Sunday Sanctuary with Petra Bagust

Sunday Sanctuary has teamed up with the Makers and Mystics podcast to bring you this episode on reclaiming wonder! Stephen Roach from Makers and Mystics is Petra's guest on this episode of Sunday Sanctuary as they explore the different ways that noticing the small wonders of the world can re-open, restore and change lives. Petra and Stephen look at finding wonder largely through the lens of creativity, but no matter how creative you're feeling today, this episode is a calm, wonder-chasing sanctuary for you. 

For those of you who want to delve deeper into Petra and Stephen's conversation, an extended cut will appear in the Makers and Mystics podcast feed on November 13th. For any Makers and Mystics listeners who have come to Sunday Sanctuary, kia ora/hello! It's great to have you here.

Haere mai! (Welcome/Come along!)

Sacred texts:

• 'The mystery of tea' scene from the film After Yang (a great film, especially for fans of cosy sci-fi which looks at themes of memory and family)
• 'The Summer Day' poem by Mary Oliver (read by Mary Oliver at The 92nd St Y)

Music:

• Weird Little Birthday Girl by Happyness (played during intro)
• Stormy by Gabor Szabo (played to end the first part of Stephen's conversation)
• Red Lit Room by Holly Arrowsmith
• Space is the Place by Ezra Collective (played during Community Life)
• The Sea Has Spoken by Songs of Water (This is Stephen's band! Played during the contemplative moment)
• Summer's End by Julie Byrne (played during communion)
• Movement 6 and Movement 7 by Floating Points, Pharoah Sanders and the London Symphony Orchestra
• Slider (Lorenzo Saxophone Dub) by This Is The Kit (played at the end of Stephen's conversation)
• Vanity by Mica Levi (played during the benediction)

Considering the number of people who are constantly chasing after contentment, you'd think someone would have found a tried and true formula by now, right? Unfortunately, it seems we need to keep looking, if such a formula even exists (which after making this episode of Sunday Sanctuary seems increasingly unlikely).

Trusting in a comment he once heard that it's more interesting to hear from someone still working it out as opposed to someone on the other side, producer Sam steps forward to share some of his wrestle with contentment. Sam introduces Petra to his friend Cole and the two have a conversation about finding contentment in the midst of their very different lives.

Later on, Petra talks with Rev. Spanky Moore about what he has learnt and noticed about contentment. Spanky charts his journey from playing in a punk band and through his radio career before landing up as an Anglican priest and tells Petra about one life-changing conversation he had at age 25. 

Haere mai!

Sacred texts:

• 'The Dude abides' scene from The Big Lebowski
• 'Alleyway conversation' scene from Before Sunrise (an incredible film!)

Music:

• Take Five by Dave Brubeck (played during Sam's boat story)
• East Cape by Headland (played during Sam's boat story)
• Le Petits Gris by Khruangbin (played during Sam and Cole's conversation)
• Sun Rays Like Stilits by Tommy Geurrero (played at the end of Cole's conversation)
• Actually by Rozi Plain
• (Can't Get No) Satisfaction by The Rolling Stones (played during communion)
• Getting to Me by Caroline Rose
• Anchin Kfu Ayinkash by Hailu Mergia and the Dhalak Band (played at the end of Spanky's conversation)
• memory as miniatures by Rachika Nayar (played during the benediction)

For a practice with a long history in legal and religious settings, on this episode of Sunday Sanctuary, Petra Bagust goes looking for the benefits of bringing confession into more regular, everyday use. What difference would it make to more regularly put words to what is actually going on for us? Or as Petra puts it, "making our insides match our outsides."

Come along as Petra talks to Grace McArthur for our reccuring segment, Atlas of the Heart. Grace and Petra unpack the wisdom from Brené Brown's book of the same name, this time having a look at the chapter on vulnerability

Later on in the episode, Petra talks to Dr Michael Frost. Michael started out in the field of biomedical science before he change tack to get a PhD in theology. Michael also leads a small church in Tāmaki Makaurau/Auckland called Edge and hosts the podcast In the Shift.

Sacred texts:

• 20 priests clip from the film Spotlight (not always an easy watch but highly recommended viewing)

Music:

• I Think I Love You by The Partridge Family (played during the intro)
• Come Live with Me by Dorothy Ashby (played at the end of Grace's interview)
• Confessions by Usher
• Doing the Wrong Thing by Kaki King (played during communion. You might recognise this song from the movie Into the Wild)
• Sensory Memory by Jen Cloher
• Just Saying by Jamie xx (played during Michael's interview)
• Instrumental by The Fuzzy Robes (played during the benediction)

What do you do to feel most connected with God? One way that many of us grew up with is the idea of 'quiet time' where you physically sit still and quiet. While there is still value in this practice (just ask friend of the show Strahan Coleman), this is something that many struggled with growing up and, in actual fact, there are many ways to connect with God.

Join Petra Bagust in this special episode recorded live in the Coromadel at the Love It Media staff retreat. Petra first talks to senior producer, Josh Couch, who breaks down the nine different paths of connection as identified by Gary Thomas in his book Sacred Pathways.

After some time to think, Petra then hears from different members of the Love It Media staff team, who offer a mix of funny and poignant stories about the different ways they feel connected to God. To wrap it all up, Sunday Sanctuary's very own Rev Frank Ritchie leads communion (which you're welcome to join in with from home) and Petra finishes off with another benediction from Kate Bowler and Jessica Ritchie. Join us!

Sacred Texts:

• Sacred Pathways by Gary Thomas
• C. S. Lewis quote from his book Miracles

Music:

• Pine Trees by Mary Lattimore (played at end of Josh's interview)
• Make that Connection by Tom Petty
• Frolic by Jake Xerxes Fussell (played during the time for contemplation)
• Blue in Green by Miles Davis (played during communion)
• Collect for Midday by The Fuzzy Robes
• Summer's End by Julie Byrne (played to end the episode)

Ka mua, ka muri. To walk into the future facing backwards. What exactly does that mean? If you let your imagination explore that idea for a second you might start to get an idea. How do we, specifically pākehā New Zealanders, move into the future with an eye on our history, personal, national, religious etc, to help guide our actions. What implications does this have for how we live?

Join Petra Bagust in this episode as she explores the whakatauki of ka mua, ka muri. Petra's first guest is Dr Alistair Reese. Alistair gave the dawn service kauhau/sermon at Waitangi Day 2024 and has a PhD in Theology titled 'Reconciliation and the Quest for Pākehā Identity in Aotearoa New Zealand'. He has a new book out, all about the history of the relationship between Māori and Pākehā (with a specific focus on the church) called He Tatau Pounamu. You can buy a copy here.

Petra is also joined by Elliot Collins. Artist, teacher and Dr (another one!), Petra wanted to talk to her friend Elliot to find out what it means to him to live as a treaty partner in day to day life. 

Sacred Texts:

• Clip from Dr Alistair Reese's kauhau/sermon delivered during the dawn service at Waitangi 2024

Music:

• Innerspace by The Apples in Stereo (played at end of Alistair's interview)
• Treaty by Moana and the Tribe
• music for indigo by Adrianne Lenker (played during the candle segment)
• Pepeha by Six60
• Frolic by Jake Xerxes Fussell (played at the end of Elliot's interview)
• Start Somewhere by Courtney Barnett (played to end the episode)

What communities are you part of? What does being involved in community mean for your life? Those are two of the core questions in this episode of Sunday Sanctuary. Whether we see ourselves as being community members or not, the different groups we are part of influence how we live our lives.

Community connections lead to both of the interviews for this episode. First up, Petra sat down to talk with the Reverend Dr Hirini Kaa, principal of St John's Theological College in Tāmaki Makaurau. Dr Kaa shared his views on what community means to him as a Māori man and how mana plays a part. Petra's second conversation is with Jenny Duckworth, someone who has lived in several communities all with a very intentional focus on serving their neighbours.

This episode also sees Producer Sam head back to Cornwall Park here in Auckland to ask unsuspecting strangers about their stories of community. He also tries to bring a theme song to the episode, with mixed success..... Haere mai!

Music:

- Come Together by The Beatles 
- Interlude by Julie Byrne (played during contemplative practice)
- Alegria by Elia y Elizabeth (played during community life)
- Everyday People by Sly and the Family Stone
- Oh My God by Kevin Morby (played at the end of Jenny's interview)
- Sun Rays Like Stilts by Tommy Guerrero (played during the benediction)

Re-enchantment, de-magification, however you want to put it, there are many people who are looking to embrace the wilder side of life and faith. Good friend of the show Rev Frank Ritchie is currently on a journey to re-enchant his life and so joins Petra to co-host this episode.

In this episode Petra talks to Dr Belle Tindall, co-host of the Re-enchanting podcast about where this whole idea of re-enchantment comes from. Next, Petra catches up with an old friend, Erin Morales Ruka, who lives a more enchanted life for an insight into what that looks like. Haere mai!

Sacred texts:

• Scene from Mary Poppins

Music:

• Adventure of a Lifetime by Coldplay
• God Gave Me Feet For Dancing by Ezra Collective
• Follow My Voice by Julie Byrne (played at end of Dr Belle's interview)
• Water No Get Enemy by Fela Kuti (played during Community Life segment)
• Equipoise by Max Roach (Played at end of Erin's interview)
• Slider - Lorenzo Saxophone Dub by This Is The Kit (Played at end of the episode)

We're in the middle of the winter season here in Aotearoa New Zealand right now, but have you ever gone through a time in life that felt like a winter? They can arrive following a death, a job loss, a disappointment, as a result of something else or out of nowhere! Everyone will experience times like these, so whether you're in a winter now or not, we made this episode for you.

In this episode of Sunday Sanctuary, Petra is joined by three guests. Up first is Horowhenua based GP and poet Glenn Colquhoun. Next, Petra talks to spiritual director Margaret Tooley. Lastly (and most excitingly for Petra), she talks to Australian cartoonist, poet and author Michael Leunig. Haere mai! Join us for an exploration of life's winters, what we can do about them, and what we can learn by "getting out into them".

Sacred text:

An edited passage from Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer

Featured music:

• Mr Sun by Greentea Peng
• A Forest by The Cure (played during scared text)
• Fold by Jose Gonzalez (played during scared text)
• Innerspace by The Apples in Stereo (played during scared text)
• Turn! Turn! Turn! by The Byrds
• Zionsville by Khruangbin (played at end of episode)

This episode is for three groups of people:

1) Those who have stumbled across a place where it felt like heaven was especially close

2) Those who have a place meaningful to them where they find themselves replenished and reconnected with the source of life whenever they are there

3) Those who are wondering "what the heck is all this about!?"

Whoever you are, join Petra as she talks to her good friends Pio Terei and Rev. Frank Ritchie to explore the Māori idea of ūkaipō and the Celtic idea of 'thin spaces'.

Sacred Text:

Where Heaven and Earth Come Closer by Erik Weiner. Published by the New York Times on 09/03/2012

Example of a prayer kneeler as mentioned by Frank

Featured Music:

• Woman of the Hill by Caitlin Gilligan
• River by Leon Bridges
• Climb by Laura Misch (played at the end of Pio's conversation)
• Rivers That You Cannot See by North Americans (played during Community Life)
• Space 1.8 by Nala Sinephro (played during the Contemplative Practice)
• Statue of a Woman by Novo Amor (played during the outro)

Sometimes it feels like the world is in a precarious place. It can be easy to fear what the future holds. Is it healthy to hold on to a certain amount of fear? Does is galvanise us to act? And if so, how much is too much? Petra speak to spiritual director, Rachel Kitchens, about the what to do with our fear of the future and historian, Peter Lineham, about what history shows us about the fear of the state of the world. 

Sacred Texts:

Edited excerpt from Unruly Saint by D.L. Mayfield

An Excerpt from In the Shelter by Pádraig Ó Tuama by On Being Studios. Read by the author.

Featured Music:

Play with Me by The Album Leaf
Waiting on the World to Change by John Mayer
Eve of Destruction by Barry McGuire
Holy War by Alicia Keys
Distraction Days by The Album Leaf

Holding a grudge is a tantalising temptation. Especially when someone has clearly wronged us. After all, they deserve to be held accountable for what they did, right?

In this episode, Petra and her guests explore what the big fuss is with forgiveness. And we’re not just talking about the earth-shattering acts of forgiveness, but garden variety forgiveness that can be weaved into our everyday life as we inevitably bump into the people around us.

Petra talks to counsellor and podcaster, Charlotte Cummings about the emotional world of forgiveness, and Rev Dr Malcolm Gordon about the nuts and bolt of the forgiveness process.

So if you’ve got a grudge that won’t budge, you’ve come to the right place.

Sacred Text:

Excerpt from The Book of Forgiving by Desmond and Mpho tutu.

Rev Malcolm Gordon't Podcast Series:

A Field Guide to Forgiveness

Featured Music:

• The Light by The Album Leaf
• I'm Not Sorry by Morrissey
• Brother by The Brilliance

We're surrounded by a lot of noise. Whether it's literal noise such as traffic and people's chatter or metaphorical noise in the form of a neverending supply of media, art and social content, it can be hard to cut through it all. 

On this episode of Sunday Sanctuary, join Petra as she explores the impact our noisy world can have on our body and our wairua/spirit. Grace McArthur returns to lead us in another exploration of Brené Brown's book Atlas of the Heart. Jay Ruka (Dean of St Mary's Cathedral in New Plymouth and author of Huia Come Home) also joins Petra to dive into how he has noticed the noisiness of his life change over time.

We know that a podcast episode exploring the downsides of noise is ironic, but our hope is that you'll be inspired to look into how you can start to deal with the noise that is everpresent in our world. 

Sacred Text:

The Peace of Wild Things by Wendell Berry (Text/Video)

Featured Music:

• Under the Water by Hand Habits and Amelia Meath
• A Quiet Place by Garnett Mimms & The Enchanters
• Memory as Miniatures by Rachika Nayar (played at the end of Atlast of the Heart)
• Beginning by The Durutti Column (played at the end of Jay Ruka's interview)
• Premiere Gymnopedie by Eric Satie (played under the benediction)

Let's be real, death is not something that most of us are comfortable talking about. Who wants to think about the death of family or friends until we absolutely have to? As it turns out, beginning to talk about death before it is strictly necessary can do so much for when we are faced with the reality. To clarify, in this episode of Sunday Sanctuary we are not talking about sudden, unexpected death. This episode we are talking about the eventuality of natural death that faces everyone.

Join Petra Bagust as she talks to paliative care nurses and clergy alike, to unpack the advantages of opening ourselves to conversations about the end of life. First up, Petra heads south to talk to Ann, a palliative care nurse (and mum of producer Sam), about her experiences of walking alongside many families as they face the death of a loved one. Later in the episode, Petra is joined by Anglican minister and chaplain to New Zealand's film industry, Kevin Denholm (otherwise affectionately known as Rev Kev ;). Kevin had a slightly different summer to most, leading eight funerals for residents of Aotea/Great Barrier Island. Haere Mai!

Sacred Texts: 

The Tale of the Three Brothers from Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part I

Featured Music:

• Fourth of July by Sufjan Stevens
• Someone Great by LCD Soundsystem (Lyrics)
• Pine Trees by Mary Lattimore (played during the contemplative practice)
• Statue Of A Woman by Novo Amor (played at the end of Ann's interview)

Books suggested by Ann:

• With the End in Mind by Kathryn Mannix
• Tuesdays with Morrie by Mitch Albom
• Being Mortal by Atul Gawande
• When Breath Becomes Air by Paul Kalanithi

There is a special sort of unsettled feeling reserved for moving to a new place, even if it's just across town. The destabilisation that so often comes with a new locale can linger for a while as we re-establish where home is for us. Although, sometimes the place we consider home stays the same while we move. Either way, this tricky feeling can be a tough one to navigate.

Come on a journey with your host Petra Bagust, as she talks to producer Josh about his childhood, which was spent between Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Thailand. Hear one man's story of his father's move from Taiwan to the USA in the '60s, and finally, our Community Life segment is released out into the wild, as producer Sam heads to Tāmaki Makaurau/Auckland's Cornwall Park!

Sacred Text

• Stay True (pages 11-12) by Hua Hsu

Featured Music

• Hell Hole by Erny Belle
• Bounty by Tiny Ruins
• Nathan Haines' cover of International Flight by David Snell (played during Community Life)
• Summer's End by Julie Byrne (played during the benediction)

When was the last time you faced disappointment? When you look back at that time, did it seem like the feeling sat with you for a long time? Disappointment is one of those feelings most of us would love to move along from as soon as possible. What if, however, there is a different way of looking at disappointment, and maybe even some good to be found within....

Join Petra Bagust on this special episode as our Atlas of the Heart segment with Grace McArthur returns for the first time in 2024! Petra also heads to the Life FM studio in Tāmaki Makaurau/Auckland to talk with Sela Alo about his view on disappointment.

Sacred Texts

• Atlas of the Heart (pages 43-52) by Brené Brown
• My So Called Lungs (18:53 - 21:13) by Radio Diaries

Featured Music

• Let Down by Radiohead
• Money or the Bag by French for Rabbits
• Rivers That You Cannot See by North Americans (played during Benediction)

We've all heard the saying that comparison is the thief of joy. But have you ever thought about how many different areas of our lives it applies to? We can spend so much of our time worrying that we aren't keeping up or meeting some unspoken expectations. So how do we learn to run our own race?

In this episode, Petra Bagust talks to two wonderful guests (who are also good friends in real life), counsellor Charlotte Cummings and Baptist Pastor James Beck.

Sacred Texts

• Baby Race from Bluey
• There's a Hole in the Sidewalk by Portia Nelson

Featured Music

• Let Me Get There by Hope Sandoval & The Warm Inventions ft. Kurt Vile
• Stressed Out by Twenty One Pilots

Wouldn't it be nice to just have all the answers? We're sure you've had moments of wishing it was possible to skip all of the tension and uncertainty, replacing it with sure-footed confidence. Unfortunately, that is not the reality we live in. There is, however, much to gain and learn from embracing the mystery of life. You might even find some hope.

In this episode, Petra Bagust is joined by development coach Nikki Bray and Rev. Spanky Moore, who share their insights and experiences with learning to embrace mystery.

Sacred Texts

• From Here to There by Nikki Bray (buy a copy here)
• John 20:24-29 (Tree of Life version)
• The Welcoming Prayer by Thomas Keating

Featured Music

• New Wanders by Motte (played during Nikki's reading)
• Mysterious Ways by U2
• If the Sun Is Shining by Zach Winters
• Le Moulin by Yann Tiersen (from the incredible film Amélie)

The article from The May Magazine that Petra mentions at the beginning of the episode can be found here.

Isn't it so true that as we journey through this thing called life that we are often experiencing both highs and lows at the very same time, usually colliding into each other? Like going home for a holiday but then falling sick while there, or celebrating a child's wedding but also grieving the season change, or as shared by one of you - throwing up while hiking and feeling awful but also enjoying the incredible view.

In this episode, Petra Bagust speaks with Hana Seddon of The Salvation Army and author of Beholding, Strahan Coleman, about their experiences of navigating the duality of life's highs and lows.

Sacred Texts

• Excerpt from My Inner Sky by Mari Andrew
• Clip from Are You Mental?'s Depression episode (2020), produced by Mick Andrews

In this first episode of Sunday Sanctuary for the year, we ask the question - what on earth are we alive for? Is there such a thing as a 'calling'? If so, how do we find out what it is for ourselves?

Join Petra Bagust and she explores this with two friends of the show, Te Karere Scarborough (co-principal of the newly-opened Te Wānanga Ihorangi) and Frank Ritchie (broadcaster and media chaplain), hearing their personal experiences and thoughts on the subject of purpose.

And as per our Sunday Sanctuary rhythm, we kick off these conversations with 'sacred texts' - 

• Up by Pixar
• Let Your Life Speak by Patrick J. Palmer, pages 16-17

T'was the day before Christmas, and all through the house
Many a creature was stirring, even the mouse
The jobs were all done in a hurry, but also with care
In the hope that some peace soon would be there
In the evening, with all now safely snug in their beds
As hopes for some joy and wonder danced in their heads.

On this episode of Sunday Sanctuary, we decided to keep it simple. Petra's guest this episode is one of our favourite reverends, Spanky Moore. He very graciously shares about what his year has been like, and how in the midst of it all he has still been able to find moments of wonder, joy, and peace. Whether you hear this episode on Christmas Eve or come to it in the new year, we hope that it might inspire some ways for you to find the wonder and joy present in your life as it is.

All of us on the Sunday Sanctuary team would like to say a massive kia ora to everyone who has listened this year! We put a lot of love into this show and we love to hear about what it means to you. If you'd like to tell us about what part Sunday Sanctuary has played in your life this last year and/or what parts of the show you like best, we'd be very thankful. Feel free to message us on Instagram, we're @sundaysanctuarynz. Your thoughts will come in really handy as we talk about what Sunday Sanctuary looks like in 2024.

Mā te wā,

Petra, Steph, Josh, and Sam

Awe

The moment of awe in this episode was inspired by this article from Sports History Weekly. There is also a documentary on the Lithuanian basketball team called The Other Dream Team, released in 2012. 

Sacred texts:

The book of John, chapter 1, verses 1 - 5

Rev. Spanky Moore referenced quotes from two rabbis:
1) "Never once in my life did I ask God for success or wisdom or power or fame. I asked for wonder, and he gave it to me." - Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel, from his book I Asked for Wonder: A Spiritual Anthology

2) "Some years back I hit a skid in my personal life. Though I knew objectively that I had much to be grateful for, it was hard to acknowledge a sense of gratitude. It was difficult to notice the positive that was out there beyond the slog of getting through every day. But now and then, I’d feel the impulse to take out my phone and capture a slice of beauty. These fleeting glimpses of splendor broke through my horizon of pain and lifted me up…." - Rabbi Hara Person, from a meditation written for The Center for Action and Contemplation

One final thing. If you're needing a playlist of Christmas music, we've put together A Sunday Sanctuary Christmas on Spotify. Enjoy!