Clarence Penn on Teaching Improvisation, Creating "Safe Spaces" to Learn, and Creating a Movement

In this interview you’ll catch a lot of references.

That’s because Clarence was one of the most influential drummers on the early-2000s “jazz renaissance” that happened in New York, and on me.

No matter who the artist was that was drawing out New York jazz students on a Tuesday night, you can bet the drummer was Blade, Ari Hoenig, Dan Weiss, or Clarence. (And later Eric Harland and Marcus.)

And if you look up the personnel from practically any of the most influential bands of the era, you’ll see Clarence in the drum seat.

Two of my favorite examples:

Strange Liberation, which I mention in the interview (“slow down” part is at 6:52)

The Visitor (live version), which contains one of my favorite Clarence solos. (Solo begins at 5:20)

From these examples you’ll get an idea of the “tension” I mention in the interview between tighness/snappiness and looseness/irreverence, and you’ll hear Clarence’s “punk rock mixed with deep love for the tradition” style.

It took a couple of months before Clarence had a spare moment in his busy schedule, which includes commuting from Florida, where he lives with his family, to LA, where he’s on the faculty of USC, but it was worth the wait.

In this conversation, we speak a lot about teaching and learning, a subject of current fascination, given that I’m coaching a small group of 1:1 jazz students. I get Clarence’ philosophy on teaching improvisation, and the limitations of written material.

We also speak about “safe spaces” (not in the politically charged way), and the tension between helping students by holding them accountable, but wanting lessons to be an “oasis” in their week instead of inducing stress.

And of course I can’t waste the opportunity to ask Clarence about what it was like being part of a jazz renaissance, and how he feels that’s different from the current climate…

…not to mention the boundaries of the word “jazz”, and why people who were in the New York scene in the early 2000s define that word differently than “kids these days”.

If you can’t tell from my writing, this was one of my favorite interviews so far, and I know you’ll enjoy it too. If you dig the interview, please follow Clarence on instagram and give him a shout.

Chapters

1:13- Latest teaching gig at USC, and the value of motivated students 12:30 - the paradox of focus 18:10 - why I think Clarence was predisposed to do what he did 23:45 - is jazz dead? (hah!) 27:33 - the definitions of jazz 34:58 - bridging the gap between exercise and improvisation 42:54 - how Clarence practices time