Leaving Hillsong

the effects of being in a program like Mercy Ministries/ Multiplied are long lasting.. and deep.

Sarah and Britt outline life after getting out and away and the very real impacts of the terrifying and intense indoctrination that such places instil.

It's the final ep for now.. but there's more and the best is always yet to come out!

This one is a tough one and we talk hard times psychologically... and life on the other side!!

Come chat!

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Mercy Ministries offered Sarah and Britt y health treatment in a faith based program.

After arriving, they found it was very different, and that rather than treat their mental health concerns, the enclosed and punitive program made life so much worse.

Sharing details of the daily lives, ways out and impacts of MM, these two women bring truth into the sun, but not before many years have brought them to this safer place and we are grateful for their voices.

So come chat!

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Britt (the Prosperity Lounge) and Sarah (Delusions of Reference) met while they were both at Mercy Ministries, the 'rehab' for young women 'in trouble.'

Told this was the one stop, and last stop, for all their mental health struggles and life challenges, that they would be once and finally healed, the two found that despite being promised 'holistic and professional care', it would take many months and years to recover from this 'rehab'.

Join us as these courageous and strong women tell the story of hell in the place of healing run by a strange set of cronies, Nancy Alcorn, and the Hillsong gang.

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Sarah has bipolar disorder and a history with Hillsong (and also Mercy Ministries but that's later)

What was that like? and what did Sarah see?

What happens when the indefensible becomes all too real?

Come chat!

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Hillsong hurts mental health. But what's it like when you have a pre-existing diagnosis, you're 2o years old, and you hear a message of hope and healing?

Sarah was in Hillsong for 6 years and shares her experiences of how the message, culture, environment and people all influenced her mental health... and how she sees it influencing others... and the community at large.

Don't miss this episode... on Leaving Hillsong !

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You read the verdict! Or you heard the verdict on this very show and today, Crimimal Law Accredited Specialist Andrew Tiedt speaks to us with what he made of this verdict and the decision by His Honour.

What is reasonable?

Was this a reasonable outcome and what about all that perjury?

Come listen to an expert explain the hows and whys of BCH's NOT GUILTY and where was Nabi?

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Twas the night before Xmas when author and activist Matt Drapper talked late night secrets with Tanya -

the best kind, too - other people's ...

Join us as we leave no stone or stoner unturned in our quest for more information to bring YOU.

Because there's a reason for the season - and that's to see whether everyone else is doing better than you, or worse. ... SO JOIN US FOR SOME XMAS FUN - the Hillsong edition!

We talk marriage, divorce, and WHAT THE HELL WENT ON IN THOSE MEETINGS WITH SHERYL SANDBERG?

If you leave your job as pastor do you also surrender your AI assistant?

Who's running virtual Hillsong if no one can handle the IRL one?

Join us as we look at the new scandals and analyse strangers so as to distract from our own Xmas pain. :)

It's a lot of fun... come chat!

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We drag Grace out of paradise on vacation to talk all things

Brian again as he wants his money back! oh the irony... then Grace outlines the redress scheme and various other topics along the way get thrown around with a whole bunch of HOW COME questions..

this is a fun one! and a serious one! so come chat!

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Grace hit town and she had a thing or 2 to say... so we kicked off this chat w a visit back to Hillsong and who she saw and who she didn't...! Join Tanya and Grace for a good old time catch up including a bunch of probably defamatory accusations that if you know, you know.

All fun and games til someone loses their credentials..

Come chat!

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LEGAL DIRECTIONS and DISCERNMENT end the judgment by Magistrate Gareth Christophi in his findings re former pastor Brian Houston's criminal trial in Sydney last year.

This 3rd part is made up of the judge's own directions to himself and his final conclusions and verdict decision.

DON'T MISS OUT ! these are the transcripts from NSW local court where the trial was held! this is word for word...what happened.. so YOU CAN DECIDE!

PART 3 IS READ BY author, (Lesser Light, Bringing Me Back to Me), historian, activist and sometimes co-host of LEAVING HILLSONG, Matthew Drapper for a touch of class!

This is ONLY AVAILABLE here! Come chat!

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pt 2 of the reading of verdict transcripts from NSW Local Court in the trial of Brian Houston for Concealing a Serious Indictable Offence.

This is the reading of the judgment by Magistrate Gareth Christopher on 17 August 2023.

thx to Jake Elliot and PCD for voices!

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Ex pastor Brian Houston's verdict read from the transcripts of his day in court for concealing a serious indictable offence.

Direct from NSW courts... a world first.. the entire verdict... well, part 1.. with Tanya Levin and Jake Elliot!

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When Troy's older brother, Peter, started attending Hillsong, Troy kept quiet. But when his 'trance' like state became more concerning, Troy tagged along.

This fascinating tale of two brothers and their strong bond is continued in this episode.

Troy, a social worker in London, is a very measure and fair type, wanting to be rational and just, yet he found it was too hard to accept Hillsong as anything other than a secret club, a cult.

Come chat as we find out how he managed to get Peter out.. and what life's like now!

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When Troy's brother Peter started hanging with the Hillsongers in London, he tried to be understanding.

But as it progressed, Troy had some real concerns...and he loved his brother... Troy tells the story of brotherly love and how he followed his brother all the way to the altar...

Come chat!

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Geoff Bullock and Brian Houston were good mates.

Until they weren't when Geoff left.

One doesn't leave a narcissist without punishment. And Geoff was punished in every way they could think up.

In part 3, Geoff recalls the man he used to call a friend and tells us what he'd say to his old buddy if he could.

This is a bittersweet story of love, loss and friendship and.. A spiritual milkshake.

Come chat!

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SOCIAL MEDIA INFLUENCERS HOUSTONS Laura, Roberta Lee and Brian Charles were out in full mediocrity and DSM IV criteria following THE VERDICT. suddenly the legal system is the bees' knees. And the judge is honorable and they care about victims.

Super cute if it weren't too little, too late.

Come read along and follow the bouncing ball of snake oil selling and hypocrisy.

Let's talk!

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YOLANDI B and Tanya dive back into the BOLT 💙 HOUSTON 💙 HOUSTON interview and we talk a lot and listen and talk about two of the most privileged humans complain about one going to court.

We've pulled it apart so you don't have to and next up is a gossip ep so.. jump in! Come chat!

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Immediately after Brian Houston was found not guilty of concealing a serious indictable offence, he was interviewed by Andrew Bolt of Sky News.

In this interview, Houston chooses his words and reactions carefully, as does Bolt.

Yolandi Bosch, former Hillsong student and advocate, was concerned, as a Christian, who identifies as conservative, about WHAT Houston was saying.

So we had a chat... and we took this theatre apart in our way!

Come talk with us!

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Geoff Bullock and his mate, Mike Smith knew each other from high school. When Mike had a radical salvation experience in his early 2o's, Geoff wanted to know, too.

He went to the church, met Frank Houston and then, met Brian Houston, and they became best buds

Geoff found the piano, and the rest, as they say, is history.

So we're going back over that history... and what it was like being a late 20's pastor at Hills CLC... when Brian was just a and we ask

What Happened!!! What happened to 5th Beatle Mike? What happened to Brian?

And ... we find out where Geoff is up to!!

This is a chat you won't want to miss!

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In Part 2 of Angel's story of Hillsong Bible college in Sydney, after his visa is cancelled, far from home and family, Angel makes moves to take back control of his life and his thinking...

We find out what happened with immigration and the mountain of lessons learned from and in spite of...being a Hillsong bible college student..

Join Pedagogist and Cat Lover, Angel Huertas, talking about Leaving Hillsong and Leaving church and finding out what and whom to trust!

Come chat with us in Puerto Rico!

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In Part 2 of Angel's story of Hillsong Bible college in Sydney, after his visa is cancelled, far from home and family, Angel makes moves to take back control of his life and his thinking...

We find out what happened with immigration and the mountain of lessons learned from and in spite of...being a Hillsong bible college student..

Join Pedagogist and Cat Lover, Angel Huertas, talking about Leaving Hillsong and Leaving church and finding out what and whom to trust!

Come chat with us in Puerto Rico!

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Angel Huertas hails from Puerto Rico and in 2005, he was super excited to go to bible college in Sydney, Australia!

He packed up and set sail for sunshine and theology and he found something very different. Far from home, when things took a turn for the not so happy.... Angel realised how far away he really was..

Angel is a teacher and shares his learnings with us ... tonight... come chat!

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Following last week's plunge into the sordid and sincere, PCD and TL chat more about

#why PCD thinks BCH should 'wake up every morning screaming'

#what the 'words of knowledge' are really all about in the pentecostal movement

#if Christianity offers any 'good' at all...

#what those people are still doing in #thatplace!

and so much more so don't wait a second longer!

Come chat!

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Paul Castle Dine made a $5 bet with a friend about the group with the tambourine that were camped outside his job at Mcdonalds as a teen... he won... well, he was right.. but it lead directly to his initiation into the Hills Christian Life centre which unbeknownst to anyone least of all PCD in the mid 1980s was going to explode one day into the virus called Hillsong.

Your loyal host is always up for a step back in time and so well, between the old Donna stories and some Brian lore, we found time to shake our heads in nostalgic horror about a world hit by one disease and about to endure a plague of a different kind.

Join this alumni for some inside dirt and some equally strong views now ... !!! Come chat!

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In the final part of The Grifter Highway, Janice Lagata from God Has Not Given in New York shares some more views on the people that ran the New York Hillsong.

We talk about the finances that the 'church' threw around and spent and how did they end up with no money again?

Can there be redemption for Hillsong? What will happen to Carl Lentz?

And a quick question about where Brian has citizenship??? hmmmm

Find out in part 3! Come chat!

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@godhasnotgiven Star Janice Lagata continues her discussion from New York City with Tanya about:

• hell
• podcasts
• friends who think you're going to hell
• leaving church
• whatever might be going on in preachers' heads when they spend up all that money!

So come talk the big talk as we travel further on down The Grifter Highway... come chat!

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Writer, performer, musician and host of top-rating #exvangelical and life podcast @godhasnotgiven, Janice Lagata, joins Tanya Levin to discuss her story of being in and leaving the most famous of all the Hillsongs--- New York City with Pastor Carl Lentz.

Teamed up to discuss the internal investigation report from the lawyers, we move on to topics including Janice's own history and her perspective now the report, the pastors, and the leaders are all OUT...

This is nothing if not HONEST and Janice is her warm, funny wise self as we take a look at... The Grifter Highway...

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On 15 and 16 June, the closing arguments in the trial of R v Brian Charles Houston were heard at Sydney's Downing Centre, the prosecution and the defence allocated one day each.

Jake Elliot from @the_framew0rk and me, Tanya were there both days to see these things in real life and he took notes while I stared at Bobbie.

We take a good stab at understanding what took place, offer some opinions for what they're worth and we even hear from our LH lawyer !

I don't think the prosecutor is Scottish but it was exciting to think so... this case is so detailed ... the best is still yet to come out!!!

Come chat!!

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Peter Fox is a former Detective Chief Inspector of the NSW Police force and had been on the force for decades when he came across cover ups in the Catholic church of pedophilia in the very neighbourhood he commanded.

Worse yet, when he brought this to the attention of the police, he was directed to hand over his investigation.

Mr Fox blew the whistle and demanded a royal commission into these issues. It cost him his career, but not his will.

I was thrilled to talk to Peter about how he sparked a royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse in Australia, and his thoughts on Hillsong.

DON'T MISS THIS!!

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Why did the Vanity Fair documentary nosedive into a promo piece for a perp with multiple complaints about his leadership, his behaviour, his financial misappropriation, sexual exploitation, labour exploitation, coercive control and on and on including spiritual abuse?

We may never find out, although I suspect we will... but today we conclude the Carl Lentz VF exploration with Tanya's first hand account of working with the producers... and being deceived... and feeling scammed.

Shaun Nemorin, M.S.W. , U.N.H.C.R staff, and former Leaving Hillsong podcast guest - An Economy of Souls- had wanted to interview Tanya...and this is the conversation they had, ...

• what has the hunt for truth cost Tanya?
• what has the recent foray with Vanity Fair been like? up close with the bright lights?
• how does connection make us feel less alone?
• how to deal with issues of trust and being taken for a ride?
• what does 'the institution', as Shaun calls it, need to do to affect change?
• will Vanity Fair get away with it? !

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What did BCH ask Tanya Levin after more than 23 years of no contact when they caught up at court?

Why did Tanya get arrested while Justin Bieber was at conference?

We continue Luc Hilton's interview with Leaving Hillsong host, Tanya Levin in part 2 of this very special episode ...

don't miss it!!

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Vanity Fair's recent 'documentary' The Secrets Of Hillsong had a really big secret it kept from most of the participants - they were being interviewed without knowing that the source of so many complaints of abuse, celeb loving pastor from New York, Carl Lentz was actually using this for a comeback. Or using Vanity Fair or from most ways you look at this, the positive light shines bright like a diamond in a pastor's Rolex.

And we got scammed. Bad. Just lied to... and here we are.

So, i decided, since Vanity Fair used my expertise for their movie then erased my book and this pod... pushing all that aside to make room for Carl and Laura ....

Luc Hilton did this interview with me, Tanya Levin on 23 Jan 2023 who knew how useful it would be?

If they refuse to tell the right story and there SO MUCH wrong with this show... then I'll tell you about me!!

Come Chat!

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Bobbie Houston, the former Biggest Shot at Hillsong, has been preaching up a storm at her frenemy's church, Wendy Treat over in Seattle, blissfully ignorant of the reality of her husband's bad behaviour and inability to shave.

Or is she? Join me, Tanya and James, our resident Mental Health consultant as we look over the myriad of drivel and confessions that pour out of the heart/mouth of Roberta Lee Houston nee McDonald.

Is she a witch? Is she mentally ill? Is she lying? All 3? You decide tonight as we hear all about Bobbie's God moments and A visit from the ancients!

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Carl Lentz was an unusual pastor to his New York City sheep and they loved every moment of him.

Until they didn't.

Long before Lentz's famous fall, Nate, a native New Yorker was on the production team at Carl's NY franchise, and he joins us again with his fiance, Gail, a Canadian, who also comes from a background of evangelicalism.

We chat about Carl, and Josh, and Darnell, and what it's like to SERVE under the KING ... we also have a fun time talking about what's the point of Brian Houston? and the hooks that these snake oil shepherds use to keep their sheep in line.. the guilt, and so often.. the feeling of responsibility for others in a church where there are predators and threats.

So come visit New York with us, me, Tanya, and Gail, and Nate and let's chat! Oh and check out Full Mutuality, the podcast by the pod guests!

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Gail is from Canada. Nate is from New York. Both are from an evangelical background and wound up engaged.

Nate and Gail from the Full Mutuality Podcast talk American fundamentalism and Hillsong NYC and the highs and lows it offered.

In Part 1 we meet them and find out how Nate went from being taught he was 'worse than Judas' to being up close and personal with some of New York's finest... Christians.

Come chat!

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Drapps, our UK correspondent, joins us to talk Mike Pilavachi and Soul Survivor and the recent #SCANDAL to hit the UK.

We talk about what happens when young men feel uncomfortable and how an entire movement. based on celibacy turned out not to be so.

What to do next? well, come chat and let's find out!

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Scott and his wife Kat join us for part 3 of our deep dive into the MUSIC of Hillsong... how it's created and how it's weaponized for crowds... and then, something happened... as we were talking about growing up in Hillsong, Scott spoke of abuse at Youth Group, physical, psychological, and sexual.

This is an intense episode with a passion expressed that is as raw as any church service.

What is criminal and what is....religious freedom?

Don't miss this episode... And if you're a parent who goes to church... this one's for you!

Come chat!

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The Hillsong liturgy? TONIGHT we take apart the magic of Hillsong music and its worldwide influence.. how does it work?

And who gets to be a STAR?

Find out who gets chosen to play the role of musician in the Greatest Megachurch Show on Earth!

Scott and Kat both had roles on stage and they guide us through the highly scripted and highly influential music machine that is Hillsong music in part 2.. come chat!!

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"I know the people who wrote those songs!", says Scott's friend in the 7th grade.

"Really! thinks Scott, then I'm going to that Hillsong Church...."

For 15 years Scott sang Hillsong songs on stage and learned all there is about music... well, Hillsong music. In the mean time, Kat was growing up on the North Coast of NSW and going Uniting, until she took a gap year for college... and before she was classically trained at the Conservatorium.

Together they made all kinds of music (groan, yes) and now married for 7 years, baby makes 3.

But they're no longer in Hillsong after all the promises and dreams were laid out.

So what happened? and what IS backstage like?

Come talk with Scott and Kat ... :)))))

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3/ what's life been life like since? For former pastors Craig and Sam Wood, life has been fantastic.

but it was rough at the start, when they first left Hillsong and went out into the world.

Stripped of their daily support systems and employment, Sam and Craig had to start from scratch.

What did they do?

Where did they turn and how did they make it through?

We talk faith, life and relationships on Leaving Hillsong part 3 with this incredible couple! Come chat!!

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Pastor Craig had a question for Pastor Brian Houston when he ran into him.

The answer changed the course of the Woods family's lives FOREVER...So what was so important and then what did Craig and Sam do once they were handed the answer in a way only BCH gives answers?

Find out on Part 2 of outta the woods!!

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Former Hillsong pastors talk for the first time about 8 years spent in the leadership roles after many years before at church and in ministry.

Then along came Brian Houston. And in minutes, everything changed.

Join us for this next-level chat about what it's like to start, run, pioneer and lead only for it to come crashing down and the whole family has to start from the beginning!

#pastors #hillsong #leavinghillsong #exvangelical #evangelical #pods

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What about Uncle Sam and #Hillsong? Does the IRS want to know about these gifts and honoraria?

Is Brian supposed to pay tax on the money he collects overseas and are his mates supposed to pay tax on the tax deducted money that is tax exempt that is given to THEM when they hit Aussie shores?

Barry Bown, chief investigator of Leaving Hillsong but usually the Trinity Foundation has been thrilled by the Whistleblower Documents dropped by Andrew Wilkie, MP, in Canberra March 9. He's here to show us the rights but mostly wrongs of these wacky characters and outlines the tax evasion, exemption, avoidance, and just plain old ignorance that is going on around the world and in the USA by megachurch pastors.

You won't want to miss this Global Senior Explanation of the racket called Hillsong!

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THE SOURCE IS BACK. Saucy Source gives us the lowdown on tax loopholes which are gaping wide if you are a pastor, or his spouse or his kids or his car or house.

Life is good when you pay no tax on anything but it also involves a lot of gift giving and we jump into that.

The Sauce is undercover and disguised his voice but he's got A LOT to tell you about honoraria and cash and gifts and life as a pastor and his accountant. We also cover a little Gary Clark history from the good old days #horrible #hillsong #history #leavinghillsong #etc #weseeyou #timesup

Come chat !!

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What kind of people spend $12,000 to change a flight? What kind of people are these big spenders in the name of God? S.J. got in touch and wanted to go through the Whistleblower Docs on the pod so we sat down and had a good old chat about hankies, and phones, phone cases, Shady and Freddy from J.C. Travel (yes, it is what you think) , private jets, mouth ulcer ointment and every expenditure she found horrific and hilarious.

Come join me, Tanya, and S.J., a Leaver from way back, as we dive again into the credit cards and lifestyles of the rich and the righteous!.

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Blow those whistles, everyone, cos the report is OUT!

Grab your copy from the Leaving Hillsong Instagram and facebook links and come laugh along at the people who... well you these people!

We rip the report up and defame every name we can so that you don't have to!

Laugh or cry it's up to you! We chose to point and giggle. And we hope you can join us!

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Glen and I talk change in the megachurch and say 'the megachurch must die' a bunch of times.

Glen continues to stress his faith over his church and we discuss the heartache and tough times after leaving a place like Hillsong.

Uncertainty and injustice are themes in the Moses family's lives and Glen talks openly about how they've managed the losses and realisations that come with #leavinghillsong

so don't miss The One with Glen Moses..

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Glen Moses attended Hillsong for 6 years before they parted ways.

In that time Glen and his wife Natalie saw many things that concerned them and Glen shares that with us today.

He started a Youtube called the Megachurch Must Die and he's here to explain why that is... what alternatives he sees and why he still loves God.

So come chat about The One with Glen!

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What do you get when the UK meets Sydney meets Baton Rouge, Louisiana? THIS CHAT!

De, Drapps and I continue to wade through life's most uncomfortable questions:

Can you be Christian and gay?

What's the difference between church and hypnosis?

Is God just a drug?

Come join us for this special #lgbt #worldpride #recap as De gives us his POV on and sundry and why the further he gets away from church...?

Well you'll have to find out! Talk soon!

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De'Vannon, Drapps and I talked last June for #pride but the interview never made the month

De's story is too great to miss so I saved it up and here we are with worldpride and this conversation is still so rich and so relevant.

De'Vannon grew up in the South of the USA in a faith based home and community and has seen his own trials and tribulations, literally.

He's been in Lakewood Church serving under Joel Osteen, he's been in prison, and now he's just into podcasts and being his own pastor.

Join us for an #LGBT special event with De's ideas on what it means to be a Black gay Christian man living in Louisiana and loving life!

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OUR resident mental health expert James and me Tanya carry on for a bit about Bobbie Houston, her husband, her marriage, but most of all her thoughts when creating the social media posts that she does.

We're basically lost for words but we do our best and well, just come chat with us!

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"Hey Tanya" the SMS said. "Do you think it's Hubris Syndrome or Narcissism?" 

James, our resident mental health professional was asking me about the recent posts by former #Hillsong #leader #Bobbie Houston. 

So we decided to take a closer look.. 

Come read Case Notes with us!

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Laura discusses her final days at #Hillsong Bible College and what life's been like since. 

She also discusses the statements Hillsong made in response to her interview with Business Insider's Rich McHugh from their #newsroom. 

Laura talks about the pressures from all sides to fit the Hillsong model and make it big... and what happens when you speak up against a place that size! 

Come chat with us! 

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Laura Hamilton is the 2nd former #Hillsong #college student named in the article named here

followinng the interview Yolandi Bosch (last week's episode) and she gave with Rich McHugh and Business Insider in 2020. 

If you have a #Hillsong story, #leavinghillsong is the place to tell it, and Laura explains the circumstances that lead to her enrolment and eventual 'depersonalisation', career crisis, and financial desperation. 

We've heard so much of what these big corporations have to say. It's great to hear the other side/s!

Come chat!

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Yolandi B was accused of 'concerning behaviour' as a student of Hillsong college. In Part 2 she responds to this lurid term and tells her story. 

Bible college is the golden goose of any church, if it wants to save on those nasty taxes. 

But what happens when students don't produce the gold? What happens if they get sick? Is 20 hours a week reasonable for toilet cleaning as a practical element of a course you've paid thousands to attend?

Grab your bag and your books and come listen in and take notes! The best is yet to come out!

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Yolandi Bosch is a former Hillsong student who worked hard to get to the college and even harder to get away from it when the rug was pulled from under her. 

Recently she found a response to an interview she was in from #hillsong's "newsroom" and it got her a little upset. 

Join Yolandi and I as we review this article, the college, visas for international students and what, if any, the costs of speaking out have been. 

Was it worth it? Find out 

#college #aog #pentecostal #biblecollege #exvangelical #evangelical #students #NDA #sh

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Grace and Tanya talk about pastors turning into life coaches and #nepobabies also called career advancement in #Hillsong as well as many other nuggets of info that Grace is famous here for dropping into conversation. 

This is Part 3 and it's the final so come on over and chat with us!

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The talk continues about philosophical crises and education or lack thereof in the hallowed Pentecostal halls. Grace has lots more to say and it's always such an interesting iceberg to chip away at. 

So come talk with us! 

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Grace went to #Hillsong for #Christmas and reports back on what that was like. 

I play various clips of preaching that can be picked apart. We discuss all kinds of hypocrisies and questions left over while everything is left dangling in the air over this once hugely influential megachurch. 

So grab your snacks and your beanbags and come gossip with us tonight!

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The surprise sale of the Houston family belongings on Instagram made for an even happier new year for people wanting to know where their tithes ended up. 

Brian and Bobbie are selling up and moving out and moving on up or somewhere who knows? 

Join Matthew Drapper and me, Tanya Levin for an irreverent and bemusing look at the items that the #Hillsong people have posted willingly online, from slippers to cushions to that jacket!

So come chat and laugh! we're all weeping on the inside. it's fine! 

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London's #Hillsong seemed exciting to Catherine and an opportunity to further her walk with God through a church where she might use her talents. 

There was only one problem - the rest of her life, including her work, got in the way. 

Catherine attended Hillsong for years, despite her limited capacity to 'serve' but eventually, she left, and only relatively recently to this recording. 

Find out why and how this Christian still has her faith even after #leavinghillsong! Come chat!

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Hi there! Welcome back to Leaving Hillsong and The Court Case of Brian Charles Houston on one count of concealing a serious indictable offence, namely his father's child sexual abuse of a nearly 8 year old boy in 1970. 

Jake Elliot from @the_framew0rk (insta and FB) and me, Tanya Levin,  combed through our notes fresh out of court. And this is what we got. 

It's such a fascinating case that it truly is worth keeping up and taking notes and week 2 is a bombshell and more. 

So grab your snacks and your sofa and socks and tune in to THE COURT CASE! PART 3 of Week 1. (Dec 5-9 2022)

Producer : Kimberly Robinson

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Jake Elliot from @the_framew0rk and Tanya from LH carry on with whatever sense can be made of the story so far in Week 1. The DPP is laying out an extensive and intricate case and neither of us know shorthand so we're doing our best with our notes. 

It's proving to be the highest theatre in the Downing Centre in Sydney for the trial of Brian Charles Houston, the former Global Senior Pastor of Hillsong for the singular count of concealing a serious indictable offence that being the assault of a boy in 1970 by his father, Frank Houston after 15 Sept 1999 until his father died in late 2004. 

The witnesses were so carefully chosen that we're trying to use our abundance of caution if only so that I can say 'abundance of caution' cos it sounds good. 

Come join as us in court! 

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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Grace speaks openly about looking back on her years at Hillsong as a young woman who had invested so much and now is recovering from the losses and reflecting on the gains. 

She offers practical tips on coping with immediate triggers, running into old church associates in public and how to respond in the kindest way possible to YOURSELF. 

Grace is awesome and so is this final part of this super cool chat. 

It's such a helpful episode. Come chat!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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Jake Elliot from @the_framew0rk and Tanya Levin of @leaving.hillsong attended the trial of Brian Houston on a single count of Conceal a Serious Indictable Offence under Section 316 of the Crimes Act for the first 5 days at the Downing Centre in Sydney's CBD. 

We recorded notes as best we could, Jake on his iPad and me by hand. 

This is Part 1 of our note comparison of the events that unfolded over those 5 days. 

This episode covers day 1 and some of day 2 . More of the opening statements will be recorded later. 

As far as I know, this level of detail on this trial is available NOWHERE ELSE but Leaving Hillsong

The best is yet to come out, so grab a chair and come join us in court!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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Grace and Tanya shooting more breeze with: 

- that prayer for B and B by Rob Ferguson

- facing the impact of the Hillsong volcano

- trauma at HS and the response.. 

Come chat!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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Grace and Tanya talk court. Part 1

- BCH stuff

-Updates from last week's court chat from our legal assistant, Nic

- Queen Natalie's response to Hillsong's attempt at a defence

- and the prayers of the desperate

Come chat!

Producer : Kimberly Robinson

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Why is Hillsong's Brian Houston going to court? 

What is this case about? Why do Australian lawyers wear wigs and who the heck is 'R'?  What's a Royal Commission? 

Councillor Nathan Zamprogno joins me, Tanya Levin, to discuss the court case that will start in Sydney's local court on December 2, 2022, 

We are not here to speculate or opine, merely to outline the processes that have taken place leading to this court appearance. 

So join us, in the pursuit of the understanding of how criminal justice might work in the land Down Under in the Evangelical Trial of the Century.

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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How do you deal with the trauma a narcissist inflicts? 

How do you recover from abuse that you were taught was love? 

How do you stop blaming yourself for what you loved and believed in to be true? 

Whether you were in Hillsong, a regular cult, a domestic violence relationship, or the subject of any trauma, especially where your boundaries were violated and your good faith exploited, THIS POD is for YOU. 

Tiffany Wylder has a background in psychology and trauma recovery and she talks with us about how to face the unbearable betrayal of being exploited in the name of love... or god... or well, anything. 

We were schooled by James on Narcissism and NPD from a medical model POV and now we're going to hear about the results of their damage... the trauma.. and the way out to finding yourself... 

Tiffany is wise and strong and unable to be judgey... yet she's related to me!! 

Please don't miss this. She changed my life by teaching me how to change it myself... and it's a gift that never stops giving. 

Pull up a sofa and settle in for a fresh take on trauma, love, and forgiveness... 

COME CHAT!!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson 

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10th grade Kat went to a play at a church that changed her life. Fearing the fires of hell that were threatened that night, she focussed on avoiding its clutches at the AoG church in Mildura, Victoria just on the banks of the river. 

Kat sacrificed everything she could and threw the rest into the fire, but it wasn't enough for God or for the church, and eventually, for Kat. 

Join us as we go to a small country town where once everything had been burned, Kat had to start again. 

Come join this refreshing and difficult conversation tonight!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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Narcissism. Narcissistic Personality Disorder. 

What is it? How can you spot it... and what can you do about it? 

In this fascinating discussion with James, our resident Mental Health Clinician with 30+ years experience in the field working in psychiatric fields and  facilities, we discuss what the medical model is regarding NPD and narcissistic behaviour. 

This is episode 2 of #casenotes which is #leavinghillsong 's #mentalhealth department. 

There are #somany discussions to be had, so this is the start of the Narcissism #iceberg.. and it's a slippery slope from grandiosity to megachurch pastor!

So PLEASE join us for this special episode as we explore what the doctors think about narcissists and how to manage them... 

SPOILER ALERT .. YOU CAN'T!!!!! 

COME CHAT!! 

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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Grace and I pick up where Part 1 left off and move into the realm of salacious discussion and juicy commentary on the likes of Brian H. Carl Lentz and what we think on all that. 

Grace is on fire so don't miss her ideas and thoughts as she brings back the freshest opinions from the inside out... 

Come chat with us about married and unmarried life... in leadership and the front rows... in Part 2 of this special chat. Let's talk!

Producer : Kimberly Robinson :)

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Grace is back ! Our semi reg cohost joins me for a late night chat about deconstruction, adjusting to life in the outside world... marriage.. family.. and what the hell has she been told? 

Only out of Hillsong culture for 2 years, Grace shares her insights fresh from the hothouse and out in the sun!

We had a lot of fun with this and hope you will too. Come chat!\

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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Lindsay Duncan is a faithful listener of the Leaving Hillsong pod and he has recently published his second book, Becoming Ben - From God to Gay.

He sat down with me to talk about writing this time, how he creates his fiction, and why oh why he put himself through it!

Lindsay is a psychologist with over 30 years' experience and he also shares his lived experience in the pentecostal movement including coming face to face with Frank Houston in the late 60's at a youth camp. 

This is a warm and wise conversation with a warm and wise man. 

These are some great pearls being dropped here so join us please and settle in for some old time charismatic history and what changed... come chat!

Producer : Kimberly Robinson

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Dave started up as a youth pastor, but as he tell us, "everything great they said would happen DID happen... after I left.."

But it wasn't an easy path and Dave had to find his way out of a psychiatric maze of medication and diagnoses... and on the path to his own happiness along with his wife. 

In Part 2 we discuss Dave's regrets about the role he played in driving the Vision of Hillsong and the orders he followed and gave...

It's such an urgent and important conversation as so many people have these lingering worries about what was done to them but what they allowed, or saw, or perpetuated. In the name of God. 

Pull up your beanbag and let's spill the beans on Leaving Hillsong when you cringe looking back! 

Let's talk!

Producer : Kimberly Robinson 

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How much of the damage done at Hillsong is the fault of the every day person? Of the leaders? Of the people up top? 

We start opening the dynamics of this power and how abusive systems perpetuate by talking with Dave who spent 13 years following his 9th grade conversion experience dedicated to making the world a better place for God with his youth group. 

Looking back though, he worries about the influence he had as he rose up in the leadership ranks and we talk about how that happened and what to make of it. 

Join us for this important discussion about a happy kid who wanted to hang out with his friends and use his energetic, fun loving personality to bring about change for humanity and wound up thinking it had all disappeared...

Producer : Kimberly Robinson

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Tom Tilley has been known for over 15 years around Australian music circles and media, working as a journalist on Triple J's Hack program, the Australian ABC and on commercial networks. 

And while his friends and colleagues knew he'd grown up in a religious home and church, they didn't really understand. So Tom released a book this year called Speaking in Tongues, and he joins me and Fiona who was also a CRC kid (see A Pentecostal Agenda) to talk about writing that book and what this coming out has been like! 

It's a very thoughtful and revealing conversation about a young man finding his way and now, looking back at how he got there in the face of unusual barriers. 

See the book giveaway on Facebook and Instagram too!

Come chat! 

producer: Kimberly Robinson

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How do you solve a problem like Mesiti? Who are these men who make the decisions over our worlds as religious devotees? 

What do you do when a roving evangelist has a prophecy over your life? You do what Luc did and fulfil your family's dreams, and, God's.. or so he thought. 

Join Luc and me while we discuss the different influences of Hillsong and the CLC movement and the huge effects it had on his life, then and now.... 

Luc has had a long and winding road and he's not apologetic for the stance he's taking, and one that's cost him so very much to make. 

So pull up a couch and come chat with us about #leavinghillsong and what life was like for Luc after....

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What would you do if you were given an ultimatum to choose between your family and your faith? 

Luc gives Pentecostalism a one-star review and he's got a bunch of reasons why. That scenario is just one of them... Luc joins us to discuss growing up AoG and CLC and Hillsong.. and what he saw, felt, and heard along the way... 

There are so many stories in this one that it's a 2 parter and a few content warnings that may be distressing... or just your childhood if you grew up fundie Christian. 

So join us please! As we revisit the good old days of CLC and Hillsong's meteoric rise in one man's life... 

Talk then!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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Where does the money at Hillsong go? 

The oldest question in the book, Natalie Moses, a former employee, currently stood down with pay, has filed a complaint in the Federal Court that she saw a lot of where it went and it was corrupt, unethical, illegal and fraudulent. 

On this episode, we speak with solicitor, former AoG/ACC executive officer, and PhD candidate  in this field Alex Spencer about what this complaint means for Ms. Moses and for Hillsong's future. 

You won't want to miss this one! 

Part 2 will be Barry Bowen from Trinity Foundation taking it from a global level because Hillsong may well be in a world of trouble. 

Come be part of this chat and bring your notebook cos wow!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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Barry Bowen from the Trinity Foundation in Texas (trinity.fi.org) joins me today as a TV evangelist investigator and researcher, reporter and journalist to discuss Natalie Moses's case from a US point of view. 

Ms Moses's allegations include shuffling money on off to the US and Barry talks us through some of the  the ramifications of what this means. 

Then we have a little chat about What Would Carl Lentz Do next? 

It's super great. Enjoy and just leave Hillsong as soon as you can if you haven't already. Please?

Come chat. This is just incredible!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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So Brian H formerly of Hillsong won and Ernie award held at Parliament House and Meg who nominated him and collected his misogyny prize continues the story of the night in question and what it's like when women use the power to say NO to things that men like Brian say. 

It's chat time! 

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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Last Thursday a friend in Melbourne contacted me to tell me she had succeeded in nominating Brian Houston of Hillsong for an Ernie award for misogyny and that he'd won!

I immediately asked if she would share her experiences and she did! 

This episode is an update on the court matters that Hillsong is surrounded by and drowning in, including the matter of Pastor John McMartin, chief concealer of Frank Houston, and charged with indecent assault against a young woman. 

And then, Meg tells her story. It's a harrowing tale of child sexual abuse and people who looked the other way, deliberately. 

So this is another hard story, from so many perspectives of what abuse is and does and means in church. 

Meg is like no one you ever met before and I ask her, WHERE WAS JESUS, when you were being abused by Grandad? 

Her answers will change you. She's just so unique. 

So, if you can, join us. Or share this episode. It's so special. part 2 to follow xo

Producer:Kimberly Robinson

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What does anyone do when they hear about or experience child sexual assault or any crime coming out of a church? 

How do we stop the cover ups and ignorance? 

Join Nick Jordan and me as we discuss the work he does chasing down offenders to bring about justice in the form of compensation and acknowledgement. 

It's a tough but urgent chat, and it's mandatory for all LH listeners. As well as anyone else who needs to know. Which is all of us. 

Come chat. This is the stuff that we need to know to change this world and this culture. 

You'll never think the same or feel helpless in the face of this awful something. 

Talk then!

Producer : Kimberly Robinson

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Grace and I continue our conversation about Hillsong's implosion and loss of revenue and members. 

We discuss conferences and events and the addictive and fun nature of being involved and feeling special... 

And then I force Grace's hand about her current or not attendance at Hillsong and where does she come from? 

So stick around til the end and enjoy our dissection of a young person's experience at Hillsong... and how she left. 

COME CHAT!!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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GRACE IS BACK!  and she's telling it like it is. 

We sat down to kick off recording Grace's own history with Hillsong and thought we'd go over some updates. She'd had a few chats with some insiders and has taken the liberty of sharing news with us all. 

We discuss the recent Hillsong conference, or what's left of it, and Hillsong College or what's left of it, and it's going to take until the end of episode 2 before I get Grace to tell us exactly nearly her Hillsong background. 

So pull up a chair, or come hang over the back fence and let's talk!

Producer : Kimberly Robinson

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Counselling: should Christians seek counsel with unbelievers? Can Christian counsellors be professional?

Why not just keep it in house? In church? 

Today we meet Petra a long time mental health social worker to find out how these two worlds meet and why it’s so important that they do

Come chat with us !

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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WELCOME TO CASE NOTES - LEAVING HILLSONG'S NEW SEGMENT ON MENTAL HEALTH. 

TODAY we meet James, a mental health practitioner from Victoria, Australia who joins me to discuss the myriad he of mental health possibilities that are expressed in the posts and personalities and behaviours of former Hillsong leaders, Brian and Bobbie Houston. 

While THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE OR A PSYCHOLOGICAL DIAGNOSIS, it's definitely TIME TO LOOK AT THIS from a practical and a medical POV. 

So, pull up a chair and listen in to the first dive into mental health and Hillsong... !!! 

Producer : Kimberly Robinson

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Sarah continues her deconstruction story and wow there's a lot here... We discuss issues that women face in leaving churches, especially if they're gay women. 

Describing herself as both a 'wee sensitive soul' and a 'diehard atheist' we managed to get through issues including 

- rape in marriage

- custody battles

- lesbian parenting

-neurodiversity

- purity culture

-prophecies and facades

- consent

- going NO CONTACT 

and can ExVangelicals trust therapy? 

It was a doozy so don't miss it!

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Sarah continues her deconstruction story and wow there's a lot here... We discuss issues that women face in leaving churches, especially if they're gay women. 

Describing herself as both a 'wee sensitive soul' and a 'diehard atheist' we managed to get through issues including 

- rape in marriage

- custody battles

- lesbian parenting

-neurodiversity

- purity culture

-prophecies and facades

- consent

- going NO CONTACT 

and can ExVangelicals trust therapy? 

It was a doozy so don't miss it!  (explicit language content)

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Growing up in the Christian Outreach Centre movement, Sarah was immersed in church life. She grew up in a Christian home and married a Christian man. Everything was perfect. 

Except Sarah is gay and she knew something had to change. 

Sarah is from Glasgow, and it's another look from another culture at  what happens when an insignificant gay kid is also 'a raging homosexual'. 

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When People in Glass Houses was first released in July 2007, Australian ABC show Enough Rope and its host Andrew Denton wanted  exclusive rights to interview me.

That interview  was intense for me having never done any media and starting on TV was a lot. 

Derryn Hinch is an Australian icon for an 80's kid like me. He was a late night current affairs host who famously served a jail sentence for releasing a suppressed name of a pedophile before the courts. 

I really wanted to get this opportunity and it was only in the second week of publicity that he showed interest. 

15 years later, he and I are still saying the same things. 

And I'm still grateful to chat to this Aussie hero!

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Growing up in the Christian Outreach Centre movement, Sarah was immersed in church life. She grew up in a Christian home and married a Christian man. Everything was perfect. 

Except Sarah is gay and she knew something had to change. 

Sarah is from Glasgow, and it's another look from another culture at  what happens when an insignificant gay kid is also 'a raging homosexual'. 

R - rated language warning

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When Ben Gresham had had enough of Hillsong's inaction on LGBT issues and Gay Conversion Therapy, he Tweeted the pastor, Brian Houston and was invited to breakfast. 

Ben joins us in this chat to discuss that discussion and what it's like to come face to face with the leader himself. 

We also talk coming out of the closet and out of Hillsong and living an authentic life... no matter who you are!

You don't want to  miss part 2!

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Ben Gresham-Petchell is an out and proud gay Christian. However, that wasn’t always the case. After coming out to his Hillsong youth group leader, Ben entered his first ‘ex-gay’ program at 16 years old believing that it was impossible to be gay and Christian. What followed was years of harm resulting in depression and even a suicide attempt.

Ben joins Matthew and me to discuss his Big Gay Rainbow of Light in the Darkness that was Hillsong and how he took its leader, Brian Houston to task and to coffee. 

It's a wonderful story so join in and share with us!

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In Part 2 , we hear Matthew Drapper's story of gay conversion therapy and the damage and dangers it presented. 

Drappa takes us through his path OUT of the closet and also the wannabe Hillsong church he was so heavily invested in. 

It's a magical conversation and an incredible story of hardship and hope and authenticity. Please pull up a chair and join us! 

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In our first #PRIDE interview, Matt Drapper details a childhood growing up in a 'Duggaresque' family where homeschooling and homebirthing were the order of the day and the parents. 

Being gay was a secret Matthew kept for a very, very long time, until he finally couldn't keep the truth inside for much longer.. 

Please join us for part 1 of A Kind of Empathy.. it's an emotional roller coaster and you're gonna love it..

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When Hillsong's Interim Pastor Phil gave the Great Announcement of 19 March 2022 in front of 800 of the company's closest friends on Zoom, not everyone responded sympathetically to the delivery of the news that To Be or Not to Be a Houston supporter was to be the question. 

Brian and Bobbie's daughter Laura, as well as their son, Pastor Ben, leapt to their defences with an emotive email to the board that Ben soon supported. 

Somehow that email made its way to the Saturday Paper's Elle Hardy and to Grace and me. 

Listeners of #leavinghillsong on the reg will enjoy getting to know Grace a bit more as she gets ready to discuss her own life in the Glass House. 

We also rip up some child protection issues so be careful, and be kind to yourself, and to those around you. 

Come chat with us! Send us your thoughts and listen in to 

To Be a Houston !

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Journalist, producer and multi Emmy award winner Rich McHugh joins us in the Leaving Hillsong conversation to discuss the similarities he sees between Hollywood and Hillsong. 

Rich was the Supervising Producer at NBC's Investigative News Investigative Unit and interviewed scores of Harvey Weinstein accusers while working with Ronan Farrow. 

The Pulitzer Prize winning work this story achieved in the New Yorker spun off into the #metoo movement which changed the world as we know it. 

After dusting his hands of Weinstein, Rich McHugh heard there was another system of power... this time a church called Hillsong. 

What he discovered was another Hollywood.

Please don't miss this important episode of #leavinghillsong!

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Alcohol is not Brian H's friend so why is drinking so rampant in Hillsong life? 

And what has changed since the old days when not a drop should be drunk? Or a pastor? 

Grace and I continue our discussions on what the is going on recently in HS and its culture and it gets a little heated!

Join us for more chat about #leavinghillsong

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Grace and I (both Social Work grads and former Hillsong people) wanted to catch up on the who's who and who's where of Hillsong.  Cos we've both been a bit MIA.

Join us as we attempt to make sense of some leaders' decisions by reporting and trying to attach some social work theory or bandaids to what is going on. 

Over 2 episodes we discuss life development stages, mental health, gender, tulips and so much more. 

So grab a cup of coffee or tea or the sacramental wine and let's talk tulips! 

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Leavers, Believers, and the rest of the world: WOW

did you know this stuff? I sure as heck didn't and you can hear the excitement in my voice. 11 year old me had so much fun in this snooping world of spying on the bad guys. 

Barry Bowen from Trinity Foundation (trinityfi.org) walks us right through a Form 990 of TBN the cable channel and shows us all the revenue they've disclosed. 

We go snooping through bizpedia and then discuss the red flags you should look for when assessing a church!

Each moment is as cool as the last so don't miss this stunning finale of 

THE MONEY TRAIL

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Well, goodness me! What a ride The Money Trail is becoming!

In Part 2, Barry Bowen from the Trinity Foundation covers issues including:

- fraud 

- board structures 

- property searches and data bases for church ownership 

- income streams 

- music, music, music

- copyrighting your sermon and much more

Do not miss

Part 2 of

THE MONEY TRAIL !

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Oh baby, baby, it's a wild world. It's hard to get by just upon a smile. But it helps!

WELCOME TO THE SPECIAL EDITION OF LEAVING HILLSONG THE TELEVANGELIST HUNTING EDITION!

BARRY BOWEN FROM THE TRINITY FOUNDATION in Texas talks you through the way corporate structures, sneaky shifty boards, and limited liability helps evangelists flourish and propagate with little interruption. 

In this episode we cover:

- unexplained deaths around TV evangelists

- revenue disclosure or lack thereof

- money laundering, does Hillsong have off shore bank accounts? 

- where Daddy Lentz fits in to all of this.. with TBN..

It's fascinating stuff, so pull up your sofa and listen in.. don't miss:

THE MONEY TRAIL 

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One Roberta Houston, AKA Bobbie or Mother Dove (official cult name) is the next character #leavinghillsong. And it looks like she did not go peacefully in the night. 

Brian had a tantrum online about it, just about 8 o'clink, and then the Board, whoever the heck they even are, wrote a thinly veiled swipe back and Grace and I couldn't resist. 

So set your hair in curlers, and get ready to hang over the back fence with us, as we say bye bye Bobbie and wonder where their successors, sons, and Rolexes will end up. 

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There's been a lot of changes behind the Board Room doors at Hillsong. 

Our Chief Source, Saucey/BBQ Sauce/theSauce walks us through what the moves the board have made, who's who in this zoo and who's zooming who? 

Where are the elders, who's behind the changes and what does it all mean? 

Tonight we're in the board room. 

Hillsong has been playing Monopoly for way too long. 

Who's the little dog? and the guy with the hat? 

It looks like someone's missing.. so pull up an executive chair as  the Sauce explains who's been playing Board Games and why... 

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In this bonus episode, Grace and I have a look at a detailed statement from a former Hillsong pastor in Norway and a letter from [email protected] that says sorry, almost,.. 

Come chat!!

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The week ending 27 March 2022 concluded with the 3rd resignation of a pastor. The 7 days prior had seen a board member, and at least 2 pastors resign.. most notably the Big Eagle himself as he used to be affectionately known, Brian Houston ... 

Join 'Grace' a former member of ten years of Hillsong who is working on a Masters in Social work and me to look at the statements from Hillsong and what they might have meant .. then and now.. 

This one's worth cake... and we'll talk about that.

Talk then!! 

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On March 10 2022 I was arrested after attending a court mention of Brian Houston's

By the following week everything at Hillsong had changed. 

Join us as we discuss what Brian did next or last or didn't do, my 2nd arrest connected with Hillsong, and what might happen next or not. We go over the Global Board's letter of response. 

And we have a lot of questions. Special guest:

Rev Michael Bones muso, human rights activist and law degree holder last from the Baby or the Bathwater!

Come chat!

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Is Brian Houston #leavinghillsong? 

What does it mean that he 'stepped aside' or was it 'down'? 

Now what? 

Join me and my very clever colleague and source  for this fantastic discussion about how Brian C Houston came to be in the Assemblies of God movement, why he's left, and what his life will be like after...

We also discus what the organisation looks like and well, who's the boss? 

DON'T MISS THIS EXCITING CLOSE UP RETURN TO LEAVING HILLSONG!

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Happy Holidays!

In this gift for you, we discuss what happens when, after leaving Hillsong, Noemi asks some queer questions and asks for straight answers from the Men Who Said They Knew About God. 

Then we talk about why and how Carl Lentz was fired and the impact that had on his immediate followers...

We also talk about resilience and what got Noemi through. 

Don't miss this episode for controversy and healing tips! Something for everyone! 

Oh and stay safe ❤️❤️

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Hillsong says 'Everybody's Welcome'.  But for years the question has dragged on in celeb and mainstream media:

Is everybody welcome in the same way? 

How are members of the LGBT community treated? The pink dollars are welcome but what about the humans behind them? 

Noemi Uribe shares her experiences of asking these questions to her pastors and leaders in Boston as part of the East Coast 'campus' of Hillsong. 

Due to the deliberately vague avoidance, she received very clear answers and the impact of this treatment was nearly catastrophic. 

This very tender episode of Leaving Hillsong discusses sexuality, gender, and discrimination in the church context and how that leads to severe physical and mental health results for some. Noemi so rightly says, "Bad theology kills".  So please take care when listening. 

She shares how she learned, gained support, and escaped the prison of this thinking and how she gained her freedom. 

Make sure you join us for this recent and startling set of events so generously shared by this brave young woman of colour as we talk about #leavinghillsong as a matter of saving lives. 

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"Reverend" Bones is an indie musician, songwriter and singer based in Canberra. He's a passionate climate change activist and a law graduate, working long hours when he's not playing with the Exvangelicals. 

It's a very different life for this 30-something than ten years ago when he first ventured out of his hometown, into the city,  and the study of philosophy and law at university. 

Michael, as his mother calls him, speaks strongly from his own experience and professional insights about healing, changing, evolving, and adapting to a world and a world view without Christianity or church or a hope of heaven, even when that world of Pentecostal signs and wonders has caused you endless trauma that played out with very real impacts on a young man's life. 

Don't miss the Baby or the Bathwater. After all, what IS more important?!!

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Yolandi Bosch is one of the handful of people who have ever spoken out in print against Hillsong's practices and ethics. 

She has featured in the New York Post, Business Insider, Vanity Fair, and is rumoured to be have been interviewed for an upcoming Hollywood special. 

But at what cost? Did Hillsong sue? Will they sue? 

Is speaking up and 'doing the right thing' really worth it in the real world? 

Join us for this very important discussion about protecting other people. 

Closing track by Gospel Train

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Given that 90% of Hillsong College students in Australia are international, it's kinda important to know how those students are treated and what the actual education is like. 

Yolandi Bosch found out when after saving up, she applied to Hillsong College to further her skills and her relationship with God. 

What she found was she had paid to be part of an entertainment machine, where students were graded according to their marketability, and if they had none, they paid to be rejected. 

Far from home, seriously ill at one stage and forced to volunteer with a fever, Yolandi describes the place that had seemed so appealing and so godly. 

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Shaun Nemorin is a narrative therapist, a former UNHCR staffer, with a Masters in Social Work, specialising in trauma. 

But before that, he was a boy looking for community in connection in a place he now calls The Institution.

Join us for this conversation and settle in for an overdose of insight, expertise, and lived experience. 

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In Part 2, Fiona leaves the revival centre movement and goes out into the big, not so bad world. 

This episode looks briefly at the domestic violence model and leaving a pentecostal church, so please be prepared. 

And Fiona also walks us through how she took social action and was successful! keeping kids in schools safer from the Pentecostal Agenda

It's a great listen, so please do join us!

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This week we hear from Fiona about a church not unlike Hillsong, but not Hillsong.

Fiona grew up in Melbourne in several pentecostal churches including the Christian Revival Centres. 

The experiences had a profound impact on her life as she rose through the ranks to pastor and leader and she discusses those times and what it was like to come out as gay in a place with a pentecostal agenda. 

Please join us!

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When disgraced pastor Frank Houston left the Hillsong off shoot church he'd been sent to, Nathan Zamprogno did soon after, too. 

But not before he'd seen the harsh reality of where church and state collided. Nathan shares his story of leaving Hillsong and how a political party that was supposed to have nothing to do with the church, made its influence very clear. 

Join us for Part 2 of a Bald - faced Lie, There were some tech difficulties with a previous version so if you missed the details:

Nathan has been a social commentator on the intersections of faith and politics for many years.

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Nathan Zamprogno was a devoted member of a church that was a Hillsong offshoot, about half an hour's drive away. 

He discusses the impact those years of devotion had on him before he ended up #leavinghillsong. 

But before he had, he was witness to a visiting pastor who appeared to stay. His name was Frank Houston, and it seemed strange he should be in such a small town so far away from the public eye.  And the reasons were more than sinister.

Please join us as Nathan and I discuss all things youth and young adult church on this episode of Leaving Hillsong!

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Emily grew up in a Christian home singing the songs of Hillsong in church. When she got the chance to actually be in the  band after moving to London, she jumped at it. 

Over time, Emily realised things were changing. She talks to us about those changes, including the effects of Religious Trauma Syndrome in this episode. 

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Jo tells us her happy ending with Ben and the baby/s 🙂 and explains what life was like working every day for a church of 800 people in a volunteer musician role. 

A very informative episode about a woman's experience in the music world as a worship leader for a church plant of Hillsong's

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