Podd: Maintainable

Julia López: Code Tells a Story—Even the White Spaces

25 februari 2025 | 51 min

How much can legacy code tell us beyond just functionality? Julia López, Senior Software Engineer at Harvest, believes that even small details—such as white spaces, variable names, and formatting choices—can reveal a system’s history.

In this episode, Julia and Robby discuss the importance of refactoring and how a strong engineering culture can make or break a team's ability to maintain and improve software over time. Julia shares her experience leading a multi-year overhaul of Harvest’s billing system, balancing stakeholder expectations while ensuring the rewrite delivered real value.

They explore how refactoring decisions evolve as teams grow, how to mentor newer developers to feel empowered to make changes, and why Julia doesn’t always trust her own estimations (for good reason). She also opens up about the complexities of transitioning a live billing system while supporting customers, finance teams, and engineering operations—all without disrupting payments.

Beyond technical decisions, they also dive into the challenges of communication in remote teams, the value of autonomy in software development, and how teams can make a case for technical debt reduction even when leadership isn’t prioritizing it. If you've ever struggled with refactoring legacy systems or advocating for improvements, this conversation is packed with practical lessons.

💡 Key Topics & Timestamps

[00:00:22] Meet Julia López – Her background, role at Harvest, and passion for refactoring.
[00:00:42] What Makes Software Maintainable? – A test suite you can trust and an engineering culture that values refactoring.
[00:06:31] Leading Harvest’s Billing System Overhaul – Why a full rewrite made more sense than incremental improvements.
[00:09:54] The Hidden Complexity of Billing Systems – Managing ACH, credit card, and invoice payments.
[00:14:05] The Fear Factor in Large-Scale Refactoring – Why organizations hesitate and how to push forward.
[00:18:47] Communication Challenges in Remote Teams – Why documentation and transparency matter beyond GitHub.
[00:28:30] Finding and Enforcing Engineering Patterns – How teams can encourage consistency in a constantly evolving codebase.
[00:35:45] Why Autonomy Matters for Developers – Learning through struggle and when to ask for help.
[00:45:25] Advocating for Refactoring When Leadership Says No – Julia's approach: "Ask for forgiveness, not permission—but estimate higher."

🔗 Resources Mentioned

Harvest – Julia's company
Radical Candor by Kim Scott
The Making of a Manager by Julie Zhuo
Stripe – The payment processor used in Harvest’s billing system
Git Blame – A tool for understanding code history

📢 Connect with Julia López

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Marty Haught: Rethinking Technical Debt—Is It Really Just Drift?

18 februari 2025 | 53 min

Episode Overview

Marty Haught joins Robby to discuss the sustainability of open-source projects, the challenges of maintaining RubyGems, and why the metaphor of technical debt may not fully capture how software ages. Instead, he suggests thinking of it as drift—the natural misalignment of software with its evolving purpose over time.

They also dig into security challenges in package management, including how Ruby Central worked with Trail of Bits to audit RubyGems. Marty also shares insights on the EU Cyber Resilience Act and how it might affect open-source maintainers worldwide. Finally, they explore how companies can support open-source sustainability through corporate sponsorships and individual contributions.

Topics Discussed

[00:01:00] The two pillars of maintainable software: good tests and readability.
[00:02:40] From Perl to Ruby: How readability changed Marty's approach to programming.
[00:07:20] Is technical debt the right metaphor? Why "drift" might be a better fit.
[00:11:00] What does it take to maintain RubyGems? Marty's role at Ruby Central.
[00:14:00] Security in package management: How RubyGems handles vulnerabilities.
[00:16:40] The role of external audits: Partnering with Trail of Bits for security improvements.
[00:20:40] EU Cyber Resilience Act: How new regulations might affect open-source projects.
[00:34:00] Funding open source: Why corporate sponsorships are becoming essential.
[00:38:20] Processes in distributed teams: Balancing structure with flexibility.
[00:44:45] Advocating for technical debt work in teams: How to make a compelling case.

Key Takeaways

Technical debt is often misunderstood. The real issue may not be shortcuts taken in the past, but the way software naturally drifts from its original purpose.
Security in package management is a growing concern. Open-source ecosystems like RubyGems require continuous investment to remain secure.
Open source needs sustainable funding. Relying on volunteers is not a long-term solution—companies need to contribute via corporate sponsorships.
Advocating for code improvements requires strategy. Engineers should frame technical debt discussions around business impact, not just code quality.

Resources Mentioned

Connect with Marty

Thanks to Our Sponsor!

Jelly is the simplest, most affordable way to deal with your “contact@...” emails.

Tired of sharing an email login, or CCing colleagues to loop them into conversations? Terrified by the dizzying total cost of big-name “customer support” tools? Jelly is the answer. Whether it's for customer support, community organizing, or even managing band emails, Jelly helps your team share an email inbox and manage your conversations in a simple, elegant way. Use the "I got this” feature to communicate responsibility, and private comments for internal discussions. Jelly is perfect for small teams — because it was built by a small team. And, Jelly is actually affordable —team-based pricing means everyone can pitch in with your team’s conversations with customers, clients and beyond.

Bonus for Maintainable listeners Get 20% off your first year at letsjelly.com/maintainable.

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Mike Bowers - From ISAM to JSON—Navigating 40+ Years of Database Evolution

11 februari 2025 | 45 min

Mike Bowers, Chief Architect at FairCom, has spent decades navigating the evolution of database technology. In this conversation, he and Robby explore the challenges of maintaining a 40+ year-old codebase, balancing legacy constraints with forward-thinking design, and the realities of technical debt.

Mike shares how FairCom transitioned from ISAM-based databases to modern JSON-driven APIs, the trade-offs between strict schemas and flexible document stores, and how software architecture plays a critical role in long-term maintainability. He also explains why human-readable JSON simplifies debugging, how documentation-driven development improves API usability, and why many software teams struggle with refactoring at the right time.

Topics covered

[00:05:32] The role of software architecture in long-term maintainability
[00:10:45] Why FairCom's legacy ISAM technology still matters today
[00:14:20] Transitioning to a JSON-based API for modern developers
[00:19:40] The challenges of maintaining 40+ years of C code
[00:24:10] Technical debt: What it really means and how to manage it
[00:28:50] The trade-offs between strict schemas and flexible NoSQL approaches
[00:34:00] When to refactor vs. when to start over from scratch
[00:38:15] The influence of product management thinking on software architecture
[00:42:30] Advice for engineers considering a shift into architecture roles

Resources Mentioned

Book Recommendation:

The Influential Product Manager by MSc Bucero

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Lorna Mitchell: Writing Documentation Engineers Will Actually Read

28 januari 2025 | 43 min

Join Robby as he chats with Lorna Mitchell, open source advocate and technical writer, about the art of creating documentation that doesn’t gather dust. Lorna shares her experiences as a maintainer of the open source project RST2PDF, the value of API governance, and how documentation bridges gaps in developer experience.

Highlights:

What Makes Software Maintainable: Characteristics like great documentation, automated tests, and onboarding ease.
Documentation's Role in Long-Lived Software: Why it’s crucial for internal tools and open source projects alike.
Open Source in Practice: Lorna’s journey with RST2PDF and adopting a tech stack she wasn’t initially fluent in.
API Governance Simplified: Lorna explains the four levels of API readiness and how teams can work toward more usable APIs.
Writing Documentation for Engineers: How style guides can empower contributors without overwhelming them.
Using Tools to Improve Documentation: From linters to prose-checking tools like Veil, Lorna discusses practical tips.

Key Takeaways:

[00:01:00] What makes software well-maintained: documentation, accessibility, and automated tests.
[00:03:10] Why documentation isn’t just for new users—Lorna’s experience with revisiting her own open source projects.
[00:06:30] Diving into rst2pdf: Challenges in maintaining an abandoned project.
[00:13:45] Balancing ownership and transitioning open source projects to new maintainers.
[00:15:30] What is OpenAPI, and how does API governance impact usability?
[00:26:10] The art of concise yet helpful documentation for different audiences.
[00:33:00] Using examples in APIs to enhance clarity and reduce confusion.
[00:40:00] Tools for improving writing, from prose linters to markdown syntax checkers.

Resources Mentioned:

Follow Lorna:

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Carola Lilienthal: Tackling Technical Debt with Patterns and Domain Knowledge

21 januari 2025 | 43 min

Episode Summary

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby sits down with Carola Lilienthal, Software Architect and Managing Director at WPS. Together, they explore the intersection of cognitive science and software architecture, strategies for tackling technical debt, and why simplicity, modularity, and domain knowledge are crucial for maintainability.

Carola shares her approach to improving legacy systems, fostering domain-driven development, and introducing sustainable patterns into software design. She also discusses the Modularity Maturity Index (MMI), a tool her team has used to assess and improve over 300 systems.

Topics Covered

[00:00:43] What makes software maintainable?
[00:01:24] The importance of clear structure, modularity, and simplicity in software.
[00:02:38] How patterns help reduce complexity and onboard developers faster.
[00:04:42] Addressing the challenges of systems with mixed architectural patterns.
[00:06:20] Strategies for fostering creativity while maintaining simplicity.
[00:07:05] How to guide teams to balance technical experimentation and maintainability.
[00:14:03] Practical techniques for documenting architecture and decisions.
[00:16:17] What is the Modularity Maturity Index (MMI), and how does it measure system health?
[00:18:02] Common mistakes in managing technical debt and how to avoid them.
[00:21:20] Why domain knowledge is essential for innovation and problem-solving.
[00:33:03] Evolving legacy systems with domain-driven design and transformation.

Key Takeaways

Modularity matters: Simplified, modular systems with high cohesion and loose coupling reduce cognitive load and technical debt.
Patterns as a shared language: Establishing a pattern language within your team creates consistency and eases onboarding.
Cognitive science in software: Architecture aligned with how our brains process complexity results in more maintainable systems.
Domain knowledge drives innovation: Teams should focus their creativity on solving domain-specific problems, not over-complicating the architecture.
The value of architecture documentation: Keeping clear decision records helps teams navigate legacy code and onboard new developers.

Resources Mentioned

Carola’s books:

Sustainable Software Architecture
Domain-Driven Transformation (English version coming soon)
Modularity Maturity Index Overview

Books Carola recommends:

Reinventing Organizations by Frédéric Laloux
Team Topologies by Matthew Skelton and Manuel Pais

Be sure to follow Carola on LinkedIn and X.

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Joel Hawksley: The Hidden Costs of Frontend Complexity

14 januari 2025 | 46 min

Topics Discussed

The importance of changeability as a core characteristic of well-maintained software.
How GitHub has approached accessibility as a business and legal imperative.
The evolution of GitHub’s frontend system, spanning over 2,000 pages, and the concept of "frontend vintages."
Primer: GitHub’s design system and the paradox of its success—consistency vs. changeability.
The disproportionate maintenance costs of frontend systems compared to backend systems.
Using tools like Axe and keyboard-only tests to identify and resolve accessibility issues.
The philosophical balance between creativity and usability in software design.
Practical advice for teams starting their accessibility journey with limited resources.
How frontend complexity affects scalability, especially in app-like experiences.
Joel’s advocacy for adopting off-the-shelf components to reduce complexity for smaller teams.

Key Takeaways

[00:01:12] What Defines Well-Maintained Software?

Joel explains how changeability—the confidence to make and deploy changes—provides the foundation for high-quality software.

[00:03:05] Accessibility as a Priority

The Microsoft acquisition drove GitHub’s investment in accessibility, introducing SLAs, automated tools, and manual processes to track progress.

[00:08:49] Primer: GitHub’s Design System

Primer fosters consistency but introduces the challenge of making changes across a vast, interconnected system.

[00:12:54] The Cost of Frontend Complexity

Joel shares how browser quirks, device diversity, and other variables make frontend maintenance far more expensive than backend systems.

[00:28:05] Where to Start with Accessibility

Joel recommends focusing on key user workflows like signing up, making payments, and completing core tasks. He emphasizes the importance of tools like Axe and keyboard-driven tests.

Notable Time-Stamps

[00:01:12] What Makes Software Well-Maintained? Joel shares how changeability drives quality.
[00:03:05] GitHub’s Accessibility Journey: The role of SLAs, audits, and automation.
[00:08:49] Primer and Design Systems: Balancing consistency with innovation.
[00:12:54] The Hidden Costs of Frontend Complexity: Lessons learned at GitHub.
[00:20:33] Balancing Creativity with Usability: Joel reflects on the intersection of design and functionality.
[00:28:05] Accessibility Best Practices: Where teams should focus their initial efforts.

Resources

Book Recommendation:

How Buildings Learn by Stewart Brand

Guest's Links

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It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.

Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time!

Use the code maintainable to get a 10% discount for your first year. Check them out!

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Austin Story: Making Software Easier to Change, Remove, and Evolve

10 december 2024 | 47 min

Austin Story, Senior Engineering Director at Doximity, joins Robby to explore the intricacies of building maintainable systems, fostering team accountability, and enabling faster iteration without sacrificing quality. Austin shares how his team approached migrating from a monolithic GraphQL architecture to a federated model, why simplicity matters for long-term success, and how guiding principles like YAGNI influence his decision-making.

Doximity is a leading digital platform for medical professionals, and their technology blog offers deep dives into the systems and tools that power their innovative solutions.

Key Topics Discussed

[00:00:41] What is maintainable software? Austin highlights key traits, including testability, simplicity, and ease of removal.
[00:02:09] Designing for removability: Why it's important and how it enables iterative progress.
[00:03:05] YAGNI (You Aren’t Gonna Need It): How this principle shapes Austin's approach to feature development.
[00:04:13] Migrating to GraphQL Federation: Benefits of breaking up a monolithic GraphQL server and the challenges faced during the transition.
[00:05:56] GraphQL vs. REST: How GraphQL aids developer productivity while maintaining backward compatibility.
[00:10:53] Collaboration between data and application teams: Using tools like Kafka to bridge gaps and improve workflow.
[00:17:00] Upgrading Ruby on Rails applications: Balancing autonomy with central guidance for seamless updates.
[00:27:55] Fostering ownership on teams: The cultural practices that empower engineers to take initiative and drive results.
[00:34:29] Prioritizing work effectively: How Austin's team uses quarterly planning and measurable "goalposts" to align efforts with impact.
[00:40:00] Avoiding bike-shedding: Keeping meetings and reviews focused on meaningful progress.

Key Takeaways

Simplicity Wins: Maintainable software is easier to adapt, remove, and iterate on when it's kept simple.
Iterate and Refine: Use principles like YAGNI to avoid over-engineering and ensure systems are built to evolve.
Collaboration Drives Success: Bridging communication between specialized teams can unlock untapped potential.
Focus on Outcomes: Define clear goals and track measurable results to ensure projects align with business needs.

Resources Mentioned

Stay Connected

Follow Austin:

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It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.

Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time!

Use the code maintainable to get a 10% discount for your first year. Check them out!

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Dan Moore: Building Developer-Friendly Authentication Solutions

3 december 2024 | 49 min

Topics Covered

Characteristics of Maintainable Software
Dan emphasizes the importance of internal consistency in codebases, automated tests, and proper documentation to preserve decision-making context.

[00:05:32] Internal consistency: Why it matters.
[00:08:09] Lessons from maintaining legacy codebases.

Working with Legacy Systems
Dan shares stories of upgrading ORM frameworks, introducing caching systems, and transitioning to bug tracking tools.

[00:09:52] Replacing custom ORM systems with Hibernate and Ehcache.
[00:13:10] Tackling high-risk components with automated testing.

Modern Authentication Challenges
As part of FusionAuth, Dan discusses building developer-friendly tools that balance local flexibility with SaaS convenience.

[00:21:05] FusionAuth’s role in secure authentication.
[00:28:13] Testing authentication flows locally and in CI pipelines.

Navigating Constraints in Teams
Advice for managing technical debt, advocating for team priorities, and communicating with stakeholders during lean times.

[00:16:39] Communicating the impact of resource constraints.
[00:19:27] Tracing single requests to understand complex systems.

Industry Trends and AI's Role
From managed services to the impact of AI on coding languages, Dan reflects on how the industry continues to evolve.

[00:35:05] Managed services as accelerators for maintainability.
[00:41:25] The potential and limits of AI in software development.

Key Takeaways

Consistency and documentation in codebases reduce cognitive overhead for developers.
Understand how your software fits into the business to prioritize effectively.
AI might reshape the industry, but it won’t replace the need for thoughtful problem-solving.
Opinionated frameworks like Ruby on Rails continue to offer exceptional developer ergonomics.

Resources Mentioned

Try FusionAuth

Download FusionAuth: Get started with the self-hosted version today.
Free Trial of FusionAuth: Experience the FusionAuth cloud for free!

Connect with Dan

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Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error-tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and other frameworks.

It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.

Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time!

Use the code maintainable to get a 10% discount for your first year. Check them out!

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Tom Johnson: From Auto-Documentation to Better Collaboration

26 november 2024 | 43 min

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby speaks with Tom Johnson, Co-Founder and CEO of Multiplayer. Tom shares his perspectives on the evolving landscape of distributed systems, the challenges of maintaining legacy software, and how innovative tools are transforming the way teams collaborate.

Topics Discussed

Characteristics of well-maintained software, from system-level documentation to effective workflows.
The importance of debugging tools tailored for distributed systems.
Anecdotes about managing technical debt, including cutting off a CEO’s database access.
How auto-documentation and design branches in Multiplayer streamline team collaboration.
Practical strategies for tackling technical debt and fostering developer morale.

Key Takeaways

[00:01:16] Defining Well-Maintained Software: Tom explains why documentation, tests, and collaborative workflows are essential.
[00:06:14] The Case for Locking Down Production: Lessons learned from a humorous but cautionary tale.
[00:18:11] Debugging Distributed Systems: How Multiplayer’s tools simplify the debugging process.
[00:25:00] Design Branches and Team Collaboration: Enhancing communication through shared documentation.
[00:31:39] Prioritizing Technical Debt: Identifying customer and developer pain points.

Resources Mentioned

Multiplayer
Tom Johnson on LinkedIn
Tom Johnson on Twitter
Book Recommendation: Making Comics by Scott McCloud

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Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error-tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and other frameworks.

It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.

Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time!

Use the code maintainable to get a 10% discount for your first year. Check them out!

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Gulcin Yildirim Jelinek: Maintaining Postgres for Modern Workloads

19 november 2024 | 38 min

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby speaks with Gulcin Yildirim Jelinek, a Staff Database Engineer at Xata. Joining from Prague, Czech Republic, Gulcin discusses her experiences working with legacy databases, the evolution of Postgres, and her passion for building accessible tech communities.

Gulcin shares practical insights into modern database management, including the rise of automation tools like YAML and Pgroll, as well as how extensions like pgvector are unlocking new possibilities for Postgres users. Her work with the Prague PostgreSQL Meetup and Diva Conference highlights her dedication to fostering inclusive and welcoming tech communities.

Episode Highlights

[00:05:32] What Makes Databases Maintainable? Gulcin reflects on documentation, onboarding, and usability.
[00:15:10] From Legacy to Modern: Challenges with legacy systems in hospitals and banks and the transition to Postgres.
[00:22:18] Pgvector and Vector Search: Introducing Postgres extensions to enable vector-based queries.
[00:28:12] Scaling Automation with YAML: How YAML transformed database management and DevOps workflows.
[00:33:00] Fostering Community and Accessibility: Gulcin’s work with Postgres Europe and Diva Conference.
[00:36:15] Mythology with a Twist: Book recommendations featuring Circe and Elektra.

Key Takeaways

Documentation Matters: A well-documented system ensures effective onboarding for both developers and end-users.
Automation is Key: Tools like YAML and Pgroll streamline database operations, minimizing downtime and manual intervention.
Inclusivity in Tech: Conferences and communities should prioritize accessibility, from catering to translation services.
Vector Databases in Postgres: Pgvector is making Postgres a viable option for AI-driven workloads, eliminating the need for separate systems.

Resources Mentioned

Connect with Gulcin

Book Recommendations:

Links:

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Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error-tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and other frameworks.

It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.

Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time!

Use the code maintainable to get a 10% discount for your first year. Check them out!

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Justine Gehring: Refactoring Software at Scale with AI

12 november 2024 | 48 min

Robby sits down with Justine Gehring, an AI Research Engineer at Moderne, to explore how AI tools are transforming code maintenance and scalability. They dive into the unique ways AI can support refactoring for massive and legacy codebases, from retrieval-augmented generation (RAG) to lossless semantic trees, and discuss how developers can benefit from AI-assisted planning and refactoring.

Justine shares her background transitioning from academia to industry and reflects on the essential role of reproducibility in AI, why maintainable code is often overlooked in research, and the challenges of balancing innovation with real-world reliability in software projects.

Topics Discussed

What Makes Software Maintainable: Justine’s take on good documentation, reusable code, and ensuring new team members can quickly navigate a codebase. [00:00:42]
Academia vs. Industry in Code Maintainability: Why reproducibility and code maintenance often diverge in research settings, and how industry standards address this gap. [00:01:14]
From Academia to AI Engineering: Justine shares her journey and how her background in machine learning led to a career in AI-focused software maintenance. [00:04:48]
Scaling Refactoring with OpenRewrite: An introduction to OpenRewrite, the open-source tool that facilitates large-scale code transformations, developed by Moderne. [00:12:15]
Lossless Semantic Trees: The benefits of LSTs for detailed code analysis, retaining essential syntax and type information critical for reliable AI refactoring. [00:20:24]
Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG): Justine explains RAG’s significance in allowing AI models to provide context-specific responses without heavy re-training. [00:26:00]
Trust and Validation in AI-Generated Code: The importance of robust test cases and human oversight when leveraging AI-generated code to avoid cascading errors. [00:31:36]
AI as a Planning Tool for Refactoring Projects: Justine’s insights on using AI as a collaborative coding assistant, offering developers suggestions for planning refactoring and maintenance tasks. [00:35:24]
Real-World Example of Scaling Refactoring: Justine recounts a case study where Moderne used OpenRewrite to facilitate large-scale code migration involving multiple frameworks. [00:42:00]
Advocating for AI Tools in Code Maintenance: Tips for developers interested in introducing AI tools and approaches within their teams or organizations. [00:42:31]

Key Takeaways

AI Supports Reproducibility and Reliability: Ensuring reproducibility in AI-driven tools can enhance both credibility and usability for complex codebases.
Prioritize Planning Before Refactoring: Understanding code dependencies and structure is key to successful refactoring; AI tools like OpenRewrite can automate targeted changes.
Human Expertise Remains Essential: AI can be an effective coding assistant, but human oversight is necessary to ensure accuracy and quality.
Experiment and Scale: Start with small, impactful AI-assisted refactoring recipes and scale up once the process is reliable, saving significant development hours over time.

Resources

Thanks to Our Sponsor!

Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error-tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and other frameworks.

It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.

Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time!

Use the code maintainable to get a 10% discount for your first year. Check them out!

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Katerina Skroumpelou: Bridging Engineering and Advocacy for Scalable Software

5 november 2024 | 37 min

As a product advocate at Nx, Katerina Skroumpelou combines her engineering skills with a knack for connecting with clients. In this episode, she shares how clear documentation, scalable architectures, and a collaborative culture can transform software development for the better.

Key Takeaways

[00:01:25] Katerina’s Background: Robby and Katerina discuss her career journey, starting in engineering and recently moving into product advocacy.
[00:02:29] Characteristics of Well-Maintained Software: Katerina highlights key aspects of maintainable software—readability, scalability, and reliability.
[00:04:39] Product Advocacy at Nx: Katerina describes her unique role, bridging technical support and customer outreach to ensure clients make the most of Nx tools.
[00:07:01] White Glove Approach: The “white glove” service approach allows Katerina to dive deep into clients' codebases, offering a hands-on approach to using Nx effectively.
[00:09:52] Scalable Documentation Practices: Balancing clarity and detail, Katerina provides tips on structuring code comments and READMEs to be concise yet thorough.
[00:12:09] Managing Technical Debt: Robby and Katerina discuss the importance of keeping code up-to-date and scalable, especially in large systems with high demands.
[00:16:00] The Importance of Collaboration: Moving from solo work to team-based code reviews taught Katerina the value of a collaborative approach to maintainable code.
[00:19:15] Nx’s Monorepo Solution: How Nx provides cache and build tools to optimize mono-repo performance, boosting both speed and organization within projects.
[00:22:12] Nx Cloud and CI: Katerina discusses Nx Cloud’s role in enhancing CI workflows by allowing parallel tasks and cache sharing across teams.
[00:24:07] When to Consider Monorepos: Katerina explains the benefits of monorepos for organizing codebases and improving scalability.
[00:26:37] AI Tools in Development: Katerina shares her enthusiasm for new AI tools like StackBlitz’s Bolt and their potential to streamline app development.
[00:29:00] Finding Motivation at Work: Advice for developers who feel stuck or unmotivated in their current roles and ways to reconnect with the work they enjoy.

Resources Mentioned

Books:

The Three-Body Problem by Cixin Liu
Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson
Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut

Katerina's social profiles:

LinkedIn
Twitter
Bluesky

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Moriel Schottlender: The Challenges of Modernizing MediaWiki's Monolith

22 oktober 2024 | 46 min

Welcome to another engaging episode of the Maintainable Software Podcast! In this episode, Robby sits down with Moriel Schottlender, Principal Software Engineer at the Wikimedia Foundation, to explore the complex journey of modernizing MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia. Moriel shares her insights on what it takes to keep an enormous monolithic codebase maintainable while supporting an ever-growing and diverse set of global users. She highlights the importance of modularization, ownership, and the delicate balance between flexibility and stability in open-source software.

Key Takeaways

[00:00:51] Characteristics of Well-Maintained Software: Moriel discusses the three crucial characteristics of well-maintained software: ownership, modularization, and documentation.

[00:01:09] Ownership and Rules for Contribution: Ownership goes beyond just fixing bugs—it involves understanding the architectural purpose and maintaining consistency even as teams change.

[00:03:35] Product Vision's Role in Maintainability: Why a clear product vision is essential for maintaining software, even in the face of organic growth.

[00:07:14] Balancing Experimentation and Long-Term Planning: Moriel shares insights into how Wikimedia balances rapid experimentation with careful, long-term architectural planning.

[00:07:32] The Evolution of MediaWiki: MediaWiki's growth from a small project to the backbone of Wikipedia, now supporting over 900 wikis, and the challenges that come with scaling.

[00:14:18] Modernizing a 23-Year-Old Monolith: Robby and Moriel dive into the challenges of modernizing MediaWiki’s architecture, including the difficulties of updating a monolithic structure.

[00:17:15]Wikitext vs. Markdown: Moriel explains why MediaWiki uses its own Wikitext language instead of Markdown and the unique challenges it presents.

[00:22:25] Architectural Flexibility for the Future: The importance of having a flexible architecture that can adapt to the evolving needs of users and technologies.

[00:26:04] Technical Debt and Modularization: How Wikimedia approaches technical debt in MediaWiki and prioritizes architectural interventions to improve modularity and maintainability.

[00:39:00] Community Contributions to MediaWiki: Strategies for increasing developer contributions and how Wikimedia empowers volunteers while maintaining software quality.

[00:41:59] Advice for Aspiring Open Source Contributors: Moriel shares encouraging words for anyone looking to contribute to open-source projects, emphasizing that everyone can make a meaningful impact.

[00:35:44] The Role of Documentation: Moriel discusses Wikimedia's efforts to improve documentation and ensure it's useful for both developers and end-users, leveraging the strengths of wiki-based contributions.

[00:30:29] Celebrating Small Wins: Moriel talks about how Wikimedia celebrates small victories to keep team morale high in the face of big challenges.

Resources Mentioned

Book Recommendation:

Year Zero by Rob Reid

Connect with Moriel

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Kate Holterhoff: From Front-End Engineering to Developer Advocacy

15 oktober 2024 | 52 min

Welcome to another engaging episode of Maintainable! Robby sits down with Kate Holterhoff, Ph.D., a Senior Analyst at RedMonk and former front-end engineer, to explore the intricate world of software maintenance, documentation, and the future of developer roles. Kate brings her unique perspective from her time as a practitioner at a digital marketing agency, her academic background, and her current role in developer advocacy.

Topics Explored

[00:00:00] Introduction to Kate's Background: Robby and Kate discuss her journey from academia to front-end engineering and now to being a Senior Analyst at RedMonk. Kate shares how her experiences have shaped her perspective on software maintenance.

[00:04:00] Well-Maintained Software: Kate dives into her definition of well-maintained software, emphasizing modularity, semantic readability, and the importance of considering future developers who will interact with the code.

[00:11:30] The Challenges of Agency Work: Kate reflects on her time at a digital marketing agency, where she often worked on projects that had passed through many hands. She discusses the importance of balancing quick deliverables with maintainability.

[00:20:45] The Role of Documentation: Kate shares insights on the value of documentation for distributed teams, highlighting her experience organizing documentation sessions ("documentation paloozas") to capture team knowledge and ensure maintainability.

[00:30:00] RedMonk and Developer Advocacy: Kate explains her role at RedMonk and how the firm differs from traditional analyst firms like Gartner. She discusses RedMonk's focus on developers as key decision-makers in the tech landscape.

[00:39:15] Front-End Developers as Kingmakers: Robby and Kate explore how front-end engineers are increasingly influencing the adoption of tools and technologies within organizations. Kate describes this trend as front-end developers becoming "kingmakers" in the industry.

[00:49:50] AI and Developer Tools: Kate discusses the integration of AI into developer tools, the potential benefits, and challenges for junior developers. She emphasizes the importance of understanding how to read code in an AI-assisted world.

Key Takeaways:

Emphasize modularity and semantic readability to ensure code can be easily maintained by future developers.
Documentation is crucial for maintainability, especially in distributed and contractor-heavy teams.
Front-end developers are becoming key decision-makers, influencing tool and technology adoption.
AI is increasingly integrated into developer workflows, making it essential for developers to focus on reading and understanding code.
The definition of a 'developer' is evolving, with more abstracted tools and AI playing a larger role in development processes.

Resources Mentioned:

Episode Highlights:

[00:00:00] Introduction to Kate's Background

[00:04:00] Characteristics of Well-Maintained Software

[00:20:45] The Importance of Documentation

[00:30:00] What Does a Senior Analyst at RedMonk Do?

[00:39:15] Front-End Developers as Kingmakers

[00:49:50] The Role of AI in Developer Tools

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Alan Ridlehoover: Building Robust Systems Through Behavior-Centric Testing

8 oktober 2024 | 48 min

Alan Ridlehoover: Building Robust Systems Through Behavior-Centric Testing

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby speaks with Alan Ridlehoover, Senior Engineering Manager at Cisco Meraki. Alan shares his perspective on building well-maintained software by focusing on behavior-centric testing, clear code ownership, and thoughtful technical decisions that stand the test of time.

Alan discusses his experience working in both startup environments and large-scale engineering teams, including how he navigates the unique challenges of each. He provides practical advice on managing conditional logic in code, scaling with third-party dependencies, and ensuring that testing strategies remain effective as systems grow in complexity.

Key Takeaways:

The characteristics of well-maintained software: behavior-centric testing, solid code principles, and ownership boundaries.
Balancing the needs of startups vs. large enterprises when it comes to software maintenance.
Alan’s approach to handling conditional logic with a technique called "rehydration" to simplify complex code.
Why focusing on behavior, not implementation, is critical for scalable, maintainable tests.
The importance of interfaces and facades for managing third-party dependencies and future scalability.
How to approach technical debt as a conscious trade-off, not an inevitable burden.
Best practices for addressing flaky tests, including managing non-determinism, order dependencies, and race conditions.
How to set up effective monitoring and alerting systems to maintain a healthy software environment.
The role of team structure and product ownership in delivering sustainable, high-quality software.

Episode Highlights:

[00:05:32] Introduction to the Guest's Background: Robby and Alan discuss Alan's work at Cisco Meraki and his approach to well-maintained software.
[00:15:10] The Importance of Behavior-Centric Testing: Alan explains why focusing on behavior, not implementation, helps in both startups and large-scale environments.
[00:24:30] Rehydration: A Strategy for Managing Conditional Logic in Code: Alan shares his method for simplifying code with many conditionals.
[00:35:00] Navigating Technical Debt: Alan offers advice on how to strategically manage technical debt without slowing down business needs.
[00:45:18] Monitoring and Alerting: Alan’s tips on keeping systems healthy and avoiding customer-facing issues through smart monitoring setups.

Resources Mentioned:

Connect with Alan Ridlehoover:

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April Wensel: Navigating Legacy Code with Compassion

1 oktober 2024 | 52 min

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby speaks with April Wensel, Founder and Owner of Compassionate Coding. April shares her journey in the software industry and how she came to embrace compassion as a core value in coding and team dynamics. She explains why empathy is critical when working with legacy code, mentoring junior developers, and addressing technical debt.

Episode Highlights

[00:05:32] Introduction to Compassionate Coding: April discusses the mission behind Compassionate Coding and why human-centered development is essential.
[00:13:36] Compassion and Technical Debt: How fostering a compassionate mindset helps teams navigate the challenges of maintaining legacy code and tackling technical debt.
[00:20:10] Empathy in Code Reviews: April talks about the role of compassion in creating healthy, constructive code review cultures.
[00:26:30] Onboarding with Compassion: The importance of pairing and empathy in onboarding new engineers, whether junior or senior.
[00:31:55] The Refactor vs. Rewrite Debate: April explains why she usually sides with refactoring over rewriting code, and how compassion can inform that decision.
[00:41:20] The Role of Leadership in Code Quality: How leaders can set the tone for compassionate coding by prioritizing better documentation and creating a supportive team environment.
[00:44:56] Community Service and Building Empathy: April shares how volunteering outside of tech has helped her develop empathy that translates into better teamwork and communication in the workplace.

Key Takeaways:

Compassion in coding isn’t just about clean code; it's about how we treat ourselves and others in the process of writing and maintaining software.
Legacy code doesn’t have to be a source of frustration; by embracing empathy and self-compassion, teams can tackle it with a positive mindset.
Pairing and mentorship are powerful tools in onboarding, helping to bring new team members into a supportive, inclusive environment.
Effective communication with stakeholders about technical debt requires empathy and understanding of their priorities.
Compassionate coding also extends beyond the development team, influencing interactions with non-engineers, users, and the broader community.

Resources:

Compassionate Coding
April's Twitter
12 Steps to a Compassionate Life by Karen Armstrong

Follow April Wensel:

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Saron Yitbarek: The Balance Between Maintainable Code and Multiple Streams of Income

24 september 2024 | 41 min

In this episode of the Maintainable Software Podcast, Robby sits down with Saron Yitbarek, founder and CEO of DiscoLink, to explore the challenges of maintaining early-stage software while balancing multiple streams of income. Saron shares her journey from being a solo developer to hiring her first teammate and the lessons learned along the way about code maintainability and business logic.

Episode Highlights

[00:05:32] Introduction to Saron's Background: Robby and Saron discuss her startup, DiscoLink, and the initial development of its MVP.
[00:10:50] The Importance of Context in Code: Saron emphasizes why understanding the business decisions behind code is crucial for maintainability.
[00:15:10] Onboarding a New Developer: Saron shares her experience hiring her first developer and how it changed her approach to software maintenance.
[00:20:32] Multiple Streams of Income: Saron explains her motivation behind building DiscoLink to help professionals manage different revenue streams.
[00:25:40] Transparency Around Money: A candid conversation about developers’ fears around charging for their work and how to overcome them.
[00:30:45] Ethics and Side Projects: Robby and Saron discuss ethical considerations when working on side projects while employed full-time.
[00:35:12] How Podcasting Shaped Saron's Career: Saron talks about how being a podcast host impacted her career growth and networking.

Key Takeaways

Maintainability Beyond Code: Saron highlights the importance of documenting not just the code but also the business rationale behind decisions.
Onboarding Challenges: Bringing a new developer into a solo-built project requires strong communication, context sharing, and flexible documentation practices.
The Power of Multiple Income Streams: Saron’s vision with DiscoLink focuses on helping tech professionals build financial security through various revenue channels.
Confronting Money Anxiety: Many developers struggle with charging for their work, but transparency and community conversations help break down those barriers.
Ethical Side Projects: It's important to consider the ethical implications of using work-learned skills for personal projects.

Resources

Saron Yitbarek on LinkedIn
Saron Yitbarek on Twitter
DiscoLink Website
Book Recommendation: Formerly Known as Food by Kristin Lawless

Links:

My newsletter: https://themultihyphenate.ck.page/newsletter

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Lutz Hühnken: Crafting Resilient Systems with Event-Driven Design

10 september 2024 | 45 min

Introduction

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby speaks with Lutz Hühnken, Head of Engineering Excellence at Upvest, about the transformative power of event-driven architecture in software development. Lutz brings his extensive experience to the table, discussing how breaking down complex systems into manageable modules and leveraging event-driven design can lead to more resilient and maintainable software.

Topics Discussed

[00:05:32] Introduction to Well-Maintained Software: Lutz shares his thoughts on the key characteristics of maintainable software, emphasizing modularity and simplicity.
[00:10:24] Challenges with "Magic" in Code: The pitfalls of relying too much on frameworks and ORMs, including examples from Lutz’s experience with Hibernate.
[00:11:16] Understanding Event-Driven Architecture: Lutz explains the fundamentals of event-driven architecture and its advantages over traditional command-driven approaches.
[00:13:50] The Role of Promises in Event-Driven Systems: How clear design-time responsibilities ensure reliability in event-driven communication.
[00:15:43] Choreography vs. Orchestration: The debate between these two approaches to managing workflows and why Lutz favors choreography for most systems.
[00:17:57] Onboarding Developers in Event-Driven Systems: Tips for effectively integrating new team members into an event-driven architecture.
[00:26:52] The Role of Engineering Excellence at Upvest: Lutz discusses his new role and the importance of systems thinking in guiding architectural decisions.
[00:34:55] Managing Technical Debt: Lutz offers insights into balancing feature development with addressing technical debt, emphasizing the importance of a healthy investment distribution.

Key Takeaways

Breaking down large systems into smaller modules with clear boundaries can significantly enhance maintainability.
Event-driven architecture offers a powerful way to decouple system components, making them more resilient and scalable.
Developers should be cautious of "magic" in code, such as heavy reliance on ORMs, which can obscure underlying complexities and hinder maintainability.
Choreography often provides a more scalable and maintainable approach than orchestration in managing complex workflows.
Technical debt should be managed proactively, with regular investments in refactoring and productivity enhancements to maintain long-term software health.

Resources Mentioned

Lutz Hühnken's Blog
Event-Driven Architecture by Martin Fowler
The Open Society and Its Enemies by Karl Popper
Event-Driven Architecture Reading List

Connect with Lutz Hühnken

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Noel Rappin: Reviving the Pickaxe— A Journey through Ruby's Legacy

3 september 2024 | 44 min

In this episode of the Maintainable Software Podcast, Robby is joined by Noel Rappin, Staff Engineer at Chime Financial, and the mind behind the latest edition of the classic Programming Ruby book, affectionately known as the "Pickaxe." Noel delves into the intricate process of modernizing a legacy technical book and the lessons learned along the way.

Episode Highlights

[00:05:32] A Legacy Revisited: Noel Rappin reflects on the process of updating the Programming Ruby book, navigating the balance between preserving its legacy and making it relevant for today’s Ruby community.
[00:10:17] The Challenges of Modernizing: Noel discusses the complexities of working on a legacy book, including maintaining a consistent tone, updating technical content, and making strategic decisions about what to include or omit.
[00:16:12] Parallels with Legacy Code: Noel shares his insights on the similarities between updating a legacy book and maintaining legacy software, emphasizing the importance of understanding past decisions before making changes.
[00:21:00] Curating Ruby's Evolution: How Noel approached the task of deciding which Ruby features and practices to highlight in the new edition, considering the evolution of the Ruby community since the book's last update.
[00:27:00] The Ruby Ecosystem as a Legacy System: Exploring the idea that the entire Ruby ecosystem can be seen as a legacy system, shaped by past decisions and community standards.
[00:33:47] Advice for Aspiring Technical Authors: Noel offers practical tips for those interested in contributing to or updating legacy technical books, including how to pitch ideas to publishers and navigate the challenges of working on established projects.
[00:40:00] Maintaining Relevance: Strategies for keeping both software and technical books up-to-date, including Noel's thoughts on the importance of documentation and regular updates.

Key Takeaways

Updating a legacy technical book requires a deep understanding of the community's current needs and the ability to balance respect for the original work with the necessity of modern relevance.
The process of modernizing a book like Programming Ruby shares many similarities with maintaining legacy software, including the importance of understanding past decisions and the challenges of working with outdated practices.
Community standards play a crucial role in both software maintenance and technical writing, guiding the evolution of both fields.
Noel emphasizes the importance of documentation in legacy projects, whether in software or publishing, as a tool for preserving context and aiding future contributors.

Resources Mentioned

Programming Ruby 3.3 (5th Edition) - The latest "Pickaxe" book, authored by Noel Rappin. Use promo code maintainablefm2024 to get 35% off the ebook.
Chime Financial
Murderbot Diaries by Martha Wells
Wayfarers series by Becky Chambers
Rubular - Ruby Regular Expression Editor
Noel Rappin's Website
Noel Rappin on LinkedIn
Noel Rappin on Twitter

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Cassidy Williams: Navigating the Career Jungle Gym in Tech

27 augusti 2024 | 43 min

In this episode of the Maintainable Software Podcast, Robby sits down with Cassidy Williams, Developer Advocate at GitHub, to explore the dynamic nature of a tech career, the delicate balance between clever code and maintainability, and the evolving trends in software development.

Cassidy begins by discussing what makes software truly maintainable—starting with the ease of onboarding for new developers. She emphasizes the importance of clear documentation and warns against the pitfalls of writing overly clever code that might be difficult to maintain in the future.

They then delve into the challenges of joining an existing codebase and managing technical debt. Cassidy shares her experiences, noting how codebases often start pristine but become more cumbersome as projects evolve and pivot.

The Importance of Onboarding: Cassidy explains how fast someone can jump in and start working on code as a key indicator of well-maintained software.

[00:10:21] Balancing Cleverness and Maintainability: Cassidy elaborates on why writing clever code can be a double-edged sword when it comes to long-term maintainability.

[00:16:00] Navigating Career Pivots: Cassidy reflects on her own career journey, likening it to a "career jungle gym" where paths are non-linear and require thoughtful decision-making.

[00:18:36] Working at Netlify: Cassidy shares her experience with upgrading a router within an existing codebase, highlighting the importance of collaboration and bringing in external expertise.

[00:24:00] Local-First Software: Robby and Cassidy explore the trend of local-first software, emphasizing the benefits of data ownership and the ability to work offline.

[00:26:30] Developer Wishlists: Cassidy suggests creating personal and communal wishlists for addressing technical debt, fostering a collaborative approach to maintaining software.

[00:31:50] Jumblie - Cassidy's Side Project: Cassidy introduces her word game, Jumblie, detailing its development process and the unique challenges she faced.

Cassidy also discusses her love for Brandon Sanderson's books, specifically the Mistborn trilogy, and the importance of owning your data in today’s digital landscape.

Key Takeaways:

Maintainable software allows new developers to quickly contribute, thanks to clear documentation and readable code.
Clever code can be a joy to write but may lead to maintenance challenges down the line.
A career in tech often resembles a jungle gym, requiring flexibility and thoughtful navigation.
Involving open-source maintainers in large codebase changes can provide invaluable insights and streamline the process.
Local-first software is gaining traction, offering benefits in data ownership and offline functionality.

Resources Mentioned:

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Obie Fernandez: Pioneering AI in Ruby on Rails Development

20 augusti 2024 | 44 min

In this episode of the Maintainable Software Podcast, Robby speaks with Obie Fernandez, Chief Scientist at Olympia, about the integration of AI into modern software development. Obie shares his unique perspective on leveraging AI to enhance the maintainability and functionality of software applications, particularly in the Ruby on Rails ecosystem.

Episode Highlights

[00:01:00] Characteristics of Well-Maintained Software: Obie emphasizes the importance of test coverage and the role of Ruby in writing readable, maintainable code.
[00:02:00] AI Integration Challenges: Delving into the complexities of working with external dependencies, Obie explains how he has tackled issues with OpenAI's API in the Olympia project.
[00:05:50] Evals and Guardrails: Obie introduces the concept of evals and guardrails in AI-driven applications, detailing how they ensure robust and reliable software performance.
[00:08:44] Account Management with AI: Learn about Obie's innovative "multitude of workers" approach to automating account management in Olympia using AI.
[00:17:05] Obie's Upcoming Book: Obie discusses his forthcoming book, Patterns of Application Development Using AI, and shares the inspiration behind writing it.
[00:21:52] Prompt Engineering Essentials: Explore the fundamentals of prompt engineering and how it plays a crucial role in AI-driven workflows.
[00:22:48] Self-Healing Data and Intelligent Error Handling: Obie explains how AI can be used to enhance application robustness through self-healing data and intelligent error handling.
[00:29:03] Human-Augmented AI in Olympia: Discover how Olympia's AI consultants are augmented by human expertise, creating a hybrid model that enhances service quality.
[00:41:00] The Future of AI in Software Development: Obie reflects on the current AI revolution and draws parallels with the early days of Ruby on Rails, offering insights into the future of AI in software engineering.

Key Takeaways

The Role of Ruby in AI: Ruby's syntax and readability play a significant role in creating maintainable AI-driven applications.
AI Integration Complexity: Handling external APIs and dependencies requires robust error management and creative solutions like evals and guardrails.
Innovative Account Management: Obie's approach to AI-driven account management offers a glimpse into the future of business automation.
AI's Impact on Software Development: AI has the potential to revolutionize software maintenance, making it more robust and adaptable.

Resources Mentioned

Obie's LinkedIn: Obie Fernandez
Obie's Twitter: @obie
Obie's Blog: Medium
Olympia
Upcoming Book: Patterns of Application Development Using AI by Obie Fernandez
Science Fiction Recommendation: Ian Banks' Books

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Tekin Süleyman: Balancing Complexity and Team Size

13 augusti 2024 | 43 min

Topics Discussed

Characteristics of Well-Maintained Software: Tekin emphasizes the importance of software that is easy to change and tailored to the team's needs.
Balancing Complexity and Team Size: Tekin discusses how his small team manages complexity and features to maintain sustainable work practices without overburdening the developers.
GovUK Project Insights: Tekin shares his experiences working on the GovUK project, highlighting the challenges and breakthroughs in rationalizing the UK's government digital real estate.
Version Control Best Practices: Tekin and Robby delve into the importance of well-written Git commit messages and how they preserve institutional knowledge.
Connecting with End Users: Tekin advocates for developers to get closer to end users to better understand their needs and deliver more effective solutions.

Key Takeaways

Maintaining software sustainability is crucial, especially for small teams.
Intentional decisions about growth and complexity can prevent burnout and maintain productivity.
Direct interaction with end users can significantly improve software quality and usability.
Effective version control practices help preserve valuable institutional knowledge.
Organizations should balance parallel work to avoid overburdening development teams.

Resources Mentioned

Don't miss this insightful conversation with Tekin Süleyman as he shares his journey and best practices for maintaining sustainable software within small teams.

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Ryosuke Iwanaga: The Benefits of Cell-Based Architecture

8 augusti 2024 | 42 min

Ryosuke shares his insights on:

Ownership in Software Maintenance: The role of single-threaded ownership and dedicated teams in maintaining software and shared libraries.
Technical Debt: How his definition of technical debt has evolved over the years and strategies to manage it effectively.
Monitoring and Alarming: The importance of comprehensive monitoring and alarming systems in handling legacy software and ensuring reliability.
Change Management: Best practices for change management, including preparing for worst-case scenarios and automating processes to reduce risks.
Phased Rollouts and Feature Flags: Implementing phased rollouts and using feature flags to manage changes safely and gradually.
Cell-Based Architecture: How cell-based architecture enhances scalability and reliability, and the challenges of maintaining multi-cell systems.
Operational Excellence: Continuous deployment, regular dashboard reviews, and technologies used in orchestration to achieve operational excellence.

Ryosuke also discusses his current role and responsibilities as a software engineer and his consulting work with OpsVL, where he helps organizations raise their operational standards.

Resources Mentioned

Tune in to this insightful episode to learn more about maintaining healthy and scalable software systems.

About the Guest:

Ryosuke Iwanaga is the President of OpsBR Software Technology Inc. He has extensive experience in software engineering, including roles in sales engineering, support engineering, and data center operations. Ryosuke is passionate about operational excellence and helping organizations improve their software systems.

Follow Ryosuke on Social Media:

LinkedIn

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Julia Ferraioli - Capturing Untold Open Source Stories

30 juli 2024 | 48 min

Welcome to the Maintainable Software Podcast! In this episode, Robby speaks with Julia Ferraioli, an Open Source AI/ML Strategist at AWS and co-founder of Open Source Stories. Julia joins us from Seattle, Washington, and shares her insights into the world of open source, AI, and software maintainability.

Key Topics:

Well-Maintained Software: Julia shares her thoughts on the characteristics of well-maintained software, emphasizing the importance of avoiding "clever" code that is often unmaintainable.
Creative vs. Assembly Process: The discussion touches on the balance between software as a creative endeavor and an assembly process, highlighting the need for maintainability.
Ternary Operators and Readability: Julia provides her perspective on the use of ternary operators and how certain programming language features can impact code readability and maintainability.
Open Source Stories: Julia discusses the origins and goals of Open Source Stories, a narrative project that captures the untold stories of open-source contributors.
Challenges in Open Source: The episode delves into the challenges faced by open source contributors, including cultural context, erasure, and the lack of exit interviews.
Research and Software Maintenance: Julia's background in machine learning research offers a unique perspective on the intersection of research and software maintenance.
Technical Debt: A broader definition of technical debt is explored, encompassing work deferred and cultural issues within organizations.
Effective Strategies: Julia shares strategies for addressing technical debt and navigating conversations about prioritizing technical improvements.
Metrics and Developer Experience: The importance of context in metrics and the value of developer experience feedback are discussed.
AI/ML Tools: Julia provides her predictions on the impact of AI/ML tools on software maintenance in the coming years.

Resources Mentioned:

Open Source Stories
Feminism is for Everybody by Bell Hooks

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Tanmai Gopal: Unlocking the Potential of Unified APIs

23 juli 2024 | 45 min

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby Russell sits down with Tanmai Gopal, the CEO and co-founder of Hasura. Tanmai shares his insights into the characteristics of well-maintained software and the importance of a codebase that no team member fears. He emphasizes the need for accessibility and understandability in code, making it easier for developers to work with and iterate upon.

Tanmai dives deep into the metaphor of technical debt, urging teams to prioritize product outcomes over best practices. He highlights the value of addressing technical debt contextually and in a way that aligns with product goals.

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the concept of the "super graph" in GraphQL. Tanmai explains how a unified API, created through federated GraphQL, can streamline API integration and reduce latency. He compares GraphQL with RESTful APIs, showcasing the advantages of a graph-based approach for handling complex data relationships.

Tanmai also introduces Hasura's platform, which introspects databases, code, and APIs to create a comprehensive super graph. This platform simplifies API management, making it easier for developers to maintain and evolve their applications.

Listeners will also learn about Hasura's upcoming user conference and the new features they plan to unveil. Tanmai shares his top science fiction book recommendations and where to follow his thoughts on software engineering online.

Key Takeaways:

The importance of a fearless codebase for well-maintained software.
Strategies to improve code accessibility and understandability.
The metaphor of technical debt and its contextual importance.
The concept and benefits of a super graph in GraphQL.
How Hasura simplifies API management through introspection.
Upcoming Hasura user conference and new features.

Resources Mentioned:

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James Socol: Building Social Capital in Engineering Teams

16 juli 2024 | 44 min

In this episode of the Maintainable Software Podcast, Robby Russell sits down with James Socol, a Staff Engineer at Fastly, to discuss the art of maintaining legacy code and the nuances of technical debt versus technical depreciation.

Key Topics Discussed:

Characteristics of Well-Maintained Code: James shares his insights on what defines well-maintained code, emphasizing the importance of continuous maintenance, testing, and encapsulation.
Technical Debt vs. Technical Depreciation: James introduces the concept of technical depreciation, distinguishing it from technical debt and explaining how time affects software maintenance.
Balancing Old and New Patterns: The discussion explores the challenges of integrating modern standards into legacy systems and finding a healthy balance.
20% Time for Maintenance: James advocates for dedicating a portion of engineering capacity to maintenance tasks, drawing parallels to Google's 20% time concept.
Onboarding Strategies: James offers valuable advice for new hires, emphasizing observation, gradual involvement, and building social capital within the team.
Continuous Delivery and Big Changes: Insights into managing significant changes in a continuous delivery environment, with practical strategies for maintaining stability.

Resources Mentioned:

Books:

Getting to Yes by Roger Fisher & William Ury
Turn the Ship Around by L. David Marquet

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Paola Ducolin: Building Trust and Communication in Engineering Teams

10 juli 2024 | 46 min

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby chats with Paola Ducolin, Staff Engineer at Datadog. Paola shares her insights on the characteristics of well-maintained software, the common struggles teams face, and effective strategies for working with stakeholders to prioritize refactoring.

Key Topics Discussed:

Characteristics of Maintainable Software: Paola explains the importance of well-documented code and having tests that automatically detect breaks.
Challenges in Maintaining Software: The impact of business pressures on maintaining code quality and how teams can navigate these challenges.
Working with Stakeholders: Strategies for communicating the importance of refactoring and measuring the impact of technical debt on business objectives.
Role of Staff Engineers: Paola’s journey to becoming a staff engineer and the responsibilities that come with the role, including coordination and networking.
Documentation and Design Systems: The power of documentation and how design systems can serve as a model for well-documented and maintainable code.
Observability and Monitoring: An overview of Datadog's tools for observability and monitoring, and how they help in maintaining software quality.

Resources Mentioned:

Book Recommendations

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Robin Heinze - React Native and the Art of Flexibility

18 juni 2024 | 41 min

Scott Hanselman - The Fear Factor in Maintainable Software

11 juni 2024 | 37 min

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby welcomes Scott Hanselman, VP of Developer Community at Microsoft and host of the Hanselminutes Podcast, to discuss the emotional side of maintainable software. Scott shares his thoughts on fear as a common thread in poorly maintained software, the importance of building a team culture of trust, and how finding a good work-life balance helps create better software.

The Role of Fear in Technical Debt

Scott believes that if you fear the software you work on, it's a tell-tale sign that it has maintainability issues.
Technical debt is rooted in fear--either fear of making a change that will break something or fear of being unable to change something when needed.
He encourages teams to talk openly about their fears and anxieties regarding the software and to consider what things give them confidence in the codebase.

Building a Team Culture of Confidence

Scott emphasizes the importance of empathy in overcoming technical debt and making software more maintainable.
Senior engineers and team leads have a responsibility to make junior developers feel safe enough to speak up and ask questions.
He advocates for providing new hires with small, achievable tasks to build their confidence and trust in the software.
Scott encourages teams to use "inner loop" and "outer loop" thinking.
Inner loop - The cycle of making a change, hitting f5, and seeing changes immediately.
Outer loop - Things like deploying the codebase, getting it tested, ensuring production stability.
Both experienced and junior engineers have their own inner and outer loops as individuals, and continuous improvement at all levels is key.

Overcoming Fear, Embracing Maintainability, and Finding Balance

Scott shares stories about Microsoft's journey with open-source software and how that process has shaped the company's culture around maintainable code.
He talks about the importance of striking a balance between source-opened and open-source software and finding the sweet spot for a project or organization.
Scott warns against the trap of striving for unattainable perfection. Aiming for good, solid repeatable work over perfection ultimately yields better results.
He uses his own projects, like the Hanselminutes podcast, as examples of focusing on consistent outputs and utilizing a simple workflow.
Scott advocates for using AI tools to transcribe coding sessions, freeing up developers from extensive note-taking.

Book Recommendation:

Helpful Links:

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Stig Brautaset: Understanding Alien Artifacts in Legacy Code

4 juni 2024 | 46 min

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby chats with Stig Brautaset, Staff Software Engineer at CircleCI. Stig shares his insights on maintaining well-documented but complex legacy code, the impact of team dynamics on software maintenance, and his experiences with the SBJSON library.

Stig discusses the characteristics of well-maintained software, emphasizing the importance of team experience, domain knowledge, and risk appetite. He reflects on his own career journey, highlighting the transition from overconfidence to a balanced approach to risk-taking.

A significant portion of the conversation delves into Stig's concept of "Alien Artifacts," which describes highly resistant legacy code written by highly skilled engineers. He explains the challenges of modifying such code and shares examples from his own experiences.

Stig also talks about his work on the SBJSON library, addressing the complexities of handling multiple versions and dependency conflicts. He advocates for developers maintaining the software they ship and discusses the balance between shipping features quickly and maintaining long-term code quality.

Key Takeaways

The influence of team dynamics on software maintenance
Understanding the concept of "Alien Artifacts" in legacy code
Strategies for handling multiple versions of a software library
The importance of developers being on call for the software they ship
Managing different types of technical debt

Book Recommendation:

Helpful Links:

Want to share your thoughts on this episode? Reach out to Robby at [email protected].

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Brit Myers - Decoding Product vs. Technical Risk

28 maj 2024 | 42 min

Join Robby as he welcomes Brit Myers to the podcast. Brit, currently thriving as the VP of Engineering at System Initiative, discusses the intricacies of maintaining software. She emphasizes the importance of navigable software, where the ease of tracing the code and understanding its structure is paramount. Brit highlights the significance of clear naming conventions and inline documentation, as they help in maintaining a cohesive narrative within the software.

The conversation touches on the challenges posed by discrepancies in vocabulary between product management and engineering, and how glossaries can bridge these communication gaps. Brit advocates for the use of glossaries more as a reflective tool rather than a proactive one, given the dynamic nature of software development. She also delves into strategies for managing legacy code and technical debt, proposing a pragmatic approach where wrapping and modularizing legacy components can mitigate risks.

She discusses the balance between immediate feature delivery and long-term code health, stressing the importance of aligning technical risks with business objectives. The episode explores the impact of company culture on development practices, the benefits of synchronous work environments, and the evolving landscape of DevOps. Tune in to tap into Brit’s valuable wisdom.

Book Recommendation:

Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes are High By Kerry Patterson, Stephen R. Covey, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler

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Andrea Guarino - Leveraging Static Analysis for Better Code

21 maj 2024 | 36 min

Staffan Nöteberg - On the Power of Monotasking in Software Development

7 maj 2024 | 47 min

In this insightful episode, we dive deep into the essence of software maintainability with Agile Coach and author Staffan Nöteberg. Unpacking the layers of what it takes for software to be considered well-maintained, Staffan sheds light on the crucial roles of abstraction and modularity. These foundational elements not only make software easier to understand for newcomers but also ensure that it can evolve and adapt over time without becoming bogged down by complexity.

The conversation takes a pivotal turn towards the often misunderstood concept of technical debt. With Staffan's expertise, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of why technical debt is more than just a buzzword - it's a crucial aspect of software development that requires careful communication, especially with those in management positions. This leads into an exploration of monotasking as a transformative approach to productivity. Unlike the common practice of juggling multiple tasks, monotasking focuses on dedicating one's attention to the most critical task at hand, thereby enhancing efficiency and output quality.

Further enriching the discussion, Staffan introduces the concept of panorama sessions. These are strategic moments set aside to reassess and prioritize tasks, ensuring that efforts are always aligned with the most impactful objectives. Such strategies not only streamline the development process but also foster a more collaborative and agile workplace. As the episode unfolds, listeners are invited to reflect on their own practices and consider how embracing a monotasking approach could revolutionize their work and the software they develop.

For those looking to dive deeper into the principles discussed and discover practical strategies for applying them, Staffan Nöteberg's book, "Monotasking," comes highly recommended. It's a resource that promises to change how you view productivity and software development.

Book Recommendation:

Complexity: The Emerging Science at the Edge of Order and Chaos by M. Mitchell Waldrop

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Martin Emde - Ruby Central and the Art of Being Tolerant to Change

23 april 2024 | 53 min

In this episode of Maintainable, our host Robby Russell sits down with Martin Emde, a sage in the Ruby community and the current Director of Open Source at Ruby Central. Together, they weave through the intricacies of maintainable software, legacy code, and the unwavering power of the Ruby ecosystem. Martin, with his wealth of experience, shares tales from the trenches of open-source software development, focusing on RubyGems and Bundler, and how they've evolved to face the challenges of modern software needs.

Martin addresses the elephant in the room - complexity in software. He muses on the natural progression of software projects from simplicity to complexity, drawing parallels to the growth of living organisms. It's not about fighting complexity, but embracing it with open arms, ensuring the software remains adaptable and maintainable. This conversation sheds light on the importance of testing, documentation, and community support in navigating the seas of complex software development.

Diving deeper, they discuss the essence of technical debt, not as a villain in our stories but as a necessary step in the rapid evolution of technology. Martin's perspective on technical debt as a tool for progress rather than an obstacle is refreshing, encouraging developers to approach their work with more kindness and understanding.

The discussion also highlights Ruby Central's pivotal role in nurturing the Ruby community, emphasizing the importance of contributions, whether code, conversation, or financial support. Martin's call to action for developers to engage with open-source projects, to adopt gems in need, and to provide support where possible, is a heartwarming reminder of the collective effort required to sustain the vibrant Ruby ecosystem.

For those curious minds eager to dive into the world of Ruby, contribute to its growth, or simply enjoy a captivating discussion on software development, this episode is a delightful journey through the challenges and joys of maintaining open-source software. Don't miss out on the gems of wisdom shared in this episode, and be sure to check out the useful links below for more information on how you can contribute to the Ruby community.

Book Recommendation:

Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir

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Esther Olatunde - AI's Role in Evolving Software Engineering Practices

16 april 2024 | 48 min

In this captivating episode of the Maintainable Software Podcast, host Robby Russell delves deep with Esther Olatunde, Senior Product Engineer at Intercom, into the realms of software maintenance, technical debt, and the impact of AI on software development. The discussion kicks off with Esther's insights on what constitutes well-maintained software, emphasizing the importance of quality from both the user's and developer's perspectives. They explore how ease of onboarding for new developers and the ability to swiftly navigate codebases significantly contribute to a project's maintainability.

The conversation then shifts towards the nuances of managing technical debt, with Esther sharing her evolved understanding of the term over her career. From her early days in startups to her current role at Intercom, she provides a rich perspective on the challenges and strategies for advocating maintenance work within diverse organizational sizes. This episode takes an intriguing turn as Robby and Esther speculate on the future of software engineering in the age of AI, pondering how tools like GitHub Copilot could redefine the developer's role.

Robby probes into the potential of AI in accelerating development processes and the implications for software quality and team dynamics. They also touch upon the critical aspect of advocating for maintenance tasks to non-developers, underscoring the long-term benefits over immediate functionality gains. The episode is peppered with practical advice for engineers at all levels, encouraging them to persistently champion the cause of addressing technical debt for healthier codebases.

As a bonus, Esther recommends a non-technical yet profoundly relevant book, "Built" by Tony Fadell, which offers insights into product development and innovation, further enriching the discussion with broader perspectives on creating meaningful and lasting technology. Dive into this episode for a thorough exploration of the intricacies of software maintenance, the evolving landscape of software development, and how to navigate the challenges of technical debt, all through the lens of an experienced software engineer at the forefront of the industry.

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Robbie Wagner - Whiskey, Front-End, and Whatnot

26 mars 2024 | 40 min

Starting off, Robbie Russell and Robbie Wagner bonding over the complexities of their names in the coffee queue.
They dive into the essence of maintainable software, debating the importance of recent commits and the dangers of a single-contributor project.
Tech debt, the ever-looming shadow over software development, gets a moment in the spotlight. They share a laugh over buying GitHub stars as a measure of project health.
Wagner's approach to tackling tech debt without permission is both rebellious and pragmatic, advocating for quality and refactoring 'on-the-go'.
The conversation shifts to the Scout rule in software maintenance, and how constant vigilance is key to overcoming tech debt fatigue.
Discussions around Ember.js, its community, and the evolution of front-end development light up the conversation.
The narrative takes a turn as they explore automating the mundane, with ESLint, Prettier, and CI tools like Dependabot starring as the unsung heroes in the quest for quality.
They touch upon the challenges of maintaining a balance between new features and tech debt, with Wagner emphasizing the sneaky art of integrating tech debt fixes into regular work.
Robbie Wagner shares his love for rye whiskey, introducing listeners to his favorite brands and distilleries.
Wrapping up, they delve into the world of podcasts, discussing the uniqueness of "Whiskey, Web and Whatnot" and how it blends technical discussions with personal stories and whiskey.

Helpful Links:

Check out Whiskey, Web and Whatnot for more episodes and whiskey recommendations!

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Irina Nazarova - Investing in Innovation: The Consultancy's Guide to Growth

12 mars 2024 | 46 min

In the latest episode of Maintainable, Robby Russell has a fascinating conversation with Irina Nazarova, the CEO of Evil Martians, a name that resonates with innovation and bold strides in the software development world. They dive deep into what it takes to maintain not just code, but also the delicate balance between rapid development and long-term sustainability in the ever-evolving startup landscape.

Irina shares her unique perspective on the common traits of well-maintained software, stressing the importance of adaptability and the role of technical debt at different stages of a company's growth. With a background rich in pushing the boundaries of what's possible in software consultancy, she offers a fresh take on commercializing open-source projects, nurturing innovation within the team, and the significance of building genuine relationships with clients.

Listeners will get a glimpse into the challenges and triumphs of running a software consultancy that dares to dream big. From the intricacies of investing in internal projects to the philosophy behind fostering a culture of innovation and respect, this episode is a goldmine of insights for anyone curious about the intersection of consultancy work and product development.

Don't miss out on this engaging discussion that reveals the byproducts of passion, dedication, and a relentless pursuit of excellence in the software industry. Check out the episode and let us know your thoughts!

Book Recommendations:

The Challenger Sale

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Kyle Daigle - Scaling Up with AI: A New Era of Code Maintenance

5 mars 2024 | 47 min

Jon Moniaci - Can We Draw A Boundary?

27 februari 2024 | 54 min

Chad Fowler - How Small Can We Make This Problem

20 februari 2024 | 59 min

John Nunemaker - How Scary Is This Change?

13 februari 2024 | 63 min

Robby has a conversation with John Nunemaker, the Owner at "Box Out Sports" and "Fewer & Faster". They dive into the basics of maintaining software projects, highlighting the crucial importance of keeping dependencies and versions up to date. John shares his wealth of experience from his time at GitHub, shedding light on the delicate balance between exploring new architecture patterns and adhering to existing ones. They explore practical approaches to software challenges, emphasizing tools like Dependabot for efficient dependency management and the significance of evaluating the potential risks associated with changes in dependencies.

John also provides valuable insights into the release of open source libraries, emphasizing the need for clear communication of expectations from the community and personal visions for the project. The discussion spans topics ranging from navigating the challenges of legacy code reviews to the gratification derived from seeking and improving the darker corners of a codebase. The episode culminates with a discussion on personal satisfaction in project selection and the art of effectively marketing open source projects.

In essence, this episode of Maintainable not only unveils the intricacies of maintaining software projects but also offers practical wisdom on navigating challenges related to dependencies, legacy code, and personal project satisfaction. Listeners gain valuable insights into the strategic use of tools, the thoughtful release of open source projects, and the importance of continual improvement in the ever-evolving landscape of software development. If you’re a software engineer seeking tangible approaches to enhance the maintainability of your projects, then don’t miss this episode. Stay tuned!

Book Recommendations:

Hell Yeah or No: What's Worth Doing by Derek Divers

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Jemma Issroff - Running the Parser in the Rain

6 februari 2024 | 40 min

Robby has a conversation with Jemma Issroff, a Senior Software Engineer, speaker and the author of the book, “Ruby Garbage Collection in Under Two Hours” They delve into the intricacies of well-maintained software, and Jemma brings her wealth of experience, particularly from her involvement in Prism, a notable rewrite of the Ruby parser. The duo explores the contrasting dynamics of maintaining software in C versus Ruby, shedding light on the nuanced challenges and advantages each presents. As the conversation unfolds, they draw intriguing parallels between their approaches to utilizing advanced tools like ChatGPT and CoPilot in their respective workflows. Jemma also offers a sneak peek into her upcoming transition into the realm of artificial intelligence, adding a fascinating layer to the dialogue.

Beyond the tech talk, the episode takes an unexpected turn as the two bond over their shared affection for running in the rain and Jemma recounts her enriching experience at Recurse, a unique software programmers retreat. This episode is a captivating blend of technical expertise and personal anecdotes where rain-soaked runs and programming retreats add unexpected flavors to the conversation. Tune in for a unique exploration of the tech landscape that will definitely leave you inspired and informed.

Book Recommendations:

Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman

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Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and soon, other frameworks.

It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.

Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Check them out!

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Jeanine Soterwood - Helping Clients Understand Maintenance Work

30 januari 2024 | 39 min

Robby has a chat with the Software Development Team Lead at Thoughtbot, Jeanine Soterwood. Unraveling the intricacies of Ruby on Rails, they explore the often overlooked importance of keeping apps up-to-date and maintaining a robust test suite. The conversation weaves through the delicate balance between enticing features and the long-term needs of software maintenance, shedding light on the aspects clients may not find thrilling.

Drawing from their experiences in the consulting realm, Robby and Jeanine share valuable insights on being a commendable guest in another team's code base. From deciphering a client's process and team culture to navigating the challenge of conveying that software is an ever-evolving entity, the episode unfolds with practical tips. The duo advocates for proposing experiments over permanent decisions, emphasizing the art of gaining buy-in.

Additionally, they tackle the nuances of pairing with junior developers and unravel Jeanine's journey of embracing non-DRY tests. Wrapping up with a deep dive into managing a technical debt backlog and Jeanine's impactful work on Ruby for Good projects, this episode will be a treasure trove for any software engineer who is navigating the elusive path of effective project maintenance.

Book Recommendations:

A Little Life by Hanya Yanagihara

Helpful Links:

Thanks to Our Sponsor!

Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and soon, other frameworks.

It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.

Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Check them out!

Subscribe to Maintainable on:

Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.

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Andrew Atkinson - Maintainable... Databases?

23 januari 2024 | 54 min

Robby engages with independent consultant and author, Andrew Atkinson, delving into the intricate world of software development and database maintenance. The duo kicks off with a profound exploration of the importance of swift and intuitive change management in software, unraveling the key traits that transform a database into a well-maintained powerhouse. From securing data to cleaning up legacy information, they shed light on the often-neglected aspects that can significantly enhance a software engineer's efficiency.

As the conversation flows, Andrew unveils the secrets behind his latest book, "High Performance PostgreSQL for Rails," tracing its origins from an internal slide deck to a valuable resource for developers beyond the Rails framework. The episode explores the nuanced process of "Unshipping," as Andrew dissects Mixpanel's article, offering a roadmap for deprecating features without disappointing customers.

The episode is a treasure trove of insights, covering everything from optimizing database performance with rules to navigating the tricky terrain of advocating for codebase improvements in the face of reluctant stakeholders. Don't miss out on this dynamic exchange of ideas; tune in to the episode now for an enlightening journey through the realms of software development and database management.

Book Recommendations:

Staff Engineer: Leadership Beyond the Management Track By Will Larson

Helpful Links:

Mixpanel: The art of removing features and products
Order High Performance PostgreSQL for Rails (USE PROMO CODE: Maintainable for 35% off!)
Coverband
https://andyatkinson.com/
https://github.com/andyatkinson
https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyatkinson

Thanks to Our Sponsor!

Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and soon, other frameworks.

It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.

Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Check them out!

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Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.

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Jimmy Koppel - Aspects of Good Code

16 januari 2024 | 44 min

Robby engages in a captivating conversation with the CEO at Mirdin and UpToSpeed, Jimmy Koppel. They delve into the transformative power of evolvable code, shedding light on its myriad benefits and how it contributes to an enriching coding experience. Drawing inspiration from Jimmy's insightful blog post, "The 11 Aspects of Good Code," the discussion unfolds to explore the external qualities of code and the profound impact of crafting code that is not just functional, but a joy to work with. Jimmy shares his vision for UpToSpeed, a platform aiming to revolutionize the onboarding process for software engineers through the strategic use of AI tools, offering a glimpse into the future of seamless integration for new team members.

From the nuances of recovering the programmer's intent through well-crafted code to intriguing references to "Zen and the Art of Motorcycles," this episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about the art and science of coding. Unlock the secrets of creating code that not only meets technical requirements but also enhances the human experience of programming. Discover the unique blend of philosophy and practicality as Jimmy and Robby explore the fascinating world of code evolution, drawing on diverse insights from literature, AI, and the shared wisdom of seasoned developers.

Whether you're a coding enthusiast, a seasoned developer, or someone intrigued by the intersection of technology and human expression, this episode promises to be an engaging journey through the nuances of software craftsmanship and the quest for code that stands the test of time. Tune in to gain a fresh perspective on the intricate dance between programmers and their creations, and learn how the pursuit of excellence in coding can truly be a pleasurable and rewarding endeavor.

Book Recommendations:

Helpful Links:

Thanks to Our Sponsor!

Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and soon, other frameworks.

It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.

Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Check them out!

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Hila Fish - Maintainable Infrastructure Code, Culture, and Documentation

9 januari 2024 | 62 min

Robby has a chat with Senior DevOps Engineer, Hila Fish. They start off by discussing the key characteristics of maintainable infrastructure code. Hila shared insights on providing software engineering teams with the necessary space for exploration while maintaining essential guardrails to ensure the stability of production environments. The conversation also touched upon the significance of offering engineers useful metrics and dashboards for measuring load and stress tests. Robby and Hila reminisced about the evolution of roles like sysadmins and DBAs over the decades, highlighting the transformative journey of infrastructure management.

A focal point of the episode was Hila's experience leading a large migration project from Bitbucket Cloud to a self-hosted Gitlab within a tight six-week timeframe. She emphasized the importance of rigorous testing in both development and production environments, effective communication with stakeholders and the team, and other critical aspects of successful project management. The discussion extended to personal and professional development, with Hila underlining the importance of regularly evaluating one's values against those of the employer and the value of self-retrospectives.

The challenges in hiring for potential versus expertise in an industry that demands a combination of both were explored. The episode also featured insights into DevOpsDays TLV, Hila's involvement in tech events, and valuable tips for overcoming the initial fear of speaking at such events, accompanied by her own unconventional journey to delivering her first talk. It’s going to be an interesting episode, so don’t miss out.

Helpful Links:

Thanks to Our Sponsor!

Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and soon, other frameworks.

It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.

Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Check them out!

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Jacob Aronoff - At Least One Person Who Cares To See It Through

21 november 2023 | 47 min

Robby has a chat with Staff Software Engineer at Lightstep from ServiceNow, Jacob Aronoff. Their conversation delves into the vital signs of a thriving open source software project. They unpack the characteristics of well-maintained open source endeavors, emphasizing the importance of a passionate community behind the project, rather than misleading indicators like GitHub stars. They discuss the nuances of evaluating a project's health through performance metrics, suggesting that a more holistic view that includes the scrutiny of open issues can provide better insights into the project's robustness and responsiveness to community needs.

Furthermore, their discussion highlights a critical, yet often overlooked, aspect of open source software: the project's own dependencies. Jacob argues that understanding these dependencies is crucial before adopting an open source solution, as it could have far-reaching implications on the stability and security of one's own project. They also take a deep dive into the organizational dynamics of the OpenTelemetry community, examining its structured approach to scaling and sustaining the project over time. Their discussion then transitions into the philosophical debate of balancing between the extremes of premature abstraction and delivering a fully opinionated software project.

Jacob shares his penchant for “building in the open”, advocating for transparency and community involvement in the development process. He provides valuable advice for both newcomers looking to contribute to open source projects and maintainers seeking to attract new talent. In a personal touch, he extends his gratitude to Robby for creating Oh My Zsh, sharing his own journey in developing a custom theme for it.

Moreover, Jacob expresses his preference for pure functional languages, hinting at the broader discussion around programming paradigms and their influence on open source software development. Stay tuned for that and more!

Book Recommendations:

Killers of the Flower Moon By David Grann and The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy By Douglas Adams

Helpful Links:

Thanks to Our Sponsor!

Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and soon, other frameworks.

It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.

Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Check them out!

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Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.

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Oliver Drotbohm - Modulithic Applications

14 november 2023 | 42 min

Robby has a chat with Oliver Drotbohm, a Staff 2 Engineer at VMware. They explore the essence of maintainable software, pinpointing understandability and modifiability as its foundational pillars. Drawing from Dr. Carola Lilienthal's "Sustainable Software Architecture: Analyze and Reduce Technical Debt," Robby and Oliver dissect the metaphor of technical debt, discussing its historical context and its relevance in today's fast-paced software development environment.

Their nuanced conversation balanced the need for making compromises with the risk of over-preparation, emphasizing the critical role that clear documentation of architecture design decisions plays. They further delve into the iterative nature of building sustainable software, advocating for a build-feedback-repeat cycle to ensure that the right product is being developed.

Their discussion pivots to the strategic use of microservices, unpacking the circumstances that justify their implementation and the inherent tradeoffs. An overview of the Modulithic project for Java Spring presents a modern approach to modular software development. They round off with a sneak peek of Oliver's book, "Modulithic Applications with Spring," while also touching upon the inherent challenges of writing technical literature in an industry where change is the only constant. Tune in and enjoy!

Book Recommendations:

The Creative Act: A Way of Being By Rick Rubin

Helpful Links:

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Thanks to Our Sponsor!

Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and soon, other frameworks.

It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.

Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Check them out!

Subscribe to Maintainable on:

Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.

Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.

Colin Campbell - The Daily Habits of Effective Engineers

7 november 2023 | 41 min

Robby has a chat with Colin Campbell, the Director of Engineering at Tucows. Colin delves into the professional ethos of software development, emphasizing that the caliber of an engineer’s work is a reflection of their daily habits. He stressed the importance of humility for software engineers, arguing that it is crucial for continuous improvement and effective teamwork. He also talked about the strategic approach of doing nothing during Sprint Zero, suggesting that thorough planning and groundwork are essential before diving into actual code deployment.

The conversation transitions to the practical aspects of the craft, sharing insights from his experience of refactoring the OpenSRS platform at Tucows. Colin expresses a strong stance against total rewrites of systems, except when transitioning to new platforms, advocating for the incremental and strategic improvements using the Strangler Fig pattern. He also describes the satisfaction derived from identifying and rectifying “code smells” through refactoring, underscoring this practice as a source of professional fulfillment.

Moreover, he provides a glimpse into the life of platform engineers, detailing the intricacies of supporting application developers and the necessity of being decisively focused when addressing specific programming tasks, hence being “ruthless” to the ticket at hand to ensure quality and efficiency. For that and so much more, tune in to the episode on your favorite podcast platform.

Book Recommendations:

The Creative Act By Rick Rubin

Helpful Links:

Thanks to Our Sponsor!

Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and soon, other frameworks.

It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.

Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Check them out!

Subscribe to Maintainable on:

Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.

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Subscribe to Maintainable on:

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Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.

Dave Bryant Copeland - Quantifying the Carrying Cost

3 oktober 2023 | 43 min

Cameron Jacoby - Am I Learning From This?

26 september 2023 | 49 min

Adriana Villela - On Being a Serial Refactorer

22 augusti 2023 | 51 min

Ahmed Wasfy - Thriving as an Engineering Manager

8 augusti 2023 | 56 min

Naomi Ceder - People-Centric Community Building

4 juli 2023 | 48 min

Nadia Odunayo - Don't Try to Solve a Pain Point For a Problem You Aren't Experiencing

19 juni 2023 | 57 min

Daniela Baron - About Those Docs

12 juni 2023 | 49 min

Cory House - Finding Opportunities for Improvement

5 juni 2023 | 35 min

Avery Quinn - Can You Quantify the Impact?

22 maj 2023 | 40 min

Carlos Blé - Código Sostenible

24 april 2023 | 50 min

Lena Reinhard - How Will People Get Stuff Done?

17 april 2023 | 56 min

Eric Normand - Grokking Simplicity

13 mars 2023 | 47 min

Henrik Warne - There is No Software Maintenance

6 mars 2023 | 43 min

Andy Croll - Keep the Weird Stuff Weird

6 februari 2023 | 50 min

Marianne Bellotti - Building Empathy by Asking, "How Would You Write This in 2007?"

16 januari 2023 | 62 min

Arpit Mohan - Aspiring To Be Boring As Possible

26 december 2022 | 52 min

Noah Clark - Maintainable Software is a Team Sport

19 december 2022 | 59 min

Ben Parisot - Documentation Just Needs To Be Used Once

7 november 2022 | 61 min

Stefanni Brasil - When Is Tackling Tech Debt Possible?

17 oktober 2022 | 41 min

Andrea Goulet - Empathy-Driven Software Development

10 oktober 2022 | 55 min

Robby has a chat with Andrea Goulet, the CEO of Corgibytes, a software development shop dedicated to maintaining and modernizing software applications. Named by LinkedIn as one of the top ten professionals in software under 35, Andrea is the host of the podcast Legacy Code Rocks, is the author of the forthcoming book, “Empathy-Driven Software Development”, has co-founded several successful technology companies, and has taught over 50,000 students how to turn soft skills like empathy and communication into software skills.

Through her newest venture, Heartware.dev, she is on a mission to operationalize empathy for tech teams and keynotes frequently about building a business based on balance, empathy, and trust; the perils of the technical/non-technical divide; and the technical philosophies around working with legacy code. Andrea says that the maintainability of software comes down to trust and while she doesn't find the term technical debt useful, she uses it in instances where it’s being widely used especially in software remodeling projects. From her experience, the term is not useful at all when dealing with business-minded people who view debt differently.

She points out that the success of a project is always highly dependent on the project owner and the team working on their project having shared goals as they approach the writing of software. Robby and Andrea will also dive into why we should avoid deferring to other people and defaulting to being ticket takers, how empathy has different definitions, avoiding us vs them thinking, and so much more. Stay tuned and enjoy!

Book Recommendations:

Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself by Nedra Glover Tawwab

Helpful Links

Subscribe to Maintainable on:

Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.

Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community

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John Ousterhout - It's Not You, It's the Codebase

19 september 2022 | 49 min

Courtney Wilburn - Maintainable Software Has Good Community Around It

12 september 2022 | 48 min

Nelida Velazquez - We Have to Express Our Opinions

5 september 2022 | 38 min

Casey Watts! - Culturesmithing

8 augusti 2022 | 45 min

Marc Cornellà - Maintaining Open Source Projects

1 augusti 2022 | 30 min

Shanea Leven - How To Bring Visibility To Your Codebase

4 juli 2022 | 43 min

Greg Foster - A Pattern for Smaller, Faster, and Frequent Code Reviews

27 juni 2022 | 45 min

Urban Hafner - Management Isn't For Everyone

13 juni 2022 | 39 min

Amy Isikoff Newell - Code Shouldn't Drive Us To Drink

30 maj 2022 | 40 min

Podcast Panel at RailsConf 2022

27 maj 2022 | 42 min

Chelsea Troy - All Code Has Maintenance Load

16 maj 2022 | 52 min

Paula Paul - Getting People To Understand Is a Challenge

25 april 2022 | 45 min

Robby has a chat with Paula Paul, a distinguished engineer with Greyshore Associates, where she helps organizations adopt cloud-native technology and serves the community as an ABI Syster, diversity speaker, and mentor. Paula entered the workforce in the early ‘80s as a software engineer with IBM , where she shipped her first product on magnetic tape. She’s had roles in product development, engineering management, consulting, and she’s led several modernization efforts along the way.

Paula will highlight readability and unit testing as the two most important characteristics of maintainable software, and dive into what legacy code really is, how technical debt has changed over the years, and how the industry underestimates the emotional and mental cost of context-switching. From her many years in the game, Paula will also talk about her long experience of software modernization and share her expertise on why engineers should pay enough attention to cleaning their code as they go, how organizations have to grapple with different challenges due to ineffective technical decision making processes, finding the right balance of automated testing, and so much more.

For those of you who are trying to figure out what direction to head in where your engineering careers are concerned, Paula will share her wisdom in what it’s like to work in the consulting space versus a product-oriented organization. It’s going to be one very resourceful episode so don’t miss out.

Book Recommendations:

The City of Ember by Jeanne DuPrau

Helpful Links

Subscribe to Maintainable on:

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Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community

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Ben Halpern - Adventures In Open Sourcing Your Existing Application

18 april 2022 | 48 min

Avdi Grimm - Don't Be Too Clingy To Your Tests

11 april 2022 | 44 min

Aran Khanna - De-risk Your Cloud Resources

4 april 2022 | 44 min

Jerod Santo - Having to Maintain Your Own Cleverness

28 mars 2022 | 54 min

Idit Levine - Production is the Real Test

21 mars 2022 | 43 min

Emily Giurleo - Maintaining Open Source vs Proprietary Software

7 februari 2022 | 48 min

Jean Yang - Not All Software is Meant to be Maintained

13 december 2021 | 49 min

Shaundai Person: Work on Having a Short-term Memory

29 november 2021 | 51 min

Chris Birchall: Re-Engineering Legacy Software

22 november 2021 | 40 min

Swizec Teller: What is a Senior (Engineer) Mindset?

8 november 2021 | 42 min

Heidi Waterhouse: Documentation: The Best Diff is a Red Diff

1 november 2021 | 47 min

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby Russell chats with Heidi Waterhouse, Transformation Advocate at LaunchDarkly and contributor to "Docs for Developers." Heidi shares her insights on the crucial role documentation plays in software maintenance, how to manage documentation debt, and why "the best diff is a red diff."

Episode Highlights

[00:00:53] Heidi's Take on Maintainable Software: Discussing the characteristics of well-maintained software, with a focus on modularity and context-aware decisions.
[00:02:16] Documenting Context in Code: The importance of leaving behind the rationale for past decisions to help future developers understand trade-offs.
[00:04:09] Stress vs. Creativity: The mental firewall between stress-driven fixes and creative problem-solving and how it affects documentation.
[00:05:53] Making Documentation a Habit: Techniques for leaving helpful notes in code and why documenting as you go is crucial.
[00:07:12] Documentation Debt: Exploring the concept of documentation technical debt and how it parallels code technical debt.
[00:09:49] Pruning Documentation: Strategies for regularly reviewing and archiving outdated documentation to keep the signal strong.
[00:12:02] Templating Documentation: How to start documenting without the fear of a blank page using templates and examples.
[00:14:01] Where to Document: Tips on deciding the best place to store documentation and ensuring it is easily accessible.
[00:18:47] The Pitfalls of Video Tutorials: Why video tutorials can be a time bomb and the importance of searchable, updateable documentation.
[00:21:12] Starting with Public Speaking: Heidi's journey into public speaking, starting with anger-driven topics and evolving to educational resources.
[00:26:26] Dealing with Rejection in Public Speaking: The reality of talk proposal rejections and why it's not a reflection of your value as a speaker.
[00:30:14] Code Ergonomics: How the physical layout of code and workspace can affect developer productivity and reduce context switching.
[00:36:39] Improving Documentation Culture: Advice for new team members on finding allies and starting small to improve documentation practices.
[00:40:15] Integrating Documentation with Code: Making documentation part of the code review process and defining it as part of the "done" criteria.

Key Takeaways

Documentation is a crucial part of maintaining software, and its importance should not be underestimated.
Regularly pruning and archiving outdated documentation helps keep the information relevant and useful.
The best way to combat documentation debt is by making documentation an integral part of the development process.
Public speaking can start small and doesn’t require expertise—passion and personal experiences are powerful drivers.

Helpful Links

Heidi's Website
Heidi's Twitter
Heidi's LinkedIn
Order the new book, Docs for Developers, that Heidi is a co-author of
Blog post: When you stare into the blank page, it stares back at you
Video: Lillian Gilbreth: First Lady of Engineering

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DHH: Celebrating Legacy Software as a Victory and the Story of How Humans Can't Estimate

4 oktober 2021 | 53 min

Robby speaks with David Heinemeier Hansson (aka DHH), Creator of Ruby on Rails and CTO of Basecamp / HEY.

Disclaimer: Robby sat down with DHH in early March 2021 about ~5-6 weeks before Basecamp's policy changes were announced and the significant impact that had within our community. It's quite likely that some of Basecamp's internal software engineering processes have since changed.

In an enthralling episode of Maintainable, host Robby is joined by David Heinemeier Hansson (DHH), the original brain behind Ruby on Rails and the CTO of Basecamp & Hey. They embark on a deep exploration of the software world, challenging conventional views and celebrating the often underappreciated aspects of software development.

The discussion kicks off with a refreshing perspective on legacy software. DHH and Robby delve into why legacy software should be celebrated as a victory, a testament to its success and durability in a fast-evolving tech landscape. This sets the stage for a broader conversation about the lifecycle and evolution of software products.

They then shift gears to Basecamp's approach to versioning their SaaS products. Unlike the common industry trend of continuous iteration on a single version, Basecamp has made strategic choices to release new versions, a decision rooted in their unique business and product philosophy. This leads to an insightful discussion on how Basecamp handles the balance between innovation and maintenance, including the management of security backports and the upkeep of their software.

DHH introduces listeners to the concept of ShapeUp, Basecamp/HEY's innovative approach to project management. He explains how their team uses two-week cooldown periods to manage bugs and follow-up work, ensuring that the development process remains agile and responsive to emerging needs.

The conversation also delves into the specialized teams at Basecamp, such as the Security Infrastructure Performance (SIP) team, which plays a crucial role in addressing security concerns and handling reactive work. This is juxtaposed with the Research & Fidelity team's focus on building and extracting frameworks, highlighting the diverse strategies employed to maintain and evolve a robust software environment.

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Ruby on Rails. DHH shares why a major rewrite of Rails has never been necessary, attributing it to the framework's solid foundation and continuous improvement. He also sheds light on the types of testing that provide the most value in their Ruby on Rails applications and offers a candid take on Test-Driven Development (TDD).

Finally, DHH and Robby discuss the importance of budgeting time and resources in software projects, contrasting it with traditional estimating methods. They conclude with a discussion on the competitive advantage of Ruby on Rails in the current technology landscape and why it's perfectly fine that Rails isn't always the center of tech conversations anymore.

Book Recommendation: "The Manual" by Epictetus

Helpful Links

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Matt Wynne: Cucumber and Why Is TDD Such a Challenge?

2 augusti 2021 | 41 min

Tom Granot: Finding Your Style When Explaining Things to Technical Audiences

19 juli 2021 | 46 min

Andrew Watkins: How To Test What You're Trying to Build

28 juni 2021 | 47 min

Rodney Cobb: Repeatable. Testable. Scalable.

21 juni 2021 | 45 min

Dr. Michaela Greiler: Getting Awesome at Code Reviews

14 juni 2021 | 41 min

Mark Kilby: Overcoming Challenges that Remote Technical Teams Experience

24 maj 2021 | 53 min

Kevin Stewart: Short-term Decisions That Need To Be Revisited

19 maj 2021 | 51 min

Ken Fogel: What Are You Leaving Behind?

10 maj 2021 | 48 min

Murray Steele: Maintainable Code Is Easy to Turn Off and Delete

26 april 2021 | 59 min

Dr. Felienne Hermans: Looking Inside The Programmer's Brain

19 april 2021 | 49 min

Bertold Kolics: Are You Carrying the Weight of Dead Code?

12 april 2021 | 52 min

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby Russell sits down with Bertold Kolics, Software Quality Manager at mabl, to discuss the critical role of automated testing, the challenges of maintaining legacy code, and the art of pruning dead code from your software projects. With a focus on enabling teams and fostering maintainable software, Bertold provides practical insights into how developers and testers can work together to keep codebases lean, healthy, and efficient.

Episode Highlights

[00:05:32] Automated Testing as Documentation: Bertold emphasizes the importance of automated tests in documenting application behavior, making them a crucial tool in maintaining a clean and well-functioning codebase.
[00:12:33] Dead Code and Code Pruning: Explore Bertold's analogy of carrying the extra weight of unused features and dead code, and why it’s essential to prune your software regularly to maintain its health.
[00:21:24] Third-Party Dependencies and Risks: Discussion on the risks associated with third-party libraries and APIs, and how to manage them effectively to avoid unexpected technical debt.
[00:29:09] Contextual Decision-Making: Bertold shares insights on why copying processes from other companies, like Spotify’s squad model, doesn’t always work and the importance of context in decision-making.
[00:36:00] Contributing Back to Open Source: Advice on the importance of contributing back to open-source projects that your company relies on, whether through code contributions or financial support.
[00:41:02] Running Internship Programs: Bertold discusses the value of integrating interns into real projects and how it benefits both the interns and the existing team.
[00:49:00] Starting with Automated Testing: Practical advice for developers in teams lacking comprehensive test suites, with tips on how to begin implementing automated testing effectively.

Key Takeaways

The Power of Automated Tests: Automated tests don’t just verify code; they serve as living documentation, reducing the need for constantly updated documentation files.
Prune Your Code Regularly: Just like a garden, your codebase needs regular pruning to remove outdated or unused features, which can otherwise become a burden.
Manage Third-Party Dependencies Carefully: Every third-party component adds potential risk. Choose libraries and APIs carefully, and always have a plan for managing updates or deprecations.
Context Matters: Understand the specific context of your business and team before adopting processes or tools that worked well for others.
Contribute to Open Source: If you rely on open-source tools, consider contributing back to those projects, whether through code, documentation, or financial support.
Integrate Interns into Real Projects: Give interns the opportunity to work on real-world projects to provide them with valuable experience and integrate them fully into your team.

Helpful Links

Bert's Website
Bert's Twitter
Bert's LinkedIn
[Book Recommendation] The Economics of Emotion: How to Build a Business Everyone Will Love, Kyle M.K.

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Kent C. Dodds: AHA Programming and Testing JavaScript

7 april 2021 | 47 min

Mark Adams: HOWTO Prepare (Your Nails) for Burning Man

1 april 2021 | 16 min

Amy Sorensen: Nail Baths vs Nail Soaks

1 april 2021 | 16 min

Logan Luke Tyler Tanner: Overcoming Nail Biting During a Pandemic

1 april 2021 | 19 min

Erica Tafavoti: Adding Density to Extend Their Life

1 april 2021 | 21 min

Duncan Thorpe: Disrupting the Mammalian Industrial Nail Complex

1 april 2021 | 22 min

Shannon Jackson: Oh, Wait, Nope...Those Aren't My Gutter Nails

1 april 2021 | 19 min

Brian Scanlan: Improving Oncall Support with Meaningful Alarms

29 mars 2021 | 53 min

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby is joined by Brian Scanlan, Principal Systems Engineer at Intercom. Brian shares insights into how Intercom has successfully implemented a volunteer-led on-call support system, emphasizing the importance of meaningful alarms and a consistent software environment.

Summary of Topics

[00:05:32] Introduction to the Guest's Background: Brian Scanlan discusses his role at Intercom and his experience with on-call practices.
[00:15:10] Developing a Volunteer-Led On-Call System: Brian explains how Intercom transitioned to a volunteer-led on-call system, ensuring that alarms are meaningful and actionable.
[00:20:00] The Role of Consistent Software Architecture: The impact of Intercom’s monolithic Ruby on Rails architecture on simplifying on-call duties.
[00:29:46] Managing Technical Debt as Velocity Risks: Brian describes how Intercom manages technical debt through a velocity risk framework.
[00:38:45] Improving Deployment Processes: The evolution of Intercom’s deployment processes, reducing the time from merge to production.
[00:43:32] Treating Internal Tools as a Product: The importance of treating internal tools with the same care as external products, focusing on usability and impact.
[00:50:56] Encouraging Small Wins in Productivity: How Intercom encourages engineers to address small productivity issues to prevent larger problems.
[00:51:39] Balancing Innovation with Stability: Intercom’s conservative approach to engineering and how it helps maintain a stable product.

Key Takeaways

Meaningful Alarms: Ensure that all alarms are actionable and represent real or inevitable customer pain.
Consistent Architecture: A consistent software environment, like Intercom's Ruby on Rails monolith, simplifies on-call duties and allows for greater flexibility across teams.
Velocity Risk Framework: Managing technical debt by quantifying its impact on velocity helps prioritize the most impactful work.
Continuous Improvement: Regular reviews and continuous improvement are essential for maintaining a sustainable on-call system.
Product-Focused Engineering: At Intercom, the emphasis is on building products, not just writing code, ensuring that engineers are focused on delivering value.

Helpful Links

Intercom's Engineering Site
Brian's Twitter
Brian's LinkedIn
[Book Recommendation] Choice Theory: A New Psychology of Personal Freedom, William Glasser

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Alexandre Omeyer: Removing the Barriers to Track Technical Debt

22 mars 2021 | 51 min

Roopak Venkatakrishnan: The Importance of Optimizing For Local Development and Build Systems

15 mars 2021 | 49 min

Benjamin Wood: Rescuing Ruby on Rails Projects

8 mars 2021 | 42 min

Johanna Rothman: No, Great Developers Aren't Destined to Be Great Managers

2 mars 2021 | 54 min

Helen Scott: Strategies For Measuring Developer Experience (DX)

24 februari 2021 | 38 min

Robert Kaufman: Running a Consultancy and a Coding School

16 februari 2021 | 72 min

Heidi Helfand: The Art and Wisdom of Changing Teams

8 februari 2021 | 61 min

Jutta Eckstein: How Software Impacts Our Planet

2 februari 2021 | 54 min

John Cech: How To Mentor Interns On Software Projects

25 januari 2021 | 44 min

Theresa Neate: Testing != Quality

19 januari 2021 | 49 min

Michael Springer: Vetting External Dependencies

11 januari 2021 | 51 min

Jason Swett: Refactoring Is Necessary to Keep Your Blade Sharp

4 januari 2021 | 44 min

Sudhir Reddy: Don't Be Afraid to Slash and Burn

28 december 2020 | 40 min

Monica Lent: Progress Is More Important Than Perfection

21 december 2020 | 50 min

Trae Robrock: Understanding Your Risk Tolerance As An Engineer

14 december 2020 | 50 min

Mark Erikson: Accidentally Becoming an Open Source Maintainer

7 december 2020 | 47 min

Bonnie Brennan: Building Community

30 november 2020 | 48 min

Khaled Souf: Track Down Dead Code and Delete it

23 november 2020 | 49 min

Adrianna Chang: Using the Strangler Fig Pattern at Shopify

16 november 2020 | 41 min

Mark Downie: Balancing The Promises That Open Source Projects Make

9 november 2020 | 41 min

Glenn Vanderburg: Don't Ask For Small Things

2 november 2020 | 42 min

Suzan Bond: Embracing Discomfort and Navigating Transitions

26 oktober 2020 | 43 min

Nicolas Carlo: Changing Messy Software Without Breaking It

19 oktober 2020 | 47 min

Brittany Martin: How to Quit Your Job and Leave Your Code in Good Hands

12 oktober 2020 | 48 min

Luke Redpath: User Stories Should Prompt Conversations

5 oktober 2020 | 52 min

Hampton Lintorn Catlin: Only Add Complexity When Necessary

28 september 2020 | 69 min

Pat Kua: The Challenges that Come with Becoming a Tech Lead

21 september 2020 | 35 min

Aaron Blohowiak: The Myth of the Sufficiently Smart Engineer

14 september 2020 | 51 min

Magda Miu: Building a Technical Leadership Career Around Teaching

7 september 2020 | 59 min

Gant Laborde: Technical Debt — Trading Risk for an Advantage

31 augusti 2020 | 45 min

Karen Lee Rigg: Where Are the Bad Habits Coming From?

24 augusti 2020 | 49 min

Gianluca Arbezzano: Technical Debt Beyond Code & Your First Contributions to Open Source

13 juli 2020 | 44 min

Ali Spittel: Junior Developers and Helping Unlock Their Potential

6 juli 2020 | 47 min

Robby Russell: Turning the Mic Around with Kayla Reopelle

29 juni 2020 | 71 min

Ryan Cromwell: Is the Juice Worth the Squeeze?

22 juni 2020 | 48 min

Camille Fournier: How Does a Developer Become a Manager?

15 juni 2020 | 47 min

Gonçalo Silva: How A Fully-Remote Team Builds and Maintains Software

1 juni 2020 | 45 min

Tudor Girba: Moldable Development and Software Environmentalism

25 maj 2020 | 44 min

Jeff Haynie: How Can We Make Software Development Better for Dev Teams?

18 maj 2020 | 52 min

Vladimir Khorikov: 100% Test Coverage is an Artificial Metric

11 maj 2020 | 61 min

Bryan Helmkamp: Don't Let Perfect Be The Enemy of Good

4 maj 2020 | 36 min

Dr. Aino Vonge Corry: Why Do We Have Retrospectives, Again?

27 april 2020 | 46 min

Trisha Gee: Developers Should Invest More Time Into Learning Their Tools

20 april 2020 | 42 min

Sandi Metz: Making is Easy, Mending is a Challenge

13 april 2020 | 47 min

In this episode of the Maintainable Software Podcast, Robby is joined by Sandi Metz, a renowned programmer, author, and speaker known for her expertise in object-oriented programming and maintainable code. Sandi shares her invaluable insights on various aspects of software development, focusing on writing code that stands the test of time.

Episode Highlights

Maintaining Readable Code: Sandi emphasizes that the cost of software lies in its readability. She discusses the importance of writing code with good names and gentle organization, making it easier for future developers to understand.
Avoiding Clever Code: Sandi warns against writing overly clever code that even the author might not understand later. Instead, she advocates for clear and simple code that conveys the programmer's good intentions to future readers.
Documentation and Integration Tests: While Sandi believes in minimal documentation at the object level, she stresses the importance of integration tests and visual aids that show how everything fits together.
Common Legacy Code Issues: Sandi identifies common patterns of problematic code in legacy systems, often resulting from neglected complexity and social bargains within teams that lead to unwieldy classes and procedures.
Technical Debt vs. Bad Code: She discusses the nuanced difference between technical debt and bad code, emphasizing the need for shared language and understanding between developers and stakeholders.
Training and Education: Sandi reflects on the importance of proper training for developers and how educational institutions might better prepare students for the real-world challenges of maintaining existing codebases.
Small Pieces, Big Impact: Advocating for the creation of small, manageable pieces of code, Sandi explains how this approach simplifies maintenance and enhances code readability.
Refactoring Strategies: Sandi shares strategies for refactoring large classes and objects, often seen in Rails applications, and the benefits of creating service objects and other intermediary classes.
Long-Term Framework Viability: Sandi discusses the future of frameworks like Rails, the importance of not being overly reliant on them, and preparing for potential technological shifts.

You'll also hear some thoughts on Ruby and Rails and how Sandi uses the phrase "Lambs to the Slaughter."

Tune in to this insightful episode and learn from one of the best in the industry about writing maintainable software that your future self will thank you for!

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Clare Sudbery: Refactoring Should Be Part of Your Daily Work

6 april 2020 | 51 min

Kelly Sutton: Custodians of the Monolith

30 mars 2020 | 38 min

Jonathan Abourbih: Creating a Culture Where It's Okay To Take Risks

23 mars 2020 | 44 min

Jessica Kerr: Software Is Not A Craft (or an Art)

9 mars 2020 | 41 min

Jon Thornton: Technical Debt is a Good Thing (Sometimes)

2 mars 2020 | 40 min

Ben Orenstein: "Someday We'll Go Clean That Up" Doesn't Work

24 februari 2020 | 31 min

Ernesto Tagwerker: Tracking Technical Debt With Metrics (aka Stink Score)

17 februari 2020 | 47 min

Marit van Dijk: How Are We Going to Test This?

10 februari 2020 | 37 min

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby sits down with Marit van Dijk, a Software Engineer at bol.com. Marit brings a wealth of experience from her work on complex systems and her involvement in the European testing conference and the Cucumber community. They dive deep into the importance of testing, maintaining legacy code, and the collaborative nature of software development.

Episode Highlights

[00:01:00] The Role of Tests in Well-Maintained Codebases: Marit emphasizes the importance of clear and intent-driven tests in understanding application behavior and maintaining code quality.
[00:01:55] Dependency Management in Legacy Systems: Marit discusses the challenges of keeping dependencies up to date and the potential issues that arise when they fall behind.
[00:02:35] Documentation Practices: Exploring the differences in documentation needs for internal projects versus open-source projects, and how README files play a critical role in onboarding and running applications.
[00:05:09] Defining Technical Debt: Marit shares her perspective on technical debt, including the concept of "code rot" and how it can slow down development over time.
[00:06:41] Empathy in Software Maintenance: The importance of understanding the context in which legacy code was written and having empathy for past decisions.
[00:08:53] Test-Driven Development for Bug Fixing: Marit explains how writing tests first when fixing bugs can ensure a thorough understanding of the issue and lead to more reliable fixes.
[00:14:52] bol.com's Approach to Automation: How bol.com uses automation tools to maintain its large-scale platform, ensuring consistency and reliability across its services.
[00:15:48] Collaborative Coding: The benefits of pair programming and mob programming, and how they contribute to knowledge sharing and faster problem-solving within a team.
[00:18:03] Managing Technical Debt: Strategies for integrating technical debt management into the development process and how to advocate for it within a team.
[00:21:00] Isolating Test Environments: How Marit and her team use mock testing to ensure that tests are maintainable and independent of other services in their landscape.
[00:25:15] The Balance Between Refactoring and Rewriting: Marit shares her preference for refactoring over rewriting and discusses the challenges of maintaining complex applications.
[00:29:23] Advocating for Maintenance Work: Tips on how developers can make the case for addressing technical debt and maintenance within their teams.

Key Takeaways

Testing is a cornerstone of well-maintained software, helping to ensure that code behaves as expected and can be confidently changed or extended.
Documentation, whether in README files or more extensive systems like Confluence, is critical for both onboarding and long-term maintenance.
Managing technical debt is an ongoing process that requires empathy, strategic planning, and sometimes, a bit of civil disobedience.
Collaborative coding practices like pair programming and mob programming can accelerate problem-solving and foster a culture of continuous learning.
Refactoring code, rather than rewriting it from scratch, can often be a more effective approach to maintaining complex systems.

Helpful Links

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Mike Perham: How Developers Underestimate Long-Term Costs of External Dependencies

3 februari 2020 | 37 min

Ev Haus: Good Code Can Be Easily Deleted

27 januari 2020 | 47 min

Adam Tornhill: Prioritizing Technical Debt With Behavioral Code Analysis

20 januari 2020 | 43 min

M. Scott Ford: Menders In Hiding and the Joy of Legacy Code

13 januari 2020 | 43 min

Gitte Klitgaard: Making Space For Psychological Safety in Software Teams

6 januari 2020 | 40 min

Nathaniel Bibler: Communication Strategies Between Developers and Clients

23 december 2019 | 54 min

Abby Bangser: Building Trust In Your Deployment Pipeline

16 december 2019 | 31 min

Viktor Klang: Condensing The Codebase Over Time

9 december 2019 | 54 min

Beth Long: Maintainable Code Prioritizes How Humans Interact With It

2 december 2019 | 34 min

Emily Bache: It's Always More Fun to Code with Others

25 november 2019 | 35 min

Zee Spencer: How Can We Reduce Carrying Costs?

18 november 2019 | 38 min

Ana Nelson: Writing Maintainable Code Documentation with Automated Tools and Transclusion

4 november 2019 | 37 min

Dave Aronson: Putting the M in ACRUMEN

28 oktober 2019 | 44 min

Michael Feathers: Be Curious & Chase The Rabbit Holes

21 oktober 2019 | 32 min

In this episode of the Maintainable Software Podcast, Robby speaks with Michael Feathers, Director at R7K Research & Conveyance and author of "Working Effectively with Legacy Code." Michael shares his unique definition of legacy code, emphasizing that legacy code is essentially code without tests. This foundational idea highlights the critical role of automated testing in refactoring and maintaining codebases.

Michael and Robby dive into common issues developers face, such as low test coverage and the perceived optionality of writing tests. They explore how ego and human nature often influence developers' decisions not to write tests, even when frameworks provide the tools to do so.

One of the intriguing concepts discussed is a test-first IDE, which encourages writing tests before methods. Michael shares patterns and practices for integrating testing into existing projects, emphasizing the importance of social reinforcement and team collaboration in improving test coverage.

The conversation also touches on the importance of code quality traits like understandability and simplicity. Michael stresses that empathy in code quality impacts co-workers and that objective measures for code quality often stem from solid design principles. They also discuss the role of code analysis tools in understanding code quality.

Removing unused code from applications is another key topic, with Michael sharing insights on the relationship between business decisions and code maintenance. The discussion extends to Conway's Law and its effect on code design, providing valuable context for understanding how organizational structure influences software development.

Michael shares lessons from his early career, emphasizing the importance of curiosity and deep systems thinking in software development. He also discusses his upcoming projects, including the second edition of "Working Effectively with Legacy Code."

Key Takeaways:

Legacy code is code without tests.
Automated testing is crucial for refactoring and maintaining codebases.
Developers often perceive writing tests as optional, impacting code quality.
Social reinforcement and team collaboration are vital for improving test coverage.
Empathy in code quality positively affects co-workers.
Solid design principles help objectively measure code quality.
Removing unused code is essential for maintaining a clean codebase.
Conway's Law illustrates how organizational structure impacts code design.
Curiosity and deep systems thinking are valuable traits for software developers.

Resources Mentioned:

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Justin Searls: Learn To Understand The Runtime

14 oktober 2019 | 51 min

Patricia Aas: Intersection of Programming & Security

7 oktober 2019 | 33 min

Nate Berkopec: Why You Should Treat Performance Problems as Bugs

30 september 2019 | 32 min

Victor Rentea: Never Separate The Refactoring From The Deliverable

23 september 2019 | 35 min

Sandro Mancuso: Technical Debt is Anything Preventing You From Developing Fast

16 september 2019 | 38 min

Bryan Liles: Create an Issue for Everything

9 september 2019 | 40 min

Liz Keogh: The Power of Asking, "Can You Give Me An Example?"

2 september 2019 | 36 min

Colin Jones: Software Consulting: Being a Good Guest

26 augusti 2019 | 38 min

Jonathan Cutrell: Healthy Teams Know How to Eradicate Fear

19 augusti 2019 | 46 min

Karolina Szczur: The Importance of Documentation for Remote Developers

12 augusti 2019 | 36 min

Liran Haimovitch: The Benefits of Observability

5 augusti 2019 | 24 min

Robert Meaney: Building Software That is Easy to Test

29 juli 2019 | 45 min

Melissa Eaden: It's Never a One Person Job

22 juli 2019 | 48 min

Steve Poling: The Real Enemy is Murphy

15 juli 2019 | 33 min

Matt Weagle: What Will It Enable Us to Do in the Future?

8 juli 2019 | 28 min

Mariah Howard: How To Discuss Technical Debt With Product Managers

1 juli 2019 | 30 min

Anne Marie Kirby: Selling the Upside of Improving your Codebase to Management

24 juni 2019 | 23 min

Marco "Ocramius" Pivetta: What Senior Devs Should Spend More Time On (It's Not Writing Code)

17 juni 2019 | 47 min

Lisa Crispin: Agile Testing & Technical Debt

10 juni 2019 | 39 min

Pim Elshoff: Refactoring How Engineers Communicate With Management

3 juni 2019 | 41 min

Morgan Senkal: Using Epics to Improve Code Quality Within Sprints

27 maj 2019 | 25 min

Eileen M. Uchitelle: Upgrading Ruby on Rails At Github And How To Stay Updated

20 maj 2019 | 34 min

Charity Majors: Deploys Are Just The Beginning

13 maj 2019 | 34 min

Sahil Lavingia: Pushing Forward Through Technical Debt After a Massive Layoff

6 maj 2019 | 45 min

Coraline Ada Ehmke: The Role Of Empathy In Engineering Teams

29 april 2019 | 30 min

James Smith: What if We Measured Software with a Stability Score?

22 april 2019 | 37 min

Anna Filina: How Every Decision Introduces Technical Debt

15 april 2019 | 36 min

Maintainable

Do you feel like you're hitting a wall with your existing software projects? Are you curious to hear how other people are navigating this? You're not alone.

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Julia López: Code Tells a Story—Even the White Spaces

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Marty Haught: Rethinking Technical Debt—Is It Really Just Drift?

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Mike Bowers - From ISAM to JSON—Navigating 40+ Years of Database Evolution

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Lorna Mitchell: Writing Documentation Engineers Will Actually Read

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Carola Lilienthal: Tackling Technical Debt with Patterns and Domain Knowledge

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Joel Hawksley: The Hidden Costs of Frontend Complexity

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[00:01:12] What Defines Well-Maintained Software?

[00:03:05] Accessibility as a Priority

[00:08:49] Primer: GitHub’s Design System

[00:12:54] The Cost of Frontend Complexity

[00:28:05] Where to Start with Accessibility

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Austin Story: Making Software Easier to Change, Remove, and Evolve

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Dan Moore: Building Developer-Friendly Authentication Solutions

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Tom Johnson: From Auto-Documentation to Better Collaboration

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Gulcin Yildirim Jelinek: Maintaining Postgres for Modern Workloads

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Justine Gehring: Refactoring Software at Scale with AI

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Katerina Skroumpelou: Bridging Engineering and Advocacy for Scalable Software

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