Nobody Should Believe Me

Jo starts to make big strides within their personal life. From building community and finding friends, to finally being able to take care of themselves in a way that feels safe. They’ve even rediscovered their love for cheerleading. But just as they’re starting to forge a new relationship with their body, an injury causes a major setback. We talk to two of Jo’s closest people–their therapist Angie and their roommate Spencer–about watching Jo struggle through this difficult time, and gain insights into how survivors can be cared for during a health crisis.

***

Links/Resources: 

Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

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When Jo begins sharing their experiences online, they get a request from the producers of nationally broadcast television show “The Doctors” to tell their story to an audience of millions. During their dramatic confrontation on air, Donna continues to gaslight Jo and deny the abuse; Jo nonetheless finds healing and release in opening up about the truth. But even as Jo begins to break away, Donna finds ways to pull them back in and distort their reality. 

***

Links/Resources: 

Watch Jo’s episode of The Doctors

Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

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Today we look back at Jo’s revelation in their twenties that they’d been a victim of Munchausen by proxy abuse: a moment that turned their world upside down. As Jo forges a path forward – reviewing their medical records and even confronting their childhood pediatrician – they discover how complex healing from this abuse truly is.

Jo also opens up about their experiences with Dissociative Identity Disorder. We speak to Jo’s therapist, Angie, about their complicated system of coping mechanisms. We also bring in Jackie Rodriguez LMSW, QMHP-CS and peer support specialist Jade Miller to help us understand the deeply misunderstood and stigmatized condition of DID. 

***

Links/Resources: 

Jade Miler - https://www.peersupportformultiples.com/

Jackie Rodriguez, LMSW, QMHP-CS - Instagram 

Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jo reconnects with their friend, Kristin, who took them in as a homeless teenager after Jo was removed from Donna’s care due to her alcoholism. As a young mother in the midst of her own difficult situation, Kristin’s relationship with Jo had its challenges, but as they recount their time together, it’s a healing and clarifying moment for both of them. Jo continues on their rocky road to freedom from their mother’s clutches as they look for help from the medical community outside their mother’s influence.  

*A warning for listeners this episode does contain descriptions of disordered eating. Please take care. 

***

Links/Resources: 

Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

National Eating Disorders Resources: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/get-help/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As we dig deeper into Jo’s history, we tackle one of the many confusing aspects of their childhood: their paternity. We navigate the many twists and turns around the father figures in Jo’s life. From abusive men in the home to a secret father they never knew about, we unravel another complex layer of Donna’s deceptions. We hear more from Jo’s sister Crystal and talk to Jo’s biological father, Reza, about what it was like to be on the other side of the big lie.  

*A note that this episode does include mention of sexual assault and may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care. 

***

Links/Resources: 

Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

National Sexual Violence Resource Center

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this very special crossover episode with our friends at The Dating Detectives, Andrea joins private eye Mackenzie Fultz and comedian Hannah Anderson as they delve into a case of medical mystery and romantic deception. Mila joins us to tell her harrowing story about how her girlfriend’s tragic battle with brain cancer turned out to be something far more sinister.

***

Check out The Dating Detectives!

Follow The Dating Detectives on instagram.

Follow Hanna and Mackenzie on instagram.

Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

While visiting their hometown, Jo reconnects with their older sister, Crystal, to have the deeply honest and heart-wrenching conversation their mother never wanted them to have: one where they share the hard truths about the abuse they both suffered at her hand. Crystal and Jo reach a new level of understanding of their shared experiences and their love for each other. We also speak to Munchausen by proxy expert Bea Yorker to talk about the process of discovery and recovery for survivors. 

***

Links/Resources: 

Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Season 4 of Nobody Should Believe Me! This season we are following the story of Jordyn Hope as they unravel the secrets of their childhood. After revelations that they were abused as a child, Jo bravely returns to their small, deeply religious hometown to attempt to unravel their many lingering questions about their upbringing. Was their abuse a secret? If not, why didn’t anyone help them? Jo connects with her first grade teacher and childhood best friend as they begin their search for answers. Andrea travels with Jo, hoping to help her friend find healing, and to see what the future might look like for the survivors in her own life. 

***

Links/Resources: 

Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Andrea Dunlop interviews Madison McGhee, host of the Ice Cold Case podcast, about her personal journey investigating her father's unsolved murder in 2002. They discuss the emotional complexity of the investigation, the challenges of maintaining objectivity, and the broader implications of failings in the justice system. Madison shares insights into how her podcast developed, her experiences with family backlash, and her determination to find answers.

* * *

Listen to Ice Cold Case.

Follow Madison on Instagram.

Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if you woke up one day and discovered that your whole life had been a lie? When Jordyn Hope learned about Munchausen by proxy in a college psychology class, their life was immediately turned upside down. Everything about their history was suddenly cast in a new light: from the mysterious illnesses they’d been plagued with since birth to the constant emergency room visits to the gaslighting from their mother. Now, years later, Jo returns to their small, rural hometown of Hutchinson, MN to try to put the pieces back together and help make sense of their traumatic childhood. Along the way, the story of Jordyn’s life will be rewritten and their relationship with their mother takes a turn they never could have anticipated. This is a story of self-discovery unlike any other: one of resilience, healing, and surviving the unthinkable.

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Welcome to the Season 3 mailbag episode! Andrea is joined by Dr. Bex (aka Secret Florida Doctor Friend), to sort through all the commentary and listener feedback from Season 3. They tackle the good, the bad, and the just plain weird from the comments, and answer burning questions about the Kowalski case. We hear what it was like to cover this case in real time and to go on the road to meet some of the key players. Come down the rabbit hole with us!

* * *

Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week Andrea is joined by Kathleen Strader, the National Director for Healthy Families America, the signature home visiting program of Prevent Child Abuse America. Following the Take Care of Maya film and media coverage of so-called "medical kidnapping" and misleading coverage of child abuse, we move the conversation to solutions: what can we do to prevent child abuse? We delve into Kathleen's background dealing with child abuse cases and her work supporting families through home visiting programs. Their conversation touches on the complexities of child abuse, systemic issues, and the importance of supportive measures and interventions that meet families where they are. As we wrap up our coverage of the landmark Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens case, we issue a hopeful message of how we can alleviate one of society's most challenging problems.

* * *

Check out Prevent Child Abuse America.

Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

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This week Andrea is joined by Dr. Marc Feldman as she dives into the complexities and controversies surrounding medical child abuse and the developing story in Lehigh, PA about "overdiagnosis". They delve into the media’s role in shaping perceptions and the potential for a moral panic about doctors "falsely accusing" parents of child abuse. Andrea and Dr. Feldman address the challenges in protecting children, critiques of the healthcare and legal systems, and the broader social and political movement emerging from these cases.

* * *

Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join Andrea as she delves back into the ongoing legal battle of Kowalski v. Johns Hopkins All Children's Hospital, with Ethen Shapiro, the lead defense attorney for Johns Hopkins All Children's. They discuss the grounds for a retrial based on allegations of juror misconduct and the potential chilling effect on mandatory reporters following the substantial amount of money awarded to the Kowalski family by the jury.

We also look at the the broader societal impacts on mandatory reporting and the protecting vulnerable children from abuse.

* * *

Get up to speed on the Kowalski case with our Kowalski Catch-Up Playlist on Spotify

Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week's episode delves into the intricate details surrounding Beata Kowalski's death, which was central to the Kowalski's lawsuit against Johns Hopkins All Children's, as well as the documentary 'Take Care of Maya'. In court, Beata's death was presented as an act of maternal sacrifice and heroism. Through interviews and court deposition excerpts, we'll explore the odd circumstances leading up to and immediately after Beata's death that suggest a far more complex story might lie beneath the surface.

* * *

Get up to speed on the Kowalski case with our Kowalski Catch-Up Playlist on Spotify

Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As we prepare to launch Season Four next month, we’re revisiting the subject of Season Three—the landmark Kowalski v. Johns Hopkins All Children’s verdict, in which a jury awarded Jack Kowalski more than $200 million dollars in damages following the suicide of his wife Beata while their daughter Maya Kowalski was in state custody because a medical child abuse investigation. Though the media has been largely sympathetic to Kowalski’s case—thanks in large part to the popular Netflix film “Take Care of Maya”—our exploration continues to reveal that nothing about this story is what is seems.

With the case headed towards appeal, we take a closer look at newly released information about what was going on with the Kowalski family, as well as how this verdict is affecting mandatory reporting and the safety of children in pediatric hospitals all around the country.

* * *

Get up to speed on the Kowalski case with our Kowalski Catch-Up Playlist on Spotify

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this week's episode, Andrea is joined by Roberta Blevins, creator and host of the Life After MLM podcast, and Terra Newell, who was featured in mega-hit Dirty John podcast and has since created and hosts Terra's Baddy Club. The audience gets to listen in as these three women talk about about the pros and cons of having a personal connection to the topics of their podcasts, how that affects their coverage of the topic, and the intersection between Munchausen by proxy, MLMs, and domestic violence. *Special thanks for Spotify, who provided recording support for this episode!

* * *

Listen to Life After MLM.

Follow Roberta on Instagram.

Listen to Dirty John.

Listen to Terra's Baddy Club.

Follow Terra on Instagram.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com

* * *

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

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Listen to an episode we're releasing from our subscriber vault -- Andrea's full conversation with Hope Ybarra, whose story we've been revisiting in our look back at season one of the show. This conversation gives listeners a peek into the mind of a perpetrator and inspired the name of the show "Nobody Should Believe Me".

* * *

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com

* * *

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

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In the final episode of our look back at season one, Andrea reflects on her experience interviewing Hope Ybarra, how it impacted her in regards to her sister, and audience reactions to the conversation.

* * *

Andrea has made an intense connection with Hope Ybarra's family, and asked experts, doctors, and the detective so many of her burning questions about Munchausen by Proxy. But she's become increasingly fixated on talking to Hope herself as she comes to realize that it may be her only chance to get the insights she needs. In this stunning season one finale, Andrea travels to Mountain Home, Idaho, to meet with Hope Ybarra.

In this intense, emotional back-and-forth, we hear straight from Hope what life is like for her after being released from prison. We find out what she's up to and what she hopes for from the future. Hope listens to her own family—all of whom she's estranged from with the exception of Robin—talk about what she was like before everything fell apart. She insists that she still loves her children, despite what she did. We see the human being behind the monstrous acts that splashed Hope's story across headlines and landed her in prison for a decade.

Andrea asks Hope what might have been done to help her and what she might say to her younger self if she could go back. Finally, she tells Hope that if she really wants her family back, she should get treatment and offers to help her if she wants that.

Hope is friendly and warm in person, but Andrea is left with the unsettling truth that she hasn't changed.

* * *

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com

* * *

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

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After a look back at season 1 episode 7, Can They Be Saved?, Andrea reflects on how her thoughts regarding the psychopathology of Munchausen by Proxy has evolved over the years, as she has spoken to experts, survivors, and perpetrators of this abuse.

* * *

Andrea delves deep into her questions around the psychopathology of Munchausen by Proxy perpetrators. Floored by the similarities in the many cases she’s researched, she talks to two of the world's foremost experts on the disorder—Dr. Marc Feldman and Dr. Mary Sanders—about the characteristics, warning signs, and causes of the disorder that has upended the lives of so many people Andrea has spoken to throughout the course of the podcast. Why would a mother ever do this? What do they get from it? And most importantly, what could be done to stop them? Is it possible for someone who does these things to get treatment?

* * *

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andredunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com

* * *

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

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During this look back at the 6th episode of our first season, we hear the story of twin sisters who survived Munchausen by Proxy at the hands of their foster mother. At the end of the episode, we get a visit from very special guest, Erica Blake (then Handt), one of the sisters we interviewed almost 3 years ago. Andrea reconnects with her to chat about life since that interview.

***

As Andrea contemplates what the future looks like for survivors of Munchausen by Proxy, she gets an unexpected message from two young women who’ve lived it. After appearing with Marc Feldman on a podcast, Andrea hears from twin-sisters who survived MBP.

Liz and Erica Handt were taken from one terrifying situation to another when the foster mom who adopted them turns out to be abusive, telling the girls they had Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and dragging them from specialist to specialist. The twins' story is harrowing but ultimately hopeful as they're now thriving.

* * *

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andredunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com

* * *

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

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This is the 5th episode of our look back at season one of the show. We revisit Andrea's conversation with two more dads who were a part of Munchausen by Proxy cases. At the end of the episode, Andrea gives a brief update on one of the dads and shares her thoughts on how gender roles play into these cases and why such a high percentage of offenders are women.

***

As we learn from Detective Mike Weber, the father in a Munchausen by Proxy case can be the most important ally--or the biggest obstacle--in protecting child victims from abuse. In part two of Andrea’s examination of the father’s role in MBP cases, Andrea speaks to “John”, a father devastated but the revelation that his ex-wife had subjected their son to unnecessary brain surgery. We also talk to Ryan Crawford, a man who found himself fighting for his son’s life against a disbelieving system.

Plus we get a stunning real-time update on one of our cases as “John” decides to come forward with his true identity. You can listen to the follow-up interview with him here.

* * *

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andredunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com

More about Ryan Crawford's story: https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2019/august/the-boy-who-stayed-sick/

* * *

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

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Andrea connects with Dr. Jessica Pryce, an expert on the frontlines of child wellfare work, research, and reform. She talks to Andrea about her book, Broken: Transforming Child Protective Services, the child welfare system as a whole, and how her work applies to the needs of children and families affected by Munchausen by Proxy.

* * *

Learn more about Dr. Jessica Pryce here.

Purchase Broken: Transforming Child Protective Services here.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andredunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com

* * *

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During this re-aired episode, we revisit our conversation with 2 fathers affected by Munchausen by Proxy. At the end of the episode, we reconnect with George Hunnicut to discuss how life has been for him and his children after speaking to us on the show two years ago.

***

As we learn from Detective Mike Weber, the father in a Munchausen by Proxy case can be the most important ally--or the biggest obstacle--in protecting child victims from abuse. We learn more about how Andrea’s own family became divided during the first investigation into her sister and we meet George Hunnicut, a veteran who discovered his young wife was abusing their infant son and found himself up against a system that had no idea what to do for him.

* * *

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andredunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com

* * *

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

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We take a look back at the third episode of the show. At the end of the episode, we catch up with Detective Mike Weber, friend of the show and expert in the investigation of Medical Child Abuse.

***

Andrea speaks to Deanna Boyd, the crime reporter who broke the Hope Ybarra case and discovers that Hope's was one of many Munchausen By Proxy cases in Tarrant County that Deanna unearthed; all of which had flown under the radar. What's going on here? Why are there so many cases in this one area?

As Andrea interviews Deanna and meets with Detective Mike Weber, as well as Dr. Jayme Coffman and Dr. Karen Shultz--two doctors involved with the Ybarra and many other MBP cases--she makes a chilling discovery. It's not that there are so many cases in Tarrant County, it's just that they're catching them. If the systems meant to protect children were functioning, every county would look like Tarrant.

Andrea can only guess as to what truly went on behind the scenes in her own family's case, but she begins to grasp what the systems involved--CPS, the police, the doctors--are up against and why so many cases are destined to fail. Meanwhile, Andrea continues her maddening back-and-forth with Hope.

* * *

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andredunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com

* * *

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We take a look back at the second episode of the show. Stay tuned to hear Andrea share the story of how the show almost didn't air and what she learned from it. 

To learn more details about Andrea's sister's case, check out "Megan".  

***

We delve deeper into the story of Hope Ybarra, a young mother whose family discovers she’s been faking her eight-year-long battle with terminal cancer and begins to suspect her own health isn’t all she’s lying about. We talk more to Hope’s family and her ex-husband Fabian Ybarra about their efforts to unravel Hope’s many sinister deceptions.

We meet Detective Mike Weber, who was responsible for investigating Hope Ybarra, an early foray into what would become the main focus of his career: Munchausen by Proxy.

* * *

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to  Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com

* * *

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We're going back to the beginning with an extended version of our very first episode! Be sure to stay tuned until the end for a special postscript with Andrea as she gives a behind-the-scenes look at how this show began.

***

We meet accomplished novelist and loving mother Andrea Dunlop as she embarks on a journey to understand the series of events that tore her family apart. We learn that her older sister has been investigated twice for Munchausen by Proxy abuse, which inspired Andrea to learn everything she could about this complex and misunderstood issue. We see Andrea become captivated by the story of Hope Ybarra and go along with her to meet Hope’s father, sister, and brother: the first people Andrea has ever spoken to who’ve actually lived through a case. But can anything prepare Andrea for the truth?

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 

 Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

*** 

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In this bonus episode you’ll hear host Andrea Dunlop's full interview with Dr. Sally Smith’s son, Patrick. They discuss the impact of the slanted and sensationalized media coverage of Dr. Sally Smith’s work on him and his family. Patrick shares his pride in his mother's career as well as fears over the impact of the media coverage and the verdict in the Kowalski case.  

The full unbridged interview with Dr. Sally Smith will be available to subscribers.  

In the meantime, we are hard at work on season 4, stay tuned and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.  

***

Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munchausensupport.com  

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

*** 

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this bonus episode you’ll hear host Andrea Dunlop's full interview with Ethen Shapiro, lead attorney for John Hopkins All Childrens Hospital. Shapiro offers shocking insights into the trial and the media coverage of the Kowalski case, as well as what’s next for the defense team.  

We are hard at work on season 4, stay tuned and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.  

***

Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munchausensupport.com  

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

***

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this bonus episode you’ll hear host Andrea Dunlop's full interview with friend of the show Detective Mike Weber.  

Mike—who wrote the FBI guidelines on investigating medical child abuse—digs into the police report about Maya Kowalski and helps Andrea put it in context, revealing the serious and disturbing nature of the case.  

NOTE: We recorded this interview in September before the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens trial, so information revealed during the trial will not be reflected.  

***

More about Mike Weber: https://mikeweberconsulting.com/  

Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munchausensupport.com  

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

*** 

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the third and final installment of our exclusive interview with Dr. Sally Smith, she shares her side of what happened in the Maya Kowalski case, revealing how perilous Maya’s situation truly was when she originally arrived at Johns Hopkins All Childrens in October of 2016.  

Dr. Sally Smith also reveals, for the first time, the details of the multi-million-dollar settlement with the Kowalski family and shares the impact that this case could have on medical providers and abused children going forward.  

And finally Dr. Sally Smith disclosess her concerns and her hopes for Maya and Kyle Kowalski—the two children thrust into the national spotlight by their father’s lawsuit—and lastly, her reflections on the work she’s devoted her life to.  

***

Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munchausensupport.com  

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

*** 

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the second part of our exclusive interview with Dr. Sally Smith, we discuss how the media coverage of her reached a fever pitch and turned her life and career upside down. We explore how not only the Netflix film but a high-profile piece in New York Magazine rewrote the narrative of the Kowalski case and Dr. Smith’s involvement to cast her as a villain. 

We unpack the stories of the four other families in the Netflix film—featured as examples of “false allegations” made by Dr. Smith—and uncover the more complicated truth about what happened to the children involved. 

We hear from Dr. Smith about how the media has stoked outrage and real-life threats and harassment against her, her coworkers, and her family. 

We see the horrifying truth that what happened to Dr. Sally Smith could happen to any doctor in her position; looking at how the conspiracy theory of “medical kidnapping” is being constructed and affirmed by media on both sides of the political spectrum.  

 ***

Read Dyan Neary's New York Magazine piece here:

https://www.thecut.com/article/child-abuse-munchausen-syndrome-by-proxy.html

Watch the full video of John Stewart here:

https://www.tiktok.com/@blind_gossip/video/7295142757612588334?_r=1&_t=8gwrdSfC298 

Records of the four families covered in the film here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FpSFjvX_8WB5cgPCI0E_cpXj1jaeVcC4?usp=sharing

Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munchausensupport.com  

If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

* * *

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In an exclusive interview with Dr. Sally Smith, host Andrea Dunlop travels to Florida to speak to the embattled child abuse pediatrician about her life and work and the Maya Kowalski case that saw her cast as the villain of a Netflix film.  

We get an inside look into Dr. Smith’s groundbreaking career as one of America's first board-certified child abuse pediatricians. We learn what it was like to face some of the most difficult cases imaginable all while raising two children of her own. And we see how the toughness necessary for her work led her to be ruthlessly judged in the public eye.  

This must-listen first installment of our season finale sets the stage for explosive revelations about the Kowalski case, the four other “falsely accused” families in the Netflix film, and much more.  

***

Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munchausensupport.com  

Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

* * *

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this bonus episode, host Andrea interviews regular guest and friend of the show Jordyn Hope, a survivor of Munchausen by proxy abuse. Jo shares their personal story of revelations of abuse and recounts the emotional toll of constantly having to prove their own sickness. 

Andrea and Jo discuss the Maya Kowalski case and Jo provides insight into the parent-child dynamics, including the enmeshment, lack of boundaries, and parentification often seen in abusive situations. Andrea and Jo grapple with the complicated feelings around Maya's continued defense of her mother.  

Jo also opens up about how painful it is for survivors to hear their abuse erased and denied. They offer a message of validation and fight to other survivors struggling with self-doubt in the wake of this high-profile case. This is a thoughtful, nuanced discussion around the themes of voice, compassion, and the ripple effects of denying abuse. 

***

Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munchausensupport.com  

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266  

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

*** 

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week Andrea examines how the harrowing and complex story of the Maya Kowalski case turned into a pop culture moment, and spread dangerous misinformation in the process.  

We continue our conversation with Ethen Shapiro, lead attorney for Johns Hopkins All Childrens, about how the media coverage of this case got so out of hand and the risks it poses to doctors and children going forward.   

We take a deeper look at how entertainment reporter Caitlin Keating stumbled onto the story at her job at People Magazine, and despite her questionable grasp of medical child abuse issues, made a movie about a complicated case that was subsequently viewed by millions of people.  

Andrea shares revelations from Beata Kowalski's blog, written disturbingly in her young daughter Maya's voice, and wonders how anyone can ignore its terrifying contents.  

Stay tuned for a sneak peek of our exclusive interview featured in our season finale. 

***

Read Beata’s blog: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FpSFjvX_8WB5cgPCI0E_cpXj1jaeVcC4?usp=drive_link  

Megan Fox YouTube interview with Gregory Anderson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22eytc7v8oc&t=9693s  

Kat and Nat Unfiltered: https://catandnat.ca/new-blog/hhttps/openspotifycom/take-care-of-maya-with-caitlin-keating  

Guys We Fucked podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlbosK25e7U  

Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munchausensupport.com 

 ***

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Just when we thought the endless saga of Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens was over...it turns out it might only be beginning. 

In this episode, lead attorney for the Johns Hopkins All Childrens defense team, Ethen Shapiro, offers an insider's perspective on what happened in during the trial and what’s happened in the wake of it. 

Tina and Andrea discuss newly introduced evidence including Beata's requests to increase medications despite risks, Dr. Kirkpatrick's questionable diagnostic process, and communications illuminating Beata's substantial role in daughter Maya's care.  

Shapiro unpacks how harmful the verdict is for healthcare providers now unsure about reporting potential abuse and explains why the media coverage of this case and others like it is asymmetrical warfare. 

 We discuss the motion for a new trial based on juror misconduct, what happens next, and what it all means. 

***

Read Beata's emails and view Ethen Shapiro's slide deck laying out the case: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FpSFjvX_8WB5cgPCI0E_cpXj1jaeVcC4?usp=sharing

Watch Ethen Shapiro's closing arguments on Law & Crime's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HBYKAN3BxM

 Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munchausensupport.com 

 If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 

***

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

***

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With the jury's stunning $242 million verdict in favor of the Kowalski family, host Andrea Dunlop looks at why this case has struck such a nerve on both sides of the political spectrum. She examines why some mothers accused of medical child abuse are viewed as monsters and others as martyrs.  

Andrea looks at the charges against social worker Cathy Bedy the woman who became the face of the child welfare bureaucracy during the Maya Kowalski case and examines her testimony.  

We also seek out answers about the troubled state of child welfare in America by talking to Dr. Jessica Pryce, author of the forthcoming book Broken: Transforming Child Protective Services—Notes of a Former Caseworker. 

Dr. Pryce shares heart-wrenching stories of mothers whose lives have been turned upside down by investigations and sets out a compelling and urgent case for an overhaul of CPS. With her inside view of the system, she also gives insight on how doctors and other mandated reporters can do the best for the families they want to help even within the current, deeply flawed system.  

This episode grapples with the complexity around reporting child abuse suspicions and the potentially chilling ripple effects of the explosive verdict in Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens. It examines the lack of support for struggling parents in America, while leaving the listener with urgent questions about justice and equity. 

***

Pre-order Dr. Jessica Pryce’s book here:  https://www.amazon.com/Broken-Transforming-Protective-Services_Notes-Caseworker/dp/0063036193 

Learn more about Dr. Pryce’s work on her website: https://jessicaprycephd.com/  

Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munchausensupport.com  

 If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

***

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As we continue to process the far-reaching implications of the shocking verdict in the Kowalski case, we take a closer look at Maya Kowalski’s testimony and what we know about her. She’s emerged as a divisive figure in the case: alternately being cast as a brave heroine or as a manipulator. But given the evidence of her possible abuse and the questionable motives of the adults surrounding her, the truth is far more nuanced.   

We bring in survivor Jordyn Hope and child and adolescent psychiatrist Dr. Mary Sanders to help unpack the impact of trauma on memory and the aftereffects of medical child abuse. As Maya continues to be thrust into the spotlight for a role she didn’t choose, we grapple with the outcome of what it could all mean for her. 

*** 

Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munhausensupport.com  

If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

*** 

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

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Andrea checks in with lawyer and trial consultant Jonathan Leach hours after the Kowalski verdict comes down. They talk about the judge’s decision to disallow testimony from the defense on medical child abuse, what happened with this jury, and the chances for a possible appeal for JHAC.  

With the medical community reeling from this news, Jonathan and Andrea unpack the dire consequences of the verdict and wonder — what now?  

***

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

*** 

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Andrea and special guest Bex (aka our Florida pediatrcian friend) process the shocking verdict in the Maya Kowalski trial. After 9 weeks of testimony, the jury awarded the Kowalski family nearly $300 million in damages from Johns Hopkins All Children's Hospital.

Bex shares her perspective as a pediatrician on how this verdict will impact the medical community and reporting of suspected child abuse cases. They discuss the implications for social workers and hospital staff who stood up and testified, and grapple with how the jury seemed to side with the emotional storytelling despite medical evidence.

Andrea and Bex reflect on what this means for the U.S. justice system, mandatory reporting laws, and the public's willingness to accept that medical child abuse exists. 

***

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea’s books here.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised.

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here.

***

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Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With a verdict in the case days away, host Andrea Dunlop unpacks some of what’s happened so far in the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens trial with lawyer and trial consultant Jonathan Leach. They analyze the dueling opening statements, consider what each side is likely to look for in jurors, and which of the charges—if any—might be most viable.  

Andrea shares insights on the lawyers after watching their interactions in court. She also weighs in on the extensive medical testimony so far, including a major revelation about the origins of Maya's controversial CRPS diagnosis. We also share a chilling account of Maya’s ketamine coma that was shared in court via missives written by Beata herself.  

As both sides begin their closing arguments Andrea weighs the merits of what each side has told the jury and considers what the ramifications of the imminent verdict might be. 

***

To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial.  

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

*** 

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens trial barrels forward, new information comes to light each day about what really happened to Maya Kowalski during her time in the hospital. In part 2 of The Believers, Andrea digs into the testimony from the doctors at the center of the case and finds medical professionals at odds. Did Maya really have CRPS or was something else going on? With trial watchers choosing sides and digging in: what does the evidence actually tell us? 

Andrea also talks more about her conversation with Laura Richards and her co-host Jim Clemente, following up on some of the leads they presented. 

NOTE: It came up in court on 11/1 in the rebuttal that Dr. Chopra did NOT attend Harvard Medical School, but rather an institution in India affiliated with HMS. He also clarified that he is a clinical assistant professor at Brown rather than a full professor. 

***

Read about Dr. Chopra’s beliefs about medical child abuse here: https://painri.com/epidemic-child-abuse-doctors-harming-children/ 

Crime Analyst: https://www.crime-analyst.com/  

Real Crime Profile: https://www.realcrimeprofile.com/  

Law & Crime Networks coverage of Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens:   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZTZxCMy8Oc  

To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial.  

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

*** 

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In today’s episode, Andrea seeks an outside perspective on the controversial Maya Kowalski case. Laura Richards, host of Crime Analyst and cohost of the Real Crime Profile podcast, joins Andrea to talk through the complexities and contradictions of the Netflix documentary. The conversation reveals just how polarized interpretations of this case have become. With the verdict in the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens looming, today we look at what’s been revealed by the both the vast amount of documentation on this case, as well as the trial unfolding before our eyes.  

***

Megan Phelps-Roper TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/megan_phelps_roper_i_grew_up_in_the_westboro_baptist_church_here_s_why_i_left?language=en 

The Witch Trials of JK Rowling: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-witch-trials-of-j-k-rowling/id1671691064 

Crime Analyst: https://www.crime-analyst.com/  

Real Crime Profile: https://www.realcrimeprofile.com/  

Law & Crime Networks coverage of Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens:   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZTZxCMy8Oc  

To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial.  

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

*** 

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Host Andrea Dunlop and lead producer Tina Nole dive into listener feedback from season 2 of Nobody Should Believe Me. Addressing questions of gender issues and potential sexism around medical child abuse accusations, Andrea’s guest appearance on Real Crime Profile, pro-cop allegations and more. Plus, Andrea and Tina fill listeners in on what to expect for season 3 and beyond.  

***

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Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised.  

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

*** 

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In the flattened version of the Maya Kowalski story that has dominated the headlines, Beata Kowalski is a mother who fell prey to age-old biases against women. This story attaches itself to the well-documented reality that women are all too often not believed when it comes to their own pain, the stories of their own lives, and their professional opinions. Beata is cast as the martyr in Netflix’s “Take Care of Maya” and two other women, Cathy Beady and Dr. Sally Smith, are cast as the villains. Today, we unpack the messy gender dynamics of this case.  

Cathy Beady is the social worker with a troubling past who’s been accused of grooming and assaulting Maya Kowalski. What do we know about what happened during Maya’s stay at Johns Hopkins All Childrens? Was Cathy Beady really hellbent on keeping Maya and Beata apart? 

Media coverage of the Maya Kowalski story has also done irreparable harm to the life and career of the respected doctor at the center of the controversy: child abuse pediatrician Sally Smith. She’s been accused of violating HIPPA in a single-minded crusade to create a case against Beata Kowalski. But is there evidence that Dr. Smith did anything other than her job? Did she drive Beata to death as the film suggests or is it possible her interventions saved Maya Kowalski’s life? 

As we break down the narratives and misinformation surrounding this case we get to the heart of the matter. The Kowalski legal team’s claims that Munchausen by proxy is based on “junk science” and that Beata Kowalski wasn’t guilty of medical child abuse because this form of abuse isn’t even real.  

***

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Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

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For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com  

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*** 

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Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse and suicide. Listener discretion is advised. 

Beata Kowalski’s tragic death by suicide in January of 2016 is at the center of the $220 million lawsuit Jack Kowalski has filed against Johns Hopkins All Childrens hospital. But did Beata really take her own life to free her daughter from the hospital keeping her captive as the plaintiff claims? As with everything in this story, the truth is much more complicated. The narrative told in the Netflix film “Take Care of Maya” is far from a complete picture of the harrowing series of events that led to Beata’s death.   

In this episode we go through the police reports of the incident and various testimonies of those who were present to fill in the gaps of the days and hours leading up to Beata’s death. We also examine the final court hearing Beata attended, which gives us a glimpse into where the case stood at the time of her death.  

 ***

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Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

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For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

*** 

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In our third episode, we look at a central piece of the story that was left unfinished at the time of Beata Kowalski’s death: the police investigation into her for medical child abuse. 

Along with Detective Mike Weber and our anonymous Florida pediatrician friend, we unpack shocking new details from the police investigation and from Jack Kowalski’s interview the Detective Stephanie Graham. Was Jack really just being pressured to throw his wife under the bus? Or did he have suspicions of his own about her?

We also unpack some of the many discrepancies in Maya's medical history and the troubling behaviors of her mother Beata, showing that that this pattern of deceptive behavior went way beyond the question of whether her daughter’s diagnosis of CRPS was correct or not

As the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Children’s trial unfolds in real time, we examine the facts of the case as they stood when Beata died and show how the prevailing media narrative about this case is getting it all wrong. 

***

To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial. 

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

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***

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As the Maya Kowalski case heads to trial, we dig into the massive trove of documents about this case and begin to unpack what we know about what really happened during Maya Kowalski’s fateful stay at Johns Hopkins All Childrens in October 2016.  

The Netflix documentary about the case—and the prevailing media narrative---would have you believe that Maya was ripped from her parents by a corrupt system, and that this could happen to any parent of a sick child. But did Maya really have a deadly disease for which she required the massive amounts of ketamine and other drugs she was being given? Was the hospital unfairly biased against Beata Kowalski because she was difficult, or was something more sinister at play?  

We talk to national law enforcement expert on medical child abuse, Detective Mike Weber, as well as a Florida pediatrician who helps us unravel some of the myriad strange details about Maya’s medical history.  

The beginning of our multi-part deep dive into the case reveals the shocking events that led up to the family separation. 

***

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To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free.  

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

*** 

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Warning: This content includes references to suicide and child abuse. If you or someone you know is having thoughts of suicide, help is available. Call or text 988 to speak with a trained crisis counselor 24/7. You can also visit 988lifeline.org for additional resources and support.

As the Jack Kowalski v. Johns Hopkins All Childrens trial gets underway today in Sarasota, FL, we revisit our conversation with top experts Bea Yorker, Dr. Mary Sanders, Detective Mike Weber, and survivor Jordyn Hope about “Take Care of Maya” the Netflix documentary about the Maya Kowalski case. Today we introduce our third season of Nobody Should Believe Me, where we will delve into the complex notion of “false accusations” of medical child abuse, getting into everything we’ve uncovered about the Maya Kowalski case and the broader conversations happening around the nation. Is there really an epidemic of over-diagnosis of medical child abuse, or are offenders slipping through the cracks? 

Andrea is a finalist for the Signal Awards! Best Host - Documentary Category: PLEASE VOTE HERE: https://vote.signalaward.com/PublicVoting#/2023/shows/craft/best-host-documentary

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free.  

* * *

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Today we’re sharing a special bonus episode from the Jordan Harbinger Show. Check out all things Jordan, including his helpful episode starter packs, on his website. We think NSBM listeners will be especially fascinated by his episodes on con artists and abnormal psychology. 

Our new season “Making Sense of Maya” drops NEXT WEEK! 

Andrea and Jordan discuss: 

·        Munchausen syndrome by proxy (aka factitious disorder imposed on another): a form of medical child abuse where parents or caregivers fake or exaggerate their child’s health problems for personal gain.

·        How the widespread availability of medical information online, social media platforms, and crowdfunding has broadened the spectrum of people engaging in medical child abuse beyond professionals in the healthcare field.

·        What the long-term psychological toll looks like for children who survive such abuse and how they struggle to discern the truth as they grow older.

·        Why prosecution of medical child abuse cases is difficult when family courts may not thoroughly examine medical records and even accept a guilty parent or caregiver’s word as fact.

·        How we can keep an eye out for signs of medical child abuse, and who we should contact if we suspect the worst.

·        And much more…

***

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To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. 

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here.

***

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In today's bonus episode, Andrea talks to family law attorney Leah McGowan about family and juvenile court and all of the many complications within those systems that create barriers for helping victims of medical child abuse. 

***

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

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To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. 

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here.

***

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In Andrea’s full conversation with law professor and nurse Bea Yorker, they discuss the complexities of medical child abuse, their work with survivors, and debunk some of the most common misconceptions about Munchausen by proxy/ medical child abuse.

***

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

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To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. 

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here.

***

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In Andrea’s full conversation with renowned child abuse pediatrician, Dr. Carole Jenny they discuss Dr. Jenny’s fascinating history in the field, the intricacies of medical child abuse cases, and Dr. Jenny’s testimony and report in the state’s case against Andrea’s sister, Megan.  

***

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

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To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free.  

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

*** 

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In the finale of Season 2, we finally hear from the person at the center of our story: Alyssa Waybourn. Despite the immense challenges she has faced, Alyssa shines as a beacon of intelligence, strength, and resilience. Her story is a testament to the capacity of the human spirit to overcome even the darkest of circumstances. During a visit to Fort Worth, we meet Alyssa: a smart, happy, athletic teenager who is starting her new after-school job later that day. Alyssa has found solace and normalcy after enduring so much at such a young age. Her determination to move forward and create a brighter future is truly inspiring.

Alyssa shares her memories of the abuse she endured, the experience of testifying against her biological mother, and the profound impact it had on her life. Despite the pain, she remains steadfast in her commitment to fight for those who are voiceless, even testifying before the Texas State Legislature in support of a bill that bears her name. 

Alyssa opens up about her hopes and dreams for the future, revealing the strength and resilience she has found in her family. We also get an update on Brittany as Andrea shares some final thoughts for the season. 

***

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

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To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. 

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Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here.

***

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In this gripping episode, we delve into the heart-wrenching account of Jordyn Hope, another survivor of medical child abuse. Taking a brief departure from Alyssa's story, we shine a spotlight on a far more common outcome for MBP survivors in which they are never successfully protected from their abuser.  

From a young age, Jordyn was led to believe they were a chronically ill child by their mother. Life-threatening asthma, organ removal attempts, and countless hospital visits became their horrific norm.  

But everything changed in 2018 when Jordyn stumbled upon the concept of Munchausen by Proxy during a community college class. Suddenly, the veil of deception was lifted, and the true extent of their mother's abusive behavior came into sharp focus. 

As we explore Jordyn's journey, we uncover the painful aftermath of confronting their mother's manipulation and the ongoing trauma they continue to navigate. Jordyn illuminates how the deep bond between victims and their parents often shapes their very perception of reality, leading to a harrowing and profoundly destabilizing road to recovery.  

Tragically, Jordyn's story exemplifies the most likely outcome of a medical child abuse case: one in which a perpetrator is never brought to justice despite the concerns and reports of numerous family members and medical professionals.  

Jordyn shines a light on the terrifying reality of Munchausen by Proxy and shows us a way forward for survivors both in their lived example and their own work to help others.  

*** 

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free.  

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. 

*** 

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Psychologists Off the Clock Podcast Interview

Munchausen by Proxy with Andrea Dunlop and Marc Feldman

Psychologists Off the Clock is a psychology podcast hosted by three clinical psychologists. POTC recently featured Andrea Dunlop and Dr. Marc Feldman in an interview with Dr. Debbie Sorensen about Munchausen by Proxy. 

Through personal experiences, real-life cases, and scientific research, Andrea and Dr. Feldman offer listeners their expertise on the topic of Munchausen by proxy. They define terms like factitious disorder and Munchausen, and explore the complex psychology behind this perplexing behavior pattern. They consider warning signs, whether rehabilitation is ever possible, and how we all (family, friends, teachers, medical professionals, and more) can help to protect children from medical child abuse.

To learn more about Psychologists Off the Clock, visit their website at www.offtheclockpsych.com, and check out some of their other interviews. 

You can also follow Psychologists Off the Clock on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/offtheclockpsych 

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We return to Alyssa's story - In the aftermath of Brittany Philips' conviction, Alyssa faces a daunting new reality: the path to recovery. The long-term physical and psychological effects of Munchausen by Proxy abuse cast a long shadow for survivors, and bringing Brittany to justice is just the beginning of the healing process. 

In this episode, we delve into Alyssa's journey and witness her remarkable growth as she embraces her new life. Bravely refusing to let her past define her, Alyssa emerges as an inspiring overcomer, as aptly described by her adopted mother, Laura Waybourn. As a family, the Waybourns navigate the challenges with unwavering determination and resilience.

***

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea’s books here. 

To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. 

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here.

***

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In the wake of obtaining shocking public records about her sister’s case, host Andrea Dunlop decides to divulge the details of the second investigation into her sister, Megan Carter. Seated alongside Detective Mike Webber, Andrea delves into the extensive documentation, and together the two unpack the devastating information about what reportedly happened to her niece. Despite video evidence, a successful separation test, and expert testimony from one of the most well-respected experts in the country, the juvenile court judge who reviewed the case returned custody of Megan’s two children. Andrea remains deeply concerned that her niece and nephew are victims of a flawed system incapable of addressing the horrifying reality of medical child abuse and makes public the evidence against her sister as a last resort to protect them. 

During their discussion, Andrea and Mike also examine an irresponsible and misleading article about Megan’s case published by NBC in collaboration with King 5, a local Seattle news outlet. In what has become a distressing pattern in media coverage of medical child abuse cases, this article attacks the doctor who reported the abuse and neglects to mention the evidence that made her do so. 

Meanwhile the judge’s order that returned custody of the two children—and on which the media’s reporting appears to have relied—contains shocking mistakes and untruths. Andrea talks to someone close to the case to set the record straight.

The reporting in this episode is based on information in the public record. We have collected the relevant documents at the link below: 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1AGfJiX-nZ39knECXhafzZ_TOItMmjXoD?usp=drive_link

***

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Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free.  

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here.

***

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 Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised.

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Despite the undeniable evidence against Brittany, the verdict takes a shocking turn. Dawn Ferguson, the prosecutor on the case elucidates the challenges of convincing a jury that a mother could engage in such abuse against her own child. After six months of review and preparation, the legal team enters the courtroom armed with reams of eyewitness accounts and, most damningly, Brittany’s grisly search history. 

Detective Mike Webber walks us through the complications of the trial and unpacks why the judicial system is not equipped to handle this form of abuse. Throughout the trial, the Waybourns strive to protect Alyssa but ultimately, the now seven-year-old girl has to take the stand to testify against her mother. 

***

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

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To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. 

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here.

***

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We gather top experts Bea Yorker, Dr. Mary Sanders, Detective Mike Weber, and MBP survivor Jordyn Hope to discuss the Netflix documentary “Take Care of Maya” and the complicated case it covers. 

***

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To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. 

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The full APSAC guidelines for professionals can be accessed here. 

***

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The Waybourns face the daunting task of safeguarding Alyssa against Brittany's relentless attempts to pull her back into her web. We hear more about Alyssa’s turbulent journey to become a Waybourn, as the family fights through a system that doesn’t know how to deal with medical child abuse.  

Beatrice Yorker, a child and adolescent psychiatric nurse, law professor and MBP expert, reveals the disturbing extent to which this crime is overlooked in our society. We also speak to a family law attorney who helps illuminate the complexities of these cases. 

***

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

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To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. 

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Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here.

***

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***

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In this season of Nobody Should Believe Me, we've heard from Sheriff Bill and Laura Waybourn about their concern for Alyssa- who was a distant family member of theirs. Now, we take some time to get to know this incredible couple who’ve changed the lives of so many children.  

Laura, a former CPS worker and devoted mama bear and Bill a seasoned law enforcement veteran with a heart of gold, have opened their hearts and home to numerous children in need: eventually adopting nine kids. These tireless advocates for children will go on to spearhead the efforts to make all children in Texas safe from medical child abuse. 

***

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised.

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

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To support the show, listen on Apple Plus or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. 

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

***

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***

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***

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Detective Mike Weber dives into the digital rabbit hole of Brittany’s online activity and makes a discovery so shocking it turns his investigation on its head and reveals the depths of depravity offenders are capable of.

Meanwhile, the fight to protect Alyssa ramps up and we meet Sheriff Bill Waybourn—a towering Texan lawman with a huge heart and an iconic mustache. He and his wife Laura will become a beacon of hope in Alyssa’s life as she changes the course of their family forever. 

***

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To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

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Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here.

***

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***

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Heather Harris was one of many friends who was concerned about Brittany’s desperate need for attention for her daughter’s medical issues, and her inconsistent reports about Alyssa’s eating issues. In this episode we peel back the inner workings of Child Protective Services in the state of Texas, and uncover a deeply flawed system that despite many social workers’ best effort, leaves victims of medical child abuse in harm’s way.

After a shocking incident pushed Heather to report Brittany to CPS, she was dismayed when no one intervened. Little did she know her report was one of many made to the agency. 

***

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To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

***

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***

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***

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Everyone in Brittany Philips’ life was worried about her daughter, Alyssa. Brittany was always talking about her child’s health issues, and complaining that she couldn’t keep food down—but it didn’t add up with what people were seeing. Still, no one quite knew how to intervene. It didn’t help that Brittany was a bulldozer, bullying anyone who disagreed with her and always causing maximum drama.   

Season 2 delves deep into a chilling case that exposes the shocking realities of Munchausen by Proxy and how it can show up. Unlike the charismatic manipulator in Season 1, Hope Ybarra, Brittany didn't need charm; she used force to get what she wanted. She wasn’t fooling anyone, but it still felt like no one could stop her.  

***

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To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here.

***

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***

Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

***

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In Season 2, we head back to Tarrant County, Texas to explore the case of Brittany Phillips, a mother who medically abused her child in plain sight. For years, Brittany lied about her daughter Alyssa’s medical history and symptoms and subjected her to unnecessary medical procedures. Family members, healthcare providers, and even Child Protective Services knew something was wrong, but no one could figure out how to stop her.  

Detective Mike Weber, the lead investigator who helped put Hope Ybarra behind bars, is on the case once again; and we hear from more top experts in the field, family members, and survivors to help us understand the complexities of this abuse.  

Andrea will also reveal much more about her own family situation, unpacking the case against her sister that she touched on in Season 1.  

To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

***

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Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. 

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In this bonus episode my producer Tina Nole from Larj Media and I respond to some of the questions that came up about Season 1, break down a few myths about Munchausen Syndrom By Proxy (Medical Child Abuse) and we’ll preview what’s coming up June 15th when we release Season 2 of the show.

To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

***

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Listen to Andrea’s full conversation with Dr. Mary Sanders, director of child & adolescent psychology at Stanford and nationally recognized expert on Munchausen by Proxy. We discuss the possibilities of treatment for perpetrators as well as the effect this abuse has on victims and how they can heal.

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children: https://www.apsac.org/

Munchausen Support: munchausensupport.com

***

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

***

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Listen to Andrea’s full conversation with Dr. Jayme Coffman, the child abuse pediatrician who runs the CARE team at Cook Children’s Hospital in Tarrant County where much of our stories takes place. She shares with us the behind-the-scenes process of determining abuse, what it’s like for doctors to get caught up in one of these cases, and why this abuse is so misunderstood. 

Cook Children’s: https://www.cookchildrens.org/  

Munchausen Support: munchausensupport.com

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

***

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In today's bonus episode, we share Andrea's unabridged conversation with Dr. Marc Feldman, one of the experts we heard from throughout season one of the show. Dr. Marc Feldman is a Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Alabama,Tuscaloosa and an internationally renowned expert on Munchausen by Proxy.

He is the author of five books, more than one hundred peer-reviewed articles, and has appeared as an expert in dozens of television programs, print media, and documentaries throughout the world. Dr. Feldman is a longtime member of the APSAC’s MBP committee and originally nominated Andrea as a member. 

More about Dr. Feldman: 

https://www.munchausen.com/ 

Munchausen by Proxy is a serious and widely-misunderstood form of child abuse. It can result in a wide swath of destruction and trauma for everyone involved and lifelong devastation for survivors.

Munchausen Support was created in collaboration with some of the world’s top experts and provides science- and fact-based information about Munchausen by Proxy.

It is also intended to offer resources and support for professionals in the midst of a case, family members in crisis, and survivors seeking treatment.

https://www.munchausensupport.com

***

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Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

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Andrea and her Producer Tina at Larj Media talk about how the show came to be, the journey towards finding and talking with Hope Ybarra and what you can look forward to for season 2 of the show.

***

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To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. 

***

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Andrea has made an intense connection with Hope Ybarra's family, and asked experts, doctors, and the detective so many of her burning questions about Munchausen by Proxy. But she's become increasingly fixated on talking to Hope herself as she comes to realize that it may be her only chance to get the insights she needs. In this stunning season one finale, Andrea travels to Mountain Home, Idaho, to meet with Hope Ybarra.

In this intense, emotional back-and-forth, we hear straight from Hope what life is like for her after being released from prison. We find out what she's up to and what she hopes for from the future. Hope listens to her own family—all of whom she's estranged from with the exception of Robin—talk about what she was like before everything fell apart. She insists that she still loves her children, despite what she did. We see the human being behind the monstrous acts that splashed Hope's story across headlines and landed her in prison for a decade. 

Andrea asks Hope what might have been done to help her and what she might say to her younger self if she could go back. Finally, she tells Hope that if she really wants her family back, she should get treatment and offers to help her if she wants that. 

Hope is friendly and warm in person, but Andrea is left with the unsettling truth that she hasn't changed. 

* * *

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos:  @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. 

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

***

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The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

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Andrea delves deep into her questions around the psychopathology of Munchausen by Proxy perpetrators. Floored by the similarities in the many cases she’s researched, she talks to two of the world's foremost experts on the disorder—Dr. Marc Feldman and Dr. Mary Sanders—about the characteristics, warning signs, and causes of the disorder that has upended the lives of so many people Andrea has spoken to throughout the course of the podcast. Why would a mother ever do this? What do they get from it? And most importantly, what could be done to stop them? Is it possible for someone who does these things to get treatment?

* * *

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

***

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For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com  

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

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As Andrea contemplates what the future looks like for survivors of Munchausen by Proxy, she gets an unexpected message from two young women who’ve lived it. After appearing with Marc Feldman on a podcast, Andrea hears from twin-sisters who survived MBP.

Liz and Erica Handt were taken from one terrifying situation to another when the foster mom who adopted them turns out to be abusive, telling the girls they had Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and dragging them from specialist to specialist. The twins' story is harrowing but ultimately hopeful as they're now thriving.

* * *

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. 

For more about the Handt twins: https://lotusesinbloom.com/ 

Erica’s Instagram: Erica Blake (Handt) (@erica_a_blake) • Instagram photos and videos 

Liz’s Instagram: Liz | Mental Health + Healing (@lizhandt) • Instagram photos and videos 

***

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Right before his story was released in episode five of NOBODY SHOULD BELIEVE ME, the father we referred to as “John” changed his mind about wanting to share his story anonymously after he learned a terrifying piece of news about his son. Now, Doug Welch shares the events that led up to his decision, where things stand in his family now, and what he wants his kids to know.

Coverage of the case against Mary Welch 

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/investigations/mother-at-center-of-investigation-is-indicted/89-105671356

Detective Mike Weber’s arrest warrant for Mary Welch

https://bit.ly/ArrestWarrent

***

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

***

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As we learn from Detective Mike Weber, the father in a Munchausen by Proxy case can be the most important ally--or the biggest obstacle--in protecting child victims from abuse. In part two of Andrea’s examination of the father’s role in MBP cases, Andrea speaks to “John”, a father devastated but the revelation that his ex-wife had subjected their son to unnecessary brain surgery. We also talk to Ryan Crawford, a man who found himself fighting for his son’s life against a disbelieving system.

Plus we get a stunning real-time update on one of our cases as “John” decides to come forward with his true identity.  

***

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. 

More about Ryan Crawford’s story: https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2019/august/the-boy-who-stayed-sick/ 

https://mikeweberconsulting.com/ 

***

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As we learn from Detective Mike Weber, the father in a Munchausen by Proxy case can be the most important ally--or the biggest obstacle--in protecting child victims from abuse. We learn more about how Andrea’s own family became divided during the first investigation into her sister and we meet George Hunnicut, a veteran who discovered his young wife was abusing their infant son and found himself up against a system that had no idea what to do for him.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

For more about Mike Weber, visit https://mikeweberconsulting.com/

More about George Hunnicut’s story:

https://media.star-telegram.com/Munchausenmoms/

More about Ryan Crawford’s story: https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2019/august/the-boy-who-stayed-sick/

***

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Andrea speaks to Deanna Boyd, the crime reporter who broke the Hope Ybarra case and discovers that Hope's was one of many Munchausen By Proxy cases in Tarrant County that Deanna unearthed; all of which had flown under the radar. What's going on here? Why are there so many cases in this one area?

As Andrea interviews Deanna and meets with Detective Mike Weber, as well as Dr. Jayme Coffman and Dr. Karen Shultz--two doctors involved with the Ybarra and many other MBP cases--she makes a chilling discovery. It's not that there are so many cases in Tarrant County, it's just that they're catching them. If the systems meant to protect children were functioning, every county would look like Tarrant.

Andrea can only guess as to what truly went on behind the scenes in her own family's case, but she begins to grasp what the systems involved--CPS, the police, the doctors--are up against and why so many cases are destined to fail. Meanwhile, Andrea continues her maddening back-and-forth with Hope.

***

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

For more about Mike Weber, visit https://mikeweberconsulting.com/

Read Deanna Boyd’s original reporting: https://media.star-telegram.com/Munchausenmoms/

***

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We delve deeper into the story of Hope Ybarra, a young mother whose family discovers she’s been faking her eight-year-long battle with terminal cancer and begins to suspect her own health isn’t all she’s lying about. We talk more to Hope’s family and her ex-husband Fabian Ybarra about their efforts to unravel Hope’s many sinister deceptions. 

We meet Detective Mike Weber, who was responsible for investigating Hope Ybarra, an early foray into what would become the main focus of his career: Munchausen by Proxy.

* * *

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.  

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  

To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com 

* * *

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  

To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com 

***

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We meet accomplished novelist and loving mother Andrea Dunlop as she embarks on a journey to understand the series of events that tore her family apart. We learn that her older sister has been investigated twice for Munchausen by Proxy abuse, which inspired Andrea to learn everything she could about this complex and misunderstood issue. We see Andrea become captivated by the story of Hope Ybarra and go along with her to meet Hope’s father, sister, and brother: the first people Andrea has ever spoken to who’ve actually lived through a case. But can anything prepare Andrea for the truth?

* * *

Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop 

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com 

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  

To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com 

***

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Novelist Andrea Dunlop is looking for answers. When her older sister was first investigated for Munchausen by Proxy abuse more than a decade ago, it tore her family apart. This catastrophic series of events sent Dunlop on a journey to understand this most taboo form of abuse. In this groundbreaking podcast, she talks to some of the top experts in the world to explore the criminology and psychopathology behind Munchausen by Proxy and to reveal the wide swath of destruction these perpetrators leave in their wake. 

Along the way, she becomes captivated by the case of Hope Ybarra: Dunlop speaks to those most familiar with the case, from the reporter who broke the story, to the detective who investigated it, to the family who lived through it. In the dramatic finale, she’ll speak to Hope Ybarra herself.​ 

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