Good Fire

Forbidden fire and the potential role of community-based fire management in the Peruvian Andes

Quotes

13.19 - 13.41: “Anytime we are on the land, you have to have good thoughts and feelings, so anytime you light a fire, you have to be in that prayerful mindset, and being in a prayerful mindset really means having that abundance of positivity within your heart and your mind.”

21.54 - 22.27: “Settlers, they are hungry for culture basically and really they need to find their own roots… they have to… trace their English or Celtic origins, whatever it is, and connect with that, so I found that eagerness to work with fire with us… came from… a hungry place of not having their own cultures.”

Takeaways

Camera Lady (03.12)

Tiffany is of Sḵx̱wu7mesh and W̱SÁNEĆ ancestry. Coast Salish Nations' protocol is to introduce their family when they introduce themselves to help others connect with them easily. She finds it important to introduce both her parents and grandparents, as well as her children, because while her parents and grandparents are the reason she came into the world, her children are the reason she stays. Her Indigenous nickname, ŚW̱, XELOSELWET, stands for ‘camera lady’, and she has a certificate in Indigenous independent filmmaking from Capilano University.

A field of blue (05.41)

Tiffany began learning about Indigenous plants and restoration work in 2014 when she participated in the ‘Growing Our Futures’ program in SȾÁUTW̱. All the Indigenous participants recognized those plants as their Indigenous medicines, and reflect fondly on being able to learn about them. She began doing land restoration in 2015 and is focused on that work, specifically camas, whose bright blue colour made a field look like a sea to a visiting botanist. Camas is a food staple whose meadows used to cover the entire landscape from Beecher Bay First Nation to Southern Vancouver Island.

Indigenous territory (08.49)

Tiffany laments that colonizers looked at the rich fertile lands, which was tended to make abundant meadows of camas, as theirs to steal. They operated under the ‘Terra nullius’ mindset wherein land was considered unoccupied unless occupied by a Christian even though there were thousands of Indigenous people living here. They considered the land wild even though the meadows were tended with controlled burns. The mighty oak used to be a companion plant to camas which grew stronger with controlled burns, and the falling branches and leaves fertilized the soil for the camas.

“We are all connected” (11.24)

Tiffany explains that the Indigenous ancestors learned that by burning the mighty oak leaves, their high acidity could be transformed into proper nutrients needed for the soil, which was clay. While the colonizers believed nothing could grow in the clay, the Indigenous peoples “grew enough camas to make it look like an ocean” and had the greatest biodiversity of any ecosystem in BC. She emphasizes the importance of having good thoughts and feelings, how having a prayerful mindset gives rise to abundant outcomes, and how everything is connected - the mind, heart, and all kinds of people.

Fire is life (18.34)

Tiffany finds that settlers don’t apply Indigenous knowledge in caring for the land, whereas Indigenous peoples have ancient wisdom that helps them anticipate the needs of the land better. However, she celebrates that Parks Canada has recognized traditional knowledge of fire as valid in land management. She discusses the considerations around holding burns near burial cairns, with some groups having always done it and some having reservations about doing so. She reflects that many people do not have a relationship with fire due to past experiences, but they can have a spiritual relationship with fire.

The settler mindset is fear-based (27.05)

Through restoration work, Tiffany has learned about an invasive plant called scotch broom, with yellow flowers and big seed pods. She found the old method of pulling out the plants ineffective and suggested a controlled burn to Parks Canada, followed by digging out seed banks using machinery. They were able to find many native plants in the soil. Indigenous people have always cared for all life, but the colonial mindset looks at humans as inherently selfish and only capable of harming the land. She finds that the colonial violence inflicted upon Indigenous lands and people has led to fear of humans.

Land back (32.19)

Tiffany does not want to live in fear of what people can do based on the dehumanizing and violent mistreatment of Indigenous lands and people by settlers. She wants to live in a healthy relationship with the land and her people, recognizing that both have lived through trauma. While the colonial mindset may give up after damage has caused trauma, the Indigenous mindset knows the tools to heal and reclaim oneself. She shares how her aunt prefers the term stewardship to signify ongoing progress, and that getting land back restores the freedom of Indigenous people to live and have a safe space.

Indigenous land stewardship (36.36)

Tiffany wants to remove grass on Indigenous lands so that native plants can be restored and berry picking can communally take place. Private landowners look at berry plants as weeds and cut them down, but they are a part of Indigenous culture. She discusses the different types of Indigenous berries and shares memories of going berry picking growing up. She wants places to exist where Indigenous people can tend the land, remove invasive species, pick berries, have ceremonies and invite people to gather to heal and learn Indigenous languages together.

The band system was imposed by colonizers (41.48)

Tiffany clarifies that colonizers divided Indigenous people into bands which came to be called First Nations, but that term is misleading because even though the groups have different dialects and family teachings, their cultures work together to create an interconnected inseparable people. It is an intention for her people to not be divided by reservations and to come together to heal. It is the policy of division that continued into physical separation at residential schools - separating children from parents, siblings from each other, and even any two Indigenous people because they didn’t want them to exist.

“Our inherent value cannot be separated from the land” (43.00)

Tiffany highlights that Indigenous people are a keystone species. The Tsawout First Nation used to be very green but since the farmland was stolen by colonizers, it has become yellow. 80% of the world’s biodiversity is protected by Indigenous people, which means protecting Indigenous peoples is key to protecting the ecosystem. Indigenous peoples have been confined to tiny reserves but they have maintained their culture, language, and medicinal knowledge. However, there is more opportunity for them to expand in their existence as the original people of the land.

Sacred relationships (46.05)

Tiffany was raised to believe all life is sacred, and is uncomfortable objectifying land as a property with a numerical monetary value. In the same way, she is uncomfortable objectifying people as a Two-spirit person herself. She feels an immense love for women as powerful and beautiful life-givers, but unfortunately, others have a transactional relationship with them, especially with wanting women to do emotional labour. She believes rage needs to be unleashed on such people to help them wake up and take personal accountability for the work.

Personal accountability (49.48)

Tiffany acknowledges that she grew up with a lot of safety; her parents never used shaming words or pressured her to go against her wishes. “There was in a way a lack of discipline, but when it came down to their choice of, do I push this small human to live up to some sort of expectations, or do I just let them exist? My parents chose to let me exist. I think there is a lot of medicine I received from my parents by them treating me that way”, she claims. She wants to share that love and acceptance with others who didn’t receive it and treat them with reverence and sacredness so they can be themselves.

“It takes many hands to do great work” (52.07)

Encouraging someone to be themselves helps them express their best self, Tiffany believes. When she came to her parents as bisexual in her late 20s, she was met with excitement and gratitude. So she believes in supporting someone in their self-expression of their best self, whether that be berry picking, or making blueberry pie with those berries. Her self-expression is to remove invasive species and plant native ones, but she does not make medicines. She wants to support women in easing the pressure of expectations on them and support them in sharing the work and finding a way to express themselves.

Even colonizer bees don’t care about Indigenous bees (56.37)

Tiffany shares that the Coastal Douglas-fir zone (CDF) has the most plant biodiversity because it was tended to by Indigenous people with controlled burns. She began learning about pollinators through Pollinator Partnership and became certified as a Pollinator Steward. She explains the difference between Indigenous solitary bees and social bees, and how many foods wouldn’t exist without the bees' pollination work. Bringing pollinator bees to different plants improves their health. Indigenous bees do not pollinate beyond 100 m, while colonizer bees can pollinate miles away from their hive.

All we’ve ever needed is an opportunity to exist (1.05.02)

Tiffany talks about the story she wrote titled SEMSEMÍYE, which talks about the origin of the bee, similar to other origin stories in her culture. She aims to share the behaviours and experiences of the bee that she learned in her Pollinator Stewardship Certification course. She believes the Indigenous pollinator bees will always care for the land. Just like the bees will always pollinate as long as there are flowers, Indigenous women will always care for the land as long as there is access to it. Her learning helped her understand her role within the ecosystem and community, and she wants to help other women do so.

Finding galaxies in a flower petal (01.08.09)

Tiffany observes that people are drawn to Coast Salish people because of how they share. Just like the camas plant is important to Indigenous people not just as a food staple, but also important to the pollinator bees because it is easy to access, she believes Coast Salish peoples deserve to exist in that openness in relationship to one another. There is immense beauty in Indigenous cultures, and they have a right to exist to protect themselves. “Just be a good relative, value me, see me as sacred, don’t try to hurt me, and also trust that’s how I see you”, she signs off.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

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The Social Dynamics of Fire Management with Vanessa Luna-Celino

20 mars 2025 | min

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integrity

The Social Dynamics of Fire Management with Vanessa Luna-Celino

Episode highlight

In this episode, Vanessa Luna-Celino talks about how community-based fire management is the way to sustaining forests.

Resources

Vanessa Luna-Celino

Vanessa’s Website

Documentary - Farmers and Fire: Local efforts in dealing with wildfires in Peru

Sponsors

Canada Wildfire

https://fusee.org/fusee/indigenous-cultural-burning-crew-returns-good-fire-to-oregons-willamette-valley

Quotes

16.20 - 16.23: “Not every person in these peasant communities interacts with fire in the same way. There are of course power relationships and power dynamics; there are different needs of fire.”

29.57 - 30.12: “Part of my research also has to do with understanding the different narratives of what to do with fire and the role of fire in the landscape and for rural wellbeing.”

Takeaways

Meet Vanessa Luna-Celino (02.58)

Vanessa recently completed a PhD in Interdisciplinary Ecology from the University of Florida. She studied biology in her hometown, Lima, Peru, and then became interested in the social dimensions of conservation. Her PhD focussed on community-based fire management in the Peruvian Andes. She points out that with climate change, wildfires have become more commonplace in Peru. But with large populations living in the Andean and coastal regions, wildfires pose a threat.

The people of the land (05.26)

Vanessa has been working with communities who see annual wildfires ranging from 10 to 500+ hectares. While these fires may not be large, the territory they emerge in has been occupied for millennia, starting with the Inca empire to present- day Indigenous and mestizo (a mix of European and Indigenous descent) farmers. Most of this high Peruvian Andean landscape is filled with rural communities, called campesino communities, that collectively own and manage the land.

Indigenous communities of Peru (8.20)

Peru has a population of more than 30 million people, with a few million in the Andean region. The Indigenous groups who live in the south of the Andes are the Aymara and Quechua. In the Amazonian region, more than 60% of the territory has over 50 Indigenous groups, some only with a population of 500-1000 who speak their Indigenous language. The Indigenous group that has the most inhabitants in the country are the Quechua, who have been a part of Vanessa’s research.

Finding Fire (09.22)

Vanessa worked as a biologist at a biological station for many years in the Peruvian Andes and Amazon. Sometimes, a fire in the Quechua community on one side would spread into the national park on the other side and into the 600 hectares of biological station land, and she observed a complex relationship between the Indigenous Quechua group and the firefighters and park rangers, with farmers and cultural burning being blamed. She then began studying the cultural aspects of Indigenous peoples using fire.

Complex dimensions of fire use (12.57)

Vanessa was part of the Tropical Conservation and Development Program at the University of Florida which encourages researchers to partner with local communities, training them in a group on collaboration, conflict management, and Indigenous rights. She went back to her Indigenous coworkers and the surrounding community at the biological station with curiosity, wanting to simply begin her research by spending time with them and observing their approaches to and practices of fire.

Differences in community practices (15.32)

Vanessa considers herself blessed to have had the funding and time to spend a month each in every community over 3 fire seasons. She observed that different community members interact with fire in different ways, with farmers in remote areas using fire more than the ones in the main village. The community members slowly became more open when talking to Vanessa about their practices, once they understood she was there to learn and not instruct.

The pros and cons of elevated farms (17.19)

Vanessa found that rural areas need to use more fire due to the elevation and highly rugged landscape. These communities traditionally took advantage of the elevation differences to grow their traditional crops, with over 100 varieties of potatoes, and grapes and corn. Elevated farms that are surrounded by vegetation that has overgrown are the most vulnerable to having runaway fires, and it’s harder for them to access help to put out those fires.

Approaches to fire (20.15)

Vanessa notes that while Indigenous communities do use fire for rituals on a small scale, they don’t use it to manage the land. They learnt to use fire in their farms from the Spanish for agricultural purposes, to renew grass or get rid of residue. What is seen today on the farms is a blend of Indigenous and European agricultural practices. Communities see fire use and firefighting as a masculine task, but urban populations see more women participating. However, more Indigenous female participation is needed.

Colonization of mindsets (24.53)

Vanessa observes that the community dynamics are patriarchal and “that may have to do with Spanish introduction of ways of doing things”. Men are considered the head of the household, and she believes that is something that needs attention because it talks about different vulnerabilities of fire in terms of gender dynamics which applies to the use of fire. The families want to use the land and fire, but it is the man who has the most active role, and the wife and children support the man.

Burn, one way or another (27.48)

Vanessa describes the high Peruvian Andes as highly humanized because people have been on the land for 15,000 years. There are Puna grasslands in the high-elevation regions, some patches of Andean forest, and clout forest as one gets closer to the Amazon. The communities she works with live in the part of the highlands close to the Amazon and have collaborated for the past 20 years with environmental organizations that have promoted firefighting brigades and park rangers in the communities. This creates an interesting dynamic between protecting the forests vs using them for water and ecosystem services.

Community land use (30.39)

Vanessa shares that a large portion of Peruvian territory is owned and collectively managed by rural Indigenous communities who have a lot of autonomy in decision making and governance. In the community she collaborated with, there are 500 families, and the land belongs to the community, with one member of each family attending the bi-monthly official meetings. They can request a piece of land to farm but must comply with the requirements of the land use established in that community.

Strong collective action (32.49)

The Indigenous communities have different committees for fire and water, to ensure those resources are being managed well for the benefit of the entire community. The first response to a wildfire is from the communities because they are remote, and they organize themselves to successfully put it out most of the time. So, the most efficient way is to enable these communities with training and equipment, so they are most prepared to rapidly respond in the event of a wildfire.

Playing with fire (35.02)

Vanessa describes the complex relation with external parties in the situation. While everyone agrees on training to be able to respond to fire, there isn’t an agreement on the rights of using fire. Community members agree on the need to use fire since it has been used on the land for a long time, but Peruvian Forestry Law prohibits the use of fire, even for cultural purposes. So, external parties insist that fire must not be used, but the autonomy of the community ensures they are protected even if they do.

Fire on film (37.24)

Farmers have expressed to Vanessa that wildfires becoming more common worries them because they see the changes in weather, more droughts, less water and less forest, which affects their agricultural produce. After her research was completed, Vanessa created a documentary with a grant from her university and an all-Peruvian cast and crew. She shared the documentary with the community and all key parties in order to disseminate that information back to them.

Effective community measures (42.24)

Vanessa believes that all key parties must have effective communication to use the limited resources more effectively. To that end, she organized workshops using the integrated fire management framework to bring them together and discuss their thoughts on how they think Andean landscapes have changed and will change in rural relationships with fire and what is needed to manage fire in Peru. While the attendance was not very high, those who came were willing to challenge their perceptions.

High risk of wildfires (45.48)

Vanessa laments that most communities don’t have the equipment needed to respond appropriately to fire. The communities that have received training from external parties have benefitted the most since they are the first responders to a fire, with firefighters not reaching on time. While some fires begin with accidents or rituals, most fires are escape fires from agricultural burns. A wildfire will quickly go through the plains’ Puna grassland and up the slope to farms and plantations, especially the flammable species.

Recovering from wildfires (50.21)

Vanessa finds that how quickly farmers begin reusing the land after a wildfire depends on how intense it was. The recovery time on the landscape can be rapid when it has affected vegetation such as grasslands or bushes, but it takes longer when it affects the nearby clout forest, which worries key parties. The landscape is highly varied with grasslands, tree plantations and forests, and has been highly humanized. She hopes to encourage other researchers and students to research more on this issue.

Protecting the forests (55.10)

Vanessa speaks about humanized landscapes in the Peruvian Andes in her ecological and anthropological research because Indigenous Peoples have been living in the high Andes for at least 10,000 years and have farmed the lands and brought fire to it. With the Spanish colonization, new crops and ways of managing the land were introduced, and now only relics of the Andean forests remain. That has caused many more escape fires in recent years, and a lot more research is needed to manage land better.

Community-based conservation (58.57)

Vanessa’s shift from biological to social science reflects the recognition that in a country like Peru, where there are a lot of rural people that own and manage land and where the former narrative of biodiversity conservation is no longer working, we need to shift to community-based conservation. She believes researchers and conservationists should collaborate with the communities of the Andes and Amazon to help them to conserve those forests for the benefit of all.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

We Are Fire People with Jessica Angel

13 mars 2025 | min

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integrity

We Are Fire People with Jessica Angel

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Jessica Angel talks to Amy Cardinal Christianson and Vikki Preston about being an Indigenous trans woman bringing back fire to her Nation.

Resources

Jessica Angel

Ecostudies Institute

Docket 234 Funds

Sponsors

Association for Fire Ecology 10th International Fire Ecology and Management Congress

Quotes

23.30 - 23.33: “The best teacher when it comes to working with fire is fire.”

33.19 – 33.23: “Some good smoke is part of preventing a larger quantity of bad smoke down the road.”

56.02 - 56.28: “It’s been really interesting to… show up with this zeal for fire as… an Indigenous trans woman… because, let me tell you, the fire world is stacked against Indigenous peoples and more so stacked against Indigenous women. It isn’t even beginning to crack open… trans people let alone… trans people who are Indigenous or Black or POC or BIPOC in some way.”

Takeaways

Meet Jessica Angel (07.59)

Jessica is an Indigenous trans woman, a cultural fire practitioner and an enrolled member of the Chinook Indian Nation. Until recently, she worked at Ecostudies Institute in Olympia, Washington. She now works to approach cultural Indigenous fire from a community perspective. Her Nation recently had their second ever prescribed fire since colonization, and she found it a different experience to attend it as an individual as opposed to with an organization or agency.

“How do you be a good steward of your land using fire in the 21st century?” (11.43)

Jessica became involved in Indigenous fire over three years ago. She got her FFT-2 qualification to become a basic wildland firefighter, but believes it is a big barrier to Indigenous peoples being able to participate in burning on their land, since the certification is required by many agencies. She is a founding member of the all-Indigenous cultural burn crew, The Wagon Burners. They have had many burning sessions over Oregon and Washington and are planning how to continue operations into the future.

Burning to protect endangered species (14.34)

Jessica shares that Ecostudies Institute workson land where there was some good fire till the 20th century, after which it was turned into a joint military and air force base, where there are radioactive materials to this day. The detonation activity and the weaponry are not positive for the endangered plant diversity. Ecostudies Institute was able to step in and create agreements to allow prescribed fire, helping kill invasive species and protect the endangered ones.

Fire is the best teacher (19.30)

As an Indigenous person, Jessica experiences cognitive dissonance being around men with guns, given the history of the US Government participating in the genocide of Indigenous peoples all across the USA. As a young person involved in fire, she feels privileged to have access to a lot of knowledge and many teachers and the ability to burn often. It’s interesting to her to compare the perspectives of academicians with those who have hands-on experience with fire.

Connection to fire (24.58)

Jessica credits her grandmother for her journey into the world of fire. Her grandmother would burn on her farm in Oregon with tall flames. She believes that Chinook peoples are “just beginning our revitalization of fire practices”. She recalls a training session she attended to help make the FFT-2 certification more culturally appropriate, and a burn which made her realize she wanted to work in cultural fire for the rest of her life.

Cultural burning (30.22)

Jessica shares that when her mother was a child, many non-native farmers burned on their fields, but because it was uncoordinated, the smoke became an issue and many strict regulations had to be put into place. This then presented a huge barrier to Indigenous farmers who wanted to burn, especially in the short burning windows they had. While burning is part of Indigenous culture and history, Jessica jokes about how that tendency manifests in burning other things.

Recognizing unceded lands (34.40)

Jessica feels privileged to be part of a group of Chinook peoples helping to get fire back on the land now. The Chinook Indian Nation is not one of the 500 Tribes that have federal recognition in the USA. However, they are “celebrating a victory and a step forward with the decision to recognize us as the inheritors of these Docket 234 funds”, says Jessica, recognizing them as heirs to their own ancestry and territory. Last year, they were able to return fire to West End Island, an important fishing spot.

Reciprocity is required (39.40)

“You have to be in an intentional give and take relationship with the land”, Jessica states. She finds that the “settler mindset of… taming nature” gets in the way of the protection of endangered species. However, Indigenous understanding of nature and the application of that in cultural burning makes her feel grateful. She was involved in a burn on her family’s ancestral land where many Chinook people lit their first flames, sang and were blessed by the sighting of a bald eagle.

The people of the river (49.36)

Jessica is excited for the resurgence of knowledge for her community, especially as coastal peoples, since the evidence of fire existing in their Nation is in their traditional stories. She describes the traditional territories of the Chinook peoples and where they have dispersed now. The Chinook Indian Nation is the people at the mouth of the Columbia river and lower Columbia. There are three distinct groups of Chinook peoples who each have different nations that they associate themselves with.

“It’s not easy for any woman to work in fire” (54.00)

Jessica feels committed to working in fire, even though it is a difficult and intense career choice. For a trans woman, harassment, transphobia and misogyny are unfortunately common factors of the workplace. She finds it ironic how some people are afraid of fire, not of other people, whereas for her, fire is safe, but some people may not be. She finds that inclusivity is lagging behind in the fire world, where white women feminism is marginalizing and harming Indigenous and trans people.

“As an Indigenous trans woman, I am willing to be blunt and forward in advocating for those changes to happen because my involvement in fires is already one where most people don’t want me there.”

Fighting alone (59.25)

Jessica acknowledges that it is difficult and lonely to be an advocate, but she feels committed to speaking her truths. She is aware that she will not always be welcomed, and she has to be mindful of which jobs will put her safety or life at risk. She asks herself, “Are they worth choosing to tokenize myself in the workplace or choosing to put myself in harm’s way emotionally and physically?” She is pained by other people who uphold colonial or patriarchal systems in spaces that should otherwise be safe.

“A future where fire is in the hands of everyday people” (1.06.31)

Jessica feels hopeful that more people are wanting to be involved in cultural fire. She wants to create opportunities for Indigenous peoples of all ages and gender identities to be involved in fire without sitting through extensive trainings. Indigenous peoples have stewarded the land and protected their communities through fire since time immemorial, and the knowledge of fire and of trans people was removed from their communities through colonization. Jessica educates others on that rich, gender-diverse history.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend and send your feedback and comments to [email protected].

Healing Trauma Through Burning with Vikki Preston and Monique Wynecoop

6 mars 2025 | min

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integrity

Healing Trauma Through Burning with Vikki Preston and Monique Wynecoop

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Vikki and Monique talk about the role of Indigenous women in fire and the path to bringing fire back on the land.

Resources

Vikki Preston

Monique Wynecoop

Jessica Conrad

https://www.hcn.org/issues/55-1/indigenous-affairs-wildfire-what-if-indigenous-women-ran-controlled-burns/

https://yff.yale.edu/speaker/monique-wynecoop-atsugewi-mountain-maidu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK77EWDJeoU

Sponsors

Canada’s record-breaking wildfires in 2023: A fiery wake-up call

Quotes

42.41 – 42.46: “There is a place for me, and it doesn’t need to be in the system that’s not working.”

50.06 – 50.16 “It’s our journey as… mothers and matriarchs and leaders to make sure we are protecting the younger future generations.”

Takeaways

Meet Vikki Preston (02.14)

Vikki is from the Karuk Tribe and has lived in rural Orleans, California for most of her life. She works as the Cultural Resource Technician for the Department of Natural Resources of the Karuk Tribe. Being at the Association for Fire Ecology 10th International Fire Ecology and Management Congress has been made more significant for her due to the “strong native presence”. Growing up Indigenous, she used to listen to basket weavers talking about fire being a big part of “the lived experience of being Indigenous”. As a basket weaver herself, she is constantly connected to the importance of fire in her culture.

Meet Monique Wynecoop (05.59)

Monique is Pit River/Mountain Maidu on her mother’s side and Italian American on her father’s. Her ancestors are always on her mind, and she has been educating her children and family about residential schools. She has worked for the forest service for 16 years now and takes pride in working in the same profession as her father did his whole career. She is excited to be working with the Bureau of Indian Affairs as Tri-Regional Fire Ecologist for the Northwest, Alaska, and Rocky Mountain Regions so that she can help the tribes in those areas access the resources they need for fire and fuels management, and cultural burning.

Rebuilding the relationship between the land and community (08.18)

For the last 16 years, Monique has been living in the ancestral territories of her children’s father’s tribe, the Spokane Tribe. “I’m at that point in my life where I want to be the matriarch I needed”, she notes, and works to teach the children by example. She was contacted by Dr. Melodi Wynne, the Food Sovereignty manager for Spokane Tribal Network and the Spokane Tribe, to work on the Food Sovereignty Garden for the Spokane Tribe. She helps communicate how fire is important for food sovereignty which in turn is essential for community wellness.

“Delayed justice” (11.04)

Vikki emphasizes the importance of Indigenous women being at the forefront of telling the stories of their community. Monique shares how it is her moment to tell the stories that her mother or great aunt were not able to share either due to the trauma or fear, to help deliver justice for her ancestors. Vikki continues to be inspired to work in fire so that no woman in her community is made to feel small. She encourages women to speak up, especially the younger generation. Monique tries to give herself the same advice she gives her children - to not apologize for speaking the truth.

Indigenous fire management (16.34)

Vikki appreciates working with strong women like Jessica Conrad, who has done some amazing work in wildlife and fire and reinforces the role Indigenous women play in protecting land, cultural resources and community. The work they do for wildland fires in culturally relevant areas for the Karuk Tribe, speaking up and having a say, is important in the face of outside management teams using suppression tactics that the tribe doesn’t agree with. Now, their cutting tribe goes to the forest with tribal representatives and heritage consultants on the ground to ensure better processes.

“Don’t stop being the way you are” (20.41)

Vikki is often the only Indigenous woman in a fire camp and feels judged; she does not like to see other people experience that feeling of being unwelcome. “Sometimes it’s about being someone, someone else can feel supported by”, she explains. She finds it important to have someone who can help you overcome the negativity in the fire world. She shares a negative experience she had with other firefighters on a recent TREX (prescribed fire training exchange). Her father, who has been in fire his whole life, told her, “They are never going to accept you but don’t stop being the way you are”, which allowed her to step into a leadership role at Karuk’s Women’s TREX.

The canoe journey (24.36)

Vikki talks about how the land holds trauma and being on the land can help you heal your own trauma as well as that of the land. Being a matriarch and helping her children participate in their culture is her way of healing the trauma of being separated from the tribe after her divorce. She is happy to organize community gatherings for her tribe to help them see a good snapshot of Indigenous women in fire and burn together. Having a supportive learning environment to burn and ask questions, like the Fire Congress provided, also makes the burns go well, she believes.

Demilitarizing fire (32.32)

Vikki ponders about the tools she can offer from her experience with the federal government to “help people put more good fire on the ground”. She has received some great ideas from her interactions with others at the Fire Congress. Monique believes that fire is already too militarized, and that no workforce should be created within the military to do prescribed burning. She laments that western standards consider fire to be a liability but participating in cultural burning with families is important to understand the intergenerational aspect of the cultural practices. Vikki agrees that children should be allowed to burn.

Representation matters (36.51)

Monique has observed that her children feel content and proud of their families when they are actively participating in their culture and seeing representation. She goes to talk to their non-tribal school about cultural burning and fire ecology, and being some of the few native kids at that school makes her children step up to talk about it. “Kids aren’t that much different from adults; when we see representation, we speak up as well - we tend to shine brighter”. Vikki is also proud of the representation of Indigenous peoples at the conference but knows that decolonizing fire from an academic approach is still far away.

“You should know your land the best” (41.45)

Monique advocates for more fire practitioners to tell their story instead of academics. Telling the stories themselves is important, especially for those who have not been able to share their stories. She finds that the western scientific community is elitist and that not enough application of research has taken place. Vikki believes the strongest education one can have is talking to people who are doing the work, which helps build a community that feels like home. Vikki finds sharing her ancestors’ stories is a way to help deliver justice and undo Indigenous erasure.

Academic decolonization (52.30)

Vikki believes that stereotypes perpetuated by non-Indigenous peoples should not be available for citation for students. Monique has found that lots of racist content gets perpetuated and elevated through citation. She grew up learning from her family members about the effects colonization had on Indigenous peoples and wants to work to help future generations “feel like they belong on their ancestral homelands”. Her goal is to visit the tribes whose lands she works on to talk about functional learning and build relationships by attending cultural ceremonies as an example for her children.

Looking ahead (1.04.04)

Vikki is looking forward to organizing more Karuk Indigenous Women’s TREX to bring back more feedback to the prescribed fire world. She also wants to organize more events for women in fire, especially queer or trans folks in fire to create a safe space for them. Vikki highlights the condition of Indigenous peoples in Palestine and urges listeners to consider how they can support the Indigenous communities there.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend and send your feedback and comments to [email protected].

Learning Fire with Charity Battise

2 januari 2025 | min

Good Fire Season 3 Teaser

17 januari 2024 | min

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integrity

Episode highlight

Join Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff as they give a sneak peek at what to expect in Good Fire’s third season.

Resources

Intentional Fire Podcast by Vikki Preston

Sponsors

Fire Country: How Indigenous Fire Management Could Help Save Australia by Victor Steffensen

Quotes

12.20 - 12.35: “We can’t change the weather… and we can’t change the climate at the moment, but there are things that we can do and one of those is changing the fuel that’s available to burn and the vegetation that you can burn… and one of the ways to do that is through good fire.”

Takeaways

Women are the backbone of good fire (01.36)

Amy wants to focus the third season of the Good Fire podcast on matriarchs. After attending an Indigenous Women’s fire training event in the USA, she was inspired to see 30 women come together from different First Nations to deliberate how fire affects their communities. An Elder shared with her that the women in a community direct the men to go out and burn.

Burns, burning and burnout (04.56)

Amy is a Research Scientist with the Canadian Forest Service but has recently been on secondment with Parks Canada as an Indigenous Fire Specialist. This year has seen unprecedented fires across Canada. Canada has depended on help from other countries, and firefighters are feeling burnt out.

15.2 million hectares in Canada burnt this year (08.28)

Amy hopes that practicing good fire will alleviate the strain on firefighting and reduce their risk on the job. She highlighted that years of fire exclusion have led to runaway wildfires.

An opportunity for a reset (13.17)

Amy highlights that even though fires were frequent before this land was colonized, tree rings indicate they were not as intense as they are now. Elder Joe Gilchrist shared with Amy that these wildfires are a good opportunity to reset overgrown forests for cultural burning.

Reducing the requirement of resilience (18.19)

Amy praises how the Chief and Council Little Red River Cree Nation and the community of Fox Lake have responded to the fires by building homes and supporting community members. However, she is saddened by the resilience they have had to show and hopes to see progress in external fire management.

Guest wish list (23.20)

Amy hopes to have Vikki Preston on the podcast, but her community is also impacted by the fire. Her podcast, Intentional Fire invites guests from Vikki’s Nation to talk about how they use good fire.

Indigenous stewardship (24.46)

Amy believes that Indigenous knowledge keepers needn’t seek permission to perform cultural burning on their lands. She pushes for policies and regulations to be re-examined so that land can be cared for in a way that is in line with Indigenous knowledge.

The Abundance Will Be Forever with Victor Steffensen and Ado Webster

19 september 2022 | min

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural empowerment and environmental integrity

The Abundance Will Be Forever with Victor Steffensen and Ado Webster

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Victor Steffensen and Ado Webster reflect on their experiences as Indigenous fire-keepers.

Resources

Victor and Ado’s Bios

Looking After Country with Fire: Aboriginal Burning Knowledge With Uncle Kuu

Great Land by Mulong

Sponsors

Support from:

Quotes

10.52 - 10.56: “We’re not governed by anyone but ourselves and by our culture and by our country.”

Takeaways

Rediscovering culture, discovering oneself (3.55)

Ado has recently begun working with Firesticks in the capacity of an employee, and loves working in an Aboriginal cultural environment where “the knowledge is safe, the sharing is safe and people are safe”.

For the landscape and the people (9.00)

Ado thrives on the cultural exchange that takes place between Nations as part of his work now, something colonization deprived his community of. He is passionate about helping children access culture freely.

Work that heals (14.40)

Victor notes that working with the country helps liberate Aboriginal peoples from stereotypes that they are not hardworking. Work that heals the land for the future inspires youth to do the right thing to enhance their connection with the land.

“Climate change is mother nature telling us to change” (19.17)

Victor laments that the negative messaging in the media makes us feel helpless against climate change. He brings attention to the disasters humans have lived through, and that this can also be salvaged by “doing the good work”.

When you care for the country, it cares back (28.23)

Ado reassures that cultural burning is safe, which is why many go barefoot for a cultural burn. He feels a sense of oneness with all inhabitants of the land, and disagrees with preferential protective equipment for humans but not for the other animals.

Fire, language and country (33.11)

Ado narrates how Victor demonstrated to Ado’s Nation, his knowledge of the land that applies across different territories. Victor adds that landscapes have many similarities in values, and bringing the country back is the missing piece in reviving cultural knowledge.

Let us do it our way (38.48)

Ado speaks about the National Indigenous Fire Workshop they conducted for nations across Australia, where they did a cultural burn which lasted 13 days. Not having burned due to colonization has changed the landscape, and is causing sickness in the forests.

The whole world gets affected (47.33)

Ado says that knowledge opens up minds with the truth but it makes it more difficult to tolerate the wrong things being done. Everyone was impacted by the large bushfires in Australia, and he feels strongly about people experiencing the benefits of cultural burning.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast: [email protected] and [email protected].

Celebrating Success with Victor Steffenson and Ado Webster

12 september 2022 | min

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Victor Steffenson and Ado Webster talk about cultural burning in Australia and the work Firesticks is doing to promote it.

Resources

Fire Country: How Indigenous Fire Management Could Help Save Australia by Victor Steffensen

Looking After Country with Fire: Aboriginal Burning Knowledge With Uncle Kuu

by Victor and Sandra Steffensen

Cool Burning

Good Fire in Guyana with Kayla de Freitas and Nicolas Cyril

29 augusti 2022 | min

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment, and environmental integrity

Good Fire In Guyana with Kayla de Freitas and Nicholas Cyril

Episode highlight

In this episode, Kayla and Nicholas talk about the cultural burning practices in Guyana.

Resources

SRDC

Kayla De-Freitas

Sponsors

Support from:

International Association of Wildland Fire

Quotes

41.54 - 42.04: “So much of that knowledge about fire and fire use and farming, hunting, is learned by doing and by living there and living that life.”

Takeaways

Fire since time immemorial (04.02)

Nicholas has worked for 10 years at SRDC as a part-time researcher. He explains that fire in his territory has always been used and continues to be used for various reasons.

The changing face of fire (10.55)

Kayla’s research focus is the changing practices of Indigenous fire management and local fire governance.

Timeless wisdom, current realities (13.17)

Kayla describes who was interviewed for her research study and the regional fire management plan.

Indigenous land rights (17.17)

Nicholas notes that Indigenous peoples are allowed to burn in the villages. Kayla adds that Indigenous communities can make their own rules concerning resource governance.

Towards the creation of a fire policy (19.35)

The Indigenous communities in South Rupununi are working to create a local fire policy appropriate to their landscape.

Burning season (23.46)

Kayla highlights the seasonal fire calendar that the district council uses and a collection of interview responses on putting fire on the landscape.

Beyond fire (25.53)

Kayla shares how enriching it has been to work with Indigenous communities alongside Nicholas, learning about the landscape, experiencing hospitality and developing connections.

Bringing fire back (33.46)

Nicholas mentions how management of fire is changing in the communities to a direct style where the council makes decisions for the community.

Valuing Indigenous knowledge (35.52)

Nicholas speaks about how people are moving away from the traditional way of life. Kayla comments on how Indigenous knowledge was erased by settlers, but is being reclaimed.

Following in the ancestor’s footsteps (41.40)

Nicholas delineates the process of a burn, when traditional knowledge is relied upon. Kayla laments that the government only pays lip service to Indigenous knowledge and practices.

The sum of the parts (49.44)

Kayla narrates how fire management plans are being updated in consultation with Indigenous groups, and how opt-in arrangements work for their lands.

Looking ahead (54.25)

Nicholas says the Indigenous communities are mindful of burning in the right seasons and work with nature’s cycles. He describes how burning assists animals in breeding.

Preventing brain drain (1.04.57)

Kayla mentions that the SRDC is creating opportunities for trained Guyanese people to stay in the country and serve the community. Nicholas’ work with SRDC is inspired by the desire to keep Indigenous knowledge alive and affirm Indigenous land rights.

Fire Futures with Indigenous Researchers

22 augusti 2022 | min

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment, and environmental integrity

Early Career Panel

Episode highlight

This episode is a recording of a session at the IAWF Fire & Climate conference in Pasadena CA, featuring early career researchers who are re-kindling cultural burning.

Resources

Sponsors

Support from:

California’s Strategic Plan for Expanding the Use of Beneficial Fire

Quotes

16.25 - 16.29: “Indigenous people don’t need us to speak on their behalf, they can speak on their own behalf.”

Takeaways

“In a good way” (05.02)

Melinda Adams, San Carlos Apache Tribal member, and PhD candidate at UC Davis, shares how agency representatives took a step away from fire suppression in one of the first CalFire cultural fire workshops at Cache Creek Conservancy in Woodland, CA.

The benefits of cultural fire (06.42)

Melinda narrates how the burn was concentrated on restoring tule, an ecologically and culturally significant plant. This highlights how cultural fire is important for long-term carbon storage, water holding potential and cultural reunification.

Collaboration, consultation and consent (07.57)

Melinda hopes for burning to take place with Indigenous peoples, to undo the impacts of colonialism and unburden future generations from climate change.

Good relations (11.11)

Carly Dominguez is of Indigenous Mexican heritage. Her work with cultural fire is inspired by her desire to improve water health.

Fire has always been good (13.30)

Carly is being trained through the Indigenous cultural burn network.

“Fire has a special place in my heart” (17.41)

Deniss Martinez is a Ph.D. candidate at UC Davis. Learning from local Indigenous communities helped her reconnect with her Indigenous roots and relearn fire.

Getting stuff done (19.54)

William Madrigal Jr., or Will, is associated with Climate Science Alliance, a nonprofit based in San Diego that supports and collaborates with Indigenous tribes in addressing climate change disparities.

Facing climate change (22.19)

Nina Fontana is a postdoctoral researcher at the University of California, Davis in collaboration with the USGS Southwest Climate Adaptation Science Center.

Relationships over acres (26.10)

Deniss observes that when relationships are built and in place, more equitable decision-making takes place during a crisis.

Trust takes time (30.57)

Carly suggests approaching practices and policies with openness and Nina advises including the community in all aspects of the project from the beginning.

Researching back to life (35.59)

Melinda notes that Indigenous peoples conducting research helps move their initiatives and collaborations forward. She is excited about young people getting involved in burning and the openness of other researchers to this learning.

“We have to have hope” (40.16)

As a native person whose ancestors survived so much, Melinda believes it is her duty to lead with hope.

“Connection brings me hope” (43.22)

Understanding the traditional way humans can fulfil our responsibilities to the following seven generations gives Will hope for a better future. Nina finds hope in hearing about species coming back to landscapes.

Cultural Fire in California with Don Hankins

25 juli 2022 | min

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural empowerment and environmental integrity

Update: Cultural Fire in California with Don Hankins

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Don Hankins talks about new developments around cultural burning in California and his hopes for the future.

Resources

Sponsors

Support from:

Quotes

24.52 - 24.53: “We definitely have to connect culture to fire.”

Takeaways

Cultural torch bearers (01.52)

Don is Plains Miwok from the central valley of California’s Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta. He believes that due to the wildfires in California, initiatives are taking place that recognize the place of Indigenous fire.

Revitalizing cultural fire (4.37)

Various policy barriers - access to land and funding and permission to burn using traditional laws - are being addressed through the creation of a tribally chartered non-profit organization to support learning, advance policy efforts and act as a refunding and redistribution entity.

Building and empowering the youth (07.16)

Don looks to the youth to carry Indigenous knowledge of fire into the future and seeks young people from his Nation to mentor. Knowledge holders training the youth to understand the cultural reasons for burning, read the landscape and maintain culture will enable the youth to step into decision-making roles and policy arenas.

Enabling cultural burning (11.49)

Don speaks about California Bill SB 332 which allows certified burn bosses and cultural burners to burn, and that if they meet certain conditions, they shall not be liable for any fire suppression or other costs otherwise recoverable for a burn.

Spreading like good fire (16.05)

Don also speaks about California Bill AB 642 which primarily codifies the definitions of cultural fire and incentivizes agencies to work with cultural burners to implement plans and enable Indigenous stewardship.

Cultural fire progress (20.21)

Don lists some challenges to advancing cultural fire - the criteria for declaring someone trained and the sensitivities around tribal sovereignty for that declaration. If someone is not exposed to cultural fire training, errors in the process could occur.

Learning from fire (23.42)

Don shares that if you are gentle with fire and approach it in a good way, you can learn from it, or you can learn the lessons the hard way. Thinking about the reasons for burning helps look for learning opportunities in burning. Don’s approach to burning changes according to the requirement, but praying and acknowledging the land is always a part of it.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected]m.

Fire In Zimbabwe with Ntando Nondo

18 juli 2022 | min

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment, and environmental integrity

Episode highlight

In this episode, Ntando Nondo talks about Indigenous land stewardship and fire management practices in Zimbabwe.

Resources

Ntando Nondo’s Profile

Southern Africa Fire Network (SAFNET)

Sponsors

Support from:

Joe Gilchrist describes how fire has changed the landscape

Quotes

42.08 - 42.16: “If there is a fire, you better use the little water you have to save your property.”

Takeaways

Fire management strategies (05.49)

Ntando shares that the fire management plan involves protecting the ecological regions depending on the amount of rainfall received, the wildlife living in the region and the kind of farming done there.

The many uses and sources of fire (12.45)

For Indigenous peoples, fire is the primary source of energy and a cultural entity. Wildland fires can be started by a locomotive, electrical faults, or lightning.

Good fire (19.30)

Ntando explains that previously, communities were in charge of fire management on their own lands but fire now has regulations associated with it. They do their burning in designated areas ahead of the fire season, to reduce the fuel available to burn and reduce fire intensity.

Indigenous partnership with the government (25.58)

The 15+ Indigenous groups in Zimbabwe manage their lands on a day-to-day basis in consultation with the government.

Coming together to avert disasters (33.39)

Zimbabwe is a member of the Southern Africa Fire Network (SAFNET), a voluntary organization that shares strategies on fire management and developments across borders using remote sensing to alert neighbouring countries.

Beating the fires (39.26)

Ntando describes a fire beater as a wooden stick of 1.5m to 2m with a 40 X 60 cm piece of rubber on one end used to beat the fire grounds to remove oxygen from the fire. They also use sprayers, sprinklers and other tools to disperse chemicals and water.

Prepare for the worst, expect the best (43.29)

Ntando recalls the 2010 fire in the Midlands province lasted for 3 days, killing 7 elephants and several donkeys and domesticated animals. Fire breaks allow for effective demarcation of lands and timely fire management before the entire community is affected.

Fire then and now (47.01)

Ntando observes that fire used for indoor purposes like cooking or cultural ceremonies continues, but fire outside the home or in agriculture is restricted, especially during Zimbabwe’s fire season from 31st July to 31st October. He envisions consulting with Indigenous communities on fire management so that the fire can continue to play a central role in their culture.

The future of fire (55.06)

Satellite technology and remote sensing can be helpful in presenting a graphical summary of the success of fire management plans and inform further refinements to the plan.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

Cultural Safety with Joe Gilchrist and Natasha Caverley

11 juli 2022 | min

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural empowerment and environmental integrity

Cultural Safety with Joe Gilchrist and Natasha Caverley

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Joe Gilchrist and Natasha Caverley talk about how Indigenous and Western ways of knowing can come together to bring cultural burning back on the land a study exploring cultural safety of Indigenous wildland firefighters in Canada.

Resources

Natasha Caverley of Turtle Island Consulting

Giving Voice to Cultural Safety of Indigenous Wildland Firefighters in Canada

Revitalizing Cultural Burning

Sponsors

Support from:

Russell Myers Ross’ Story

Takeaways

Sparking passion (04.16)

Joe began firefighting at age 15 and became a squad boss in 1991 in Merritt. He narrates the travels and training they did, and how his experience firefighting and cultural burning for plant health helped him.

Glowing embers (11.55)

Natasha is the President of Turtle Island Consulting and was part of a specialized team funded by the BC Ministry of Forests to work with First Nations that were dealing with the mountain pine beetle infestation.

Two-eyed seeing approach (18.28)

Joe outlines the wages and structure of the crews involved in firefighting, as well as the demanding schedules of firefighters. Natasha’s work has been to formally capture such anecdotes from a national perspective.

Cultural safety (31.37)

Joe wants to share his experience and lessons learned as a firefighter but has always been a doer more than a talker. Natasha realized that Indigenous peoples do not feel safe accessing quality services in wildland firefighting as well.

Systemic racism (41.06)

Joe looks back at the systemic racism he faced as a firefighter and recounts instances when the Indigenous firefighters were tested through difficult tasks and their firefighting style was mocked.

The best way to work is to have fun (50.20)

Joe was diagnosed with PTSD in 1994 from the exhaustion of always having to be available or on standby as a firefighter. He informs that PTSD can affect anyone, can be hard to fight on one’s own, and warrants professional help, as difficult as it is to ask for.

Wildland firefighting as a career choice (01.05.05)

Joe believes knowledge of the land, its inhabitants, the wind patterns on the land, and the way fire burns through it are important requirements to be a firefighter. He is working with some universities to add an Indigenous perspective to the learning.

Cultural burning needs to come back (1.14.30)

Natasha is working with Amy in Saskatchewan to curate promising practices to bring fire back on the land by interviewing Elders and fire-keepers. Joe is inspired to continue making connections with knowledge keepers and Elders and share his knowledge in firefighting with others.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

Fire and Carbon with Russell Myers Ross and William Nikolakis

27 juni 2022 | min

Episode highlight

In this episode, Russell Myers Ross and William Nikolakis speak about the work of the Gathering Voices Society on revitalizing traditional fire management in Tsilhqot’in Territory and the potential around carbon offsets.

Resources

William Nikolakis’ Profile

Gathering Voices Society

The North Australian Indigenous Land and Sea Management Alliance Ltd (NAILSMA)

Intact Foundation

Wildfire governance in a changing world: Insights for policy learning and policy transfer

Goal setting and Indigenous fire management: a holistic perspective

Sponsors

Support from:

Tribal-Traditional Ecological Knowledge

Takeaways

Valuing Indigenous knowledge and experience (7.59)

Will created the Gathering Voices Society to support “a stewardship model, where First Nations manage the land in ways that are consistent with their values for their own goals and their own ways”.

Practical action (10.54)

Will shares that their goal is to support the community by employing people for the fire programs, and they are guided by their motto to learn by doing. Cultural burning can involve everyone in the community, not just firefighters, to begin seeing fire as a friend.

Learning by doing (14.58)

Will met Russ at a governance conference in 2015. They hosted Victor Steffensen in 2018 for knowledge exchange on different ways of practising cultural burning which led to them doing their first spring burn in 2019.

Balancing benefits, mitigating effects (25.07)

Even though many people hold misconceptions about cultural burning, Russ knows that the benefits will be visible in due time, and healthy land can be enjoyed by all. The community has been excited about reconnecting to the land and the energy is infectious.

2017 wildfires (33.52)

The Gathering Voices Society has secured funding to finance the fire stewardship in Russ’ community. Russ speaks about the aftermath of the 2017 wildfires and the hope for development and education in this space ever since.

Changing the world, one fire at a time (42.37)

Will and Russ discuss the different tools used in cultural burning. Other communities are looking to him for inspiration on land management today. Will is working towards compiling scientific evidence of the validity and importance of this practice.

Carbon (48.56)

Will talks about working with NAILSMA, where they witnessed the growth of well-documented formal Indigenous fire programs that are groundbreaking in understanding the effect of fire across the landscape.

Passing on the torch (54.46)

Russ states that piloting the program in the community was important to measure practicality and interest, and they are now planning on how it can be expanded. He envisions this work to be intergenerational, keeping the community immersed in the knowledge.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

Cultural Fire Ceremony with Ron Goode

20 juni 2022 | min

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural empowerment and environmental integrity

Episode highlight

In this episode, Ron W. Goode talks about his journey stewarding the land using fire and the importance of ceremony.

Resources

Ron Goode’s Profile

Sponsors

Support from:

Quotes

46.26 - 46.29: “Your voice is not carrying but you keep singing”.

Takeaways

Living on the land (4.37)

Ron is the Tribal Chairman of the North Fork Mono Tribe. He describes how his grandparents were born before the land was colonized, and his grandmother lived just off the land beyond the age of 100.

Understanding nature (7.24)

Ron points out that there are 10,000 meadows in the Sierra Nevada mountain ranges in California, where wild animals and humans coexist. They also have natural medicines they prepare and trade.

Tending the garden (16.12)

Ron laments that mega-fires have increased the canopy of the forest so much that rain does not reach the roots of trees, and what does hit the floor, runs off. Thinning the forest thus plays an important part in keeping the forest healthy.

The right way to do a cultural burn (23.34)

Ron is mindful to burn using the right techniques, in the right area and during the right season. A cultural burn will not burn the root system, but a wildfire does.

Cultural resources are the brush (31.37)

When Ron does a burn, he has a vision of what the landscape will look like a few years from now, and what harvest will be ready.

“We don’t do anything that is not spiritual first” (40.23)

Working on the landscape means making an offering to Mother Earth and all its inhabitants. Ron shares that when an offering is made from the spirit, all of nature responds well to it.

Fire is ceremonial (49.43)

Ron explains that cultural fire is called ceremonial fire because it begins with a prayer or song. They have been successfully burning on the land with no real accidents.

Consultation is the way forward (56.21)

The California government has been charged with creating a strategic plan for natural resources and is hiring a tribal liaison for each tribe. However, consultation becomes complicated with the hiring of non-tribal liaisons who do not have a connection to the tribe.

“I’m burning for the sustainability of our culture” (1.00.39)

Ron burns with the intention to sustain his culture first and then to contain wildfires and improve biodiversity.

Take care of your backyard (1.10.20)

Ron shares his experiences with Aboriginal leaders in Australia, exchanging knowledge and cultural guidance.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

Cultural Fire Is Back with Bhiamie Williamson

13 juni 2022 | min

Hosted by Amy Cardinal Christianson, and Matthew Kristoff. Amy is a Métis woman from Treaty 8 territory, currently living in Treaty 6, and a research scientist with the Canadian Forest Service, Natural Resources Canada. Matthew grew up in Treaty 8 territory and now lives in Treaty 6. He is a forester in the province of Alberta, Canada and the creator of YourForest Podcast.

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Bhiamie Williamson discusses the connection of Indigenous peoples to the land, and how cultural burning is a way to preserve the environment and cultural heritage.

Resources

Strength from perpetual grief: how Aboriginal people experience the bushfire crisis

Royal Commission into National Natural Disaster Arrangements

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

● California Indian Water Commission

● Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

12.00 - 12.10: “There is so much trauma in our communities, people have never had the opportunity, I feel, to kind of pick themselves up and dust themselves off from colonization.”

Takeaways

Fire is a shared resource (5.58)

As an Aboriginal child growing up in Australia surrounded by his culture, Bhiamie “always had a love for country”. He studied environmental and political sciences at university, and discovered the benefits of cultural burning.

Land is at the center of healing (11.26)

Bhiamie points out that fire plays an important role in Indigenous healing practices. Cultural burning can also prevent wildfires, thus preventing the trauma of losing ancestral lands.

Sharing the load (19.04)

Bhiamie has written an article that has inspired governments and agencies to provide trauma-informed support to Aboriginal peoples after natural disasters.

The land is a living museum (24.42)

Bhiamie informs that Aboriginal peoples have connections to land, and the animals, trees, stones, and petroglyphs are all part of the cultural heritage.

“The best form of protecting is prevention” (30.22)

Bhiamie recommends engaging Indigenous peoples in emergency management and prevention conversations which can help in high-pressure conditions.

“Think ahead and be happy to be unsettled” (38.37)

Bhiamie comments on the impacts of colonization and “centuries of oppression”, and the need to overturn it.

True reconciliation (46.59)

Bhiamie expresses his preference to have Indigenous peoples design their own emergency management programs across different lands in Australia.

Children of the future (59.19)

A majority of the Aboriginal population is young, which brings up the need to provide educational and developmental support along with family and social support.

“It’s just not good enough to ignore us anymore” (1.02.37)

Bhiamie observes that even when Indigenous peoples are invited to share their opinion, they are marginalized, with tokenized opportunities that contain the impact they can have.

Indigenizing masculinity (1.08.41)

Bhiamie’s Ph.D. research is on Indigenous men and masculinity, exploring masculinity from an Indigenous perspective.

“You can call that decolonization, I just call that common sense” (1.14.13)

In Bhiamie’s opinion, the first step to decolonization is to employ Indigenous peoples in senior roles. Land justice and repossession by Indigenous peoples, as well as cultural burning to manage climate change, are the next steps.

You can get in touch with the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

Season 2 Teaser and How To

2 maj 2022 | min

We're Back - Good Fire Season 2 Teaser

2 december 2021 | min

Cultural Fire in Brazil and Venezuela with Jay Mistry

12 november 2019 | min

The final episode of the Good Fire Podcast is an incredible conversation that helps to try and summarize some of the ideas we have discussed over the last 10 episodes. Jay Mistry has been working with and doing research in South America with Indigenous peoples for years, and she has a great perspective on many of the issues we have discussed. We talked about the role of cultural fire in Brazil and Venezuela, indigenous lead fire programs, and the challenges with colonial governments and how we can start to shift the conversation. Thank you for listening, we hope to bring you more episodes in the future.

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Jay Mistry talks about cultural fire in Brazil and Venezuela, Indigenous-led fire programs, and the challenges with colonial governments.

Resources

Jay Mistry: https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/portal/en/persons/jay-mistry(21cb3408-1419-4ec2-9b70-bcf46c0bfac4).html

From fire suppression to fire management: advances and resistances to changes in fire policy in the savannas of Brazil and Venezuela: https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/portal/files/28888954/Geographical_Journal_2017_Author_Final_Version.pdf

Sharing Multiple Perspectives on Burning: Towards a Participatory and Intercultural Fire Management Policy in Venezuela, Brazil, and Guyana: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/334264499_Sharing_Multiple_Perspectives_on_Burning_Towards_a_Participatory_and_Intercultural_Fire_Management_Policy_in_Venezuela_Brazil_and_Guyana

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Quotes

“16.26 - 16.38: “There was a lot of evidence being gathered around the world about how Indigenous practices, not just fire management, but other types of Indigenous practices, are actually sustaining biodiversity and reducing greenhouse gases.”

30.58 - 31.07: “Fire is not just a tool but it’s actually part of people’s culture as well and it’s actually quite linked into every… bit of their culture.”

Takeaways

Fire used differently in different ecosystems (01.27)

Jay is a professor of environmental geography in the Department of Geography at the Royal Holloway University of London, UK. She shares her parental lineage and her academic and professional journey which brought her to Brazil. Though she had set out to study the effects of fire on vegetation, her research led her to engage with the Indigenous peoples who conducted cultural burning, and their practices in the savannas.

Changing the fire paradigm (8.48)

Jay recalls that due to the strong focus on firefighting and fire prevention, Indigenous burning in Brazil was not well-received in the 90s, and in some cases, it still isn’t. She points out that government agencies are “realizing they can’t fight fires anymore”, and are warming up to the idea of active fire management. She claims that the agribusiness lobby is villainizing Indigenous burning as degrading the land. Wildfires seldom reach urban centres in Brazil but are feared.

Making the case for Indigenous fire management (14.10)

Jay has been researching the savannas on the border of Brazil and Venezuela with Bibiana Bilbao of Simón Bolívar University in Venezuela. Bibiana has conducted experiments to show how Indigenous fire management practices reduce fuel loads. They have put together a literature review of Indigenous practices of Brazil, Venezuela and Guyana and have organized discussion groups and trust workshops for Indigenous peoples, government and academics.

Creating a safe space (20.33)

Jay highlights that the key to success in their workshops was that the Indigenous peoples trust them due to their long-term relationship. They also received feedback that it helped the Indigenous groups to have facilitators they knew. She shares how her workshops have also done well due to their long duration, having champions for Indigenous fire management in the firefighting groups and knowledge exchange between firefighters and Indigenous peoples.

The importance of Indigenous fire management in preventing climate change (26.23)

Jay speaks about a workshop held in Venezuela which brought Indigenous leaders to look at how Indigenous fire management could inform climate change mitigation policies. Cultural burning prevents large, catastrophic, high-intensity fires that emit greenhouse gases, thereby reducing the carbon footprint. Climate change has caused longer droughts, which affects how burning is done. Cultural burning is part of Indigenous culture and is done year-round.

Learning from Indigenous knowledge (35.07)

Jay cites a UN report that states that we must learn from Indigenous peoples’ sustainable practices, which can prevent the mass extinction of biodiversity. However, she warns against the colonization of Indigenous knowledge, and for knowledge sharing to be done by the Indigenous, and to their benefit. She laments that government agencies resist handing over power to any other entity.

Community and solutions (40.24)

Jay suggests adopting a positive and inquisitive approach in learning from local people how they practise conservation and natural resource management instead of approaching them looking to find gaps in their practices. She explains the different land ownership and management agreements in the different countries of South America, and how they compare to those in Africa.

Paving the way forward with reconciliation (45.25)

Jay and her colleagues have received a grant to create an international Centre for Wildfires, Environment and Society to research global wildfires. Her role will involve integrating Indigenous and local community fire management practices with scientific data to inform climate modules. She believes now is a good time to “show how important Indigenous fire management and fire knowledge is”.

Our land, our rights (49.48)

Jay notes that since Indigenous knowledge is tied to the land, land tenure and land rights become important considerations. Ensuring Indigenous peoples have rights to their land will lead to the application of their practices and management there, which will maintain biodiversity and reduce greenhouse gases. She reveals that governments have been trying to repeal some rights in order to access the resources on Indigenous lands.

Collective connectedness (54.46)

Jay has observed that Indigenous peoples “see themselves completely connected” with the physical and spiritual ecosystems within nature. This connection is as a collective, considering their ancestors and future generations. She believes that western society has lost these values, and fails to see how our actions in the present can affect someone else down the line. By sharing positive Indigenous stories and knowledge, we can all learn these values.

You can get in touch with the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

Aboriginal Women and Caring for Country in NSW, Australia with Vanessa Cavanagh

4 november 2019 | min

I think when most people imagine a firefighter they picture a man. Women, it would seem, are still trying to shake the stigma of historical gender roles. Across the colonized world these gender roles have created a mold through which we all perceive and think about our world. Vanessa is trying to break that mold. Through her own life experiences climbing the ladder of the western fire model, as well as through her research, Vanessa has great perspective and insight into the importance of women in cultural fire.

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Vanessa Cavanagh shares her journey as an Aboriginal woman in cultural burning and firefighting.

Resources

Vanessa Cavanagh: https://scholars.uow.edu.au/display/vanessa_cavanagh

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Quotes

36.09 - 36.25: “I am in an identified role. I've got the capacity now to compete on merit with non-Indigenous people in these other roles, so I want to go for those jobs and open up the door behind me for the next Aboriginal person to come into that identified role that I'll be leaving.”

1.01.23 - 1.01.32: “We never know all the answers, it’s always just an ongoing experience and … that’s the work and the process where we're trying to change as we go along.”

Takeaways

Reconciliation (1.45)

Vanessa is an Aboriginal woman completing her Ph.D. at the School of Geography and Sustainable Communities, University of Wollongong, and is grateful to the communities whose land she works on. She is passionate about maintaining her mother tongue from the Bundjalung country in New South Wales. She discusses how land acknowledgements and other protocols and processes are being reinstated as a way to respect ancestors and maintain cultural identity.

On the shoulders of other women (5.55)

Vanessa believes that in traditional times, there would have been no separation in the role of men and women in caring for the land since there was “no distinction between humans on the landscape and the landscape itself”. This would have included cultural burning, harvesting and passing on knowledge for future generations. She shares her career journey, and how fire forms a part of the belief systems that were founded on a relationship with the land.

The role of women in cultural burning (13.47)

Vanessa acknowledges that gender roles do come into effect at work, and encourages more space for Aboriginal women in her cultural burning research. She recalls how she was inspired to create a women’s sharing circle after attending the National Indigenous Fire Forum, which included women from all backgrounds. Speaking to women this way and in workshops is showing her that Aboriginal women have always played an important role in cultural burning.

The social dynamics of gender (22.07)

In Vanessa’s experience, “Indigenous men working in cultural burning have always promoted the position of Aboriginal women’s roles in cultural burning”. She has felt encouraged in her work as a field officer but also wants to maintain the cultural protocols that dictate the areas that are inappropriate for women to be involved in.

Cultural change (28.45)

Vanessa points out how people are more open to learning from Aboriginal knowledge and land management practices today. Agencies have new Aboriginal positions to help facilitate engagement with Aboriginal communities. She acknowledges the power imbalance due to colonization with settlers deciding societal structures. She views her role as “infiltrating and learning it and unpacking it and dismantling it and then rebuilding it in a way that is more inclusive of Indigenous world views”.

Change is uncomfortable (31.57)

Vanessa states that since social structures promote the privilege of one group, that group becomes resistant to change. It takes energy and political effort to change the dominant narrative. She recounts how the Aboriginal Social Justice movement in Australia in the 80s and 90s has brought about a minimum benchmark of 3% reservation of Aboriginal Employees in government agencies to increase cultural diversity at the workplace.

Celebration of learned individual success (38.59)

Vanessa considers maintaining her connection with the community as one of the reasons people find her inspiring. She narrates how the youth today are establishing their resistance to social injustice by refusing participation in areas that are not inclusive of Aboriginal Peoples. When teaching primary school teachers about Indigenous geography, she helps them identify and dismantle their ignorance and biases, empowering them to change the narrative for kids.

Lifelong learning and teaching (46.01)

In her workshops, Vanessa finds that people are excited and eager to learn about Aboriginal fire when given the opportunity to engage with it. She recognizes that she is privileged to be in the position to teach and share knowledge to non-Indigenous people and contradict their biases, as she may be the first of the 3.3% Aboriginal people in Australia they would have met. However, she shies away from the term expert and thinks of herself as a lifelong learner.

Three-pronged approach (52.04)

Vanessa outlines the 3 questions she is seeking to address in her Ph.D. within an Indigenous methodological approach: 1) How do Aboriginal women engage in cultural burning in New South Wales? 2) How do Aboriginal women want their knowledge and narratives of cultural burning to be presented and shared? 3) Are there barriers or challenges to the full participation of Aboriginal women in cultural burning that can be addressed through policy implementation or development? If yes, how can those be developed to help assist more participation?

Knowledge sharing opportunity (55.17)

Vanessa has developed a huge network through her work in the national parks’ annual meetings of Aboriginal staffers and had women approaching her about burning when she shared her Ph.D. topic. She has been balancing organic observations, interactions and processes with her research methodology to allow for Aboriginal participants to have a say in her process too, to ensure the narrative is a correct interpretation of the stories that inform her research.

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected]m.

Fire Ecology and Indigenous Knowledge with Frank Lake

28 oktober 2019 | min

Wildfire management has long been the domain of colonial governments. Despite a rich history of living with, managing, and using fire as a tool since time immemorial, Indigenous people were not permitted to practice cultural fire and their knowledge was largely ignored. As a result, total fire suppression became the prominent policy. With the most active force of natural succession abruptly halted, Indigenous communities suffered as the land changed. Today, western society has recognized the ecological problem a lack of fire has created, however, the cultural impact has been largely ignored. Frank Lake has spent a great deal of time contemplating the role of Indigenous people in fire management, and he has some great insight into how we can begin to change fire management for the benefit of all people.

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Frank Lake talks about how fire management should be done in consultation with Indigenous peoples and how it can benefit the land and the community.

Resources

Frank Lake: https://www.fs.fed.us/psw/programs/ff/staff/flake/

Maintaining the Mosaic: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/545a90ede4b026480c02c5c7/t/55256829e4b0788926c03f36/1428514857584/KimmererLake.pdf

Returning Fire to the Land: https://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/lake/psw_2017_lake001.pdf

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Quotes

12.44 - 12.59: “[There is] the myth of the pristine wilderness and that this ecological diversity was just inherently there when really a lot of our forests and our fire-prone ecosystems, where there are Indigenous peoples, are the legacy of that complex Indigenous fire stewardship.”

Takeaways

Frank finding fire (1.19)

Frank has been a research ecologist with the USDA Forest Service for 18 years now. His mixed Native American and white background influences and informs his work with Indigenous and Tribal Peoples in California. Prior to this, he worked in fisheries habitats and credits Dr. Robin Kimmerer and the paper they wrote together with his understanding of and interest in fire and its ecological aspects. His work has since involved researching and raising awareness of fire.

Fire-dependent culture (7.22)

Frank has maintained his wildland firefighter qualifications and has been an important liaison between stakeholders in fire management. He combines his cultural knowledge with his academic training to bring a more effective understanding and awareness of benefits, issues and policies and identify the culturally significant resources at risk. He speaks of how subsistence activities, food, basketry and ceremonies are linked with fire.

Indigenous fire sovereignty (12.42)

Frank points out how intentional burning has facilitated and maintained the biodiversity of landscapes. He contemplates how Indigenous peoples can have an equal voice to share Indigenous knowledge as a remedy to the vulnerabilities or stressors of environmental processes and work as partners with the government. He claims the “alignment of intersection between people and place” will occur when fire is acknowledged as medicine for the land.

Consultation in cultural burning (17.53)

Frank highlights the need for cross-sectional work and the emphasis on cultural resources. Fire, as a cultural practice transcends land ownership boundaries, and work must be done in varying degrees to reinstate cultural fire practices to ensure that wildfire is not threatening life and property in the community. Fire management agreements can mandate the consultation and coordination of Indigenous and Tribal peoples in firefighting and controlled burning.

Stakeholder management (21.07)

Frank underscores the importance of Indigenous and Tribal peoples having a direct relationship with the government to provide consultation in partnership, respecting the value of the traditional knowledge being shared. He acknowledges that different stakeholders have different socioeconomic and ethnic interests and it is important to learn how to live with fire and manage resources together.

Fire is medicine (25.29)

Frank deliberates the interpretations of smoke, and how smoke positively impacts water temperatures and therefore culturally important aquatic species. His research has shown how cultural burning reduces evaporation, increases spring flow and rejuvenates materials for habitats. He discusses the intersection of technology and Indigenous knowledge in his work.

Corrective or maintenance fire (32.50)

Frank explains that in the ecosystems where fire has been suppressed, the buildup of fuels along with changing climatic conditions has caused larger and more intense fires. He speaks about corrective fires in Canada and Australia addressing the absence of cultural burning using maps to show the difference Indigenous fire stewardship can make on different landscapes, including promoting fire-adapted drought-tolerant species.

Fire-adapted communities (40.49)

“Having Indigenous people share the importance of fire increases our public’s awareness”, Frank says. This will also help change people’s perspective of burning and fire from an illegal, negative consequence to an essential resource to our economies, livelihoods, culture, community and ecosystem services. He shares that there is a spectrum of people ranging from those who think fire is essential, to those who are concerned with the health effects of smoke.

Consultation, communication, and coordination (48.30)

Frank has been associated with the National Advanced Fire & Resource Institute in Tucson, through which he has been able to impact a wide range of stakeholders, and his local work helps share that knowledge. He discusses the Tribes he works with and the Tribal governments through National Forest Agreements, who appoint a representative to work with the management team in a wildfire.

The agroforestry perspective (55.03)

Frank outlines how active fire management agreements facilitate joint prescribed burns between agencies, organizations and Tribes using the example of oak in California. A legacy of Indigenous fire stewardship protects values around food security, forest functionality, resilience and diversity, along with meeting the needs of the community, including recreation and self-sufficiency of resources.

Curating knowledge (59.03)

Frank believes that he has a responsibility to honour the knowledge that his Elders have gifted him with time and care, which includes thought around bringing fire back onto the landscape. He uses forest thinning on his own property as an example and inspiration to other families to promote cultural burning. He speaks about other avenues to share the wealth of Indigenous knowledge from the Elders to the youth of today.

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected]m.

Interior Fire Keepers Workshop in Merritt BC, Canada: Second live recording with Pierre Kruger

21 oktober 2019 | min

More Fire Stories from Fire Keeper Pierre Kruger. These live recordings are a great way to try and understand some indigenous perspectives when it comes to the role of fire in our natural world. This episode we get to hear a full detailed account of a cultural burn that was done at the workshop. Pierre compares what was done on that burn with what he would normally do.

Episode highlight

In this episode, Pierre Krueger, a traditional fire-keeper and Penticton Indian Band Elder, debriefs about a cultural burn that was done at the workshop.

Resources

An Indigenous burning story featuring Pierre Krueger: https://thenib.com/prescribed-burn-forest-fires/?fbclid=IwAR1eAANy5RBrRSdqBd-gojxUefSjMNbDsgmmL2UVMP5cVFGT19LlYeJ4IfA

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Quotes

13.58 - 14.15: “We have a responsibility. If someone knew what I know or any of my family knows, they could be billionaires within 2 years because they’d exploit our knowledge.”

Takeaways

Burn debrief (1.55)

Pierre brought his own tools for the cultural burn but says that he would have preferred to wait a few days because it was not dry enough to burn. Every year is different due to the seasons and that affects the window of burning available. He normally tests the grass and does a clean burn.

“Everyone gets a chance at everything” (3.48)

Pierre’s mother looked at burning as an act of togetherness and encouraged everyone to participate to the best of their ability. Burning is also an act of communication, as animals would be forewarned to clear the areas to be burned.

Safety is the fire-keeper’s responsibility (7.47)

Pierre believes firefighters have a lot to learn from his family’s way of fire-keeping since their practice has never seen a fire go astray. He shares instances of using fire to regulate the cultivation, and how food made him and his brother strong enough to run 115 miles a day!

Land and water (13.19)

Pierre wants to teach cultural burning to the youth and other people who care for Mother Earth, to help clean the waterways. His people know how to spot the streams which are drinkable, and they consider it their responsibility to inform others if they find a bad stream to avoid.

Weather whisperers (17.35)

Pierre shares how his family has the ability to control the weather and sees great possibility in others learning this art to make a difference to the environment. He narrates an incident when his mother created a 100-foot circle of protection around them to keep the rain away.

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected]m.

Fire and Water in California, USA with Don Hankins

15 oktober 2019 | min

Cultural burning is important for many reasons, from berry production to habitat creation it promotes sustainable ecosystems and communities. Water is one giant part of that equation. What is the connection between fire and water? How can burning more or less often, higher or lower intensities, affect water quality and fish habitat? Don Hankins has studied these questions and has answers for us.

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Don Hankins, President of the California Indian Water Commission, talks about the connection between fire and water and its impacts on creating sustainable ecosystems and communities.

Resources

California Indian Water Commission: https://ciwcwater.org/

Fires as Agents of Biodiversity: https://www.sierraforestlegacy.org/Resources/Conservation/FireForestEcology/FireScienceResearch/FireEcology/FireEcology-Martin91.pdf

Ecological grief as a mental health response to climate change-related loss: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-018-0092-2

Sponsors

Support from:

Quotes

20.03 - 20.14: “In Indigenous ways of thinking, we’re not just thinking about ourselves; we’re connecting to our ancestors and we are connecting down to generations unborn.”

48.58 - 49.02: “Just because you give an… Indigenous person a drip torch, doesn’t make it a cultural burn.”

58.42 - 59.00: “If you want to create or achieve reconciliation, this is one way to do it… go out and recognize the rights of Indigenous people to burn. But not only that… reconcile that through fire, reconcile it within the landscape, with people, together.”

Takeaways

Time-tested Indigenous knowledge (01.22)

Don is Plains Miwok from the Delta area of east San Francisco, and a traditional fire practitioner. He is a Professor of Geography and Planning at California State University Chico. He has been involved in fire restoration and research for more than 20 years, informed by his understanding of community needs. Don narrates the story of how he came to be involved with the restoration of cultural burning, which he regards as the culmination of the knowledge he has gained from his Elders and his academic background.

Relationship with the land helps biodiversity (06.33)

Don speaks about how they have been bringing local tribes to re-engage with fire and regenerate interest by creating a learning lab. Bringing fire back in different intensities and frequencies is also facilitating biodiversity, continuity of fuel and reduction of invasive species. The diversity of land ownership in California makes it challenging to study fire behaviour in confined landscapes, Don shares.

Reliving the fire story (14.18)

Don laments that while it is recognized that fire must be a part of the landscape, agencies are reluctant to understand how Indigenous peoples can contribute to that. Many laws passed by the government go against laws of nature, he says. He highlights the importance of the fire stories he was taught, since they teach about tools to start and tend a fire and Indigenous fire laws, and disobeying them has severe consequences.

Safety first (19.35)

Don has been taught that fire-keeping is an obligation handed down to Indigenous peoples at the time of creation, “to care for and tend to our landscape”, including the health, safety and wellbeing of the non-Indigenous people that inhabit it now. He views his duty as a fire-keeper as considerate of all the assets at risk in a burn, and that his deep connection with the landscape qualifies him to conduct the burn while keeping everything and everyone safe.

“Scale of fire changes with the relationship to water” (22.51)

“Within Indigenous knowledge systems, there is an inherent relationship between water and fire”, Don states. An important aspect of his knowledge system is the ability of a burn to bring rain. He explains how burning changes the water availability of a landscape, thus positively impacting the species diversity and cultural protection, and the research he is doing in this regard.

Risk mitigation (31.47)

Don points out that the context of the knowledge base, the seasons chosen for burning, the objectives of a burn and fire laws distinguish Indigenous burning from agency burning. The displacement of Indigenous peoples from their landscapes compelled them to learn the ways of burning of the new areas from those locals. “If you think about the landscape and you know you are working within that law of the land”, you can mitigate risks, Don observes.

Inter-generational ecological grief (35.48)

Don describes the ecological grief that countless generations of Indigenous peoples experience, in the loss of their story places, in the urbanization of traditional homelands or when they are deforested for agriculture, in climate change, and in losing familiarity with the environment and its members. He recounts instances where people he knew grieve the loss of trees of cultural significance.

This land is our land (43.12)

Don outlines positive steps that are being taken - funding for fire has been increasing in an orderly fashion, and congressional acts are matching the Indigenous laws that recognize the sovereignty of tribes beyond their reserve lands to encompass ancestral territories. Don believes that agencies have a responsibility to uphold Indigenous peoples’ rights to steward their lands, and shares how tribes are reclaiming their rights to the land.

“For agencies, this is a job. For us, it’s our livelihoods” (45.47)

Don shares that caring for the land is a cultural obligation for Indigenous peoples. “It’s a livelihood for us and we are connected to it and we can’t get away from it unless we walk away from our culture and who we are”, he says. He is of the opinion that any funding should first be designated to the Indigenous peoples, who can then decide the allocation of funds. Following Indigenous laws is important to live sustainably on the land, he believes.

“There is a therapeutic aspect of burning” (47.27)

Don talks about the difficulties in Indigenous peoples having to adhere to agency rules in burning. A cultural burn involves knowing one’s landscape, its risks, its members, and the objective of the burn. As a fire/burn boss, Don says his knowledge is not acknowledged by agencies. When he takes any group of people to burn, he shares his knowledge of techniques and tools so they overcome their fear of fire and learn the healing powers of fire in ceremony.

Creating a universal cultural fire (59.15)

Don discusses how Indigenous groups, like in Australia, are working towards rekindling fire practice by having Indigenous peoples train others on fire knowledge. He believes in the power of Indigenous peoples developing their own standards and qualifications for fire practice that champion Indigenous sovereignty and create a culture of safety training and mindsets. He disagrees with the standard firefighter training which views fire as the enemy.

“It’s not dangerous when you’ve been doing it for 60000 years” (1.03.48)

Don has completed the conventional wildland firefighter training as well as numerous prescribed fire workshops, across continents and habitats. He is also a certified burn boss. He recalls instances that delineate the difference between the way Indigenous peoples perceive fire and how agencies look at it. His hope is to pass on the responsibilities of cultural burning to the next generation.

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected]m.

Firesticks Alliance in Australia with Oliver Costello

1 oktober 2019 | min

For generations, since colonization, authority over the land and how to manage it has been held firmly by colonial governments, despite that land being sustainably managed for thousands of years prior to European contact by Indigenous peoples. Firesticks is an organization that aims to change the system and create more opportunities for Indigenous lead fire management. A more inclusive management system serves multiple purposes, benefiting all walks of life from indigenous to non-Indigenous peoples, as well as a more sustainable landscape.

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural empowerment and environmental integrity

Firesticks Alliance in Australia with Oliver Costello

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Oliver Costello talks about Firesticks, an Indigenous-led network that aims to re-invigorate the use of cultural burning by facilitating cultural learning pathways to fire and land management.

Resources

Firesticks: https://www.firesticks.org.au/about/

Sponsors

Support from:

Quotes

31.10 - 31.20: “You develop all these safety mechanisms for risk management, and risk management is important. Our people had risk management too - it was called knowledge and they used it”.

Takeaways

Cultural burning (01.24)

Oliver is a Bundjalung man from Northern New South Wales on the east coast of Australia. He sits on the board of Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation, which began as a way to bring the community together using fire and building recognition around cultural fire management. Colonization has caused cultural fire practices to decline or become misappropriated. However, the Land Rights Act is “giving community country back again”.

Right fire (06.00)

Oliver speaks about how Aboriginal fire knowledge was lost due to colonization, but that assets and values can be used to create possibilities for the future. He thinks of fire as a tool to understand what the land teaches and how to support the relationship with the land. While missions and reserves restricted Aboriginal practices, it is now important to learn the laws and local knowledge around burning to support the cultural framework.

Teaching the right way to burn (12.38)

Oliver talks about the reach of Firesticks, with fire workshops being conducted in different parts of Australia. This helps to engage agencies to understand regulation and policies and engage with cultural burning. The response and outcomes have mostly been positive. He discusses the legislation, restrictions and exemptions around cultural burning permits and the impacts of not knowing how to burn correctly.

Build confidence and relationships (23.09)

Oliver acknowledges that there is some tension between Aboriginal communities and wildfire management agencies. Indigenous community mentorship and recognition of Indigenous knowledge through the cultural connection to the land are the pillars of the approach Firesticks uses to build relationships with communities and identify the champions of cultural burning. Navigating aboriginal authority and responsibility, though complex, is important to maintain cultural fire.

Cultural Learning Pathways (29.01)

Oliver shares how ancestral knowledge has been lost over the years, but that there is an opportunity for Aboriginal youth to lead the way. Firesticks aims to work with people who are connected with their ancestors and are present and aware of ways to burn to manage risks. He envisions spaces where Elders teach the youth about making fire, fire law, cultural law and ancestral law so they can continue the practice of cultural burning.

Healthy country, healthy people (38.00)

Oliver emphasizes the relationship of people to the land - the more you engage with the land, the more you are rewarded - physically, mentally, spiritually, and culturally. Sharing fire knowledge can contribute to your self-esteem and positive regard, as well as bring fulfilling new experiences with different communities that help you understand your connections to other people and their ancestors, enabling regenerative sustainable relationships with the land.

“You don’t take more than you give” (42.20)

Oliver urges listeners to tune into the land to do what is healthy for the land as well as for the people. He believes mismanagement of land is killing the land, and that resources are finite. He laments the loss of the knowledge of our reciprocal relationships with the land, an aspect critical to fire practice. He shares the unique relationships some communities have with certain species of flora and fauna.

Fire teaches us patience and presence (51.56)

Oliver feels inspired meeting people through the increasing number of fire workshops, learning about the different languages and traditions of the other nations. He takes refuge in the teachings of his culture, interpreting natural phenomena through the lens of his connections with this land and ancestors. He is excited about the community mentorship aspect of fire workshops which will unlock the potential of this work in the future.

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected]m.

Interior Fire Keepers Workshop in Merritt BC, Canada with Pierre Kruger

23 september 2019 | min

Indigenous people have a rich history of working with and understanding fire. Pierre Kruger remembers a time when burning was common and has countless stories describing the lessons learned. This is the first of three Fire-Keeper stories we will release during the course of this podcast series. These stories consist of traditional knowledge and describe an understanding of fire that may be different from what some have come to understand.

In this podcast, Pierre Krueger remembers a time when burning was common and has countless stories describing the lessons learned.

Resources

An Indigenous burning story featuring Pierre Krueger: https://thenib.com/prescribed-burn-forest-fires/?fbclid=IwAR1eAANy5RBrRSdqBd-gojxUefSjMNbDsgmmL2UVMP5cVFGT19LlYeJ4IfA

Sponsors

Support from:

Quotes

3.19 - 3.24: “Fire is like a snowflake; there ain’t no two fires the same.”

Takeaways

Fire safety (02.11)

Pierre Krueger’s family members have been fire-keepers for over 10,000 years. He narrates the story from the 60s when Pierre and his uncle surveyed the land during a wildfire to ensure safety and saved the lives of 70 to 100 settler firefighters by cutting down the trees that could have spread the fire.

The journey of a fire-keeper (8.04)

Pierre shares that the first lesson in Indigenous burning is how to light a fire with what is available in the short window for burning. Safety is the most important consideration in burning because losing one’s life from burning has impacts on reincarnation, he says. He highlights that fire-keepers are also responsible for taking care of the garden (mountains, valleys and water bodies).

Understanding fire (10.39)

Pierre recalls that in the 60s to the 80s, Indigenous peoples “were the best firefighters around”. They were dropped from moving helicopters onto steep hills since they were trained, experienced and knowledgeable in what needed to be done to control a wildfire. He explains the many reasons that fires are created - real estate, road development, clear-cutting - and how cleaning up after a fire is important.

“We don't have a fear of fire” (13.17)

A few years ago, Pierre and his son took a forest fire crew out to the forest and lit the backfire at their request. When the wind came in, Pierre warned the crew not to go ahead, but they didn’t listen and it led to casualties on the crew. Good firefighting “takes time and common sense”, he states. He has invited the Penticton firefighting unit to learn how to understand fires from the experience of the Indigenous peoples so that they don’t fear fire.

Fire-keeping in his blood (16.56)

Pierre was taught how to be a fire-keeper from childhood, with the ability to call on the weather being an important part of the teachings. He laments that the practice is slowly being lost because the younger generation is “becoming tunnel-visioned”. His vision is to teach many people about fire-keeping so that they can use technology to work with their enhanced knowledge and understanding of fire.

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Burning on territory in Victoria, Australia with Trent Nelson and Tim Kanoa

16 september 2019 | min

Cultural burning exists around the world. This week we spoke with Trent Nelson and Tim Kanoa about the huge forward strides they have taken to get cultural burning back on the landscape on the other side of the globe, in Australia. We discuss the deep cultural ties to burning, what has been lost, and what can be gained by having it back on the land. We could learn a lot from their experience.

Resources

Trent Nelson: https://www.firstpeoplesvic.org/reserved-seat-holders/members-reserved-seat-holders/trent-nelson/

Tim Kanoa: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-kanoa-69803a103/

The Victorian Traditional Owner Cultural Fire Strategy: https://www.ffm.vic.gov.au/fuel-management-report-2018-19/statewide-achievements/cultural-fire-strategy

Native Title: https://www.ag.gov.au/legal-system/native-title

Recognition and Settlement Agreement: https://djadjawurrung.com.au/galka-our-organisation/#recognition-settlement-agreement

Cultural Landscape: https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1577/

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