Podd: Heroes & Humans of Football

Football and the trenches: The 1914 Christmas truce

19 december 2024 | 50 min

In 1914, 110 years ago exactly, British and German troops came up from the trenches to meet in no man’s land and play football. This remarkable event, known as the Christmas Truce, is the subject of today’s special episode.

Instead of focusing on one hero, human, or villain, this Christmas episode examines the humanity behind war, discussing how football has united people across languages, cultures, and history.

Simon and Mehreen delve deep into the story of World War I and beyond. They track the history of this poignant event, discussing its impact on Adolf Hitler (spoiler: he didn’t want to talk about it), the rise and suppression of women’s football, and discussing the event against wars and conflicts of today.

This poignant, moving episode is ideal listening for football and history lovers alike and signals the start of Heroes & Humans’ Christmas break. Thank you for listening to our episodes in 2024. It's been a true pleasure to see how football has united so many listeners across the globe.

Time stamps:

0:43: Setting the scene, 1914

6:30: Christmas Eve, 1914

11:25: How football united the warring sides

17:47: Was there just one Christmas truce match?

22:50: Were there any more sporting truces?

27:31: A gender revolution and the early rise of women’s football

31:05: Battle of the Somme and the end of the Great War

37:30: The legacy of the First World War, 110 years later

41:42: Reflections on today’s wars and conflicts (e.g., Russia-Ukraine)

Like this episode? Make sure to vote for Heroes & Humans of Football at the Sports Podcast Awards: https://bit.ly/4fkQ8uA

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The Brazilian Ronaldo and the 1998 World Cup Mystery

12 december 2024 | 84 min

12 July 1998, Paris. It’s the FIFA World Cup – France vs. Brazil. Brazil has the unstoppable Ronaldo (O Fenômeno – the Phenomenon) on their side, and crowds are expecting a Brazilian win.

Suddenly before the match, it’s announced Ronaldo isn’t going to play. Then, suddenly, he is. Nations watch, confused, as Brazil’s best player wanders the pitch like a sleepwalker with glazed eyes, and witness Brazil’s defeat of 3-0. So what actually happened?

In this podcast episode, Mehreen and Simon tackle the conspiracy theories, mysteries, and intrigue leading up to the memorable FIFA World Cup of 1998. They track Ronaldo’s early life in Brazil, his time at PSV Eindhoven, and the footballer’s incredible rise to dominance, with stats aged 20 better than Pelé.

Ronaldo R9, a cult icon, captured the world’s attention in the 1990s by aggressively dominating the pitch. Did he have a panic attack or fit before the game? Was he drugged to ensure a French win? Was he a pawn of Nike, who had an unusual amount of control over the Brazilian team?

This is an episode for mystery lovers, true crime lovers, and football fans alike.

Time stamps:

0:36: Setting the scene: The day of the ‘98 World Cup Final

7:15: Ronaldo’s stats and playing career

12:34: Teen years and move to the Netherlands

22:14: Joining and leaving Barça

27:16: World Cup time

34:10: Brazil reaches the final

39:18: Conspiracy theories go wild

46:33: Parliamentary enquiry, and a potential epileptic fit

54:03: More conspiracy theories (there’s a lot)

1:00:05: Is the simplest theory the correct one?

1:00:07: Ronaldo’s career, 1998-2002

1:12:48: Later life and children (and why McDonald’s is so important)

1:16:21: Ronaldo R9’s legacy and influence

Like this episode? Make sure to vote for Heroes & Humans of Football at the Sports Podcast Awards https://bit.ly/4fkQ8uA

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Live with Roddy Doyle: Roy Keane, Chelsea, Ireland & more

10 december 2024 | 63 min

Who is Manchester United’s new manager Ruben Amorim?

5 december 2024 | 52 min

Manchester United has seen numerous managers come and go since Alex Ferguson retired in 2013. With Erik Ten Hag now put to pasture, who is the new Portuguese millennial manager taking the job?

This episode discusses the life and managerial career (so far) of Ruben Amorim. This is the story of a man who has rapidly catapulted his career through the Portuguese football leagues, and is now saying goodbye to the Iberian sun in favour of rainy Manchester.

Simon and Mehreen discuss Amorim’s managerial training and life in Portugal, the shadow of fellow Portuguese football manager José Mourinho, and his ongoing commitment to the back three. The team is joined by Portuguese expert and football pundit Raquel Vaz Pinto, who provides unique insights into Amorim.

Known for being an empathetic and genuine manager that treats football coaching like a psychologist, are millennial-players-turned-coaches football’s hottest new property? And how will a man, known for his captivating press conferences in Portuguese, cope in his second language in an English-speaking environment?

Time stamps:

0:36: Introduction and stats

3:45: Early life and footballing career

7:41: Amorim’s coaching credentials and the influence of José Mourinho

14:17: Early coaching career

17:25: It all goes wrong (then right again)

22:25: Amorim revitalises Sporting Portugal (... not Sporting Lisbon)

27:43: Captivating audiences at press conferences

32:03: A strict and serious side

36:28: On English clubs’ radars

41:51: Modern management, ft. Millennials and Gen Z

45:57: What if he wasn’t in football?

Make sure to listen to the following episodes after this one:

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Eric Cantona: Art, violence, and the remaking of English football

28 november 2024 | 78 min

Eric Cantona is the epitome of Rimbaud and Rambo: an artistic poet and violent, tough man. So how did this paradoxical player transform Manchester United in the 1990s? And how did this affect English football as a whole?

In this episode, Simon and Mehreen delve deep into the life and times of French footballer Eric Cantona. They track his playing career in France, how he was the missing piece of the puzzle for 90s Manchester United, and his abrupt footballing career-end at the age of 31.

This is the story of a man who was built like a boxer and thinks of himself as an artist. Famous for his kung-fu kicks, red card troubles, and propensity towards violence, this episode discusses how he also embodied a new type of footballer in the 1990s and a work-hard mentality of football as an art.

Put your collars up for this insane, violent, and often poetic tale of the man of one of Manchester United’s most integral figures.

Time stamps:

0:36: Introduction and stats

03:44: Early life in Marseille

07:29: A gifted young footballer and early playing career

11:13: Controversy and trouble in French clubs

13:40: Move to England (and a love for Rimbaud or Rambo?)

17:12 Cult hero and collar up at Leeds

22:32: Ferguson chooses Cantona for Manchester United

26:32: Strong start at Manchester United

29:53: Raising the bar at Manchester United

35:27: Simon’s Financial Times front page cover on Cantona

45:51: Community service and controversies

49:16: Karate kicking journalists

52:35: French national football team

57:47: Unexpected retirement, acting career, and politics

1:03:43: What’s Cantona up to now?

1:11:29: What if Cantona hadn’t played football?

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Megan Rapinoe: When soccer gets political

21 november 2024 | 55 min

Megan Rapinoe is one of soccer’s most talented players, yet has an influence and legacy that extends far beyond the pitch. How did one American sportswoman become such a central figure in conversations about homophobia, feminism, and racism?

This episode tracks Rapinoe’s life, from growing up in a relatively poor working-class background to becoming the GOAT of women’s soccer. Mehreen and Simon examine how witnessing severe drug abuse and her family upbringing shaped her understanding of privilege and injustice.

This episode unpicks the polarising views of Megan, which are often at the centre of wider cultural wars. The episode discusses Rapinoe being the first top soccer player to come out (which was actually not too controversial), to being one of the first sportspeople to take the knee in 2016 (which was).

On one hand, Rapinoe is hated by president Donald Trump (“Woke equals failure”) and was once called the “most annoying sportsperson ever” by Piers Morgan. On the other hand, she is celebrated as a figure with a strong moral compass – standing up for injustices, unfair pay, and archaic power structures.

Is Rapinoe the new model for the next generation of sports stars? Or should politics be kept off the pitch?

Time stamps:

0:36: Introduction

4:43: A child of Trump’s America

9:45: A growing childhood interest in soccer

11:42: Recognising privilege and witnessing fentanyl addiction

17:17: College scholarship and move to Oregon

20:25: Discovering her sexuality

25:59: A poorly-paid pro, viral moments, and coming out

29:45: Intersectionality, homophobia, and equal pay

33:23: Racism and taking the knee in 2016

38:39: Trump vs. Rapinoe (with a father that votes for him)

44:27: Class action lawsuit for equal pay

47:10: Rapinoe’s legacy

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Cristiano Ronaldo’s battle for longevity

14 november 2024 | 56 min

No footballer in history has had a career at the top for as long as Cristiano Ronaldo. Nearing his 40th birthday, when will it be time for Ronaldo to finally retire? And will he bow out gracefully—or cry?

This is the second and final episode on Cristiano Ronaldo. Simon and Mehreen track Ronaldo’s life from 2009 onwards, detailing his transition to family man, his atmospheric rise on social media, and his footballing career after Manchester United.

This episode covers Ronaldo’s rivalry with Messi, his fear of decline and irrelevancy, and his dedication to football at every stage—whether it’s the Euros or in the Saudi league. Is it because of Ronaldo that football has reached a fetishisation of high performance?

This is the finale of the highest-paid athlete on earth who rose from nothing—a person who embodies hustle culture but whose self importance is so grandiose one can’t help but mock it.

Time stamps:

0:36: Ronaldo joins Real Madrid

5:05: Rivalry with Messi

9:11: Perfect life, perfect child, perfect wife?

17:01: Global icon and social media superstar

22:41: Euro 2016

29:13: Manchester United and Juventus

34:28: Humiliation and personal tragedy

37:55: Joining the Saudi pro league

41:36: Decline in the Portuguese national team

44:11: GOAT status or pipped to the post?

49:17: The Muslim conspiracy and ongoing legacy

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Cristiano Ronaldo: The alcoholic's son who became a workaholic

7 november 2024 | 62 min

Vain, disciplined, consistent: Cristiano Ronaldo is a football legend like no other. How did this hyper-athletic, prone-to-cry Portuguese player become such a dominant force—not only in football but on the world stage?

This episode is the first of two on the legendary football player and covers Ronaldo’s early life. The episode chronicles Ronaldo’s childhood, growing up as an unwanted child in relative poverty in Madeira, and his move to the Portuguese mainland, where he became determined to work harder, better, and faster than everyone else.

Simon and Mehreen paint a picture of Ronaldo’s ascent to international fame and superstardom, giving insight into his relationship with Alex Ferguson and Ronaldo’s tendency to always be an individual rather than a team player.

This is the first part of a story of the man who takes himself so seriously he has become a meme—and how his egocentric, strict discipline and routine helped to propel him to the top.

*Trigger warning: Mentions of sexual assault allegations, marked in the timestamps*

Time stamps:

0:36: Introduction and stats

4:01: Growing up in poverty in Madeira

9:22: Arrival to the mainland and showing fierce discipline

15:13: Youth career and rising competition for fame

20:40: Arrival at Manchester United

26:36: UEFA 2004 and a teenager’s determination for greatness

30:20: Controversies and acclaim at Manchester United

39:00: Ronaldo’s first Ballon D’Or (but not the last)

46:22: Alex Ferguson’s infantilisation of Ronaldo at Manchester United

50:25: Sexual assault allegations in Las Vegas *TW: contains mentions of alleged sexual violence that some listeners may find upsetting*

56:12: Wrap up and look towards part two

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Pogba: Brilliant, Betrayed, Banned.

31 oktober 2024 | 62 min

Paul Labile Pogba is, according to host Simon, one of the most gifted players of all time. How did an international, record-breaking superstar become embroiled in a mess of conspiracy, extortion and doping bans? And will we see a comeback for Pogba in 2025?

This episode covers Pogba’s life and career, from growing up in France and flying under the radar at Manchester United to a rise to dominance at Juventus and becoming the ‘Churchillian leader’ of the French National Team.

An incredibly gifted player whose play style can dominate all parts of the pitch, Simon and Mehreen also cover the dark downfall of Pogba’s late 20s. In Shakespearean fashion, Pogba's brother betrayed him (including a bizarre West African witch doctor story), only for him to fail a doping test after his comeback.

Will one of football’s most interesting main characters be able to take the centre stage ever again? Returning to football aged 32, will Pogba see a redemption, or is it all over for this tragic hero? And what hairstyle will we see next?

Time stamps:

0:36: Introduction and stats

3:31: Growing up and finding religion

9:02: Underestimated at Manchester United (and fights with Ferguson)

14:22: Success at Juventus

20:20: Dreams of total dominance

25:58: A leader is born

31:20: Racism and the ‘Karen’ of football

36:39: Complacency at Manchester United

39:09: Betrayal by his brother

46:28: The witch doctor conspiracy

40:28: Doping ban

52:08: Pogba’s legacy and future

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Maradona: Downfall

24 oktober 2024 | 56 min

By his late-20s, superstar footballer Maradona had it all: copious wealth and record-breaking transfer fees, a rockstar lifestyle, and a glittering presence at the World Cup. So what soured?

This is the tragic tale of Diego Maradona, from his late 20s until his death in 2020 at just 60 years old. This is the story of Maradona’s decades-long decline, from being (briefly) hated in Italy and failing drug tests on the international stage to unsuccessful tenures as a football manager.

Simon and Mehreen chronicle Maradona’s later years, including sought-after peace in the United Arab Emirates and constant returns to his country of Argentina. They reflect on Maradona’s legacy among the greats, and Simon gives his own insights into meeting Maradona—the polite man who often seemed a ‘performing seal’.

Above all, this episode covers Maradona’s intrinsic links to Argentina—the country that both revered and celebrated him but may also have been the cause of his demise. The episode paints a picture of Maradona as a resistance hero, a victim of racism, and a person who lived under the pressures of both extreme fame and famine.

This is the second part of a two-part podcast. Listen to ‘Maradona: From the slum to world champion’ before this one.

Time stamps:

1:44: The Napoli ‘cult’ starts to sour

6:57: The most hated man in Italy (briefly)

9:07: World Cups and failed drug tests

16:54: Simon meets Maradona

20:58: The ‘little man’ worldview of Argentinian politics and race

30:41: Maradona becomes the Argentine football manager

36:42: Move to the UAE—peace at last

43:25: Back in Argentina, and fatal heart attack

49:09: Maradona’s legacy

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Maradona: From the slum to world champion

17 oktober 2024 | 66 min

Only a few people can say they carry the weight of a nation on their shoulders – and football superstar Diego Maradona was one of them.

This episode, the first of a two-part series, covers the ‘glory’ years of Diego Maradona, the pocket rocket who became the face of Argentina and Argentinian football.

Named as one of the greatest players in the history of sport, this episode covers Maradona’s younger years—from rising success after growing up in the slums of Argentina, to stints at Barcelona, success at Napoli, and World Cup glories (and controversies).

In this episode, Mehreen and Simon also cover the dark side of Maradona—from routine drug taker and serial womaniser to mafia run-ins, military coups in Argentina, and the imprisoning effect of global fame.

What is the real story behind ‘el pibe de oro’ (the golden boy)?

Timestamps:

00:36: Introduction and career statistics

04:58: Growing up poor and ostracised in Argentina

12:06: Pro debut and lift from poverty

16:18: The cage of global fame and war in the Falklands

21:39: Drugs, drinking, and stardom

26:14: Napoli comes calling

29:45: Maradona and the mafia

34:52: The 1986 world cup and the ‘hand of god’ goal

50:23: The symbolic defeat of the imperial master (England)

56:19: Private life gets complicated

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Johan Neeskens: A Silent Legend in Total Football

15 oktober 2024 | 37 min

Mauricio Pochettino: A new face for US soccer

10 oktober 2024 | 82 min

Argentine football manager Pochettino has always been the type to fly under the radar – both as a player and a coach. Is it his time for the spotlight by bringing the US men’s team to glory?

In this episode, Simon and Mehreen cover nice guy Pochettino’s life, from growing up on a farm in Argentina to a football career in France—where he’s more motivated by the food and wine of Bordeaux than the club itself.

They cover his managerial career, and the story of a Spanish speaker who managed teams in England and France, yet could never communicate to his players except through translators. How, despite this, did he become arguably one of Tottenham Hotspurs most successful managers?

This episode covers a deeply spiritual man and ‘aura reader’ who rises to the heights of football (but never the pinnacle) by being a family-orientated nice guy—in stark contrast to other authoritarian, manipulative football managers.

Timestamps:

00:36: Introduction

3:07: First thoughts and career statistics

5:45: Growing up in rural Argentina

10:51: Scouting by Bielsa and a weird knock on the door at 2am…

17:31: A good-but-forgettable footballing career—the ultimate footballer NPC

27:53: Football’s good, but Pochettino’s about the food and wine (playing in Paris and Bordeaux)

34:33: Pochettino’s spiritualism. Simon’s not a fan.

43:09: Move to Southampton, with no knowledge of English

50:35: Non-verbal communication and call to Spurs

58:36: Rise and fall at Tottenham Hotspur

1:04:31: Move to Paris Saint Germain and a hollow victory

1:08:30: Chelsea comes calling

1:10:57: Move to the US men’s team – what will happen?

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The reign of Alex Ferguson

3 oktober 2024 | 89 min

Alex Ferguson spent 26 seasons as the coach of Manchester United – winning more trophies and accolades than any other manager in the history of football (although Pep may well beat that soon…).

Part 1, the making of Alex Ferguson, tracked the Scotsman’s early life and career. This sequel episode concentrates on how Ferguson helped lead Manchester United to international fame and dominance – gaining respect and recognition from world leaders along the way.

In this episode, Mehreen and Simon cover Ferguson’s career and coaching style through the 90s to his retirement in 2013. They touch on his style of coaching on players such as Eric Cantona, his influence over the Class of ‘92 – including Ryan Giggs and David Beckham – up to managing Cristiano Ronaldo.

This episode focuses on Ferguson’s contradictory nature – from his authoritarian and domineering nature that would be a nightmare for any HR department, to the popular manager that attracted respect and admiration from people across all walks of life.

This is the second episode of a two-part series. Make sure to listen to ‘The making of Alex Ferguson’ before this one.

Time stamps:

00:32: Pick-up from last episode – stats, scouting, and play style

08:58: A father figure and matching coaching style to fit the player (Cantona and the class of ‘92)

14:19: Managing the ‘night and day’ personality of Ryan Giggs

21:04: Ruthlessness, egomania, and ways to instill fear in players

26:18: Money and empathy in the era of hyper-rich football

35:00: ‘Fergie time’ and putting the pressure on extra time

42:16: Signing Cristiano Ronaldo and scouting new talent

46:10: Nearing retirement age but not ready to give up

54:51: Last blaze of glory and retirement

59:31: Working with Manchester United after retirement

1:01:49: Brain haemorrhage and influencing from the sidelines

1:07:49: Legacy of a brutal, almost political, figure

1:16:47: Applying the Ferguson leadership style to other industries

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The making of Alex Ferguson

26 september 2024 | 88 min

Alex Ferguson, the omnipotent, omnipresent orator, is widely regarded as one of the greatest football managers of all time. This episode tracks Ferguson’s early life and career, showcasing an intricate backstory marred by violence, conviviality, and a quest for greatness.

Mehreen and Simon chronicle Ferguson’s early life, from growing up in working-class Glasgow in the 1940s and part-time pub landlord to playing ‘international’ football, and a managerial career (and firing) in Scottish clubs in the 1970s.

What attracted Manchester United to this angry Scotsman who took everything so seriously? How did Ferguson build his role as a ‘do-all’ manager that will say hello to the footballers and cleaners alike, and sit on the phone to fan club presidents for hours?

This episode is part of a two-part series on Alex Ferguson, and is defined by comradeship, collectivism, and communication. Look out for the sequel, ‘The reign of Alex Ferguson’, which tracks Ferguson’s longtime success at Manchester United.

Time stamps:

00:45: Introduction

06:47: Growing up working class in Glasgow

16:23: Violence as a lasting influence

26:17: Welcome to H&H’s new AI friend…

28:40: Career as an ‘international’ footballer and almost-emigration to Canada

34:12: A record £60,000 transfer and move to coaching

39:33: Figuring out his coaching style in Scottish clubs

46:58: Anger, alcoholics, and temperance

51:14: Religious divisions and sacking from St Mirren

56:45: Move to coaching Aberdeen

1:03:42: Assistant Manager of Scotland and the death of Jock Stein

1:07:06: On Manchester United’s radar

1:12:53: Early coaching at Manchester United

1:18:57: The angry lunatic vs. the people person at Manchester United

1:25:09: Everything starts to turn around…

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Sepp Blatter & the FIFA corruption scandal (ft. the man himself)

19 september 2024 | 69 min

In 2010, the footballing community was shouting about corruption. FIFA had just awarded the 2018 World Cup to Russia and the 2022 World Cup to Qatar. Something didn’t sound quite right…

In this groundbreaking episode, Simon and Mehreen cover not only the life and corruption of former FIFA President Sepp Blatter, but also paint a picture of the geopolitical changes in global football and the rising power shifts from the West to the East.

The podcast features clips from an exclusive interview with Sepp Blatter himself, who candidly reveals details of his relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin, meetings with Qatar and French President Nicholas Sarkozy, and FIFA officials’ roles in the Qatari corruption scandal.

This is a story of power, money, and corruption—akin to a mafia movie or Hollywood biopic. You won’t want to miss it.

Time stamps:

00:26: Introduction

03:54: Growing up in Switzerland

08:02: Coca Cola gets Blatter into FIFA

13:32: From bureaucrat to the biggest job at FIFA

19:57: Turning a blind eye or encouraging corruption?

24:58: Simon’s run-in with Blatter (and missing out on a spa day)

34:49: Qatari official meets the French President

37:59: Russia and Qatar win the World Cup bid

45:04: Chuck Blazer blows the whistle

49:37: A farcical election and questions of conviction

57:36: A lonely 80s of court cases, irrelevance, and attempt to stop the Ukraine War

01:00:22: What is Sepp Blatter’s legacy?

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N'Golo Kanté: The humble superstar

12 september 2024 | 49 min

Defensive midfielder N’Golo Kanté has left a huge legacy on football, yet hardly anything is known about him. How did this humble, fame-shy footballer become so beloved by barely saying a single world?

In this episode, Simon and Mehreen cover the reclusive Kanté, from poor beginnings in the Paris banlieues to bringing underdog Leicester to shock victory in 2016. They cover his rise to worldwide recognition and uncomfortable relationship with fame as he sees further success at Chelsea and for the French national team.

Together, they piece together an intricate picture of the human behind the hero of football. They cover stories of the well-meaning Kanté, who had never been to a birthday party until his 20s, drives a Mini Cooper, doesn’t want to be paid via offshore tax havens, and struggles with the concept of hiring a cleaner.

But of course, there’s a more unfortunate side to being the most genuine person in league football – a side that leads to Kanté being held at gunpoint thanks to advantageous agents, and business decisions that seem slightly out of character.

This is the story of how the zippy ‘vacuum cleaner’ who hoovers up the midfield became one of the universally-liked men in football.

Time stamps:

00:40: Introduction to N’Golo Kanté (NG)

03:59: Growing up in Paris

07:20: Beginnings in third division French football

10:01: Maturing on and off the pitch at Caen

15:00: Arrival and success at Leicester

20:35: Move to Chelsea and the big leagues

29:00: France win the World Cup

34:35: A ‘vacuum cleaner’ on the pitch and discomfort at recognition

40:13: Surprise comeback at Al-Ittihad

45:15: What if Kanté hadn’t been a footballer?

For the 2024/25 Fantasy Premier League, why don't you join my mini-league "Heroes & Humans Of Football"?

Joining the league couldn't be easier. Simply use the link below and you'll be added automatically after you've entered the game.

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League Code: l7y2et

Looking forward to playing against you this season!

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The fall of José Mourinho

5 september 2024 | 59 min

Charismatic and polarising football coach José Mourinho always has one single goal for his teams: to win, no matter what. It’s this mentality that led him to awards, accolades, and admiration. So what happens when the winner stops winning?

This second and final episode on José Mourinho chronicles his fall from grace in the 2010s. Simon and Mehreen cover his arrival at Real Madrid in 2010 to joining Turkish football club Fenerbahçe in 2024—and how Mourinho turns toxic when he’s no longer at his peak winning streak.

Simon and Mehreen cover this new, more uncomfortable era for Mourinho—a time when aggressive coaching styles dominate, and awareness of men’s mental health becomes more mainstream. How does Mourinho adapt (or not adapt) during his tenures at Chelsea, Manchester United, and Tottenham Hotspur?

And is it really over for the notorious media star, love bomber, and genius strategist, or are we now entering Mourinho’s post-Roma redemption era? Listen to find out.

This is a two-parter; listen to our first episode on the rise of José Mourinho before this one.

Time stamps:

00:36: Welcome back

04:37: Arrival at Real Madrid

09:30: Spurring on the Real Madrid-Barça rivalry

14:45: An emotional loss (ft. two emotional Portuguese men)

18:11: The end of the Real Madrid ‘revenge tour’

19:24: Return to Chelsea and love bombing

27:43: Downfall at Chelsea, and the Justin Bieber incident

33:50: Mourinho struggles at Manchester United

40:33: Mourinho’s Manchester United gets left behind

44:35: An ill-fated tenure at Tottenham Hotspur

48:10: A hero’s welcome at Roma (and the start of redemption?)

50:04: Chasing dopamine at Fenerbahçe and Turkish football

53:40: Mourinho’s future and legacy

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The rise of Jose Mourinho

29 augusti 2024 | 78 min

Jose Mourinho is the arrogant and charismatic cult figure who divides opinions on the pitch and in the press room. Is he the genius strategist and saviour of failing clubs or just a toxic coach with main character syndrome?

This episode covers the rise of Mourinho, from his early beginnings in Portugal and Barcelona, to his time coaching Chelsea and Inter Milan. Simon and Mehreen analyse Mourinho’s rise to football supremacy with stories that even mega-fans (and mega-haters) may not have heard before.

In the episode, Simon and Mehreen share their tongue-in-cheek, in-depth analysis of Mourinho—as a love bomber and a ‘f***boy’, Mourinho’s problematic takes, and how he has been able to use his intelligence, charisma, and good looks for both good and toxic purposes.

This is a two-parter; look out for the next episode on the fall of Jose Mourinho.

Time stamps:

00:30: Rise, fall, and redemption (?)

4:00: Growing up in a rapidly-changing Portugal

9:40: Rise of the intellectual and start at Barcelona

16:56: Frustration to first big break

21:01: Spotting weaknesses in his opponents

25:35: Mourinho - the handsome, the charismatic

28:53: Becoming the main character – Porto success to Abramovich knocking

35:34: Chelsea beginnings and rise of the media manipulator

43:25: Mourinho “the psychic”

44:43: Problematic takes on African players

47:12: Mourinho the love bomber

50:38: Chelsea becomes toxic

57:51: Chelsea sacking and next big move

1:03:04: Saviour of Inter Milan

1:08:26: Heading for Madrid

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Sven-Göran Eriksson: A life, a legacy, a tribute

26 augusti 2024 | 74 min

Sven-Göran Eriksson, former England and Lazio manager, has died at the age of 76.

In this tribute episode, Mehreen and Simon discuss the colourful life and career of the small-town Swede who shook up English football as the country's first foreign national team coach and electrified the British tabloids at the height of media intrusion into the private lives of celebrities.

Mehreen and Simon are joined by Olof Lundh, Swedish sports journalist, on how Sven's career went from managing part-time players with Gothenburg in the '80 and ended in ignominy after an elaborate fraud involving the ghost owners of Notts County and a trip to North Korea. He was a perennial nearly-ran with England's "golden generation" of footballers, was duped by a "fake sheikh", and led a financially-doped Lazio in their greatest years, winning seven trophies in three years.

This is the story of Sweden's greatest ever coach and a remarkable footballing life. RIP Sven.

Timestamps:

00:20 Introduction

07:44: Humble beginnings and discovering football

13:25: Breakthrough with Gothenburg

15:51: Moves around Europe

17:50: The first foreign England manager

25:20: A calm demeanour in the hysterical noughties media

31:37: An English culture clash

34:08: Love affairs and the News International phone hacking scandal

38:19: Flirting with other jobs and the ‘fake sheikh’

45:31: Simon’s take on interviewing Sven

49:35: Penalties misery and protection of players

52:58: The end of England

55:16: The Scam move to Notts County

57:43: Naivete and a move away from European football

1:02:05: Sven reveals he has cancer

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Erling Haaland: The Gen Z goal monster

22 augusti 2024 | 49 min

Norwegian striker Erling Haaland is making football history with 63 league goals in two seasons. Tipped as a future Ballon d'Or winner, the 6ft4 speed machine seems to attract both rampant adoration and mockery.

In this episode, Simon and Mehreen chronicle Haaland’s short life and rise to glory - from growing up extraordinary in a culture that prioritises equality, and the influence of his sporting family. They chronicle his choices to go for growth over short-term glory, and his move to and impact at Manchester City.

During the episode, Simon and Mehreen discuss the paradoxes of Haaland’s personality - as both typical and ‘anti-Norwegian’, the awkward persona that makes him constantly go viral on social media, and his holy pursuit for longevity à la Cristiano Ronaldo - in contrast to more ‘stereotypical’ footballers such as Jack Grealish.

Time stamps:

00:32: Introduction to Erling Haaland

05:37: Early years in England with a footballer father

09:46: Growing up special in an equal society

14:17: The awkward teen years and rise of the ‘anti-Norwegian’

19:38: The influence of super-agent Mino Raiola and move to Salzburg

25:10: Rise to stardom at Dortmund

30:05: Becoming a viral social media sensation

34:37: Haaland’s Ronaldo-inspired quest for longevity

40:30: Manchester City and the precarious position of being Number 9

45:93: What would Haaland do without football?

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Erik Ten Hag: The doomed Dutchman of Manchester United?

15 augusti 2024 | 68 min

Ten Hag’s slow rise to coaching success seems to have come to an abrupt stop at Manchester United. Can the man who led other teams to glory turn the club around on his third attempt? Or is his tenure simply doomed?

In this episode, Mehreen and Simon chronicle the rise and fall of Erik ten Hag. They cover the hyper-organised, football-obsessed Dutchman’s rise from middling footballer to his slow and successful rise to Head Coach of Ajax.

On the way they investigate the influence of Pep Guardiola on his coaching style and his entrepreneurial obsession with becoming a Ferguson-style football ‘CEO’.

Timestamps:

00.35 - Introduction

05:50 - Childhood coaching-mindset to middling football player

11:47 - The dreamer assistant coach that thinks like a football CEO

13:54 - Assistant at Twente under Steve McClaren

16:34 - Successful stint as Head Coach with the Go-Ahead Eagles

20:37 - The influence of Pep Guardiola at Bayern Munich

24:31 - Back to the Netherlands and rise in Utrecht

27:45 - Move to Ajax - from mockery to success

32:33 - The iconic Spurs v Ajax Game, 2019

37:54 - Setting up at Man U and taking control of transfers

49:27 - Man U’s first season: Rocky beginnings or stable start?

56:54 - Staying resilient among increasing uncertainty

1:01 - The winning formula to being a good coach

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From Olympic Football to Financial Fair Play: Your Questions Answered

8 augusti 2024 | 57 min

In this special Q&A episode, hosts Mehreen Khan and Simon Kuper answer questions from listeners around the globe. From the Olympics to the intricacies of modern football management, Mehreen and Simon tackle a wide range of topics, providing insights and sharing personal anecdotes. Join us as we explore the world of football through the lens of your questions.

Timestamps:

01:25 - Discussion on the Olympics and its significance in football

06:20 - Emma Hayes' mixed Olympics with the US Women's Team

10:08 - The debate on a UK football team in the Olympics

15:02 - Chelsea's business model and financial strategies

18:12 - The controversial transfer market practices and financial fair play

21:00 - The future of Chelsea under new management

23:30 - The eternal debate: Who is the GOAT of football?

26:40 - Comparing players from different eras and the evolution of the GOAT debate

30:00 - Quickfire round: Hero or Villain?

33:08 - Reflecting on Gareth Southgate's tenure with England

36:58 - The role of modern football managers and their influence

39:35 - Speculation on Erik ten Hag's future at Manchester United

45:55 - The impact of American ownership on Premier League clubs

48:02 - Fantasy Premier League tips and Mehreen's starter squad

50:10 - The concept of "Brat" in football and notable examples

52:31 - The common traits among great footballers

54:49 - How Mehreen and Simon met and started the podcast

57:28 - Teaser for the upcoming Jose Mourinho special episode

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Reflections on Heroes & Humans debut season

1 augusti 2024 | 6 min

England's new manager Thomas Tuchel: the dark wellness fanatic

25 juli 2024 | 70 min

Tipped as one of the longshots and now England manager, Thomas Tuchel is the polarising German football coach known for his brilliance, fanaticism, and sometimes cruelty.

Simon and Mehreen cover the fascinating and complex world of Tuchel, whose career is defined by never-ending cycles of success and self-destruction. They chronicle his rollercoaster career—from early days in Germany under the shadow of Jürgen Klopp, to rises and falls at Paris St Germain, Chelsea, and Bayern Munich.

Discover how the enigmatic Tuchel’s unconventional training methods, tactical innovation towards coaching, and workaholic lifestyle lead him to become such a dividing and impressive figure of today’s football.

Time stamps:

00:30 - Introduction to Thomas Tuchel

01:03 - His unique lifestyle and beliefs

01:41 - The cycle: Success and self-destruction

02:04 - Potential candidacy for the England national team

03:21 - Early career and influences

05:33 - Playing career and transition to coaching

07:24 - Influence of Ralf Rangnick

09:09 - Innovative coaching methods and rise at Mainz

23:23 - Sabbatical and learning from other sports

30:14 - Terrorist attack on Dortmund's team bus

32.20 - Strained relationship with Dortmund's management

33:56 - Move to Paris Saint-Germain

34:50 - Approach to managing star players at Paris Saint Germain

36:24 - Champions League final and abrupt departure from Paris Saint Germain

38:42 - Arrival at Chelsea and immediate impact

43:26 - Winning the Champions League with Chelsea

50:26 - Personal challenges and departure from Chelsea

53:36 - Brief tenure at Bayern Munich

55:40 - Speculation on becoming England manager

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Emma Hayes: The Londoner who led the US women's team to Olympic gold

18 juli 2024 | 63 min

Answering Your Questions About Euro 2024

12 juli 2024 | 49 min

The New Faces of Spanish Football: Lamine Yamal & Nico Williams

11 juli 2024 | 52 min

Johan Cruyff & Holland 1974 - The most exciting team never to win the World Cup

4 juli 2024 | 56 min

Fifty years ago this week, Johan Cruyff took one of the most exciting teams in football history to the 1974 World Cup final. But his Holland lost to West Germany, largely because of what has gone down in Dutch history as “The Swimming Pool Affair” – a German tabloid’s front-page scoop that cost Cruyff great anguish and many hours in a phone booth calling his furious wife. We tell the story of Dutch “total football”, of the rock-star team that lived it large both on the field and off it, of the manager who was simultaneously coaching FC Barcelona, and of Johan Cruyff himself: the man who invented modern football, and fought with everybody, including with his biggest fan, Simon.

Timestamps:

00:00:29 - Introduction to the story of the 1974 Dutch national team and Johan Cruyff

00:02:23 - Explanation of the Dutch team's revolutionary playing style

00:03:19 - Background on the development of "total football" in Amsterdam

00:08:18 - Discussion of Cruyff's upbringing and early career with Ajax

00:10:05 - Cruyff's childhood and the impact of his father's death

00:11:30 - Introduction of Rinus Michels as Ajax manager

00:14:01 - Development of Ajax's new playing style under Michels and Cruyff

00:15:29 - Description of the dynamic between Cruyff and Michels

00:19:07 - Lead-up to the 1974 World Cup and the Dutch team's preparations

00:24:36 - Context of the 1974 World Cup in West Germany

00:27:02 - Description of the Dutch team's behaviour during the World Cup

00:28:17 - Cruyff's unconventional decisions in team selection

00:30:31 - Discussion of the Dutch team's appearance and iconic orange jerseys

00:33:03 - Description of the Dutch team's revolutionary playing style in action

00:36:07 - The "swimming pool affair" and its impact on Cruyff before the final

00:43:03 - The World Cup final against West Germany

00:45:55 - Aftermath of the final and Dutch reaction to finishing second

00:47:20 - Legacy of the 1974 Dutch team and Cruyff's impact on football

00:49:28 - Simon's experience interviewing Cruyff years later and subsequent fallout

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Risking their lives for football: Afghanistan's women's national team

27 juni 2024 | 52 min

The Afghan women’s national team doesn’t exist – not according to FIFA, anyway. The Taliban banned women's football when they took control of Afghanistan in 2021, forcing the team to flee the country for fear of their lives. But FIFA now refuses to recognise the team in exile, allowing the Taliban to continue their gender apartheid. Today, the team is fighting for FIFA recognition and their place in football. Living in exile and risking their lives to play football, the Afghan women's players are determined to return to the international game.

Mehreen and Simon talk to Khalida Popal, the woman who defied the country's misogynistic norms to set up the national team. She became the first female captain, coach, and executive in Afghanistan's history. This is a story of a team’s courage and comradery in the face of death threats and sexual assaults.

To support the Afghan women's team in their fight for recognition, you can sign this petition and follow Khalida Popal on LinkedIn:

https://www.change.org/p/fifacom-standwithafghanwomen-recognise-afghanistan-women-s-national-football-team-in-exile-follow-alivekicking23

https://www.linkedin.com/in/khalida-popal-64a29176?originalSubdomain=dk

Timestamps:

00:00:02 - Introduction to the episode about Afghanistan's women's football team

00:03:47 - Khalida Popal joins to discuss founding the team

00:03:55 - Growing up in Afghanistan before the Taliban

00:05:09 - Early exposure to football in Afghanistan

00:06:09 - Returning to Afghanistan after 2001 and facing resistance to women playing football

00:08:56 - Setting up a girls' football team at school despite challenges

00:12:51 - Men discover and threaten the girls playing football

00:14:57 - Story of a teammate forced to stop playing by her family

00:18:06 - Establishing the Afghan women's national team

00:21:07 - Negotiating with the Afghan Football Federation for recognition

00:25:16 - Difficulties of managing the national team and facing abuse

00:30:10 - Fleeing Afghanistan due to death threats

00:33:56 - Evacuating players as Taliban returned to power in 2021

00:41:29 - Current players describe obstacles they faced playing in Afghanistan

00:43:01 - Players' experiences when Taliban took over in 2021

00:45:04 - Campaign for FIFA to recognise the exiled Afghan women's team

00:48:03 - FIFA's lack of response to requests for recognition

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Messi & Argentina: A Love Story (of sorts)

20 juni 2024 | 51 min

It's bizarre how long it took Argentinians to learn to love Leo Messi. His exile from his declining homeland always made him suspect. The comparison with Maradona hung over him from the start. And why was he hardly ever as good for Argentina as he was for Barcelona? We tell the story of the world's best player's complex relationship with his own country, and how it finally had a happy end.

Timestamps:

00:00:02 - Introduction

00:01:18 - Messi's fraught relationship with Argentina

00:06:24 - Messi as the embodiment of the Pibe archetype

00:11:36 - Messi's early international career and struggles with Argentina

00:18:52 - 2014 World Cup and Argentina's attempt at a "Messi strategy"

00:24:06 - 2014 World Cup disappointment and Messi's frustrations

00:29:19 - Psychoanalysis of Messi's perceived lack of Argentinian-ness

00:36:58 - Messi finally wins Copa America in 2021

00:39:35 - 2022 World Cup in Qatar and initial struggles

00:40:24 - Argentina's resurgence and Messi's leadership

00:42:15 - Winning the 2022 World Cup as a team

00:44:26 - Messi's place in Argentinian history compared to Maradona

00:46:10 - Speculation on Messi's life without football

00:48:02 - Would the hosts want to hang out with Messi?

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Gareth Southgate: National hero or overhyped mediocrity?

12 juni 2024 | 67 min

Gareth Southgate's tactical and managerial qualities still split fan opinion as he leads England in his fourth major tournament at the Euros in Germany this summer. But one thing that can't be disputed is Southgate's ability to unite his players in a team whose confidence has been battered by two decades of under-achievment. The former Aston Villa captain has been a leading voice against racism directed at young black English players and is arguably redefining the notion of Englishness in modern Britain.

Simon and Mehreen discuss the steps and experiences that how Southgate came to manage another golden generation of English footballers, growing up in a respectable family in South London, learning from the negatives, and bouncing back from *that* penalty miss in Euro '96. But will Gareth Southgate go down in history as a unifying England manager or just another nearly-ran?

Timecodes:

00:00:43 - Proposition: Gareth Southgate is a very laudable, commendable figure, but is he a national hero or overhyped mediocrity?

00:02:22 - Southgate's background and upbringing in Crawley

00:05:52 - Joining Crystal Palace as an apprentice and experiencing class division

00:08:31 - Southgate's playing career at Palace, Villa, and Middlesbrough

00:12:04 - First meeting with Southgate and the Euro 1996 penalty miss

00:19:25 - John Major's encouragement after the penalty miss

00:22:22 - Southgate's unfulfilled club career and disappointment

00:27:56 - Becoming England manager in 2016 after a national humiliation

00:33:06 - Resetting expectations and creating a high-performance culture

00:39:20 - 2018 World Cup and learning to love the new England team

00:43:16 - Black Lives Matter movement and Southgate's stance

00:50:00 - Euro 2020 final against Italy and the penalty misses

00:54:10 - Expectations for the 2022 World Cup and Southgate's limitations

01:00:22 - Southgate's vision of an inclusive and modern Englishness

01:04:34 - Conclusion and Southgate's potential legacy

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Henry Winter: Chronicler of English football

6 juni 2024 | 42 min

On the eve of Euro 2024, Henry talks about nearly 30 years of dealing with England managers and players, from Glenn Hoddle to Harry Kane - with some very kind words for Jack Grealish.

Henry Winter is one of the best known and most respected journalists in the English language. Having covered football for over 38 years, conducted over 1500 interviews, and attended thousands of matches, Henry might have a story or two to share. In this episode, we talk to Henry about football journalism, how it's changed over the decades, and the rise of modern media, as well as how he navigates the complicated relationships that journalists have with players and managers.

Timestamps:

00:13:06 Discussion about how football clubs and players are doing more community work than the government, particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic.

00:16:22 Reflection on the changing relationship between football players and the press, from adversarial in the past to more cooperative now.

00:17:14 Discussion on the growth of fan-related content and how it reflects fans' frustration with mainstream media.

00:21:28 Admission of making a mistake by making fun of Ronaldo's weight on Twitter, learning a lesson about not personalising criticism.

00:22:39 Reflection on the moral substance of many football players, particularly in contrast to politicians.

00:27:14 Discussion about the most interesting people to meet in football, including Sir Alex Ferguson, Pele, and Jurgen Klopp.

00:29:57 Talk about who is best at discussing football itself, mentioning Glenn Hoddle and other players who didn't have much pace but became good managers.

00:30:56 Question about who one would be happy never to see again, with a reluctant mention of FIFA president Gianni Infantino.

00:31:33 Suggestion: Jurgen Klopp is one of the most misunderstood people in football, with more science behind his emotional style than people realise.

00:33:34 Discussion about England's chances in Euro 2024, praising players like Jude Bellingham, Phil Foden, and Declan Rice.

00:34:48 Talk about how social media affects players' mental health, with many going off social media due to abuse and intensity.

00:36:52 Pondering what one would be doing if not a football writer, suggesting possibly stacking shelves at Selfridges.

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Jude Bellingham: Born in England, made in Europe

30 maj 2024 | 68 min

Jude Bellingham could go down as the best English player to never play in the Premier League, but how did he go from a shy and polite young boy from Stourbridge, to an integral part of Real Madrid's push for the Champions League title this season?

This episode describes the careful and precise decisions of Jude Bellingham's career so far that have led him to the biggest stage of world football, despite still being 20 years old. From the thinking behind his shirt number at Birmingham, to rejecting England's biggest clubs in favour of a move to Germany.

Timestamps:

00:00:00 - Introduction to the podcast episode on Jude Bellingham.

00:02:07 - Discussing Bellingham being compared to the fictional character Roy of the Rovers.

00:07:00 - Bellingham's background and upbringing in Birmingham.

00:10:12 - Insights from Bellingham's youth coach Paul Robinson on coaching him at Birmingham City.

00:16:13 - Bellingham's decision to join Borussia Dortmund instead of clubs like Manchester United and Chelsea.

00:22:48 - Bellingham's time at Borussia Dortmund and his relationship with players like Erling Haaland.

00:29:27 - Bellingham's performance at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar.

00:32:07 - Bellingham's transfer to Real Madrid in 2023.

00:41:44 - Bellingham's incredible goalscoring form for Real Madrid in his first season.

00:49:54 - Discussion on Bellingham's potential legacy and future.

00:57:20 - The rising trend of incredibly talented young footballers emerging at a very young age.

01:05:00 - Speculating on what profession Bellingham could have pursued if not football.

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Carlo Ancelotti: The Godfather of the Champions League

23 maj 2024 | 63 min

Carlo Ancelotti, son of poor Italian farmers, could be about to win a record fifth Champions League with Real Madrid. That’s pretty good for a guy whose managerial career started with him refusing to sign Roberto Baggio. This episode describes how the nicest man in football learned how to handle the egomaniacs around him, give players the power, and always made sure that everybody ate well together. The secrets of “quiet leadership” all around the world, from the coach whose own role model is Vito Corleone.

Timestamps:

0:00 - Introduction to the episode on Carlo Ancelotti

0:29 - Ancelotti's background as a player and coach who won multiple Champions Leagues

2:21 - Ancelotti's qualities of being funny and having empathy

2:59 - Ancelotti's early life and family background in a farming village in Italy

6:22 - Ancelotti's time playing for Arrigo Sacchi's revolutionary AC Milan team

9:27 - How Ancelotti dealt with egos like Silvio Berlusconi as a player at Milan

11:51 - Ancelotti's early coaching jobs and transition to a more flexible style

14:50 - Ancelotti getting fired just before halftime at Juventus

16:31 - Ancelotti's successful stint at AC Milan as a manager winning the Champions League

19:00 - Ancelotti's time at Chelsea and getting fired in the tunnel after winning the double

22:19 - Ancelotti building Paris Saint-Germain into a top club after their takeover

25:39 - How Ancelotti managed egos like Zlatan Ibrahimovic at PSG

28:19 - Ancelotti's first stint at Real Madrid and his relationship with Cristiano Ronaldo

34:49 - Ancelotti's short tenures at Bayern Munich, Napoli and Everton

36:57 - Ancelotti breaking his Champions League wins record in his second Real Madrid stint

39:41 - Ancelotti's empathetic man-management style with players like Vinicius Jr, Bellingham

44:13 - Ancelotti potentially becoming Brazil's next manager

46:27 - Discussion on Ancelotti's leadership style and legacy

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Mohammed bin Salman: The most powerful man in football?

16 maj 2024 | 47 min

Mohammed bin Salman may be the most influential person in global football, even though he doesn’t seem to like the game. In 2021, the Saudi millennial crown prince became the ultimate owner of Newcastle United, when the Premier League club was bought by Saudi Arabia’s sovereign wealth fund. The country’s de facto leader is also pumping billions into the Saudi Pro League, where Cristiano Ronaldo and Neymar are on the crown’s payroll.

MBS is almost certain to win the ultimate prize of hosting the FIFA World Cup in 2034, and probably also the Women’s World Cup 2035 – despite Saudi Arabia’s not very woman-friendly reputation. All this for a man who seems to have never taken an interest in football, neither as a fan nor as a player.

In 2014, hardly anyone even in Saudi Arabia had heard of him. How did he go from a nobody to the most powerful ruler in the country’s history? And why did he then jump into football? Mehreen and Simon chart the life of a once unremarkable, and not very wealthy, lowly prince, who has risen to become the most authoritarian leader in Saudi’s modern history.

It’s a story of a rapid rise to the top, dictatorial power, extra-judicial killings, and trillions of dollars that are being deployed to refashion the Saudi economy. With his nation’s petrodollars, MbS is now taking over golf, Formula 1, and even snooker. But MbS’s most controversial foray into global sport is the world’s most popular game.

Why is MBS in football, and will he stay?

Timestamps:

00:01:04 - Introducing Mohammed bin Salman (MBS)

00:01:32 - Mehreen discusses her connection to Saudi Arabia as a Muslim

00:03:02 - Discussion of MBS's background and rise to power in Saudi Arabia

00:06:44 - MBS locking up his own mother early in his reign

00:08:25 - MBS's attempts to modernise and reform Saudi Arabia

00:12:19 - MBS's envy of Qatar hosting the 2022 World Cup

00:14:13 - MBS's appearance at the 2018 World Cup opening match in Russia

00:16:15 - The murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi by Saudi agents

00:20:28 - MBS's decision to host the 2034 and likely 2035 World Cups in Saudi Arabia

00:23:24 - MBS's purchase of Newcastle United FC

00:28:10 - Saudi investments in bringing star players to the Saudi Pro League

00:32:42 - Analysis of MBS's motivations for investing heavily in football/sports

00:39:19 - Comparing MBS to Roman Abramovich's ownership of Chelsea FC

00:42:37 - What career MBS might have had if not a Saudi prince

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The Leadership Secrets of Jürgen Klopp

9 maj 2024 | 74 min

Jürgen Klopp resigns as Liverpool manager this month after a nine-year love affair with the club and city, where he became practically a benign cult leader. Above and beyond the Champions League and English title that he won with his “Heavy metal football”, he offered a model of leadership so lacking in our time.

The most charismatic manager in football—those teeth visible from outer space, that laugh, that way with words—won't be forgotten. In this episode, we tell Klopp’s story, from his origins in the Black Forest through a long career as an unskilled lower-division footballer to finding his vocation in coaching. We ask: How can we all be a little bit like Jürgen Klopp? And what might he do next?

Timestamps:

00:57 Reflecting on Jurgen Klopp's final days at Liverpool after a nine-year tenure.

01:26 Speculation on Klopp's next steps post-Liverpool.

01:45 Discussion on Klopp's transformation in appearance and style over the years.

03:21 Praise for Klopp's human qualities and leadership style.

04:07 Summary of Klopp's career achievements with Mainz, Dortmund, and Liverpool.

05:22 Insights into Klopp's challenging childhood and relationship with his father.

06:30 Exploration of Klopp's cultural and regional background from Swabia, Germany.

07:23 Klopp's spending habits and moral stance on financial matters in football.

10:46 Transition of Klopp from a player to a coach at Mainz.

11:32 Initial scepticism and humour around Klopp's appointment as Mainz manager.

16:12 Klopp's rise to fame in Germany through television during the 2006 World Cup.

18:00 Klopp's emotional farewell from Mainz.

19:44 Klopp's move to Dortmund and his impact there.

23:44 Klopp's personal approach to managing and connecting with people at Dortmund.

28:33 Klopp's eventual move to Liverpool and the cultural fit with the city.

32:41 Klopp's first press conference at Liverpool, where he calls himself "the normal one."

35:42 Klopp's impact at Liverpool, leading to a Champions League win and a Premier League title.

39:52 Klopp's energetic and emotional celebration style.

46:01 Liverpool's comeback against Barcelona in the Champions League semi-final.

49:56 Discussion on Klopp's decision to leave Liverpool at the end of the 2023–2024 season.

57:31 Speculation about Klopp's future after leaving Liverpool and his potential impact outside of football.

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Uncancelling Hakan Şükür

2 maj 2024 | 50 min

Hakan Şükür is Turkey’s greatest ever footballer, highest goalscorer, and still the man who holds the record for scoring the fastest goal in a World Cup after just 11 seconds in 2002. But for the last nine years, he’s been living in self-imposed exile in the US, moonlighting as an Uber driver, and having his legacy wiped from the records of Turkish football history. Turkey’s ruling AKP party has branded him a “terrorist”, and even saying his name on TV can get you the sack, as one commentator found out during the Qatar World Cup.

This is the story of a footballing hero who has suffered a humbling fall caused by politics, upheaval and a failed coup in Turkey. Şükür, whose father was born in Bosnia and his mother in North Macedonia, helped Turkey finish third in the 2002 World Cup and led his Galatasaray team to a UEFA Cup triumph in 2000 – the first European trophy won by a Turkish domestic side and the high watermark of Turkish football this century. Known as the “Bull of the Bosphorus” for his goal-scoring instincts, Şükür combined his football career with membership of Turkey’s Hizmet movement, a religious organisation led by Islamic scholar, Fethullah Gulen, which has been dubbed as part of Turkey’s “deep state”. The movement recruited lawyers, civil servants, politicians and footballers – and were active in the Galatasaray changing room in the 2000s, says author and anthropologist John McManus.

During the 90s and 2000s, Şükür is a Turkish superstar, and Gulen is allied with Turkey’s Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the leader of the conservative AKP party, who became prime minister in 2003 and the country’s current president. After retiring from football in 2007, Şükür became a member of parliament for Erdogan’s party while retaining his Gulen affiliations, but claims he was always a reluctant politician. In 2013, Gulen and Erdogan have a spectacular fall-out and Şükür, a national hero, is caught in the middle of an internecine struggle for power and influence in Turkey. In 2015, he flees to the US after being prosecuted over a tweet which “insults the president”. Şükür would never return to his homeland.

The episode charts the spectacular cancellation of a footballing icon whose political allegiances put him on the wrong side of an increasingly authoritarian government. In telling his story, Simon and Mehreen attempt to uncancel Hakan Şükür.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to the episode on Hakan Şükür

01:23 - Simon's first impression of watching Şükür play for Turkey

02:00 - Şükür's peak at the 2002 World Cup

04:25 - Şükür's background and early career

06:25 - The "Welcome to Hell" match between Galatasaray and Manchester United

11:23 - Şükür's performance at the 2002 World Cup, including scoring the fastest ever World Cup goal

14:04 - Explanation of the Gulen movement and Şükür's involvement

23:54 - How Şükür likely got recruited into the Gulen movement

27:52 - Şükür's career after retirement and move into politics

31:04 - Breakdown of Şükür's relationship with Erdogan starting in 2013

34:15 - The failed 2016 coup attempt and Şükür being branded a terrorist

38:20 - Şükür living in exile in the US and working jobs like an Uber driver

41:40 - Şükür continues to criticise Erdogan from exile despite threats

44:36 - Discussion on whether Şükür can ever return to Turkey

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Who is Liverpool manager Arne Slot?

30 april 2024 | 32 min

Who is Arne Slot? Simon Kuper, who grew up in the Netherlands and remains a Dutch football obsessive, reveals all about the new Liverpool manager. Join Heroes & Humans for our first ever emergency episode to hear about the new Klopp mini-me.

The Dutchman from a family of schoolteachers is Klopp without the charisma and the teeth visible from outer space. He’s even practically German (well, ten minutes’ drive from the border). We have other comparisons: Slot’s playing career as the slowest Dutch midfielder since Louis van Gaal. And Simon discusses Slot’s similarities and differences with the dreaded Erik ten Hag, and why he’ll probably do better than poor Ten Hag has done at Manchester United. But we also draw a more encouraging parallel: why Slot-for-Klopp looks a lot like Bob Paisley replacing Bill Shankly.

Above all, listeners get a free lesson in how to pronounce Slot’s name.

Timestamps:

00:02 - Introduction to the podcast "Heroes and Humans of Football"

00:48 - Simon expresses excitement about a Dutch manager being hired at Liverpool

01:04 - Discussion about pronouncing Arne Slot's name correctly

02:06 - Details on Liverpool potentially paying £10 million to secure Slot from Feyenoord

03:40 - Comparison of Slot to Erik ten Hag and Bob Paisley

06:43 - Slot's background: growing up in a small village near the German border

09:06 - The potential influence of Billy Beane (Moneyball) in Slot's hiring at Liverpool

12:28 - Slot's coaching style and philosophy, similar to those of Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp

16:43 - How Slot got Feyenoord to buy into and execute his high-pressing system

18:21 - Funny anecdote about Slot laughing at Diego Simeone after beating Atlético Madrid

19:23 - Mehreen's take on Slot's appearance and communication style

21:03 - Why Slot may succeed at Liverpool, where Ten Hag struggled at Manchester United

23:35 - Slot's reliance on wingers and fullbacks suits Liverpool's current squad

25:19 - Feyenoord's limited budget that Slot had to work with

26:21 - Potential weakness of Slot being vain/having high self-esteem

27:43 - Caution about difficulty of replacing a legend like Jurgen Klopp at Liverpool

28:31 - What profession Slot would have if not football (school teacher ... again)

29:09 - Whether they would enjoy spending an evening with Slot

30:24 - Slot has to try to beat his hero Pep Guardiola at Manchester City

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The Fall of Arsène Wenger

25 april 2024 | 54 min

From innovator to "specialist in failure," this riveting episode charts Arsène Wenger's steep fall at Arsenal. His pioneering vision had remade English football, introducing new tactics, diets, and a cosmopolitan ethos that redefined excellence. The unbeaten "Invincibles" season cemented his legend, but also marked the start of a tragic decline.

As richer clubs co-opted Wenger's methods, his stubborn penny-pinching while Arsenal's debt piled up from their new Emirates stadium ended up creating fan toxicity. The famous (and hilarious) battle of "Pizzagate" at Old Trafford in 2004 signalled the start of the unravelling.

With raw insight on Wenger himself, the episode explores the personal costs of his uncompromising obsession, which alienated even die-hard fans. From glorious highs battling Sir Alex Ferguson to humiliating lows like a 6-0 loss on his 1000th game, it traces Wenger's descent from manager to "specialist in failure" caricature. And yet all through it, he loved his job at Arsenal.

This unsparing portrait captures the complexity of a man who remade the modern game yet stubbornly clung to his principles amid changing circumstances. The biggest victim was Wenger himself. His rise, fall, and self-reckoning are the story of a man who ended up feeling he had devoted too much of his life to football.

Timestamps:

0:00 - Introduction to Arsene Wenger and framing his rise and fall

3:00 - Wenger's meteoric rise, pioneering approach and creation of the "Invincibles"

9:00- The "Pizzagate" incident at Old Trafford in 2004 signals the start of Wenger's decline

14:30 - Wenger's aversion to spending and friction with new free-spending owners like Abramovich

19:00 - Poor decisions like selling Van Persie as criticisms mount

23:00 - The Emirates Stadium move precipitating years of austerity and player sales

28:30 - Wenger becoming alienated from fans, a "specialist in failure" meme

33:00 - The lingering pain of the 2006 Champions League final loss

38:00 - How Wenger coped by doubling down on his autonomy as results worsened

43:00 - Rise of fan channels like AFTV amplifying "Wenger Out" toxicity

48:30 - Wenger's forced 2018 exit after protracted decline

53:00 - His struggle adapting to civilian life and reflections on sacrificing family

58:00 - Reassessing Wenger's complicated legacy as a transformative pioneer

1:03:00 - Looking ahead - could Arsenal find a role for him?

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The Rise of Arsène Wenger

18 april 2024 | 53 min

From his humble beginnings in an Alsatian village to his revolutionary tenure at Arsenal from 1996 to 2004, Wenger's journey is a testament to his innovative spirit and enduring influence on English football. Exploring Arsène Wenger's meteoric rise at Arsenal, this first episode of a two-part series delves into the origins and golden years of one of the Premier League's most unforgettable managers.

Starting in Duttlenheim, where Wenger grew up in the post-WWII era, his early experiences in a village transitioning back to French control from Germany set the stage for his European outlook and multilingual skills. His transition from a modest playing career to groundbreaking coaching stints across Europe, including a life-changing period in Japan, laid the groundwork for his Arsenal legacy.

With three Premier League titles and a remarkable undefeated season with "The Invincibles" in 2003-04, Wenger's Arsenal redefined footballing excellence. His emphasis on a cosmopolitan approach, meticulous attention to player development, and a pioneering embrace of sports science and dietary regimens marked a departure from traditional English practices.

When Simon and Mehreen reflect on Wenger's journey, a picture emerges of a man whose dedication to football verged on obsession, often at personal cost. His love for the game and commitment to innovation left an indelible mark on Arsenal and the Premier League. His early triumphs remind us of the profound impact one individual can have on a sport, a club, and its global fanbase. Wenger's story is a blend of ambition, innovation, and the relentless pursuit of excellence—qualities that made him great and defined an era of football that continues to inspire and resonate.

Timestamps:

00:00 Excitement for Wenger, his legacy, and fan culture.

04:22 The French manager becomes known for his unstylish appearance.

08:20 Father's health recovered after World War 2.

11:50 University of Strasbourg graduate, economist, Arsenal manager.

12:52 Fascinated by Germany, no war hatred. Coaching.

17:57 Wenger, an economist, uses data to analyse football performance.

21:49 Wenger arrives at a small, hidden stadium. Different.

22:19 Club guest talks to woman about crucial figure.

27:41 England offers the manager a job; Wenger turns it down.

30:45 Players arrived at training under the influence of alcohol.

35:24 Wenger identifies talented players, signs them.

37:14 Wenger's scouting approach and successful player development.

40:39 The manager uses data to guide player substitutions.

42:53 Drogba's "impressive" performance against Arsenal for Chelsea.

45:34 Arsenal's confident old city, winning medals profusely.

49:09 Wenger goes from admired to joke.

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Mo Salah: Egyptian King

11 april 2024 | 51 min

Mohamed Salah is the greatest player to emerge from a football-mad part of the world that has rarely produced elite talent on the level of the clinical, curly-haired winger: the Arab world.

Born in a humble town in Egypt, the Arab world’s most populous country, Salah is an icon in Africa and the Middle East and ranks among the greatest Muslim athletes of the modern era. The 31 year-old’s breakthrough in European football may never have happened were it not for the tragic breakdown of law and order in Egypt in the aftermath of the Arab Spring in 2011. A young Salah had his dream of playing for one of Egypt's big clubs taken away from him following the Port Said stadium disaster, one of the deadliest episodes of football violence in the 21st century.

He burst onto the scene in European football with Swiss side Basel, putting in man of the match performances against Chelsea in successive cup competitions, scoring three times against the Blues who went on to sign him at the age of 22. Liverpool missed out on his signature because they didn’t think he was worth his £11 million transfer fee.

Salah suffered his worst season as a professional under totemic Chelsea coach Jose Mourinho, who loaned him off after a year in one of the worst transfer decisions ever made by the club. After a stint in Serie A, Salah returned to England with a vengeance with Liverpool in 2017 and has become an Anfield legend, winning the Premier League and Champions League under Jurgen Klopp.

Simon and Mehreen tell the story of a footballer whose impact goes far beyond Liverpool FC or football. He’s probably the only sportsman who has been empirically proven to have helped reduce racism against Muslims in the UK, with his quiet piety, prostrating goal celebrations and boundless dedication to his craft.

A generation of young Egyptians who had their freedoms and aspirations brutally suppressed by Egypt's military dictator following the end of the Arab Spring find rare hope in Salah. Liverpool’s Egyptian King is a beacon for millions who will never get the chance to fulfil their dreams in the autocratic, repressive state.

Timestamps:

00:00 Salah stands out as unique Arab footballer.

04:59 Mohammed Salah overcomes obstacles to pursue football.

06:48 Salah emerges as rising football star in Egypt.

09:48 Port Said Massacre led to end of Egyptian revolution.

15:33 Limited play, occasional impact, inconsistent performance.

18:08 Salah's successful transfers lead to record deal.

21:32 Salah's uncertain start, followed by remarkable success.

24:19 Ramos highlights need to eliminate key player.

27:33 Egypt's football journey, Mohamed Salah's pressure, World Cup politics.

30:15 Salah's impact on Liverpool's success and growth.

34:49 Muslim soccer player connects with fans, transcends stereotypes.

36:07 Salah's influence on a Liverpool fan's transformation.

40:52 Salah may end career in Arab world.

42:41 Salah's success is rare amidst Arab adversity.

46:15 Salah's existence sparks debates and political expectations.

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Pep Guardiola: GOAT or Human?

4 april 2024 | 87 min

Born in the Catalan village of Santpedor, Pep's early life was steeped in the resurgence of Catalan identity post-Franco. His childhood, which was characterised by his village's isolation and cultural defiance, served as a prelude to a career that would challenge and redefine football norms.

Pep's footballing philosophy began to take shape here, in the fertile grounds of Barça, under the guidance of Johan Cruyff, the father of total football. Cruyff saw in Pep not just a player but a kindred spirit, a conduit for his revolutionary ideas on the pitch.

Pep's playing career at Barcelona manifested his cerebral approach to the game. He was slow and couldn’t tackle, but his understanding of space, movement, and tactical coherence made him indispensable. Yet, it was off the field, in conversations & debates with Cruyff, where Pep's future as a coach was being forged. Their shared vision for football's possibilities became the foundation of Pep's approach to management.

Guardiola's transition to coaching was as unexpected as it was meteoric. Chosen to lead Barcelona at just 37, he embodied the club's desire for a Catalan at the helm, a move that might seem narrow-minded to outsiders but was very meaningful to those within the close-knit Barcelona family. Pep's journey had its challenges. His relationship with Mourinho, once marked by mutual admiration, evolved into a rivalry that mirrored their contrasting football philosophies. Meanwhile, Pep's commitment to Catalan independence, juxtaposed with his affiliations with Qatar & the UAE, painted a complex picture of a man navigating the intersecting realms of politics, identity, and sport.

Pep Guardiola's legacy is not merely a collection of trophies but a testament to the power of ideas in shaping the beautiful game. His story is a celebration of intellectual curiosity, tactical innovation, & the enduring impact of a coach who, despite reaching the zenith of football management, remains a student of the game.

Timestamps:

00:00 Pep Guardiola's legacy.

09:51 Despite his limitations, Cruyff saw potential in a young Pep Guardiola and even changed his position to central defence, despite his lack of speed and defensive abilities.

25:19 Barcelona interviews Guardiola but prefers Mourinho due to set criteria.

26:36 Pep Guardiola becomes Barcelona's head coach unexpectedly.

35:38 Pep guides Messi and recommends he become a false nine.

45:22 Mourinho and Pep have conflicting coaching styles during their time at Madrid and Barca.

48:40 Pep resigns, takes sabbatical, Tito steps up.

53:47 Pep coaches kids soccer & Nathan Redmond during games, showing non-partisan sportsmanship.

59:57 Evolution of management; Foden challenges Pep, culture change in football.

01:09:56 Catalan movement, Pep criticised for lack of consistency.

01:13:22 Guest, John Carlin, met Pep Guardiola in New York, became good friends. Dined together, mutual close friends, empathises with him.

01:20:09 Football evolution and shift in the game has been largely driven by Pep's influence, with teams adopting a fast-paced, pressing style of play.

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Roman Abramovich: Should Chelsea fans still love him?

28 mars 2024 | 65 min

Roman Abramovich's story unfolds with the complexity of a man who came from Russia to reshape Premier League football. Starting life in a nondescript communist town, orphaned and adopted within an anti-Semitic Soviet Union, Abramovich's acute sensitivity to others' desires propelled him from selling rubber ducks to amassing a fortune amid the chaos of post-Soviet privatisation.

His acquisition of Chelsea FC in 2003 marked a pivotal moment, introducing unprecedented investment into the sport, but also igniting debates around sports washing and the ethical dimensions of football ownership.

Abramovich started at Chelsea painfully aware of his big handicap: he knew no more about football than the average fan. So he displayed another secret of his success: he is a good listener. Despite being the master of all he surveyed at an historically mediocre club, initially he barely opened his mouth.

Under Abramovich, Chelsea claimed 19 trophies in 19 years, but underlying his tenure was a mysterious relationship with Putin and sanctions following geopolitical tensions.

After his fall from grace and forced sale of Chelsea amidst accusations and personal risks, including poisoning, Abramovich's legacy in football remains divisive. Admirers cite his contributions to the club and community. For Mehreen, as a Chelsea fan, there is a part of her that still adores him even in 2024, when it’s not PC to say that, while acknowledging the darker aspects of his oligarchy and influence.

His story is a testament to the intricate dance of power, identity, and the indelible mark one man can leave on a beloved sport.

Timestamps:

00:00 Abramovich: From unknown to controversial football tycoon.

10:03 Canadian deputy PM Chryssia Freeland's book discusses Russian oligarchs, including Abramovich and Berezovsky. It mentions their deals and legal battles, with a spoiler about Berezovsky's fate.

10:40 A select few men gain immense wealth and political power in Yeltsin's Russia, controlling the country's economy and influencing political decisions through ownership of natural resources, media, and political influence.

20:39 Abramovich celebrates buying Chelsea with Evian water.

23:06 Various theories on Abramovich's purchase of Chelsea FC, including Putin's involvement and connections among oligarchs and media magnates in Moscow.

29:56 Learning how to own a football club. Exploring Europe, attending 3 games per day.

36:13 Abramovich values loyalty and shows it lavishly.

40:51 Putin suggests recruiting Abramovich for World Cup bid.

46:13 UK report links oligarch to Kremlin and Putin.

47:53 Abramovich's political and business manoeuvres regarding Chelsea, including potential sanctions and the sale of the club in light of the war.

52:59 Abramovich supports Jewish causes, including the Elad group, but faces criticism for promoting settler tourism.

01:00:01 Possible involvement in geopolitical hotspots, rehabilitation potential

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Kylian Mbappé: Made in Paris (and bound for Madrid)

21 mars 2024 | 66 min

Tracing Kylian Mbappé’s path from the suburbs of Paris to the pinnacle of global football. With two decades of living in Paris, Simon brings an insider's perspective to Mbappé's early life, highlighting the city's rich football culture that has nurtured talents like Pogba, Kanté, and Mahrez.

The Paris region is the biggest talent pool in global football, ahead of Buenos Aires. To understand the essence of Mbappé, it is necessary to understand the role of Parisian banlieues and artificial fields, which produce an unprecedented number of football stars. Yet, understanding the household that shaped his path is perhaps even more crucial.

In the heart of Bondy, Mbappé's upbringing unfolds—a tale of ambition, community, and family. His parents, Wilfrid and Fayza, pillars of their community, guided their son with a blend of strict education and football mentorship. From his father's coaching at AS Bondy, to listening to dressing-room tactical talks from age four, Mbappé's childhood was steeped in football.

Mbappé encountered broader social and political challenges, growing up as a black-Arab kid in the suburbs, against a backdrop of rising far-right sentiment in France. His early awareness of race and identity issues, alongside his family's careful navigation of fame and society’s expectations, paints a portrait of resilience and conscious ambition.

As Mbappé's talent becomes undeniable, every club wants to sign the kid. The family makes the very canny choice that he’ll start his career at Monaco, where there’s a fast track to the first team, and the club also employs teachers who can school him for the Baccalauréat, the French equivalent of A-levels. Doing ‘le bac’ is non-negotiable for his parents.

From his developmental years at Monaco to his record-breaking move to PSG, calculated decisions shaped his journey. Insights into Mbappé's personal growth, interactions with football legends, and his impact at the World Cup provide a glimpse into his evolution from a promising talent to a global football icon.

Timestamps:

00:00 Paris suburbs & footballing legacy.

08:48 Mbappé's diverse family, community pillars.

15:24 Mbappé meets Ronaldo, Zidane, awestruck by car.

19:03 1998 World Cup, racism controversy, young player.

21:54 Far right leader criticised nonwhite French players.

28:15 Mbappé faces rigid hierarchy, navigates his place in the dressing room.

31:31 Skilled footballer with versatility and tactical acumen.

38:36 Mbappé surprised by World Cup success, humbled by celebration.

44:49 Mixed reception in France for wealthy black celebrities.

48:31 Connecting with a frustrated young French generation.

53:34 Messi competes and pushing each other's performance.

01:00:08 Mbappé's potential to surpass football legends discussed.

01:03:18 Tune in next week for Roman Abramovich.

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Heroes & Humans of Football

Listen to the stories behind football's biggest names, hosted by Simon Kuper and Mehreen Khan.

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Football and the trenches: The 1914 Christmas truce

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The Brazilian Ronaldo and the 1998 World Cup Mystery

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Live with Roddy Doyle: Roy Keane, Chelsea, Ireland & more

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Who is Manchester United’s new manager Ruben Amorim?

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Eric Cantona: Art, violence, and the remaking of English football

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Megan Rapinoe: When soccer gets political

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Cristiano Ronaldo’s battle for longevity

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Cristiano Ronaldo: The alcoholic's son who became a workaholic

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Pogba: Brilliant, Betrayed, Banned.

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Maradona: Downfall

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Maradona: From the slum to world champion

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Johan Neeskens: A Silent Legend in Total Football

Mauricio Pochettino: A new face for US soccer

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The reign of Alex Ferguson

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The making of Alex Ferguson

Time stamps:

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Sepp Blatter & the FIFA corruption scandal (ft. the man himself)

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N'Golo Kanté: The humble superstar

The fall of José Mourinho

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The rise of Jose Mourinho

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Sven-Göran Eriksson: A life, a legacy, a tribute

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Erling Haaland: The Gen Z goal monster

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Erik Ten Hag: The doomed Dutchman of Manchester United?

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From Olympic Football to Financial Fair Play: Your Questions Answered

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Reflections on Heroes & Humans debut season

England's new manager Thomas Tuchel: the dark wellness fanatic

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Emma Hayes: The Londoner who led the US women's team to Olympic gold

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Answering Your Questions About Euro 2024

The New Faces of Spanish Football: Lamine Yamal & Nico Williams

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