Lexman interviews Vladimir Vapnik, a prominent computer scientist who works on the theoretical foundations of machine learning. They discuss the concept of cladograms, which are diagrams that visualize sequences of events. Vapnik also discusses the phenomenon of flopping, which refers to a scenario in which a data point that is not supposed to be there ends up appearing in a data set. Finally, they discuss the tensions surrounding AI development, and the potential for government control over such technology.