Good Fire

We’re Back! Good Fire Season 3 is officially coming your way! This is a short teaser episode to let you all now we have finally finished recording.

Charity Battise is a young Indigenous Fire Steward learning their craft. Amy and Charity met at the Indigenous Peoples Burning Network Event and they talked about Charity’s work with her Nation. Charity is a part of the Alabama Coushatta Tribe of Texas and part of the Nature Conservancies Indigenous Peoples Burning Network.

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integrity

Episode highlight

Join Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff as they give a sneak peek at what to expect in Good Fire’s third season.

Resources

Canada’s record-breaking wildfires in 2023: A fiery wake-up call

Intentional Fire Podcast by Vikki Preston

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Quotes

12.20 - 12.35: “We can’t change the weather… and we can’t change the climate at the moment, but there are things that we can do and one of those is changing the fuel that’s available to burn and the vegetation that you can burn… and one of the ways to do that is through good fire.”

Takeaways

Women are the backbone of good fire (01.36)

Amy wants to focus the third season of the Good Fire podcast on matriarchs. After attending an Indigenous Women’s fire training event in the USA, she was inspired to see 30 women come together from different First Nations to deliberate how fire affects their communities. An Elder shared with her that the women in a community direct the men to go out and burn.

Burns, burning and burnout (04.56)

Amy is a Research Scientist with the Canadian Forest Service but has recently been on secondment with Parks Canada as an Indigenous Fire Specialist. This year has seen unprecedented fires across Canada. Canada has depended on help from other countries, and firefighters are feeling burnt out.

15.2 million hectares in Canada burnt this year (08.28)

Amy hopes that practicing good fire will alleviate the strain on firefighting and reduce their risk on the job. She highlighted that years of fire exclusion have led to runaway wildfires.

An opportunity for a reset (13.17)

Amy highlights that even though fires were frequent before this land was colonized, tree rings indicate they were not as intense as they are now. Elder Joe Gilchrist shared with Amy that these wildfires are a good opportunity to reset overgrown forests for cultural burning.

Reducing the requirement of resilience (18.19)

Amy praises how the Chief and Council Little Red River Cree Nation and the community of Fox Lake have responded to the fires by building homes and supporting community members. However, she is saddened by the resilience they have had to show and hopes to see progress in external fire management.

Guest wish list (23.20)

Amy hopes to have Vikki Preston on the podcast, but her community is also impacted by the fire. Her podcast, Intentional Fire invites guests from Vikki’s Nation to talk about how they use good fire.

Indigenous stewardship (24.46)

Amy believes that Indigenous knowledge keepers needn’t seek permission to perform cultural burning on their lands. She pushes for policies and regulations to be re-examined so that land can be cared for in a way that is in line with Indigenous knowledge.

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural empowerment and environmental integrity

The Abundance Will Be Forever with Victor Steffensen and Ado Webster

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Victor Steffensen and Ado Webster reflect on their experiences as Indigenous fire-keepers.

Resources

Fire Country: How Indigenous Fire Management Could Help Save Australia by Victor Steffensen

Victor and Ado’s Bios

Looking After Country with Fire: Aboriginal Burning Knowledge With Uncle Kuu

Great Land by Mulong

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

10.52 - 10.56: “We’re not governed by anyone but ourselves and by our culture and by our country.”

Takeaways

Rediscovering culture, discovering oneself (3.55)

Ado has recently begun working with Firesticks in the capacity of an employee, and loves working in an Aboriginal cultural environment where “the knowledge is safe, the sharing is safe and people are safe”.

For the landscape and the people (9.00)

Ado thrives on the cultural exchange that takes place between Nations as part of his work now, something colonization deprived his community of. He is passionate about helping children access culture freely.

Work that heals (14.40)

Victor notes that working with the country helps liberate Aboriginal peoples from stereotypes that they are not hardworking. Work that heals the land for the future inspires youth to do the right thing to enhance their connection with the land.

“Climate change is mother nature telling us to change” (19.17)

Victor laments that the negative messaging in the media makes us feel helpless against climate change. He brings attention to the disasters humans have lived through, and that this can also be salvaged by “doing the good work”.

When you care for the country, it cares back (28.23)

Ado reassures that cultural burning is safe, which is why many go barefoot for a cultural burn. He feels a sense of oneness with all inhabitants of the land, and disagrees with preferential protective equipment for humans but not for the other animals.

Fire, language and country (33.11)

Ado narrates how Victor demonstrated to Ado’s Nation, his knowledge of the land that applies across different territories. Victor adds that landscapes have many similarities in values, and bringing the country back is the missing piece in reviving cultural knowledge. 

Let us do it our way (38.48)

Ado speaks about the National Indigenous Fire Workshop they conducted for nations across Australia, where they did a cultural burn which lasted 13 days. Not having burned due to colonization has changed the landscape, and is causing sickness in the forests. 

The whole world gets affected (47.33)

Ado says that knowledge opens up minds with the truth but it makes it more difficult to tolerate the wrong things being done. Everyone was impacted by the large bushfires in Australia, and he feels strongly about people experiencing the benefits of cultural burning.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast: [email protected] and [email protected].

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Victor Steffenson and Ado Webster talk about cultural burning in Australia and the work Firesticks is doing to promote it.

Resources

Fire Country: How Indigenous Fire Management Could Help Save Australia by Victor Steffensen

Looking After Country with Fire: Aboriginal Burning Knowledge With Uncle Kuu

by Victor and Sandra Steffensen

Cool Burning

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

● California Indian Water Commission

● Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

17.02 - 17.09: “Fear is… one of the biggest problems… in the world today and… a lot of that comes from ignorance.”

Takeaways

Ado and Victor (6.10)

Adrian, known as Ado, was born in Naora (Nowra) and considers himself fortunate to have grown up in his community and culture. Victor, a descendant of the Tagalaka clan from North Queensland, is the Lead Fire Practitioner at Firesticks, a filmmaker, musician and author.

Baby steps to progress (9.14)

Victor wrote a children’s book as a way of getting back to the arts using storytelling to reactivate culture and landscape connections and change society while having fun.

Listen to the country (16.58)

Victor finds it alarming that people fear fire, but takes solace in Indigenous knowledge, which focuses on the right way of doing things and provides a positive solution. Ado’s father realized that forests were deteriorating because Indigenous peoples had not been allowed to manage them.

“Learning not through science, but through spirit” (24.10)

Ado has learnt from his Elders about nature and realizes that this knowledge is only recently being discovered by non-Indigenous people.

“Fire is good for us as people” (33.40)

Victor notes that the insights of the Indigenous cultures are shifting the culture of the country as a whole, evolving into a nature-based one, where people can move from fear of fire to a connection to the land.

Fire and sustainability (39.50)

Victor and his team are working on creating a training model leading to a certified diploma to factor in lived experience for those who can demonstrate and manage the work practically.

“We need to work together” (50.24)

Victor believes that the work they have been doing in education to further cultural, environmental and economic development has been supported by Mother Nature. It has also made the country take notice of the work the Aboriginal peoples are doing, and recognize the need to support this work.

“It’s all about doing the right thing” (54.43)

Victor recommends being inclusive, making people comfortable and respecting them and their place to work together towards sustainability. He urges people to take action towards nature, and not be limited by barriers of time or money.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment, and environmental integrity

Good Fire In Guyana with Kayla de Freitas and Nicholas Cyril

Episode highlight

In this episode, Kayla and Nicholas talk about the cultural burning practices in Guyana.

Resources

SRDC

Kayla De-Freitas

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

41.54 - 42.04: “So much of that knowledge about fire and fire use and farming, hunting, is learned by doing and by living there and living that life.”

Takeaways

Fire since time immemorial (04.02)

Nicholas has worked for 10 years at SRDC as a part-time researcher. He explains that fire in his territory has always been used and continues to be used for various reasons.

The changing face of fire (10.55)

Kayla’s research focus is the changing practices of Indigenous fire management and local fire governance.

Timeless wisdom, current realities (13.17)

Kayla describes who was interviewed for her research study and the regional fire management plan.

Indigenous land rights (17.17)

Nicholas notes that Indigenous peoples are allowed to burn in the villages. Kayla adds that Indigenous communities can make their own rules concerning resource governance.

Towards the creation of a fire policy (19.35)

The Indigenous communities in South Rupununi are working to create a local fire policy appropriate to their landscape.

Burning season (23.46)

Kayla highlights the seasonal fire calendar that the district council uses and a collection of interview responses on putting fire on the landscape.

Beyond fire (25.53)

Kayla shares how enriching it has been to work with Indigenous communities alongside Nicholas, learning about the landscape, experiencing hospitality and developing connections.

Bringing fire back (33.46)

Nicholas mentions how management of fire is changing in the communities to a direct style where the council makes decisions for the community.

Valuing Indigenous knowledge (35.52)

Nicholas speaks about how people are moving away from the traditional way of life. Kayla comments on how Indigenous knowledge was erased by settlers, but is being reclaimed.

Following in the ancestor’s footsteps (41.40)

Nicholas delineates the process of a burn, when traditional knowledge is relied upon. Kayla laments that the government only pays lip service to Indigenous knowledge and practices. 

The sum of the parts (49.44)

Kayla narrates how fire management plans are being updated in consultation with Indigenous groups, and how opt-in arrangements work for their lands.

Looking ahead (54.25)

Nicholas says the Indigenous communities are mindful of burning in the right seasons and work with nature’s cycles. He describes how burning assists animals in breeding.

Preventing brain drain (1.04.57)

Kayla mentions that the SRDC is creating opportunities for trained Guyanese people to stay in the country and serve the community. Nicholas’ work with SRDC is inspired by the desire to keep Indigenous knowledge alive and affirm Indigenous land rights.

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment, and environmental integrity

Early Career Panel

Episode highlight

This episode is a recording of a session at the IAWF Fire & Climate conference in Pasadena CA, featuring early career researchers who are re-kindling cultural burning.

Resources

International Association of Wildland Fire

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

16.25 - 16.29: “Indigenous people don’t need us to speak on their behalf, they can speak on their own behalf.”

Takeaways

“In a good way” (05.02)

Melinda Adams, San Carlos Apache Tribal member, and PhD candidate at UC Davis, shares how agency representatives took a step away from fire suppression in one of the first CalFire cultural fire workshops at Cache Creek Conservancy in Woodland, CA.

The benefits of cultural fire (06.42)

Melinda narrates how the burn was concentrated on restoring tule, an ecologically and culturally significant plant. This highlights how cultural fire is important for long-term carbon storage, water holding potential and cultural reunification.

Collaboration, consultation and consent (07.57)

Melinda hopes for  burning to take place with Indigenous peoples, to undo the impacts of colonialism and unburden future generations from climate change.

Good relations (11.11)

Carly Dominguez is of Indigenous Mexican heritage. Her work with cultural fire is inspired by her desire to improve water health.

Fire has always been good (13.30)

Carly is being trained through the Indigenous cultural burn network.

“Fire has a special place in my heart” (17.41)

Deniss Martinez is a Ph.D. candidate at UC Davis. Learning from local Indigenous communities helped her reconnect with her Indigenous roots and relearn fire.

Getting stuff done (19.54)

William Madrigal Jr., or Will, is associated with Climate Science Alliance, a nonprofit based in San Diego that supports and collaborates with Indigenous tribes in addressing climate change disparities.

Facing climate change (22.19)

Nina Fontana is a postdoctoral researcher at the University of California, Davis in collaboration with the USGS Southwest Climate Adaptation Science Center.

Relationships over acres (26.10)

Deniss observes that when relationships are built and in place, more equitable decision-making takes place during a crisis.

Trust takes time (30.57)

Carly suggests approaching practices and policies with openness and Nina advises including the community in all aspects of the project from the beginning.

Researching back to life (35.59)

Melinda notes that Indigenous peoples conducting research helps move their initiatives and collaborations forward. She is excited about young people getting involved in burning and the openness of other researchers to this learning.

“We have to have hope” (40.16)

As a native person whose ancestors survived so much, Melinda believes it is her duty to lead with hope.

“Connection brings me hope” (43.22)

Understanding the traditional way humans can fulfil our responsibilities to the following seven generations gives Will hope for a better future. Nina finds hope in hearing about species coming back to landscapes.

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural empowerment and environmental integrity

Update: Cultural Fire in California with Don Hankins

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Don Hankins talks about new developments around cultural burning in California and his hopes for the future.

Resources

California’s Strategic Plan for Expanding the Use of Beneficial Fire

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

24.52 - 24.53: “We definitely have to connect culture to fire.”

Takeaways

Cultural torch bearers (01.52)

Don is Plains Miwok from the central valley of California’s Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta. He believes that due to the wildfires in California, initiatives are taking place that recognize the place of Indigenous fire.

Revitalizing cultural fire (4.37)

Various policy barriers - access to land and funding and permission to burn using traditional laws - are being addressed through the creation of a tribally chartered non-profit organization to support learning, advance policy efforts and act as a refunding and redistribution entity.

Building and empowering the youth (07.16)

Don looks to the youth to carry Indigenous knowledge of fire into the future and seeks young people from his Nation to mentor. Knowledge holders training the youth to understand the cultural reasons for burning, read the landscape and maintain culture will enable the youth to step into decision-making roles and policy arenas.

Enabling cultural burning (11.49)

Don speaks about California Bill SB 332 which allows certified burn bosses and cultural burners to burn, and that if they meet certain conditions, they shall not be liable for any fire suppression or other costs otherwise recoverable for a burn.

Spreading like good fire (16.05)

Don also speaks about California Bill AB 642 which primarily codifies the definitions of cultural fire and incentivizes agencies to work with cultural burners to implement plans and enable Indigenous stewardship.

Cultural fire progress (20.21)

Don lists some challenges to advancing cultural fire - the criteria for declaring someone trained and the sensitivities around tribal sovereignty for that declaration. If someone is not exposed to cultural fire training, errors in the process could occur.

Learning from fire (23.42)

Don shares that if you are gentle with fire and approach it in a good way, you can learn from it, or you can learn the lessons the hard way. Thinking about the reasons for burning helps look for learning opportunities in burning. Don’s approach to burning changes according to the requirement, but praying and acknowledging the land is always a part of it.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected]m.

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment, and environmental integrity

Episode highlight

In this episode, Ntando Nondo talks about Indigenous land stewardship and fire management practices in Zimbabwe.

Resources

Ntando Nondo’s Profile

Southern Africa Fire Network (SAFNET)

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

42.08 - 42.16: “If there is a fire, you better use the little water you have to save your property.”

Takeaways

Fire management strategies (05.49)

Ntando shares that the fire management plan involves protecting the ecological regions depending on the amount of rainfall received, the wildlife living in the region and the kind of farming done there. 

The many uses and sources of fire (12.45)

For Indigenous peoples, fire is the primary source of energy and a cultural entity. Wildland fires can be started by a locomotive, electrical faults, or lightning.

Good fire (19.30)

Ntando explains that previously, communities were in charge of fire management on their own lands but fire now has regulations associated with it. They do their burning in designated areas ahead of the fire season, to reduce the fuel available to burn and reduce fire intensity.

Indigenous partnership with the government (25.58)

The 15+ Indigenous groups in Zimbabwe manage their lands on a day-to-day basis in consultation with the government.

Coming together to avert disasters (33.39)

Zimbabwe is a member of the Southern Africa Fire Network (SAFNET), a voluntary organization that shares strategies on fire management and developments across borders using remote sensing to alert neighbouring countries.

Beating the fires (39.26)

Ntando describes a fire beater as a wooden stick of 1.5m to 2m with a 40 X 60 cm piece of rubber on one end used to beat the fire grounds to remove oxygen from the fire. They also use sprayers, sprinklers and other tools to disperse chemicals and water.

Prepare for the worst, expect the best (43.29)

Ntando recalls the 2010 fire in the Midlands province lasted for 3 days, killing 7 elephants and several donkeys and domesticated animals. Fire breaks allow for effective demarcation of lands and timely fire management before the entire community is affected.

Fire then and now (47.01)

Ntando observes that fire used for indoor purposes like cooking or cultural ceremonies continues, but fire outside the home or in agriculture is restricted, especially during Zimbabwe’s fire season from 31st July to 31st October. He envisions consulting with Indigenous communities on fire management so that the fire can continue to play a central role in their culture.

The future of fire (55.06)

Satellite technology and remote sensing can be helpful in presenting a graphical summary of the success of fire management plans and inform further refinements to the plan.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural empowerment and environmental integrity

Cultural Safety with Joe Gilchrist and Natasha Caverley

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Joe Gilchrist and Natasha Caverley talk about how Indigenous and Western ways of knowing can come together to bring cultural burning back on the land a study exploring cultural safety of Indigenous wildland firefighters in Canada.

Resources

Joe Gilchrist describes how fire has changed the landscape

Natasha Caverley of Turtle Island Consulting

Giving Voice to Cultural Safety of Indigenous Wildland Firefighters in Canada

Revitalizing Cultural Burning

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Takeaways

Sparking passion (04.16)

Joe began firefighting at age 15 and became a squad boss in 1991 in Merritt. He narrates the travels and training they did, and how his experience firefighting and cultural burning for plant health helped him.

Glowing embers (11.55)

Natasha is the President of Turtle Island Consulting and was part of a specialized team funded by the BC Ministry of Forests to work with First Nations that were dealing with the mountain pine beetle infestation.

Two-eyed seeing approach (18.28)

Joe outlines the wages and structure of the crews involved in firefighting, as well as the demanding schedules of firefighters. Natasha’s work has been to formally capture such anecdotes from a national perspective.

Cultural safety (31.37)

Joe wants to share his experience and lessons learned as a firefighter but has always been a doer more than a talker. Natasha realized that Indigenous peoples do not feel safe accessing quality services in wildland firefighting as well.

Systemic racism (41.06)

Joe looks back at the systemic racism he faced as a firefighter and recounts instances when the Indigenous firefighters were tested through difficult tasks and their firefighting style was mocked.

The best way to work is to have fun (50.20)

Joe was diagnosed with PTSD in 1994 from the exhaustion of always having to be available or on standby as a firefighter. He informs that PTSD can affect anyone, can be hard to fight on one’s own, and warrants professional help, as difficult as it is to ask for.

Wildland firefighting as a career choice (01.05.05)

Joe believes knowledge of the land, its inhabitants, the wind patterns on the land, and the way fire burns through it are important requirements to be a firefighter. He is working with some universities to add an Indigenous perspective to the learning.

Cultural burning needs to come back (1.14.30)

Natasha is working with Amy in Saskatchewan to curate promising practices to bring fire back on the land by interviewing Elders and fire-keepers. Joe is inspired to continue making connections with knowledge keepers and Elders and share his knowledge in firefighting with others.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

Episode highlight

In this episode, Russell Myers Ross and William Nikolakis speak about the work of the Gathering Voices Society on revitalizing traditional fire management in Tsilhqot’in Territory and the potential around carbon offsets.

Resources

Russell Myers Ross’ Story

William Nikolakis’ Profile

Gathering Voices Society

The North Australian Indigenous Land and Sea Management Alliance Ltd (NAILSMA)

Intact Foundation

Wildfire governance in a changing world: Insights for policy learning and policy transfer

Goal setting and Indigenous fire management: a holistic perspective

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Takeaways

Valuing Indigenous knowledge and experience (7.59)

Will created the Gathering Voices Society to support “a stewardship model, where First Nations manage the land in ways that are consistent with their values for their own goals and their own ways”.

Practical action (10.54)

Will shares that their goal is to support the community by employing people for the fire programs, and they are guided by their motto to learn by doing. Cultural burning can involve everyone in the community, not just firefighters, to begin seeing fire as a friend.

Learning by doing (14.58)

Will met Russ at a governance conference in 2015. They hosted Victor Steffensen in 2018 for knowledge exchange on different ways of practising cultural burning which led to them doing their first spring burn in 2019.

Balancing benefits, mitigating effects (25.07)

Even though many people hold misconceptions about cultural burning, Russ knows that the benefits will be visible in due time, and healthy land can be enjoyed by all. The community has been excited about reconnecting to the land and the energy is infectious.

2017 wildfires (33.52)

The Gathering Voices Society has secured funding to finance the fire stewardship in Russ’ community. Russ speaks about the aftermath of the 2017 wildfires and the hope for development and education in this space ever since.

Changing the world, one fire at a time (42.37)

Will and Russ discuss the different tools used in cultural burning. Other communities are looking to him for inspiration on land management today. Will is working towards compiling scientific evidence of the validity and importance of this practice.

Carbon (48.56)

Will talks about working with NAILSMA, where they witnessed the growth of well-documented formal Indigenous fire programs that are groundbreaking in understanding the effect of fire across the landscape.

Passing on the torch (54.46)

Russ states that piloting the program in the community was important to measure practicality and interest, and they are now planning on how it can be expanded. He envisions this work to be intergenerational, keeping the community immersed in the knowledge.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural empowerment and environmental integrity

Episode highlight

In this episode, Ron W. Goode talks about his journey stewarding the land using fire and the importance of ceremony. 

Resources

Ron Goode’s Profile

Tribal-Traditional Ecological Knowledge

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

46.26 - 46.29: “Your voice is not carrying but you keep singing”.

Takeaways

Living on the land (4.37)

Ron is the Tribal Chairman of the North Fork Mono Tribe. He describes how his grandparents were born before the land was colonized, and his grandmother lived just off the land beyond the age of 100.

Understanding nature (7.24)

Ron points out that there are 10,000 meadows in the Sierra Nevada mountain ranges in California, where wild animals and humans coexist. They also have natural medicines they prepare and trade.

Tending the garden (16.12)

Ron laments that mega-fires have increased the canopy of the forest so much that rain does not reach the roots of trees, and what does hit the floor, runs off. Thinning the forest thus plays an important part in keeping the forest healthy. 

The right way to do a cultural burn (23.34)

Ron is mindful to burn using the right techniques, in the right area and during the right season. A cultural burn will not burn the root system, but a wildfire does.

Cultural resources are the brush (31.37)

When Ron does a burn, he has a vision of what the landscape will look like a few years from now, and what harvest will be ready. 

“We don’t do anything that is not spiritual first” (40.23)

Working on the landscape means making an offering to Mother Earth and all its inhabitants. Ron shares that when an offering is made from the spirit, all of nature responds well to it. 

Fire is ceremonial (49.43)

Ron explains that cultural fire is called ceremonial fire because it begins with a prayer or song. They have been successfully burning on the land with no real accidents.

Consultation is the way forward (56.21)

The California government has been charged with creating a strategic plan for natural resources and is hiring a tribal liaison for each tribe. However, consultation becomes complicated with the hiring of non-tribal liaisons who do not have a connection to the tribe.

“I’m burning for the sustainability of our culture” (1.00.39)

Ron burns with the intention to sustain his culture first and then to contain wildfires and improve biodiversity.

Take care of your backyard (1.10.20)

Ron shares his experiences with Aboriginal leaders in Australia, exchanging knowledge and cultural guidance.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

Hosted by Amy Cardinal Christianson, and Matthew Kristoff. Amy is a Métis woman from Treaty 8 territory, currently living in Treaty 6, and a research scientist with the Canadian Forest Service, Natural Resources Canada. Matthew grew up in Treaty 8 territory and now lives in Treaty 6. He is a forester in the province of Alberta, Canada and the creator of YourForest Podcast.

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Bhiamie Williamson discusses the connection of Indigenous peoples to the land, and how cultural burning is a way to preserve the environment and cultural heritage.

Resources

Strength from perpetual grief: how Aboriginal people experience the bushfire crisis

Royal Commission into National Natural Disaster Arrangements

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

● California Indian Water Commission

● Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

12.00 - 12.10: “There is so much trauma in our communities, people have never had the opportunity, I feel, to kind of pick themselves up and dust themselves off from colonization.”

Takeaways

Fire is a shared resource (5.58)

As an Aboriginal child growing up in Australia surrounded by his culture, Bhiamie “always had a love for country”. He studied environmental and political sciences at university, and discovered the benefits of cultural burning.

Land is at the center of healing (11.26)

Bhiamie points out that fire plays an important role in Indigenous healing practices. Cultural burning can also prevent wildfires, thus preventing the trauma of losing ancestral lands.

Sharing the load (19.04)

Bhiamie has written an article that has inspired governments and agencies to provide trauma-informed support to Aboriginal peoples after natural disasters.

The land is a living museum (24.42)

Bhiamie informs that Aboriginal peoples have connections to land, and the animals, trees, stones, and petroglyphs are all part of the cultural heritage.

“The best form of protecting is prevention” (30.22)

Bhiamie recommends engaging Indigenous peoples in emergency management and prevention conversations which can help in high-pressure conditions.

“Think ahead and be happy to be unsettled” (38.37)

Bhiamie comments on the impacts of colonization and “centuries of oppression”, and the need to overturn it.

True reconciliation (46.59)

Bhiamie expresses his preference to have Indigenous peoples design their own emergency management programs across different lands in Australia.

Children of the future (59.19)

A majority of the Aboriginal population is young, which brings up the need to provide educational and developmental support along with family and social support.

“It’s just not good enough to ignore us anymore” (1.02.37)

Bhiamie observes that even when Indigenous peoples are invited to share their opinion, they are marginalized, with tokenized opportunities that contain the impact they can have.

Indigenizing masculinity (1.08.41)

Bhiamie’s Ph.D. research is on Indigenous men and masculinity, exploring masculinity from an Indigenous perspective.

“You can call that decolonization, I just call that common sense” (1.14.13)

In Bhiamie’s opinion, the first step to decolonization is to employ Indigenous peoples in senior roles. Land justice and repossession by Indigenous peoples, as well as cultural burning to manage climate change, are the next steps.

You can get in touch with the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

Another teaser, and some advice from Amy for those that want to get involved!

Resources

Canada Wildfire: https://www.canadawildfire.org/

Firesticks Alliance Australia: https://www.firesticks.org.au/

Coalition of Prescribed Fire Councils: http://www.prescribedfire.net/

Prescribed Fire Training Exchanges: https://www.conservationgateway.org/ConservationPractices/FireLandscapes/HabitatProtectionandRestoration/Training/TrainingExchanges/Pages/Upcoming-Training-Exchanges.aspx

TREX Prescribed Fire Training Exchange Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/TREXprescribedfiretrainingexchange/

The right to burn: barriers and opportunities for Indigenous-led fire stewardship in Canada: https://www.facetsjournal.com/doi/10.1139/facets-2021-0062

Current Barriers to the Expansion of Cultural Burning and Prescribed Fire in California and Recommended Solutions: https://karuktribeclimatechangeprojects.com/good-fire/

https://www.canadawildfire.org/

https://www.firesmartcanada.ca/product/blazing-the-trail-celebrating-indigenous-fire-stewardship/#:~:text=Blazing%20the%20Trail%3A%20Celebrating%20Indigenous%20Fire%20Stewardship%20is%20designed%20for,and%20senior%20community%20managers%2Fadministrators.

The final episode of the Good Fire Podcast is an incredible conversation that helps to try and summarize some of the ideas we have discussed over the last 10 episodes. Jay Mistry has been working with and doing research in South America with Indigenous peoples for years, and she has a great perspective on many of the issues we have discussed. We talked about the role of cultural fire in Brazil and Venezuela, indigenous lead fire programs, and the challenges with colonial governments and how we can start to shift the conversation. Thank you for listening, we hope to bring you more episodes in the future.

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Jay Mistry talks about cultural fire in Brazil and Venezuela, Indigenous-led fire programs, and the challenges with colonial governments.

Resources

Jay Mistry: https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/portal/en/persons/jay-mistry(21cb3408-1419-4ec2-9b70-bcf46c0bfac4).html

From fire suppression to fire management: advances and resistances to changes in fire policy in the savannas of Brazil and Venezuela: https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/portal/files/28888954/Geographical_Journal_2017_Author_Final_Version.pdf

Sharing Multiple Perspectives on Burning: Towards a Participatory and Intercultural Fire Management Policy in Venezuela, Brazil, and Guyana: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/334264499_Sharing_Multiple_Perspectives_on_Burning_Towards_a_Participatory_and_Intercultural_Fire_Management_Policy_in_Venezuela_Brazil_and_Guyana

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

“16.26 - 16.38: “There was a lot of evidence being gathered around the world about how Indigenous practices, not just fire management, but other types of Indigenous practices, are actually sustaining biodiversity and reducing greenhouse gases.”

30.58 - 31.07: “Fire is not just a tool but it’s actually part of people’s culture as well and it’s actually quite linked into every… bit of their culture.”

Takeaways

Fire used differently in different ecosystems (01.27)

Jay is a professor of environmental geography in the Department of Geography at the Royal Holloway University of London, UK. She shares her parental lineage and her academic and professional journey which brought her to Brazil. Though she had set out to study the effects of fire on vegetation, her research led her to engage with the Indigenous peoples who conducted cultural burning, and their practices in the savannas.

Changing the fire paradigm (8.48)

Jay recalls that due to the strong focus on firefighting and fire prevention, Indigenous burning in Brazil was not well-received in the 90s, and in some cases, it still isn’t. She points out that government agencies are “realizing they can’t fight fires anymore”, and are warming up to the idea of active fire management. She claims that the agribusiness lobby is villainizing Indigenous burning as degrading the land. Wildfires seldom reach urban centres in Brazil but are feared.

Making the case for Indigenous fire management (14.10)

Jay has been researching the savannas on the border of Brazil and Venezuela with Bibiana Bilbao of Simón Bolívar University in Venezuela. Bibiana has conducted experiments to show how Indigenous fire management practices reduce fuel loads. They have put together a literature review of Indigenous practices of Brazil, Venezuela and Guyana and have organized discussion groups and trust workshops for Indigenous peoples, government and academics.

Creating a safe space (20.33)

Jay highlights that the key to success in their workshops was that the Indigenous peoples trust them due to their long-term relationship. They also received feedback that it helped the Indigenous groups to have facilitators they knew. She shares how her workshops have also done well due to their long duration, having champions for Indigenous fire management in the firefighting groups and knowledge exchange between firefighters and Indigenous peoples.

The importance of Indigenous fire management in preventing climate change (26.23)

Jay speaks about a workshop held in Venezuela which brought Indigenous leaders to look at how Indigenous fire management could inform climate change mitigation policies. Cultural burning prevents large, catastrophic, high-intensity fires that emit greenhouse gases, thereby reducing the carbon footprint. Climate change has caused longer droughts, which affects how burning is done. Cultural burning is part of Indigenous culture and is done year-round.

Learning from Indigenous knowledge (35.07)

Jay cites a UN report that states that we must learn from Indigenous peoples’ sustainable practices, which can prevent the mass extinction of biodiversity. However, she warns against the colonization of Indigenous knowledge, and for knowledge sharing to be done by the Indigenous, and to their benefit. She laments that government agencies resist handing over power to any other entity.

Community and solutions (40.24)

Jay suggests adopting a positive and inquisitive approach in learning from local people how they practise conservation and natural resource management instead of approaching them looking to find gaps in their practices. She explains the different land ownership and management agreements in the different countries of South America, and how they compare to those in Africa.

Paving the way forward with reconciliation (45.25)

Jay and her colleagues have received a grant to create an international Centre for Wildfires, Environment and Society to research global wildfires. Her role will involve integrating Indigenous and local community fire management practices with scientific data to inform climate modules. She believes now is a good time to “show how important Indigenous fire management and fire knowledge is”.

Our land, our rights (49.48)

Jay notes that since Indigenous knowledge is tied to the land, land tenure and land rights become important considerations. Ensuring Indigenous peoples have rights to their land will lead to the application of their practices and management there, which will maintain biodiversity and reduce greenhouse gases. She reveals that governments have been trying to repeal some rights in order to access the resources on Indigenous lands.

Collective connectedness (54.46)

Jay has observed that Indigenous peoples “see themselves completely connected” with the physical and spiritual ecosystems within nature. This connection is as a collective, considering their ancestors and future generations. She believes that western society has lost these values, and fails to see how our actions in the present can affect someone else down the line. By sharing positive Indigenous stories and knowledge, we can all learn these values.

You can get in touch with the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

I think when most people imagine a firefighter they picture a man. Women, it would seem, are still trying to shake the stigma of historical gender roles. Across the colonized world these gender roles have created a mold through which we all perceive and think about our world. Vanessa is trying to break that mold. Through her own life experiences climbing the ladder of the western fire model, as well as through her research, Vanessa has great perspective and insight into the importance of women in cultural fire.

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Vanessa Cavanagh shares her journey as an Aboriginal woman in cultural burning and firefighting.

Resources

Vanessa Cavanagh: https://scholars.uow.edu.au/display/vanessa_cavanagh

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

36.09 - 36.25: “I am in an identified role. I've got the capacity now to compete on merit with non-Indigenous people in these other roles, so I want to go for those jobs and open up the door behind me for the next Aboriginal person to come into that identified role that I'll be leaving.”

1.01.23 - 1.01.32: “We never know all the answers, it’s always just an ongoing experience and … that’s the work and the process where we're trying to change as we go along.”

Takeaways

Reconciliation (1.45)

Vanessa is an Aboriginal woman completing her Ph.D. at the School of Geography and Sustainable Communities, University of Wollongong, and is grateful to the communities whose land she works on. She is passionate about maintaining her mother tongue from the Bundjalung country in New South Wales. She discusses how land acknowledgements and other protocols and processes are being reinstated as a way to respect ancestors and maintain cultural identity.

On the shoulders of other women (5.55)

Vanessa believes that in traditional times, there would have been no separation in the role of men and women in caring for the land since there was “no distinction between humans on the landscape and the landscape itself”. This would have included cultural burning, harvesting and passing on knowledge for future generations. She shares her career journey, and how fire forms a part of the belief systems that were founded on a relationship with the land.

The role of women in cultural burning (13.47)

Vanessa acknowledges that gender roles do come into effect at work, and encourages more space for Aboriginal women in her cultural burning research. She recalls how she was inspired to create a women’s sharing circle after attending the National Indigenous Fire Forum, which included women from all backgrounds. Speaking to women this way and in workshops is showing her that Aboriginal women have always played an important role in cultural burning.

The social dynamics of gender (22.07)

In Vanessa’s experience, “Indigenous men working in cultural burning have always promoted the position of Aboriginal women’s roles in cultural burning”. She has felt encouraged in her work as a field officer but also wants to maintain the cultural protocols that dictate the areas that are inappropriate for women to be involved in.

Cultural change (28.45)

Vanessa points out how people are more open to learning from Aboriginal knowledge and land management practices today. Agencies have new Aboriginal positions to help facilitate engagement with Aboriginal communities. She acknowledges the power imbalance due to colonization with settlers deciding societal structures. She views her role as “infiltrating and learning it and unpacking it and dismantling it and then rebuilding it in a way that is more inclusive of Indigenous world views”.

Change is uncomfortable (31.57)

Vanessa states that since social structures promote the privilege of one group, that group becomes resistant to change. It takes energy and political effort to change the dominant narrative. She recounts how the Aboriginal Social Justice movement in Australia in the 80s and 90s has brought about a minimum benchmark of 3% reservation of Aboriginal Employees in government agencies to increase cultural diversity at the workplace.

Celebration of learned individual success (38.59)

Vanessa considers maintaining her connection with the community as one of the reasons people find her inspiring. She narrates how the youth today are establishing their resistance to social injustice by refusing participation in areas that are not inclusive of Aboriginal Peoples. When teaching primary school teachers about Indigenous geography, she helps them identify and dismantle their ignorance and biases, empowering them to change the narrative for kids.

Lifelong learning and teaching (46.01)

In her workshops, Vanessa finds that people are excited and eager to learn about Aboriginal fire when given the opportunity to engage with it. She recognizes that she is privileged to be in the position to teach and share knowledge to non-Indigenous people and contradict their biases, as she may be the first of the 3.3% Aboriginal people in Australia they would have met. However, she shies away from the term expert and thinks of herself as a lifelong learner.

Three-pronged approach (52.04)

Vanessa outlines the 3 questions she is seeking to address in her Ph.D. within an Indigenous methodological approach: 1) How do Aboriginal women engage in cultural burning in New South Wales? 2) How do Aboriginal women want their knowledge and narratives of cultural burning to be presented and shared? 3) Are there barriers or challenges to the full participation of Aboriginal women in cultural burning that can be addressed through policy implementation or development? If yes, how can those be developed to help assist more participation?

Knowledge sharing opportunity (55.17)

Vanessa has developed a huge network through her work in the national parks’ annual meetings of Aboriginal staffers and had women approaching her about burning when she shared her Ph.D. topic. She has been balancing organic observations, interactions and processes with her research methodology to allow for Aboriginal participants to have a say in her process too, to ensure the narrative is a correct interpretation of the stories that inform her research.

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected]m.

Wildfire management has long been the domain of colonial governments. Despite a rich history of living with, managing, and using fire as a tool since time immemorial, Indigenous people were not permitted to practice cultural fire and their knowledge was largely ignored. As a result, total fire suppression became the prominent policy. With the most active force of natural succession abruptly halted, Indigenous communities suffered as the land changed. Today, western society has recognized the ecological problem a lack of fire has created, however, the cultural impact has been largely ignored. Frank Lake has spent a great deal of time contemplating the role of Indigenous people in fire management, and he has some great insight into how we can begin to change fire management for the benefit of all people.

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Frank Lake talks about how fire management should be done in consultation with Indigenous peoples and how it can benefit the land and the community.

Resources

Frank Lake: https://www.fs.fed.us/psw/programs/ff/staff/flake/

Maintaining the Mosaic: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/545a90ede4b026480c02c5c7/t/55256829e4b0788926c03f36/1428514857584/KimmererLake.pdf

Returning Fire to the Land: https://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/lake/psw_2017_lake001.pdf

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

12.44 - 12.59: “[There is] the myth of the pristine wilderness and that this ecological diversity was just inherently there when really a lot of our forests and our fire-prone ecosystems, where there are Indigenous peoples, are the legacy of that complex Indigenous fire stewardship.”

Takeaways

Frank finding fire (1.19)

Frank has been a research ecologist with the USDA Forest Service for 18 years now. His mixed Native American and white background influences and informs his work with Indigenous and Tribal Peoples in California. Prior to this, he worked in fisheries habitats and credits Dr. Robin Kimmerer and the paper they wrote together with his understanding of and interest in fire and its ecological aspects. His work has since involved researching and raising awareness of fire.

Fire-dependent culture (7.22)

Frank has maintained his wildland firefighter qualifications and has been an important liaison between stakeholders in fire management. He combines his cultural knowledge with his academic training to bring a more effective understanding and awareness of benefits, issues and policies and identify the culturally significant resources at risk. He speaks of how subsistence activities, food, basketry and ceremonies are linked with fire.

Indigenous fire sovereignty (12.42)

Frank points out how intentional burning has facilitated and maintained the biodiversity of landscapes. He contemplates how Indigenous peoples can have an equal voice to share Indigenous knowledge as a remedy to the vulnerabilities or stressors of environmental processes and work as partners with the government. He claims the “alignment of intersection between people and place” will occur when fire is acknowledged as medicine for the land.

Consultation in cultural burning (17.53)

Frank highlights the need for cross-sectional work and the emphasis on cultural resources. Fire, as a cultural practice transcends land ownership boundaries, and work must be done in varying degrees to reinstate cultural fire practices to ensure that wildfire is not threatening life and property in the community. Fire management agreements can mandate the consultation and coordination of Indigenous and Tribal peoples in firefighting and controlled burning.

Stakeholder management (21.07)

Frank underscores the importance of Indigenous and Tribal peoples having a direct relationship with the government to provide consultation in partnership, respecting the value of the traditional knowledge being shared. He acknowledges that different stakeholders have different socioeconomic and ethnic interests and it is important to learn how to live with fire and manage resources together.

Fire is medicine (25.29)

Frank deliberates the interpretations of smoke, and how smoke positively impacts water temperatures and therefore culturally important aquatic species. His research has shown how cultural burning reduces evaporation, increases spring flow and rejuvenates materials for habitats. He discusses the intersection of technology and Indigenous knowledge in his work.

Corrective or maintenance fire (32.50)

Frank explains that in the ecosystems where fire has been suppressed, the buildup of fuels along with changing climatic conditions has caused larger and more intense fires. He speaks about corrective fires in Canada and Australia addressing the absence of cultural burning using maps to show the difference Indigenous fire stewardship can make on different landscapes, including promoting fire-adapted drought-tolerant species.

Fire-adapted communities (40.49)

“Having Indigenous people share the importance of fire increases our public’s awareness”, Frank says. This will also help change people’s perspective of burning and fire from an illegal, negative consequence to an essential resource to our economies, livelihoods, culture, community and ecosystem services. He shares that there is a spectrum of people ranging from those who think fire is essential, to those who are concerned with the health effects of smoke.

Consultation, communication, and coordination (48.30)

Frank has been associated with the National Advanced Fire & Resource Institute in Tucson, through which he has been able to impact a wide range of stakeholders, and his local work helps share that knowledge. He discusses the Tribes he works with and the Tribal governments through National Forest Agreements, who appoint a representative to work with the management team in a wildfire.

The agroforestry perspective (55.03)

Frank outlines how active fire management agreements facilitate joint prescribed burns between agencies, organizations and Tribes using the example of oak in California. A legacy of Indigenous fire stewardship protects values around food security, forest functionality, resilience and diversity, along with meeting the needs of the community, including recreation and self-sufficiency of resources.  

Curating knowledge (59.03)

Frank believes that he has a responsibility to honour the knowledge that his Elders have gifted him with time and care, which includes thought around bringing fire back onto the landscape. He uses forest thinning on his own property as an example and inspiration to other families to promote cultural burning. He speaks about other avenues to share the wealth of Indigenous knowledge from the Elders to the youth of today.

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected]m.

More Fire Stories from Fire Keeper Pierre Kruger. These live recordings are a great way to try and understand some indigenous perspectives when it comes to the role of fire in our natural world. This episode we get to hear a full detailed account of a cultural burn that was done at the workshop. Pierre compares what was done on that burn with what he would normally do.

Episode highlight

In this episode, Pierre Krueger, a traditional fire-keeper and Penticton Indian Band Elder, debriefs about a cultural burn that was done at the workshop.

Resources

An Indigenous burning story featuring Pierre Krueger: https://thenib.com/prescribed-burn-forest-fires/?fbclid=IwAR1eAANy5RBrRSdqBd-gojxUefSjMNbDsgmmL2UVMP5cVFGT19LlYeJ4IfA

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

13.58 - 14.15: “We have a responsibility. If someone knew what I know or any of my family knows, they could be billionaires within 2 years because they’d exploit our knowledge.”

Takeaways

Burn debrief (1.55)

Pierre brought his own tools for the cultural burn but says that he would have preferred to wait a few days because it was not dry enough to burn. Every year is different due to the seasons and that affects the window of burning available. He normally tests the grass and does a clean burn.

“Everyone gets a chance at everything” (3.48)

Pierre’s mother looked at burning as an act of togetherness and encouraged everyone to participate to the best of their ability. Burning is also an act of communication, as animals would be forewarned to clear the areas to be burned.

Safety is the fire-keeper’s responsibility (7.47)

Pierre believes firefighters have a lot to learn from his family’s way of fire-keeping since their practice has never seen a fire go astray. He shares instances of using fire to regulate the cultivation, and how food made him and his brother strong enough to run 115 miles a day!

Land and water (13.19)

Pierre wants to teach cultural burning to the youth and other people who care for Mother Earth, to help clean the waterways. His people know how to spot the streams which are drinkable, and they consider it their responsibility to inform others if they find a bad stream to avoid.

Weather whisperers (17.35)

Pierre shares how his family has the ability to control the weather and sees great possibility in others learning this art to make a difference to the environment. He narrates an incident when his mother created a 100-foot circle of protection around them to keep the rain away.

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected]m.

Cultural burning is important for many reasons, from berry production to habitat creation it promotes sustainable ecosystems and communities. Water is one giant part of that equation. What is the connection between fire and water? How can burning more or less often, higher or lower intensities, affect water quality and fish habitat? Don Hankins has studied these questions and has answers for us.

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Don Hankins, President of the California Indian Water Commission, talks about the connection between fire and water and its impacts on creating sustainable ecosystems and communities.

Resources

California Indian Water Commission: https://ciwcwater.org/

Fires as Agents of Biodiversity: https://www.sierraforestlegacy.org/Resources/Conservation/FireForestEcology/FireScienceResearch/FireEcology/FireEcology-Martin91.pdf

Ecological grief as a mental health response to climate change-related loss: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-018-0092-2

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

20.03 - 20.14: “In Indigenous ways of thinking, we’re not just thinking about ourselves; we’re connecting to our ancestors and we are connecting down to generations unborn.”

48.58 - 49.02: “Just because you give an… Indigenous person a drip torch, doesn’t make it a cultural burn.”

58.42 - 59.00: “If you want to create or achieve reconciliation, this is one way to do it… go out and recognize the rights of Indigenous people to burn. But not only that… reconcile that through fire, reconcile it within the landscape, with people, together.”

Takeaways

Time-tested Indigenous knowledge (01.22)

Don is Plains Miwok from the Delta area of east San Francisco, and a traditional fire practitioner. He is a Professor of Geography and Planning at California State University Chico. He has been involved in fire restoration and research for more than 20 years, informed by his understanding of community needs. Don narrates the story of how he came to be involved with the restoration of cultural burning, which he regards as the culmination of the knowledge he has gained from his Elders and his academic background.

Relationship with the land helps biodiversity (06.33)

Don speaks about how they have been bringing local tribes to re-engage with fire and regenerate interest by creating a learning lab. Bringing fire back in different intensities and frequencies is also facilitating biodiversity, continuity of fuel and reduction of invasive species. The diversity of land ownership in California makes it challenging to study fire behaviour in confined landscapes, Don shares.

Reliving the fire story (14.18)

Don laments that while it is recognized that fire must be a part of the landscape, agencies are reluctant to understand how Indigenous peoples can contribute to that. Many laws passed by the government go against laws of nature, he says. He highlights the importance of the fire stories he was taught, since they teach about tools to start and tend a fire and Indigenous fire laws, and disobeying them has severe consequences.

Safety first (19.35)

Don has been taught that fire-keeping is an obligation handed down to Indigenous peoples at the time of creation, “to care for and tend to our landscape”, including the health, safety and wellbeing of the non-Indigenous people that inhabit it now. He views his duty as a fire-keeper as considerate of all the assets at risk in a burn, and that his deep connection with the landscape qualifies him to conduct the burn while keeping everything and everyone safe.

“Scale of fire changes with the relationship to water” (22.51)

“Within Indigenous knowledge systems, there is an inherent relationship between water and fire”, Don states. An important aspect of his knowledge system is the ability of a burn to bring rain. He explains how burning changes the water availability of a landscape, thus positively impacting the species diversity and cultural protection, and the research he is doing in this regard.

Risk mitigation (31.47)

Don points out that the context of the knowledge base, the seasons chosen for burning, the objectives of a burn and fire laws distinguish Indigenous burning from agency burning. The displacement of Indigenous peoples from their landscapes compelled them to learn the ways of burning of the new areas from those locals. “If you think about the landscape and you know you are working within that law of the land”, you can mitigate risks, Don observes.

Inter-generational ecological grief (35.48)

Don describes the ecological grief that countless generations of Indigenous peoples experience, in the loss of their story places, in the urbanization of traditional homelands or when they are deforested for agriculture, in climate change, and in losing familiarity with the environment and its members. He recounts instances where people he knew grieve the loss of trees of cultural significance.

This land is our land (43.12)

Don outlines positive steps that are being taken - funding for fire has been increasing in an orderly fashion, and congressional acts are matching the Indigenous laws that recognize the sovereignty of tribes beyond their reserve lands to encompass ancestral territories. Don believes that agencies have a responsibility to uphold Indigenous peoples’ rights to steward their lands, and shares how tribes are reclaiming their rights to the land. 

“For agencies, this is a job. For us, it’s our livelihoods” (45.47)

Don shares that caring for the land is a cultural obligation for Indigenous peoples. “It’s a livelihood for us and we are connected to it and we can’t get away from it unless we walk away from our culture and who we are”, he says. He is of the opinion that any funding should first be designated to the Indigenous peoples, who can then decide the allocation of funds. Following Indigenous laws is important to live sustainably on the land, he believes.

“There is a therapeutic aspect of burning” (47.27)

Don talks about the difficulties in Indigenous peoples having to adhere to agency rules in burning. A cultural burn involves knowing one’s landscape, its risks, its members, and the objective of the burn. As a fire/burn boss, Don says his knowledge is not acknowledged by agencies. When he takes any group of people to burn, he shares his knowledge of techniques and tools so they overcome their fear of fire and learn the healing powers of fire in ceremony.

Creating a universal cultural fire (59.15)

Don discusses how Indigenous groups, like in Australia, are working towards rekindling fire practice by having Indigenous peoples train others on fire knowledge. He believes in the power of Indigenous peoples developing their own standards and qualifications for fire practice that champion Indigenous sovereignty and create a culture of safety training and mindsets. He disagrees with the standard firefighter training which views fire as the enemy. 

“It’s not dangerous when you’ve been doing it for 60000 years” (1.03.48)

Don has completed the conventional wildland firefighter training as well as numerous prescribed fire workshops, across continents and habitats. He is also a certified burn boss. He recalls instances that delineate the difference between the way Indigenous peoples perceive fire and how agencies look at it. His hope is to pass on the responsibilities of cultural burning to the next generation.

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected]m.