On the Way Podcast

Understanding human desire, the way it is caught and the way it can lead us to scapegoating and violence is foundational to understanding what it is to be human. Drawing on the work of René Girard, James Alison joins the podcast once again to explore the essential goodness of desire while reinterpreting the doctrine of original sin in ways that help us understand our human condition with gentleness instead of shame and condemnation. This conversation explores how contempt thrives where we are manipulated by feelings of shame and remain unconsciously trapped in rivalry. James points us to the hope found in facing the truth about ourselves, the power of forgiveness and the possibilities for genuine togetherness found when we are prepared to die to cheap ways of belonging that there may be peace.

James Alison is a Catholic theologian, priest and author. His principal claim to fame is as one of those who has done most to bring the work of the great French thinker René Girard to a wider public. In addition, he is known for his firm but patient insistence on truthfulness in matters gay as an ordinary part of basic Christianity, and for his pastoral outreach in the same sphere. https://jamesalison.com/

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The Uluru Statement from the Heart urges Australia to come to terms with its history. This year the slogan, “History is calling” reminds us that the past is never the past- particularly when it has been forgotten or wilfully misunderstood or ignored. How might we better know our own story and so mature as a nation? Professor Henry Reynolds joins the podcast to share how so many of our legal and historical assumptions about the way Australia was settled are groundless. The conversation travels into the realm of International European Law at the time and the many voices who spoke out against the annexation of the continent and the violence of the Frontier Wars.

Henry Reynolds, author of the recent book, “Truth-telling: History, Sovereignty and the Uluru Statement,” is considered one of the nation’s leading authorities of the history of Australia’s Indigenous people. His many books have enriched our understanding of our past and point the way towards a more hopeful, and truthful, future.

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How does an Indigenous person express spirituality grounded in country in the wake of colonisation and the continued colonial nature of our institutions and systems? Dr Garry Worete Deverell, a Trawloolway man from northern Tasmania, joins the podcast to explore country and kin as the building blocks of life and spirituality and the web of past, present and future which is expressed as 'the dreaming'. Paying attention may be the first step in practising a faith that is at home in this land even as we long for the reconciliation which begins in listening to the truth of Australia's violent colonising history. How might we attend to Indigenous voices so that Christian faith and spirituality becomes grounded in caring for country and one another as we cultivate together an imagination for a transformed future?

Dr Garry Deverell is a Trawloolway man, connected to the north east of Tasmania. He is the Academic Dean of the School of Indigenous Studies at the University of Divinity in Melbourne, and the author of Gondwana theology: A Trawloolway man reflects on Christian faith.

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There have been many conversations about the interface between science and theology and the rich understandings that can result. There have been few explorations, however, of the way science can inform and lend insight to our understanding of the public worship experience. Dr Kenneth Miles, specialist in radiology and nuclear medicine, joins the podcast to help us see how individual acts of worship and the practices around our gathering can be understood through the lens of neuroscience and psychology. This conversation considers the way experience leads to encounter and ritual and symbol offer a doorway beyond ourselves, while remaining profoundly embodied. 

Ken is author of the new book, From Billiard Balls to Bishops: A Scientist's Introduction to Christian Worship.

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It is said that stories make us what we are. If that is true, then perhaps creating stories about ourselves may help us to see more clearly who we are and who we want to become. Fictional author of the Lindchester Chronicles, Catherine Fox (Wilcox) joins the podcast to talk about the power of story and the way characters can become real and help us embrace even the messiness of our lives with empathy and compassion. These are stories that make us laugh and cry, but, beyond that, offer the possibility for making peace as we see perspectives different from our own, and perhaps foreshadows the possibility of grace. The narrator of these tales from Lindford says it better than anyone;

“Escapist Anglican nonsense? Perhaps, but like travellers on a train who see the sun bouncing off puddles and distant windscreens, readers may get a glancing reflection of some bright truth from the lies fiction tells.”

The Lindchester Chronicles are often described as a twenty-first century answer to Trollope’s Barchester, and are written in real time, sharing contemporary events through the lens of the characters who live and work in the Diocese of Lindchester.

Catherine Fox is an established and popular author. She has a degree in literature and a PhD in Theology and lectures at Manchester Metropolitan University.

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Being aware of the water in which we swim is not always easy. Dr Peter Kline joins the conversation to help us to see more clearly the culture in which we are immersed that we may understand the way it has constrained our desire, providing the delusion of freedom. More than that, the promises of a neo-capitalist society ultimately can never be fulfilled as we attach our deepest longings to narratives that actually prevent us from attaining what we most deeply desire. Has hyper-individualism and pressure to perform and enjoy our lives robbed us of one another and trained us to buy into the wrong dreams? 

Dr Peter Kline is the Academic Dean and Associate Professor of Theology at St Francis College, Milton. He has a Master of Divinity from Princeton Theological Seminary and a PhD in Theological Studies from Vanderbilt University, with a special interest in negative theology.

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Pádraig ÓTuama joins On the Way in St John's Cathedral for a live recording of this conversation which explores the power of language to build up or destroy, open us to curiosity or shut down understanding, to wield shame or honour the beauty of human dignity and this embodied life. Pádraig tells some of his story and reads a number of his poems that reveal the power of poetry to tell the truth about our life and humanity.

Poet and theologian, Pádraig Ó Tuama’s work centres around themes of language, power, conflict and religion. He presents Poetry Unbound with On Being Studios, a podcast that has gained over 10 million downloads since its start in 2020 — and also the author of Poetry Unbound; 50 Poems to Open Your Life.   From 2014-2019 he was the leader of the Corrymeela Community, Ireland’s oldest peace and reconciliation community. With undergraduate and postgraduate degrees in theology, multiple professional qualifications in conflict mediation (specialising in groups), he also holds a PhD (Poetry & Theology) from the University of Glasgow.

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Human beings are a symbol-making, ritual creating, story-telling creatures, but how do you put words to mystery? Steven Shakespeare joins Dom, Peter and Sue to explore the art of creating liturgy and language around God and our experience of the sacred. While language is so often inadequate, it is also full of wonder and richness that conjures meaning and opens us to new connection and creation. Liturgy structures our movement through sacred space and allows us to be participants, not consumers, held in safety as we travel together touching that which is at the heart of human longing.

Steven Shakespeare is a philosopher, writer and priest whose central concern through his work is to “sense how the divine is embodied and expressed in Christ, in creation, and in all the different bodies that make up the community of creatures.” Along with his other publications, Steven is known as a writer of liturgy and prayer through works such as “Prayers for an Inclusive Church” and “The Earth Cries Glory: Daily Prayer with Creation”. He has recently published a collection of ‘prayer poems’ for the Christian Year “Come Holy Gift.”

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Coming out once is challenging, but Jayne Ozanne describes coming out three times: first as gay, then coming out as Christian to her LGBTIQ+ friends, and finally as evangelical to her Christian LGBTIQ+ friends. In this boundary crossing, Jayne has listened to many stories and engaged in dialogue with faith leaders all over the world, from the Pope to the Archbishop of Canterbury. Through her advocacy, Jayne has steadily cast a more hopeful vision for the church, helping religious groups across the globe develop and promote a positive ethic towards lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex people. On her Australian Tour for World Pride, Jayne joins the Dom, Peter and Sue to share her story, explore the difficult territory of division in the church and the hope that can be found in the God who always brings new life to birth, often in surprising ways.

Jayne Ozanne is a prominent gay evangelical who works to ensure full inclusion of all LGBTQ+ people, particularly LGBTQ+ people of faith. She is Director of the Ozanne Foundation, which works with religious organisations to eliminate discrimination based on sexuality or gender identity.

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How did our modern Easter come to look like it does today? Author, anthropologist, and spiritual director Alexander John Shaia returns to the podcast to explore the origins of our current understanding of Easter, as well as the call to deeper union, fellowship, and love that was at its heart. Recorded in-person with Dom in Alexander John's current home town of Muxia on the northwest coast of Spain, this episode is for all of us approaching another Easter wondering how to move beyond that which divides us and discover a more abundant sense of communal life.

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The way we narrate our past shapes our present and our future, but sometimes our memories are reduced by the generality of the stories we tell- stories shaped by our fears and our wounds and not faithful to the embodied particularity of our lived experience. Too often our spirituality has been dismissive of the body and our religion has conformed to dominant narratives of power that whitewash pain and injustice, leading away from life and freedom. We experience and remember the particularity of both pain and joy in our bodies, however, making a spirituality at home in the body vital if we are to recall the sacred dignity of our humanity and open ourselves to the Spirit’s slow work of healing and liberation. Cole Arthur Riley, creator of Black Liturgies and author of This Here Flesh: Spirituality, liberation and the stories that make us, joins Dom and Sue to talk about the power of an embodied spirituality and the dignity of the stories that make us. 

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Home is a word that carries so much longing within it. Many artists have explored the foundational homesickness central to the human experience - this sense we each carry of being disconnected or separated in some way from the home we long for. 
In this episode, Dom returns to his ancestral home of Belfast to share a conversation with author, theologian, and philosopher Pete Rollins about where our longings for home come from, this primal sense of disconnection that we all carry, and why we desire what we do. 

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The lives of human beings are shaped not only by people and events but also by the narratives that we use to understand ourselves and the world. Join Dom, Sue, and Peter as they explore the implications of allowing ourselves to hold that we have been blessed, loved, and celebrated by God as ‘good’ from the beginning. The idea of ‘Original Blessing’ leads us to a very different place of self-understanding to that imposed by the idea of  ‘Original Sin’. What if we understood Christmass to be God’s act of solidarity rather than a rescue mission?  How would we modify the way we live?

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The idea of the multiverse is explained by our guest, David Williams, as both simple and wildly complex: there is not just one story, nor a single universe. Instead of traditional beliefs in linear time and space, the idea of a multiverse posits that there are other realities beyond that which could potentially be seen or explored. David is a pastor, theologian and science fiction writer and joins this surprising conversation to consider the weirdness of science and what that means for faith. Dom, Peter and Sue dive into a conversation that travels through prayer, ethics and philosophy as much as quantum physics, and discover that there can be wondrous new insights possible when we loosen our grip on how we define what is real and allow greater mystery and complexity. In a world where anything is possible, what would that mean for the way we live?

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What if we focussed on what we should be fighting for, instead of what we should be fighting against? When all we hear is apocalyptic climate disaster, we can shut down, pour another glass of wine and find the next Netflix binge. When we only tell the story of a fearful future, the sense of being overwhelmed induces a paralysis that suppresses the creative potential of human possibility. Director of the acclaimed documentary, "2040", Damon Gameau joins Dom and Peter to discuss his most recent short film, "Regenerating Australia". The film, and this conversation, is a testimony to the power of story-telling to reawaken the human spirit and respond to the greatest challenges of our time through collaborative community. 

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In only our second podcast recorded with a live audience, The Rev'd Associate Professor Matthew Anstey joins Dom, Peter and Sue for a conversation about scripture and the relationships that matter most in our lived experience. What does our sacred text, in dialogue with tradition, reason and experience, have to say to sacred relationship? And how are these relationships and our interpretation of scripture impacted by the dynamics of power in the world and in the church? This conversation offers the hope that when we listen and attend to scripture and the Spirit, we will see and know the beauty of relationships characterised by freedom, mutuality, integrity and commitment. 

Matthew is Priest-in-charge at St Theodore's, Toorak Gardens, Adelaide, and an Old Testament scholar.

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Religion, faith backgrounds and belief systems can be the source of mental health wounding that manifest in unexpected ways. Sometimes we can think we are talking about beliefs and yet be unaware that someone’s experience of faith is hooked into a deep pain, making some conversations and teachings an attack on their humanity. We welcome The Rev’d Andrew Cooper to the podcast to share his own story and reflections in a conversation that is not so much an exposition on religious trauma as it is an opening of a critical discussion about its effects and how we are to build safer communities that honour the dignity of every human being.

The Rev’d Andrew Cooper is a Parish Priest in Brisbane. He recently returned from the Scottish Episcopal Church which he describes as a blessed experience of complete affirmation and acknowledgment of personhood as a gay man and priest. He is very grateful to the Centre for Prophetic Imagination in Minnesota and the ongoing training in Spiritual Direction and Social Transformation which has helped him find his voice and enter the pathway of healing.

Content warning: This conversation includes references to causes and symptoms of religious trauma. If anything in this conversation causes distress, support is available through the following providers.

Lifeline: Call 13 11 14 anytime for confidential telephone crisis support.

Beyond Blue: Call 1300 22 4636 https://www.beyondblue.org.au/get-support/get-immediate-support

Open Doors Youth Service: support to young people with diverse genders, sex and sexualities.  https://www.opendoors.net.au/

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We make healing connections with others through our vulnerability and shared stories. The last three years have meant that across the globe humanity has shared an experience of difficulty, doubt and change, making Barbara Brown Taylor's book, "Learning to Walk in the Dark" of great value for our time. When the only way to the new day is through the darkness, it is beautiful to be reminded that the light is at work well before we are aware of its presence. Using the imagery of twilight, we talk about the way faith is demonstrated in the kind of perseverance that is able to greet the promise of dawn, putting one foot in front of the other and finding something to love in each new day.

Barbara Brown Taylor is an author of many best selling books and a spiritual teacher and guide much beloved by this podcast, but also by so many in the world who have found comfort and healing in the beauty and wisdom of her words. 

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What changes when we have eyes that see God everywhere? As we recognise the divinity that flows through all things, intimately present in all of creation, we experience the sacred revealed in the wonder of nature as much as in human lives. Karen Armstrong, author and global scholar of religious history, joins the podcast to explore the place of the natural world in religious traditions. While we remain culturally programmed toward dominance and possession, Karen helps us explore how we might instead develop a posture of "endless respect" toward all creation, and what that could mean for for the community of life on this planet and for the way we practise our faith.

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There may be no simple answers in life, but what if there were a map?

Dr Alexander John Shaia returns to the podcast to share the pattern he sees at the heart of the sacred texts of the four Gospels; a way that can guide us on a journey of growth, transformation and love. Alexander describes through this conversation how each Gospel is written in response to one of life's four great questions. It was as an anthropologist that he first discovered the universal ways that humans tell their story, but it was in the Gospels that Alexander found a living guide to wisdom, courage, joy and service that enables us to see our lives as part of the pattern centred in a mystical relationship with the cosmic Christ.

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From the enmeshment with colonisation and patriarchy, a history of violence and abuse, corruption, greed or just simply a lack of evidence of transformation amongst those who claim to speak for the faith, there can appear to be many good reasons not to stay Christian. Brian McLaren returns to the podcast to honestly name the reasons why so many are asking themselves this question and to consider the equally compelling and deep call to remain ‘on the way’.  This conversation offers safety and permission to ask the “un-askable questions” that may help us to have the courage to become the most loving versions of ourselves, both individually and communally, and live into the fullness of our humanity.

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Christianity is most commonly associated with resistance to change, but in times of great social evolution the Church is also drawn by all that would lead to a richer expression of humanity and greater integrity in relationships. In this special edition recorded ahead of the meeting of the General Synod of the Anglican Church in Australia, The Rev’d Dr Wayne Brighton joins the podcast to talk about his own evolution as an evangelical moving from a place of welcoming rainbow Christians to a position inclusive and affirming of those diverse in gender and sexuality. While some would seek to draw lines that exclude, Wayne describes his experience of following the Christ who is the great boundary crosser, leading us to become a church that is known for the way its members love one another.

The Rev'd Dr Wayne Brighton is Rector of Holy Covenant Anglican Church in Canberra and currently a member of the General Synod’s Mission and Ministry Commission.

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Dr Willie Jennings: Transforming Desire

What do we want? What sort of conditioning has shaped our wanting?

Dr Willie Jennings joins the podcast to explore how our desire has been shaped by the idea of "whiteness"; a way of being in the world that at its heart is about the vision of the self-sufficient man; self-possessed, in control, the master of all he surveys. This identity has its roots in the colonising history which sought to shape the "new world" in ways that were understandable and controllable, creating a way of being and meaning making that became intertwined with the mission and self-understanding of the Church. Willie suggests that as we respond to the pressing question, “Where does it hurt?” we will be able to reconnect with our own embodied lives, grounded in place, and deeply connected by the Spirit to the well-being of one another.

Dr Peter Kline who joins the podcast team for this episode is the Academic Dean and lecturer in Systematic Theology at St Francis Theological College in Brisbane.

Dr Willie James Jennings is a theologian, author and Associate Professor of Systematic Theology and Africana Studies at Yale University. His most recent book is “After Whiteness: An Education in Belonging.”

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What does it mean to be a contemplative? Does it bring up for you an image of a silent monk in a cell, or a solitary individual on a mountaintop or something aspirational- far removed from your everyday life? The Rev’d Dr Barbara Holmes joins the podcast to challenge our beliefs about what contemplation is, revealing the limitations of a Euro-centric view that misses the many different portals to the contemplative experience. She describes how even a crisis and great suffering can be a way that people together find an entry to a space of transformation and connection with others and the divine source of our being. Barbara Holmes is a scholar of African American spirituality and mysticism who teaches how God’s communal presence can inspire imagination and wisdom, especially in times of crisis. Her latest book is “Crisis Contemplation: Healing the Wounded Village.”

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So often we think of our inner life as somehow separate to our outer life. Parker J. Palmer joins the podcast, talking about the importance of the integration between our inner and outer worlds and the expression of non-violent living that grows from this hidden wholeness. The lack of a nurtured inner life, he contends, leads us to violence, individualism and disconnection, and Parker brings eight decades of life experience to the question of what we do with our suffering and how we can find our way back to one another and our truest selves.

Parker J. Palmer is a writer, speaker and activist who focuses on issues in education, community, leadership, spirituality and social change. He is founder and Senior Partner Emeritus of the Center for Courage & Renewal and the author of ten books: Healing the Heart of Democracy, The Heart of Higher Education (with Arthur Zajonc), The Courage to Teach, A Hidden Wholeness, Let Your Life Speak, The Active Life, To Know As We Are Known, The Company of Strangers, The Promise of Paradox, and On the Brink of Everything: Grace, Gravity and Getting Old.

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Inspired by the Ubuntu philosophy “I am who I am because we are who we are”, Jacqui Lewis writes and teaches through stories from her own life that inspire and challenge us to not give up on love. She describes our current experience as “hot mess times” in a world divided by politics, race, intolerance, fear, and rancour, but doubles down on empathy, compassion, and forgiveness as the way of transformation. Jacqui joins the podcast for a generous and warm-hearted conversation that helps us have the courage to be vulnerable even as we resist all that which dehumanises and divides us from one another.  

The Rev’d Dr Jacqui Lewis is a public theologian and author of several books including her most recent, Fierce Love: A Bold Path to Ferocious Courage and Rule-breaking Kindness That Can Heal the World. Jacqui is the first African American and the first woman to serve as a senior minister in the Collegiate Church, New York.

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Amidst decorations, carols and shopping, have we missed the deeper journey of Christmas in all its symbolic power? Can we reintegrate the Gospel stories of Jesus' birth with the natural cycles and rhythms of creation and our own human experience? Alexander John Shaia joins Peter and Dom to talk about Christmas traditions from evergreen trees to Santa Claus and finds a richness that brings together the two great books of nature and scripture. In the narrative of new birth heard every Christmas, we bear witness to the radiance at the heart of all things and are reminded that new life always happens in the midst of the deepest darkness. 

All of Alexander John Shaia's books are listed on www.quadratos.com/books/ 

Beginning 25 January, he will teach a 7-week online course on the Four-Gospel Journey through The Shift Network, registration begins in January. Details on: www.quadratos.com in early January. 

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Some may think that pronunciations about law made in the fifteenth century during an age of European expansion and exploration would have little impact on lives today. Yet the Doctrine of Discovery is doing just that. It is a body of law and policy, legitimated by the Church, that says land is considered “empty” and therefore free for the taking if inhabited by “heathens, pagans, and infidels”. This doctrine continues to define reality for indigenous peoples across the globe in those parts of the world colonised when Europeans sought new lands across the oceans. Sarah Augustine joins the podcast, bringing a depth of experience in addressing the current and shocking impact of colonising systems and laws that continue to justify exploitation of land and peoples. Sarah believes there is still hope for the righting of wrongs, but the work is urgent as “what was done in the name of Christ must be undone in the name of Christ.”

Sarah Augustine is founder and cochair of the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery and is the author of The Land is Not Empty (2021)

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Many people are drawn to spirituality and the God of creation but struggle to know what to do with Jesus. For some, Jesus has become entangled with Trump-era politics, individualistic piety or the feel good religion of prosperity gospels. For others, disillusionment with their church or leadership has meant that they don’t want to leave the Jesus of their faith behind but feel like exiles from their church. Diana Butler Bass joins Peter, Sue and Dom to explore the ways Christians have experienced Jesus historically and gives old titles liberating new perspectives as she unpacks her experience of Jesus as Friend, Teacher, Saviour, Lord, Way and Presence.

Diana Butler Bass has a doctorate in religious studies and is the author of eleven books, including Grateful , Grounded and Christianity for the Rest of Us.

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Rewilding is about letting natural processes have their way and shape the landscape. Steve Aisthorpe, mission development worker for the Church of Scotland and author of “Rewilding the Church”, joins the podcast to explore how the same principle could be a creative force for life in the ecosystem of faith and mission. Metaphors are powerful and this conversation brings this metaphor into dialogue with the issues of our time. There is no clear roadmap proposed, but rather an attentiveness to what is emerging and how we might be part of re-imagining the landscape of the church through the transformative and unpredictable power of the Spirit.

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How can we give voice in our spiritual traditions to what the soul already knows? Religion can seem to be in the business of dispensing truth without giving credit to the knowledge we already have of the sacredness of the earth and of the human soul.  How we rediscover these natural rhythms of life and deepen our connections with God, each other and the earth determines our ability to respond to present ecological, social and spiritual crises. Writer and speaker and beloved Celtic teacher, John Philip Newell joins the podcast from Edinburgh to bring the wisdom from this rich tradition to enlighten our time.

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We generally hear the word “apocalypse” used in histrionic or fundamentalist ways, but Dr Catherine Keller joins the podcast to affirm the hope of a theology that calls us to action. Reading the book of Revelation not as prophecy of disaster but as an “unveiling” can recall us to a sense of our responsibility in our current global crisis. In this conversation, Catherine reclaims the role of the prophet as someone who sees clearly to tell us that we can do something to change our path, affirming our role as co-creators with God and agents of hopeful possibility. Catherine Keller is a professor in Constructive Theology at the Theological School of Drew University and author of many books.

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What is it like to begin with practice as the unifying quality for a community rather than belief? The Rev’d Dr Sarah Bachelard rejoins the podcast to talk about prayer and what it takes to create life-giving habits of spiritual practice in a way that allows grace for all our mixed motivations and space for our struggles. Sue, Peter, Dom and Sarah chat about the habits that drive us, the distractions and complications that trip us up, and the forgiving nature of prayer that helps to draw again and again from the deep well that nourishes and gives us life.

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George Browning, in his role as Bishop of Canberra, was told by the then Prime Minister John Howard that his contribution to public debate was “not helpful.” Bishop George joins  Dom, Peter and Sue to share stories from Australian politics of where truth telling was an unwelcome intrusion, how self-interest and power are so often protected at the expense of the vulnerable and what this means for those who seek to follow the way of Jesus.

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What happens when we accept the invitation to investigate all the wonder around us? Certainty about what we believe can get in the way of the kind of “holy envy” that opens us to new ways of seeing as we engage with other traditions. Barbara Brown Taylor joins Peter, Sue and Dom to cultivate our curiosity about other religions and spiritual practices, renew our commitment to loving one another and explore how our dualisms keep coming back to haunt us. This curious path can gift us with great spiritual treasures even as we learn more about our own beloved tradition.

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Brian McLaren joins Peter, Dom and Sue to talk about why sometimes our beliefs stop working and what we can do about it. While many people think of faith as unwavering certainty, Brian explores the idea of doubt as integral to the way of faith; a way which can move through stages with doubt as an adventurous and audacious companion. This conversation is perfect for anyone who has ever felt like a misfit in their faith community, for those who have been made to feel guilty for their lack of faith and for those courageous objectors accused of being a backslider or corrupting influence. Into this place of hurt and confusion, Brian points hopefully to communities of harmony where the search for the genuine is honoured: both in one another and in ourselves. 

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The inordinate obsession with sex in Christian history and the recent toxic fixation of the church on issues around gender and sexuality has led to great shame, guilt and a lack of love and respect for our embodied experience and the gifts of sexual pleasure. It is also led to a suppression of healthy sexuality and a lack of conversation around what it means to have relationships of goodness and integrity. Nadia Bolz-Weber joins the podcast to talk about her book, Shameless: A Sexual Reformation and why we need to have the grace and courage to reform our ideas about sex, gender and our bodies in order to find our way to healing. Her words strike a chord with any who have been harmed by religious teaching about sex and opens the space for us to all reclaim a faith that honours the dignity of our bodies and the joy and goodness of human relationships. 

CW: Strong language.

If any of the issues raised cause distress, confidential support is available through the following providers;

1800 Respect national helpline 1800 737 732

Lifeline (24 hour crisis line) 131 114

Beyond Blue 1300 224 636

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St Paul has been often cast as an arch conservative. Douglas Campbell joins Dom, Peter and Sue to show how Paul has always been in the business of liberation. Douglas has devoted decades of his life to studying Paul and is determined to rescue him from his reputation as an authoritarian and recover the message of his writings as confrontingly, shockingly liberal and inclusive. In doing so, as this conversation discovers, there is a challenge for both the left and the right of the church to rediscover the life-giving heart of Paul’s letters. Douglas is the author of several books, including Pauline Dogmatics: The Triumph of God’s Love.

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What would it mean if you were told from a young age that you needed to be sent away from parents, from home, from all that is familiar... because God required it? How do children understand such a sacrifice in the name of God, and how might it change their lives? The kind of thinking which led to such decisions reveals a great deal about the kind of god we worship and how we live. Dr John Chenoweth joins the podcast to share his reflections on the experience of being a very young child sent away to boarding school in Malaysia so that his parents could work as missionaries. It is a story that reveals much about our human experience and how trying to do good can lead us into great wrong. John is one of the authors and editors of the book, Sent: Reflections on Missions, Boarding School and Childhood. 

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Richard Holloway joins the podcast from Edinburgh to explore how the stories we tell ourselves create the rules we live by and the meaning we make of our existence. Richard tells some of his story as he looks at the narratives of the Judeo-Christian tradition and the way down the ages myth has morphed into certainties that have been destructive rather than liberating. How do we engage a rich and varied tradition without succumbing to the temptation to systemise our narratives into dogma that ignores the reality of suffering? How can we live with the paradox of a God we experience in the absence as much as presence? What stories reduce our humanity and which ones capture our imagination and enable us to live into our best selves? 

CW: Strong language

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Dr Janice McRandal joins the podcast to talk about relationships, family and gender norms in our culture and the misogyny that is present in our most personal social structures. Janice argues that unless feminism has a place in the home, in the everyday moments of our lives, there can be no feminism at all because the domestic is the political. At the heart of this conversation is a critique of the idea that the public is what happens outside the home where small groups of people have influence in the realm of politics, but that what goes on in the home is a different sphere entirely. Questions about the politics of a good life; of living justly and fairly really begin in the home, and maybe the lack of progress we see is due to the exclusion of family life from political discourse. 

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Dr Tripp Fuller, author, theologian and host of Homebrewed Christianity joins Peter, Sue and Dom from Edinburgh to talk about the big question of who is the one we call Jesus the Christ. What did God do in Christ that we couldn't do for ourselves? Tripp's latest book, Divine Self-Investment, explores an answer to that question that refuses to be confined to simplistic formulae but finds a place in our evolving, relational experience of life, insisting on a God "who is at least as nice as Jesus". 

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On the Way has gone on the road to Toowoomba to celebrate the Season of Creation with The Rev'd Deb Bird during the Carnival of Flowers in the garden city. The Season of Creation restores the focus of our essential interconnectedness to all life on the earth and offers the opportunity to offer a response of lament, gratitude and hope in our sacred services and life of faith . This episode was recorded live in front of an audience at St James, Toowoomba. 

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What if life is an endless invitation? Rob Bell joins Peter, Dom and Sue to talk about the creative, life-giving work of Spirit, endlessly creating new forms and possibilities in the world. Rob is a speaker and author of ten books, including his latest, "Everything is Spiritual" where he explores his own faith journey and how ideas like connection, creation and the power of love have shaped his life and work. For many, Rob's work has been a powerful influence, pointing the way to a deeper faith that embraces doubt and rests in the hope that, ultimately, love wins and that this is not just good news for some, but for everybody. 

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Author and social researcher Hugh Mackay joins the podcast to delve into that most searching question, “Who am I, really?”  Peter, Dom and Sue join Hugh in conversation about his book, The Inner Self, exploring ways we hide from the truth about ourselves and find courage for the demands of love as we live into our true identity.

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Dom, Peter and Sue catch up to chat about the way this time of crisis has been bringing into sharp focus the urgency of continuing to challenge the Christianity which has  throughout history been colonised by power structures and co-opted by empire. It seems that some of the veneer of "civilised society" has been stripped away, exposing the unholy alliance between church and power, ideology and control.  Can we pay attention to the disruptive story of these times, embrace uncertainty and respond to the question, "How might we live, following Jesus today?" 

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The Rev'd Dr Sarah Bachelard joins Dom, Sue and Peter in a conversation about the creative possibilities of a contemplative life to ground us in the midst of uncertain times.  How do we find a way in times of anxiety to "be with what is", rather than try to resist what cannot be changed?  Join us as we explore the gifts of silence and stillness to help us to embrace the potentialities of a world reimagined through this experience of pandemic. Sarah is the founder of Benedictus Contemplative Church based in Canberra. She is an Anglican priest, theologian, retreat leader, and author.

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Peter, Dom and Sue are joined by author and previous podcast guest, Jim Schirmer to talk about being the church in a time where we have to be disciples distanced from one another. What does it mean to be walking the way of the cross in a time of pandemic and to be resurrection people in a time of anxiety? Holy Week presents new challenges as we journey to the cross and the empty tomb in these days before us when themes of life and death are in such vivid focus. This context provides a new vantage point to explore some of the ideas in Jim's book, "The Way of the Rabbi: Stories of Discipleship from the Gospel of Mark." 

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In the midst of the coronavirus crisis, what are healthy ways of responding? How do we find ways to be community and be the best humans we can be in a time of anxiety? 

Like everyone else, Dom, Sue, and Peter are just coming to terms with the rapidly changing face of a pandemic. In this conversation we are joined by The Rev'd Dr Ann Solari, Deacon at the cathedral and GP who offers medical care to different groups, including amongst people who are homeless. This conversation explores the risks for the most vulnerable and the many facets of the way this pandemic is affecting individuals and societies. 

How can we be doing life differently at this time? How could we find the invitation to life in a time of crisis and be communities of love and courage? 

(Please note that this conversation was recorded on the 20 March before churches were closed) 

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What is truth? Are our opinions and beliefs being driven by narratives of which we are only dimly aware? What is the role of good journalism in revealing current events and the stories of people we may never know but whose lives are connected with our own or our nation’s story? Peter Greste joins Dom, Peter and Sue to talk about that time in an Egyptian prison, the courage to insist on the freedom of ideas and the healthy nature of scepticism in questions about truth in our time. 

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Is the West dying for a better story? In this special live podcast recorded at St John’s Cathedral, organisational psychologist Dr Neil Preston joins Dom, Sue and Peter to discuss whether the West has forgotten how to tell its story, and how the crisis of meaning can be traced to the loss of a shared narrative. If this is true, how can the loneliness of an individualistic culture be resisted so we can find our way back to one another? 

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We all carry with us the ego ideal of ourselves and the New Year can be a time when we put more energy into striving to live into that image. But there is also the part of ourselves which is far from our ideal and which we would all rather not face. What does it mean to encounter and make peace with our shadow- as an individual, a community or a nation? Dr George Trippe returns to the podcast to explore Jung’s understanding of the role of the shadow in our lives, the importance of welcoming the whole of ourselves and the power of facing as communities what we would rather not see.

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In our final interview from the Byron Writers Festival, Dom Fay and Sue Grimmett are joined by Tim Costello to talk about the kind of faith that begets hope, leading us to live everyday lives of love in the ordinary but also in the challenging days before us both individually and as a society. This conversation speaks into the religious freedom debate, the history of ideas in the West, and how we can find ways to step around polarising positions to live as welcoming, engaged communities, transcending all our fears. Tim is formerly a Baptist pastor, CEO of World Vision and now senior fellow for the Australian Centre for Public Christianity.  

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Bruce Pascoe, author of Dark Emu, is popularly recognised as Australia’s most influential indigenous historian and responsible for challenging and revising established accounts of pre-colonial history that depicted Aboriginal people as ‘nothing more than spear-throwing nomads.’ Bruce joins the podcast at the Byron Writers Festival to talk about the ignored and suppressed history of Aborigines cultivating crops, building large villages and creating sophisticated dams and aquaculture systems. He explores with Dom and Sue the power and racism that has controlled the national story and how the Church can move from being part of the problem to part of the solution. This conversation covers some of the history of Aboriginal society as well as exploring the spirituality of truth-telling and the hard and vital work that needs to be done in decolonisation. Bruce Pascoe is an award-winning writer and a Yuin, Bunurong and Tasmanian man. He is a board member of First Languages Australia and Professor of Indigenous Knowledge at the University of Technology Sydney. 

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In the second of the series of recordings from the Byron Writers Festival, Jess Hill joins Sue and Dom to talk about domestic abuse and the systems that enable perpetrators. The conversation explores the frightening realities behind the statistics and how our communities can confront the fear and violence that is present in so many relationships. Jess Hill is an investigative journalist who has been writing about domestic violence since 2014. Prior to this, she was a producer for ABC Radio, a Middle East correspondent and is listed in Foreign Policy's top 100 women to follow. Her reporting on domestic violence has won two Walkley awards, an Amnesty International award and three Our Watch awards.

Content warning: This conversation covers topics of domestic abuse and family violence.

If you are affected by domestic abuse help is available. The following site provides further information on where to find support both for victims and those who use family violence and are seeking counselling.

https://www.whiteribbon.org.au/find-help/domestic-violence-hotlines/

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Episode 40- On the Way: How did we get here? Politics, Democracy and Liberation with Jeff Sparrow

In the first of this series of recordings from the Byron Writers Festival, Jeff Sparrow joins Dom and Sue to talk about the ideologies of our times that are driving popular political, cultural and religious rhetoric, and how we can reclaim our voice in truthful conversations and liberating community action. Jeff is a writer, editor, broadcaster and author of a number of books including Trigger Warnings: Political Correctness and the Rise of the Right.

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How much of the way we practice our faith is imported? How much does our expression of faith reflect a church engaging with the land and embedded in indigenous culture? The Rev’d Glenn Loughrey, First Nations person and Wiradjuri man, joins Peter, Dom and Sue to explore how the church can break away from its colonial history and colonising structures and live into an expression of good news rooted firmly in the soil of this place and this time.

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Have you ever wondered how faith might affect your everyday decisions about what you eat? Our food has an impact on not just our own bodies, but on all living things on earth, the environment and how we are able to share justly the resources of life. Professor David Clough joins Sue and Dom to talk about the impact of eating animals and animal products, what we need to know about meat and dairy production, and the interrelated nature of all life on earth. David completed his PhD at Yale, lectures in systematic theology and ethics and is the author of the landmark two volume work "On Animals." 

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Sometimes the most important thing we can do is tell our story, in all its messiness and vulnerability. John Rolley’s story travels the deep terrain of identity, vocation and belonging and captures poignantly the struggle of a man seeking a life of integrity and wholeness in cultures where that seemed impossible. This story shows how the search for belonging is the same journey as that to your true self.
Content Warning: This podcast contains references to sexuality, depression and suicidality. 

If anything in this conversation causes distress, support is available through the following providers.

Lifeline: Call 13 11 14 anytime for confidential telephone crisis support.

Beyond Blue: Call 1300 22 4636 https://www.beyondblue.org.au/get-support/get-immediate-support

Open Doors Youth Service: support to young people with diverse genders, sex and sexualities.  https://www.opendoors.net.au/

Equal Voices: supports, sustains and empowers LGBTIQ Christians to express their religious identity in community with others https://equalvoices.org.au/

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Music communicates in a language that is experienced more powerfully than the spoken word. John Bell joins Dom, Peter and Sue to explore the way music can powerfully shape and change not only our experience of worship, but also how we understand ourselves and God.  What do the songs we sing tell us about what we really believe and how we think we should live? John is a hymn writer, composer, lecturer and broadcaster, and an ordained minister of the Church of Scotland and member of the Iona Community. 

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What do William Shakespeare and the Church have in common? Perhaps it is to do with the big questions explored and in the way, at their best, they both address the human condition, hold a prophetic role in society and speak truth in both direct and mythological forms. Dr Rob Pensalfini joins the podcast to talk with Dom, Peter and Sue about some of these biggest questions, tracking the ways theatre and the church have evolved and what this reveals about the passion and pathos of the human condition. Rob is Associate Professor of linguistics and drama at the University of Queensland and Artistic Director of the Queensland Shakespeare Ensemble. 

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The Royal Commission investigating institutional responses to child sexual abuse uncovered failures of the Church to protect children and revealed stories of betrayal, violence and suffering leading to ongoing, long-term trauma for sexual abuse survivors. Secrecy, clericalism and an unwillingness to believe the stories of victims have all been factors in the failure of the church to prevent these abuses. 

Hearing the stories is vital. Steve Smith, who recently appeared on the SBS documentary Christians Like Us, joins the podcast to share his story and reflect on faith and the church . From the age of 10 to 15, Steve was sexually abused by an Anglican priest, and spent the next three decades seeking justice.

Content warning: This conversation talks about child sexual abuse and trauma. If anything in this conversation causes distress, support is available through the providers listed below.

Child abuse is a crime. If you have been a victim of abuse, or are concerned about a child being abused, you should report your concerns to local police.

Finding help and support

The work of the Royal Commission, and particularly the stories of survivors, may bring up many strong feelings and questions. Be assured you are not alone, and that there are many services and support groups available to assist in dealing with these. Some options for advice and support are listed below:

1800 Respect - Call 1800 737 732 or visit www.1800respect.org.au24/7 telephone and online crisis support, information and immediate referral to specialist counselling for anyone in Australia who has experienced or been impacted by sexual assault, or domestic or family violence. 

Lifeline - Call 13 11 14 or visit www.lifeline.org.au   24 hour crisis support and suicide prevention 

Contact details for additional National and State support services can be found here;

https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/contact

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The label of being a “progressive” can often be misunderstood. The Rev’d Tiffany Sparks joins the podcast to talk about culture, mainstream media, and sharing the Gospel in a way that releases it to be lifegiving and liberating in the world today.

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Being gay and being Christian can be a hard journey in communities of faith. The stories of pain and exclusion told by many are a prompt to listen more closely to the experiences of the DiGS (Diverse in Gender and Sexuality) community and to pay attention to the damaging and dangerous implications of our theology and practice. Chris Csabs, recently seen in the SBS documentary Christians Like Us joins Dom, Peter and Sue to tell his story and share in a conversation about radical, unconditional love and being the church for everyone. Content warning: This conversation includes references to suicide and so-called 'gay conversion therapy' . If anything in this conversation causes distress, support is available through the following providers.

Lifeline: Call 13 11 14 anytime for confidential telephone crisis support.

Beyond Blue: Call 1300 22 4636 https://www.beyondblue.org.au/get-support/get-immediate-support

Open Doors Youth Service: support to young people with diverse genders, sex and sexualities.  https://www.opendoors.net.au/

Equal Voices: supports, sustains and empowers LGBTIQ Christians to express their religious identity in community with others https://equalvoices.org.au/

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SBS recently aired a reality television experience called Christians Like Us, describing it as "10 Christians from around Australian, living together for one week. From conservative to progressive, Catholic to Anglican, charismatic to controversial - each confronting the issues that challenge their respective faiths." The results are an interesting study in the challenges facing the church, but also the power of love to forge enduring friendships in an environment of raw vulnerability. Coming up in future podcast episodes are conversations with housemates, The Rev'd Tiffany Sparks, Chris Csabs and Steve Smith, but first here are three short, revealing interviews with Dom about their experience in the house.

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Meteorologist, Climate Scientist and Eco-theologian, Dr Mick Pope joins the podcast to talk  climate change, the future of our planet and the response of communities of faith. Mick outlines the history of the science, the most pressing evidence which prompts us to action, and why the church and other religious traditions have a part to play in this most critical of conversations. 

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How do we move from faith as a fixed set of beliefs to a transformative event that transforms and renews our life? And how can living into the events of Holy Week and the new day of Easter together change us in ways that can be different every time we enter this old story? Dom Fay, Peter Catt and Sue Wilton explore the journey of Lent and the cruciform pattern that plays out in our lives in surprising and holy ways. 

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Does money really make the world go around? Is self-interest the only reliable predictor of human civil and social behaviour? The Rev'd Gillian Moses joins the podcast to talk about  the assumptions we make about economics, and how challenging beliefs about competition and scarcity can open us to a new way of being together that heals the isolation and dehumanisation of consumer capitalism. 

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Dom Fay, Peter Catt and Sue Wilton are joined by Dave Andrews to explore "Plan Be"- the ethical guidelines laid out by Jesus in The Beatitudes that can help us be the change we want to see in the world. This is about a way of being that helps us live into our deepest potential through inner transformation that in turn transforms our world with justice, integrity, compassion and peace. The conversation explores what it means to follow the way of Jesus through the framework of these 8 life-giving principles.

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Happy Christmas or Seasons Greetings? And what jokes and topics of conversation are okay to bring out these holidays at parties and family BBQs? In this episode Peter Catt, Dom Fay and Sue Wilton discuss the emotions around being “PC”, explore what is really felt to be at stake and how we can navigate this territory as people of faith. 

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Ever wondered what your dreams might reveal? Dr George Trippe rejoins Dom, Peter and Sue in a conversation about how the symbols and images of our dreams and nightmares can be a language of rich spiritual insight, wisdom and self-knowledge. 

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What is prayer, and how do we go about it? Joining the podcast for a conversation about the practice, meaning and purpose of prayer is The Rev’d Dr Sarah Bachelard, founder and leader of Benedictus Contemplative Church in Canberra and honorary fellow at the Australian Catholic University.

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Author Matt Haig joins Dom and Sue on the podcast to explore some of the ways our world can make us unwell. Social commentaries often reports that rates of stress and anxiety are rising. We are more connected, yet feel more alone. We are encouraged to worry about everything from world politics to our body mass index. Author Matt Haig joins the podcast to talk about the question of how to stay human in a technological and fast paced world. After years of anxiety, Matt began to look for the link between what he felt and the world around him. In this conversation he discusses his latest book, Notes on a Nervous Planet and explores how to feel happy and human in the twenty-first century. Matt Haig is a UK author of several best-selling works of fiction and non-fiction, including How to Stop Time and Reasons to Stay Alive.

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Dom Fay and Sue Wilton are joined by The Very Rev’d Professor Andrew McGowan to explore some of the ancient history of religion and the way ideas about sacrifice pervade the religious imagination. What was the place of sacrifice within ancient religious tradition and what do Christians mean when they talk about Jesus as the sacrificial lamb? This conversation explores the misunderstandings around the nature and history of sacrifice and how a richer understanding can lead to a more compassionate and liberating experience of Christian faith and eucharistic worship. Andrew McGowan is the Dean of Berkeley Divinity School within Yale in New Haven, Connecticut.

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Peter Catt and Dom Fay are joined by The Rev’d Chris Bedding to talk about the place of humour and the absurd in religion. Where does humour turn up in our understanding of faith and the Christian life? What do comedy and worship share in common and is there anything we can’t laugh at? Chris Bedding is a real live Anglican Priest who serves the Parish of Darlington-Bellevue. He is also a stand-up comedian, actor, director and musician, and one half of the duo responsible for Pirate Church; a loving satire about the wacky world of religion, and Christianity in particular.

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Professor William Franke and Professor Kevin Hart join Dom Fay and Sue Wilton to try to speak about the unspeakable: How can we talk about God when language fails us? Given that God is mystery and that cannot be conceived as an object among other objects in our cosmos, how do we deepen our understanding and grow in a relationship of love to the Divine? William Franke is Professor of Religious Studies and Comparative Literature at Vanderbilt University in Nashville Tennessee and Kevin Hart is Professor in Religious Studies at Virginia University whose poetry is also widely known and acclaimed in Australia and around the world.

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Dom Fay and Sue Wilton are joined by Professor Ellen Charry in a discussion about what it really means to be happy, what is the kind of happiness that lasts, and what goodness and blessing have to do with it all. Ellen is Professor of Systematic Theology Emerita of Princeton Theological Seminary, New Jersey, and author of many publications, including God and the Art of Happiness.

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Do you dream of slowing your life down? Maybe you have explored slow reading, slow food, and even slow TV. What about slow church? The Right Rev’d Professor Stephen Pickard, Bishop and Executive Director for the Australian Centre for Christianity and Culture joins us on the podcast to explore how the best things in life can be slow, the mysteries of life can’t be rushed and nothing can be loved at speed.

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Wm. Paul Young, author of several books including "The Shack", joins Dom and Sue to talk about shame and the way it can hold us back from a flourishing life; a life grounded in an awareness that we are loved and of great worth. What are the things we believe or have been told about God that would tell us the opposite? How do we instead travel the journey towards authenticity and freedom? 

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