I was a Teenage Fundamentalist. An Exvangelical podcast.

When you leave church and/or the faith, what do you do about those who choose to stay? How do you navigate, maintain or even grieve those you leave behind? Troy and Brian share their own stories and give some advice on this very tricky part of deconstructing.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Troy chronicles the events immediately leading up to and after he lost his faith in Jesus. He describes the factors that influenced his decision and how it felt to be finally free of the mental gymnastics he needed to apply to remain a Christian.

Links:

• So long, and thanks for all the guilt! (Troy's deconversion blog)
• Internet Infidels » a drop of reason in a pool of confusion

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

We talk with Zenith Virago, a highly respected celebrant, educator, public speaker and author and self-proclaimed Deathwalker. She is the founder of the Natural Death Care Centre and was named Byron Bay's Citizen of the Year in 2021 in recognition of her important work.

Links:

• Zenith Virago, Deathwalker Training
• Natural Death Care Centre
• Zenith on TEDx

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

We talk with the hosts and producers of the Humanize Me podcast, Bart Campolo and John Wright, about leaving fundamentalist communities behind and whether it is possible to find new communities afterwards. Bart Campolo is an American humanist speaker, writer, former pastor, and son of Tony Campolo, the well-known Christian pastor and speaker. John Wright is a documentary filmmaker, freelance cinematographer, and media content producer whose work includes documentaries on various subjects, including the story of Bart's departure from the Christian faith.
 

Links:

• Humanize Me
• Bart Campolo
• John Wright – Jux Media
• Bart's first appearance on IWATF

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Rob Haskell was born to missionary parents, spending his childhood in Argentina. He later attended Bible College and seminary before reevaluating his beliefs and embracing critical thinking over religious orthodoxy in 2015. We speak with Rob about his new book, God of the Mind: an eXvangelical Journey, a personal exploration of the intellectual incoherencies of evangelical Christianity, the psychological pressures that keep the faithful in the fold, and the price that honest seekers must pay in order to maintain its tenets.
 

Links:

• Rob Haskell's website
• God of the Mind: An eXvangelical Journey : Amazon.com.au

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Here it is! The 100th episode! Brian and Troy continue with their own deconstruction stories and share what life was like after having left church...and Jesus. Did they completely fall apart? Did they return to their sin like a dog to its vomit? Tune in and find out.

Links:

• So long, and thanks for all the guilt! (Troy's deconversion blog)
• Internet Infidels » a drop of reason in a pool of confusion
• Religion for Atheists: A non-believer's guide to the uses of religion

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

If there's one religious sounding label that Troy is willing to wear, it's 'Buddhist'. In this episode we speak with Ted Meissner, the Executive Director of the Secular Buddhist Association, and the host of The Secular Buddhist Podcast. Ted explains Secular Buddhism and how it contrasts with the more traditional forms of Buddhism.

Ted's links:

• Secular Buddhist Association
• The Secular Buddhist Podcast
• The Mindfulness Network
• Mindfulness-based stress reduction - Wikipedia

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In this episode, we explore Progressive/Reformed Judaism with Michel Laloum, Cantor at Temple Beth Israel Synagogue in Melbourne, Australia. He was ordained as a Cantor at the Progressive Hebrew Union College – Jewish Institute of Religion and completed Rabbinic studies at the Academy for Jewish Religion, Jewish Theological Seminary and New York University.

• Temple Beth Israel Melbourne
• World Union for Progressive Judaism

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Tim Costello is an Australian social justice advocate, community leader, and a prominent figure in the Christian faith, albeit a progressive form. He is known in Australia for his public commentary on political and ethical matters, often offering a perspective informed by his Christian faith and commitment to social justice. In this episode we talk to Tim about his commitment to his faith, and what that looks like now, having left fundamentalism decades ago.

Tim's links:

• Tim Costello - Wikipedia
• Tim Costello/ X (twitter.com)

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In this episode, we talk with Dr Eben Alexander, an American neurosurgeon and author. In 2008, he suffered a coma caused by a rare and mysterious bacterial meningo-encephalitis of unknown causes. We talk with him about his own near-death experience and his book, Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife.

Dr Alexander's links:

• Eben Alexander
• Division of Perceptual Studies - University of Virginia School of Medicine
• Home - Scientific and Medical Network
• Home - The Galileo Commission
• Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies
• Inner Sanctum Center
• Sacred Acoustics

After our recording, we came upon three articles in particular that make some serious allegations against Dr Alexander. One is from Esquire Magazine and another from writer, Sam Harris. These were both quite hostile. The third is from the Harvard Crimson, and while it is certainly not hostile, it does echo many of the allegations made in the Esquire article.

• Dr. Eben Alexander Proof of Heaven Investigation (esquire.com)
• This Must be Heaven by Sam Harris
• To Do No Harm | The Harvard Crimson (thecrimson.com)

We contacted Dr Alexander about these articles and the allegations they make, and his assistant replied with the following links:

• First, Robert Mays, an NDE researcher and longtime leader of IANDS.org, wrote a thorough article criticizing the journalism of Esquire's author: JNDS_ Winter 2016 2PP.indd (unt.edu)
• A peer-reviewed article published in the Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease (flagship journal for physicians in neurology & psychology), by Bruce Greyson et al. It is about Eben's personal case, from the standpoint of a lifelong NDE researcher and colleagues: nmd50598 744..747 (virginia.edu) and more about the professors in the department, so you know their calibre of work and background: Faculty and Staff - Division of Perceptual Studies (virginia.edu)
• A reply from Eben during another interview, re: Sam Harris' allegations: Eben Alexander answers skeptics' criticisms (iands.org)
• A valuable set of essays about consciousness, several of which cite Eben's case study in their work: Essay Contest - Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies. Start with the winning entry by Jeff Mishlove and then peruse other topics.

--

Deconversion Therapy Podcast

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

We recently stumbled upon a podcast we thought you'd love. Sexvangelicals is a sexual health podcast and education platform with the mission to support relationships in reclaiming sexuality following adverse religious experiences. This is one of their episodes, The Sex Ed We Wish We Had: Consent, Part 1 of 2. We hope you enjoy it.

If you want to connect with Sexvangelicals then find them here:

• Sexvangelicals (website)
• Sexvangelicals (podcast)

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

We talk with Ani Zonneveld about Progressive Islam and the life she lives as a Progressive Muslim. Ani is a writer, singer/songwriter, and founder & President of Muslims for Progressive Values, an international human rights organization that advocates for social justice and equality for all, a strong supporter of freedom of expression and of conscience, women’s rights and as an ally, LGBTQ rights. 

--

Deconversion Therapy Podcast

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In this episode, we talk with writer Bernard Warnick about humanity's obsession with certainty and ask, is certainty attainable? Bernard spent nineteen years as a judge of the trial division and later the Appeal Division of the Family Court of Australia before retiring from the bench in 2010. He developed a deep interest in the reasoning process and researched the works of neurobiologists, cognitive scientists, philosophers, linguists and other thinkers for ten years, culminating in his book, Illusions of Certainty | thoughts about thinking.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

We're back for Season 5! In this episode we review the highlights of Season 4, let you know about the changes we've made and where the podcast is heading in 2024.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Brian and Troy used to be loyal Christian megachurch leaders. They’re not anymore. Thispodcast explores life after Fundamentalism.

Shortlisted for the 2022 Australian Podcast Awards.

Find out more at iwasateenagefundamentalist.com/ and https://linktr.ee/iwatf

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Emily John Garcés is an artist, poet, ex-missionary with YWAM, all-round creative enthusiast, and author of the memoir, Hitchhiking with Drunken Nuns. In this final episode of Season 4, we speak with Emily about her life as a YWAM missionary in Argentina and the Netherlands, and her unique perspective on the world we share. Despite her fundamentalist past, Emily has a positive view of the world and describes her use of art as a way of 'bridging what cannot be seen with the visible world'. 

Emily's links:

• Emily on Facebook
• Hitchhiking with Drunken Nuns
• The Quiet Woman

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Maggie Rowe is an author, writer, director, & producer. Her memoir, Sin Bravely: A Memoir of Spiritual Disobedience, was named to NPR's Best Books of 2017. In this episode, we speak to Maggie about her childhood where she describes being tormented by the fear of Hell and not being truly saved. At 19 years old she admitted herself to an 'evangelical psychiatric institution' where she found an unlikely ally who encouraged her to break free of the fears that held her back, and to go forth and 'sin bravely'.

Maggie's links:

Maggie Rowe's website

Sin Bravely: A Memoir of Spiritual Disobedience

Easy Street: A Story of Redemption from Myself

If this episode raised issues or concerns for you or someone near to you, please contact Lifeline Australia - 13 11 14 - Crisis Support.

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Van Badham is an Australian playwright, novelist, journalist and activist who writes regularly for the Guardian. In this episode we speak with Van about her 2021 book QAnon and On: A Short and Shocking History of Internet Conspiracy Cults in which she investigates who is behind the internet cult and how it often intertwines with the world of Evangelical/Fundamentalist Christianity. She also tells about her year 'undercover' at Hillsong in Sydney.

Van's links:

• Van Badham - Wikipedia
• QAnon and On
• QAnon | The Guardian
• The ‘prosperity doctrine’ and neoliberal Jesusing | The Guardian

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

We talk with Janice Selbie, a former fundamentalist Evangelical Christian of over 40 years and now a counsellor and specialist in the area of religious trauma. Janice shares her own story and the work she does with others in helping heal the pain caused by religious trauma. This is the first of a two-part episode we did with Janice. You can find part two on Janice's The Divorcing Religion Podcast.

In this episode, Janice referenced Steven Hassan's BITE Model of Authoritarian Control.

You can connect with Janice via these links:

• Religious Trauma Syndrome Therapy | DivorcingReligion
• The Divorcing Religion Podcast
• Conference on Religious Trauma (CORT)
• Janice on YouTube
• Janice on Instagram

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

We talk with April Ajoy, a well-known viral TikToker, YouTuber and podcaster. She describes herself as a “recovering conservative, humorously detoxing religion.” Raised as a pastor's kid, April was deep in Evangelicalism to the point of working for The 700 Club and singing her original song, America Say Jesus on The Jim Bakker Show. While deconstructing from fundamentalism, she walked away from her Christian nationalist beliefs and began to make irreverent and funny videos lampooning modern Evangelical culture and church life. 

You can connect with April on:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/aprilajoyr 
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@aprilajoy 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aprilajoy 

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Brian & Troy take a look at how divorce is presented in the New Testament and how the Church has handled it over the last 2000 years. Our hosts also reflect on their own experience and ask, do Jesus and the Bible really offer adequate guidance for the 21st century. Spoiler alert, no.

The resources suggested in this episode are:

• Christian views on divorce - Wikipedia
• A Theology of Divorce – Religion Online
• Ep #69 - Troy Story II: Leaving My Marriage...and Church
• Ep #75 - Brian Walks Away from his Marriage

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Dan Barker served as an evangelical Christian preacher and composer for 19 years before leaving Christianity in 1984. He and his wife Annie Laurie Gaylor are the current co-presidents of the Freedom from Religion Foundation, and he is co-founder of The Clergy Project. In this fascinating chat, he shares his journey out of faith and why he identifies as an Atheist today. 

You can connect with Dan and his work at:

• Freethought Radio Podcast
• Freedom From Religion Foundation - Freedom From Religion Foundation
• The Clergy Project
• Dan Barker: Books

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Catherine Quiring describes herself as a reformed people-pleaser, Exvangelical and an aspiring advocate for anti-oppressive spirituality. She is a licensed Mental Health Counsellor, and Self-Trust Coach. Catherine tells Brian and Troy why she believes the Evangelical god is a narcissist and that the symptoms experienced by those who have experienced covert narcissistic abuse are extremely similar to those experienced in high-control religious settings.

You can connect with Catherine via:

• Her website: www.cqcounseling.com 
• Instagram: @catherinequiring
• Facebook: @cqcounseling

The book she referenced in this episode was Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment : Heimlich, Janet

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Picking up where he left off in Episode 79 - Troy Deals With His Religious Trauma in Korea, Troy journeys to Singapore in search of his next adventure. In this episode, he continues to unsuccessfully park his religious trauma and finds himself in a very glamourous scene in Singapore. He falls hard for a Chinese woman and they return to Australia to start a new life, but Troy is soon confronted by his religious baggage.

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

After Troy and Brian appeared on Stephen's podcast, Cult Hackers back in 2021, Stephen now brings his expertise to talk about cults from an organisational psychology perspective. He shares how organisational models help us understand cult leadership, coercive control dynamics and why people join and stay.

You can find Stephen's podcast here: Cult Hackers and his website here: culthackers.com 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Krispin and D.L. Mayfield are a husband-and-wife team and hosts of the Prophetic Imagination Station. Both were missionaries and published Christian writers who have recently been very public about their deconversion from Christianity. Brian and Troy talk with them about their deconversion journey and its impact on their careers and marriage.

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Marc Fennell is an award-winning Australian journalist and documentary maker who was once a teenage fundamentalist...but he claims he was not a very good one. He has just released a documentary about Australian Pentecostalism called The Kingdom where he confronts his own past spent in church. Brian & Troy talk with Marc about why he left and why he’s remained largely silent about his religious past until now.

You can learn all about Marc here: marcfennell.com

The Kingdom is available to stream in Australia here and will be available to international audiences soon.

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Picking up where he left off in Episode 64 - Troy Story II, Troy left the Church & his Christian marriage and headed off to live & work in South Korea. In this episode, he recounts his largely unsuccessful attempts to deal with his religious trauma by parking his religious issues and indulging in the maladaptive coping strategies of casual sex and alcohol abuse.

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Ross Blocher and Carrie Poppy have a hugely popular podcast where they join religions, undergo alternative medical treatments, and hunt for ghost, goblins, demons, and deities...so you don't have to! If it has an extraordinary claim attached to it, they'll check it out and report on it. In this episode, Brian and Troy talk with them about their teenage fundamentalism and what they have discovered about some of the wild claims of Christianity and other religions. 

You can connect with Ross and Carrie through their website: ohnopodcast.com and their podcast: Oh No, Ross and Carrie.

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Brian and Troy used to be loyal Christian megachurch leaders. They’re not anymore. This honest and often hilarious podcast peeks behind the curtain at the weird, the worrying, and sometimes traumatic world of Evangelicals & Pentecostals.

Shortlisted for the 2022 Australian Podcast Awards.

Find out more at iwasateenagefundamentalist.com/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Clare Heath-McIvor is an exvangelical blogger and podcaster who has been operating under the pseudonym 'Kit Kennedy' since a dramatic and shunning-esque exit from her pastor father's church in 2016. In 2022, she and her ex-husband (a gay conversion therapy survivor) became whistleblowers for a 60 Minutes Australia political and religious expose on her father's City Builders Church and its tactics in Australian conservative politics. 

Trigger warning: This episode touches on issues concerning depression and suicide. If you are in Australia and require support, please reach out to 1800RESPECT by phone or online at www.1800respect.org.au/ or Lifeline on 13 11 14.

• 60 Minutes Australia - Praying For Power: Caring church or crazy cult
• The Age Newspaper #1 - Liberal Party Candidate Agent for Ultra-Conservative Church, Family Says
• #2 - Speaking in Tongues, Exorcisms and Control: Life in City Builders
• #3 - Inside City Builders, the Pentecostal Sect with Lofty Political Goals
• #4 - Ultra-Conservative Candidate won’t sit in the party room if elected 
• #5 - Shame on you: Liberal Party figure caught using fake 007 pics and fake identity for dirty tricks

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Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Following on from Episode 072 Was Keith Green a Cult Leader?, we interview Sharon Madere. She was 'led to the Lord' by Keith and experienced the 'baptism in the Holy Spirit' experience with Keith in the 1970s. She lived at the Last Days Ministries commune in California and later in Texas in the 1980s. In this episode, Sharon tells her stories and claims Keith Green arranged her teenage marriage to Martin Bennett, one of the three elders of LDM. 

Correction: In this episode, Sharon says she remained with LDM until 1985. She wishes to correct this and state she stayed with LDM until early-1987.

You can find their podcast here: Feet of Clay—Confessions of the Cult Sisters and follow Tracey & Sharon on Instagram. 

Melody Green's biography of Keith Green and memoir of life at Last Days Ministry, No Compromise is available here.

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Following on from Episode 53 - The Cairns Christ, Brian recounts the breakdown of his marriage and the end of his faith in Jesus. Ladies and gentlemen, Brian has left the building. 

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

No one had as profound an impact on Troy's deconstruction as Dr Bart D. Ehrman, the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. An expert on the New Testament and the history of Early Christianity, he has written or edited thirty books, numerous scholarly articles, and dozens of book reviews. Six of his books have been on the New York Times Bestseller list. Brian and Troy talk to Bart about his own teenage fundamentalism and his upcoming book, Armageddon: What the Bible really says about the end. In this conversation, Bart delves into the most misunderstood—and possibly the most dangerous—book of the Bible, Revelation. 

You can connect with Bart via his blog: The Bart Ehrman Blog, his website: Bart D. Ehrman, and his podcast: Misquoting Jesus. 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Shane Clifton taught Theology and Ethics at one of Australia's leading Pentecostal Bible Colleges from 1999 to 2018. During this time Shane had an accident that left him with a C5 spinal cord injury (quadriplegia) which radically altered his life and his faith. After a lengthy and traumatic fight over academic freedom and his support for LGBTQI+ inclusion in the church, he left the college and his Pentecostal denomination. Shane is today an honorary associate at the Centre for Research Development and Policy at the University of Sydney and Director, Policy with the Australian Royal Commission into Violence, Abuse, Neglect and Exploitation against People with Disability.

You can connect with Shane via his blog: Shane Clifton – Riding the current.

---

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Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Keith Green was one of CCM’s most revered and loved music superstars of the 1970s and 80s. Spoiler alert! Tracey Phalen thinks he was a cult leader! She was a member of Keith and Melody Green's Last Days Ministries in the 1980s. She joined as a teenage fundamentalist and left after five years of living and serving on the Texas ranch. In this episode, Tracey shares her story and helps Brian and Troy deconstruct Keith Green and Last Days Ministries.

You can find their podcast here: Feet of Clay—Confessions of the Cult Sisters and follow Tracey & Sharon on Instagram. 

Melody Green's biography of Keith Green and memoir of life at Last Days Ministry, No Compromise is available here.

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In this first episode of Season 4, Brian & Troy unpack some of the most problematic and ridiculous aspects of the doctrine of eternal torment, aka Hell. They also give some suggestions on how to overcome your fear of Hell.

The resources suggested in this episode are:

Christian

• That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, and Universal Salvation: Hart, David Bentley
• Grace Saves All: Christianity and Universal Salvation Podcast
• Love Wins: At the Heart of Life’s Big Questions : Bell, Rob

Post-Christian

• Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife : Ehrman, Bart D
• Bart Ehrman on the Humanize Me Podcast
• Am I Going to Hell?: Bart Ehrman

--

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Elgen Strait is the host of Falling Out, a podcast about and for people who grew-up in, and later left, abusive cults. Elgen was born and raised in the Unification Church, a.k.a. the Moonies. Elgen invited Troy & Brian on to his special Christmas episode, where they swapped stories and examined the similarities and differences between the Pentes and the Moonies. They also talked about how both groups celebrate Christmas and some of the wackier beliefs.

You can find Elgen's podcast here: https://pod.link/1550448436 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

This is it, the end of Season 3! Troy & Brian reflect on 2022 and some of the milestone episodes they released. They also field listener questions from social media and reveal what they have planned for Season 4 in 2023.

In this episode, Brian suggested the following from one of his favourite podcasts, Oh No, Ross and Carrie.

• How the Ross Stole Christmas: Jesus’ Birth Narrative Edition:  https://pod.link/425328515/episode/6eef1d266ef352aba825b9db256e4f72 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

David Ames is an American secular humanist who hosts a podcast promoting the idea of 'secular grace' after deconstruction and deconversion. An Assemblies of God Bible College graduate and a former AOG youth leader, David now gives a platform to others to tell their stories of transition from a life-altering faith to doubt to deconstruction to deconversion.

David's Graceful Atheist Podcast is available here: https://pod.link/1456800368 and find his episode with us here: https://pod.link/1456800368/episode/c24f38abd34de28363b8ac477c6dfbc8

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

This is a special crossover episode with Molly & Rachael of the Cheers to Leaving Podcast. They are both children of the house church movement, purity culture survivors, ex-Jesus Freaks and now Exvangelical podcast hosts. Join us as we swap stories and compare scars.

Trigger warning: This episode touches on issues concerning depression and self-harm. If you are in Australia and require support, please reach out to 1800RESPECT by phone or online at www.1800respect.org.au/ or Lifeline on 13 11 14.

For part 2 of this episode, please check out their podcast here: https://pod.link/1568302029 

All their links are here: https://linktr.ee/cheerstoleaving 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

When journeying through the Progressive Christian scene, Brian was deeply impacted and influenced by Chrisitan Anarchist, Dave Andrews. Dave is particularly interested in radical spirituality, incarnational community and the dynamics of personal and social transformation. He is also the author of many books and articles. In this chat, Dave shares how he was excommunicated from YWAM in the ealry-1970s and about the interfaith work he did with Muslims in Asia.

Trigger warning: This episode contains a lot of Christian phrases and lingo that may trouble some listeners.
This episode also touches on issues concerning depression and self-harm. If you are in Australia and require support, please reach out to 1800RESPECT by phone or online at www.1800respect.org.au/ or Lifeline on 13 11 14.

You can connect with Dave Andrews via his website: http://daveandrews.com.au/ 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Tara Jean is the creator and host of one of Troy and Brian's favourite podcasts, Heaven Bent. She has just released Season 3 which is a mix of religious history and true crime. She gives a behind the scenes look at the new season and a sneak peek into Season 4. She chatted here back on Episode 22 where she talked about the Toronto Blessing.

Find Heaven Bent here: https://frequencypodcastnetwork.com/podcasts/heaven-bent/ 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Following on from our previous episode, Troy Story, Troy recounts leaving his Christian marriage and his final exit from Church and Evangelicalism. It's a really heavy episode, so be warned.

Trigger warning: This episode touches on issues concerning depression and suicide. If you are in Australia and require support, please reach out to 1800RESPECT by phone or online at www.1800respect.org.au/ or Lifeline on 13 11 14.

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In this episode, Troy continues to recount his journey away from Pentecostalism. He remembers packing up his church-plant and joining a self-proclaimed post-modern inner-city Church of Christ.

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In this episode, Brian & Troy catch up with Andrew, a fellow traveller from their time at Great Big AOG. Andrew recounts his struggles being deep in the closet at church and how he later came to accept his sexuality and then live openly as a gay man. 

Trigger warning: This episode touches on issues concerning depression and suicide. If you are in Australia and require support, please reach out to 1800RESPECT by phone or online at www.1800respect.org.au/ or Lifeline on 13 11 14.

ABBI serves individuals, churches, denominations, leaders and religious organizations in a respectful and non-confrontational way along their journey to understand LGBTI people, their community, and relationships. Their website is here: www.abbi.org.au

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Bree was born into Pentecostalism. She claims to have filled her Christian Bingo card by doing most things a good Christian girl should do, including marrying a pastor's son and being a superstar on the overhead projector. She remembers what it was like as a girl in a culty Word of Faith church and then later as a woman in Great Big CCC (aka c3).

Bree's blog is found here: http://breemorel.com/ 

---

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Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

This is a special crossover episode with Dr Clint Heacock of the Mindshift Podcast. Clint was a teenage fundamentalist, pastor, Bible College teacher, and completed a PhD on the Book of Ezekiel and preaching. We ask him how he came to jettison his Christian faith after being so dedicated for so many decades.

For part 2 of this episode, please check out Clint's podcast here: https://mindshiftpodcast.co.uk/?p=3315 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Brian & Troy do a deeper dive into the ideas of Spiritual Warfare. This is the Pentecostal and Charismatic Christian belief that society and the broader world is controlled by Satan and his demon hordes and that these can be defeated by prayer. 

The News.com.au article mentioned in this episode is found here: https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/news/gold-coast-mayor-tom-tates-spiritual-adviser-says-the-home-of-the-arts-had-a-demonic-stronghold/news-story/021bd0254312bf15d1ee15ab1d4b69a3 

We invite you to support the podcast on Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/IWATF 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Brian McLaren was a Charismatic Evangelical pastor for twenty-four years. Now he's an author, activist, public theologian, and arguably the poster boy for Progressive Christians everywhere. In this episode, Troy and Brian chat with Brian McLaren about his new book, Do I Stay Christian? which gives reasons why people should stay but also why people should leave. You'll really enjoy this interview regardless of how you now define your spirituality (or lack thereof).

You can find Brian's book here: https://www.amazon.com.au/Do-Stay-Christian-Disappointed-Disillusioned/dp/1250262798 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Troy recounts how his desire to find out about the history of the Revival Centres/ Revival Fellowship and the evolution of their beliefs turned into an obsession that not only took him to university, but also helped bring the truth about the cult to others damaged by them.

If you would like to explore the research and counter-Revival Centre work, see the links below:

• http://revivalprophecy.blogspot.com/ 
• https://revivalcentresblog.wordpress.com/ 
• http://revival.aimoo.com/ 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Well-known Australian journalist Tom Tilley has interviewed some of the most influential people in the world. What was not so well-known until recently was that Tom grew up as the oldest son of a Pentecostal pastor. In this episode, Troy and Brian chat with Tom about his memoir, Speaking in Tongues, and how his Pentecostal upbringing shapes who he is now.

You can find Tom's book here: https://www.harpercollins.com.au/9780733341021/speaking-in-tongues/ 

If you would like to explore the research and counter-Revival Centre work, see the links below:

• http://revival.aimoo.com/ 
• https://revivalcentresblog.wordpress.com/ 
• http://revivalprophecy.blogspot.com/ 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Brian and Troy talk with Rachel Bernstein, a licensed therapist who specialises in cult intervention and re-acclimation. She is the host and producer of the podcast IndoctriNation which explores cults, manipulators, and protecting yourself from systems of control.

This episode is the second of a crossover we did with Rachel. You can hear her interviewing us on her podcast here: https://www.podpage.com/indoctrination/ You can also connect with Rachel here: https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/ 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Brian and Troy chat with Phil Drysdale about Deconstruction, which he defines as the process of questioning one’s core foundational beliefs and upon finding these are flawed, discarding them. Phil asserts that deconstruction most often comes from a place of passionate faith where religious questions go unanswered and where people are forced to explore new beliefs.

You can connect with Phil at PhilDrysdale.com and on Instagram @PhilDrysdale. 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In this episode, Brian continues to recount his post-Pentecostal journey. He remembers the joys and pains at the start of his deconstruction process while living in Cairns in Australia's far north.

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Dr Ray is an atheist psychologist and author who specialises in the secular treatment of religion-induced trauma. He founded the non-profit organisations Recovering from Religion and the Secular Therapy Project. He is also a regular speaker at the Conference on Religious Trauma. Most importantly, he is the current High Priest of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

As Brian did in Episode 45, Troy recounts his short-lived time in the Baptist Union. It was here that he started a homegroup made up of a few Pentecostal refugees and reengaged the pop culture around him.

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In Episode 49, Brian & Troy spoke with best-selling Evangelical author, Philip Yancey. In this episode, they reflect on that conversation and what it brought up for them. What do Exvangelicals do about Evangelicals who are really good people? You may not agree with the conclusions the hosts reach, but hopefully you resonate with their honesty.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Brian & Troy talk with best-selling Evangelical author, Philip Yancey about his memoir, 'Where the Light Fell', that chronicles his time growing up fundamentalist. They also talk with Philip about how his books impacted them as they journeyed out of fundamentalism into more moderate versions of Christianity in the late-90s.

You can find Philip's new book here: https://www.amazon.com.au/Where-Light-Fell-Philip-Yancey/dp/0593238508/ 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

If there's one thing that characterises megachurches in Australia and around the world, it's nepotism. Brian & Troy cite some tangible examples of nepotism in the Australian Christian Churches and Hillsong and discuss why this needs to change and what members can do about it.

Note: It is this New York Post article that reported Michael Guglielmucci, 'and his spouse, or “Team Gug,” should resign their roles at his father Danny’s church, Edge Church International, and sell their home and relocate to Port Adelaide.' 

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In this special episode, Brian & Troy discuss the recent moral allegations brought against Brian Houston of Hillsong, by the online publication Crikey. 

The Crikey article we quote is here: https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/03/18/brian-houston-revelations-hillsong/ 

Warning: This episode touches on issues concerning sexual misconduct and sexual harassment. If you are in Australia and require support, please reach out to 1800RESPECT by phone or online at www.1800respect.org.au/ or Lifeline on 13 11 14.

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Elle Hardy is an accomplished Australian journalist who wrote Beyond Belief: How Pentecostal Christianity is taking over the world. Brian and Troy chat with Elle about how and why she undertook this project and what she discovered about the global Pentecostal phenomenon.

You can find her book at all the usual places online and access Elle's website here: https://www.hurstpublishers.com/book/beyond-belief/ 

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Brian journeys away from Pentecostalism and fundamentalism to a more moderate Baptist space. He remembers being pulled back into Pentecostalism and even trying it back on for size, only to find it no longer fit.

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In this second of two episodes, we continue our chat with Frank Schaeffer, author and son of the late theologian and Evangelical author, Francis Schaeffer. While Frank was once a teenage fundamentalist, he now describes himself as an atheist who believes in God. Frank talks about his new book, Fall in Love, Have Children, Stay Put, Save the Planet, Be Happy, a well-researched and entertaining bridge to living happier lives and to a better future.

You can access Frank's website here: https://www.frankschaeffer.com/ and his podcast here: https://pod.link/1570357787

---

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In this first of two episodes, we talk with Frank Schaeffer, author and son of the late theologian and Evangelical author, Francis Schaeffer. While Frank was once a teenage fundamentalist, he now describes himself as an atheist who believes in God. Frank tells his back story and how he went from a founding member of the Religious Right to one of its harshest critics.

You can access Frank's website here: https://www.frankschaeffer.com/ and his podcast here: https://pod.link/1570357787

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

This first episode for Season 3 comes out swinging as Brian and Troy discuss the Hillsong news that Brian Houston has stepped down as its Global Senior Pastor. They then go for a walk down memory lane, discussing Christian bookstores and what they sell.

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In this final episode for Season 2, B&T take questions from podcast listeners and reflect on the podcast so far.

--

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In this crossover episode, B&T are interviewed by the co-hosts of the podcast, What Should I Think About..? They are asked, "What is Evangelicalism? Is it a cult? What do Pentecostals believe? Why do they speak in tongues?" They also discussed the rise of megachurches and in particular Hillsong, its history, beliefs and methods of recruitment.  

You can access the very interesting WSITA..? podcast here: https://pod.link/1540824671 

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

B&T talk with Geoff Bullock, one of the founding pastors of Hills Christian Life Centre, which later became Hillsong. He talks frankly about how and why he left Hillsong in 1995, and his journey since then.

Geoff Bullock was appointed as the church's worship pastor and was the convenor of the annual Hillsong conference from 1987 to 1995. He was also a creative and driving force behind Hillsong's first hit albums and helped to change the face of Christian worship music globally. 

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

The time has come...at last! Tune in to hear B&T trigger like MOFOs and tell how they finally left Great Big AOG.

This episode makes reference to "The Toronto Blessing" which was discussed in Episode 22: https://iwasateenagefundamentalist.podbean.com/e/episode-022-heaven-bent-with-tara-jean-stevens/ 

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

T comes back from Country Town AOG and B has risen in the ranks of the Great Big AOG youth group. T doesn't like what he sees and B is not so sure about T.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

C was in full-time paid ministry at Christian City Church (now known as c3) in the mid to late-90s. In this episode she shares how she joined, the culture of the organisation, and why she eventually walked away.

--

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In this episode, T recounts his time in formal ministry as the youth pastor of Country Town AOG. Spoiler alert: it didn't go too well.

--

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

This is the second half of our time with Bart Campolo, a secular community builder, counsellor and writer who serves as the Humanist Chaplain at the University of Cincinnati. He is the son of Evangelical celebrity preacher and author, Tony Campolo, with whom he made a movie about leaving Evangelical Christianity.

You can connect with Bart at bartcampolo.org/ and find his podcast, Humanize Me on all good platforms. You can stream Leaving My Father's Faith here: https://campolofilm.com/ 

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Bart Campolo is a secular community builder, counsellor and writer who serves as the Humanist Chaplain at the University of Cincinnati. He is the son of Evangelical celebrity preacher and author, Tony Campolo, with whom he made a movie about leaving Evangelical Christianity.

You can connect with Bart at bartcampolo.org/ and find his podcast, Humanize Me on all good platforms. You can stream Leaving My Father's Faith here: https://campolofilm.com/ 

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In this episode, T goes deeper into a story he told in Episode 26 and shares how he was rejected by a very high profile family at Great Big AOG because he didn't have enough faith to be 'comfortable'. 

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Anji Barker has 30 years experience in neighbourhood based community work in poor urban communities in Australia, Thailand and the UK. In this episode, she shares her own story of leaving fundamentalism and why she's happy to still call herself a 'follower of Jesus'.

You can connect with Anj at https://newbigintrust.uk/ and find her book, Missionary Not Just A Position on Amazon.

--

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Heaven was the ultimate reward that B&T looked forward to as teenage fundamentalists. In this episode, they look back and remember what they believed about this final destination. And just like Heaven, you won't want to miss this episode.

The two books recommended in this episode are:

• Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife : Ehrman, Bart D.
• Beyond: How Humankind Thinks About Heaven eBook : Wolff, Catherine

--

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

B&T remember all the hours they gave to the church as volunteers and how some in the Church didn't always handle donations of time and money in the most ethical manner. 

Warning: This episode briefly touches on rape and sexual abuse. If you are in Australia and require support, please reach out to 1800RESPECT by phone or online at www.1800respect.org.au/ or Lifeline on 13 11 14.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Fiona Newton, former Teenage Fundamentalist and co-author of the petition to stop Hillsong evangelising in public schools, joins B&T to tell about her own fundy past and why she thinks that Hillsong deserves no place in the public education system.

You can sign Fiona's Change.org petition here: https://www.change.org/p/federal-minister-for-education-hillsong-church-is-trying-to-proselytise-their-religion-in-australian-schools-we-say-no and connect to her Facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/keephillsongoutofourschools/   

--

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

As Pentecostals, both B&T crossed paths with sexual predators in church. This episode recalls those meetings and also some of the scandals that plagued Pentecostalism in recent years.

The articles mentioned in this episode are:

• Findings released into Australian Christian Churches and affiliated Pentecostal churches
• Royal Commission sex abuse inquiry censures Hillsong head Brian Houston
• Assemblies of God leaders alleged to have abused children
• Hillsong leader Brian Houston was charged over the concealment of alleged child sex offences

Warning: This episode touches on issues concerning rape, sexual abuse and the sexual abuse of minors. If you are in Australia and require support, please reach out to 1800RESPECT by phone or online at www.1800respect.org.au/ or Lifeline on 13 11 14.

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

As you might have guessed, dating and marriage within Fundamentalism weren't often egalitarian and were usually controlled by the pastors and leaders. 

Warning: This episode touches on issues concerning rape and domestic violence. If you are in Australia and require support, please reach out to Rape and Domestic Violence Services via: https://www.rape-dvservices.org.au/ or Lifeline on 13 11 14.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Dr Josie McSkimming, author of Leaving Christian Fundamentalism and the Reconstruction of Identity, shares her own story as a teenage fundamentalist within Sydney Anglicanism and her ongoing clinical work with those leaving Fundamentalist Christianity. To contact Josie, please visit her website: https://mcskimming.com.au/ 

--

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Did B&T ever see a real and verifiable miracle while in the Pentecostal scene? Listen in to find out.

--

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

B&T discuss the prevalence of narcissists and psychopaths in Pentecostalism and their experiences with these kinds of people. They also ask why the church attracts these people and if Pentecostalism helps to create them.

Warning: This episode touches on issues concerning psychological abuse. If you are in Australia and require support, please reach out to Lifeline on 13 11 14.

The articles mentioned in this episode:

• Narcissistic Personality Disorder
• 7 Characteristics of the Modern Psychopath

--

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Tara Jean Stevens, the host of the amazing Heaven Bent podcast shares her own history as a teenage fundamentalist and some of the backstories behind her two podcast seasons on the Toronto Blessing and Bethel Church.

--

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

We kick-off Season 2 by remembering our favourite CCM artists and a few songs. We invite you to clap along at home.
The links to the songs mentioned in this episode are:

• Living in Laodicea - https://youtu.be/g_8Pas8qoWc 
• Asleep in the Light - https://youtu.be/7XeEL0mRBHo 
• Creed - https://youtu.be/jy4JA5uStB0 
• Maranooka - https://youtu.be/7f-JdFPazMo 

--

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

B&T take questions from podcast listeners and reflect on Season 1.

--

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

B&T talk about how they saw the supposed Son of God as Pentecostals, and their 'relationship' with this first-century Jew.

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Ultimately, fundamentalist Christianity really centres around God. In this episode, B&T look back on how they saw God as good Pentecostals.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

B&T have ‘a word’ for you as they share their stories around the use of prophecy in their time as Pentecostals.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

"Take your partner by the hand, speak in tongues and understand."  - Debbie Harry

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

It isn't enough to be a Teenage Fundamentalist yourself, Pentecostals are expected to bring others into the fold. In this episode, B&T remember their times as evangelists and short-term missionaries. 

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

B&T remember their time believing the unique claims of the Faith Movement/ prosperity gospel (Spoiler Alert: it didn’t deliver and it messed them up a bit).

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Transcript of this episode is here.

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In part three of this special three-part episode, we interview former AOG evangelist/pastor and now #GayAmbassador, Anthony Venn-Brown.  

TRIGGER WARNING: If you find that some of the material in this episode disturbing, we encourage you to talk with a close friend who will understand or contact your local help/crisis/support telephone line. 

• Lifeline Australia https://www.lifeline.org.au/ 
• Beyond Blue https://www.beyondblue.org.au/ 
• LGBT https://qlife.org.au/ 

“A Life of Unlearning – a preacher’s struggle with his homosexuality” is available at all online booksellers. Reviews, endorsements, readers’ comments here: www.ALifeOfUnlearning.com 

Resources and further information about Anthony and his organisation Ambassadors & Bridge Builders International are here:

• www.abbi.org.au
• https://www.facebook.com/abbi.org.au,
• https://www.facebook.com/anthonyvennbrown
• Twitter: @gayambassador
• Instagram: @gayambassador

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

Want more? Check out our exclusive Patreon episodes here.

Join the conversation and connect with other listeners here.

All our links are here. 

Transcript of this episode is here.

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In part two of this special three-part episode, we interview former AOG evangelist/pastor and now #GayAmbassador, Anthony Venn-Brown.  

TRIGGER WARNING: If you find that some of the material in this episode disturbing, we encourage you to talk with a close friend who will understand or contact your local help/crisis/support telephone line. 

• Lifeline Australia https://www.lifeline.org.au/ 
• Beyond Blue https://www.beyondblue.org.au/ 
• LGBT https://qlife.org.au/ 

“A Life of Unlearning – a preacher’s struggle with his homosexuality” is available at all online booksellers. Reviews, endorsements, readers’ comments here: www.ALifeOfUnlearning.com 

Resources and further information about Anthony and his organisation Ambassadors & Bridge Builders International are here:

• www.abbi.org.au
• https://www.facebook.com/abbi.org.au,
• https://www.facebook.com/anthonyvennbrown
• Twitter: @gayambassador
• Instagram: @gayambassador

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

Want more? Check out our exclusive Patreon episodes here.

Join the conversation and connect with other listeners here.

All our links are here. 

Transcript of this episode is here.

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

In part one of this special three-part episode, we interview former AOG evangelist/pastor and now #GayAmbassador, Anthony Venn-Brown.  

TRIGGER WARNING: If you find that some of the material in this episode disturbing, we encourage you to talk with a close friend who will understand or contact your local help/crisis/support telephone line. 

• Lifeline Australia https://www.lifeline.org.au/ 
• Beyond Blue https://www.beyondblue.org.au/ 
• LGBT https://qlife.org.au/ 

“A Life of Unlearning – a preacher’s struggle with his homosexuality” is available at all online booksellers. Reviews, endorsements, readers’ comments here: www.ALifeOfUnlearning.com 

Resources and further information about Anthony and his organisation Ambassadors & Bridge Builders International are here:

• www.abbi.org.au
• https://www.facebook.com/abbi.org.au,
• https://www.facebook.com/anthonyvennbrown
• Twitter: @gayambassador
• Instagram: @gayambassador

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

Want more? Check out our exclusive Patreon episodes here.

Join the conversation and connect with other listeners here.

All our links are here. 

Transcript of this episode is here.

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

B&T go to fundamentalist Bible College and would like to bring you along.

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

Want more? Check out our exclusive Patreon episodes here.

Join the conversation and connect with other listeners here.

All our links are here. 

Transcript of this episode is here.

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

T tells his story of being excommunicated from God's one true Church at 17 and how this impacted him both then and now.

If this episode has raised issues for you and you require support and counselling around cults in Australia, please contact:  https://cultconsulting.org/

If you would like to explore the research and counter-Revival Centre work, see the links below:

• http://revivalprophecy.blogspot.com/ 
• https://revivalcentresblog.wordpress.com/ 
• http://revival.aimoo.com/ 

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

Want more? Check out our exclusive Patreon episodes here.

Join the conversation and connect with other listeners here.

All our links are here. 

Transcript of this episode is here.

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

B&T remember how it felt to be a part of the AOG/ACC fold.

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

B&T reflect on what it meant to be a leader in both the Revival Centres and the AOG/ACC. 

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

Want more? Check out our exclusive Patreon episodes here.

Join the conversation and connect with other listeners here.

All our links are here. 

Transcript of this episode is here.

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

This episode, we talk about the church's relationship to, and use of, music, for both good and evil.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

B & T talk about their experiences with the devil, demons, exorcisms and deliverance.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

B&T talk about sex and religion. There seems to be little doubt that fundamentalism warped their views and early sexual experiences.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

Since the very beginnings of Christianity, believers thought they were in the very last days and a cataclysm was imminent. It was no different for B & T when they were teenage fundamentalists. In this episode they reminisce about how the end-times message was presented to them.

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

T talks a little about his pre-conversion home life and his experience of two Christian camps. It was at the second camp where he found himself speaking in tongues and started to wear the label, 'born-again'.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

"No bibles, no preaching, no god-bothering!" These were the conditions B put upon his two brothers, who had recently converted to Pentecostal Christianity, if he were to visit them while on holidays. What happened next would change the course of his life and still continues to impact who he is today.

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Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.

We recorded this way back in Season 1. So, if you plan to work your way through our back catalogue then this is a good place to start. 

--

Transcript of the episode is here.

Podcast links: https://linktr.ee/iwatf 

Email: [email protected] 

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help. Please visit: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ 

We'll be back with new episodes later in 2025!

---

Want more? Check out our exclusive Patreon episodes here.

Join the conversation and connect with other listeners here.

All our links are here. 

Transcript of this episode is here.

Doubting your beliefs? Have questions about changing or leaving your faith? You are not alone and Recovering from Religion is here to help.