In this episode host Mary Chapin Carpenter engages in a heartfelt discussion with John Darnielle, the multifaceted novelist and musician behind The Mountain Goats, about maintaining hope amidst adversity and the significance of creativity and service. They delve into the nuanced concept of hope, exploring its presence in everyday actions and how it can be a practice. Darnielle shares personal stories about his struggles, including his battle with tinnitus and the hope he found through music. The conversation also touches on the value of work and the importance of being useful in the world.