The Holiday Sitter (Queer Hallmark)

It's time for the Christmas episode! In which Rowan and Jazza discuss how Hallmark went from banning gay ads to making their own queer movies in three years flat. 

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This is a queer movie watch party for your ears, hosted by Rowan Ellis and Jazza John. Join us as we take a look at the queer film canon, one genre at a time. From rom-coms to slashers, contemporary arthouse cinema to comedy classics - Queer Movie Podcast is a celebration of all things queer on the silver screen!

New episodes every other Thursday.

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Production

- Hosts: Rowan Ellis and Jazza John

- Editor: Julia Schifini

- Executive Producer: Multitude

- Artwork: Jessica E. Boyd

 

JAZZA:  Before we kick off this episode, just want to say a quick thank you so much to Jennifer and Toby who support us at the highest level of the rainbow parent on our Patreon. We love you um with the podcast.

[theme]

JAZZA:  Welcome to the Queer Movie Podcast, celebrating the best—

ROWAN:  And worst—

JAZZA:  —in LGBTQ plus cinema one glorious genre at a time.

ROWAN:  I'm Rowan Ellis.

JAZZA:  And I—I am JAZZA: John.

ROWAN:  In each episode we discuss a movie from a different genre of cinema.

JAZZA:  This episodes genre is—

JAZZA AND ROWAN: Queer Hallmark. 

JAZZA:  Ho.Ho.Ho. Today we are going to be talking about how Hallmark, the company that does greeting cards, but also for some reason, also does movies have gone from banning gay ads, to producing queer movies of their own in three years flat? Also, the movie itself, which is called The Holiday Sitter.

ROWAN:  But before we get triggered by the mere mention of pancakes as the lead does in this movie, which is a scene. We will be going in. I'm so glad that Jazza has mentioned this in the intro, because we will be diving deep into that particular choice by the director and actor. Jazza, what's the gayest thing that you've done since the last episode?

JAZZA:  Rowan, I may actually have had the gayest month of my life.

ROWAN:  Oh, tell me everything.

JAZZA:  So I—

ROWAN:  Except like, like, tell me everything in about 60 seconds. Yeah, we got to get them on the episode.

JAZZA:  Yeah, I could tell you about the fact that I went to a Sugababes concert. And now wear their merch all of the time. I could tell you about the fact that I have moved to New York. But don't worry, there'll be lots of other opportunities—

ROWAN:  Stunning.

JAZZA:  —to us to be able to do that. I could tell you about the fact that in the last two weeks, I have gone on seven days. 

ROWAN:  Oh my.

JAZZA:  And I'm going on my eighth one this—

ROWAN:  With the same—

JAZZA:  —Evening.

ROWAN:  —person or seven different boy?

JAZZA:  No different types of students.

ROWAN:  All the—all the dwarfs.

ROWAN:  Snow White.

JAZZA:  I'm Snow White. 

JAZZA:  Yeah. But I'm instead going to tell you about the—one of the most embarrassing celebrity encounters I've ever had. When I was saying goodbye to London, one of my final nights out with friends was at the Glory Pub, which is in North London. And we were watching this drag show, and who happens to be beside me, but Bowen Yang from—

ROWAN:  No.

JAZZA:  SNL and—

ROWAN:  No.

JAZZA:  —And

ROWAN:  You're lying. 

JAZZA:  And—and Fire Island. Uh no.

ROWAN:  I can't believe

JAZZA:  It's real.

ROWAN: this story for the pod.

JAZZA:  I have— I have been keeping—

ROWAN:  That's incredible.

JAZZA:  —It for the pod. I obviously it like a couple of people . So this is a look at the 60 seconds. Someone went up to Bowen Yang and said, oh my god, are you Bowen Yang, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, okay, I can't go over to him now. But then that person went from Bowen Yang to me, and was like are you Jazza John?

ROWAN:  No, wait, this exchange?

JAZZA:  I don't think so.

ROWAN:  Oh my god, I imagine. 

JAZZA:  Because I was just like, well, this is ridiculous that this happened, because I haven't put it—I've put like one video on the internet in the last year. And then I was like—I genuinely built up the courage to like say hi but like, I just think you're making really good stuff. Keep doing it. So I'm about to leave, and I'm like It's now or never. I go into Bowen Yang, and I go, hey, I think you're making great stuff. And he went, thank you so much. I try my best. And I went, oh, no, don't try your best. Make sure they get their money's worth.

ROWAN:  What?Oh, no, this really took so many turns, Jazza.

JAZZA:  I don't know. And then I just—and then I just 

ROWAN:  That, I don't know.

JAZZA:  And then—and then he followed me to the bus stop because he was leaving with his friends.

ROWAN:  Oh no.

JAZZA:  And thank God, he didn't got on the same bus as me. But it was—it was terrible. It was really horrific. And so now we can't be friends, because I'm just going to be replaying that in my head for the rest of my life.

ROWAN:  Oh, and like what's so wild is that, you had like an actual professional link to this man that you could have mentioned. This—

JAZZA:  Yeah. Oh.

ROWAN:  —this fucking podcast, you.

JAZZA:  Oh, I'm not saying I've done episodes and reviewed your acting. I'm not telling him that in the midddle of the club.

ROWAN:  Yes should have been like, but we could just have been like, really, really love your stuff. I—I am like a film journalist. You can say that, podcaster, that's what you do. And you could have been like—

JAZZA:  Okay.

ROWAN:  —we—we—we specifically talk about queer movies and we bloody loved Fire Island, and you deserve—

JAZZA:  Yeah. No—I.

ROWAN:  —everything you got from it. 

JAZZA:  No.

ROWAN:  Because it's true. We did.

JAZZA:  So in another—in another universe, he could have been a guest on the podcast, but I think it's that. It's not happening.

ROWAN:  Oh don't bring that into the—don't like the worst time and when that didn't happen, because you said just the worst sentence that could have come out of your mouth. Yeah, classic.

JAZZA:  Just made no sense. Anyway, what's that gayest thing you did?

ROWAN:  Um, I don't really think I can top that at all. What absolute chaos. Oh, I'll tell you what to do—I did, I—I sent my first four chapters and a full outline to my agent of the fiction, like book I'm writing, and she came back and she really, really liked it. And every single comment, there were some actual comments that were useful to the, you know, the writing and everything. But a lot of the comments were just hurt. Like I was clicking on them really nervously. This was a comment where she'll be like, terrible, take this out. But instead, it was just hoping like, low mood, and like, even—even in space, the gays do be doing this. And I'm like, oh, I love you so much. So it was um—I had a really good, good gay feedback from, from my agent on that.

JAZZA:  Amazing. Fantastic. I can't wait to read some of your space opera, it's gonna be great.

ROWAN:  Well, I mean, now you said that on air, we got Julio, can we clip it? If you don't, you broken the law. That's how this works.

JAZZA:  I can't wait to read whatever you're writing.

ROWAN:  At least one sentence of it.

[theme]

JAZZA:  We are not American. And therefore Hallmark movies aren't really a staple of our culture. Although I did just move to New York. And so I'm a proper New Yorker now. That's why Rowan has been wonderful and gone away, and done some top tier research on what um Hallmark, and why.

ROWAN:  I'm gonna get to that in a second. But just to let you know what else be going on in this podcast. It's the same as every episode, in case this is your first time joining. After that, we're going to be reviewing the plot, splitting the film into three acts as we do. Because you know, the three act structure is so universal. As such, we will be spoiling all of this movie. So feel free to watch it if you really want to, and come back to us when you seen it. But to be honest, it—it follows a very classic formula. It's very predictable. So you won't be missing much, like you can already probably guess the plot.

JAZZA:  Can I just say the—the depth of meaning in that short pause between you can watch it, and if you want to was profound.

ROWAN:  I say what I mean. And I mean, what I say, Jazza.

JAZZA:  Without further ado, let's find the funds to defer our flight to Hawaii three times in the week before Christmas and review The Holiday Sitter.

[theme]

ROWAN:  Okay, so, Hallmark, we need to talk about Hallmark. Hallmark is one of those brands in the US, which has a very long history. But it's very interesting history that I feel like not a lot of people necessarily know the beginnings of, although you can definitely see the tendrils of what it used to be still in that I would say. So I feel like when people hear the word Hallmark, they think of romcoms. Primarily, they think of the original movies. They think of it being kind of like low budget, fine, too bad acting. And actually probably the same goes to script as well. Zero creativity in terms of directorial choices. Potentially because there simply isn't time. So this is all I would say pretty accurate. Like the stereotype is kind of accurate. It's— it is a lot of rom coms. A typical Hallmark release cost just $2 million to produce, which is—

JAZZA:  Oh wow.

ROWAN:  —essentially nothing. That is 100 times less than, like blockbusters that you would see right. So like, No Way Home, for example, I know it's a $200 million budget. So quite literally a hundred times more expensive, which you know, you would expect. But 2 mill—2 million sounds like a lot until you actually get into the fact you having to pay for literally everything and everyone who works on that movie, and that suddenly, the money just goes. And so it's no surprise that because of that low budget, they are attempting to fit things into a very tight timeline, especially because Hallmark will produce like dozens of movies just for their Christmas season. So the filming itself apparently takes just 15 days for a typical Hallmark movie.

JAZZA:  Oh my, that's wild.

ROWAN:  Which means no fancy camera angles, hence why the directing is pretty bland. No kind of pushing to overtime. Very few retakes, apparently. So there's really no room for the actors to do much like figuring out different choices for their character like anything like that. It feels like it's just like, okay, go, go go. And then the editing team often has about two weeks to edit the entire movie. 

JAZZA:  You're joking. 

ROWAN:  Nope. That is what I read a few—there's been a few deep dives actually within probably the last like five years. A bunch of them have been done. And this is kind of what gets talked about. There's a lot of like anonymous insider knowledge and like leaked info, which is all very clandestine. And so yeah, it's—it's been—the— the plot of these movies has been especially the Christmas ones because it's not just— Hallmarks not just for Christmas gang. It's a—it's a whole year round.

JAZZA:  And capitalizing all year round.

ROWAN:  Truly. And so the—here's the plot. This is the—this is the plot. This is the joke, right? You've got a typical city dwelling rat woman, who loves to do business and has to come back to her family town and or some other kind of small town for some reason, where she meets herself, the small town hunky local bakery owner/lumberjack/architect/dad. And at first off, they couldn't be more different, they do—they don't see eye to eye, but then they find they have common ground. And at the end they're kissing. You know, it's this—it's all very cute. You can probably see Jazza, as someone who has watched this film. How that is essentially been superimposed on to this movie as well. This is a— this is not like a it's a gay Hallmark movie, therefore we're going to treat it differently. The main character in this is just the city dwelling rat woman.

JAZZA:  Um, yeah, 100% like the opening scenes of oh, I'm—I'm here and I'm overworked. And I'm married to my job. And I never even think about love. I was just like, I don't know, the familiarity I actually quite enjoyed, to be completely honest. And that's what the appeal is.

ROWAN:  This is what the appeal is. And this is the appeal of a lot of these genres, where things—which I think a lot of people think about when I say these genres, a lot of people think about romance, right? They think the idea of like this set, plot, this set, stock characters, all of this kind of stuff. And I think that there is this element of we know what's going to happen, we—therefore there is a satisfaction and the payoff when that does happen, right? I think gets looked down on I would say a lot, particularly as a more like women oriented stereotypically kind of genre, because you could say the exact same thing about a bunch of male dominated genres of like action movies, of who like murder, who done it type things. Although I would argue that they have actually the strongest like I used to work at a publisher, and in terms of crime and thriller, middle aged women were actually the highest proportion of that audience for book content. But yeah, because of the stereotypes, you—I feel like the idea that it stopped, as you said, it's not necessarily a bad thing. But we—you know, the criticisms of these particular Hallmark movies are not because their stock romances, let's put it that way. So I mentioned before about these interesting little tendrils that come and you sort of hinted at it earlier, when you talked about the idea of banning a gay ad. So for those who don't know, essentially, in December of 2019, the channel stopped airing these ads for a wedding registry, like an online wedding registry, called Solo, that included like two brides kissing, because they had complaints that this was like not family friendly, like promoted same sex marriage, whatever that means. 

JAZZA:  They were actually lobbied by a—by an organization called 1 million.

ROWAN:  They're the worst. Just the worst. 

JAZZA:  Again, they're not nice people. 

ROWAN:  But they did very quickly, like within the same month, like there was a very quick turnaround, reverse that decision and actually reinstated the adverts. And went further than that to say that they were going to work with GLAAD, which is I'm sure everyone who listens to the podcast knows this, is kind of like a media monitoring organization, I guess specifically for LGBTQ plus media to create more inclusive programming. And I think that, that idea of hey, how have they gone from banning these ads to doing a movie like this in like three years, is because of the fact that they had this proactive kind of immediate response to them banning this ad on banning it, but saying we're actually going to work on our programming, that meant that they could be putting out queer content very quickly afterwards. Other than the fact that obviously, they took—take about seven days to write, shoot and edit the thing. But this is not very surprising that there might have been this initial backlash to this ad because it is hugely popular with red states. Yes. 

JAZZA:  Yeah. 

ROWAN:  American conservatives, because the colors are the opposite round in the UK. 

JAZZA:  Yeah.

ROWAN:  So ratings for Hallmark programs, for example, a higher by 50% or more outside of the top 10 TV markets, which are very blue state centered like New York, LA, San Fran, Boston, Chicago, things like that. It's very like known that this is a kind of within, kind of central to right leading America. And a reason for this might be the fact that initially, this was originally a Christian specific set of programming. For a very long time, it was like all religious and then slowly, it's—the company started to have more involvement or be bought by or be part owned by other companies. And so the most significant ones being Hallmark Entertainment, and the Jim Henson Company. And so for a while it was like the Hallmark and Henson like network until it got rebranded as just Hallmark. And so for a while they're like the—the—uh Hallmark and Henson network was what they were called in 1999. And they decreased the religious programming but there was still like, four hours a week, day and more on like Sundays and religious holidays and stuff. And so it's slowly been getting to the point where I don't think anyone associates Hallmark with specifically like Christian worship, kind of like programming. But this idea of it being very right leaning, is still somehow baked it in a way it's still something that people feel a connection to, because of these ideas that go along with thatof like traditional family values, and like steering clear of political themes and stories that go against religion and like all of these things that might be alienating to an audience, he was more right leaning.

JAZZA:  And a critique of the main character very often being from coastal cities where it's more socially liberal. 

ROWAN:  Exactly.

JAZZA:  They go out more, they date more liberally, and like I was watching this, and it felt like I was watching propaganda.

ROWAN:  Hmm. Yes.

JAZZA:  And it felt so much like heteronormative propaganda of oh, yeah, move out of the city, move close to your parents, have a nuclear family, like literally, the—the romantic interest does the sign of a cross on he—on himself, seeing un-ironic— —yeah, it was—it was a very odd watch fom that perspective.

ROWAN:  It's really interesting. And when you think about the fact that this is also that kind of how women are treated within these productions, as well, I feel like there's two very different potential agendas in making women learn the big lesson to be, that they should care more about family and children than they should about their work. And then also, gay people are good when they want to be like us and are very much in the heteronormative sort of like framework. I think both of those are really interesting things ot essentially gotten to, like that end has gotten to by the same means always, like the same storyline is—is kind of pigeon holing both of these demographics of our protagonist that we can see within Hallmark movies. But yeah, so now—now this is—this is kind of what we have. This is one of the very few Hallmark movies that have queer sort of characters in the forefront. A lot of people have been calling this one the first. I think it's like the—the—what do they calling it. 

ROWAN AND JAZZA: It's the first—

JAZZA:  Hallmark produced one. L—gbt leaders is not.

ROWAN:  So a lot of people have been talking about this being their first gay Christmas movie. But actually, they had another one last year with Jonathan Bennett in it called The Christmas House. But it was—it's an ensemble, kind of lead role, right? It's not like—

JAZZA:  Oh right.

ROWAN:  —there's the one lead. So it's like a bunch of—it's like two brothers come back. And it's like the story of the whole family doing their house up for Christmas. And he is in that, and he has like a hus—an existing husband. And so it's like the stories of these different couples, and their trials and tribulations and whatever. So it's not, I would say, it's not technically the first if we're going with like having gay leads at all, but it seems to be the first one where it's like, this is the sole romantic—

JAZZA:  The central plot.

ROWAN:  —rom-com type lead. And it's very interesting considering how many hundreds—no, thousands of these movies have been made, that we're only just getting to this point. And in fact, there was only a lesbian kiss for the first time last year, in any of their media. So—

JAZZA:  Well, that's because lesbians aren't 

ROWAN:  And that is true. We just come out as like a little ghost. Or like uh—

JAZZA:  Exactly.

ROWAN:  —or forg—or forgotten about coworker/friend like in this movie.

JAZZA:  Yeah,yeah,yeah actually she was there—

ROWAN:  Well, she was on it.

JAZZA:  —at the very, very beginning and then—

ROWAN:  She was around—

JAZZA:  —and then never appeared again.

ROWAN:  —and then never again. So shall we dig into the—the movie itself?

JAZZA:  I'd love it. Let's go.

[theme]

JAZZA:  So whenever we do these reviews, we will split the plot into three acts. I open this act with—well, I'm calling the first act Straight People Adopt to (?), because I think I actually genuinely forgot that straight people are— to adopt. You know, what—

ROWAN:  Oh my god.

JAZZA:  — I really appreciated being—being reminded of that by this movie, you know.

ROWAN:  I love it raises awareness, you know what I mean?

JAZZA:  Yeah, we're not just laughing, we're learning.

ROWAN:  I love that. So yeah, I mean, I—I've kind of been deferring to you on the Act names recently. And I'm happy to continue doing that because I feel you come up with some absolute bangers. Unless there's any that I suddenly come to be in a flash of inspiration. So yeah, essentially, act one begins at the beginning with Sam, the gay scrooge, who I—I have written in my notes I predict will learn to love kids. And—

JAZZA:  I mean, don't jump to conclusions, Rowan.

ROWAN:  I want to know.

JAZZA:  You never know what's gonna happen.

ROWAN:  I feel like it would have been a really bold move for this movie to end with him being like, yeah, I really like you. But I just don't—I just don't see myself ever wanting kids. But—

JAZZA:  Yeah.

ROWAN:  —seemed like a nice guy. Ready to never see you again. So.

JAZZA:  Do you remember his name?

ROWAN:  It's Sam, the gay scrooge. 

JAZZA:  No, no, no. Sorry, the name of the guy who he dates at the very beginning. 

ROWAN:  The very beginning, no. 

JAZZA:  So he's on—so we—we open up, he's on a date in New York. We're in New York, obviously. Oh, my God, I'm so stressed. I've been working so hard, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then Dr. Vance DeBlane, it turns out.

ROWAN:  Oh, I didn't 

JAZZA:  And he's like, um, I love this. I—I love this and it was downhill from here. Dr. Vance DeBlane turns up, and he goes I'm sorry, surgery overrun—

ROWAN:  Classic.

JAZZA:  I was busy doing like brain surgery on somebody.

ROWAN:  Classic shit that someone would say if they were pretending to be a doctor. I don't trust this man as far as I can throw him.

JAZZA:  Exactly. And I think he also introduces himself as hello, I'm Dr. Van DeBlane.

ROWAN:  MD.

JAZZA:  Uh, MD. And then he starts talking about ah, I am really looking forward to the holidays because of my little niece. Here's my little niece, and Sam, we get character development, Sam doesn't like kids. And as you said, is he going to learn to love them?

ROWAN:  Oh it's like a niece and nephew, because he's like, oh, there's oh—there's two of them. And I really felt—

JAZZA:  Yeah.

ROWAN:  —an affinity with Sam in that moment, because I to look at children just like a photo of a child. And I'm like, that could be a stock image. Like, I am like, wow, they look like kids. Like to get at least give me a video of them doing—

JAZZA:  Knowing—knowing the budget?

ROWAN:  —something fun.

JAZZA:  Knowing the budget, it probably was. 

ROWAN:  Oh, that's sad. Imagine if it still had like stock photo across it, like the watermark was—was still there. Then we come close to take off the watermark.

JAZZA:  I'd love that. Especia—if—If it was like a Hallmark

ROWAN:  Oh my that'd be great.

JAZZA:  It's like, like in the photo set.

ROWAN:  It's just—it's just a photo of a Hallmark card.

JAZZA:  Yeah.

ROWAN:  Oh my gosh.

JAZZA:  Someone—someone hired us.

ROWAN:  So this movie does something really interesting. And I don't know there is because there were two guys and they got confused. But it gives us the point of view of the other character. And I feel like a lot of the times in rom coms traditionally, it's like you follow one love interest out of the two. So someone I guess tell us if you like Rowan, you fall. That's what they do in every Hallmark movie. But that was very interesting to me, because we also get Jason who's on a phone call to his mom, who literally lives across the street. Incredible. And to really contrast him with Sam, we have him going out of his door and immediately getting into a snowball fight with some—what I thought were random kids on the street, but I—

JAZZA:  Get out of here kids.

ROWAN:  —like nieces and nephews because he's fun and festive and also spontaneous. And at this point, I put Hallmark movies have no personality to the directing, which upon further research does make sense. But yeah, the script is essentially just a series of pieces of exposition. One after another with absolutely zero subtext, or knew what's going on whatsoever. So you literally have like the sister of the gay scrooge, Sam realizing, oh, no honey, the surrogate that we have for our baby has gone into labor two weeks early, because the baby was meant to be born in New Year's, but it is in fact Christmas. Oh no. What we do? We will have to find someone to look after our existing children who are 13 and one younger, and he is not old enough to look after his own. Okay, let's go through everyone we know. We could ask mom except—and they just—they just have this that's the scene. It's just them actually having a discussion which you know, is realistic, but isn't interesting. And so it's just the most like exposition-heavy thing you've ever seen. Which gets I'm going to hit maybe it's just my opinion, gets very boring, very quickly.

ROWAN:  Oh, I—what—I don't know. I feel like we can summarize quite quickly what all of the exposition that happened—

ROWAN:  Yeah maybe they should summarize it very quickly, Jazza,

JAZZA:  —Yeah. Okay, maybe. In like the first— in—in the first like 45 minutes, it's all exposition. So they're gonna hav—the baby is early. They need somebody to— Babysit them. 

ROWAN:  Yeah.

JAZZA:  That's—yeah, the Cis-hets, they need someone to babysit their children. Can we ask the neighbor next door who actually is already helping us out with painting, and we know is really good with kids? No, of course not. Let's ask my stran—not strange, but my—my gay brother who hates children, who's about to go on holiday. And I'm going to call him up and make him cancel his flight or move his flight or whatever because he's meant to be going to Honolulu. The brother says yes because siblings they have like beef with one another. And she's—she's calling in like a favor that she did like 20 years ago or whatever.

ROWAN: Classic. And then hilariously not to spoil anything. But that neighbor who's really good with kids just ends up looking after the kids the entire time anyway. 

JAZZA:  Yeah,

ROWAN:  Almost like he could've just done it to begin with.

JAZZA:  I have a question, Rowan.

ROWAN:  Yeah?

JAZZA:  If you had—if you were in this situation and you are about to get on a flight to Honolulu, and your—your sibling calls up and goes, hi, can you look after the ki— can you not go on the flight and look after the kids? And if you don't, I'll tell mom and dad about that time I covered for you in like, in year six. Would you do it?

ROWAN:  I will say, go fuck yourself. I'd say—

JAZZA:  That—that is what real—

ROWAN:  Yeah.

JAZZA:  That is what real sibling

ROWAN:  I would pick—pick one of the three siblings. I have a beer Elia and or Ben and or Mac. No. I'm simply getting on plane, and hire a babysitter.

JAZZA:  Yeah, maybe pay somebody.

ROWAN:  The end of story. Like, you—there's not really much else to do with this. Also, like, was there a reason they can just take the kids with them? I'm sure they got explained in the exposition that I slept through. But um—

JAZZA:  Is it because of the play? There was a play that's happening.

ROWAN:  Oh, of course, they couldn't miss the play. Which the mom had forgotten about, so maybe that wasn't it? So at this point, I also wanted to ask some questions of you. 

JAZZA:  Oh.

ROWAN:  What's going on with Hallmark and capitalism? Like do they think capitalism is bad? And also like he specifically has a job where he just looks after rich people, it's like, is it like 

JAZZA:  No, no, no. They think—let me tell you.

ROWAN:  Okay.

JAZZA:  They love capitalism but in terms of like small businesses.

ROWAN:  Ohh.

JAZZA:  So they love the idea of like a mom at pop shop—

ROWAN:  Bootstraps. Yeah.

JAZZA:  —or like, yeah, exactly. bootstraps. They hate the idea of somebody like working in tech, working in something that doesn't have intrinsic value like me—like media, like they have critic—

ROWAN:  I thought you were going to say like me. Like yeah, that's a fair. You do—you do work for the machine.

JAZZA:  If you weren't able to merge, don't be my employer. But if you're not able to explain it to like somebody in the 1940s, then it's not a real job in their eyes. 

ROWAN:  Yes. 

JAZZA:  Which is why all of—the all of the love interests are like ski instructors or carpenters.

ROWAN:  Yeah.

JAZZA:  Or teachers.

ROWAN:  It's like that meme that you won't know because it won't reach YouTube shorts yet, because it's on Tiktok.

JAZZA:  Of course. Yeah.

ROWAN:  About—

JAZZA:  What I watch—I watch Tiktok two weeks later on YouTube shorts because I'm an adult.

ROWAN:  Okay, so it might just have reached you, but there's this meme of like, people making less of what would take out a child from like the 1800s. And it's things like the Gangnam Style video, music video, and stuff like that. Like if you were to show it to them, they die. 

JAZZA:  Sure. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

ROWAN:  But it's really funny because I saw one the other day where, the one girl starts with like something like Gangnam Style, and the other one just goes Diptheria. And then it goes.And this girl called, she's like, I think I fundamentally misunderstood the assignment, and you're just going back in the other person's like, I don't know, something like an ice rink that like we've built ourselves or something inside of a mall, and the other ones like cholera, and it just . So I feel like yeah, the answer is like, if it could—if it could take out a child in the 1800s, it's not a job were allowed to happen at Hallmark movie. That's the rule.

JAZZA:  No ice skating, or Korean pop stars. That's what we've decided. This is also the point where the propaganda really gets turned up to 10. And I take with it because we're introduced to an underaged, straight relationship blossoming. And I'm never going to tolerate Christians talking about gay people, grooming children because I'm sorry, this is making me uncomfortable. That child is 13.

ROWAN:  I yeah—I also—that I don't care about these teenagers flirting, if this is a subplot, I will snore.

JAZZA:  It was—it was and I spoil that—

ROWAN:  And I simply did.

JAZZA:  It was a—I simply did.

ROWAN:  Yeah, it was these two like random children who had like a crush on each other. And I don't know whether they were trying to do like a love actually situation, where it's like, oh, if you perform, like we're going to perform in the play together, but somehow, I've actually managed to have like, three times as many plot lines and still make me care more about the teenagers fighting. I simply didn't care in this. And then there's also—basically, this was like really—this movie really hits you over the head with like, two elements. One is like the romance element. But the other one is specifically like babies, children. And so another bit of the romance element is the very short live lesbian coworker/friend that Sam, the gay scrooge has. Who essentially has just gotten engaged, and he doesn't seem to be a very, like a romance scrooge. Like he seems to be excited about the fact that she's getting married, and they have like a tiny joke about the idea of like, oh, did you ever think you'd see the day, and her being like, more than anything, I hope one day you find a guy, and I'm like, wow. Ooh, savage.

JAZZA:  Yeah, you're not going to be able to be happy with unless you're in a heteronormative relationship. 

ROWAN:  Yeah. And although it is very accurate, the lesbians do bully everyone else in the community. We are obviously known for being mean. Me, for example, love to bully Jazza.

JAZZA:  Yeah, case in point, every episode of this podcast.

ROWAN:  Which I know what even are you, a gay, non-binary. They're—they're my favorite ones to—

JAZZA:  That's who we are

ROWAN:  They're my favorite ones to um—

JAZZA:  Yeah.

ROWAN:  Absolutely rip to shreds. So that seemed very accurate to me. And we essentially at this point, also get shu—we don't just get exposition, we get a flashback to show what they're exposing, which is the—the last time you tried to look after the kids. He managed to burn dinner, and have a terrible mustache all at the same time. 

JAZZA:  Yeah. And so he ends up arriving— his own nice doesn't recognize him because he no longer has a mustache. And that really is most—oh no, then they have a conversation later on. But that is the only reason that that child exists in this—in this movie. 

ROWAN:  Yeah.

JAZZA:  We also on the Jason side, who is the hot handyman next door, who is going to make some love children. We get introduced to his brother, who is a widower now and is therefore a single dad. And actually, you know what, I am going to give them some credit of there were lots of different types of families in this movie, and I don't think I've ever really seen that. And I think that's a good thing.

ROWAN:  I love that. Did I miss the bit where it turns out he was a widower, and I thought that he was just

JAZZA:  Probably.

ROWAN:  Yes. Good to know. Good to know the like, what was actually happening in that.

[theme]

JAZZA:  Hello Jazza here for the ad read. We like to talk about our sibling podcasts who are also part of our network at Multitude. And this week, I want to talk to you about Pale Blue Pod. Pale Blue Pod is an astronomy podcast for people who are overwhelmed by the universe, but want to be its friend. Astrophysicist Dr. Moiya McTier and comedian Corrine Caputo, demystify space, one topic at a time, with open eyes, open arms, and open mouths from all of the laughing and jaw dropping that inevitably happens. By the end of each episode, the cosmos will feel a little less oh, it's so scary and a little bit more, oh, it's so cool. There is—having listened to a few episodes that they're pretty new. I love the wonderful authentic nerd energy that just runs through this podcast, like a sticker rock. And it's gonna have you genuinely smiling like a goofball in commuting to work or doing whatever you do to distract yourself from the earth that we are traveling on through space. There are new episodes every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts. So go check them out, give them some love. We are also continuing to be supported with sponsorship by Squarespace who can help you to buy a domain and create a website. There are many, many people across the internet who want you to use their code. I just ask that you consider us the next time that you buy a website or domain. We personally use Squarespace as a way to be able to create our own Queer Movie Podcast website. And it gives us great access to stuff like analytics, we have access to email campaigns, and we're able to connect all of our social media, our Instagram, and our Twitter all in one place. So yeah, use them the next time you're thinking about making one of these purchases. Just go to squarespace.com/queermovie. And when you're set up to make all your digital dreams come true. Then you can use our code Queer Movie, and save 10 percentage points off of your first purchase of a website or domain. Remember to go to squarespace.com/queermovie. This episode were also sponsored by brilliant.org. Why not balance out the outstanding media analysis that we do on Q and P by using brilliant to expand your horizons into the fields of maths, science, and technology? Rowan in last week's ad read talked about gays not being good at maths. And I don't want to turn this into an inter-ad-read war. But we literally have Alan Turing on the 50-pound note, who is a gay man who helped to crack the Enigma code in World War Two, is a renowned mathematician. We can do maths, and we have fantastic queers who do maths, Rowan. And so I want all of you to feel empowered to do so. Not feeling like you have to blaze your own trail. At brilliant.org they have thousands of lessons and keep adding new ones each month. So the wealth of knowledge you're feeding from is constantly replenished. Brilliant can help you bring out your inner cheering. But let's start with baby steps. Maybe give yourself an introduction to algebra or a classical algorithm and fundamentals. Their bite-size classes can take you from beginner to advanced in no time. To get started for free visit brilliant.org/queermovie or click on the link in the description. The first 200 of you to do so, will get 20% off brilliant annual premium subscription. Very fancy, very nice. We endorse. Now, back with the show.

[theme]

ROWAN:  I at this point I think jumped into my act two, but I don't know whether you had— where you'd play stack two for you.

JAZZA:  Yeah, act two does appear around here, and my naming for act two is Thus. This movie shows the reality of the fear of being queer moving out to the suburbs, reducing your dating pool, and settling for somebody for whom you have zero chemistry.

ROWAN:  Incredible and accurate. I should point out around you know, who knows when act one and act two happens somewhere. I didn't actually fall asleep during this, but I think maybe my brain shut down, but somewhere in there, they also met by doing a classic fall into each other's arms.

JAZZA:  Of course. They do this a couple of times at this movie as well. 

ROWAN:  Oh god. Just the worst.

JAZZA:  No wrestling though. 

ROWAN:  I don't—I make a comment about this later Jazza. It's— essentially this just—it becomes very apparent at this point that everyone else just seems to be acting in one of the Hallmarks movies that I like not necessarily literally Hallmark movies, but the kind of movies that are of this genre that are a bit more serious, in that they may be there is like, an actual like moment the you're like, oh god that got me in a way. Our main man, Sam, however, is not here, he's in Dr. Seuss's cat in the hat. He's in a slapstick comedy. He's really in a totally different movie in terms of like, there's like a record scratch when he finds out he need to babysit the kid.

JAZZA:  Oh my god, the record scratch.

ROWAN: I gotta babysit some kids? No way! It's really frustrating because there's actually quite a few random like sound effects, which are not part of the world he's in that happened around him. And it—he's simply not funny enough to earn them. Uh, it's my—it's my opinion.

JAZZA:  Aw.

ROWAN:  You need to earn a record scratch in my book. But yeah, so into—into Act Two, essentially, it's three days until Christmas. He is now looking after the kids. And it's just a series of him being like, oh, crazy. This kid has a crush and I got to deal with it. And he's been in a play or something. This one's vegan now. Oh my god.

ROWAN:  Can I just before we dive into this really fascinating part of the movie, do you remember how Sam cottoned on to the fact that Jason is gay?

ROWAN:  Is it because he hugged—he hugged a man? 

JAZZA:  No, it's ha—that—that comes that comes later, that's his ex.

ROWAN:  Oh, okay.

JAZZA:  Jason says oh, I really like your—and his name's the brand of the loafer. 

ROWAN:  Ah.

JAZZA:  That he's wearing.

ROWAN:  I see.

JAZZA:  And Sam goes, hey, how do you know what type of loafers these are? And then Jason gives a knowing look, and that's how we know he's gay.

ROWAN:  Oh, Incredible. I mean, they both had truly a horrendous fashion sent stringless maybe.

JAZZA:  Really terrible. 

ROWAN:  Really bad. 

JAZZA:  Really terrible.

ROWAN:  So that—

JAZZA:  Nothing fit in.

ROWAN:  —that doesn't really make sense logically, within the internal logic of the film that they've created. But there we go.

JAZZA:  We al—we also at this point, get the thank God the only mean goes with this.

ROWAN:  Oh, God.

JAZZA:  Where a Sam is woken up by a dog licking his face, and he goes stops trying to make fetch happen.

ROWAN:  I—Yeah

JAZZA:  And everyone died of

ROWAN:  So much. 

JAZZA:  Which is why it is silent.

ROWAN:  There's just a series of things in this which were like if they had just had like—if they had the money to hire some kind of consultant on here for like continuity, for example, they whisked dry flour for quite a long time during one scene, which was kind of fun. And then he goes, what do we put in next, and the guy goes flour and then he just put flour into the bowl of flour,  you can whisk it and I found that incredible. But basically like this is where the oh, here's the plot happens. Because there is a lot of like subplots that essentially amount to very little, but the main—the main plot—plot is the idea of like, hey, I want to be a better uncle to look after these kids. You know how to Uncle because you have about a thousand nephews and nieces and nibblings.

JAZZA:  Yes.

ROWAN:  Can you be my uncle's consultant, I will pay you money to do this. And Jason, I guess is like, I love money and 

JAZZA:  Capitalism. You can explain this to somebody in the 1800s.

ROWAN:  Exactly. He's like that is—that is my job now, Uncle consultant. That seems like the kind of—everyone was a bloody light had a—had a ward in the Edwardian times. So this makes a total sense.

JAZZA:  Yeah.

ROWAN: And so this is kind of the idea of like, hey, you're hanging around and teaching me how to be a good uncle. And then they go and do a bunch of Christmas stuff together. They go to the Christmas fair—

JAZZA:  Yeah.

ROWAN:  That's very obvious it's in summer because it is very sunny, and the snow is very sparse, and there's entirely dry ground between all of the bits of snow because no one has been trailing wet footprints across—

JAZZA:  Yeah.

ROWAN:  —beautiful set dressing. Stunning. And there's also the line. You're spending Christmas in Hawaii by yourself with such judgment from Jason. And I'm like, yeah, and it sounds like a dream, Jason. Don't kill Sam’s dreams, sir.

JAZZA:  So did you get from Jason the slight, I want to murder you in way your skin vibes? 

ROWAN:  Oh, yeah. 

JAZZA:  There were a couple of moments. So there's a bit where Sam goes in—because Jason has been helping Sam's sister to paint the new nursery for the baby that's coming. And Sam goes in and—and watches Jason do some of this painting. And I don't know what it is about the delivery, but it's very, I flavor beans and a nice Chianti. Like it's like—

ROWAN:  Chianti.

JAZZA:  —I always find—Chianti. I always find painting to be soothing. And I don't know what it was about that delivery. I was just like, run, run a mile.

ROWAN:  I would really love it If someone in the audience could recap this movie as a trailer for a horror movie. I feel like it will be pretty fun. Because that definitely that film like it has potential. But yeah, essentially, I think it's just there's a certain type of blank blandness that will give way to spookiness if you let it. And I think this unsettling blank page of a man was really, really giving that spookiness that you picked up on Jazza. I—I fully agree. 

JAZZA:  Yeah. 100%. So they start, they keep on, kind of like having slight brush moments. So Jason is trying to teach them how to cook, or how you try and bond with your nephews. I don't know. The main beep like I feel like, is Sam trying to teach his nephew how to perform in the Christmas play? And how to speak with more confidence, which actually I did quite like those scenes. I thought they were kind of sweet. Eventually, he wakes up one morning. I honestly I think I bugged up my notes because there's I feel like there's a big gap of like things that must have happened, but it just didn't write anything down.

ROWAN:  Nothing was important. Here's—here's what—where—where did you— where is  you—where have you jumped to, and I can fill you in on the unimportant stuff that happen.

JAZZA:  I've gone from—so they're wrapping Christmas presents. Oh, hilarious trying wrap a scooter? Yeah.

ROWAN:  Shall I tell you what happened before they tried to wrap the presents? 

JAZZA:  Yes, go on.

ROWAN:  I took extensive notes, apparently. But who knows why. His slow motion fell into a Christmas Tree to avoid the dog and then acted like it was the heaviest thing in the world and was crushing him. Two other people took it off with zero difficulties. 

JAZZA:  Exactly.

ROWAN:  They went on the light walk, where they looked at all of the lights on the Christmas Trees in the neighborhood, which is when he says, hey, this was my ex. I—I'm not into him anymore. 

JAZZA:  Yeah.

ROWAN:  I'm just a bit jealous because I always wanted to kind of when I grow—when I grew up to like get married and be a dad. And at that point, I wrote down, huh interesting. Because he wouldn't have been able to get married, or potentially even adopt when he was growing up at this age. And then I was like, interesting missing out on like political angst, seems quite Hallmark. We will find out later that this does actually come back and get commented on at the end, however, which is interesting. And he reveals that he wants to actually adopt , he doesn't want to wait till he's in a relationship. So he wants to be a dad that badly. Then the baby's been born. And my notes are just, we're spending way too much time with these heterosexuals. didn't need to be in there. We didn't need to keep checking back on these people.

JAZZA:  Oh, also the dad gets introduced. And I don't know why he's in this movie. 

ROWAN:  Oh, yeah. 

JAZZA:  Is it just—is it just to show that grandparents should also be around? It's the propaganda again, isn't it?

ROWAN:  Yeah cause it's like, he does this whole thing. 

JAZZA:  Yeah.

ROWAN:  this whole thing where it's like, oh, it's not just me. He's going to Hawaii like my parents aren't together. And like, my dad lives in a cabin or whatever. Like, there's a lot of this element—

JAZZA:  Sure.

ROWAN:  —of, we're not a real family 'cause we're not together at Christmas. So they had to get back together. I also have a line which does talk back to what you said about they're not fist fighting. Because for those who aren't aware, me and Jazza have noticed a very interesting trend were, when they

JAZZA:  It's a very interesting trend, yeah.

ROWAN:  Where they want to make gay guys make out in movies, they often make the gay guys just wrestle each other on the ground first, like so often.

JAZZA:  And I will say that's—that is what a lot of my teenage romance—

ROWAN:  That's valid.

JAZZA:  —started as, so yeah it's valid. You know, it's a trope, but it's a valid trope.

ROWAN:  That's based on true events, from Jazza:'s life.

JAZZA:  I actually consulted on all of those movies. That's the problem. 

ROWAN:  And then my notes for what happened when I really, really felt that imagery come to the fore for me, was when Sam goes can I help with very dramatic music as they make Santa waffles? And then in brackets just fight then fuck, I can't take this lack of chemistry.

JAZZA:  Weird.

ROWAN:  And then we get to them wrapping Christmas presents together. So as you can tell very little of consequence happened. You miss nothing, Jazza.

JAZZA:  Yeah. Okay. Great. I'm very happy about that. So they wrap Christmas presents. Ooh, lol, hilarious. Great. At some point, Jason gives Sam a present. So it's like a shitty Christmas jumper that says nice. Great. Santa is giving me presents.

ROWAN:  Irony.

JAZZA:  And then—and then under—because we've been told Sam's not nice. And then underneath that, he's got the genuine present, which is, it's just a jumper. And Sam has an incredibly intense emotional reaction to the jumper. And he goes, it's perfect. And I'm like, you haven't spoken about your love of jumpers up into this point. All he's done and said, I thought this hella would look nice on you, which I guess would make you think oh, he's thought about it. But this isn't—the emotional reaction to this does not marry up with what has just happened here.

ROWAN:  Yes. Essentially, there's been no chemistry. There's been no real buildup of the relationship. And then so completely unearned. They have a moment where they hold hands and then they like, have to take their hand away because it's like, oh, no, we held hands. We couldn't possibly. And I really feel like I need to point out to these Hallmark filmmakers, just because Sam cannot talk to children, it doesn't mean he wants them. That's not how that works. Just because he can make some waffles doesn't mean you suddenly like wait, children. I've I this whole time. And then I also put at this point, okay, the baby is still alive and we have to see it for some reason, which I guess was about the fact we had flashback once more to this baby, that the straight couple are adopting.

JAZZA:  But did you notice how little engagement with said baby? I don't know if you've been around like newborn babies, but you literally have to be attentive to them all of the time. And they just put this—

ROWAN:  I've watched what you do.

JAZZA:  I literally—They just put this baby do—this baby doesn't cry once. This baby just gets put down, and they just kind of like nobody interacts with it. Nobody picks it up. Nobody kind of like confronts it. It's a—it's very, it's very odd.

ROWAN:  Jazza, I have a theory. 

JAZZA:  Oh no.

ROWAN:  We never see the woman who goes into labor. We never see the person who gives birth to this child.

JAZZA:  No, we don't. Which I also thought was a bit odd. Yeah. 

ROWAN:  What if it's a reborn? 

JAZZA:  What's a reborn?

ROWAN:  Oh, Jazza. I feel so happy for you that you don't know about this. So basically, it's— it's hyper-realistic dolls.

JAZZA:  Oh, no. 

ROWAN:  What if they have just bought a hyperrealistic doll in this whole thing? And the reason why the youngest girl is like, I don't like that my parents have left me at Christmas. It's because she knows they're going to pick up a doll. And all of this is—and so that's the reason why they aren't checking on this baby. It's because it doesn't need feeding. It doesn't eat. It's literally just a lifeless doll.

JAZZA:  It is the ultimate realization that is inevitably going to happen in our culture when a straight couple gets so boring that they need to spice up their life somehow. And so they have a kid, this allows you to have a kid I guess. And not actually, you know, do the thing. 

ROWAN:  Yeah. So I—you know what, until someone from the movie calls me up directly on the landline that I don't have, and tells me that that's wrong. That's—that's true now.

JAZZA:  Yeah, guilty until proven innocent. It's true. 

ROWAN:  Exactly.

[theme]

ROWAN:  So it's at this point after we've had like this weird Christmas jumper exchange, and Sam getting weirdly emotional about this guy that he knows, he isn't compatible with. I moved into act three. I don't know if you—you'd moved to act three at this point.

JAZZA:  Yes. So this is—because this is the point where we have the closest thing to a party. And it is for me the Christmas Play.

ROWAN:  Yeah. The play and it's aftermath.

JAZZA:  Yeah, the (Christmas Play) party, and its aftermath.

ROWAN:  Stunning. Yes.

JAZZA:  We made it work. We made it work. This play is one of the worst attended plays that I've ever seen in a movie.

ROWAN:  In a movie, not in real life. Because plays in real life are often very badly attended. 

JAZZA:  Often very badly attended uh—

ROWAN:  Again, just—their attention to detail to reality in this movie is incredible.

JAZZA:  I've been to a bit of a  I have been one of three people in an audience before. And this isn't not a good play surprise. Nobody is dressed up. No one's put any effort into this play. They're just some kids are the—some of the kids are wearing scarves and like where's wally hat.

ROWAN:  Is the play a metaphor for this movie?

JAZZA:  I hope so.

ROWAN:  Maybe.

JAZZA:  And Sam and Jason teamed up. They're like, high five. Yeah, we're now like the tech hunkles. And because they bought a camera, because the parents can't watch them play. And they brought a backup, and like yeah, backup, and now they're, I guess it team.

ROWAN:  Stunning. Couldn't—couldn't just like use their phones or anything. They had to be really inconvenient to get some tripods out. 

JAZZA:  Oh, yeah. Literally whole—whole shebang. So they—we get to Christmas Eve. And the point where I thought Jason was going to kill Sam, happens. So Jason says we're going to turn off all of the lights. Because we used to turn off all of the lights and just kind of like be present. Which, you know, fine. People have into that mindfulness stuff. They turn off the lights, they look at the tree, they kind of start holding hands, and then Jason starts humming Silent Night. And I swear if I—if he had brought out a knife, and just stabbed Sam to death at this point.  I actually would have preferred that. I would have preferred it in the movie, as a movie. 

ROWAN:  Shocking twist ending on the Hallmark's first gay Christmas movie. 

JAZZA:  Hallmark's first gay, Christmas Horror movie.

ROWAN:  They lost full sense of security. And then they went straight for the homicidal homosexual. Yeah, that was just like the line in that whole section, which is clearly meant to be like, oh, the sweet, like little quiet moment of romance, where he's like the anticipation. So much is about to happen. Oh, I love Christmas in the nighttime. I wish there was any chemistry to make that line worth it. But there's simply not.

JAZZA:  I have a question. Not so much for you. But for the people who are making these—these quick Christmas movies. Because we have a similar problem with Single All The Way last year, where it felt like there was zero chemistry with the couple that ended up getting together. 

ROWAN:  Yeah. 

JAZZA:  And this has happened now. Now, from my experience, gay men are fantastic at pretending that they have chemistry. The whole Grindr just floated on the New York Stock Exchange. If gay men had a problem pretending to have chemistry with strangers that they've just met, Grindr would not be the success that it is today. So how have they managed to do castings of these, these two big kind of like queer holiday movies, and found people that just don't have any of that togetherness? 

ROWAN:  So I think a big part of the—of this is, is exactly what I mentioned before about the fact that the two leads seem to be in very different vibes of movie. And there is a moment, there is a brief second of a moment, which I think is almost right at the end. I think it might be just after they've kissed. And you see both of them. And they both have the same kind of smile on their face, which is quite like, this is so specific, but it's—it's not that one of the characters is like overly goofy bug-eyed, like Hollywood smile, and the other ones doing a soft, sweet Hallmark movie smile. They both genuinely are just smiling. And they're—and it's like, they have a little inside joke together and whatever. And then that one second of the movie, I was like, that's what they needed to have been doing this entire time. They needed to have been making it so that both of them are on the exact same wavelength with it. So when they look at each other, and you're meant to see that there's some kind of connection, there is a genuine moment where they're like, they have a secret smile with each other, or they're having like an eye-roll with each other. Or there's some kind of like levity, humor, tension to it, where they both are on the same wavelength with what that vibe and energy is. And I think the big problem for me was, you can never have chemistry, where you have characters who were feel like they are so completely in a different vibe of movie, it's just not going to work. Because you can never get them to a place where they genuinely feel like they are connecting in that moment. Because there is such performativity to it. At least for me, that's my two cents on that—on this issue, because you're right, it shouldn't have been that difficult to happen. 

JAZZA:  Yeah, I think that was very good. And they should probably hire you. So Sam tries to give Jason the money that they agreed on. But we later find out that Jason doesn't want his money. Why are you just paying me, I'm not a common uh—

ROWAN:  Poor?

JAZZA:  — a common whore.

ROWAN:  Even though it's almost like that was the agreement that they came to. And if he had just not given him any money, then he would be like, my dude, I literally did all of this for the promise of money. And you've given me absolutely, you've been like, okay, bye. I'm going to Hawaii now.

JAZZA:  And so Sam has decided not to go to Hawaii, and instead spend Christmas with his families.

JAZZA:  Christmas, this morning. The kids get to meet their new little sister, and they turn around and just go, baby. So that's— so that's fun. 

ROWAN:  Yep. 

JAZZA:  They've named the kid after her. After Sam as well. It's called Angelica Samantha. So that's sweet. And the dad then triggers his gay son by suggesting pancakes, because that's what Jason taught Sam how to make. And then he goes into the other room to have a breakdown of a pancake. 

ROWAN:  It's really funny because I actually so—I only saw this movie, which is maybe right before we recorded, so it was nice and fresh in my mind. And also because I forgot before then to do it, which is very me. But I had seen someone had done a Tiktok where they were like, if you don't know the context for this scene, this is completely unhinged and hilarious. I didn't realize that scene was from this movie. So the scene is just an old man saying, I'd love some pancakes. And then it pan. It just cuts to a man looking at him. Who immediately—

JAZZA:  How does it pan to a man?

ROWAN:  —immediately it cuts—it doesn't—it doesn't pancake to a man. Unfortunately, it is cuts to a man who has a split second of hearing what he's just said. And in his face crumples. And then he runs away crying. And I was like, I remember watching that Tiktok and being like, God, I guess I'll never know what the context of that was. And then, to my surprise, it turns up in this movie, almost hysterical nonetheless, even with context. And it is at this point where they do actually bring up that political angst option that I had talked about earlier, which was the idea of like, this man just casually says like, oh, yeah right,  I'd always dreamt of like getting married and being a dad when I grew up. And I was like, huh, but did you though, like that feels like that's something more complex there? And they did it at the end instead, but with the other character with Sam, but it kind of became this like reasoning of like, oh, the only reason why I said I didn't want kids, and a husband and stuff was because I just hadn't really realized I could. But now I do. Of course, I want kids, uh I'm so silly.

JAZZA:  I—I understand your cynical reading of it.

ROWAN:  I did also think it was very pleased Jazza, give the lesson a core reading. So I do also think that what you're about to say, I'm sure it's also very correct. And I probably was also feeling that under the surface.

JAZZA:  Yeah, yeah, yeah of course. Rowan does have some feelings.

ROWAN:  Allegedly.

JAZZA:  I, I loved this. I—I would just clip this part of the movie as kind of like a way of especially for gays of my generation. I don't think we've really—because, because so much has changed in our lifetime, I don't think we really helped me realize how much we were affected by the environment that we were raised in, in our formative years. where we didn't have the option. It was like, I mean, that equal age of consent when we were younger. We didn't have protections in law, and we couldn't do the heteronormative things like get married and adopt children if we wanted to. And I think that that is a subconscious psychological thing that not many people around my age, have necessarily thought about that, that is something that has really—those restrictions, when we were growing up in what a queer person would be able to do, and what they could be, have really affected how we think about what it is possible for us to be when we craft our own lives, and we create our own worlds when we come to maturity. And we choose to kind of like building an adult life for ourself. And I've never—I don't think I've ever seen a movie address that phenomenon. So head on. And I don't think it was the most articulate way of talking about it. And yes, it did have first heteronormative undertones of whoa, oh, if only I had known, I could have also had a partner and children, then, of course, I would have chosen it. I think that does exist in this clip. But I think it explains that phenomenon of what people my age went through, and I really appreciated that.

ROWAN:  I—I also do agree with that. Like I—I am very aware of the fact that like you say your age, as we are not the same fucking age, Jazza.

JAZZA:  I definit—I feel like I'm older, wiser,

ROWAN:  A boomer yeah—

JAZZA:  You know.

ROWAN:  We understand.

JAZZA:  Exactly.

ROWAN:  I essentially was like, I was—I was doing the like, you know, being—being harsh on it, to begin with, as is my role in this podcast, I've decided that. But I also was like, for what this movie was. I was like, yeah, fair, this is—they were never gonna go more than this. Like this was what it was. And I was surprised that they did actually mention it because I fully thought they were gonna go completely like on angsty, such political angst in particular. I wish there had been like, more—although, say I'm saying this, but I'm also like, this movie was just never gonna be able to pull that off. But I do think there is a world in which has a movie where they do have any kind of subtext or ceding to the idea of this is something that he does one, but he doesn't quite realize that he can have it or isn't ready to make that step, or he—it doesn't feel like what everyone else talks about, when they talk about it being like, oh, I was imagining my wedding dress when I was a kid. And that idea of like, oh, if I haven't wanted something since the beginning of my life, or haven't been planning for it forever, then maybe I didn't really want it enough. Am I wanting it for other people? Like there's a lot of complexities in that. And I really wish there had been like, any subtexts with the idea that like, oh, he does actually want this. And not just the thing where he's adamant that he doesn't, even when he's seen like, his best friend who is a lesbian get to have it and stuff. And even then he's not like, yeah, I didn't think it would happen not because, you know, because we're gay. But at the beginning, he talks about not thinking what happened because you know, we're we don't do romance or stew. Hahaha. There was some elements or some moments where I was like, oh, this could have been seeded in a really interesting way. But then I suddenly remembered that I had clocked and scrolled back to you, because I couldn't quite place what the actor was going for, in that moment, where we didn't get this political angsty option before, where at the Christmas market, he says about, oh, I've always wanted this. And there's this really weird look that the actor gives. And now I'm like, what's he trying to do? Like, ah, like, oh, but instead of just was like an awkward side eye, where he's like, okay, weirdo. Okay, ooh, you are freak.

JAZZA:  Well, there's it. As we said, we've tight turnarounds there's only take. 

ROWAN:  Truly. So I'm, like, I'm saying this stuff. I'm so aware of the fact that like, this is not a world in which that could actually happen. But I do. But in terms of you saying that this isn't like an experience you've necessarily seen played out. I really—I do want to see that. Because I feel that really hard. And I also think as well, there's like, such a small age difference between us and someone, even like eight years younger than us, and he's younger than us. But they have not had that same experience as us. 

JAZZA:  Yeah, yeah.

ROWAN:  Even as we're getting older, and they are essentially our peers now, a lot of these people. Like, it's—it's  like, oh, there is a fundamental difference in how we were raised. Because you were—you don't ever remember there being a time when you weren't legally equal in this country. Like that's not a thing you have to experience—

JAZZA:  Yeah.

ROWAN:  —and understand, and like be going into the world of adulthood knowing that, that was or really believing that, that was never going to happen. Like I found a I think was like a Facebook post that your memory thing of you know, and it says like, oh, you know, 10 years ago, this was something you posted. And I think it was like a year like a—one of those classics like, hey, copy and paste this and answer the questions. And one of the things of like, what do you think will happen in five years? Where are you be in five years? And I think I put like, I doubt it will happen, but like maybe I'll be up to get married, is like one of the options. And I look back at that I was like, oh, fuck yeah, I feel like maybe a lot of us have just sort of pushed that particular trauma like down like, oh, we don't have to deal with that anymore.

JAZZA:  Yeah, 100%.

ROWAN:  But I would love to—I—I agree with you like I would really, really love to see a movie that had a budget behind it, that had like a real consideration of the script and time for actors to actually, act more than one take.

JAZZA:  Sure.

ROWAN:  Take on something like this in a way, could be really interesting.

JAZZA:  A little bit of investment. Because I—yeah, I really, really appreciated them like addressing

ROWAN:  Yeah.

JAZZA:  So then that touching scene happens then they get together, the end. 

ROWAN:  Yeah, that's literally it. 

JAZZA:  Shall we review this movie, give it the ratings?

ROWAN:  Yeah, go on. 

JAZZA:  Cool.

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JAZZA:  Here with the Queer Movie Podcast, we have a rating system where we award a movie that we talked about up to six of the original six colored bars of the rainbow flag. They are red for life. Orange for healing, yellow for sunlight, green for nature, blue for harmony and purple for spirit. Rowan?

ROWAN:  Uhh.

JAZZA:  How—how many bars are you gonna give in and which colors? 

ROWAN:  It's like one, maybe? I on this first movie. And you know what, I'm gonna go with spirit. 

JAZZA:  Uh-huh.

ROWAN:  Just for that last final attempt at doing something. They got that—they had that spirit, the Christmas spirit. You know? I think that's what I'm gonna go with. It was just this wasn't even like I could hate watch it. Like it was fundamentally just like very boring to me. And this is also from someone like I—I'm sure I've mentioned this on the podcast before. I'm a fan fiction bitch. I—It's not that I don't do or rom-com or whatever. Like I'm an asexual, fanfiction bitch. So everything I'm reading is like the opposite of what people think fanfiction is, when they're like, the hardcore sex happens. I'm like, I just want people to, to fall in love and like all these misunderstandings to be cleared up la la la. So I was primed to be interested in this shit. But it just wasn't it. There was like so many random subplots that didn't go anywhere. There was just— I didn't feel the chemistry. It was frustrating to me. So yeah, sadly, it's a one for me. Jazza, how about you?

JAZZA: Yeah, I—I want to give it to more than one. And I've just sat here looking at the six bars of the rainbow flag and their meanings, and being like, is there anything else I can give it? And I don't think that is.

ROWAN:  Actually, you know, you could do, you could give it yellow for sun because of the fact that was clearly filmed in the summer months, when the sun was in very bright for a winter. For a winter, so amazing.

JAZZA:  No, I'm only going to give it one. I don't think it deserves it. I loved some of the campiness of the main character. And I loved—I liked that end, kind of like political commentary. I— and I liked the fact that you could probably cut this movie into like a trailer for a horror movie. And I really want somebody to do that. But otherwise, it's—it's—this is not the one and it is not for me.

ROWAN:  Yeah. Do you know what I—actually didn't know what I loved? I love that this movie exists in theory. I love that there's a Hallmark movie with a gay lead. That's what I'll say about it. That's the best thing I think it's got going for it.

JAZZA:  It's still only getting one sto—one

ROWAN:  One ball for us.

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JAZZA:  Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoy these episodes, then we ask that you consider supporting us on Patreon. As a patron, you can join the Queer Movie Club, where we do watch along in our Discord each month. But that is only the bare minimum of what you can get. At high levels, you can also get our movie recommendations and a monthly newsletter with a curation of all of the gay shit we found on the internet. 

ROWAN:  So thank you once again to Jennifer and Toby for supporting us at the highest tier on Patreon. We adore you. You're the best. Thank you very much for making this happen. This absolute chaos. The Queer Movie Podcast is edited by Julia Schifini. We're also part of Multitude Productions. So make sure you check out all of that other awesome podcasts full of both fun and frivolity.

JAZZA:  Make sure you follow and subscribe to this podcast, so that you are primed for our next episode. Happy holidays.

ROWAN:  Oh yeah, it's the holidays. That's why we did a Christmas related film. This is why we suffered in this way. To watch the one Christmas related gay film from this year. I remember now. Good to know.

JAZZA:  Bloody hell. Okay, let's go.

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