Dev and Doc: AI For Healthcare Podcast

Dev and Doc - Latest News

It's 2025, Dev and Doc cover the latest news including Google's deep research and notebook LM, DeepMind's Promptbreeder, and Anthropic's new RAG approach. We also go through what retrieval augmented generation (RAG) is, and how this technique is advancing LLM performance.

👋 Hey! If you are enjoying our conversations, reach out, share your thoughts and journey with us. Don't forget to subscribe whilst you're here :)

• 👨🏻‍⚕️ Doc - Dr. Joshua Au Yeung - LinkedIn
• 🤖 Dev - Zeljko Kraljevic - Twitter

• LinkedIn Newsletter
• YouTube
• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• Substack

📧 For enquiries - [email protected]

• 🎞️ Editor - Dragan Kraljević - Instagram
• 🎨 Brand Design and Art Direction - Ana Grigorovici - Behance

• 00:00 Highlights
• 00:53 News - Notebook LM, OpenAI 12 days of Christmas
• 07:44 Change in the meta - post-training
• 11:34 Optimizing prompts with DeepMind Promptbreeder
• 13:20 Is OpenAI losing their lead against Google
• 16:45 Deep research vs Perplexity
• 24:18 AIME and oncology
• 26:00 Deep research results
• 30:20 RAG intro
• 33:14 Second pass RAG
• 36:20 RAG didn't take off
• 38:40 Wikichat
• 39:16 How do we improve on RAG?
• 41:11 Semantic/topic chunking, cross-encoders, agentic RAG
• 51:15 Google’s Problem Decomposition
• 53:32 Anthropic’s Contextual Retrieval Processing
• 56:07 Summary and wrap up

• Cross Encoders
• Wikichat
• Google's Problem Decomposition
• Anthropic's Contextual Retrieval
• Google AIME in Oncology
• DeepMind's Promptbreeder

Dev and Doc is joined by guest Annabelle Painter, doctor, CMO, and podcaster for the Royal Society of Medicine Digital Health Podcast. We deep dive into explainability and interpretability with concrete healthcare examples.

Check out Dr. Painter's Podcast here, she has some amazing guests and great insights into AI in healthcare! - https://spotify.link/pzSgxmpD5yb

👋 Hey! If you are enjoying our conversations, reach out, share your thoughts and journey with us. Don't forget to subscribe whilst you're here :)

👨🏻‍⚕️ Doc - Dr. Joshua Au Yeung - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-joshua-auyeung/

🤖 Dev - Zeljko Kraljevic - https://twitter.com/zeljkokr

LinkedIn Newsletter

YouTube Channel

Spotify

Apple Podcasts

Substack

For enquiries - 📧 [email protected]

🎞️ Editor - Dragan Kraljević - https://www.instagram.com/dragan_kraljevic/

🎨 Brand design and art direction - Ana Grigorovici - https://www.behance.net/anagrigorovici027d

Timestamps:

• 00:00 - Start + highlights
• 03:47 - Intro
• 08:16 - Does all AI in healthcare need to be explainable?
• 15:56 - History and explanation of Explainable/Interpretable AI
• 20:43 - Gradient-based saliency and heat maps
• 24:14 - LIME - Local Interpretable Model-agnostic Explanations
• 30:09 - Nonsensical correlations - When explainability goes wrong
• 33:57 - Modern explainability - Anthropic
• 37:15 - Comparing LLMs with the human brain
• 40:02 - Clinician-AI interaction
• 47:11 - Where is this all going? Aligning models to ground truth and teaching them to say "I don't know"

References:

• Fun Examples of when models go wrong - Nonsensical correlations
• Mechanistic interpretability
• Anthropic - Mapping the mind of language models
• Limitations of current AI explainability approaches
• Explainability does not improve automation bias in radiologists

Doc talks to Dr Derrick Khor - Cancer Doctor, HealthTech Consultant and Linkedin Guru. We share Derrick's insights from consulting over 120 companies and a step-by-step guide on how to build a successful Healthcare company. You can find more of Derrick and his helpful guides - https://adoptadoc.com/resources/ profile- https://www.linkedin.com/in/derrick-khor/ 👋 Hey! If you are enjoying our conversations, reach out, share your thoughts and journey with us. Don't forget to subscribe whilst you're here :)

Dev&Doc is a podcast where doctors and developers deep dive into the potential of AI in healthcare.
👨🏻‍⚕️Doc - Dr. Joshua Au Yeung
🤖Dev - Zeljko Kraljevic
LinkedIn Newsletter
YouTube
Spotify
Apple
Substack
For enquiries - 📧 [email protected]

<p>🎞️ Editor - <a href="https://www.instagram.com/dragan_kraljevic/">Dragan Kraljević</a></p>

<p>🎨 Brand design and art direction - <a href="https://www.behance.net/anagrigorovici027d">Ana Grigorovici</a></p>

Timestamps 00:00 Highlights and intro 3:01 Start 5:10 getting into health tech 8:03 lack of clinicians in start ups 15:07 Derrick's own healthtech journey to consulting 23:37 Start ups and failure 27:35 the start up road map 32:16 are you a medical device (samd)? Intended use 40:55 clinical evidence generation 48:16 go to market, NHS DTAC 57:57 power of networking, social media, linkedin 1:02:43 top UK health tech companies to look out for

Dev and Doc deconstruct digital biomarkers! This is a fascinating and nascent field in the world of medicine, how have biomarkers transformed the way we practice medicine, and how will AI and wearables, sensors and digital fingerprints transform the way we practice in the future?

Hey! If you are enjoying our conversations, reach out, share your thoughts and journey with us. Don't forget to subscribe whilst you're here :)

find us on youtube- @Dev and Doc 📙Substack: https://aiforhealthcare.substack.com/👨🏻‍⚕️Doc - Dr. Joshua Au Yeung - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-joshua-auyeung/🤖Dev - Zeljko Kraljevic https://twitter.com/zeljkokr🎞️ Editor- Dragan Kraljević https://www.instagram.com/dragan_kraljevic/🎨Brand design and art direction - Ana Grigorovici https://www.behance.net/anagrigorovici027d

Timestamp 00:00 highlights 01:50 intro 02:40 how biomarkers evolved in the last century 6:02 what is the definition of a biomarker 10:00 biomarkers can be very biased depending on who you are testing 12:31 when does a test become a biomarker 17:30 the digital age and measurements - AI vision in retina scans, digital stethoscopes 23:50 what is an “analog” biomarker vs digital biomarker? 30:10 where do biomarkers fail in evidence based medicine? 34:55 Biomarkers are pretty poor for mental health 47:57 can AI predict depression better than humans? 51:21 Digital biomarkers to detect movement disorders 01:00:04 this can change clinical trials forever

Refs

- variable definitions of biomarkers https://informatics.bmj.com/content/31/1/e100914

-digital biomarkers convergence nature paper https://www.nature.com/articles/s41746-022-00583-z

-digital stethoscope for heart failure https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/landig/PIIS2589-7500(21)00256-9.pdf

-touch screen typing depression paper https://www.nature.com/articles/s41746-022-00583-z

- Duchennes body suit biomarker https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02045-1#Sec9

- Friedreichs ataxia body suit https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02159-6?fromPaywallRec=false#Sec9

Dr Keith Grimes is a HealthTech consultant and General Practitioner working with companies to transform clinical ideas into something impactful. He worked as the digital health director in Babylon Health prior to its demise, and currently runs his own consulting firm, Curistica. This is one not to miss! References HealthTech consulting at Curistica www.curistica.com Prof Amanda Goodall on leadership theory https://amandagoodall.com/ For those interested in Leadership opportunities: -Faculty of medical leadership and management https://www.fmlm.ac.uk/ -Bite labs https://www.bitelabs.io/ <p>Dev&Doc is a podcast where doctors and developers deep dive into the potential of AI in healthcare.<br>

👨🏻‍⚕️Doc - <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-joshua-auyeung/">Dr. Joshua Au Yeung</a><br>

🤖Dev - <a href="https://twitter.com/zeljkokr">Zeljko Kraljevic</a><br>

<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7216474068085026817">LinkedIn Newsletter</a><br>

<a href="https://youtube.com/@DevAndDoc">YouTube</a><br>

<a href="https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/devanddoc">Spotify</a><br>

<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/dev-and-doc-ai-for-healthcare-podcast/id1751495120">Apple</a><br>

<a href="https://aiforhealthcare.substack.com/">Substack</a><br>

For enquiries - 📧 <a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>

</p>

🎞️ Editor- Dragan Kraljević https://www.instagram.com/dragan_kraljevic/ 🎨Brand design and art direction - Ana Grigorovici https://www.behance.net/anagrigorovici027d Timestamps 00:00 start 1:10 Career career career - GP, babylon health, digital consultancy 6:40 working as a rural GP in Scotland 9:21 time is the biggest factor of clinical impact 12:11 finding impact through data  21:29 leading by example  23:52 Should doctors be leading healthtech businesses?  30:10 why do healthtech start-ups not have clinicians earlier?  36:30 Babylon failure - importance of having clinical influence at the top  43:55 experience being grilled on BBC newsnight  49:45 lessons learnt from the downfall of Babylon  52:25 6 values of consulting firm Curistica  55:51 common problems in start ups  59:36 how AI will change the healthcare landscape

How do we align AI models for healthcare? 👨‍⚕️ And importantly, the moral codes and ethics that we practice everyday, how does the LLM deal with ethical scenarios like the trolley problem for example? This is a fascinating topic and one we spend a lot of time thinking about. In this episode Dev and Doc, Zeljko Kraljevic and I cover all the up to date topics around reinforcement learning, the benefits and where it can go wrong. We also discuss different RL methods including the algorithms used to train ChatGPT (RLHF). Dev and Doc is a Podcast where developers and doctors join forces to deep dive into AI in healthcare. Together, we can build models that matter. 👨🏻‍⚕️Doc - Dr. Joshua Au Yeung - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-joshua... 🤖Dev - Zeljko Kraljevic https://twitter.com/zeljkokr The podcast 🎙️ 🔊Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3QO5Lr3... 📙Substack: https://aiforhealthcare.substack.com/ Hey! If you are enjoying our conversations, reach out, share your thoughts and journey with us. Don't forget to subscribe whilst you're here :) 🎞️ Editor- Dragan Kraljević https://www.instagram.com/dragan_kral... 🎨Brand design and art direction - Ana Grigorovici https://www.behance.net/anagrigorovic...00:00 Highlights 01:27 start 4:38 aligning ethics of ai models 7:04 doctors ethical choices daily 8:00 RLHF and AI training methods 16:29 reinforcement learning 19:35 Preference model -rewarding models correctly can make or break the success 27:05 exploiting reward function, model degradation (and how to fix it) Ref AI intro paper - https://pn.bmj.com/content/23/6/476 Open AI RLHF paper - https://arxiv.org/abs/1909.08593 War and peace of LLMs! - https://arxiv.org/abs/2311.17227

In this episode Doc goes on an adventure to chair an LLM/ generative AI conference session and reflects on his experience. Dev and Doc also discuss big news on meta's Llama3 and Code LlaMa. Dev and Doc is a Podcast where developers and doctors join forces to deep dive into AI in healthcare. Together, we can build models that matter. 👨🏻‍⚕️Doc - Dr. Joshua Au Yeung - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-joshua-auyeung/ 🤖Dev - Zeljko Kraljevic https://twitter.com/zeljkokr The podcast 🎙️ 🔊Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3QO5Lr3w4Rd6lqwlfKDaB7?si=e7915d844994403e 📙Substack: https://aiforhealthcare.substack.com/ Hey! If you are enjoying our conversations, reach out, share your thoughts and journey with us. Don't forget to subscribe whilst you're here :) 🎞️ Editor- Dragan Kraljević https://www.instagram.com/dragan_kraljevic/ 🎨Brand design and art direction - Ana Grigorovici https://www.behance.net/anagrigorovici027d 00:00 Highlight 00:36 Start 1:57 Are researchers just using Generative AI to get presentations /publications? 6:18 Hype cycles , lack of real world clinical studies using LLMs 8:08 LlaMa3 , Code LlaMa announcement and insights 13:30 Google bard / Gemini ultra second on leaderboard 17:30 wrap up and end

Dev And Doc are back ! Here we break down the biggest highlights of 2023, and AI predictions for 2024. Dev and Doc is a Podcast where developers and doctors join forces to deep dive into AI in healthcare. Together, we can build models that matter. 👨🏻‍⚕️Doc - Dr. Joshua Au Yeung - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-joshua-auyeung/ 🤖Dev - Zeljko Kraljevic https://twitter.com/zeljkokr 00:00 start 01:01 Intro, Advancing LLMs in healthcare 07:10 Ambient note documentation in Medicine 10:52 Meta LLaMa are the good guys ? 14:40 GPT store 19:40 Overhyped Google Gemini model 26:17 AGI again 29:05 6 big predictions Open source vs Closed source models 38:55 AI in healthcare- LLM clinical trials , AI drug discovery 42:05 end References GPT store- https://openai.com/blog/introducing-the-gpt-store Hugging face predictions- https://twitter.com/ClementDelangue/status/1729158744762626310 AI drug discovery (blog post to paper) - https://news.mit.edu/2023/using-ai-mit-researchers-identify-antibiotic-candidates-1220 Google AMIE blog - https://blog.research.google/2024/01/amie-research-ai-system-for-diagnostic_12.html The podcast 🎙️ 🔊Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3QO5Lr3w4Rd6lqwlfKDaB7?si=e7915d844994403e 📙Substack: https://aiforhealthcare.substack.com/ Hey! If you are enjoying our conversations, reach out, share your thoughts and journey with us. Don't forget to subscribe whilst you're here :) 🎞️ Editor- Dragan Kraljević https://www.instagram.com/dragan_kraljevic/ 🎨Brand design and art direction - Ana Grigorovici https://www.behance.net/anagrigorovici027d

We have conversations between doctors and developers exploring the potential of AI in healthcare Josh is a training Neurologist in the NHS, and AI researcher in St Thomas' hospital and King's College Hospital. He is also a PhD student at King's College London. Zeljko is an AI researcher and PhD student at King's College London, as well as a CTO for a natural language processing company.

In this episode, Dev and Doc sit down to discuss artificial general intelligence from the perspective of a neurologist and computer scientist. We dive into the current developments around AGI , the 2 controversial schools of thought, LLMs and neuroscience, and give hot takes about whether we will ever reach AGI. Dev and Doc is a Podcast where developers and doctors join forces to deep dive into AI in healthcare. Together, we can build models that matter. 👨🏻‍⚕️Doc - Dr. Joshua Au Yeung - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-joshua-auyeung/ 🤖Dev - Zeljko Kraljevic https://twitter.com/zeljkokr Hey! If you are enjoying our conversations, reach out, share your thoughts and journey with us. Don't forget to subscribe whilst you're here :) 00:00 start 01:05 intro 03:46 two camps of AGI - Yann Lecun vs Geoffrey Hinton, Architecture vs Data 07:47 Do emergent capabilities of LLMs pose a threat to humanity? 08:45 Intelligence and AGI - neuroscience and computer science approach 16:59 LLMs vs the human brain 24:16 Do AIs need a human touch? - Intrinsic personalities, temperaments, motivations, joy and reward The podcast 🎙️ 🔊Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3QO5Lr3w4Rd6lqwlfKDaB7?si=e7915d844994403e 📙Substack: https://aiforhealthcare.substack.com/ 🎞️ Editor- Dragan Kraljević https://www.instagram.com/dragan_kraljevic/ 🎨Brand design and art direction - Ana Grigorovici https://www.behance.net/anagrigorovici027d