Lenny’s Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

Shaun Clowes is the chief product officer at Confluent and former CPO at Salesforce’s MuleSoft and at Metromile. He was also the first head of growth at Atlassian, where he led product for Jira Agile and built the first-ever B2B growth team. In our conversation, we discuss:

• Why most PMs are bad, and how to fix this

• Why great AI products are all about the data

• Why he changed his mind about being data-driven

• How to build your B2B growth team

• How to choose your next career stop

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Enterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth

• BuildBetter—AI for product teams

• Wix Studio—The web creation platform built for agencies

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-great-ai-products-are-all-about-the-data-shaun-clowes

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Where to find Shaun Clowes:

• X: https://x.com/ShaunMClowes

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shaun-clowes-80795014/

• Website: https://shaunclowes.com/about-shaun

• Reforge: https://www.reforge.com/profiles/shaun-clowes

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Shaun’s background

(05:08) The state of product management

(09:33) Becoming a 10x product manager

(13:23) Specific ways to leverage AI in product management

(17:15) Feedback rivers

(19:20) AI's impact on data management

(24:35) The future of enterprise businesses with AI

(35:41) Data-driven decision-making

(45:50) Building effective growth teams

(50:18) The evolution of product-led growth

(56:16) Career insights and decision-making

(01:07:45) Failure corner

(01:12:32) Final thoughts and lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Steve Blank’s website: https://steveblank.com/

• Getting Out of the Building. 2 Minutes to See Why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbMgWr1YVfs

• OpenAI: https://openai.com/

• Claude: https://claude.ai/

• Sachin Rekhi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sachinrekhi/

• Video: Building Your Product Intuition with Feedback Rivers: https://www.sachinrekhi.com/video-building-your-product-intuition-with-feedback-rivers

• Confluent: https://www.confluent.io

• Workday: https://www.workday.com/

• Lenny and Friends Summit: https://lennyssummit.com/

• A conversation with OpenAI’s CPO Kevin Weil, Anthropic’s CPO Mike Krieger, and Sarah Guo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxkvVZua28k

• Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com/

• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

• Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com/

• Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

• Ashby: https://www.ashbyhq.com/

• Occam’s razor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

• Breaking the rules of growth: Why Shopify bans KPIs, optimizes for churn, prioritizes intuition, and builds toward a 100-year vision | Archie Abrams (VP Product, Head of Growth at Shopify): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/shopifys-growth-archie-abrams

• Charlie Munger quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/11903426-show-me-the-incentive-and-i-ll-show-you-the-outcome

• Elena Verna on how B2B growth is changing, product-led growth, product-led sales, why you should go freemium not trial, what features to make free, and much more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/elena-verna-on-why-every-company

• The ultimate guide to product-led sales | Elena Verna: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-product-led

• Metromile: https://www.metromile.com/

• Tom Kennedy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kennedy-37356b2b/

• Building Wiz: the fastest-growing startup in history | Raaz Herzberg (CMO and VP Product Strategy): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-wiz-raaz-herzberg

• Wiz: https://www.wiz.io

• Colin Powell’s 40-70 rule: https://www.42courses.com/blog/home/2019/12/10/colin-powells-40-70-rule

• Detroiters on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80165019

• Glean: https://www.glean.com/

• Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Kick-Ass-Without-Humanity/dp/1250103509

• Listen: Five Simple Tools to Meet Your Everyday Parenting Challenges: https://www.amazon.com/Listen-Simple-Everyday-Parenting-Challenges/dp/0997459301

• Empress Falls Canyon and abseiling: https://bmac.com.au/blue-mountains-canyoning/empress-falls-canyon-and-abseiling

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Recommended books:

• The Lean Startup: How Today’s Entrepreneurs Use Continuous Innovation to Create Radically Successful Businesses: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation/dp/0307887898

• Inspired: How to Create Products Customers Love: https://www.amazon.com/Inspired-Create-Products-Customers-Love/dp/0981690408

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Marc Benioff is the co-founder and CEO of Salesforce, the second-largest software company in the world. He started programming at age 15, selling his first program for $75, and went on to build Salesforce into a company worth more than $300 billion that also owns Slack, Tableau, Quip, and MuleSoft. Marc is known as a marketing legend, and is now leading Salesforce into the era of AI agents. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The importance of maintaining a beginner’s mind

• His approach to product launches and marketing

• Managing through tough times and layoffs

• His relationship with Steve Jobs and lessons learned

• Why Salesforce is betting big on AI agents

• Many stories from his entrepreneurial roller coaster

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Cloudinary—The foundational technology for all images and video on the internet

• Enterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth

• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-founder-marc-benioff

—

Where to find Marc Benioff:

• X: https://x.com/benioff

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbenioff

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Marc Benioff and Salesforce

(03:54) Marc’s early career and domain names

(05:59) The App Store story and lessons from Steve Jobs

(15:18) Lessons from launching Salesforce

(22:03) The importance of keeping a beginner’s mindset

(29:53) Why Marc calls Salesforce the “25-year startup”

(31:47) Agentforce

(36:09) Why Marc says AI is the defining technology of our lifetime

(40:12) AI’s impact on the workforce

(42:31) Entrepreneurs need to be like conductors

(46:02) Failure corner

(50:32) The future of AI agents

(56:34) Final thoughts and farewell

—

Referenced:

• Bill.com: https://www.bill.com

• App Store: https://www.apple.com/app-store/

• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com

• Oracle: https://www.oracle.com

• Larry Ellison on X: https://x.com/larryellison

• Siebel Systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siebel_Systems

• Saba Software: https://talentedlearning.com/lms-vendor-directory/saba-software

• Tom Siebel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomassiebel

• Avon: https://www.avon.com

• Salesforce Chief Has Pulled Some Crazy Stunts: https://www.businessinsider.com/marc-benioff-salesforcecom-chief-has-pulled-some-crazy-stunts-2012-3

•  Matthew McConaughey on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/officiallymcconaughey

• Woody Harrelson on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/woodyharrelson

• “Ask More of AI” with Matthew McConaughey: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnobS_RgN7JaxOsLD8WH0I9E6osK3UrfI

• Marc’s tweet about the ad with McConaughey and Harrelson: https://x.com/Benioff/status/1866175950062239784

• Chris Rock on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chrisrock

• Sushi Iwa: http://www.sushiiwa.jp/en/

• Ryoanji Temple Rock Garden: https://www.japan.travel/en/spot/1145/

• Neil Young Archives on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/neilyoungarchives

• Mount Tam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Tamalpais

• Spirit Rock: https://www.spiritrock.org

• Jack Kornfield: https://www.spiritrock.org/teachers/jack-kornfield

• Agentforce: https://www.salesforce.com/form/agentforce/demo

• Minority Report on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Minority-Report-Tom-Cruise/dp/B00A2FSSHK

• Peter Schwartz on X: https://x.com/peterschwartz2

• UCSF Health: https://www.ucsfhealth.org

• A.I. Chatbots Defeated Doctors at Diagnosing Illness: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/17/health/chatgpt-ai-doctors-diagnosis.html

• Does AI improve doctors’ diagnoses? Study puts it to the test: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/11/241113123419.htm

• A.I. Will Transform the Global Economy—if Humans Let It: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/07/special-series/ai-transform-global-economy.html

• Wargames on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Wargames-Dabney-Coleman/dp/B0011EQBOS

• Her on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Her-Joaquin-Phoenix/dp/B00KATY250

• AI (Einstein) at Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/in/artificial-intelligence

• Salesforce Signs Definitive Agreement to Acquire Airkit.ai: https://www.salesforce.com/news/stories/salesforce-signs-definitive-agreement-to-acquire-airkit-ai

• Salesforce Buys Big Data Startup RelateIQ for Up to $390M: https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/11/salesforce-buys-big-data-startup-relateiq-for-up-to-390m

• Salesforce to cut workforce by 10% after hiring ‘too many people’ during the pandemic: https://techcrunch.com/2023/01/04/salesforce-to-cut-workforce-by-10-after-hiring-too-many-people-during-the-pandemic

• Michael Dell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mdell

• Bret Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brettaylor

• Akio Toyoda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akio_Toyoda

• Kaizen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen

• TRS-80: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80

• CLOAD Magazine: https://archive.org/details/cload_newsletter

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Recommended books:

• Ghost Fleet: A Novel of the Next World War: https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Fleet-Novel-Next-World/dp/054470505X

• Behind the Cloud: The Untold Story of How Salesforce.com Went from Idea to Billion-Dollar Company—and Revolutionized an Industry: https://www.amazon.com/Behind-Cloud-Salesforce-com-Billion-Dollar-Company/dp/0470521163

• Trailblazer: The Power of Business as the Greatest Platform for Change: https://www.amazon.com/Trailblazer-Business-Greatest-Platform-Change/dp/1984825194

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Farhan Thawar is the head of engineering at Shopify, where he oversees more than 1,000 engineers and a platform that powers over 10% of all U.S. e-commerce. Before Shopify, he was VP of engineering at Pivotal Labs and Xtreme Labs, and co-founder of Helpful.com. In our conversation, Farhan shares:

• Why choosing the harder path leads to better outcomes

• How to create intensity within your org (without burnout)

• Why every company should be embracing pair programming

• How he hires without interviewing

• How he built the world’s largest internship program

• His mission to create a “crafter’s paradise” for engineers

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• DX—A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity

• Persona—A global leader in digital identity verification

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-shopify-builds-a-high-intensity-culture-farhan-thawer

—

Where to find Farhan Thawar:

• X: https://x.com/fnthawar

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fnthawar

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Farhan’s background

(05:38) Choosing the hard path

(09:37) Getting comfortable with looking dumb

(13:20) Lessons from working with visionaries

(19:19) Creating intensity in organizations

(22:06) The power of pair programming

(29:18) Shopify’s culture of intensity

(37:18) Meeting Armageddon: revolutionizing company meetings

(39:46) Reducing distractions

(41:10) Deleting 1M+ lines of code

(49:05) Three buckets of building

(57:45) Remote work and trust battery

(01:00:29) Finding stability in uncomfortable times

(01:03:14) Hiring philosophy

(01:11:41) Internship programs and co-op systems

(01:15:32) Lessons from managing 120 direct reports

(01:20:40) Failure corner

(01:27:46) Lightning round and closing thoughts

—

Referenced:

• The Steve Jobs quote about connecting dots: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/463176-you-can-t-connect-the-dots-looking-forward-you-can-only

• Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/

• GitHub: https://github.com/

• Farhan’s “questions to ask” framework: https://x.com/fnthawar/status/1514193402828574721

• Palantir: https://www.palantir.com/

• Joe Liemandt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liemandt

• Chamath Palihapitya: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamath_Palihapitiya

• Xtreme Labs: https://www.xtremelabs.io

• Parkinson’s law: https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-parkinsons-law-6674423

• Pair programming: https://dev.to/documatic/pair-programming-best-practices-and-tools-154j

• Cody Fauser on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/codyfauser

• How Shopify builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-shopify-builds-product

• Chaos Monkey: We look at Shopify’s new ‘culture of focus’: https://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/shopify-chaos-monkey-meetings-culture-deann-evans

• Empowering devs with AI: How Shopify made GitHub Copilot core to its culture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVKBwcm5dbw&t=2318s

• Tobi Lütke of Shopify: Powering a Team with a ‘Trust Battery’: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/business/tobi-lutke-of-shopify-powering-a-team-with-a-trust-battery.html

• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach

• Stop Being Deceived by Interviews When You’re Hiring: https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesleadershipforum/2012/02/07/stop-being-deceived-by-interviews-when-youre-hiring/

• Shopify’s made the Life Story a major part of their interview: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39294140

• Internships at Shopify: https://internships.shopify.com

• Nick Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nick-adams-32b28139

• React Native: https://reactnative.dev

• Swift: https://www.swift.org

• Acquired podcast: The Mark Zuckerberg interview: https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/the-mark-zuckerberg-interview

• The Power of Performance Reviews: Use This System to Become a Better Manager: https://review.firstround.com/the-power-of-performance-reviews-use-this-system-to-become-a-better-manager

• Airbnb’s Vlad Loktev on embracing chaos, inquiry over advocacy, poking the bear, and “impact, impact, impact” (Partner at Index Ventures, Airbnb GM/VP Product): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/impact-impact-impact-vlad-loktev

• The Secret to a Great Planning Process—Lessons from Airbnb and Eventbrite: https://review.firstround.com/the-secret-to-a-great-planning-process-lessons-from-airbnb-and-eventbrite

• How to do great work: https://www.paulgraham.com/greatwork.html

• Challengers on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Challengers-Luca-Guadagnino/dp/B0CX5MZ9M4

• Halt and Catch Fire on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Halt-Catch-Fire-Season-1/dp/B0CKXZNT96

• Meta Ray-Bans: https://www.meta.com/smart-glasses/shop-all

• Making Meta | Andrew ‘Boz’ Bosworth (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-meta-andrew-boz-bosworth-cto

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Recommended books:

• The Undoing Project: A Friendship That Changed Our Minds: https://www.amazon.com/Undoing-Project-Friendship-Changed-Minds/dp/0393254593

• Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World: https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized-World/dp/0735214484

• Manna: Two Visions of Humanity’s Future: https://www.amazon.com/Manna-Two-Visions-Humanitys-Future-ebook/dp/B007HQH67U

• Business Adventures: Twelve Classic Tales from the World of Wall Street: https://www.amazon.com/Business-Adventures-Twelve-Classic-Street/dp/1504000021

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Jackson Shuttleworth is a Group PM at Duolingo, where he leads the retention team and the powerful streak feature. The streak feature, which gamifies consecutive days of learning, has been Duolingo’s most important and innovative growth lever and a key driver of their growth to a $14 billion business with almost 600 million users. In our conversation, we dive deep into the history and lessons of this feature:

• The evolution of the streak feature

• Biggest insights from over 600 streak-related experiments

• Biggest specific wins and misses along the way

• Key principles for building effective streak mechanics

• How to operate a high-velocity product team

• Tips for building engaging notification systems

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-product-duolingo-streaks

—

Where to find Jackson Shuttleworth:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackson-shuttleworth/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Jackson’s background and an overview of Duolingo’s streak feature

(06:00) The impact of streaks on Duolingo’s success

(09:58) The origin and evolution of streaks

(14:50) Key experiments and insights

(24:38) User psychology and engagement strategies

(28:36) Duolingo’s product review structure

(33:07) Designing for clarity and adaptability

(46:59) Developing the Streak Freeze feature

(50:47) Balancing monetization and retention

(54:08) Notification strategies

(58:15) The Perfect Streak feature

(01:00:40) Enhancing the user experience 

(01:04:47) Team operations and experimentation

(01:18:57) Who can benefit from streaks

(01:21:00) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Duolingo streaks: https://duolingo.fandom.com/wiki/Streak

• How to make learning as addictive as social media: https://www.ted.com/talks/luis_von_ahn_how_to_make_learning_as_addictive_as_social_media?subtitle=en

• Luis von Ahn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luis-von-ahn-duolingo/

• FarmVille: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FarmVille

• Royal Match: https://www.dreamgames.com/games/royal-match

• How Duolingo reignited user growth: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-duolingo-reignited-user-growth

• You’re on fire! Or, how we brought the streak milestone to life: https://blog.duolingo.com/streak-milestone-design-animation/

• Duolingo Doubles Down on Design and Animation with Acquisition of Hobbes: https://investors.duolingo.com/news-releases/news-release-details/duolingo-doubles-down-design-and-animation-acquisition-hobbes

• Hobbes: https://www.hobbes.work/

• Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

• Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com/

• Bing Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/binggordon/

• Peloton: https://www.onepeloton.com/

• Bluey on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/series/bluey/1xy9TAOQ0M3r

• Emily in Paris on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81037371

• Multi-position ladders at Home Depot: https://www.homedepot.com/b/Building-Materials-Ladders-Multi-Position-Ladders/N-5yc1vZasew

—

Recommended books:

• A Guide to Midwestern Conversation: https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Midwestern-Conversation-Taylor-Phillips/dp/1984861336

• Fate Is the Hunter: A Pilot’s Memoir: https://www.amazon.com/Fate-Hunter-Ernest-K-Gann/dp/0671636030

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Seth Godin is a legend. He’s a marketer, teacher, entrepreneur, and author of more than 20 books, including Purple Cow, Permission Marketing, and Linchpin. He also writes one of the most popular and longest-running blogs in the world (approaching publishing 10,000 in a row!) and continues to shape how we think about marketing, brand, product, and creating lasting change in the world. In our conversation, we discuss:

• How to build remarkable products that spread

• The four critical strategic choices that determine your future

• How to develop good taste and high standards

• The role of tension in great strategy

• How Seth used Claude to write his newest book

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• DX—A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

• Paragon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/seth-godins-tactics-for-building-remarkable-products

—

Where to find Seth Godin:

• Blog: http://seths.blog/

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethgodin

• Website: https://www.sethgodin.com

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Seth’s background

(05:17) Understanding good taste and upholding high standards

(08:09) Become the best at whatever you do

(09:48) Seth’s journey as a product manager

(14:09) What people often get wrong when building products

(16:00) Building a brand in the age of AI

(19:04) Using AI to enhance writing

(22:40) Four critical elements for an effective strategy

(27:38) The role of tension in strategy

(29:15) The concept of the purple cow

(33:11) "Safe is risky"

(34:56) The power of systems

(37:07) Better waves make better surfers

(38:10) Rebranding vs. re-logoing

(43:07) Empathetic leadership

(44:14) Conclusion and farewell

—

Referenced:

• Seth Godin on the Tim Ferriss Show: https://tim.blog/2024/03/20/seth-godin-3/

• Persuasive communication and managing up | Wes Kao (Maven, Seth Godin, Section4): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/persuasive-communication-wes-kao

• Spinnaker: https://spinnaker.io

• Ray Bradbury: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Bradbury

• Arthur C. Clarke: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_C._Clarke

• Isaac Asimov: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Asimov

• Roger Zelazny: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Zelazny

• Herbie Hancock: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbie_Hancock

• Fahrenheit 451 (game): https://www.filfre.net/2013/09/fahrenheit-451-the-game/

• RTFM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM#

• Intercom: https://www.intercom.com

• Claude: https://claude.ai

• ChatGPT: https://chatgpt.com

• Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com

• Steam: https://store.steampowered.com

• P.F. Flyers: https://pfflyers.com

• Steve Blank’s website: https://steveblank.com

• Marissa Mayer on X: https://x.com/marissamayer

• Jaguar unveils new logo ahead of electric relaunch: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgr0pw00n7qo

• IHOP Becomes IHOb, the International House of ... Burgers: https://www.npr.org/2018/06/11/618844977/ihop-becomes-ihob-the-international-house-of-burgers

• Oreo’s Super Bowl Power-Outage Tweet Was 18 Months in the Making: https://www.businessinsider.com/oreos-super-bowl-power-outage-tweet-was-18-months-in-the-making-2013-3

• Tesla’s New ‘Ludicrous Mode’ Makes the Model S a Supercar: https://www.wired.com/2015/07/teslas-new-ludicrous-mode-makes-model-s-supercar

—

Recommended books:

• This Is Strategy: Make Better Plans (Create a Strategy to Elevate Your Career, Community & Life): https://www.amazon.com/This-Strategy-Better-Elevate-Community/dp/B0D47T8S7N• Purple Cow: Transform Your Business by Being Remarkable: https://www.amazon.com/Purple-Cow-New-Transform-Remarkable/dp/1591843170

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Jonathan Lowenhar is the co-founder of Enjoy The Work, an executive coaching firm that helps founders become great CEOs. Over the past decade, Enjoy The Work has supported over 165 founders on their journey to becoming better leaders. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The difference between being a founder and being a CEO

• Common failure modes for startup CEOs and how to avoid them

• The four key elements of an effective go-to-market strategy

• A framework for evaluating potential acquisitions: the magic box paradigm

• How to find and hire the best people

• How to build a repeatable GTM machine

• Why founders need to trust their intuition

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

• OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-a-great-founder-becomes-a-great-ceo-jonathan-lowenhar

—

Where to find Jonathan Lowenhar:

• X: https://x.com/jlowenhar

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jlowenhar/

• Enjoy the Work: https://etw.live/lenny

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Jonathan’s background

(02:56) Understanding the rhythm of well-run companies

(09:20) The founder mode vs. manager mode debate

(12:05) Common company failure modes

(13:36) Common CEO failure modes

(25:25) The magic box paradigm for selling your startup

(43:07) Advice for founders on building relationships

(49:28) Hiring and building an amazing team

(57:11) Types of executives: architect, optimizer, scaler

(59:45) Working backward in hiring

(01:02:54) Four key components of a go-to-market strategy

(01:15:01) Trusting founder intuition

(01:19:12) Founder vs. CEO: different roles, different skills

(01:20:52) Closing thoughts and lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Founder mode memes: https://techcrunch.com/2024/09/04/those-founder-mode-memes-keep-coming/

• Founder mode: https://paulgraham.com/foundermode.html

• “Founder Mode” Is a Dangerous Red Herring: https://enjoythework.com/founder-mode-is-a-dangerous-red-herring/

• Magic Box Paradigm: A Framework for Startup Acquisitions: https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Box-Paradigm-Framework-Acquisitions/dp/0692778047

• Facebook Buys Instagram for $1 Billion: https://archive.nytimes.com/dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/04/09/facebook-buys-instagram-for-1-billion/

• Chris Voss on X: https://x.com/fbinegotiator

• Who: https://www.amazon.com/Who-Geoff-Smart/dp/0345504194

• Brian Chesky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianchesky/

• Joe Gebbia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jgebbia/

• Nathan Blecharczyk on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blecharczyk/

• 4 questions Shreyas Doshi wishes he’d asked himself sooner | Former PM leader at Stripe, Twitter, Google: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/shreyas-doshi-live

• Traction: How Any Startup Can Achieve Explosive Customer Growth: https://www.amazon.com/Traction-Startup-Achieve-Explosive-Customer/dp/1591848369

• Adam Grant on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adammgrant/

• This will make you a better decision maker | Annie Duke (author of “Thinking in Bets” and “Quit,” former pro poker player): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-better-decisions-annie-duke

• How to identify your ideal customer profile (ICP): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-identify-your-ideal-customer

• How to get your marketing team to drive more impact: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-get-your-marketing-team-to

• The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable: https://www.amazon.com/Five-Dysfunctions-Team-Leadership-Fable/dp/0787960756

• The Untethered Soul: The Journey Beyond Yourself: https://www.amazon.com/Untethered-Soul-Journey-Beyond-Yourself/dp/1572245379

• Will & Harper on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81760197

• Slow Horses on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/slow-horses/umc.cmc.2szz3fdt71tl1ulnbp8utgq5o

• Aura frames: https://auraframes.com/

• Augie studio: https://augie.studio/

• Harrah’s Entertainment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrah%27s_Entertainment

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Michael Margolis has been a UX research partner at Google Ventures (GV) for nearly 15 years. He has developed a unique approach to helping startups identify their “bullseye customer”—the specific subset of their target market who initially is most likely to adopt their product. Michael has conducted over 300 hands-on research sprints with GV portfolio companies across various industries and helped develop the “design sprint” process made famous by the book Sprint. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The step-by-step process of running a bullseye customer sprint

• The most common mistakes founders make when picking their first customers

• Practical tips for conducting effective customer interviews

• How to create simple but effective prototypes for user research

• The power of “watch parties” in aligning teams around customer insights

• How to apply these methods beyond typical tech startups

—

Brought to you by:

• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

• Paragon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want

• Enterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/finding-your-bullseye-customer-michael-margolis

—

Where to find Michael Margolis:

• X: https://x.com/mmargolis

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mmargolis/

• Website: https://www.learnmorefaster.com/

• Medium: https://medium.com/@mmargolis

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Michael’s background

(09:11) Bullseye customers vs. ideal customer profiles (ICPs)

(12:32) An overview of the bullseye customer sprint

(20:56) When to use the bullseye customer sprint

(22:19) Step one: Agree on goals and key questions

(23:48) Step two: Define your bullseye customer

(25:52) The importance of a narrow target audience

(29:00) An example of step two in action

(38:24) Narrowing attributes and exclusion criteria

(43:28) Step three: Recruiting and compensating participants

(56:11) Step four: Creating effective prototypes

(01:01:10) Step five: Drafting your interview guide

(01:08:49) Step six: The watch party method

(01:19:40) Common pitfalls and final thoughts

(01:24:43) Closing thoughts and where to find Michael

—

Referenced:

• Learn More Faster: How to Find Your Bullseye Customer and Their Perfect Product: https://www.learnmorefaster.com

• Alcoa: https://www.alcoa.com

• Dupont: https://www.dupont.com

• Ericsson: https://www.ericsson.com

• Google Ventures: https://www.gv.com/

• Kate Aronowitz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katearonowitz/

• Vanessa Cho on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/veecho/

• How to kickstart and scale a consumer business—Step 2: Identify your super-specific who: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/consumer-business-super-specific-who

• When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/when-enough-is-enough-andy-johns

• Zipline for health care: https://www.flyzipline.com/solutions/healthcare

• Jobs to Be Done framework: https://www.christenseninstitute.org/theory/jobs-to-be-done

• User Interviews: https://www.userinterviews.com/

• Respondent: https://www.respondent.io/

• Flatiron Health: https://flatiron.com/

• How to identify your ideal customer profile (ICP): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-identify-your-ideal-customer

• Gong: https://www.gong.io

• Linear: https://linear.app

• Gusto: https://gusto.com/

• Humble Inquiry: The Gentle Art of Asking Instead of Telling: https://bookshop.org/p/books/humble-inquiry-second-edition-the-gentle-art-of-asking-instead-of-telling-edgar-h-schein/14739375

• Figma: https://www.figma.com

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Jen Abel is the co-founder of JJELLYFISH, where she and her team have worked with over 300 early-stage founders to learn how to sell, do early customer discovery, and set up a repeatable sales motion on the way to their first $1M ARR. In our conversation, Jen shares:

• Why founder-led sales is so crucial early on

• The sales process, step by step

• How to craft effective outreach messages

• Where to find leads

• What three channels work best for outreach

• What to say on your first call

• How to maintain momentum

• Strategies for navigating procurement and closing deals

• Common pitfalls in the sales process and how to avoid them

—

Brought to you by:

• Brave Search—A smarter way to search

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

• Paragon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/master-founder-led-sales-jen-abel

—

Where to find Jen Abel:

• X: https://x.com/jjen_abel

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/earlystagesale

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Jen’s background

(02:20) The importance of founder-led sales

(08:24) The steps of a sales cycle

(12:01) Tactics for effective cold outreach

(16:47) Conversion rate vs. win rate

(20:20) The time it takes to find product-market fit

(23:06) Identifying and engaging prospects

(30:58) Nailing the first phone call

(34:14) Buying vs. selling

(38:08) Testing the questions to ask

(41:57) Avoiding common sales questions and securing the second call

(43:08) Co-authoring with customers

(45:06) Time-boxing service contracts

(49:20) Why you should avoid demos on the first call

(51:05) Dealing with procurement

(54:22) The power of enterprise sales

(58:14) Getting a signature

(01:00:15) Choosing a focus and overcoming sales challenges

(01:02:19) General timelines

(01:04:27) Final thoughts and advice

(01:13:32) Working with Jen

—

Referenced:

• Wiz: https://www.wiz.io/

• JJELLYFISH: https://www.jjellyfish.com/

• Clay: https://www.clay.com/

• A guide for finding product-market fit in B2B: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/finding-product-market-fit

• Airtable: https://www.airtable.com/

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• GitHub: https://github.com/

• Vanta: https://www.vanta.com/

• Christine Cacioppo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ccacioppo/

• Glengarry Glen Ross: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104348/

• A step-by-step guide to crafting a sales pitch that wins | April Dunford (author of Obviously Awesome and Sales Pitch): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-step-by-step-guide-to-crafting

• Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win: https://www.amazon.com/Sales-Pitch-Craft-Story-Stand-ebook/dp/B0CHY6BNDN

• Sprig: https://sprig.com/

• Zip: https://zip.co/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Amjad Masad is the co-founder and CEO of Replit, a browser-based coding environment that allows anyone to write and deploy code. Replit has 34 million users globally and is one of the fastest-growing developer communities in the world. Prior to Replit, Amjad worked at Facebook, where he led the JavaScript infrastructure team and contributed to popular open-source developer tools. Additionally, he played a key role as a founding engineer at the online coding school Codecademy. In our conversation, Amjad shares:

• A live demo of Replit in action

• How Replit’s AI agent can build full-stack web applications from a simple text prompt

• The implications of AI-powered development for product managers, designers, and engineers

• How this might reshape companies and careers

• Why being “generative” will become an increasingly valuable skill

• “Amjad’s law” and how learning to debug AI-generated code is becoming ever more valuable

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

• Persona—A global leader in digital identity verification

• LinkedIn Ads—Reach professionals and drive results for your business

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-product-replit-amjad-masad

—

Where to find Amjad Masad:

• X: https://x.com/amasad

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amjadmasad/

• Website: https://amasad.me/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Amjad Masad and Replit

(02:41) The vision and challenges of Replit

(06:50) Replit’s growth and user stories

(10:49) Demo of Replit’s capabilities

(16:51) Building and iterating with Replit

(25:04) Real-world applications and use cases

(30:13) The technology stack

(33:48) The evolution of Replit and its capabilities

(39:36) The future of AI in software development

(44:04) Skills for the future: generative thinking and coding

(47:26) Amjad’s law

(50:36) Replit’s new developments and future plans

—

Referenced:

• Replit: https://replit.com/

• Cursor: https://www.cursor.com

• Aman Mathur on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aman-mathur/

• Node: https://nodejs.org/en

• Claude: https://claude.ai/

• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

• Wasm: https://webassembly.org/

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Codecademy: https://www.codecademy.com/

• Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/news

• Paul Graham’s website: https://www.paulgraham.com/

• Jevons paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

• Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com/

• Open AI: https://openai.com/

• Amjad’s tweet about “society of models”: https://x.com/amasad/status/1568941103709290496

• About HCI: https://www.designdisciplin.com/p/hci-profession

• Taylor Swift’s website: https://www.taylorswift.com/

• Andrew Wilkinson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/awilkinson/

• Haya Odeh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haya-odeh-b0725928/

• Amjad’s law: https://x.com/snowmaker/status/1847377464705896544

• Ray Kurzweil’s website: https://www.thekurzweillibrary.com/

• God of the gaps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Raaz Herzberg is the chief marketing officer and VP of product strategy at Wiz. Wiz hit $100 million ARR within 18 months (the fastest growth in startup history) and, five years in, is generating over $500 million ARR. It also serves over 45% of the Fortune 100. Raaz was one of the first five employees at Wiz, joining as the first product manager, and helped the team pivot to what may be the most intense PMF in history. Before Wiz, Raaz led security products at Microsoft, including Azure Sentinel. In our conversation, we discuss:

• How Wiz pivoted from their initial idea and found deep product-market fit

• What Raaz learned about listening to customers

• Why she moved from product to marketing, despite no prior experience

• How she thinks differently as a marketer with a product background

• Lessons learned from scaling a hypergrowth startup like Wiz

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

• Rippling—Automate HR, IT, and finance so you can scale faster

• Cloudinary—The foundational technology for all images and video on the internet

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-wiz-raaz-herzberg

—

Where to find Raaz Herzberg:

• X: https://x.com/raazherzberg

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raazh

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Raaz’s background

(02:54) Early challenges and Wiz’s essential pivot

(06:41) Finding product-market fit

(11:31) Lessons from early customer interactions

(14:54) The power in speaking up when you don’t understand something

(17:46) How Wiz pivoted from their initial idea

(23:52) Marketing and leadership insights

(34:12) The challenges of being a marketing leader

(28:05) Following the “heat” in your organization

(30:22) How Raaz found success as CMO

(34:01) Common CMO mistakes

(36:23) Creating noise and standing out

(40:28) Embracing failure and taking risks

(44:53) The importance of clear communication

(48:32) The “dummy” explanation

(51:00) Building trust and company culture

(53:45) Contrarian corner

(56:34) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Wiz: https://www.wiz.io/

• An inside look at Deel’s unprecedented growth | Meltem Kuran Berkowitz (Head of Growth): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-deels-unprecedented

• Velocity over everything: How Ramp became the fastest-growing SaaS startup of all time | Geoff Charles (VP of Product): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/velocity-over-everything-how-ramp

• Assaf Rappaport on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/assafrappaport/

• How LinkedIn became interesting: The inside story | Tomer Cohen (CPO at LinkedIn): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-linkedin-became-interesting-tomer-cohen

• Shardul Shah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shardul-shah-3589062/

• Doug Leone on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-leone-a2714/

• Jeff Horing on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffhoring2009/

• RSA Conference: https://www.rsaconference.com/

• Microsoft acquires Adallom to advance identity and security in the cloud: https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2015/09/08/microsoft-acquires-adallom-to-advance-identity-and-security-in-the-cloud/

• Imposter syndrome: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/imposter-syndrome

• Careers at Wiz: https://www.wiz.io/careers

• Setting the Table: The Transforming Power of Hospitality in Business: https://www.amazon.com/Setting-Table-Transforming-Hospitality-Business/dp/0060742763

• No Rules Rules: Netflix and the Culture of Reinvention: https://www.amazon.com/No-Rules-Netflix-Culture-Reinvention/dp/1984877860/

• Gong: https://www.gong.io/

• The Wire on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-wire

• Raaz’s pen holder recommendation: https://www.paper-republic.com/products/le-loop-penholder

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Aman Khan is Director of Product at Arize AI, an observability company for AI engineers at companies like Uber, Instacart, and Discord. Previously he was an AI Product Manager at Spotify on the ML Platform team, enabling hundreds of engineers to build and ship products across the company. He has also led and worked on products at Cruise, Zipline, and Apple. In our conversation, we discuss:

• What is an “AI product manager”?

• How to break into AI PM

• What separates top 5% AI PMs

• How to thrive as an individual-contributor PM

• Common pitfalls to avoid when building AI products

• The importance of energy and curiosity in product roles

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

• Paragon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/becoming-an-ai-pm-aman-khan

—

Where to find Aman Khan:

• X: https://x.com/_amankhan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amanberkeley/

• Website: https://amanalikhan.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Aman’s background

(06:16) Understanding AI product management roles

(13:29) Getting started as an AI product manager

(18:14) Building a portfolio and standing out

(22:31) Why product management is not dead

(28:56) How to thrive as an AI product manager

(35:42) Finding good ideas that are AI-oriented

(39:27) Be careful not to automate away every customer experience

(42:53) What separates top 5% AI PMs

(46:55) Key habits for long-term IC success

(52:48) The importance of energy in meetings

(57:00) Wandering vs. waiting

(01:01:41) Amplifying signal through AI tools

(01:03:18) Just have fun

(01:05:36) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• AI Resources and Tools for PMs (Updated Oct 2024): https://open.substack.com/pub/amankhan1/p/ai-resources-and-tools-for-pms-updated

• Unlocking the AI PM Dream: Your Roadmap to Success: https://amankhan1.substack.com/p/unlocking-the-ai-pm-dream-your-roadmap

• Arize: https://arize.com/

• Ryzen: https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/business-systems/ryzen-ai.html

• NotebookLM: https://notebooklm.google/

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Cursor: https://www.cursor.com/

• Replit: https://replit.com/

• Excalidraw: https://excalidraw.com/

• Vercel: https://vercel.com/

• v0: https://v0.dev/

• How Airbnb Proved That Storytelling Is the Most Important Skill in Design: https://www.inc.com/yazin-akkawi/the-surprising-technique-airbnb-uses-to-better-sell-an-experience.html

• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach

• Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com/

• Dall-E: https://openai.com/index/dall-e-3/

• Introducing the Realtime API: https://openai.com/index/introducing-the-realtime-api/

• Intro to Large Language Models | Andrej Karpathy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjkBMFhNj_g

• Watch Me Build an App in 60 Minutes With o1 and Cursor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zmhe6_T-xU

• Greg Isenberg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gisenberg/

• Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/

• Instacart: https://www.instacart.com/

• How to grow a subscription business | Yuriy Timen (Grammarly, Canva, Airtable): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/transform-your-subscription-growth

• When Identifying the Problem Isn’t Enough: Lessons from Boxed Cake Mix by Ann M. Aly, TechFlow Director of Human Centered Design: https://www.techflow.com/when-identifying-the-problem-isnt-enough-lessons-from-boxed-cake-mix/

• Waymo: https://waymo.com/

• The Ikea effect: https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/ikea-effect

• Blue Apron: https://www.blueapron.com/

• Unorthodox PM wisdom: Automating user insights, unselling job candidates, logging every decision, more | Kevin Yien (Stripe, Square, Mutiny): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unorthodox-pm-wisdom-kevin-yien

• LeBron James: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James

• The Secrets Behind Lyft’s Dynamic Culture: https://www.forbes.com/sites/marissaperetz/2018/05/16/the-secrets-behind-lyfts-dynamic-culture/

• Aparna Dhinakaran on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aparnadhinakaran/

• Why most public speaking advice is wrong—and how to finally overcome your speaking anxiety | Tristan de Montebello (CEO & co-founder of Ultraspeaking): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/master-public-speaking-tristan-de-montebello

• Ultraspeaking: https://ultraspeaking.com/lenny/

• A Short History of Nearly Everything: https://www.amazon.com/Short-History-Nearly-Everything/dp/076790818X

• Designing Your Life: How to Build a Well-Lived, Joyful Life: https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Your-Life-Well-Lived-Joyful/dp/1101875321

• Tour de France: Unchained on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81153133

• Formula 1: Drive to Survive on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80204890

• Websim: https://websim.ai/

• Appeel Books: https://appeel.brandeditems.com/

• Steve Jobs quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/374630-your-time-is-limited-so-don-t-waste-it-living-someone#

• Becoming a conscious leader: Leading without fear, finding your life’s objective function, and getting better at vision and strategy | John Mark Nickels (Uber, Waymo, DoorDash): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/becoming-a-conscious-leader-john-mark-nickels

• Aman Khan (cricket player): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aman_Hakim_Khan

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Melissa Perri is the founder of Product Institute, author of Escaping the Build Trap, and host of the Product Thinking Podcast. She has worked with startups, Fortune 50 companies, and everything in between to help them build better products and level up their product teams. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The history of the product owner role

• The differences between product owners and product managers

• How to transition from product owner to product manager

• The evolution of and problems with the SAFe framework

• How large non-tech companies can improve their product practices

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

• OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/product-owners-melissa-perri

—

Where to find Melissa Perri:

• X: https://twitter.com/lissijean

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissajeanperri/

• Website: https://melissaperri.com/

• Product Institute: https://productinstitute.com/

• Podcast: https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Melissa’s background

(02:12) The rise of the product owner role

(06:37) Understanding Agile and Scrum

(08:27) Challenges in Agile transformations

(10:41) The history of the product owner role

(13:58) The Scrum Guide

(15:43) Product owner responsibilities

(21:01) Adopting Scrum in organizations

(26:21) The origins and implementation of SAFe

(35:20) Why Melissa doesn’t recommend SAFe

(40:33) Advice for implementing a digital transformation

(49:12) An example of SAFe adoption

(51:27) The value of experienced product leaders

(56:53) Career paths for product owners

(01:04:14) Transitioning from product owner to product manager

(01:06:41) Be careful relying on certifications

(01:11:43) Evaluating existing product owners

(01:16:55) Final thoughts on Agile and product management

—

Referenced:

• Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value: https://www.amazon.com/Escaping-Build-Trap-Effective-Management/dp/149197379X

• Lean UX: https://leanuxnyc.co/

• Scrum: https://www.scrum.org/

• What is Extreme Programming? https://www.agilealliance.org/glossary/xp/

• Capital One: https://www.capitalone.com/

• The Agile Manifesto: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/manifesto

• Ken Schwaber on X: https://x.com/kschwaber

• Jeff Sutherland on X: https://x.com/jeffsutherland

• Kanban: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/kanban

• What is a kanban board?: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/kanban/boards

• Ron Jeffries’s website: https://www.ronjeffries.com/

• Jeff Patton on X: https://x.com/jeffpatton

• The Scrum Guide: https://www.scrum.org/resources/scrum-guide

• OpenSky: https://www.openskycc.com/

• SAFe: https://scaledagileframework.com/

• Dean Leffingwell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deanleffingwell/

• Capital One scraps 1,100 tech positions: https://www.reuters.com/technology/capital-one-scraps-1100-tech-positions-source-2023-01-19/

• Product management theater | Marty Cagan (Silicon Valley Product Group): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/product-management-theater-marty

• Marty Cagan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cagan/

• Jeff Gothelf on X: https://x.com/jboogie

• Shruti Patel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shruti-patel-32bb573a/

• Product Thinking Podcast: Mastering Product Focus: Balancing Legacy and Innovation with Shruti Patel: https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/2024/9/25/episode-190-mastering-product-focus-balancing-legacy-and-innovation-with-shruti-patel

• Melissa Douros on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissadouros/

• Mind the Product: https://www.mindtheproduct.com/

• Athenahealth: https://www.athenahealth.com/

• McKinsey: https://www.mckinsey.com/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Archie Abrams is the VP of Product and Head of Growth at Shopify, where he leads a 600+ person growth org across product, design, engineering, data, ops, and growth marketing. Shopify powers over 10% of e-commerce in the United States, with $235 billion in GMV in 2023 (roughly the size of Finland’s economy). He previously led Consumer product and growth at Lyft and was at Udemy for 8 years as SVP of Product having joined the company when it was 10 people. In our conversation, we discuss:

• Why Shopify optimizes for churn

• Why the core product team doesn’t use metrics-based goals

• Why they keep multi-year experiment holdouts

• How they structure their growth team

• The benefits of not having a CMO

• Lessons learned about integrating sales into a product-led growth model

• The power of discounting as a growth lever

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product

• Dovetail—The customer insights hub for product teams

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/shopifys-growth-archie-abrams

—

Where to find Archie Abrams:

• X: https://x.com/archieabrams

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/archie-abrams-b6aa8b6/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Archie’s background 

(02:30) Shopify’s impressive growth

(06:17) Shopify’s unique approach to churn and retention

(08:43) Monetization model and success metrics

(11:08) Long-term experimentation and metrics

(23:00) Examples of big wins that Archie’s team has shipped

(26:42) Monetary friction

(27:14) Metrics

(29:47) Shopify’s growth team structure

(33:03) Goal setting and forecasting

(37:10) Examples of long-term results within Shopify

(41:36) Shipping neutral experiments

(42:05) Building a hundred-year company

(48:04) Why Shopify doesn’t use KPIs

(51:30) Shopify’s “Get s**t done” framework

(54:30) Cross-team collaboration 

(58:48) The importance of an opinionated founder 

(01:01:12) Growth and sales integration

(01:06:42) Shopify’s marketing structure

(01:08:49) Insights on discounting from Udemy

(01:11:09) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/

• Tobias Lütke on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobiaslutke

• Gross Merchandise Value: Calculation and Best Practices: https://www.shopify.com/retail/gross-merchandise-value

• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach

• Glen Coates on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glcoates

• Harley Finkelstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harleyf

• Udemy: https://www.udemy.com/

• Scientific Advertising: https://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Advertising-Original-Claude-Hopkins/dp/1640954252

• Four-Minute Mile: https://www.amazon.com/Four-Minute-Mile-Roger-Bannister/dp/1493038753/

• The Sopranos on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-sopranos

• Suno: https://suno.com/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Alistair Croll is the co-author of the best-selling book Lean Analytics and a longtime product manager, entrepreneur, and startup advisor. He was also instrumental in my starting a company, funding it, and helping us exit to Airbnb as part of his Year One Labs incubator. He’s chaired notable events such as O’Reilly’s Strata and UBM’s Cloud Connect and founded FWD50. In our conversation, we focus on lessons from an upcoming book by Alistair and his co-author, Emily Ross, Just Evil Enough, which is set for release in late 2024. We cover:

• The importance of subversive marketing strategies in most startups’ growth

• 11 specific subversive tactics that successful companies have used

• Examples of companies like Netflix, Airbnb, and Tesla that used clever tactics early on

• A framework for scanning your market for opportunities

• The importance of finding your “zero-day marketing exploit”

• How to apply these tactics ethically without actually being evil

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

• Hex—Helping teams ask and answer data questions by working together

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/just-evil-enough-alistair-croll

—

Where to find Alistair Croll:

• X: https://x.com/acroll

• Threads: https://www.threads.net/@alistairish

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alistaircroll/

• Website: https://justevilenough.com/

• Substack: https://acroll.substack.com/

• Just Evil Enough on X: https://x.com/evilenough

• Just Evil Enough on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/just-evil-enough/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Alistair’s background 

(02:00) The story behind Alistair and Emily’s book Just Evil Enough

(06:17) Examples of subversive tactics

(07:43) The importance of unfair advantage

(10:36) The origin of the title “Just Evil Enough”

(14:24) System awareness and novelty

(19:16) How to use this thinking successfully 

(22:37) Normalizing disagreeable thinking 

(25:49) Recon canvas and market scanning

(32:43) 11 tactics for subversive marketing

(57:01) Implementing subversive strategies

(01:05:01) Ethical considerations in marketing

(01:08:19) Lightning round

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Shreyas Doshi is a former product leader at Stripe, Twitter, Google, and Yahoo. He’s now a full-time advisor and coach to founders and executives. Shreyas is known for his incredibly insightful writing on products, which has garnered him a passionate following in the PM and startup community. Last week, we sat down together at the very first Lenny and Friends Summit in San Francisco for a special live episode. We covered:

• Why product leaders often feel overwhelmed with work, and how to combat it

• The importance of developing good taste, and how to do it

• How to reduce frustration in your product leadership role

• The critical skill of truly listening as a leader

• Common pitfalls in annual planning and decision-making

• Lots of laughs

—

To learn more from Shreyas, check out these courses:

• Improving Your Product Sense: https://bit.ly/product-sense

• Managing Your PM Career: https://bit.ly/pm-career-course

—

Brought to you by:

• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

• Paragon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/shreyas-doshi-live

—

Where to find Shreyas Doshi:

• X: https://x.com/shreyas

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shreyasdoshi/

• Threads: https://www.threads.net/@shreyas.threads

• Linktree: https://linktr.ee/shreyasdoshi

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ShreyasDoshiVideos

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction

(05:35) Question one: Why am I so busy?

(10:08) Annual planning as an example

(16:48) Tactical tips for staying less busy

(25:20) Question two: Do I actually have good taste?

(38:09) Question three: Why does my job feel so frustrating?

(43:29) Question four: Am I really listening?

(44:35) Closing remarks

—

Referenced:

• Shreyas Doshi on pre-mortems, the LNO framework, the three levels of product work, why most execution problems are strategy problems, and ROI vs. opportunity cost thinking: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/episode-3-shreyas-doshi

• LNO framework: https://twitter.com/shreyas/status/1492345184171945984

• Time management techniques that actually work: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/time-management-techniques-that-actually

• Part 2: Time management techniques that actually work: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/part-2-time-management-techniques

• Eisenhower quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/dwight_d_eisenhower_164720

• Stripe Connect: https://stripe.com/connect

• Jeff Bezos explains one-way door decisions and two-way door decisions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxsdOQa_QkM

• Spotify Is America’s Most Loved Workplace: https://www.newsweek.com/2021/10/29/spotify-americas-most-loved-workplace-1639982.html

• Shreyas on “thinking is cheap”: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/shreyasdoshi_thinking-is-very-cheap-doing-is-very-expensive-activity-7225237421813116929-Qzi3/

• Good Product Strategy, Bad Product Strategy from Shreyas: https://x.com/shreyas/status/1244810075908128768

• Shreyas on annual planning and metrics:

https://x.com/shreyas/status/1302423854095036421

https://x.com/shreyas/status/1304628719374544896

• Jensen Huang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenhsunhuang/

• Patrick Mahomes’s website: https://www.adidas.com/us/patrick_mahomes

• Virat Kohli: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virat_Kohli

• Reversible and Irreversible Decisions: https://fs.blog/reversible-irreversible-decisions/

• Fail fast: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fail_fast

• 3 levels of product work: https://twitter.com/shreyas/status/1370248637842812936

• Shakespeare quote: https://nosweatshakespeare.com/quotes/famous/to-thine-own-self-be-true/

• Rick Rubin: Legendary Music Producer | Lex Fridman Podcast #275: https://Dwww.youtube.com/watch?v=H_szemxPcTI

• Blake Burge on Rick Ruben: https://x.com/blakeaburge/status/1794470295828341222

• Rick Rubin on X: https://x.com/RickRubin

• Dee Hock on X: https://x.com/deewhock

• Dee Hock quote on listening: https://x.com/shreyas/status/1351279398423465984

• Peter Drucker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Drucker

• Peter Drucker quotes on listening: https://www.azquotes.com/author/4147-Peter_Drucker/tag/listening

• Lenny’s first podcast recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP_QghPLG-8

• A Recipe to Become a Great Listener: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUQJkiDy2Ko

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Naomi Gleit is head of product at Meta, joined as employee #29, and is the longest-serving executive at Meta other than Mark Zuckerberg. She’s been at the center of some of the company’s most foundational products, including Facebook’s early growth team. In our conversation, we discuss:

• How she originally landed at Facebook

• The evolution of Facebook’s growth team and key metrics

• Lessons from working with Mark Zuckerberg

• Insights from Facebook’s activation metric and retention strategies

• Leadership lessons and “Naomiisms” for effective product management

• Tactics for creating extreme clarity in team communication

• Advice for running effective meetings

• More

—

Brought to you by:

• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/metas-head-of-product-naomi-gleit

—

Where to find Naomi Gleit:

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/naomigleit

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-gleit/

• Website: https://naomi.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Naomi Gleit

(01:53) Naomi’s journey at Meta

(06:18) Landing a job at Facebook

(10:40) Becoming a product manager

(13:40) Working as Head of Product at Meta

(14:55) Insights on working with Mark Zuckerberg

(20:04) Small Groups and “disagreeable givers”

(24:28) The legendary growth team

(33:45) Activation metrics and onboarding

(43:44) Naomi’s leadership and PM philosophy

(53:00) Canonical documents

(55:55) Simplifying complex projects

(01:00:33) Teen accounts: a case study

(01:06:37) Running effective meetings

(01:12:10) The importance of exercise

(01:16:36) The role of a product manager

(01:25:49) Lightning round

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Jessica Hische is a lettering artist and New York Times bestselling author based in Oakland, California. She specializes in typographical work for logos, film, books, and other commercial applications. Her clients include Wes Anderson, The United States Postal Service, Target, Hallmark, and Penguin Books, and her work has been featured in design and illustration annuals both in the U.S. and internationally. She’s been named a Print Magazine New Visual Artist (20 under 30), one of Forbes 30 under 30 in Art and Design, an ADC Young Gun, a “Person to Watch” by GD USA, and an Adweek “Creative 100.” In our conversation, we discuss:

• My new logo and brand!

• Jessica’s process for refreshing my logo/brand

• Why most startups shouldn’t worry about their logo/brand

• The psychology behind different typography choices

• Balancing creativity with business needs in logo design

• Jessica’s unique approach to pricing logo work

• How AI is (and isn’t) impacting the design world

• Jessica’s other creative pursuits, including children’s books and art supply stores

—

Brought to you by:

• The Enterprise Ready Conference — For B2B leaders building enterprise SaaS

• OneSchema — Import CSV data 10x faster

• Merge — A single API to add hundreds of integrations into your app

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/seeing-like-a-designer-jessica-hische

—

Where to find Jessica Hische:

• Threads: https://www.threads.net/@jessicahische

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jessicahische

• Website: https://jessicahische.is

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Jessica’s background

(01:32) The logo refresh process

(09:45) When to refresh your logo

(11:45) High-level overview

(18:04) Approaching Lenny’s brand refresh

(24:25) How to see like a designer

(37:53) Lenny’s new logo: where we landed

(44:07) Brand’s role in company success

(50:04) Jessica’s flexible pricing strategies and collaborative design process

(57:14) Balancing multiple creative projects

(01:01:48) Using AI in creative work

(01:05:50) Upcoming projects and final thoughts

(01:08:24) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Jeni’s: https://jenis.com

• James Edmondson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamestedmondson/

• Figma Config: https://config.figma.com/

• Helvetica: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvetica

• MyFonts: https://www.myfonts.com/

• Geometric sans serif fonts: https://www.myfonts.com/pages/tags/geometric%20sans%20serif-fonts

• The Rise of Fractional Executives: https://www.reforge.com/blog/leveraging-fractional-executives

• JH&F: https://jessicahische.shop/pages/my-oakland-store

• Drawling: https://drawling.shop/

• Jessica Hische’s books on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Jessica-Hische/author/B082XDN54V

• Dreamforce: https://www.salesforce.com/dreamforce

• Bezier handles: https://www.tella.tv/definition/bezier-handles

• My First Book of Fancy Letters: https://www.amazon.com/My-First-Book-Fancy-Letters/dp/0593385012/r

• The Creative Act: A Way of Being: https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Act-Way-Being/dp/0593652886/

• Inside Paragraphs: Typographic Fundamentals: https://www.amazon.com/Inside-Paragraphs-Fundamentals-Cyrus-Highsmith/dp/1616899417

• Just Kids: https://www.amazon.com/Just-Kids-Patti-Smith/dp/0060936223

• Robert Mapplethorpe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mapplethorpe

• The Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer: https://www.amazon.com/Emperor-All-Maladies-Biography-Cancer/dp/1439170916/r

• Severance on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Severance-Toby-Stephens/dp/B001ARYGCU

• Penco brown bag stand: https://penco.jp/en/products/db079/

• XOXO: https://xoxofest.com/

• Mariame Kaba quotes: https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/8156101.Mariame_Kaba

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Anneka Gupta is the Chief Product Officer at Rubrik, a leading B2B cybersecurity company. She previously spent 11 years at LiveRamp, where she was the President and Head of Product and Platforms leading product development and go-to-market operations and strategy. Anneka also sits on the board of directors for Tinuiti and teaches product management at Stanford University. In our conversation, we discuss:

• Navigating “founder mode” dynamics in organizations

• Navigating difficult personalities and aligning teams

• The PM skill of summarization

• Giving and receiving hard feedback effectively

• The value of a positive mindset

• Tips for breaking into product management

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• The Enterprise Ready Conference — For B2B leaders building enterprise SaaS

• Command AI — AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users

• Eppo — Run reliable, impactful experiments

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/becoming-more-strategic-anneka-gupta

—

Where to find Anneka Gupta:

• X: https://x.com/annekagupta

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annekagupta

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Anneka Gupta

(01:43) Key mindsets for success

(05:30) Managing energy for optimal performance

(09:05) Founder mode

(18:26) Becoming more strategic

(27:54) The importance of decision-making

(37:18) Navigating difficult personalities

(41:38) Techniques for giving and receiving feedback

(51:01) Transitioning into product management

(54:56) Advice for aspiring product managers

(59:39) Leveraging AI tools in product management

(01:01:27) The power of a positive mindset

(01:04:30) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Founder Mode: https://paulgraham.com/foundermode.html

• Building a long and meaningful career | Nikhyl Singhal (Meta, Google): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-a-long-and-meaningful-career

• The Skip community: https://www.linkedin.com/company/skip-community/

• Rubrik: https://www.rubrik.com/

• 5 essential questions to craft a winning strategy | Roger Martin (author, advisor, speaker): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-strategy-roger-martin

• Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works: https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Win-Strategy-Really-Works/dp/142218739X

• Thinking like a gardener not a builder, organizing teams like slime mold, the adjacent possible, and other unconventional product advice | Alex Komoroske: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unconventional-product-advice-alex-komoroske

• Acquired podcast interviews Zuckerberg in San Francisco: https://transistor.fm/acquired-live/

• Hema Mohan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hemamohan/

• Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Kick-Ass-Without-Humanity/dp/1250103509

• Radical Candor: From theory to practice with author Kim Scott: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/radical-candor-from-theory-to-practice

• LiveRamp: https://liveramp.com/

• Product Management class at Stanford: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/experience/learning/experiential-learning/action-learning-program/product-management

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Dovetail: https://try.dovetail.com/

• The Remarkable Advantage of Abundant Thinking: https://review.firstround.com/the-remarkable-advantage-of-abundant-thinking/

• The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answers: https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Thing-About-Things-Building/dp/0062273205

• Brandon Sanderson’s books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Brandon-Sanderson/author/B001IGFHW6

• Fallout on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CN4HV16N

• Thunderbolt 4 ( 3-meter cable): https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MW5H3AM/A/thunderbolt-4-usb%E2%80%91c-pro-cable-3-m

• Isaac Asimov: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Asimov

• The complete Foundation series: https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Asimovs-Foundation-Foundations-Prelude/dp/B01EFDEMS8

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Tristan de Montebello is the co-creator of Ultraspeaking, the most effective method I’ve come across for rapidly improving communication and presentation skills. In 2017, Tristan became the fastest person ever to reach the finals of the World Championship of Public Speaking, achieving this feat in just seven months with no prior experience. In our conversation, we discuss:

• Why public speaking is a meta skill that can transform your life

• Practical games and exercises to improve your speaking skills

• The “Accordion Method” for preparing talks without memorization

• The “Bow and Arrow Technique” for crafting memorable presentations

• Tristan’s journey to the World Championship of Public Speaking finals

• Lenny doing some of the exercises live on-screen

Tristan is offering a limited-time discount to Ultraspeaking. Both codes are valid until November 14, 2024:

→ $500 off an Unlimited Membership with code UNLIMITEDLENNY500

→ $200 off a Rapid Tier pass for a single cohort with code RAPIDLENNY200

—

Brought to you by:

• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

• Command AI—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users

• Brave Search—A smarter way to search

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/master-public-speaking-tristan-de-montebello

—

Where to find Tristan de Montebello:

• X: https://x.com/Montebello

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tristandemontebello/

• Website: https://ultraspeaking.com

• Free email course: https://ultraspeaking.com/lenny/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Tristan de Montebello and Ultraspeaking

(01:42) Personal experiences with public speaking

(05:35) Misconceptions and meta skills in public speaking

(08:56) Enjoyment as a barometer for effective speaking

(15:30) Tactical tips for public speaking

(29:15) The importance of practice and games

(34:50) Game 1: The Conductor (Accessing different emotional states)

(45:54) Mindset shift: playing the game

(51:07) Game 2: Triple Step (Staying focused amid distractions)

(01:07:51) Quieting the noise

(01:09:46) Game 3: Conviction Prompts (Building executive presence)

(01:17:27) The Accordion Method explained

(01:37:57) The Bow and Arrow technique

(01:43:43) Final thoughts and encouragement

(01:44:55) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Michael Gendler on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelgendler

• Alienor playing Conductor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmholFWwHro

• Triple Step: https://ultraspeaking.com/triple-step-game/

• Rapid Fire Analogies: https://ultraspeaking.com/rapid-fire-game/

• Joe Rogan Experience #1309 — Naval Ravikant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qHkcs3kG44

• The Big Leap: Conquer Your Hidden Fear and Take Life to the Next Level: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Leap-Conquer-Hidden-Level/dp/0061735361

• Tall poppy syndrome: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

• Peaky Blinders on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80002479

• The Nice Guys on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Nice-Guys-Russell-Crowe/dp/B01FV1GLR8

• Ember temperature control smart mug: https://www.amazon.com/Ember-Temperature-Control-1-5-hr-Battery/dp/B07NQRM6ML

• How I got to the World Championships of Public Speaking in 7 months: https://medium.com/the-mission/3000-people-staring-c2cbd14c6d6c

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Raiza Martin is a senior product manager for AI at Google Labs, where she leads the team behind NotebookLM, an AI-powered research tool that includes a delightful podcast-on-demand feature called “Audio Overviews.” NotebookLM started as a 20% project and has grown into a product that’s spreading across social media and has a Discord server with over 60,000 users. Raiza previously worked on AI Test Kitchen and has a background in startups, payments, and ads. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The origin story of NotebookLM

• The future road map for NotebookLM

• How Google Labs operates differently from the rest of Google

• The development of the “Audio Overviews” feature

• Key metrics and growth of NotebookLM

• Stories about collaborating with author Steven Johnson

• Navigating potential misuse of AI technology

—

Brought to you by:

• Explo — Embed customer-facing analytics in your product

• Sprig⁠⁠ — Build products for people, not data points

• Sidebar — Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/googles-notebooklm-raiza-martin

—

Where to find Raiza Martin:

• X: https://x.com/raiza_abubakar

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/whatsaraiza/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to NotebookLM

(05:43) The genesis of NotebookLM

(08:08) Innovative features and use cases

(18:52) Building a startup culture within Google

(24:28) Expanding user demographics

(27:30) The product roadmap

(32:18) Other use cases

(36:11) Collaborating with Steven Johnson

(42:49) Ensuring ethical AI

(46:06) Future directions and user engagement

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

JM Nickels is a Senior Director of Product Management at Uber. Previously, he was Head of Product for Commercialization at Waymo and led product teams at DoorDash. JM is also a coach and advisor focused on conscious leadership. In our conversation, we discuss:

• How to sharpen your vision and strategy skills

• What “conscious leadership” means and how to practice it

• Practical techniques for managing stress

• The power of soft skills and emotional intelligence in product leadership

• Lessons from working at Uber, Waymo, and DoorDash

• Keys to living a successful and fulfilling life

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

• The Enterprise Ready Conference — For B2B leaders building enterprise SaaS

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/becoming-a-conscious-leader-john-mark-nickels

—

Where to find John Mark Nickels:

• X: https://x.com/nickelsjm

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmnickels/

• Website: https://www.rhythmofbeing.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to JM

(02:02) Conscious leadership explained

(03:41) The power of soft skills

(07:34) Navigating Uber’s evolution

(12:41) Embracing emotions and inner work

(21:46) Crafting strategy and vision

(41:16) Balancing vision and execution

(46:13) Lessons from DoorDash, Uber, and Waymo

(52:32) The future of autonomous ride-hailing

(55:18) Contrarian corner: Embracing emotions in the workplace

(59:47) Keys to a fulfilling life

(01:04:45) Taking responsibility and agency

(01:07:29) Lightning round and final thoughts

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Alex Komoroske is a strategic leader who merges the practice, theory, and mindset necessary to tackle complex problems. He spent 13 years at Google, where he worked on Search and DoubleClick and led Chrome’s Open Web Platform. He also spearheaded Augmented Reality in Google Maps and developed toolkits to align companywide strategy from the ground up. After serving as Head of Corporate Strategy at Stripe, he is now co-founding a startup aimed at reimagining the web for the AI era. Alex created the popular “Slime Molds” deck, which offers fresh insights into organizational dynamics. He is also the author of the widely read “Bits and Bobs,” a collection of thought-provoking reflections.In our conversation, we delve into:

• “Organizational kayfabe”

• “Gardening” vs. “building”

• How AI will soon change how we build product

• How and why to embrace the adjacent possible

• The power of reflection and how to build it into your workflow

• How to create emergent properties in organizations

• How to run effective “strategy salons” or “nerd clubs”

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unconventional-product-advice-alex-komoroske

—

Where to find Alex Komoroske:

• X: https://x.com/komorama

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-komoroske-6597336/

• Website: https://www.komoroske.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Alex

(01:53) Alex’s Bits and Bobs document

(06:20) The Compendium and note-taking process

(10:10) The impact of AI and LLMs on product development

(14:24) Skills to lean into as a product manager

(19:02) How AI makes us better as individuals

(23:04) Organizational kayfabe

(31:48) Gardening vs. building

(34:46) Emergence-oriented thinking

(41:55) Slime molds and organizational structure

(45:15) Identifying resonant ideas

(47:05) The power of metaphors

(48:02) Strategy salons and nerd clubs

(52:30) Building and sustaining communities

(55:59) Productivity hacks and self-control

(01:01:04) Life philosophy and personal insights

(01:07:52) The adjacent possible

(01:15:56) Lightning round

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Benjamin Lauzier has been building and scaling marketplaces for almost 15 years. He was the VP of product and growth at Thumbtack, where he rebuilt the product team and Thumbtack’s growth levers, re-architected their revenue model, and helped double the company’s growth within three years. Prior to Thumbtack, Ben was at Lyft for six years, where he led the supply side of the product organization to a point where 1% of U.S. workers were driving for Lyft every month. Currently, he advises marketplace teams and founders, teaches a Reforge course on marketplace growth, and has recently launched a health tech company called Nurra, which connects users with care advocates to navigate the health-care system. In our conversation, we cover:

• What defines a marketplace business

• Strategies for growing supply and demand in the early stages

• How to measure liquidity and other marketplace health metrics

• How to evaluate if a marketplace model is right for your idea

• Lessons from Lyft, Thumbtack, and other successful marketplaces

• The differences between product management in the U.S. and Europe

—

Brought to you by:

• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

• Paragon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-marketplaces-win-benjamin-lauzier

—

Where to find Benjamin Lauzier:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjaminlauzier/

• Ben’s Reforge course: https://www.reforge.com/courses/marketplace-growth/details

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Ben’s background

(02:24) Defining a marketplace

(07:52) Challenges in building a marketplace

(13:28) Methods for growing supply

(15:57) Understanding marketplace liquidity

(21:36) Identifying product-market fit in marketplaces

(24:10) Evaluating marketplace business models

(27:20) Common pitfalls and failures in marketplaces

(36:23) Managed marketplaces and quality control

(42:26) Lyft’s rental car initiative

(46:35) Mentorship and ambassador programs

(51:21) Driver recruitment strategies

(54:12) Lyft vs. Uber: a strategic analysis

(59:24) Cultural differences in tech: Europe vs. U.S.

(01:10:30) Building a health advocacy platform

(01:16:52) Lightning round and final thoughts

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Tamar Yehoshua is the president of product and technology at Glean. Prior to joining Glean, Tamar was chief product officer at Slack, where she led product, design, and research as the company scaled, including a 10x increase in revenue, its public listing, and an acquisition by Salesforce. She also led product and engineering teams at Google, working on search, identity, and privacy, and at A9.com, an Amazon company. Tamar has served on the board of directors for RetailMeNot, ServiceNow, Snyk, and Yext. In our conversation, we discuss:

• Why you don’t need to be a well-run company to win

• The impact of AI on product management and the future of work

• How to build strong cross-functional relationships, especially with engineers

• Lessons learned from working with leaders like Jeff Bezos and Stewart Butterfield

• Strategies for staying ahead in a rapidly evolving tech landscape

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product

• Sprig⁠⁠—Build products for people, not data points

• Sidebar—Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/you-dont-need-to-be-a-well-run-company-to-win-tamar-yehoshua

—

Where to find Tamar Yehoshua:

• X: https://x.com/TYehoshua

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamar-yehoshua-886217/

• Newsletter: https://tamaryehoshua.substack.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Tamar’s background

(02:09) Key advice for career success

(06:54) Understanding people and motivations

(09:33) The importance of impact

(11:20) Navigating company chaos

(18:40) Career planning: a different perspective

(26:22) Lessons from industry leaders

(37:59) Building stronger cross-functional relationships

(42:00) Streamlining OKR reviews with async methods

(45:26) Why you shouldn’t worry so much about making users unhappy

(47:50) The power of listening in leadership

(52:34) How to leverage AI so you don’t fall behind

(01:06:39) Closing thoughts and lightning round

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Tal Raviv is a product manager at Riverside, where he joined as its first PM. Over his 12-year career as an individual contributor, Tal has been an early PM at Patreon, AppsFlyer, and Wix, working in consumer growth, developer API platforms, and pricing. He started his career by co-founding a profitable SaaS company and also volunteers as a surf instructor for people with disabilities. In our conversation, Tal shares:

• Why he has chosen to stay an individual contributor rather than moving into management

• The rise of “super ICs” and how companies can support this career path

• Advice for succeeding as a long-term IC product manager

• How he uses AI to enhance his productivity

• How to build self-reliant teams and make yourself redundant

• Lessons from failures

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Gamma—A new way to present, powered by AI

• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-super-ic-pm-tal-raviv

—

Where to find Tal Raviv:

• X: https://x.com/talraviv

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/talsraviv/

• Maven course: https://maven.com/tal-raviv/product-manager-productivity-system/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Tal’s background

(02:24) Choosing to stay an IC product manager

(07:05) The value of IC roles

(08:31) Compensation and career path

(12:37) Advice for companies on creating space for ICs

(14:33) Leveraging AI for productivity

(22:44) Build your personal PM productivity system

(37:39) Contrarian opinions and insights

(44:32) Book smart vs. street smart decision-making

(51:51) There’s no one right way to get things done

(57:03) Failure corner

(01:19:04) Lightning round

(01:26:50) Living through conflict

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Eli Schwartz is a leading SEO consultant and the author of Product-Led SEO. He has worked with industry giants like Zapier, Tinder, Coinbase, Quora, LinkedIn, and WordPress to build and execute global SEO strategies that significantly enhanced their organic visibility at scale. In our conversation, Eli shares:

• How AI and LLMs are reshaping the SEO landscape

• Why you should be focused on mid-funnel SEO strategies

• How to determine if SEO is the right approach for your business

• Why SEO should be treated as a product rather than just a marketing tactic

• SEO myths

• The future of search in light of recent legal challenges faced by Google

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

• Brave Search—A smarter way to search

• OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/rethinking-seo-in-the-age-of-ai-eli-schwartz

—

Where to find Eli Schwartz:

• X: https://x.com/5le

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwartze/

• Website: https://www.elischwartz.co/

• Newsletter: https://www.productledseo.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Eli’s background

(02:10) The impact of AI on SEO strategies

(11:34) Understanding search intent

(15:30) Real-world impact and structured vs. unstructured data

(20:19) Top-of-funnel vs mid-funnel SEO strategies

(22:57) Case studies

(31:29) Steps for getting started with SEO

(35:20) Examples of when not to focus on SEO

(39:17) Evaluating SEO investment

(44:00) Understanding the tradeoffs in marketing channels

(46:23) SEO conversion metrics and expectations

(52:09) Understanding the time horizon of SEO

(59:37) The role of AI in content creation

(01:05:26) AI overviews 

(01:07:40) Brand building and SEO

(01:09:51) Programmatic vs. editorial SEO strategies

(01:16:06) Insights from the Google antitrust verdict

(01:20:36) Google’s dominance in search

(01:23:52) The future of SEO and user choice

(01:26:28) SEO myths debunked

(01:36:58) Forecasting SEO success

(01:44:18) The need for SEO expertise

(01:46:26) Lightning round and closing thoughts

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Camille Fournier is the author of The Manager’s Path, which many consider the definitive guide for navigating one’s career path in tech. Camille was previously the CTO of Rent the Runway, VP of Technology at Goldman Sachs, Head of Platform Engineering at Two Sigma, and Global Head of Engineering and Architecture at JPMorgan Chase. She is about to release new newest book, Platform Engineering: A Guide for Technical, Product, and People Leaders. In our conversation, we discuss:

• What product managers do that annoys engineers

• Why major rewrites are a trap

• Why you should have fewer one-on-ones

• Strategies for organizing and working with platform teams

• Tips for new managers

• Advice for transitioning from individual contributor to manager

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• DX—A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity

• CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users

• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/engineering-leadership-camille-fournier

—

Where to find Camille Fournier:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/camille-fournier-9011812/

• Website: https://skamille.medium.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Camille’s background

(02:17) Common annoyances between PMs and engineers

(07:09) Avoiding the telephone game

(08:05) Hoarding ideas and over-engineering

(09:55) The importance of involving engineers in ideation

(11:37) The middle-person dilemma

(14:21) Rewriting systems: a big trap?

(20:40) Engineering leadership lessons

(36:02) Moving from IC to management

(40:32) One-on-one meetings

(45:10) Pushing beyond comfort zones

(45:27) Building a balanced work culture

(48:01) Effective time management strategies

(54:15) Advice for platform team success

(01:02:42) Platform team responsibilities

(01:04:43) When to form a platform team

(01:07:02) Thriving on a platform team

(01:12:48) AI corner

(01:17:03) Lightning round and final thoughts

—

Referenced:

• Platform Engineering: A Guide for Technical, Product, and People Leaders: https://www.amazon.com/Platform-Engineering-Technical-Product-Leaders/dp/1098153642/

• The Manager’s Path: A Guide for Tech Leaders Navigating Growth and Change: https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897

• 97 Things Every Engineering Manager Should Know: Collective Wisdom from the Experts: https://www.amazon.com/Things-Every-Engineering-Manager-Should/dp/1492050903

• Avoiding the Rewrite Trap: https://skamille.medium.com/avoiding-the-rewrite-trap-b1283b8dd39e

• Levelsio on X: https://x.com/levelsio

• Pieter Levels on the Lex Fridman Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFtjKbXKqbg

• GraphQL: https://graphql.org/

• New Blue Sun by André 3000 on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/33Ek6daAL3oXyQIV1uoItD

• Musk’s 5 Steps to Cut Internal Bureaucracy at Tesla and SpaceX: https://icecreates.com/insight/musk-s-5-steps-to-cut-internal-bureaucracy-at-tesla-and-spacex-you-may-say-it-s-his-algorithm/

• Ian Nowland on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/inowland/

• Studio Pulls ‘Megalopolis’ Trailer Using Fake Quotes from Famed Movie Critics: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/studio-pulls-megalopolis-trailer-using-fake-quotes-from-famed-movie-critics_n_66c74046e4b0f1ca469413c7

• Claude 2: https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-2

• What Got You Here Won’t Get You There: How Successful People Become Even More Successful: https://www.amazon.com/What-Got-Here-Wont-There/dp/1401301304

• When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times: https://www.amazon.com/When-Things-Fall-Apart-Difficult/dp/1611803438

• Alien: Romulus: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt18412256/

• Whoop: https://www.whoop.com

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Phyl Terry is the author of Never Search Alone, which I’ve seen so many people reference as the most impactful guide they read for finding a job. Phyl was on the founding team of the first company Amazon acquired back in the ’90s and then was CEO of pioneering product consulting firm Creative Good, with companies like Apple, Facebook, and Microsoft as customers. Today, Phyl is the founder and CEO of Collaborative Gain, which 20 years ago pioneered bringing councils to senior product leaders and GMs in Silicon Valley. That’s their day job—in addition to that, Phyl runs a free global community for job seekers based on their latest book. In our conversation, we discuss:

• Why you should never search for a job alone

• How job search councils work

• How to determine your “candidate-market fit”

• How to conduct a listening tour

• Creating your job mission and OKRs

• How to negotiate job offers

• The art of asking for help

• Tactics for effective networking and interviewing

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Sidebar—Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers

• Sprig—Build products for people, not data points

• Dovetail—The customer insights hub for product teams

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/land-your-dream-phyl-terry

—

Where to find Phyl Terry:

• X: https://x.com/phylterry

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phylterry/

• Website: https://www.phyl.org/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Phyl’s background

(01:58) The concept of job search councils

(04:27) The power of community in job searching

(08:55) The scale and structure of job search councils

(12:27) The impact of job search councils

(20:19) The concept of candidate-market fit

(22:50) Writing a Mnookin two-pager

(24:37) Conducting listening tours

(30:12) Creating a focused candidate-market fit

(36:20) Advice on finding the right stage of company for you

(40:37) Identifying your unique path

(45:30) Navigating tough job markets

(49:07) Playing to win

(53:36) Negotiation tactics for job offers

(01:05:12) The gratitude house exercise

(01:10:48) The power of asking for help

(01:19:18) How to ask for help

(01:28:40) Final thoughts and advice

(01:38:21) Lightning round

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Tomer Cohen is the chief product officer at LinkedIn, responsible for setting the company’s product strategy, leading product development, user experience design, business development, content creation, and customer operations. He also hosts the Building One podcast, where he interviews exceptional builders across various disciplines. In our conversation, we discuss:

• How LinkedIn transformed its feed into an engaging content and social platform

• Tomer’s famous “We might be wrong, but we are not confused” mantra

• The importance of conviction and passion in product leadership

• LinkedIn’s approach to experimenting with and implementing AI features

• Lessons from Tomer’s rapid career progression at LinkedIn

• Strategies for embracing AI in product development

—

Brought to you by:

• Gamma—A new way to present, powered by AI

• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

• Merge—A single API to add hundreds of integrations into your app

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-linkedin-became-interesting-tomer-cohen

—

Where to find Tomer Cohen:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomercohen/

• Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/building-one-with-tomer-cohen/id1726672498

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Tomer Cohen and his role at LinkedIn

(02:28) The mantra “We might be wrong, but we are not confused”

(06:45) Clarity of thought and focus

(13:03) Setting ambitious goals and overdelivering

(16:18) Transforming LinkedIn’s feed: strategy and execution

(22:03) Running experiments at scale

(26:24) Goal setting and identifying opportunities 

(30:58) AI’s role in LinkedIn’s evolution

(35:38) The AI-first mindset at LinkedIn

(35:38) Developing an AI-first mindset

(44:49) Letting go of your roadmaps and allowing room for exploration

(49:12) Career growth and personal insights

(55:01) Takeaways

(56:39) Lightning round and final thoughts

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Sean Ellis is one of the earliest and most influential thinkers and operators in growth. He coined the term “growth hacking,” invented the ICE prioritization framework, was one of the earliest people to use freemium as a growth lever, and, most famously, developed the Sean Ellis Test for product-market fit (which a large percentage of founders use today to track if they’ve found PMF). Over the course of his career, Sean was head of growth at Dropbox and Eventbrite; helped companies like Microsoft and Nubank refine their growth strategy; was on the founding team of LogMeIn, which sold for over $4 billion; and is the author of one of the most popular growth books of all time, Hacking Growth, which has sold over 750,000 copies. In our conversation, he shares:

• The proper use of the Sean Ellis Test for measuring product-market fit

• How to increase your activation and retention rates

• How to select the right North Star metric for your business

• Case studies from his work growing Dropbox and other products

• How growth strategy has changed over the past decade

• How AI is impacting growth efforts

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Gamma—A new way to present, powered by AI

• CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users

• Merge—A single API to add hundreds of integrations into your app

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-original-growth-hacker-sean-ellis

—

Where to find Sean Ellis:

• X: https://x.com/seanellis

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanellis/

• Website: https://www.seanellis.me/

• Substack: https://substack.com/@seanellis

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Sean’s background

(02:18) The Sean Ellis test explained

(06:28) The 40% rule

(08:06) Case study: improving product-market fit

(12:34) Understanding and leveraging customer feedback

(16:50) Challenges and nuances of product-market fit

(22:22) When to use the Sean Ellis Test

(23:46) When not to use the Sean Ellis Test and other caveats

(27:13) Defining your own threshold and how the Sean Ellis Test came about

(36:13) Tools for implementing the survey 

(37:30) Transitioning from surveys to retention cohorts

(39:13) Nubank’s approach

(40:18) Case study: Superhuman’s strategy for increasing product-market fit

(45:18) Coining the term “growth hacking”

(48:24) How to approach growth

(57:25) Improving activation and onboarding

(01:05:17) Identifying effective growth channels

(01:10:28) The power of customer conversations

(01:12:43) Developing the Dropbox referral program

(01:14:47) The importance of word of mouth

(01:15:23) Freemium models and engagement

(01:19:21) Picking a North Star metric

(01:24:30) The evolution of growth strategies

(01:27:12) The ICE and RICE frameworks

(01:30:11) AI’s role in growth and experimentation

(01:32:52) Final thoughts and lightning round

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Vlad Loktev spent 10 years at Airbnb, where he started as an IC PM and quickly advanced to lead the core Airbnb marketplace business and then GM the entire homes business, managing over 1,000 people and reporting directly to CEO Brian Chesky. He recently left Airbnb and joined Index Ventures as their newest partner. Vlad was my manager at Airbnb for many years, and is the person I credit most for teaching me how to be a great product manager. Prior to Airbnb, Vlad spent a year at Zynga, where he helped grow Words with Friends to over 14 million daily active users. In our conversation, Vlad shares:

• Insight into Brian Chesky’s leadership style

• Why success as a PM is all about impact, impact, impact

• Why chaos can be good

• Why as a leader it’s OK to let some fires burn

• Why you should learn to “poke the bear”

• Balancing product release speed with quality

• Lessons on prioritization, decision-making, and organizational design

• Advice for founders on building company culture

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/impact-impact-impact-vlad-loktev

—

Where to find Vlad Loktev:

• X: https://x.com/vladimirloktev

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vladimirloktev/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Vlad’s background

(02:54) Reflecting on transformative years at Airbnb

(04:28) Skills and mindsets for success

(11:03) Impact-driven mindset

(13:16) Saying no and inquiry before advocacy 

(17:54) “Poking the bear”

(22:46) Psychological tools for leadership

(30:08) Building and scaling teams

(36:12) Letting fires burn

(47:34) Embracing chaos

(54:40) The unsell email strategy

(01:02:01) Finding your place in an organization

(01:05:38) The importance of company culture

(01:13:16) Airbnb’s unique approach to product management

(01:26:41) Failure corner

(01:31:32) Lightning round and final thoughts

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Nikita Bier is one of the most in-demand consumer, social, and growth experts in the world. He’s the co-founder of TBH (sold to Meta for more than $30 million) and Gas (sold to Discord for millions more) and has helped more consumer apps that have hit #1 in the app stores than any other person I’ve come across. He currently spends his time advising founders on growth, product, and design and is an investor and advisor to some of the best consumer tech companies, including Flo, Locket, Eight Sleep, Citizen, BeReal, Captions, and more. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The inside story of how TBH and Gas achieved explosive growth

• Strategies for building viral consumer apps

• Why teens are such a great audience

• Fighting the human trafficking hoax at Gas

• The challenge of creating durable social products

• His experience working as a PM at Facebook

• Advice for founders on building consumer apps

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Webflow—The web experience platform

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

• Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product

—

Book Nikita for 1:1 consultation/mentoring: https://intro.co/NikitaBier

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-consistently-go-viral-nikita-bier

—

Where to find Nikita Bier:

• X: https://x.com/nikitabier 

• Threads: https://www.threads.net/@nikitabier

• Website: https://intro.co/NikitaBier

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Nikita’s background 

(06:08) Nikita’s early ventures: Politify and Outline

(08:42) Transition to consumer apps

(13:45) The birth of TBH

(16:43) Building for teens vs. adults

(20:00) TBH’s viral success

(32:18) Leveraging live chat

(34:08) Lasting lessons from TBH

(37:00) Selling TBH to Facebook

(42:19) Big-tech product management

(48:46) Nikita on why “product management is not real”

(51:49) The Tim Cook painting story

(53:53) Leaving Facebook and starting a new venture

(58:02) Rebuilding TBH and overcoming challenges

(59:46) Addressing criticism

(01:04:24) The human trafficking hoax

(01:09:51) Selling to Discord and lessons learned

(01:11:36) Lasting lessons from Gas

(01:13:14) Building durable consumer apps

(01:22:35) The VC route

(01:23:27) Contact permissions in iOS 18

(01:26:53) The success of Dupe

(01:31:53) Advice for startup founders

(01:34:14) Work with Nikita

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Deb Liu is the CEO of Ancestry and former longtime VP of Product at Facebook. At Facebook, Deb led the creation of Facebook Marketplace, developed the first mobile ad product for apps, built the company’s games business, and launched Facebook Pay. She’s also held leadership roles at PayPal and eBay, serves on the board of Intuit, and is the author of Take Back Your Power. In our conversation, we discuss:

• Why you should PM your career like you PM your product

• Strategies for incubating new products within large companies

• Creating a successful 30-60-90-day plan when starting a new job

• The pitfalls of perfectionism

• The challenges introverts face in the workplace and how to overcome them

• The value of resilience and turning failures into stepping stones

• How to leverage coaching in your career development

—

Brought to you by:

• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

• Webflow—The web experience platform

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/succeeding-as-an-introvert-deb-liu

—

Where to find Deb Liu:

• Threads: https://www.threads.net/@debliu

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deborahliu

• Substack: https://debliu.substack.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Deb Liu

(02:18) Deb’s career journey and key advice

(09:45) Navigating new roles and challenges

(11:27) Overcoming adversity and failure

(15:07) Building billion-dollar businesses at Facebook

(19:33) Strategies for zero-to-one innovation

(23:40) PM your career like a product

(33:53) Challenges and strategies for introverts in business

(39:19) Reframing self-promotion

(42:25) The power of accountability

(46:15) Growth: a game of inches

(50:52) The 30-60-90-day plan

(56:52) Contrarian corner: career and marriage

(58:57) Final nuggets of wisdom

(01:03:09) How to find a coach

(01:04:47) Lightning round

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Kevin Yien leads product for merchant experiences at Stripe. Before that, he meandered his way from being a technical designer to a product manager, built the restaurants business and ecosystem team at Square, and most recently was head of product and design at Mutiny. He also makes ice cream and teaches for fun. In our conversation, we discuss:

• Why aspiring PMs should start in engineering, design, or sales

• The importance of writing skills, and how to become a better writer

• How to automate user research

• Kevin’s “unsell email” technique for hiring

• The value of keeping a decision log

• Insights on AI and its impact on future generations

• Lessons from failure

—

Brought to you by:

• BuildBetter—AI for product teams

• OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

—

Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unorthodox-pm-wisdom-kevin-yien

—

Where to find Kevin Yien:

• X: https://x.com/kevinyien

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinyien/

• Website: https://kevinyien.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Kevin’s background 

(02:00) The story behind Kevin’s profile picture

(08:41) The role of a product manager

(10:48) Getting started in product management

(12:47) The importance of writing skills

(15:06) Becoming a better writer

(19:10) The PM’s role with engineering and design

(28:41) Drawing the perimeter for your team

(31:37) Feedback tips

(35:13) Decision logs and product sense

(45:36) Unorthodox hiring strategies

(47:01) The unsell email strategy

(54:01) Automating user research

(01:02:27) AI in everyday life

(01:06:05) Lessons from failure

(01:14:34) Lightning round

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Evan LaPointe is the founder of CORE Sciences, which teaches companies and individuals how our brains work and how that translates to improved collaboration, better products, faster decision-making, and more growth. Previously, Evan was the co-founder of Satellite, the fourth-largest analytics product on the internet today (it mostly runs behind the scenes, and pretty much everyone listening will have used it today without knowing it), which was acquired by Adobe, where he later ran product strategy, innovation, and long-range thinking for Adobe’s digital experiences business. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The three different systems of the brain

• How knowing this can help you become more influential

• How understanding different brain states will help you increase productivity and creativity

• How to improve your vision and strategy skills

• How to design a work environment that fosters innovation

• How to build better relationships at work

• Much more

—

Use discount code “LENNY” for $5 off the CORE Sciences personality profile: https://www.core-sciences.com/new-core-identity

—

Brought to you by:

• Webflow—The web experience platform

• Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product

• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

—

Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/understanding-your-brain-evan-lapointe

—

Where to find Evan LaPointe:

• X: https://x.com/evanlapointe

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evanlapointe/

• Website: https://www.core-sciences.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Evan’s background

(02:37) Understanding the brain’s complex systems

(07:17) The three core brain systems: safety, reward, and purpose

(11:03) Applying brain science to team dynamics

(14:27) The role of personality in team performance

(17:27) Creating effective work environments

(23:16) The science of meetings and decision-making

(29:35) Enhancing strategy and vision

(54:46) Understanding personality traits in strategy and vision

(58:58) Tactical tips for increasing openness

(01:05:46) Building influence and effective relationships

(01:21:17) The importance of trust and appeal in relationships

(01:36:47) Creating a positive organizational habitat

(01:50:35) Enhancing focus and productivity

(02:00:58) Practical tips for deep work and gamma time

(02:07:11) Lightning round

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Joe Hudson is one of the most sought-after executive coaches in Silicon Valley. He is the founder of Art of Accomplishment, a transformational coaching program that has helped tens of thousands of people, including many tech executives and founders from companies like Apple, OpenAI, and Google. His unique method of transformation comes from over 25 years of exploring neurological, psychological, and spiritual traditions, tested against real-world challenges. In our conversation, Joe shares:

• Why the critical voice in your head is always wrong, and how to change your relationship with that voice

• Why authenticity trumps self-improvement

• The importance of embracing all of your emotions

• How to create more enjoyable and effective meetings

• The power of gratitude in transforming your life

• Practical experiments for personal growth

• Much more

—

Apply for Joe’s Connection Course:

Thousands of students have taken Joe’s most popular experience, the Connection Course. Unlike most online courses, there is no reading, lectures, or written homework. It is a three-week experiential deep dive where you will apply your learnings to real-life problems—how to make your team more productive, communicate more effectively, and resolve conflicts with ease. Apply here and use the code LENNY for $300 off your enrollment: view.life/lenny.

—

Brought to you by:

• BuildBetter—AI for product teams

• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

—

Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/embracing-your-emotions-joe-hudson

—

Where to find Joe Hudson:

• X: https://x.com/FU_joehudson

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-hudson/

• Website: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/

• Podcast: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/podcast

• Linktree: https://linktr.ee/theartofaccomplishment

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Joe’s background

(02:31) The critical voice in your head

(06:39) Changing your relationship with the critical voice

(13:19) Understanding and embracing emotions

(19:52) The importance of emotional fluidity

(24:40) Questioning assumptions and self-perception

(30:25) The consequences of avoiding emotions

(36:57) Experimenting with self-improvement

(39:42) Understanding efficiency and enjoyment

(43:17) The power of enjoyment in daily tasks

(45:03) Innate enjoyment vs. learned enjoyment

(46:31) Authenticity vs. self-improvement

(50:01) Embracing emotional experiences

(55:49) How understanding your emotions helps you make better decisions

(01:02:53) Creating effective teams and meetings

(01:10:40) Gratitude practice for personal growth

(01:15:36) Conclusion and final thoughts

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brian Tolkin is the Head of Product at Opendoor. Previously, he was one of the early employees at Uber, where he was instrumental in launching and growing UberPool, UberHop, and UberExpress and started one of the first product operations teams in tech. In our conversation, we dive into:

• How to enable product and ops to work well together

• How to run great product reviews

• How to make good decisions with limited data

• How he uses the jobs-to-be-done framework at Opendoor

• How to stay calm under pressure as a leader

• Wild stories from his time at Uber

• Challenges faced at Opendoor during the pandemic

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

• Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product

• Attio—The powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups

—

Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/scaling-uber-and-opendoor-brian-tolkin

—

Where to find Brian Tolkin:

• X: https://x.com/briantolkin

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briantolkin/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Brian’s background

(02:14) Career beginnings at Uber

(02:49) Transitioning from product operations to product management

(06:47) Product and operations synergy

(10:00) Surge pricing at Uber

(12:18) Scaling challenges, and stories

(15:47) Opendoor and Covid adaptations

(25:38) Product reviews and Jobs to Be Done

(40:30) The challenges of A/B testing

(42:23) Increasing conviction in solutions

(44:33) Leveraging intuition in product decisions

(47:07) Partnering with Zillow

(52:55) Staying calm under pressure

(56:25) Finding the “kernel of truth” in product management

(01:00:21) Failure corner: Early days of Uber Pool

(01:06:11) Lightning round and final thoughts

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Timothy Davis has led performance marketing for all of Shopify for the past 2.5 years, and as a consultant has helped companies like Pinterest, LinkedIn, Redfin, and Eventbrite kickstart and scale their performance marketing teams. In every one of those cases, he got them so performant at paid growth that they significantly scale spend and investment in these channels. In our conversation, we cover:

• When and how to start investing in performance marketing

• Common mistakes companies make with paid ads

• How to build and structure a performance marketing team

• How to get your creatives performing better

• Strategies for optimizing workflows and team efficiency

• How AI will change performance marketing

• Much more

—

Brought to you by:

• BuildBetter—AI for product teams

• OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

—

Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/performance-marketing-timothy-davis

—

Where to find Timothy Davis:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothypatrickdavis/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Timothy’s background 

(02:31) Understanding performance marketing 

(06:31) The importance of paid search 

(08:39) Identifying growth potential 

(09:54) Case studies: Hairstory and Ipsy 

(12:22) Experimenting with new platforms 

(18:57) Choosing the right platforms 

(20:23) LinkedIn for B2B marketing 

(27:56) When to start investing in paid growth 

(33:33) Common mistakes in performance marketing 

(37:41) Working with agencies and consultants 

(40:36) Hiring for performance marketing 

(47:33) Metrics that matter 

(54:43) Competitor analysis and CPC insights 

(56:15) Custom reports and data visualization

(56:38) Understanding impression and click share 

(59:10) True competition metrics 

(01:02:14) Attribution and incrementality 

(01:08:52) Building a performance marketing team 

(01:10:53) Creative and ad copy collaboration 

(01:15:48) Managing workload and hiring strategy 

(01:20:52) Training and onboarding new hires 

(01:24:41) Impact of ATT on performance marketing 

(01:25:56) The power of creative in ads 

(01:29:47) Using AI in performance marketing 

(01:37:16) Lightning round 

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Roger Martin is one of the world’s leading experts on strategy and the author of Playing to Win, one of the most beloved books on strategy. He’s written extensively for the Harvard Business Review; consulted for dozens of Fortune 500 companies, including P&G, Lego, and Ford; and written 11 other books. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The five key questions you need to answer to develop an effective strategy

• Why most companies get strategy wrong

• How to avoid “playing to play” instead of playing to win

• Real-world strategy examples from Procter & Gamble, Southwest Airlines, Lego, and Figma

• How to think about differentiation vs. low cost

• Shortcomings of current strategy education

• Much more

—

Correction: Roger pointed out that he made an error during our chat. When I asked him about Richard Rumelt (~16 mins), he thought I said Richard D'Aveni.

—

Brought to you by:

• Webflow—The web experience platform

• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

• Cycle—Your feedback hub, on autopilot

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-strategy-roger-martin

—

Where to find Roger Martin:

• X: https://x.com/RogerLMartin

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roger-martin-9916911a9/

• Website: https://rogerlmartin.com/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Roger’s background

(02:20) The importance of strategy

(07:00) Challenges in developing strategy

(08:30) Critique of modern strategy education

(14:00) Hamilton Helmer and Richard Rumelt

(17:40) Defining strategy

(19:12) The Strategy Choice Cascade

(23:20) Playing to win vs. playing to play

(24:57) Examples of strategic success

(30:49) Differentiation and moats

(40:23) Applying strategy to real-world scenarios

(43:47) Customer-centric strategy

(44:45) Defining the market and product

(45:59) Value chain and distribution

(48:28) Cost leadership vs. differentiation

(53:16) Capabilities and management systems

(57:14) Competitive advantage and market positioning

(01:02:41) Counterpositioning and fault lines

(01:05:53) Adapting to AI and market changes

(01:14:11) Betterment over perfection

(01:18:42) Final thoughts on strategy

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Referenced:

• Nearly 10% of S&P 500 CEOs are alumni of Procter & Gamble: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/02/06/10-of-s-p-500-ceos-pg.html

• FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• What Is Resource-Based Theory?: https://www.igi-global.com/dictionary/the-impact-of-technological-governance-and-political-capabilities-on-firms-performances-under-economic-turbulence/67915

• Michael Porter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/professorporter/

• Competitive Strategy: Techniques for Analyzing Industries and Competitors: https://www.amazon.com/Competitive-Strategy-Techniques-Industries-Competitors/dp/0684841487

• VRIO Framework Explained: https://strategicmanagementinsight.com/tools/vrio/

• Business strategy with Hamilton Helmer (author of 7 Powers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/business-strategy-with-hamilton-helmer

• Good Strategy, Bad Strategy | Richard Rumelt: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/good-strategy-bad-strategy-richard

• 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Foundations-Business-Strategy/dp/0998116319

• Boston Consulting Group: https://www.bcg.com/

• Bruce Henderson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Henderson