Everything Belongs

How can we be open to what the darkness of Advent offers?

In this conversation, Richard Rohr, Mike Petrow, Drew Jackson, and Paul Swanson explore the themes of Advent and Christmas, sharing personal traditions and reflections on the spiritual significance of the season. They discuss the importance of longing, waiting, and the transformative power of darkness, as well as the role of poetry in expressing these themes. The conversation culminates in poignant reading of a poem that encapsulates the essence of Advent, emphasizing the beauty found in the darkness and the anticipation of new beginnings.

Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow, Paul Swanson, and Drew Jackson

Resources:

• The transcript for this episode can be found here.
• Grab a copy of Eager to Love here.
• Learn more about Drew Jackson's God Speaks Through Wombs, here.

How can we stay open to ongoing learning and growth, even when we don't have all the answers?

In this episode, we’re joined by CAC's Dean of Core Faculty, Brian McLaren. Together, we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Eager to Love with Chapter 6: “An Alternative Orthodoxy: Paying Attention to Different Things.” In this episode, we explore the concept of "alternative orthodoxy," examining how Franciscan spirituality, Richard Rohr's personal teachings, and the Christian contemplative tradition challenge conventional religious frameworks and invite us to pay attention to different things. Before Mike and Drew begin the conversation with Brian, Mike and Paul catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the sixth chapter of Eager to Love.

Brian McLaren is the Dean of CAC Faculty. A former evangelical pastor, Brian D. McLaren is a champion for a more loving, inclusive and contemplative Christianity. A faculty member at the Center for Action and Contemplation, he teaches ways to reconnect with the message Jesus lived and died for—unconditional love. He is the author of Faith After Doubt, The Great Spiritual Migration, and host of CAC’s podcast Learning How to See.

Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow, Paul Swanson, and Drew Jackson

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode can be found here.
• Grab a copy of Eager to Love here.
• To learn more about Brian McLaren, visit his website here.

How does contemplation invite you to see the world, and yourself, differently?

In this episode, we’re joined by CAC Affiliate Faculty member Carmen Acevedo Butcher. Together, we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Eager to Love with Chapter 5: “Contemplation: A New Way of Seeing.” In this conversation, we explore the meaning and practice of contemplation, how it can be practiced in various forms, and how a contemplative perspective can transform one's relationship to the world. Before Mike and Paul begin the conversation with Carmen, Mike and Paul catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the fifth chapter of Eager to Love.

Carmen Acevedo Butcher, PhD, is an award-winning author, poet, and translator of spiritual texts. She teaches at UC Berkeley, focusing on language evolution and inclusive communication. Her work highlights the power of words and the connection between personal and global healing.

Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow, Paul Swanson, and Drew Jackson

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode can be found here.
• Grab a copy of Eager to Love here.
• To learn more about Carmen Acevedo Butcher, visit her website here.

What steps can you take to deepen your connection with the natural world?

In this episode, we’re joined by CAC Affiliate Faculty member Rev. Dr. Randy Woodly. Together, we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Eager to Love with Chapter 4: “Home Base: Nature and The Road.” This episode explores the wisdom of St. Francis and Jesus through the lens of Eloheh, emphasizing their connection to nature and their understanding of the kingdom of heaven as a state of harmony in the natural world. Before Mike begins the interview with Randy, Mike and Paul catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the fourth chapter of Eager to Love.

Rev. Dr. Randy Woodley is an activist, scholar, author, teacher, wisdom-keeper, and Cherokee descendant recognized by the Keetoowah Band who speaks on justice, faith, the earth, and Indigenous realities. He is the author of numerous books, including Becoming Rooted and Shalom and the Community of Creation. He and his wife, Edith, co-sustain Eloheh Indigenous Center for Earth Justice and Eloheh Farm & Seeds outside Portland, Oregon.

Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow, Paul Swanson, and Drew Jackson

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode can be found here.
• Grab a copy of Eager to Love here.
• To learn more about Rev. Dr. Randy Woodley, visit his website here.
• Check out Randy and Edith Woodley's new book, Journey to Eloheh here.

What does simplicity look like for you in your everyday life?

In this episode, we’re joined by CAC Faculty member Dr. Barbara Holmes. Together, we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Eager to Love with Chapter 3: “Living on the Edge of the Inside: Simplicity and Justice.” This episode explores the practice of simplicity as a path to freedom, the importance of community in supporting that journey, and the concept of "soft prophecy" as a way of living in peace and being peace in a world full of suffering. Before Paul and Drew dive into the interview with Dr. Barbara Holmes, Mike and Paul catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the third chapter of Eager to Love.

Dr. Barbara Holmes is a scholar of African American spirituality and mysticism. Dr. Barbara Holmes reveals how the cosmos can expand our limited constructs of religion, race, and power. As faculty at the Center for Action and Contemplation, she teaches how God’s communal presence can inspire imagination and wisdom, especially in times of crisis. She is the author of Race and the Cosmos, Joy Unspeakable, and Crisis Contemplation. She hosts CAC's podcast The Cosmic We.

Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow, Paul Swanson, and Drew Jackson

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode can be found here.
• Grab a copy of Eager to Love here.
• To learn more about Dr. Barbara Holmes, visit her CAC Faculty website here.
• or, visit her website here.
• Check out Dr. Barbara Holme's books here.
• Check out The Cosmic We, the podcast Dr. B co-hosts with Donny Bryant on the CAC's podcast network here.

How can we live in solidarity with the pain of the world without being overwhelmed by it?

In this episode, we’re joined once again by CAC Faculty member James Finley and an additional co-host from the CAC, Director of Mission Integration Drew Jackson. Together, we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Eager to Love with Chapter 2: “A Happy Run Downward: The Inner Authority of Those Who Have Suffered.” This episode explores the themes of suffering as a path to compassion, the transformative power of mystical union, and the importance of finding solace in belovedness. Before Drew and Paul dive into the interview with Jim, Mike and Paul catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the second chapter of Eager to Love.

James Finley, a clinical psychologist and spiritual director, is one of the core faculty members of the Center for Action and Contemplation and is the host of our sister podcast on the CAC network, Turning to the Mystics. A former novice under Thomas Merton at the Abbey of Gethsemani, he is the author of the classic book Merton's Palace of Nowhere: A Search for God through Awareness of the True Self, The Contemplative Heart, and most recently, The Healing Path.

Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow, Paul Swanson, and Drew Jackson

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here.
• Grab a copy of Eager to Love here.
• To learn more about James Finley, visit his CAC Faculty website here.
• Jim's latest book, The Healing Path, can be found here.

Welcome to Season 2 of Everything Belongs! This season, we'll be exploring Richard's book Eager to Love chapter-by-chapter, and what better way to kick off a brand new season than with our friend, Mirabai Starr. In this episode, we're covering Chapter One: "What Do We Mean by 'Mysticism'?" This episode explores the themes of mysticism, spirituality, and the sacredness of everyday life, examining the nature of mystical experiences, the importance of love, and how grief can lead to deeper spiritual understanding. Before we dive into the interview with Mirabai, Mike and Paul catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the first chapter of Eager to Love.

Mirabai Starr is an award-winning author of creative non-fiction and contemporary translations of sacred literature. She taught Philosophy and World Religions at the University of New Mexico-Taos for 20 years and now teaches and speaks internationally on contemplative practice and inter-spiritual dialog. A certified bereavement counselor, Mirabai helps mourners harness the transformational power of loss. Her latest book, WILD MERCY: Living the Fierce & Tender Wisdom of the Women Mystics, was named one of the “Best Books of 2019”. She lives with her extended family in the mountains of northern New Mexico.

Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow and Paul Swanson

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here.
• Grab a copy of Eager to Love here.
• Grab a copy of Mirabai's new book Ordinary Mysticism here.
• To learn more about Mirabai Starr and Wild Heart, visit her website here.

Welcome to Part 3 of our series responding to your questions. This episode continues the conversation from the previous two episodes responding to listener questions from Season 1 of Everything Belongs. Due to baby ducklings being born in the original conversation, we saved some of your questions and voicemails for Richard to be recorded at a later date. We'll see you soon for Season 2!

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here.
• Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here.

Welcome to Part 2 of our episodes responding to your questions. This episode continues the conversation from the previous episode responding to listener questions from Season 1 of Everything Belongs.

About the guest:

Cassidy Hall (she/her/hers) (MA, MDiv, MTS) is an author, award-winning filmmaker, podcaster, ordained minister in the United Church of Christ, and leading voice in contemplative spirituality. She is the cohost of the Encountering Silence podcast and the creator of the Contemplating Now and Queering Contemplation podcasts. Her films include In Pursuit of Silence and Day of a Stranger. Her forthcoming book, Queering Contemplation, Finding Queerness in the Roots and Future of Contemplative Spirituality is set for release in May of 2024. Cassidy is widely published and currently resides in Indianapolis, where she is studying for her DMin degree.

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here.
• Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here.
• To learn more about Cassidy Hall, visit her website here.
• Grab a copy of Cassidy's book, Queering Contemplation, here.
• Connie Zweig's book The Inner Work of Age: From Role to Soul can be found here.

In this season finale of Everything Belongs, we're diving into the final chapter of Richard Rohr's book Falling Upward and responding to as many listener questions as we could across three parts. Joining Corey, Mike, and Paul for these special episodes is our dear friend Cassidy Hall, the author of Queering Contemplation. Together, we're exploring how her work relates to the themes of Falling Upward and the paradoxical journey of spiritual growth that comes along with it. This episode was recorded during a particularly memorable moment, as a brood of ducklings hatched in Richard's front yard, creating a scene of pure joy and wonder that mirrors the themes of new beginnings and unexpected grace that ran throughout this season. We hope you enjoy it 🦆🐥

About the guest:

Cassidy Hall (she/her/hers) (MA, MDiv, MTS) is an author, award-winning filmmaker, podcaster, ordained minister in the United Church of Christ, and leading voice in contemplative spirituality. She is the cohost of the Encountering Silence podcast and the creator of the Contemplating Now and Queering Contemplation podcasts. Her films include In Pursuit of Silence and Day of a Stranger. Her forthcoming book, Queering Contemplation, Finding Queerness in the Roots and Future of Contemplative Spirituality is set for release in May of 2024. Cassidy is widely published and currently resides in Indianapolis, where she is studying for her DMin degree.

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here.
• Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here.
• To learn more about Cassidy Hall, visit her website here.
• Grab a copy of Cassidy's book, Queering Contemplation, here.

How has the interplay between gain and loss shaped your life's journey, and what new possibilities does this open up for you now?

In this episode, we're joined by two members of the CAC faculty Dr. Barbara Holmes and Brian McLaren as we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Falling Upward with Chapter 12: "New Problems and New Directions." In this conversation, we explore the continuous journey of transformation and renewal throughout all stages of life, reflecting on personal experiences, the rhythms of loss and gain, and the deep wisdom that guides us through both the first and second halves of life. Before we dive in to the interview with Barbara and Brian, CAC staff members Mike Petrow and Paul Swanson catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the twelfth chapter a decade after he originally wrote it.

About the guests:

Dr. Barbara Holmes is a scholar of African American spirituality and mysticism. Dr. Barbara Holmes reveals how the cosmos can expand our limited constructs of religion, race, and power. As faculty at the Center for Action and Contemplation, she teaches how God’s communal presence can inspire imagination and wisdom, especially in times of crisis. She is the author of Race and the Cosmos, Joy Unspeakable, and Crisis Contemplation. She hosts CAC's podcast The Cosmic We.

Brian McLaren is the Dean of CAC Faculty. As a former evangelical pastor, Brian is a champion for a more loving, inclusive and contemplative Christianity. A faculty member at the Center for Action and Contemplation, he teaches ways to reconnect with the message Jesus lived and died for—unconditional love. He is the author of Faith After Doubt, The Great Spiritual Migration, and most recently, Life After Doom. He hosts CAC’s podcast Learning How to See.

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here.
• Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here.
• To learn more about Dr. Barbara Holmes, visit her website here.
• To learn more about Brian McLaren, visit his website here.
• Grab a copy of Brian's latest book, Life After Doom, here.

Connect with us:

• Have a question or thought about this season that you'd like to share with us?
• Email us: [email protected]
• Send us a voicemail here: http://www.cac.org/voicemail

What is the shadow? How do we understand it?

In this episode, we're joined by Connie Zweig as we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Falling Upward with Chapter 11: "The Shadowlands." In this conversation with Connie Zweig, we explore the complex relationship between spiritual communities, the unconscious aspects of ourselves, and the potential for growth within ourselves and these groups. Before we dive in to the interview with Connie, CAC staff catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the eleventh chapter a decade after he originally wrote it.

Connie Zweig, Ph.D., is a retired therapist, writer, Climate Reality Leader, and Citizens Climate Lobbyist. Known as the Shadow Expert, she is coauthor of Meeting the Shadow and Romancing the Shadow and a novel, A Moth to the Flame: The Life of Sufi Poet Rumi. Her award-winning book, The Inner Work of Age: Shifting from Role to Soul, extends her work on the Shadow into midlife and beyond and explores aging as a spiritual practice. It won both the 2021 American Book Fest Award and the 2021 Best Indie Book Award for best inspirational non-fiction. Her newest book, Meeting the Shadow on the Spiritual Path: The Dance of Darkness and Light in Our Search for Awakening is available now. It explores shadow-work into the religious and spiritual arena. Connie has been doing contemplative practices for more than 50 years. She is a wife, stepmother, and grandmother. After all these roles, she’s practicing the shift from role to soul.

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here.
• Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here.
• To learn more about Connie's work, check out her website here.
• We mentioned Connie's book, Meeting the Shadow on the Spiritual Path, several times in this episode. You can find that here.

Connect with us:

• Have a question or thought about this season that you'd like to share with us?
• Email us: [email protected]
• Send us a voicemail here: http://www.cac.org/voicemail

In our fast-paced world, how can we cultivate a sense of wonder and open ourselves to the possibility of joy, even amidst life's inevitable hardships?

In this episode, we're joined by Christian Wiman as we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Falling Upward with Chapter 10: "A Bright Sadness." In this conversation with Christian Wiman, we explore how suffering and joy can coexist and transform us through a poetic experience of Christianity. Before we dive in to the interview with Christian, CAC staff catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the tenth chapter a decade after he originally wrote it.

Christian Wiman is the author, editor, or translator of more than a dozen books of poetry and prose, including two memoirs, My Bright Abyss: Meditation of a Modern Believer and He Held Radical Light: The Art of Faith, the Faith of Art; Every Riven Thing, winner of the Ambassador Book Award; Once in the West, a National Book Critics Circle Award finalist; and Survival Is a Style―all published by FSG. He teaches religion and literature at the Yale Institute of Sacred Music and at Yale Divinity School.

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here.
• Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here.
• Check out Christian Wiman's latest book, Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair here. We also reference his book, My Bright Abyss. You can find that here.

Connect with us:

• Have a question or thought about this season that you'd like to share with us?
• Email us: [email protected]
• Send us a voicemail here: http://www.cac.org/voicemail

How can we transform our understanding of life and self to cultivate a deeper sense of acceptance, letting go, and a "Second Simplicity" in the face of life's inevitable challenges?

In this episode, we're joined by Carmen Acevedo Butcher as we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Falling Upward with Chapter 9: "A Second Simplicity." In this conversation, Carmen offers thoughts on her shifting practice of contemplative stillness—depending on her stage of life. It’s something she calls “resting in wordless, imageless, Love.” Before we dive in to the interview with Carmen, CAC staff catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the ninth chapter a decade after he originally wrote it.

Carmen Acevedo Butcher, PhD, is an author, teacher, poet, and award-winning translator of spiritual texts. Her dynamic work around the evolution of language and the necessity of just and inclusive language has garnered interest from various media, including the BBC and NPR's Morning Edition. A Carnegie Foundation Professor of the Year and Fulbright Senior Lecturer, Acevedo Butcher teaches at the University of California, Berkeley, in the College Writing Programs.

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here.
• Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here.
• To learn more about Carmen's work, visit her website here.

Connect with us:

• Have a question or thought about this season that you'd like to share with us?
• Email us: [email protected]
• Send us a voicemail here: http://www.cac.org/voicemail

What if heaven and hell were both present—right now? 

In this episode, we're joined by The Very Rev. Michael Battle as we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Falling Upward with Chapter 8: "Amnesia and the Big Picture." In this episode, we explore the suffering we experience when we believe we’re separated from God and how this chapter, “Amnesia and the Big Picture” helps us to see how our approach to life can change when we realize we are worthy of love—right here, right now.  Before we dive in to the interview with Rev. Battle, CAC staff catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the eighth chapter a decade after he originally wrote it.

The Very Rev. Michael Battle, Ph.D. was ordained a priest by Archbishop Desmond Tutu in 1993. Battle’s clergy experience, in addition to his academic work, makes him an internationally sought after speaker, teacher, writer and spiritual leader. In 2010, Battle was given one of the highest Anglican Church distinctions as “Six Preacher,” by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams. A distinction given to only a few who demonstrate great dedication to the church that goes back to 16th century England and Thomas Cranmer. Battle has published eleven books, including his latest: Desmond Tutu: A Spiritual Biography of South Africa’s Confessor. Battle’s PeaceBattle Institute works on subjects of diversity, spirituality, prayer, race and reconciliation. In addition, Battle has served as pastor and spiritual director to thousands of clergy and laity. He has also served as chaplain to Archbishop Tutu, Congressman John Lewis, the Episcopal House of Bishops and the Lambeth Conference of Anglican Bishops. In addition, Battle has served as vice president to the grandson of Mahatma Gandhi, Arun Gandhi’s Institute for Nonviolence. Battle and his wife, Raquel, were married by Archbishop Tutu and are parents to two daughters, Sage and Bliss, and a son, Zion. All of whom were baptized by Archbishop Tutu as well.

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here.
• Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here.
• To learn more about Rev. Michael Battle's work, visit his website here.

Connect with us:

• Have a question or thought about this season that you'd like to share with us?
• Email us: [email protected]
• Send us a voicemail here: http://www.cac.org/voicemail

What if we could feel at home wherever we are?

In this episode, we're joined by James Finley as we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Falling Upward with Chapter 7: "Home and Homesickness." In this episode, we discuss a lifelong exploration of contemplation, healing, and facing the challenges of our times through a lens of love and finding "home" in a challenging world . Before we dive in to the interview with Jim, CAC staff catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the sixth chapter a decade after he originally wrote it.

James Finley, a clinical psychologist and spiritual director, is one of the core faculty members of the Center for Action and Contemplation and is the host of our sister podcast on the CAC network, Turning to the Mystics. A former novice under Thomas Merton at the Abbey of Gethsemani, he is the author of the classic book Merton's Palace of Nowhere: A Search for God through Awareness of the True Self, The Contemplative Heart, and most recently, The Healing Path.

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here.
• Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here.

Connect with us:

• Have a question or thought about this season that you'd like to share with us?
• Email us: [email protected]
• Send us a voicemail here: http://www.cac.org/voicemail

What if the goal of the spiritual journey is to understand suffering? 

In this episode, we're joined by Mirabai Starr as we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Falling Upward with Chapter 6: "Necessary Suffering." This episode explores how loss, suffering, and grief can be a transformative spiritual path, leading to deeper connection with the divine and a more authentic self, by urging us to confront pain and surrender to a greater reality. Before we dive in to the interview with Mirabai, CAC staff catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the sixth chapter a decade after he originally wrote it.

Mirabai Starr is an award-winning author of creative non-fiction and contemporary translations of sacred literature. She taught Philosophy and World Religions at the University of New Mexico-Taos for 20 years and now teaches and speaks internationally on contemplative practice and inter-spiritual dialog. A certified bereavement counselor, Mirabai helps mourners harness the transformational power of loss. Her latest book, WILD MERCY: Living the Fierce & Tender Wisdom of the Women Mystics, was named one of the “Best Books of 2019”. She lives with her extended family in the mountains of northern New Mexico.

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here.
• Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here.
• To learn more about Mirabai Starr and Wild Heart, visit her website here.

Connect with us:

• Have a question or thought about this season that you'd like to share with us?
• Email us: [email protected]
• Send us a voicemail here: http://www.cac.org/voicemail

How do we meet life on its terms instead of ours?

In this episode, we're joined by Paula D'Arcy as we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Falling Upward with Chapter 5: "Stumbling Over the Stumbling Stone." We're exploring what it can look like to venture into the luminous dark to find our greatest gifts with a chapter that asks us to lean into our feelings of devastation and loss when life doesn’t go our way. Before we dive in to the interview with Paula, CAC staff catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the fifth chapter a decade after he originally wrote it.

Paula D'Arcy, a writer, retreat leader, and conference and seminar speaker, travels widely in the United States, Canada, and abroad. She is also President of Red Bird Foundation, which supports the growth and spiritual development of those in need as well as those invested in the opening of the heart and the healing of this world.

A former psychotherapist who ministered to those facing issues of grief and loss, Paula worked with the Peale Foundation, founded by Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, from 1980 until his death in 1993, and has written ten books. Today her work includes leading workshops and retreats related to spirituality, writing, women’s gatherings,( including Women’s Initiation and Rites of Passage), and creating venues where men and women experience an opening of the heart and a change in their way of being in the world. In recent years she has teamed with Richard Rohr to present seminars on the Male/Female Journey and Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life (for tapes from the conference on Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life and to purchase Paula’s books, click here.)

Paula also serves as adjunct faculty at Oblate School of Theology in San Antonio, TX and Seton Cove Spirituality Center in Austin, TX.

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here.
• Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here.
• To learn more about Paula D'Arcy and Redbird Foundation, visit her website here.

Connect with us:

• Have a question or thought about this season that you'd like to share with us?
• Email us: [email protected]
• Send us a voicemail here: http://www.cac.org/voicemail

In this episode, we're joined by Kate Bowler, PhD. as we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Falling Upward with Chapter 4: "The Tragic Sense of Life." Kate, along with Richard and CAC staff delve into the flaws of the prosperity gospel as well as the importance of finding meaning in suffering. We explore the ways in which love and suffering intertwine, urging honesty during life's hardships, and celebrate the power of community, especially its irreplaceable gift of "unchosen" love. Before we dive in to the interview, staff from the CAC catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the fourth chapter a decade after he originally wrote it.

Kate Bowler, PhD is a four-time New York Times bestselling author, award-winning podcast host, and an Associate Professor of American Religious History at Duke University. She studies the cultural stories we tell ourselves about success, suffering, and whether (or not) we’re capable of change. She is the author of Blessed: A History of the American Prosperity Gospel and The Preacher’s Wife: The Precarious Power of Evangelical Women Celebrities. After being unexpectedly diagnosed with Stage IV cancer at age 35, she penned the New York Times bestselling memoir, Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I’ve Loved) and No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear). She lives in Durham, North Carolina with her family and continues to teach do-gooders at Duke Divinity School.

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here.
• Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here.
• To learn more about Kate Bowler and her work, visit her website here.

Connect with us:

• Have a question or thought about this season that you'd like to share with us?
• Email us: [email protected]
• Send us a voicemail here: http://www.cac.org/voicemail

"God gives us something better than answers, God gives us people." - Erin Sanzero, our guest today, on the path of falling upward during the first half of life. 

In this episode, we're joined by Erin Sanzero as we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Falling Upward with Chapter 3: "The First Half of Life." Erin, alongside CAC staff, explore the complexities of the first half of life and the wisdom unveiled during the transition to the second half of life. Together, they reflect on how to embrace the "messy middle", found in-between the first and second half of life, how to forgive the past and engage in spiritual practices along the path of spiritual transformation. Before we dive in to the interview, CAC staff catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the third chapter a decade after he originally wrote it.

Erin Sanzero (she/her) is a "geriatric millennial." She's been a brick-and-mortar business owner, digital entrepreneur, musician, teacher, musical director, opera singer, banjo player, and weightlifter. A passionate believer in the arts, Erin holds a bachelor's in music from Manhattan School of Music and master's in music from Mannes College of Music in New York. Currently pursuing her master's of divinity from Duke University School and seeking ordination in the Presbyterian Church (USA), she is the Director of Sunday Express at Fairfax Presbyterian Church in Fairfax, Virginia. Erin is a 2023 alumna of the Center for Action and Contemplation's Living School.

Resources:

• A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here.
• Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here.
• To read Erin's Oneing Article "Midlife Musings", check it out on our website.

Connect with us:

• Have a question or thought about this season that you'd like to share with us?
• Email us: [email protected]
• Send us a voicemail here: http://www.cac.org/voicemail