone
• Feedback - a question of if not when
• Jon on inviting useful feedback and knowing when it's done
• Jon reads a poem
• Etymology of the word Poetry
• Spider is loving a Youtube channel Bandsplaining
• Silver Apples - inventing techno music with WWII oscillators and guitar amps
• A discussion of how art relates to it's context - "Frank Gehry - Is the work iconic and self referential or in conversation with its surroundings"
• The Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam - how imperfect presentation of a collection was perfect
• Looking back at records we loved
• Irish poet Pat Ingoldsby - juxtaposing pathos and humor
• Priming oneself for art
• 1969 Silver Apples Pan Am Story
• A conveyor belt analogy for art and artfulness - A discussion about the unusual
• Chaotic people
• A recap of where we are at with the Podcast - how do we even describe what it is and what it does for us?

.....

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals

http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg Piano: George Hazelrigg Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg Drums: John O’Reilly Jr. Mixed by Jon Castelli

Some of what was discussed in this episode:

• Recap of Episode #30
• Jon on Physical Therapy
• "Deep listening" - Are younger people doing this? Are the records even made with it in mind?
• “Don’t solo things independently, solo things as groups” - assessing the interplay between sections and groups in a mix
• When you play music in a band, it is very akin to a conversation. The ear is moving from part to part. It is a conversation, and many people are good conversationalists. But when you ask someone to make the whole track, it is like being a playwright or author. It is a different muscle - those who are good conversationalists. may no be good authors or orchestrators
• Pino Palladino & Blake Mills album
• Michael’s book on process and the challenge to "Make it more me"
• Context to the Book - Ruairi’s challenge to write a book for people who really need it, not fans of the topic
• Recap of Jon and Michael's IG Live on 03.17.21 - Chaos to order, order to excellence
• When is breaking your process useful?
• A discussion on Ruairi's evolving relationship with his work
• Where does perfectionism end?
• A riff on potential - Potential is a mirage in the distance. You are carrying the burden of potential
• David White - dishonesty stems from fear of loss
• Jon gets a "turn it down" note from an A&R
• "Treat your Verbs!" - Jon’s take on EQ'ing reverb and delay returns
• Learning protools like a video game
• Michael on work and play - the value of keeping your hobby as a hobby
• "We are all shouting" - The lack of dynamic range in the use of language on Instagram & the arms race of hyperbole

.....

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals

http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg Piano: George Hazelrigg Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg Drums: John O’Reilly Jr. Mixed by Jon Castelli

Some of what was discussed in this episode

• 30th episode milestone
• The state of the audio engineering in 2021
• "A tidal wave of bullshit"
• Tony Maserati "Don’t Do this - why do you want to be a mixer?"
• Bruno Mars & Anderson Paak Silk Sonic Mix
• The total number of audio engineers grows, and the number of great engineers shrinks in proportion
• What does sense making look like? What is healthy skepticism?
• The proving ground of live performance
• An asynchronous and noisy world
• Billie Eilish & Finneas - the rarity of truly unique artists allowed and claiming the time and space to develop
• What is connection in the age of artists we know everything about? Where is the mystery?
• Incentives in the music space
• The value of stopping for a period of time
• Comparing the space music occupied in our lives when we were young to now
• Is it possible to enjoy food as much when you are full all the time?
• "The terrain of music is much larger than the terrain of language"
• Societal overwhelm, how do we better manage the flow of information coming toward us?
• Jon's health, diet and information regime
• The value of aloneness
• What does "best self" mean? 
• When people are not at their best it gives friends the opportunity to feel meaningfully useful? "Let me love you man!"



.....

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals

http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg Piano: George Hazelrigg Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg Drums: John O’Reilly Jr. Mixed by Jon Castelli

Some of what we discussed in this episode:

- Recapping our conversation with Ethan Gruska in episode #28


- How do we create the conditions for natural & productive conversation?


- Recapping Jon’s “Colors” riff on Live with Matt Rad


- How does culture impact our understanding of color?

- Jon’s music school

- Class One “Speaking Like An Artist”


- “Promote trait openness in the engineer, Artist relationship orientation 101"

- Artists will invent new language to avoid capture - "We need just enough shared language that we can get work done, but we still want the artist to be free”


- The Bauhaus of Audio


- Conversations Winter Retreat recap / why we went to the desert?

- Day one - the parts / day two - the whole


- Commitment to the project and team

- Creating a machine to make us better and the world better

- The nebulous nature of newly codified ideas - gaseous vs solid

- High stakes good faith sense making for the community

- A discussion on what high stakes means to the team


- The responsibility to share the knowledge of the craft / Mentorship


- Hands on experience, knowledge and techniques passed down / the risk of losing the craft


- Finding and pushing our personal and collective limits

- Diagraming our social connections in the music community

.....

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals

http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg Piano: George Hazelrigg Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg Drums: John O’Reilly Jr. Mixed by Jon Castelli

Artist, Songwriter and Producer Ethan Gruska joins the conversation.

Some of what was discussed:

- Are you paying attention to the kinds of problems you love to solve? The work that holds your attention even when it’s difficult?

- If imposter syndrome is seemingly inevitable, how can we make it useful?

- What’s your framework for determining whether it’s a money gig or something your creative heart is in?

.....

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg Piano: George Hazelrigg Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg Drums: John O’Reilly Jr. Mixed by Jon Castelli

Film Score Mixer, Producer and Engineer Noah Snyder joins the conversation.

Some of what was discussed:

- What does it mean to be an ethical leader?

- Do your collaborators really know you? If not why not?

- How authentic is your social media presence?

.....

http://www.convos.at

Produced and Mixed by Dylan Seals http://www.hdaudiopost.com

"Conversations Theme" Performed by Hazelrigg Brothers Composed by “Spider” Ron Entwistle, Geoff Hazelrigg, George Hazelrigg Piano: George Hazelrigg Bass: Geoff Hazelrigg Drums: John O’Reilly Jr. Mixed by Jon Castelli