It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Join us for the final part of our special series on the shoe salesman who changed football forever: Arrigo Sacchi.

In this episode of It Was What It Was, Sacchi comes to the end of his first spell at AC Milan and answers his country's call - managing the Italian national side at the World Cup in 1994 and Euro 96.

This episode is the last in our series on Sacchi’s extraordinary career and his lasting mark on the sport. It starts with our Sacchi intro episode with Jamie Carragher (please go back and listen if you missed it!).

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It Was What It Was continues our special look into the life and career of one of football's greatest and most influential managers: Arrigo Sacchi.

In this episode, Sacchi has finally arrived at AC Milan and, with a team of legends in the making, his greatest work is about to begin.

This episode is part of our series on Sacchi’s extraordinary career and his lasting mark on the sport. It starts with our Sacchi intro episode with Jamie Carragher (please go back and listen if you missed it!).

If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode.

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It Was What It Was continues the epic story of arguably the most important manager in modern football history: Arrigo Sacchi.

In this episode, Rob and Jonathan explore Sacchi's rise through the coaching ranks. Sacchi earns his spurs in youth coaching, before his impressive work at Parma turns the head of Italian giants AC Milan, and their enigmatic owner Silvio Berlusconi.

This episode is part of our special series on Sacchi’s extraordinary career and his lasting mark on the sport. It starts with our Sacchi intro episode with Jamie Carragher (please go back and listen if you missed it!).

If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode.

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This week on It Was What It Was, we continue the epic story of arguably the most important manager in modern football history: Arrigo Sacchi.

Following-up from last week's episode with Jamie Carragher (please go back and listen if you missed it!), Rob and Jonathan go back to Sacchi's roots and how his legend began.

We discuss Sacchi's early years, from shoe factories to football coaching - and the family tragedy that changed the Italian's destiny and the destiny of European football.

This episode is part of our special series on Sacchi’s extraordinary career and his lasting mark on the sport.

If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode.

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 Welcome to The Overlap's football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

Special guest and Liverpool legend Jamie Carragher join hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper as they explore the legacy of one of football’s most iconic managers: Arrigo Sacchi.

Widely regarded as one of the greatest minds in the sport, Sacchi led AC Milan to back-to-back European Cup triumphs in the late 1980s, building a team that Carragher grew up idolising.

In this episode, Carragher discusses Sacchi's profound influence on football, how his revolutionary tactics reshaped the game, and the impact they had on Carragher's own playing career.

Together, the trio provides an in-depth analysis of Sacchi’s extraordinary career and his lasting mark on the sport.

Next week we dig even deeper into the genius of Sacchi, as Jonathan and Rob kick off their special four-part series on his life, starting with his early years.

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

On this week's episode we travel back to one of the biggest financial scandals in early English football—the 1904-05 Manchester City scandal.

Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper unravel the events that saw Manchester City, fresh off their FA Cup win, embroiled in controversy over illegal player payments.

It Was What It Was explores how the Football Association’s wage cap led to the club’s downfall, forcing manager Tom Maley and 17 players—including star winger Billy Meredith—banned.

You’ll hear how this scandal not only rocked Manchester City but also paved the way for Manchester United's rise, reshaping the footballing landscape in ways that still echo today with City currently facing 115 charges as of September 2024.

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

As Aston Villa return to Champions League football this week, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take a deep dive into the club's most iconic moment: their 1982 European Cup triumph.

It Was What It Was revisits this historic victory, made even more remarkable by the fact that manager Ron Saunders resigned midway through the season, leaving Tony Barton to step in and guide Villa to European glory.

Jonathan and Rob walk us through the unforgettable campaign, which saw Villa travel to Germany and Ukraine before defeating Bayern Munich 1-0 in the final. The win became even more legendary when first-choice goalkeeper Jimmy Rimmer was forced off with an injury, only for his inexperienced replacement, Nigel Spink, to step up and deliver a crucial performance in just his second-ever first-team appearance, cementing his place in Villa's history on one of the club’s greatest nights.

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***Please note this episode was recorded before the death of the late Gary Shaw.***

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

This week, our hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper dive into the extraordinary journey of Lionel Messi, widely regarded as the greatest footballer of all time.

With his 2022 World Cup triumph marking the pinnacle of an already legendary career, Jonathan and Rob take a journey back to Messi’s beginnings.

They explore his childhood in Rosario, the crucial role his family played in his development, and his time at Newell's Old Boys, where he faced and overcame a growth hormone deficiency that almost ended his dream before it began.

In this episode of It Was What It Was, they delve into his life-changing move to Barcelona at just 13, joining the iconic Class of '87 alongside future stars like Cesc Fàbregas and Gerard Piqué, where Messi would go on to become the greatest player in the club’s storied history.

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. This week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper tell the story of probably the most-consequential football club takeover ever: When Roman Abramovich bought Chelsea in 2003.

Before sportswashing was even a word and in an age when Financial Fair Play didn’t exist, we examine the background to the most-startling and unexpected deal in Premier League history. And the extraordinary impact it would make, as Chelsea splurged what was at the time an eye-watering £100m in that first summer transfer window, laying the foundations for Chelsea to become a super club that would win 18 major trophies in the Roman era.

It transformed the Premier League, threatened Fergie, ruined the latter years of Arsene Wenger’s career, caused UEFA to dream up new FFP rules to curb them and paved the way for the era of nation state investors at Manchester City, Paris St Germain and Newcastle United.

It Was What it Was goes back to that stunning summer which changed the game and debates whether football was ever the same after the Roman Conquest.

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

This week, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the connection between Ferenc Puskas and Ange Postecoglou, and how the Hungarian idol influenced the Australian coach.

Regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, Ferenc Puskas’s post-playing career saw him manage across the world, including stints in Spain, America, Greece, Saudi Arabia, and Australia. It was in Australia where Puskas, the manager, coached Postecoglou, the player, at South Melbourne Hellas.

Jonathan and Rob detail Ange Postecoglou’s life, including the influence of his Greek father, and how Puskás's coaching philosophy left a lasting impact on him. Discover how these experiences shaped Postecoglou’s approach to management and contributed to his success.

As Postecoglou gets underway in his second season with Tottenham Hotspur, join us to uncover the enduring legacy of Ferenc Puskas on one of today’s most innovative coaches.

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. 

In Part One, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper set the scene for Liverpool’s incredible 4-3 win over Newcastle in April 1996. We now delve into the game itself and the consequences that follow. 

Having been 12-points clear in the run for the Premier League title, Jonathan and Rob provide an in-depth look into how this game symbolically ends Newcastle’s title chances and ultimately leads to Kevin Keegan leaving the club.

We look closely into the teams, the goals, the players and the atmosphere, as well the aftermath of the game, giving a real resonance of what will happen in football in the next 10 years. 

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. 

In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look into the true classic that was Liverpool v Newcastle in April 1996, as The Reds snatched a victory in the final moments in front of the Kop.

Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the backstory of the season, giving context coming into the game, including Newcastle’s 12 point-lead as they looked to be in the clear for the Premier League title.

The second part of this, which focuses on the game and the consequences that follow, will be out on Thursday 22nd August 

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

In this week’s episode, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take an in-depth look at Pep Guardiola's journey to becoming a football legend.

Focusing on the early stages of his coaching career and the political landscape at Barcelona, Jonathan and Rob explain how the Catalonian club turned to Pep during a turbulent period. Under his leadership, Barcelona experienced its most successful era in history.

As we anticipate the 2024/25 Premier League campaign, where Pep aims for an unprecedented fifth consecutive league title at Manchester City, join us to discover how he evolved into the tactical mastermind celebrated as one of the greatest football managers of all time.

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. 

In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look into a game that was full of trouble -The 1974 Charity Shield at Wembley between Liverpool and Leeds, during a time when behaviour on and off the pitch was declining English football. 

Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the social context and lead up to the game, including a new Liverpool under Bob Paisley and a new Leeds under Brian Clough as they head into the game with uncertainty on both sides. 

Jonathan and Rob also provide a detailed analysis of the match itself, including key players, key incidents that lead to fighting on the pitch and the aftermath of the game on both clubs and English football. 

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

This week, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into one of football's dirtiest ever games: the infamous Battle of Santiago in 1962.

Regarded as one of the most brutal matches in football history, the Battle of Santiago saw host nation Chile face Italy in a violent and chaotic encounter at the World Cup.

Jonathan and Rob detail the events leading up to the game and the explosive incidents on the pitch, where the first foul was committed within 12 seconds, and armed police entered the field three times. They also explore the lasting impact this notorious match had on the world of football.

Discover the political and cultural tensions that fuelled the animosity between the teams, and hear about the controversy surrounding Chile's hosting of the World Cup just two years after a catastrophic earthquake.

Learn how this game led to significant changes in football's officiating and disciplinary procedures, including the invention of the yellow and red card system by the match referee, Ken Aston.

Join us to uncover the full story behind the Battle of Santiago, a match that remains a stark reminder of the sport's darker side.

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*This episode of It Was What It Was discusses issues including racism, with content that some listeners may find offensive.*

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. 

In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look into the successful Uruguay National team of the 1920s and one their key players, Jose Leandro Andrade, who was perhaps one of the first to spark a global mania over a footballer. 

Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the history of Uruguay, how they develop such an impressive team to became one of football’s first global powerhouses, winning gold in the 1924 and 1928 Olympics and lifting the first FIFA World Cup in 1930. 

Jonathan and Rob also provide a detailed analysis of Uruguay’s style of play and their key players, with a particular focus on the life of Jose Leandro Andrade, his journey into football, his rise to fame and falling into poverty. 

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. 

In this week's bonus episode, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper talk about Gareth Southgate and England's Euro 2024 tournament - which proved to be Southgate's last as the Three Lions manager.

Jonathan and Rob reflect on Euro 2024, before questioning where Southgate ranks amongst the greatest English managers - after guiding his country to two Euro finals and a World Cup semi-final after decades of underachievement.

Get in touch with the podcast on socials to let us know where you would place Southgate amongst England's managers.

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 Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. 

In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look into the story of Dezso Solti, a complex character who was one of the most notorious and biggest match fixers in European football during the 1960s and 1970s.

Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into Solti’s extraordinary and horrific origin story in Auschwitz death camp as a Hungarian Jew in 1944, how he got out of Hungary and into Italy.

Jonathan and Rob provide a detailed analysis of Solti’s journey into Italian football, match fixing in this era, the bribing of match officials, including the semi-final of the 1965 European Cup and the evidence that leads to his banning from football. 

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. 

In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look into the 1920 Boxing Day game between Dick Kerr ladies and St Helens Ladies at Goodison, which remained the biggest crowd at a women’s game in England for over 90 years. It also appeared to be a historic turning point, as the FA would ban women’s football a year later on the 5th December 1921. 

Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the growth of women’s football in the 19th-century, looking at the formation of Dick, Kerr Ladies in Preston during WW1, the powerhouse they would become in English football, the attention their football would attract and the large crowds it created. 

Jonathan and Rob provide a detailed analysis of the lead-up to the game on Boxing Day that attracted 52,000 fans, raising money for wounded soldiers, the months that followed which led to the FA’s decision to ban women’s football and looking at how far we have come since. 

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

In Part One, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper set the scene for the qualification of the 1972 Euro quarter-final, where England were knocked out by West Germany. We now delve into the continuing years of decline as England failed to qualify for the following three major tournaments.

Having won the World Cup in 1966, Sir Alf Ramsey’s England side descend into struggle as Jonathan and Rob provide an in-depth look at where it goes wrong for England and how it came to the point where a World Cup winning manager was sacked by his country. 

We look into England’s failure to qualify for the 1974 World Cup in their group with Wales and Poland, as Ramsey’s tactics and style of play led to his sacking, as well as the aftermath for the Three Lions.

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. 

In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look into the decline of England's most successful manager Sir Alf Ramsey, exploring how his 1966 World Cup winners were beaten by a much-improved West Germany side over two quarter-final qualification legs for Euro 1972. 

Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the tactical revolution of England under Alf Ramsey, from their World Cup win in 1966 to their descent in Euro 1972, as West Germany’s positional intelligence show that England were no longer the best in the world. 

Jonathan and Rob provide a detailed analysis of Ramsey’s style of play, the build-up to the first leg quarter-final defeat at Wembley, the changing relationship between England and West Germany from 1966 to 1972 and the key players in those tournaments. 

Our second part is out on Thursday 4th July.

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

In this week’s episode, on its 40th Anniversary, we dive into Euro 1984, a tournament that marked a pivotal moment in French football history as they lifted a major tournament trophy for the first time.

Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the impact of Michel Platini, whose footballing prowess and leadership played a crucial role in guiding France to victory on their home turf. They also analyse how the tournament shaped European football and paved the way for future international competitions.

Jonathan and Rob provide a detailed analysis of the group stages, revisit the historic knockout stage clashes, including the semi-final regarded as the Euro’s greatest ever match between France and Portugal, which culminated in France’s triumphant 2-0 final win over Spain.

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In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look at Euro 2012, a tournament fondly remembered as the crowning moment in Spain’s era of dominance, marking their third consecutive major win following Euro 2008 and the 2010 World Cup.

Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper kick things off by delving into the politics behind the decision to host the tournament in Poland and Ukraine, exploring how the host cities managed the logistical challenges and the lasting impact of the event.

Jonathan and Rob provide a comprehensive overview of the group stages, highlighting memorable moments such as Danny Welbeck’s back-heeled winner against Sweden. They then move on to iconic knockout stage moments, including Andrea Pirlo’s masterful penalty, Mario Balotelli’s unforgettable performance against Germany and Spain’s utterly dominant 4-0 victory over Italy in the final.

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Welcome back to The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

In Part One, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper set the scene for the Euro 2004 knockout stages. Now, we delve into the life of Greece manager Otto Rehhagel, who orchestrated one of football’s greatest miracles at Euro 2004.

The tournament was a landmark for many nations, especially England, who dramatically lost on penalties to hosts Portugal in a thrilling match after Sven Goran-Eriksson’s star 18-year-old Wayne Rooney was injured.

Jonathan and Rob provide an in-depth look at the knockout stages, detailing how Greece astonishingly dethroned France, then defeated the Czech Republic in silver-goal extra time, before beating Portugal for the second time in the competition, having never previously won at a major international tournament.

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

With Euro 2024 approaching this week, we present a special two-part episode on Euro 2004, a tournament where underdogs Greece achieved one of international football’s greatest upsets.

Regarded as the one that got away from Sven-Goran Eriksson’s Golden Generation England team, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper set the scene with a full detailed look on the group stages.

From Portugal’s preparation as hosts to their opening defeat by eventual winners Greece and an 18 year-old Wayne Rooney propelling himself to an international icon, part one delves into the story surrounding the nations before the knock-out rounds.  

Join us for part two on Thursday 13th June where Rob and Jonathan tell the story of Greece manager Otto Rehhagel and the path that led the way to one of football’s biggest ever shocks.

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the sliding doors moments that lead to the Manchester United treble win in 1999.

In the years leading up to Sir Alex Ferguson's greatest achievement, we take a look at some of the key moments that could have changed the course of history: from Maurice Watkins recommending Alex Ferguson as the manager to replace Terry Venables as Barcelona manager in 1986 to Alan Hansen’s infamous comment on Match of the Day as well as United's youth system and signing Eric Cantona. 

It Was What It Was gives a detailed look into the changes that took place at Old Trafford that paved the journey to the treble; including building the squad after the 1994 Champions League loss to Barcelona, new revenue at Old Trafford and the tactical and financial changes at the club. 

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

In part two of our Reds in Rome story, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the events of the day of the 1984 European Cup final between Roma and Liverpool.

Having set the scene in part one of our two-part special, Jonathan and Rob reveal insightful stories from inside the Liverpool camp, the real hostilities their fans dealt with and how Joe Fagan’s side managed to win the first ever European Cup penalty shoot-out, which also unearthed Bruce Grobbelaar’s spaghetti legs. 

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

This week we have a two part special focussing on Liverpool’s 1984 European Cup victory, 40 years on from one of the finest nights in the Reds' history.

Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper discuss the events leading up to the final where Joe Fagan’s side beat Roma in their own stadium as they lifted their fourth European Cup in seven years having already won the league title and league cup in the same season.

In part one Jonathan and Rob explore where Liverpool were as a club and city along with reliving famous knockout stage contests, including dramatic wins over Benfica and Dinamo Bucuresti where tempers flared on and off the pitch. 

Join us for part two on Thursday 30th May to listen to the historical European Cup final where Liverpool became the first side to win the final on penalties. 

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue the series with a unite insight into the life of Jurgen Klopp.

Klopp leaves his managerial role at Liverpool having ended their 30 year top flight trophy drought alongside a historic Champions League, FA Cup, League Cup and Club World Cup during a 9-year period that changed Anfield. 

Rightly regarded as one of the most important managerial spells in the Reds history, Jonathan and Rob explore the events that made Klopp the charismatic manager he is today.

From his childhood and familial upbringing in Baden-Wurttemberg in Stuttgart to his playing then managerial stint at Mainz - that included an incredible final day of the season encounter - It Was What It Was gives a detailed look into the life of the German manager.

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Welcome back to The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

On our second and final part of Arsenal ’89: The Game That Change Football Forever, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper re-live the unforgettable final day of the 1988/89 campaign that seen Arsenal leapfrog Liverpool to the First Division title at Anfield.

George Graham’s Arsenal required a two-goal victory in the final match of the season against reigning champions Liverpool to overtake their opponents and pulled off the miracle through second-half goals from Alan Smith and a last gasp strike from Michael Thomas.

Jonathan and Rob discuss the stunning finale to the season, including the events of the day, celebrational aftermath and how the defining game changed English football forever.

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Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. 

Hosted by journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper, we continue our series with a game regarded as one of the biggest in English football history as Arsenal snatched the First Division title from Liverpool at Anfield through Michael Thomas's late goal in a 2-0 win on the final day of the 1988/89 season. 

In part one of two in our special, Rob and Jonathan set the scene to that famous finale; delving into Arsenal's rebuild under George Graham, Liverpool’s European dominance alongside the historical, social and TV context of the late 1980's. 

Join us for part two on Thursday 16th May to hear the events of the one of the biggest matches in English history and what the aftermath meant for the game.

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Welcome to The Overlap’s brand-new football history podcast, It Was What It Was.

Hosted by journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper, we kick off our series with the story behind one of the greatest managers of all time – Sir Alex Ferguson.

Sir Alex Ferguson won 38 major trophies in 26 years as Manchester United boss, including 13 Premier League titles, two Champions Leagues and five FA Cups during an unprecedented era of success.

But his period of dominance at Old Trafford followed a time of struggles, shocks and setbacks with many fans calling for the Scottish manager to be sacked before he won his first trophy four years into his reign.

Jonathan and Rob delve into how Sir Alex rejuvenated Manchester United, explaining how his arrival from Aberdeen transformed the club’s culture, why his forward-thinking approach for the youth team structure was so essential and which moments were vital in laying the foundations of footballing superiority that transformed the English game.

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Welcome to The Overlap's historical football podcast, It Was What It Was.

Each week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper will be talking about the key episodes in football history that have shaped the footballing world today.

The show will be discussing the best stories from football's past, giving insights to the personalities involved, providing details from behind the scenes and offering vital historical context.

If you enjoy the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode.

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