Exvangelical

Happy Pride, everyone!

I'm re-releasing this 2021 interview with Erin Green and Paul Southwick of The Religious Exemption Accountability Project. CW: this conversation includes discussion of sexual and gender discrimination and other forms of abuse.

We talk about how LGBTQ+ students are treated by college administrations, how LGBTQ+ students end up at religious colleges, the history of religious colleges resisting civil rights, and why a formal legal challenge is important.

In March 2021, REAP filed "a historic, class-action lawsuit representing 33 LGBTQ students and alumni from religious colleges demanding that the U.S. Department of Education to stop granting religious exemptions to taxpayer-funded religious colleges and universities that discriminate against and abuse their LGBTQ students. Learn more about the lawsuit and meet our plaintiffs here." In January 2023, that initial complaint was dismissed, but an appeal has been filed. For the full timeline of their case, visit https://www.thereap.org/lawsuit.

REAP is also very active on social media and recently ran a #cantpraythegayaway campaign. Follow them on Instagram.

Support the podcast via a subscription to my newsletter, The Post-Evangelical Post. For $5/month or $50/year you'll get ad-free podcast feeds, subscriber only writing, and more. Read my latest essay, "I Still Haven't Socially Recovered from Lockdown," that I mentioned in the intro. You can also subscribe for free. Visit postevangelicalpost.com to subscribe.

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This week I welcome R. Scott Okamato back to the show to discuss his book Asian American Apostate: Losing Religion and Finding Myself at an Evangelical University. We talk about his life as a professor at an evangelical college, the classroom experience, pushing back against Whiteness as an Asian American man, and how he found community on and off campus.

Scott is also the host of the Chapel Probation podcast. Blake was a guest! Check out Scott's prior appearance on Exvangelical.

Buy Scott's book from Bookshop.org and support this show. Use Kindle? Use this link.

Support this show via a paid subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post at $5/month or $50/year. Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC.

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In this short episode, I talk about some of the books I'm reading right now. I wrote about them earlier this week for Post-Ev Post.

The books discussed:

Asian American Apostate by R. Scott Okamoto.

Bookshop | Amazon

The Flowering Wand by Sophie Strand

Bookshop | Amazon

Finding the Fool by Meg Jones Wall

Bookshop | Amazon

The Heartland by Kristin L. Hoganson

Bookshop | Amazon

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC and a member of Irreverent Media Group.

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In this episode, I catch up with Holly Laurent from MEGA, the satirical improv show about a fictional megachurch. We last spoke in 2019, and a lot has changed since then.

We talk about improv, comedy & satire, and the upcoming MEGA spinoff, The Rise and Fall of Twin Hills.

Find out more about MEGA at their website.

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Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC, and a member of the Irreverent Media Group.

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New interviews are recorded and being planned, but not ready to be published. Various other commitments in life have taken precedent. In lieu of an interview, I'm publishing an audio version of an essay I wrote called "On Public & Private Griefs" last fall on The Post-Evangelical Post.

Thanks for listening.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC. The Post-Evangelical Post is a newsletter about belief, technology, and society--with a focus on US white evangelicalism. Subscribe for free or upgrade at $5/month or $50/year to receive ad-free podcast feeds and more. 25% of net proceeds are donated. Learn more at postevangelicalpost.com/support. Exvangelical is a part of Irreverent Media Group.

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In this episode, I interview Gloria Beth Amodeo, author of the memoir God's Ex-Girlfriend: A Memoir about Loving and Leaving the Evangelical Jesus. We talk about her college-age conversion to evangelicalism through Cru, how purity culture and gender norms are enforced, and much more in this wide-ranging conversation.

Support Gloria Beth Amodeo & Exvangelical by buying her book from The Post-Evangelical Posts's bookshop.org page - or if you prefer ebooks, from my Amazon affiliate link.

Follow Gloria Beth on Twitter.

Support this show and all of Blake's work with a $5/month subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post on Substack. Benefits include ad-free feeds, Discord access, a subscriber-only podcast, and exclusive writing. 25% of net proceeds are donated. Learn more at postevangelicalpost.com/support.

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This week’s guest is Lenny Duncan, author of the new book Dear Revolutionaries: A Field Guide for A World Beyond the Church. 

In this brief talk, Lenny and I discuss church, the thought leader industrial complex, and more.

A couple notes: we had a short window to talk, and I captured as much as I could during that time. You may hear some occasional sounds in the audio including from some bangles Lenny was wearing; I think it adds to the ambience personally, but your mileage may vary. 

Buy Lenny's book on Bookshop.org to support the show.

Follow Lenny's Substack, A Sorcerer's Notebook.

You can support my work by using the show notes link to buy Lenny’s book from Bookshop.org above , or by subscribing to The Post-Evangelical Post newsletter at $5/month or $50 year at postevangelicalpost.com. I donate 25% of net proceeds; check out the Support page to learn more. 

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In this short episode, I talk about producing 200 episodes of this show: how it started, where it's been, what might be next.

A new interview episode will be posted this week.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC.

Support this work via a subscription at $5/month or $50/year at postevangelicalpost.com. Benefits include ad-free podcast feeds, supporter-only podcast & writing, and Discord access.

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In this episode from 2020, I chat with Anne Helen Petersen about her book Can't Even: How Millennials Became the Burnout Generation (Amazon, Bookshop). We discuss her spiritual & religious background, her viral essay on BuzzFeed that led to this book, how the way we use social media contributes to burnout, how our economic systems fail us, and more. 

You can follow Anne on Twitter @annehelen and subscribe to her newsletter, Culture Study.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain, Instagram @brchastain_, and subscribe to his newsletter The Post-Evangelical Post.

This episode was produced by Jake Lewis.

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IN this chill conversation with return guest Kevin Garcia, I talk to them about what we should expect from community, how online communities don't reflect the ones we might have left, and how this balances out with our desire for personal autonomy after leaving unhealthy communities. We get into it. It's fun.

Follow Kevin on Instagram: @thekevingarcia.

Support this show via a $5/month subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post.

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Listeners, come see me w/ Brad Onishi of Straight White American Jesus & Tim Whitaker of The New Evangelicals in Philly on 2/11/23! Get tickets here and use code 50 at checkout to get 50% off!

It's an archival episode!

In September 2021, I spoke with Meghan O'Gieblyn, author of the new book God, Human, Animal, Machine: Technology, Metaphor, and the Search for Meaning. We talked about her time at Moody Bible Institute, experiencing 9/11 on a Christian campus, the similarities between Christian prophecy & secular transhumanism, and all sorts of other great things.

Buy Meghan's book on Bookshop.org or at your local independent bookstore. (Yes, that is an affiliate link, and it helps the show). Follow Meghan on Twitter.

Support the show directly via a subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post newsletter at $5/month or $50/year - 25% of net proceeds are donated to The Religious Exemption Accountability Project and White Homework. Follow Blake on Twitter, Instagram, or TikTok.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC and a part of the Irreverent Media Group podcast collective.

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In this episode, I speak with Teddy Wilson from Radical Reports about his experience covering the radical right. We talk about how important language is when identifying and discussing various groups, the transnational nature of nationalist movements, what we know about the Brazil insurrection so far—and finally, how “progressive” movements can respond to the rising tide of anti-democratic groups.

Follow Teddy on Twitter: @reportbywilson

Come see Blake, Bradley Onishi of Straight White American Jesus, and Tim Whitaker of The New Evangelicals in Philly on 2/11/23! Tickets here; use code "20" to get 20% off!

Support Exvangelical and all of Blake’s work by subscribing to The Post-Evangelical Post for $5/month or $50/year. 25% of net proceeds are donated. Free subscriptions are also available.

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Over at The Post-Evangelical Post, I've been writing about fictional religions for subscribers. As I wrote on 1/3/23: "When your faith of origin is also the origin of a grievous wound, there’s an odd solace to be found in knowingly made up things. Fiction, the old adage goes, is a lie that tells the truth—and there’s a lot of truth to be found in fictional religions."

This is an audio version of an essay published this week, "The Comfort of Fictional Religions: The Sensayers of Terra Ignota."

You can support this podcast & my other work at $5/month or $50/year. 25% of net proceeds are donated to White Homework & The Religious Exemption Accountability Project. Learn more at postevangelicalpost.com/support.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC.

Find links to follow Blake across the web at blakechastain.com

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Technical difficulties prevented me from publishing the episode planned for this week. Please let me know what you think of this shorter episode.

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Happy new year, everyone - the first guest of 2023 is a return guest, Bradley Onishi.

Brad is co-host of the Straight White American Jesus podcast and author of the new book: Preparing for War: The Extremist History of White Christian Nationalism—and What Comes Next.

Our conversation starts discussing just 10 words, just 2 sentences, from the first chapter of Brad's book: "I should have known better," and "I could have been there." "There," in this context, is the Capitol Riot.

This is a good one. Buckle in.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post. You can support this podcast and all my other work for just $5/month or $50/year - this is now the new ongoing price, not just a promotion. You'll get ad-free podcast feeds, bonus writing, and more. Subscribe at postevangelicalpost.com

This episode is also brought to you by DECON23, an upcoming virtual conference happening Jan 21-22, 2023. Tickets are just $25 and feature a diverse slate of speakers - J Crum, Rev Karla, April Ajoy, Jegaysus, and more. Visit decon2023.com to register.

This episode was edited by Podcat Audio.

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This is an audio version of my latest essay published at The Post-Evangelical Post: The Vibe Shift That Was Foretold Came, & Twitter Did Not Survive It.

Back in February, a time that feels much farther away than a mere 10 months ago, The Cut published an essay called “A Vibe Shift is Coming. Will any of us survive it?” It was a piece meant to get people talking, and it did. It featured a lot of coast-centric media bubble trendspotting talk mingled with pandemic lockdown introspection. But some of it resonated further—that something was in the air, ready to change the zeitgeist. I’ll contend that the shift was about social media itself.

Check out the whole essay, with links, at The Post-Evangelical Post. Subscribe for free or at $5/month and help support this show.

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This week's guest is Jenny Booth Potter, author of the book Doing Nothing Is No Longer An Option: One Woman's Journey Into Everyday Antiracism. Jenny is also the co-host of the web series The Next Question with Austin Channing Brown and Chi Chi Okwu. In this book, Jenny shares her own story of committing long-term to antiracism, challenging both herself and society to keep pressing forward. It's a great conversation and her book is a welcome starting point for any White person looking to unlearn racism and embrace antiracism.

You can follow Jenny on Instagram and visit her website here.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC. This episode was edited by Podcat Audio. Support the show at just $5/month and get ad-free podcasts and more.

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Today I'm happy to share with you an episode from a fellow Irreverent Media Group podcast called Speaking In Church.

If you're not aware, Exvangelical is part of the Irreverent Media Group podcast collective, and so is Speaking In Church. I thought it would be great to share with my audience an episode of their show.

This episode was recorded and published in September of this year with Josie Jimenez and Cameron Bishop.

Subscribe to Speaking In Church on Apple or Spotify. Follow them on Instagram!

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Angela Denker, pastor and author of the book Red State Christians (which was re-released this year with updated material), joins the show to discuss the 2022 midterms and how the political landscape continues to change. In particular she draws on her role serving a rural parish while living in an urban/suburban area, and the ways local relationships are more complex than simple media coverage portrays.

Pick up Red State Christians from my Bookshop.org affiliate link, or your local bookstore.

Follow Angela Denker's Substack: https://angeladenker.substack.com/

To learn more about Christian nationalism, register to attend the Straight White American Jesus live event: Christian Nationalism & The Future of Democracy. Use code SWAJ25 to get 25% off in-person or virtual tickets.

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Powers & Principalities is a show about the systems and institutions of white evangelical influence in America and the world.

Season 1, published in the fall of 2020, was all about white evangelicalism and Christian nationalism. Season 2 focuses on white evangelicalism & media. This is episode one.

Dating all the way back to at least the 19th century, the various groups we now refer to as White evangelicals have always been early adopters of new media formats. Whether it’s books, radio, tv, film, or any of their digital equivalents like podcasting, youtube, livestreaming, or influencer culture—evangelicals are always at the forefront of using new technology to spread their so-called old time religion. Ultimately, that perennial evangelical impulse is expressed as a desire to tell the Good News, the same good news that, etymologically speaking, is the origin of the term “evangelical” as ‘messenger’ or ‘one who announces’ - and that Good News is found in the Bible.

In order to share that news, it is necessary to share the Bible. And white evangelicals have built many institutions and businesses in order to do just that. The most recent and high-profile of these institutions is The Museum of the Bible in Washington, D.C. And that’s where this season begins.

My guests for this episode are Cavan Concannon and Jill Hicks-Keeton, authors of the new book Does Scripture Speak for Itself?: The Museum of the Bible and the Politics of Interpretation.

Their book takes a critical look at the Museum of the Bible, and the story it is hoping to tell about the Bible. As you’ll hear, it is a very particular perspective on the Bible, and it trying to legitimate that perspective on the national scale. By placing the Museum of the Bible in the long lineage of other evangelical institutions established with similar ends, Concannon and Hicks-Keeton provide a necessary critique of this most recent attempt to prioritize and prefer the evangelical perspective, to the detriment of all others who lay similar claim to Scriptures. I can wait for you to hear this conversation. 

Help support my work via a subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post. Subscribe for free, upgrade to a paid tier, and find other ways to support my work at postevangelicalpost.com/support.

Powers & Principalities is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC. This episode was produced by Podcat Audio. Theme music by Jacob Lewis.

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This week's guest is Jeanna Kadlec, author of the new book Heretic: A Memoir, out this week.

 Her book is a deeply intimate memoir of her life growing up in and leaving evangelicalism, discovering her queerness, and much more. We talk about the midwest, about developing spiritual practices after religion, and comics - it was a very laid back and meandering conversation that I hope you’ll enjoy as much as I did.

You can find Heretic at your local bookstore, or you can support this show by purchasing it via these Bookshop or Amazon links.

Find out about other ways to support my work at postevangelicalpost.com/support. You can subscribe for free, or at $4, $6, or $8 a month. 25% of net revenue is donated.

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My guest today is Becca Andrews. Becca is a journalist at Reckon News, and author of the new book No Choice: The Destruction of Roe v. Wade and the Fight to Protect a Fundamental American Right. She has been reporting on reproductive rights and justice, as well as related topics such as purity culture, for several years and her work has also appeared at Mother Jones, Jezebel, and Teen Vogue, among others.

Content note: I want to note that this episode deals directly with abortion and other aspects of reproductive care. For people in my age cohort—Elder Millennials and younger who grew up in conservative white evangelicalism, abortion was absolutely vilified, as were the people who needed them. This conversation starts there, and then looks at the history of reproductive care in the United States from the 19th century through today. I mention this near the end of my conversation with Becca, but I also want to mention it at the top - her book tells the stories of people in need of reproductive health care—including abortion—with tenderness and compassion. They are told in their contexts within the book; we do not appropriate them for this conversation. I highly recommend that you go out and purchase this book to read them for yourself. 

Learn more about Becca's work at https://becca-andrews.com/

Support my work by subscribing for free - or upgrade to paid at $4, $6, or $8 a month and get ad-free podcast feeds and more - at https://www.postevangelicalpost.com/about/.

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In this interview, I speak to Kristin Peterson, media studies professor at Boston College, about her book Unruly Souls: The Digital Activism of Muslim and Christian Feminists. We discuss the role social media has had in creating a counterpublic that challenges the dominant cultural narratives established by white evangelicalism and other religions. Her book covers aspects of #ChurchToo and other online movements that fall under the broad "deconstruction" umbrella, as well as how Muslims utilize media to critique their own traditions. It's a fascinating conversation and helps contextualize why these conversations that play out online matter--and why a media lens is helpful to understand them.

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Support my work via a subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post. You can subscribe for free, or at $4/6/8 per month; 25% of net revenue is donated. Learn more at https://www.postevangelicalpost.com/about.

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This week, I'm joined by Sarah Heath & Justin Gentry from the REVcovery podcast to talk about burnout. This is a long conversation, and it starts by talking about religious burnout for pastors and other highly-involved volunteers. We later transition into talking about post-religious burnout. Like any conversation, it's just a single convo, and not representative of all perspectives.

Listen to REVcovery wherever you find podcasts.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC. Support this show directly at postevangelicalpost.com. Subscribe for free, or at $4, $6, or $8/month to receive ad-free podcast feeds & more. I donate 25% of net proceeds to White Homework & The Religious Exemption Accountability Project. Free tiers are also available.

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Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg, author of the new book On Repentance and Repair: Making Amends in an Unapologetic World. This show is not typically interfaith, but when the opportunity to read Rabbi Ruttenberg’s latest arose, I leapt at the chance. I’ve followed her on Twitter for years and admire her work immensely. On Repentance and Repair is an immensely helpful book that helps reframe what repentance, repair, and forgiveness mean.

Those terms are loaded for people whose faith was formed in white evangelicalism. They have often been used and abused by people in positions of authority to manipulate those they’ve wronged into “forgiving” them as a way of absolving themselves and maintaining their positions of influence. Rabbi Ruttenberg explores the value and other meanings of these words in a way that can benefit all people, regardless of their faith or lack thereof. 

If you do not have a local bookstore or are in the Amazon ebook ecosystem, use this link to buy the book and to support the show.

How to support the show:

• You can rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
• You can tell people about the show.
• You can also support the show by subscribing to my Substack publication, The Post-Evangelical Post, for free, or upgrade to paid at $4, $6, or $8 per month and get access to:
• ad-free podcast feeds,
• Discord, and more.
• I donate 25% of my net revenue to The Religious Exemption Accountability Project and White Homework.

Post-Ev Post is where you’ll find all my writing and podcasting. Learn more at postevangelicalpost.com

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Another archival episode, in light of the news from The Village Church. Matt Chandler went on indefinite leave from TVC this weekend after inappropriate messaging on Instagram, just a couple weeks after they settled with an abuse victim while acknowledging no wrongdoing.

These are longstanding issues in evangelicalism going back decades. There's nothing pithy to say about churches that protect their shepherds instead of their flocks.

Here is my 2021 interview with Emily Joy Allison.

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While I continue to work on my manuscript, here is another archival episode for you. This is from my series, Powers & Principalities. Season 1 was published in 2020 and focused on Christian nationalism, which remains painfully relevant. 

This episode features a conversation with Sam Perry and Andrew Whitehead, co-authors of the book Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States [affiliate link]. 

While I personally think Christian nationalism is very hard to fully extricate from the traditions it inhabits and expresses itself in, I also think the terminology Perry & Whitehead use in their book, Ambassadors, Accommodators, Resisters, and Rejectors is very useful.

Of course, this conversation took place before the Jan 6 insurrection, where Christian nationalism was on full display, and before the slate of legislative decisions this summer, most notably the downfall of Roe, that are considered victories for by Christian nationalists. Meanwhile, the term “Christian nationalist” itself has since entered into the lexicon of conservative politicians and pundits as a point of pride. I wrote about this recently for RNS.

Perry & Whitehead have been busy since this book was published, as people across the country try . Perry co-authored another book, The Flag & The Cross [affiliate link], with Phillip Gorski, and Whitehead was recently a part of Jemar Tisby’s series “Those Meddling Kids: Unmasking the Anti-CRT Crusade in Christian Nationalism.”

I’ll be recording new episodes in the coming weeks, so hang tight. As always, you can support the show via a subscription to my newsletter, The Post-Evangelical Post. Visit postevangelicalpost.com to subscribe at $4, $6, or $8 per month. You’ll get ad-free podcast feeds, Discord access, and more. I donate 25% of net revenue to The Religious Exemption Accountability Project and White Homework.

You can also rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. 

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It's been a minute. While I'm working on my manuscript, please enjoy this 2017 interview I recorded with David Bazan from Pedro the Lion.

We recorded this interview in Bazan's car, between Living Room shows. It was incredible.

The original introduction of this conversation was kept for nostalgia, context, and ease. Original show notes here. To get to the interview, skip about 8 minutes forward (dynamic ads may add 1 more minute).

Thanks for listening. New episodes coming soon.

Read the 6 Years of Exvangelical post---at Post-Ev Post.

Support this show via The Post-Evangelical Post at $4, 6, or $8/month. 25% of net revenue is donated to The Religious Exemption Accountability Project and White Homework.

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In this episode, I adapt a couple of recent essays from The Post-Evangelical Post to discuss Christian nationalism.

As white evangelical hegemony ended, white Christian nationalist minority rule began.

Recommended Reading: Christian Nationalism on TikTok; Evangelical Lobbyists Praying with SCOTUS Justices, More

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC.

Subscribe to The Post-Evangelical Post to support the show at $4, $6, or $8/month to receive ad-free podcast feeds & more. I donate 25% of net proceeds to White Homework & The Religious Exemption Accountability Project. I have >70 paid supporters. Help me reach 100 by the end of July!

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Today’s guest is Jo Luehmann. Jo and I spoke back in March this year, after arranging to chat in late January, early February, so this episode has been a long time coming. 

In this conversation, you’ll hear Jo talk about growing up in Colombia, her experience within evangelical circles in America, and her work discussing decolonization. In the months following our discussion, Jo became a target of many far right figures such as Matt Walsh, who rallied their followers to harass Jo. The reason was ostensibly because of a tweet on abortion; because of this tweet, Jo was relentlessly harassed and forced to resign from her position on a school board in order to curtail the continued harassment. That particular event demonstrated the way in which the far right operates, and the lengths to which they will go to destabilize the lives of those whose speech they consider provocative or offensive, even as they do so with impunity. I confirmed with Jo prior to releasing this episode that she was ok with this conversation being posted.

Visit Jo's linktree to learn more about their work.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post. You can subscribe to my newsletter of the same name, The Post-Evangelical Post, at postevangelicalpost.com. That’s postevangelicalpost.com, because all my ideas begin as puns.

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Hello, and welcome to Exvangelical. I’m your host, Blake Chastain. I know there’s a lot going on. I know that the recent Supreme Court rulings are beyond discouraging - they are harmful for so many people, and a decision that could lead to the downfall of Roe is expected as soon as tomorrow. But multiple things happen all at once, and because of our interconnectedness, we feel them all. But I want to isolate one event happening right now and say: Happy Pride - especially to those born and raised in conservative evangelicalisms.

Thank you for being here and being you.

Listen to LGBTQ+ voices that have appeared on Exvangelical.

Subscribe to The Post-Evangelical Post newsletter - for free, or $4/6/8 per month. 25% of net proceeds are donated to White Homework and The Religious Exemption Accountability Project.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC.

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My guest today is Dr. Ryan Haupt. Ryan is a scientist and podcaster on the show Science...Sort of, and a frequent guest host on the comic book podcast iFanboy. iFanboy was one of the very first podcasts I ever listened to and after a couple of random interactions on Twitter - Ryan and I were able to connect to talk back at the beginning of February. 

This conversation runs the gamut. We talk about Ryan’s experience growing up in the church in West Virginia, about discovering science in college, and the particular grief that can come from a philosophical or faith shift. We also talk about comics! One note: We had several production difficulties during this recording session because an errant setting on my computer kept forcing it to shutdown. Thankfully, Ryan had a backup of both of our tracks, and we were able to continue. My additional thanks to Liz Nordenholt of Podcat Audio for her work in editing this episode in particular. It's a longer one!

Follow Ryan on Twitter, and listen to him on Science...Sort Of and iFanboy!

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post. There’s several ways you can support my work. The most direct way is to become a patron/paid subscriber of my Substack, The Post-Evangelical Post. You can subscribe at 4, 6, 8/month and you will get ad-free podcast feeds as well as Discord access and subscriber-exclusive writing. There’s also free tiers, where you’ll get my writing, show notes, etc. 

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This week’s guest is Rohadi Nagassar, host of the Faith in a Fresh Vibe podcast and author of the new book When We Belong: Reclaiming Christianity on the Margins. We talk about identity, the differences and similarities between Canadian and American churches, and much more!

This interview was recorded in February 2022.

Check out Rohadi’s podcast, and follow him on Instagram.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC. Subscribe for free at postevangelicalpost.com or $4, $6, or $8 and get ad-free podcasts, subscriber exclusive posts, and more.

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Note: there is a leveling discrepancy between the intro comments and the interview, which begins around the 10:30 mark.

There's been two major shootings in the last two weeks. I try to piece together some thoughts, and combine a couple things from recent essays, in the intro to this re-released episode with Robert Jones. I guess it's best to just listen.

Essays I adapt for the intro:

Let the circle be broken.

Live Free and Die.

The interview is part of season 1 of Powers & Principalities, which is about white evangelicalism & Christian nationalism.

Interview description:

My guest is Robert Jones, founder and CEO of PRRI (The Public Religion Research Institute), and author of the recent book White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity (Amazon, Bookshop). In this discussion, we talk about how his book reveals the ways white American Christianity's history of white supremacy pervades all denominations - white evangelicals, mainline Protestants, and white Catholics. We discuss the "restricted moral vision" of white Christians, the findings of the Racism Index, and much more.

Boilerplate:

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC. Support this show and all of Blake's work at $4, $6, or $8 per month at postevangelicalpost.com and get ad-free podcast feeds, access to the supporter Discord, and subscriber-exclusive posts. 25% of net revenue from subscriptions is donated.

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My guest today is Nick Ripatrizone. Nick is a writer for The Millions, culture editor for Image Journal and author of the new book Digital Communion: Marshall McLuhan’s Vision for a Virtual Age.

Marshall McLuhan was a "prophet of the digital age," whose prescient writings about "electronic man" in the 60s and 70s anticipated the effects that new media such as television and what he called "electric circuitry" would have on individuals and society. (The tech-oriented "Shaped by Tools" vertical of The Post-Evangelical Post is named after the McLuhan axiom "First we shape our tools, and thereafter our tools shape us."

Ripatrizone's book explores how McLuhan's religious convictions (he was nominally raised Protestant in Canada, and converted to Catholicism during early adulthood) and outlook informed how he saw the world.

This is a really fascinating conversation and I hope you'll check out Nick's book, as well as McLuhan's, after listening.

Follow Nick on Twitter and buy his book via your local bookstore or Bookshop.org (affiliate link).

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC. Support this show and all of Blake's work at $4, $6, or $8 per month at postevangelicalpost.com and get ad-free podcast feeds, access to the supporter Discord, and subscriber-exclusive posts. 25% of net revenue from subscriptions is donated.

McLuhan's books:

The Medium is the Massage

Understanding Media

Listen to The Medium is the Massage album on Spotify.

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I'm honored to share this conversation with Andre Henry with you today. Andre Henry is an author, musician, and activist, and author of the book All the White Friends I Couldn't Keep: Hope--and Hard Pills to Swallow--About Fighting for Black Lives (affiliate link to Bookshop.org).

We talk about Andre's experience in white evangelical environments, as well as how his increasing activism for racial justice made staying in white evangelical spaces untenable. His story and work is not limited to interactions with white evangelicalism, however, and we touch on many more topics throughout this conversation.

Learn more about Andre and the breadth of his work at andrehenry.co.

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Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC. Support The Post-Evangelical Post at $4, $6, or $8 per month and get access to ad-free podcast feeds, a supporter discord, subscriber-only content, and more. 25% of net proceeds from subscriptions are donated each month. Learn more at postevangelicalpost.com/about. Free tiers are also available.

Not interested in ongoing subscriptions? One-time tipping is accepted via Venmo.

Find links to Blake's social pages at https://blakechastain.com

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April Ajoy joins the show! You probably know her from TikTok, where she creates at turns funny and serious videos about "humorously detoxing American Christianity." We learn about her story, about how she got started on TikTok, and more!

Check out all of April's projects:

TikTok

The Evangelicalish podcast

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC. You can support the show at $4, $6, or $8/month at postevangelicalpost.com and get access to ad-free podcast feeds, subscriber-only content, and the PEP Discord. I donate 25% of net proceeds each month to groups that serve populations harmed by white evangelicalism.

Find links to all my social media accounts at blakechastain.com

This episode was edited by Elizabeth Nordenholt of Podcat Audio.

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This was also published as an essay at The Post-Evangelical Post.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC.

Learn how to support my work here.

There are many resources about reproductive health available. If you want to approach it from an interfaith lens, start here. A reproductive rights advocate I've had on the show, Asha Dahya, can be followed on Instagram. Her episode is here.

Links:

https://postevangelicalpost.com

https://instagram.com/brchastain_

https://exvangelicalpodcast.com

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In this audio essay, adapted from The Post-Evangelical Post, I talk about Twitter's role in allowing "counterpublics" to flourish - and how #exvangelical relates to that.

New interviews are coming - due to my recent ear surgery I am still restricted from listening to audio in both ears - which makes editing podcasts difficult. I am enlisting another producer to help.

Please consider becoming a paid supporter of my work via The Post-Evangelical Post. There are free options, as well as tiers at $4, $6, or $8 per month. I donate 25% of net revenue each month.

Follow me on Twitter, TikTok, or Instagram.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC.

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It’s been over a month since I’ve released an episode. That was not my plan nor intention. But sometimes life intervenes. Just shy of a month ago, I had surgery to repair a lifelong issue with my ear - ruptured ear drum, and the recovery took much longer than I expected. It required me to slow down. I wrote about this over on my newsletter, The Post-Evangelical Post. 

I have 6 episodes recorded that need editing, which I will get to releasing soon. In the meantime, enjoy this interview with Pete Holmes from 2019.

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If you find this podcast meaningful, please consider supporting my work via Substack at postevangelicalpost.com. Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post - a publication about belief, technology, and society, with a focus on white evangelical influence in American society. Much of this audio essay originally appeared as an entry there. In addition to Exvangelical, I also have a tech series called Shaped by Tools, and a book series called The Good Books. You can subscribe to my newsletter for free, and paid tiers are available at $4, $6, or $8 a month.

Supporters receive ad-free podcast feeds to Exvangelical and Powers & Principalities, subscriber-only content, and Discord access. I donate 25% of net revenue to organizations that serve populations harmed by white evangelicalism, including White Homework and The Religious Exemption Accountability Project. While exvangelical and deconstruction content is certainly being widely discussed right now, bear in mind that this work is largely self-funded and is pushing back against evangelical entities like The Gospel Coalition that count their annual revenue in the millions.

Your support will allow me to continue my work. Learn more at postevangelicalpost.com

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Even though my relationship to religion is always shifting, some of the rituals and symbolism have more resonance than others. For me, in recent years Lent has been the most meaningful part of the Christian tradition, even if I'm not sure where I fall in relation to it.

In this audio essay, I explore the both-and nature of Lent - through denial and affirmation.

"I have made it a focus of both this show and my writing that, to me, the term ‘exvangelical’ has its limits. I understand that it is inherently negative, in that it describes a former relationship. It also describes a formative relationship of incredible significance. As a term, as an identity marker, it is at once a recognition and renunciation of a certain type of belief and belonging. That is significant in and of itself. But it is a denial without a prescribed affirmation. What one chooses to affirm is up to them."

In this 10 minute essay, I go into more detail.

The transcript will be posted to postevangelicalpost.com later today. Support my work for $4/6/8 per month and get access to ad-free podcast feeds, Discord, and subscriber-only posts.

Follow me on Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post and part of Irreverent Media Group. Check out more shows irreverent.fm.

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RE-RELEASE:

Dr. Anthea Butler returns to the show (she was a guest on season one of Powers & Principalities) to discuss her new book, White Evangelical Racism. Her book is of utmost importance to helping us understand both our past and our current moment. We discuss the history of white evangelical racism, and how it played a part in the Jan 6th insurrection and the murders in Atlanta in March 2021.

I also wrote about the book in my new series, The Good Books, published via my newsletter The Post-Evangelical Post. Help support the show directly via a paid subscription to the newsletter. (Free tiers are also available.)

Stay tuned for more news about the show next week!

This interview was recorded on 3/19/2021.

Follow Dr. Butler on Twitter @AntheaButler.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain, and follow the show on Instagram @exvangelicalpod.

This episode was produced and edited by Jake Lewis.

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In this conversation, I speak with exvangelical Tiktokker Melissa Stewart (@lissajostewart) about her upbringing, how exvangelical spaces continue to evolve, and how platform differences (i.e. Twitter vs. TikTok) enable different conversations - and much more! As I mention in the introduction, note how Melissa talks about her experiences leaving fundamentalism, and how it differs from the way evangelical pastors who decry "deconstruction" or some other rhetorical bogeyman.

#exvangelical has taken on a life of its own on TikTok, with 633 million views as of this writing. Melissa talks about her own experience as an observer of these spaces, and a bit about what it has been like to become a creator in the space.

We couldn't cover every aspect of these topics in our conversation, but the great thing about our media landscape is that the conversation can continue. Follow Melissa @lissajostewart and follow Blake @brchastain_ on TikTok.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post. You can support the show at $4, $6, or $8 a month and get access to ad-free podcast feeds, a supporter Discord, and subscriber-only posts. Find out more at postevangelicalpost.com

Exvangelical is part of the Irreverent Media Group. Check out all our podcasts!

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In this episode I chat with fellow IMG podcasters, Justin Gentry & Sarah Heath about their new show, Revcovery.

Revcovery is all about the process of leaving the ministry profession. We cover a lot in the first half before turning our attention to the recent Vanity Fair profile of Jerry Falwell, Jr., and the confounding Christianity Today piece by Russell Moore.

Find out more about Revcovery on irreverent.fm/show/revcovery.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post. Support my work directly at $4, $6, or $8/month and get access to ad-free podcast feeds, subscriber exclusive writing, Discord access, and more. Learn more at postevangelicalpost.com/subscribe. A free tiers is also available.

Exvangelical is part of the Irreverent Media Group. Check out irreverent.fm for more shows.

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In this audio essay, Blake talks frankly about how social media exacerbated a dark day he had recently, how social media affects emotions, and how our relationship to identifiers and communities change over time.

Throughout 2022 I will be experimenting more with formats and episode types in the feed. Please let me know what you think by sending an email or reaching out on social media.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, a reader-supported publication. You can subscribe for $4, $6, and $8 a month to get access to ad-free podcast feeds, exclusive content, and Discord access.

📞 Have a question for the show? Visit exvangelicalpodcast.com to send an email or leave a voicemail for the show.

🕸 Find out more about Blake and follow links to his work & social media profiles at blakechastain.com.

📥 Subscribe to The Post-Evangelical Post.

👕 Buy Exvangelical merch.

🌐 Exvangelical is part of the Irreverent Media Group.

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In this bonus episode of Powers & Principalities, I share my conversation with Chrissy Stroop on the inauspicious anniversary of the Jan 6 Capitol Riot. (One trigger/content note, we talk about Satanic Panic & child abuse in one section). We discuss the lead-up to Trump, the Trump administration, the insurrection, and the Big Lie that has taken root. We also talk about shifts in conversation around religion & Christianity in America, and look ahead at what political fights are to come.

Powers & Principalities and Exvangelical are productions of The Post-Evangelical Post. You can support my work directly at postevangelicalpost.com, and you'll gain access to ad-free feeds, Discord, subscriber-only posts, and more to come in 2022.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain.

Follow Chrissy Stroop on Twitter @c_stroop.

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In this interview I chat with R. Scott Okamoto about music, life as a Christian college professor, and much more. Scott will also be hosting the upcoming exvangelical podcast, Chapel Probation. Learn more about Scott at his website, https://www.rscottokamoto.com/, and follow him on Twitter and Instagram.

Help support this show via a paid subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post at $4, $6, or $8/month. Benefits include ad-free podcast feeds, exclusive content, and Discord access. Find all this and more, including my social accounts, at https://linktr.ee/brchastain.

Exvangelical is part of the Irreverent Media Group. Find more content at https://irreverent.fm.

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In this mini, Blake talks about the recent spat of discussion about exvangelicals and people deconstructing that is happening.

Parts of this script are adapted from Blake's twitter feed & newsletter.

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I spoke to author Jeff Sharlet in November 2020, just after the election was called for Biden - but Trump was already signaling that he would not concede. The Jan 6 insurrection had not yet happened, but what would become The Big Lie had already begun to take root from those early days.

I'm re-releasing another episode of Powers & Principalities Season 1 again, because these conversations continue to be relevant. New conversations are coming soon.

Find the entirety of Season 1 of Powers & Principalities on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts for discussions with Kristin Kobes Du Mez, Sarah Posner, Julie Ingersoll, Bradley Onishi, Katherine Stewart, Anthea Butler, Diana Butler Bass, Sam Perry & Andrew Whitehead, Jack Jenkins, and Reza Aslan.

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In this episode, I talk with fellow IMG podcaster Bradley Onishi about how things have developed in the last year since the 2020 election. In that time we've seen Trump's decisive electoral loss, the Jan 6th insurrection, the entrenchment of The Big Lie within the GOP, and vaccine hesitancy. We've also seen reasons for hope. We talk about it all. This is an unedited conversation, recorded live-to-tape on November 4th, 2021.

Read Brad's NYT editorial about the insurrection here, and support Straight White American Jesus on Patreon.

I'm also writing a book! Read the announcement here.

Subscribe to my newsletter at postevangelicalpost.substack.com - 25% of net revenue goes to organizations that serve communities harmed by white evangelicalism.

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This past July marked 5 years of publishing Exvangelical. In this minisode, I describe my new funding/listener support model.

Read the full post here.

When you support the show via Substack, I will donate 25% of net revenue to organizations that serve populations harmed by white evangelicalism. Those organizations are: White Homework, The Religious Trauma Institute, and REAP (The Religious Exemption Accountability Project).

Support the show at $8/month and receive access to ad-free feeds of Exvangelical and Powers & Principalities, and supporter-exclusive writing at The Post-Evangelical Post, with more perks to come in 2022.

Learn more at The Post-Evangelical Post.

Why this model?

Because I think it’s the right thing to do. I am building this from the ground-up with no outside funding, and have an opportunity to build a business model that includes reparative economics from the beginning. My work focuses on the personal & social impact of white evangelicalism. By committing to donate a significant percentage of my net revenue to organizations that serve communities that have been historically harmed by white evangelicalism, I am able to quite literally put my money where my mouth is. Further, I know that I cannot (and should not) try to speak to every potential audience—but I can help to finance the work of others who are better equipped than me to do so.

I also acknowledge that the work I do is sensitive, and as a cis white man asking for direct support, it may activate some traumas that my own potential audience of supporters has. So long as we remain a capitalist society that does not provide universal basic income nor universal health care, that will remain an unavoidable tension and reality when I seek direct payment for my output. I hope to address some of that tension through this model.

This model isn't perfect, but it is within my capacity to start here and in this manner.

Thanks for listening. New episodes coming soon!

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In this episode, I chat with Paul Southwick & Erin Green of The Religious Exemption Accountability Project (REAP). Paul Southwick (he/him) is Director of REAP, and Erin Green (she/they) is REAP's Campus & Alumni Organizer.

REAP has filed a landmark class action lawsuit, Elizabeth Hunter, et al. v. U.S. Department of Education, that challenges the religious exemption Christian college and other religious colleges use to deny LGBTQ+ students Title IX protections - and still receive federal funding. Learn more about the lawsuit and REAP's work at thereap.org.

CW: this conversation includes discussion of sexual and gender discrimination and other forms of abuse.

We talk about how LGBTQ+ students are treated by college administrations, how LGBTQ+ students end up at religious colleges, the history of religious colleges resisting civil rights, and why a formal legal challenge is important.

Support the show via a subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post. Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain.

Buy merch: https://exvangelical.threadless.com/

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On 9/9/21, I spoke with Meghan O'Gieblyn, author of the new book God, Human, Animal, Machine: Technology, Metaphor, and the Search for Meaning. We talked about her time at Moody Bible Institute, experiencing 9/11 on a Christian campus, the similarities between Christian prophecy & secular transhumanism, and all sorts of other great things.

Buy Meghan's book on Bookshop.org or at your local independent bookstore. (Yes, that is an affiliate link, and it helps the show). Follow Meghan on Twitter.

Support the show directly via a subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post newsletter. Follow Blake on Twitter, Instagram, or TikTok.

Exvangelical is a production of The Post-Evangelical Post, LLC and a part of the Irreverent Media Group podcast collective.

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Recorded on 9/1/2021, I spoke with Peterson Toscano all the way in South Africa. Peterson is podcaster, performer, climate activist, and biblical scholar. In this conversation, Peterson talks about activism, trauma, and recognizing when to move on to other projects. We also talk about curiosity, the role of relationships in activism & He-Man!

Learn all about Peterson's projects at https://petersontoscano.com/

Support my work via a subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post newsletter.

Follow me on Twitter @brchastain, and on Instagram & TikTok.

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In light of the TX SB8 law going into effect, and SCOTUS' refusal to strike it down, I am re-releasing this episode I recorded with Katherine Stewart, author of The Power Worshippers: Inside the Dangerous Rise of Religious Nationalism. This book is extremely helpful in detailing the strategies and tactics employed by Christian nationalist politicians and their allies.

This interview part of Season 1 of Powers & Principalities. Listen to that season here.

Follow me on Twitter @brchastain, on Instagram/TikTok @brchastain_.

Support the shows & my writing at The Post-Evangelical Post.

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Jamie Lee Finch, author of You Are Your Own, returns to the show!

We had been planning to talk this month for quite some time, but our conversation has a different tenor than we anticipated. This is one conversation among many about issues surrounding exvangelical/deconstruction spaces--and this has happened before. Listen to the show for further context, but we’re still going to try and talk about why things like these moments of drama happen, and why these cycles of commentary occur: what is general to the types of conversations we have now, and what is particular to post-evangelical spaces and the sorts of traumas that are activated.

I've been talking about this in various ways on other shows recently, including these conversations with Your Favorite Aunts & Activist Theology.

We also talk about Jamie's upcoming course, Your Body Is a Person. Registration closes on 8/31/2021, so act fast!

One production note: the wrong mic recorded my audio, so it's of lower quality.

Support my work via a subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post. Follow me @brchastain on Twitter, @brchastain_ on Instagram & TikTok, and follow the podcasts @exvangelicalpod on Instagram.

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Earlier this month, Tucker Carlson broadcast from Hungary. This was not an accident, as many figures in the Christian Right and far-right have cozied up to European autocrats like Hungary's leader, Viktor Orban. There's always a lot of simultaneous crises happening (the climate crisis, Afghanistan, the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, and more), but I think it might be beneficial to loop back to this story and learn what we can from Sarah Posner, author of Unholy: How White Christian Nationalists Powered the Trump Presidency, and What They Left Behind. I spoke with Sarah Posner last year on Powers & Principalities.

Follow Sarah on Twitter.

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This week, I spoke with Kevin Garcia & Rev. Sarah Heath (aka YFA, or Your Favorite Aunts). This is part 2 of our conversation, and you can hear part 1 over on Your Favorite Aunts!

This conversation has a chill vibe. It's the type of quiet conversation you have in the corner at a party. I don't know about you, but that's not something I've experienced in well over a year, so this conversation ended up meaning a lot. We talk about how the pandemic affects caretakers, how it affects community, what the future of spiritual care and community might be, and whether math involves gnomes.

Listen to Your Favorite Aunts. Follow Kevin. Follow Sarah.

To support my work, sign up for The Post-Evangelical Post. You can also buy merch! Follow me on Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok. Follow the show on Instagram.

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Kelsey McKinney, co-owner & features writer for Defector.com and author of the debut novel God Spare the Girls, joins the show! We talk about her novel, how getting to know people outside the evangelical bubble changes your perspective, her experiences in the media, and much more.

God Spare the Girls tells the story of two daughters of a megachurch pastor whose rise to evangelical fame came from a viral speech about purity culture - and that's just how the story starts. When news of their father's marital infidelity breaks in their church, the two sisters are drawn together in ways they never were before. It's a great read.

Buy God Spare the Girls here and support the show! (Affiliate link.) Follow Kelsey McKinney on Twitter.

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We're back! July was very busy, and I'm super excited to get back to releasing episodes for you. A lot happened elsewhere:

1. Exvangelical turned 5!
2. I wrote a piece for Religion Dispatches about David Jeremiah's sermon saying exvangelicals are a sign of the end times!
3. I was on MSNBC's The Week with Joshua Johnson!
4. Other stuff I can't wait to tell you about, but can't yet!

Support the show through a subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post. Follow Blake on Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok.

Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook.

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The hosts of Good Christian Fun join the show to talk about Christian school (with goats!), satellite home school curricula (Covenant Eyes included!) and much more!

Follow GCF on Instagram, and Kevin & Caroline on there too.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain.

Support the show via Substack.

This episode was produced by Jake Lewis, thank you Jake!

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This week's guest is IMG's very own Josie Jimenez! Josie is the co-host of Irreverent Media Group's Making Spaces podcast as well as the podcast Speaking in Church. We talked on a Sunday afternoon and things got a little silly, talking about Josie's life, why expecting people to be the same is so damn boring, and all sorts of other stuff.

Listen to Making Spaces with Josie Jimenez & Rev. Sarah Heath.

Listen to Speaking in Church with Josie Jimenez & Spencer Rose Taylor.

Follow Josie on Instagram & Twitter.

Support Exvangelical, Powers & Principalities, and all of Blake's projects by subscribing to The Post-Evangelical Post.

Follow Blake on Twitter & the show on Instagram.

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Emily Joy Allison returns to Exvangelical to talk about #SBC21, the recent departures of Beth Moore & Russell Moore (no relation) from the denomination, and her own direct action through protest. We also discuss the conservative resurgence in other denominations, how the media (and post-evangelicals of all stripes online) discuss bad theology, and how to respond to these types of conservative initiatives.

This was recorded on Tuesday, June 15th 2021 and was not edited because the events we're discussing are timely and in-flux.

You can follow Emily on Twitter @emilyjoypoetry. Buy her book, Church Too: How Purity Culture Upholds Abuse and How to Find Healing.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain. Support this podcast directly through a paid subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post.

This is an Irreverent Media Group podcast.

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This week I'm publishing an episode of fellow Irreverent Media Group podcaster Kevin Garcia's show A Tiny Revolution. It's Pride Month and ATR is running a special series in conjunction with Beloved Arise. Listen to this episode featuring an interview with Blake Mundell to learn more about Beloved Arise.

Subscribe to A Tiny Revolution anywhere you listen to podcasts, and follow Kevin on Instagram & Twitter.

Kevin (they/them) describes ATR like this:

"Because all revolutions begin as conversations between friends. Join digital pastor and soul coach Kevin Garcia for a conversation that actually matters. Covering the intersections of spirit, sexuality, gender, and justice, Kevin curates convos with the brightest and most incredible humans that you may or may not have heard of, with delicious takes on faith, sexuality, practice, and how we do this life together." 

Learn more about the Irreverent Media Group line-up at irreverent.fm or by following @irreverent_fm on Instagram.

Follow Blake on Twitter, and support the show directly at postevangelicalpost.com.

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This episode is a re-release of my first interview with Mark Russell, author of several books including Second Coming, God is Disappointed in You, Apocrypha Now!, The Flintstones, Snagglepuss, Wonder Twins, Billionaire Island, and more. Superhero movies are returning to theaters soon, and I'm resurfacing this conversation because I think of it a lot when I think of superhero narratives in general.

Mark Russell is one of my favorite comic book writers, whose ability to provide satirical and insightful social commentary through popular characters like The Flintstones, or subvert superhero tropes in books like The Wonder Twins sets him apart from other writers on the scene.

Of particular interest to listeners of this show, he also writes the comic book Second Coming - a story of Jesus coming back to Earth to room with a Superman-type character. The mere announcement of this book was so 'controversial' that it led to an online petition that quite literally canceled the book before it was published by DC Comics.

I talked to Mark about that book in particular in this episode: Mark Russell, author of Second Coming. I wrote about it here.

-

If you appreciate this show, support it via a paid subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post. Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain and follow the podcast @exvangelicalpod on Twitter & Instagram.

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This week's guest is Beth Allison Barr, author of the new book The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth. I'm joined by two guest co-hosts, Emily Autenrieth and Laura Navarro.

The theology and practice of complementarianism in conservative Christian circles has shaped the lives of millions of women. For over a century, it has oppressed women and become a requirement for involvement and belonging in conservative churches. Dr. Barr's expertise in church history illustrates that - despite the claims of complementarianism's proponents - this is a newer understanding of Christian history and scripture, and not an unchanging, millennia-long orthodox belief.

This is a book that will spur conversation inside and outside the church. You can purchase the book here or from A Seat at the Table Books.

Follow Dr. Barr on Twitter: @bethallisonbarr

Order books from A Seat at the Table Books.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain, and follow the podcast on Twitter & Instagram @exvangelicalpod.

This episode was produced by Jake Lewis. Thank you, Jake!

Exvangelical is part of Irreverent Media Group. Learn more at irreverent.fm.

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This week's guest is Rev. Lenny Duncan. Lenny is a pastor and the author of two books: Dear Church: A Love Letter from a Black Preacher to the Whitest Denomination in the US, and the forthcoming United States of Grace: A Memoir of Homelessness, Addiction, Incarceration, and Hope.

In this conversation we talk about Rev. Duncan's life, his books, Christianity in America, and America overall. Please note there were some technical difficulties with this recording.

Follow Lenny on Twitter and visit unitedstatesofgrace.com.

Follow Blake on Twitter, subscribe to his newsletter, and visit his website.

Exvangelical is part of the Irreverent Media Group. Visit irreverent.fm to see all the other shows.

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Exvangelical is now a part of the Irreverent Media Group! Visit irreverent.fm to learn more about this new collective.

Follow Irreverent on social:

twitter.com/irreverent_fm

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Dr. Anthea Butler returns to the show (she was a guest on season one of Powers & Principalities) to discuss her new book, White Evangelical Racism. Her book is of utmost importance to helping us understand both our past and our current moment. We discuss the history of white evangelical racism, and how it played a part in the Jan 6th insurrection and the murders in Atlanta in March 2021.

I also wrote about the book in my new series, The Good Books, published via my newsletter The Post-Evangelical Post. Help support the show directly via a paid subscription to the newsletter. (Free tiers are also available.)

Stay tuned for more news about the show next week!

This interview was recorded on 3/19/2021.

Follow Dr. Butler on Twitter @AntheaButler.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain, and follow the show on Instagram @exvangelicalpod.

This episode was produced and edited by Jake Lewis.

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Emily Joy Allison returns to the show to discuss her new book, #ChurchToo: How Purity Culture Upholds Abuse and How to Find Healing. Emily launched the #ChurchToo hashtag in November 2017 and it has taken on a life of its own, calling churches to account. You can follow Emily on Twitter and Instagram.

I'm also joined by guest co-host Amy Congdon, a clinical mental health counselor in the Kansas City, MO metro area whos work focuses on providing care to clients who have experienced religious trauma and seek to find healing from these wounds. This includes concerns around sex and sexuality, gender, reproductive rights, and racial injustice.

I wrote about #ChurchTooBook in a new series for my newsletter called The Good Books. Subscribe to my newsletter, The Post-Evangelical Post, here. There are free and paid options; Substack is currently the main source of support for this show.

I also wrote about the role of purity culture in the shootings in Atlanta here, and included some comments made by Emily.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain. Follow the show on Instagram @exvangelicalpod.

This episode was produced by Jake Lewis. Thank you, Jake!

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In this episode, I chat with Andrew Phelan and John Potter from Magnified Pod. Their show focuses on Tooth & Nail era Christian alt music - season 1 focused on the MXPX discography, and season 2 focused on Five Iron Frenzy.

In this conversation, we learn about Andrew & John's stories, the power of music and memory even after our beliefs change, and what it was like becoming friends with Five Iron band members.

Check out their podcast here, follow them on Twitter @magnifiedpod, and support them on Patreon!

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain, follow the show on Instagram @exvangelicalpod, and support him via Substack at postevangelicalpost.substack.com

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Laura Polk returns to the show to discuss the Jan 6th insurrection and the Religious Right. In particular, we discuss three pivotal events in 1980, and how they set the stage for much of what's followed. This interview was recorded on 2/7/2021.

Laura Polk is an independent educator and researcher. You can support her via Patreon here. (I do!) 

Follow Laura on Twitter @seelolago.

You can support Blake's work on Exvangelical and Powers & Principalities via Substack at The Post-Evangelical Post.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain and the show on Instagram at @exvangelicalpod.

This episode was produced by Jake Lewis. Thank you, Jake!

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Chris Stedman is a Minneapolis-based writer, speaker, and community organizer. In this conversation, we discuss his book IRL: Finding Realness, Meaning, and Belonging in Our Digital Lives, how people form and express their identities online, spirituality "fads," and much more!

(This conversation was recorded on January 4th, 2021, two days before the insurrection and the rest of the country went topsy turvy.)

Follow Chris on Twitter!

Support this podcast (and sister podcast Powers & Principalities) through a paid subscription to Blake's newsletter, The Post-Evangelical Post.

Follow Blake on Twitter and Instagram.

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It's 2021. 

Ossoff & Warnock won the Senate, and the next day Trump supporters stormed the Capitol Building after being incited by the President himself and encouraged by Senators Cruz and Hawley. 5 people died. 

White evangelicalism bears much of the burden for this by creating an environment--over decades!--that encouraged this. 

This episode is only partly scripted. It's unedited.

"Regular" programming will return soon. Follow me on Twitter @brchastain.

Help support my work: postevangelicalpost.substack.com or patreon.com/exvangelicalpod. 

Show Notes/Recent writing: 

https://postevangelicalpost.substack.com/p/the-culmination-of-white-evangelicalchristian

https://postevangelicalpost.substack.com/p/how-should-we-then-live-with-evangelical

Twitter thread, before the white supremacist storming of the Capitol: https://twitter.com/brchastain/status/1346452589752307712?s=20

Mel's short thread I quoted: https://twitter.com/holyqueerit/status/1347191675706372097?s=20

--- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/exvangelical/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/exvangelical/support

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My guests for this episode are The Dirty Rotten Church Kids, aka Josh Link & Adrian Gibbs.

The DRCK has taken exvangelical Instagram by storm over the past year, and their podcast has created its own community that is in their words, equal parts HEAVY and LIGHT. In this conversation we discuss their backgrounds as church kids, church planters, their deconstruction, and parenting. It's a great conversation and I hope you enjoy it. 

Follow DRCK on Instagram, subscribe to their podcast, and check out their merch.  

This episode was produced by Jake Lewis. Thank you, Jake!

--

HAVE YOU NOTICED THE NEW PODCAST ARTWORK? It's by the incredible artist Jenna Luecke. Please read my Instagram post about the process and check out her amazing work. You can also find merch with two versions of the new logo on the new Exvangelical Podcast Merch store!

Support the show via a paid subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post newsletter, or by rating the show in Apple Podcasts.

Follow Blake on Twitter, and find links to all his projects at blakechastain.com

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In the season 1 finale of Powers & Principalities, I speak with Reza Aslan about what we've learned about the United States in the past four years. In particular, we discuss what it means that 70 million Americans voted for Trump to be re-elected, the cult-like characteristics of Trumpism, the 'geography of identity' of Trumpism, the role of the media, and much more.

Reza Aslan is author of several books, including God: A Human History, Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth, and Beyond Fundamentalism. He is also Professor of Creative Writing at the University of California, Riverside and executive producer of Rough Draft with Reza Aslan and the CNN documentary series, Believer.

Stay tuned after the interview for more info on season 2 of Powers & Principalities.

Follow Reza on Twitter @rezaaslan and learn more about his work at rezaaslan.com.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain and Instagram @brchastain_. 

Support Blake's work via a subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post newsletter - use this link to save 40% for 1 year thru 12/2! Other methods of support can be found at exvangelicalpodcast.com/support.

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In this episode, I speak with Jeff Sharlet, author of The Family (which was turned into a Netflix documentary series of the same name). We discuss the actions of President Trump and the GOP to undermine the results of the election, the role of QAnon, "police nationalism," and much more.

Read Jeff Sharlet's missives from the Trump campaign rallies in Vanity Fair and follow him on Twitter.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain, and follow him on Instagram @brchastain_.

Support the show with a subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post. Free and paid tiers are available. Other methods of support can be found here.

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Prof. Bradley Onishi from Straight White American Jesus returns to the show to discuss Election Week. We discuss the historical significance of the election of Vice President Kamala Harris, the decisive victory of Joe Biden & the GOP's refusal to concede, and what comes next. 

Follow Brad on Twitter @BradleyOnishi and listen to Straight White American Jesus if you aren't already!

Follow Blake @brchastain on Twitter & @brchastain_ on Instagram. Support the show via a subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post, or other methods found at exvangelicalpodcast.com/support.

This episode was produced by Jake Lewis. Thank you, Jake!

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Some initial thoughts on the 2020 Election. Acknowledging what was accomplished, and the work that still needs to be done.

Follow Blake on Twitter and subscribe to The Post-Evangelical Post, where you will find a corresponding transcript, along with some additional links.

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We're one day out until the November 3rd election. In this brief episode, Blake reviews this season's guests and the threats that remain regardless of the outcome of election day.

If you haven't voted early, please make your plan to vote and make your voice heard. Use the Vote Save America to make your plan to vote.

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My guest this week is Jack Jenkins, national reporter for Religion News Service and author of the book American Prophets: The Religious Roots of Progressive Politics and the Ongoing Fight for the Soul of the Country (Amazon, Bookshop). We discuss how one defines "the religious left," how the religious left differs from the religious right, the historical predecessors of the current religious left, and how the media has adapted to covering religion since the 2016 election.

Follow Jack Jenkins on Twitter @JackMJenkins.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain and on Instagram at @brchastain_. 

Support Exvangelical and Powers & Principalities with a paid subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post on Substack - you can also subscribe for free! All content is free through the election.

This episode was produced by Jake Lewis. 

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In this episode, I chat with Anne Helen Petersen about her book Can't Even: How Millennials Became the Burnout Generation (Amazon, Bookshop). We discuss her spiritual & religious background, her viral essay on BuzzFeed that led to this book, how the way we use social media contributes to burnout, how our economic systems fail us, and more. 

You can follow Anne on Twitter @annehelen and subscribe to her newsletter, Culture Study.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain, Instagram @brchastain_, and subscribe to his newsletter The Post-Evangelical Post.

This episode was produced by Jake Lewis. Thank you, Jake!

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My guest this week is Dr. Anthea Butler, associate professor of religion and Africana Studies at the University of Pennsylvania and author of the upcoming book White Evangelical Racism: The Politics of Morality in America. In addition to her upcoming book (to be released in March 2021), we discuss her experience as a public scholar, how the media covers religion & Trump, and many of the trends and headlines of the past four years.

Follow Dr. Butler on Twitter @AntheaButler.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain and Instagram @brchastain_. Support Blake's work via Substack or Patreon.

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My guest this week is Luke Barnett, writer and star of the new film Faith Based, which is available now on demand. Faith Based is a comedy about two friends who want to strike it rich by making a Christian film, and its cast includes Jason Alexander, Margaret Cho, David Koechner, and Lance Reddick (listed alphabetically by last name). 

We talk about Luke's own life story, the lucrative Christian film and music industries, and what it was like to create this feature film. It's a great conversation, and I hope you enjoy it. 

Faith Based is available to rent/buy on Amazon Prime, Vudu, and Fandango. Follow Luke on Twitter @LukeBarnett.

Support this podcast and Blake's other work by a single subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post. You can also subscribe for free! If you prefer to use Patreon to support creators, you can do so here. Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain.

This episode was produced by Jake Lewis.

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On this week's episode, I am joined by Bradley Onishi of the Straight White American Jesus podcast to answer your questions about white evangelicalism and Christian nationalism. You all had some really wonderful questions, and it was equally wonderful to have an opportunity to answer them alongside Brad.

Bradley Onishi is associate professor of religion at Skidmore College. If you enjoy this show, please be sure to check out SWAJ by following the link above. Support them on Patreon and follow Brad on Twitter.

You can support this show by subscribing to The Post-Evangelical Post on Substack. Get 25% off with this link or subscribe to the free tier.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain or Instagram @brchastain_.

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My guest this week is Robert Jones, founder and CEO of PRRI (The Public Religion Research Institute), and author of the recent book White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity (Amazon, Bookshop). In this discussion, we talk about how his book reveals the ways white American Christianity's history of white supremacy pervades all denominations - white evangelicals, mainline Protestants, and white Catholics. We discuss the "restricted moral vision" of white Christians, the findings of the Racism Index, and much more. 

If you'd like to support this show, please do so by telling people about it, leaving a rating or review on Apple Podcasts, and signing up for a paid subscription to my Substack newsletter, The Post-Evangelical Post, save 25% at postevangelicalpost.com/powers. Or sign up for free! 

Follow Robert Jones on Twitter @robertpjones.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain, and on Instagram @brchastain_.

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My guest this week is Sarah Posner, author of the book Unholy: Why White Evangelicals Worship at the Altar of Donald Trump (Bookshop, Amazon). In her book, Sarah details the intellectual and social connections between the New Right, the Religious Right, and alt-right - and the ways in which white evangelicals provide moral and political cover for the Trump administration. Further, her work indicates the ways in which the Trump administration has rewarded white evangelical support by pursuing policies in line with their interests. 

Unholy is an essential text for anyone who hopes to understand that evangelical support for Trump is not an aberration but rather a culmination of decades of work within conservative circles. 

Follow Sarah on Twitter @sarahposner.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain, or on Instagram @brchastain_.

Support the show by signing up for a paid subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post. Save 25% using this link.

This episode was produced by Jake Lewis.

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We're taking a brief break to allow a little more time for production, but we're ready to take your questions. Brad Onishi (of Straight White American Jesus) & I will be taking your questions and answering them on the air in an upcoming episode. Submit your questions by Monday October 5th to be considered. Use the link in the show notes to send a Voice Message in Anchor, or send me a voice memo at [email protected]. If you enjoy the show, please rate & review it on Apple Podcasts, and support the show via Patreon or Substack. We'll be back next week with an interview with Sarah Posner! --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/exvangelical/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/exvangelical/support

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My guest this week is Julie Ingersoll, professor of religious studies at the University of North Florida and author of the book Building God's Kingdom: Inside the World of Christian Reconstruction (Amazon, Bookshop.org). Christian Reconstruction is a movement that can be hard to both explain and identify, but has considerable influence - especially in the realm of Christian education and homeschooling. Julie helps provide context for this movement, and why its social and political goals are anti-democratic and concerning.

Follow Julie on Twitter @julieingersoll.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain, or on Instagram @brchastain_

Support the show by signing up for a paid subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post. Save 25% using this link.

This episode was produced by Jake Lewis.

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My guests this week are Sam Perry & Andrew Whitehead, authors of the book Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States (Amazon, Bookshop.org). Perry & Whitehead are sociologists, and have published their data about America's relationship to Christian nationalism. They help define a framework for Christian nationalism, and why it is valuable to distinguish it from white evangelicalism in this context. They also provide four primary ways Americans react to Christian nationalism: Ambassadors, Accommodators, Resisters, and Rejecters.

You can find their books anywhere books are sold. Use the affiliate links above to help support the show.

Sam Perry is on Twitter @socofthesacred; Andrew Whitehead is on Twitter @ndrewwhitehead.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain, or on Instagram @brchastain_

Support the show by signing up for a paid subscription to The Post-Evangelical Post. Save 25% using this link.

This episode was produced by Jake Lewis.

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My guest this week is Kristin Kobes Du Mez, author of the new book Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation (Bookshop.org, Amazon).  Her book examines the role that cultural ideals of evangelical masculinity have been influenced more by John Wayne than by Jesus of Nazareth. If you've spent time in white evangelical circles, much of this will ring true; if you wonder why evangelicals are drawn to "strong men" like Donald Trump, her work will help explain why.

By tracking the development of "masculinity" through 20th & 21st century popular evangelical culture, Du Mez helps us understand our present moment better.

You can learn more about Kristin Kobes Du Mez's work on her website, and be sure to follow her on Twitter.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain and on Instagram @brchastain_.

Rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts! Support the show by subscribing to The Post-Evangelical Post newsletter. Save 25% on a paid subscription with this link! And read my thoughts on Jesus and John Wayne in The Post-Evangelical Post right here.

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This week's episode features a conversation with Katherine Stewart. Katherine Stewart is the author of The Power Worshippers: Inside the Dangerous Rise of Religious Nationalism (Bookshop.org, Amazon.com).  Her book provides a comprehensive overview of the tactics and strategies Christian nationalists have employed in American politics:  teaching false historical narratives about American history (and the history of the Religious Right itself), deteriorating the public education system, lobbying state legislatures, mobilizing religious voters with sophisticated data modeling, and much more.

This conversation just scratches the surface of what is covered in her book, and is more timely than ever. 

Follow Katherine on Twitter @kathsstewart.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain. Support Blake's work by signing up for a his newsletter, The Post-Evangelical Post. Get 25% off a paid subscription using this link.

You can also listen to this show in its own feed! Just search your podcast app of choice for "Powers & Principalities."

Disclosure: Bookshop & Amazon links above are affiliate links. I may receive a small commission from any purchases - it helps support the show!

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In this very first episode of Powers & Principalities (termed Episode 0, because it acts as a bridge between Exvangelical & this show), I talk with Diana Butler Bass about the early history of fundamentalism in white evangelical Protestant Christianity in America. You can subscribe to the new show feed right here on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and elsewhere. Diana Butler Bass is the author of several books, including Grateful: The Transformative Power of Giving Thanks (Bookshop.org, Amazon*). She also publishes a weekly newsletter, The Cottage, on Substack. Subscribe here. Support Blake's work by telling people about this show, following him on Twitter & Instagram, and by subscribing to The Post-Evangelical Post newsletter. (*Affiliate links. I may earn a commission if you purchase the book from these links--another great way to support the show!) --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/exvangelical/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/exvangelical/support

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Coming soon: Powers & Principalities, a new podcast series from Blake about the systems and institutions that propagate white evangelical & Christian nationalist sociopolitical power. Debuting in late August 2020.

Follow along in the Exvangelical feed, or subscribe to the new show directly on Spotify. (The feed is new, and will appear on other platforms soon.)

Keep updated (and learn more about the methodology and scope of the new series) by subscribing to The Post-Evangelical Post newsletter.

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Austin Channing Brown, author of I'm Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness, joined the show in 2018. This is a re-release of that interview, originally published on June 6, 2018, with a new introduction. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/exvangelical/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/exvangelical/support

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Gretchen Baskerville joins the show! Gretchen Baskerville is a divorce recovery leader and researcher. For more than 20 years, she has worked with Christian women and men going through difficult, life-saving divorces, listening with compassion to those who have suffered from domestic violence, betrayal, infidelity, and emotional abuse. Gretchen's book can be found on Amazon. For those who wish to avoid Amazon, it's also available on Gumroad in epub & pdf formats. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/exvangelical/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/exvangelical/support

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In September, a group of us gathered for the first Exvangelical Community Roundtable. Featuring: Kathryn Brightbill, Chris Stroop, Akiko Bergeron, David Wheeler, and Julie Ingersoll. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/exvangelical/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/exvangelical/support

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This week's episode features a conversation with Dr. Chris Stroop. Chris is an historian and a Provosts's Postdoctoral Scholar in the Humanities and Social Sciences at the University of South Florida, and the co-editor of the upcoming anthology By the Rivers of Babylon. We discuss his experience with K-12 Christian education, how he wrestled with faith in college and beyond, his reporting on the conservative crackdown of students and faculty on Christian college campuses, as well as his recent adoption of the "no religious affiliation" moniker. It's a great conversation.

Discuss this show on twitter with the hashtag #weirdeverywhere.

Follow Chris on Twitter @c_stroop
Read his work at Religion Dispatches: religiondispatches.org/special-repor…cal-paranoia/
Chris also publishes under the name Christopher Stroop.

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Intro, Interlude, and Outro: "Indiana" by Louis Armstrong.

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In this week's episode, I talk to Brandon Whitmore about his journey from Christianity to agnosticism. The conversation covers all sorts of topics, from the historical record of Jesus & science's relationship w/ religion to a qualitative ranking of The Muppets television shows. It's great.

Follow Blake on Twitter @brchastain.
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The hashtag for this episode is #skepticalmuppet.

Intro Music: "The Fleecing" by Pedro the Lion: itunes.apple.com/us/album/the-fle…0959?i=572010962

Outro Music: "Follow the Light" by Travis:
itunes.apple.com/us/album/follow-…700?i=1139316723

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