The Debrief with Jon Becker

My guest today is Dr. Kelly Starrett. Kelly is a world-renowned physical therapist, a strength and conditioning coach to Olympic and World Champion athletes, a 3x best-selling author, a speaker, and a two-time national kayaking champion. Kelly and his wife and partner Juliet launched one of the first CrossFit gyms in 2005, created the website Mobility WOD, and created the highly praised fitness blog
and podcast called the “The Ready State.”

Kelly’s first book, "Becoming a Supple Leopard", not only found a place on The New York Times bestsellers list for sports books but also challenged traditional perspectives on mobility and biomechanics. He has since written two more best-selling books including his latest work written with his wife Juliet which is called "Built to Move". Kelly has shared his expertise all over the world including working with the US Olympic team, the San Francisco 49s, the New Zealand All Blacks Rugby team, and countless other professional sports teams.

More importantly, he has also worked with Tier 1 and Tier 2 units as well as numerous high-profile military and law enforcement tactical units. In this episode Kelly and I discuss becoming a tactical athlete and optimizing your physical capabilities. We also dig into Kelly’s guidance on preventing injury, training for longevity, and creating a culture of performance in your team. This is a fantastic discussion with one of the foremost experts in strength and conditioning who also happens to be a great guy with a genuine passion for first responders.

Books Recommended
Built to Move: The Ten Essential Habits to Help You Move Freely and Live Fully – Kelly Starrett & Juliet Starrett – ISBN 13 - 978-0593534809

Becoming a Supple Leopard 2nd Edition: The Ultimate Guide to Resolving Pain, Preventing Injury, and Optimizing Athletic Performance – Kelly Starrett and Glen Cordoza – ISBN 13 - 978-1628600834

Contact Info
The Ready State – https://www.thereadystate.com

My guest today is Michael Lumpkin. Michael has served many roles in his extremely distinguished career including Navy SEAL Captain, Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations and Low Intensity Conflicts, Acting Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, Deputy Chief of Staff for the Department of Veterans Affairs, Special Assistant to Sec Def, and a Special Envoy at the Department of State. 

Michael’s military career included numerous deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, serving as the Officer in Charge of training the West Coast SEAL Teams, Team Commanding Officer, service as the Deputy Joint Special Operations Task Force Commander for The Arabian Peninsula, and service at the USSOCOM Office of Legislative Affairs.

His civilian government career has included the implementation of the 2010 Omnibus Caregivers Act for VA, overseeing the Osama Bin Laden operation, reorganizing the DOD POW/MIA effort, leading the DOD’s response to Ebola in West Africa, negotiating and executing the recovery of Sgt Bowe Bergdahl, and direct appointment by the President to stand up the US Department of State Global Engagement Center to counter ISIS marketing efforts.

Michael is currently the Chief of Staff at US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and a Commissioner on the Afghanistan War Commission.

I really enjoyed this chat because Michael has a uniquely broad level of knowledge at the tactical, operational, and strategic levels of national power including on both the military and civilian sides. This has given him a very unique perspective on leadership, selection, and standards. 

Books Recommended

Meditations by Marcus Aurelius

Today’s episode of The Debrief  features a unique format: this episode was recorded live at the National Tactical Officers Association Annual Conference in Aurora, Colorado. I was fortunate to moderate a panel discussion that included the presidents of five separate tactical associations including: Brent Straton from the California Association of Tactical Officers, Chris Eklund from the Florida SWAT Association, Thor Eells from the National Tactical Officers Association, Nick Sprague from the Rocky Mountain Tactical Teams Association and Dan Colasanto from the Texas Tactical Police Officers Association. 
 
This was a wide-ranging discussion that covered a number of current topics in special tactics including: Constitutional Policing, Militarization of law enforcement, SWAT standards, no-knock warrants, and the use of dynamic tactics in search warrants.  The contrast between the different regional and national perspectives on these issues made for a great conversation.  I’d like to thank the NTOA, CATO, Florida SWAT, RMTTA, and TTPOA for their willingness to share this discussion with our audience. 

A note regarding audio quality: this episode was recorded live, in a large group setting, at the NTOA conference. We have done our best to reduce most, but not all, of the background noise. It is our hope that you find this content informative and thought-provoking despite these distractions. 

Important Links:
CATO - Home | CATO (catotraining.org)
Florida SWAT Association - Home (memberclicks.net)
NTOA - NTOA | National Tactical Officers Association
RMTTA - Rocky Mountain Tactical Team Association (rmtta.com)
TTPOA - TTPOA

In June of 2018, just two years after the PULS nightclub attacks, Orlando Police officers responded to a domestic violence call. As officers attempted to contact the suspect, he fired a shot though his door striking Officer Kevin Valencia with wounds that he would eventually succumb to.  The suspect then barricaded in his apartment with his 4 children as hostages.  This event, which would last more than 24 hours, proved extremely difficult and required the resources of both the Orlando Police Department SWAT Team and their partners from the Orange County Sherriff’s SWAT Team before finally reaching a tragic resolution. My guests today are Dep. Chief Jonathan Bigelow from the Orlando Police Department and Sgt. Chris Eklund with the Orange County Florida Sherriff’s Office to discuss the incident and share their lessons learned. 

This episode will be dedicated to the memory of Officer Kevin Valencia.

Books Recommended

The Common Sense Way: A New Way to Think About Leading and Organizing – Pete Blaber ISBN-13: 978-0578876740

Leaders Eat Last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don't – Simon Sinek - ISBN-13: 978-1591848011

Sound Doctrine: A Tactical Primer – Charles Sid Heal - ISBN-13: 978-1930051119

The World's Most Powerful Leadership Principle - How To Become A Servant Leader - James C. Hunter - ISBN-13:‎ 978-1578569755

Leader Shift- The 11 Essential Changes Every Leader Must Embrace - John C. Maxwell - ISBN-13: ‎ 978-0718098506

Contact Info

Dep. Chief Jonathan Bigelow – OPD - Special Service Bureau – [email protected]

Sgt. Chris Eklund – OCSO SWAT - [email protected]

On July 2, 2020 patrol officers attempted to contact a suspect about moving an illegally parked automobile at the Three Rivers Mobile Home Park in Hastings, MN. As officers spoke to the suspect’s wife and two of his four children the suspect locked and barricaded the door to his trailer with his other two children inside. 

Over the course of the next 15 hours, in sweltering heat, the South Metro SWAT Team, in conjunction with Washington County SWAT, and Ramsey County SWAT, attempted to negotiate a peaceful resolution to the crisis as the suspects mental state deteriorated. 

Although they were able to obtain one of the two children, it started to become clear that a tactical intervention would be necessary. My guests today are Adam Tschida, Daniel Salmey, and Jeff Hanson from South Metro SWAT to discuss the case, their successful HRT intervention, and the lessons learned from a very challenging rescue. 

About South Metro SWAT
South Metro SWAT provides tactical coverage for thirteen different law enforcement agencies in Minnesota. The team’s service area spans roughly 1000 square miles south of the Twin Cities and is home to approximately 380,000 residents. 

The team has roughly 50 members. 35 tactical members including: commander, assistant commander, team leaders, snipers, breachers, medics, K9, etc. 15 crisis negotiations team members included: assistant commander, team leader, sworn LE, licensed mental health personnel. Core competencies include: hostage rescue, high risk warrant service, barricaded suspect/subject operations, dignitary protection, public order operations, man tracking operations, vehicle suppression, and community event security/quick reaction force.

Books Recommended
Lincoln on Leadership: Executive Strategies for Tough Times - Donald T. Phillips – ISBN: 9780446394598
Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know - Adam M. Grant – ISBN: 9781984878106
Call Sign Chaos: Learning to Lead - Jim Mattis & Bing West – ISBN: 9780812996838
The Dichotomy of Leadership: Balancing the Challenges of Extreme Ownership to Lead and Win - Jocko Willink & Leif Babin – ISBN: 9781250195777

Contact Info
Adam Tschida - [email protected]
Daniel Salmey - [email protected]

My Guest today is a true legend who is one of only three people to have served at all of the roles in LAPD D-Platoon: Chief Mike Albanese. Mike has spent 52 years in law enforcement with 37 of those spent at LAPD, 26 of which was spent in SWAT and Crisis Negotiation. Mike is one of only a handful of people to have ever served in the 10 David or SWAT commander role at LAPD. Since retiring from LAPD he has served as a Captain, Deputy Chief and is currently the Chief of Police for the Burbank California Police Department. This is two-part series where we walk through not only his amazing career at LAPD, but the evolution and history of special tactics, the creation of Crisis Negotiation as a discipline, and the lessons learned from a lifetime of service.

Books Recommended
The Situational Leader - Paul Hersey – ISBN: 0931619017
If You Give a Mouse a Cookie - Laura Numeroff, Felicia Bond – ISBN: 9780064434096

My Guest today is a true legend who is one of only three people to have served at all of the roles in LAPD D-Platoon Chief Mike Albanese. Mike has spent 52 years in law enforcement with 37 of those spent at LAPD, 26 of which was spent in SWAT and Crisis Negotiation.  Mike is one of only a handful of people to have ever served in the 10 David or SWAT commander role at LAPD. Since retiring from LAPD he has served as a Captain, Deputy Chief and is currently the Chief of Police for the Burbank California Police Department. This is two-part series where we walk through not only his amazing career at LAPD, but the evolution and history of special tactics, the creation of Crisis Negotiation as a discipline, and the lessons learned from a lifetime of service.

Books Recommended
The Situational Leader - Paul Hersey – ISBN: 0931619017
If You Give a Mouse a Cookie - Laura Numeroff, Felicia Bond – ISBN: 9780064434096

My guest today is Dr. Kevin Menes.  Kevin is an emergency room physician and tactical team doctor who led a team that managed to treat and save hundreds of patients following the active sniper attack in Las Vegas on October 1, 2017.  Kevin’s insights into the Las Vegas attack are unique and offer us clear lessons learned in preparing for mass casualty. Too often active shooter preparation ends at the tactical level and fails to consider the effect on all involved agencies.  This discussion with Kevin clearly shows that saving lives after a mass killing event is dependent upon the preparation and training for all of the responding organizations.

Books Recommended
The Mission, the Men, and Me - Pete Blaber - ISBN-13:‎ 978-0425236574
The Way Things Work - David Macaulay  - ISBN: 0-395-42857-2
The Floaters Log - Ron Krome - ISBN-13: ‎ 978-142418282

Sites Recommended
Kevin Menes, MD | Emergency Physicians Monthly (epmonthly.com)

Contact Info
Email: [email protected]
Instagram: @menes.resuscitation
Facebook: menes.resuscitation
LinkedIn: Kevin Menes
MD Twitter: @kvnmns

My guest today is Tom Satterly.  Tom is a highly decorated combat veteran, having served in the Army 25 years, with the last 20 in the US Army’s most elite Tier One unit, Delta. During his career Tom was involved in, and led, some of our nation’s most important military campaigns including the Battle in Mogadishu portrayed in the film Blackhawk Down and the capture of Saddam Hussein. Tom is the recipient of numerous medals including a Silver Star, and 4 Bronze Stars, with 1 for Valorous acts.  He was also the first American to ever attend Germany’s Ranger School.  Tom retired from Delta in 2010 as a Command Sergeant Major.

Tom’s willingness to speak openly and honestly of his mental and emotional struggles have saved the lives of countless other warriors who believed they had to suffer in silence and make it alone or not at all. Today, Tom and his wife and partner, Jen are the co-Founders and co-CEOs of All Secure Foundation, a non-profit organization serving Special Operation warriors and their families to help reconnect and heal. 

Tom’s best-selling book, “All Secure: A Special Operations Soldier’s Fight to Survive on the Battlefield and the Homefront”, was released on November 5, 2019 and is available at all major booksellers. 

Books Recommended

The Body Keeps the Score: Mind, Brain and Body in the Transformation of Trauma by Bessel van der Kolk - ISBN-13:‎ 978-0670785933

All Secure: A Special Operations Soldier's Fight to Survive on the Battlefield and the Homefront by Tom Satterly and Steve Jackson - ISBN-13: ‎ 978-1546076575

Sites Recommended

www.allsecurefoundation.org 

Contact Info

Instagram: @TomSatterly 

My guest today is Chief John Perez. John recently retired as the Chief of Police for the Pasadena California Police Department. In his nearly 37 years of service to Pasadena, John served at literally all ranks in the department. During his career John worked patrol, narcotics, counter terrorism, and as a swat sergeant, lieutenant, and commander, John helped to form the first generation of Pasadena’s tactical team which had the challenge of deploying as a full-time gang enforcement team and a SWAT team for many years. John was twice awarded the Chief’s medal of excellence and received several commendations for his service over the years. 

Books Recommended

12 Rules for Life: An Antidote for Chaos – Jordan Peterson – ISBN 0345816021

Discover Your True North – Bill George – ISBN 0787987514

Extreme Ownership: Jocko Willink and Leif Babin –ISBN-13: 9781250183866

Man’s Search for Meaning – Viktor Frankl - ISBN 080701429X

Quiet Strength: The Principles, Practices, and Priorities of a Winning Life – Tony Dungy – ISBN 1414318022

Contact Info

Chief John Perez (Ret) 

[email protected]

My guest today is a legend in the US tactical community Chief Phil Hansen. Phil recently retired after serving as the Chief of Police for the Santa Maria California Police Department. But prior to Santa Maria Phil retired as a Captain from the Los Angeles Country Sherriff’s Department where he served for 36 years. During his tenure at LASD he spent more than 24 years in full time tactical and emergency management positions, including nearly 20 years at the elite Special Enforcement Bureau (SEB). Phil has served as a board member of the National Tactical Officers Association since 1991 including serving as the Chairman of the Board. He is a member of the executive committee for the California POST SWAT guidelines, and has served as a board of inquiry member for LAPD and Oakland PD. 

Contact Info
Cell # (805) 994-9051
Email: [email protected]

Books Recommended
Contrarians Guide to Leadership - Steven B. Sample and Warren Bennis – ISBN: 978-0787967079
Going Pro, The Deliberate Practice of Professionalism - Tony Kern, Pygmy Books Publishing – ISBN: 978-0984206315
Leading Change: The Argument for Values-Based Leadership – James O’Toole – ISBN: 978-0345402547
Passion of Command: The Moral Imperative of Leadership – Col. Bryan McCoy – ISBN: 978-0940328372

My guest today is Gareth Lock.  Gareth spent 25 years in the Royal Air Force as a flight instructor, a navigator on C-130 Hercules, a systems engineer and a requirements manager. Following his retirement from the RAF in 2015 he started work in high-risk industries teaching Human Factors and Crew Resource Management (CRM).  Eventually Gareth turned his attention to diving, applying a military systems approach to diving risk management by creating an organization called The Human Diver which is focused on what they describe as Counter-Errorism. Specifically, Gareth and his team provides training globally to high reliability and high-risk organizations on leadership, culture, and practical measures to improve operator safety.  In 2019 Gareth led a team of military experts to undertake a review of UK military diving with the goal of improving diver safety. Gareth has worked with the US National Parks Service Submerged Resource Centre (Denver, CO), National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research Ltd (NZ), and the American Academy of Underwater Sciences (USA) to provide human factors training and high-performance team development courses.

Gareth is the author of the book Under Pressure – Diving Deeper with Human Factors which looks at case studies of near disasters and applies academic theory to understanding how we can better communicate and lead those in high risk/high reliability units.  

I am excited to have Gareth on because his views of human fallibility, although rooted in diving, have broad lessons to teach anyone who leads others, especially those working in high-risk areas.

Contact Information
www.thehumandiver.com 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garethlock/ 

Links
Compliance provides an illusion of safety in diving

Dave Snowden’s paper on ‘Knowledge without context is meaningless’ – Complex acts of knowing. 

 Safety Culture & Trade-offs – Risk management in a dynamic society: a modelling problem – Jens Rasmussen paper 

 Red Teaming Thinking 

 Risk Savvy – Risk vs Uncertainty

 Interpersonal Skills Lab
 
The training I offer across multiple domains which has no/limited professional jeopardy

Blog about Learning from Near Misses. Were you lucky or good? 

 Local Rationality and Hindsight

Kevin Cyr is an Inspector with Royal Canadian Mounted Police and is the current commander of the RCMP Emergency Response Team in British Columbia, which is the second largest tactical unit in Canada. Kevin has been with RCMP for 22 years and has been with the team for 7 years. He has a master’s in law from Osgoode Hall Law School and is published internationally in law and criminology journals. He also teaches incident command at the Canadian Police College.

Contact Info: LinkedIn

Books Recommended: Extreme Ownership - Jocko Willink and Leif Babin – ISBN# 250067057

My guest today is Jordan Robison. This episode is a follow up to last week’s Critical Incident Review about the August 18, 2021, shooting that occurred when the San Bernardino Police Department’s SWAT Team attempted to arrest a suspect who had ambushed and attempted to murder a San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Deputy the day before. 

When the team performed a vehicle takedown the suspect immediately opened fire
on the team with a 10mm handgun, striking Jordan in both forearms, his shoulder, his femur, his stomach below the armor and a grazing wound to his ribs. He was also hit in the abdomen which was stopped by his armor.

 After last week’s episode we received several calls and emails asking about Jordan so we decided to do a follow up episode with him to discuss his recovery and his personal lessons learned. There is a great deal of very valuable information on this episode which we hope will help others who are affected by an on-duty shooting.

On August 18, 2021, the San Bernardino California SWAT Team was assigned to locate and arrest a suspect who had ambushed and attempted to murder a San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Deputy the day before. When the team located and attempted a vehicle takedown the suspect immediately opened fire on the team with a 10mm handgun, striking Officer Jordan Robison 8 times and Officer Chris Shipley once. Officer Robison was hit in both forearms, his shoulder, his femur, his stomach below the armor and a took grazing wound to his ribs. He was also hit twice in the abdomen which were stopped by his armor. 

Officer Shipley, despite being shot in the leg, was able to return fire along with a teammate fatally wounding the suspect.  Officer Shipley then rendered lifesaving medical aid to Officer Robison. SWAT Medic Spencer Brumbaugh was also on scene and provided lifesaving aid to Officer Robison immediately after the incident and through subsequent transport to the emergency room.

My guests today are Jordan Robison, Chris Shipley and Spencer Brumbaugh

Timestamps

1:25 - Introduction To The Incident

2:39 - Leadup To The Event

13:14 - Start Of The Takedown

15:00 - The Exits The Van 

17:18 -Jordan And Chris Are Shot 

21:00 -Chris Treats Jordan

25:50 -Chris Discusses Treating Jordan

28:00 -Spencer Treating Jordan's Injuries

40:35 -Getting To The ER

46:00 -The Need To Remain Calm

48:00 -Lessons Learned

56:20 -What The Tacmed Program Did Right

1:02:00 -Training For The Worse Case Scenario

1:12:19 - The Risk Of Complacency 

1:17:39 - Knowing Your Gear

1:21:00 - The Role Of Competition And Culture

1:23:41- Things They Would Do Differently

Description

My guest today is Bob Koonce. Bob is the founder of High Reliability Group, which he created after serving 20 years in the United States Navy. Bob's distinguished naval career included serving on five different nuclear fast attack submarines and culminated with him being given command of the USS Key West, a $2 billion nuclear-powered Los Angeles-class fast attack submarine. Following his retirement from the Navy, Bob has worked in a variety of leadership roles, primarily in the energy industry, where he has led business development, project management, and consulting efforts for large and small companies. Bob is an expert in the leadership of high-reliability organizations and a co-author of the book, "'Extreme Operational Excellence,' which focuses on the culture of the United States nuclear submarine force. Our conversation today focuses on utilizing specific techniques he learned in the nuclear submarine community to drive the culture of high reliability organizations. 

Contact Info

Bob Koonce

President and Founder

High Reliability Group LLC

312-859-9311

www.hrghro.com

linkedin.com/in/bobkoonce

Books Recommended

Extreme Operational Excellence: Applying the US Nuclear Submarine Culture to Your Organization: DiGeronimo, Matt, Koonce, Bob: 9781478778127: Amazon.com: Books

Amazon.com: The High-Velocity Edge: How Market Leaders Leverage Operational Excellence to Beat the Competition: 9780071741415: Steven J. Spear: Books

Timestamps
Timestamps
00:01:55 Nuclear Submarine Culture

00:10:50 Methods of Developing Positive Culture

00:15:30 Authority and High-Risk Decision Making

00:22:40 Importance and Reinforcement of Lessons Learned

00:31:15 Bob’s Most Important Habit

00:31:50 The Most Important Element of Building an Effective Team

00:32:13 What Should Every Leader Know?

Starting next week The Debrief will be introducing a new series called Battle Proven Leadership (or BPL). In contrast to the long format and wide-ranging interviews of The Debrief, BPL episodes will be shorter and deeply explore a single topic in leadership with a goal of providing specific/actionable information that you can use to improve your leadership skills. My guests will be subject matter experts who operate in high stress environments both inside and outside the tactical community. Regardless of whether your battlefield is a military, law enforcement, or business operation, each episode will expose you to the viewpoints, techniques and tactics of leaders whose skills have been proven in high risk operations with zero margin for error.

My guest today is John Mattingly. John is a retired Sgt. from the Louisville Police Department who led the search warrant service at the home of Breonna Taylor on March 13, 2020 and was shot in the leg by her boyfriend Kenneth Walker before returning fire along with another officer resulting in the death of Ms. Taylor. This event, of course, became a huge catalytic event for protests, riots, lawsuits, death threats against the officers and, tragically, the shooting of two more officers in response to the multi-day civil unrest that followed. It has also led to three of the officers involved in obtaining the warrant as well as one of the officers involved in the raid being charged with federal crimes. John has recently written a book called 12 Seconds in the Dark that documents the facts of the case from his perspective and discusses numerous issues that have not been discussed in the media.

Timestamps

3:15 John’s Career History

6:40 Background Of The Warrant

13:40 John’s First Involvement In The Case

17:35 The Night of The Warrant, Ad Hoc Team & Training for Narcotics Units in LMPD

24:40 Arrival at the Scene, Initial Scouting & Apartment Layout

31:55 Search Warrant Service Begins 42:00 Initial Aftermath of the Shooting

52:40 John's Injuries and Medical Treatment

56:35 Press aftermath and inaccuracy of reporting 01:05:20 Initial Response of City

01:12:10 Lessons Learned – Training

01:18:50 Lessons Learned – Knock & Notice, Culture & Complacency

01:29:00 Lessons Learned – Narco Teams v. SWAT Teams and Body Warn Cameras

01:32:30 Lessons Learned – Agency Response to These Types of Events

01:37:00 John’s Cautionary Advice To Young Cops Working Narco

01:40:50 The Need for Debriefs to Avoid Complacency

Links
City of Louisville Investigative Files
NY Times Investigation

My guests today are Thor Eells and Don Kester from the National Tactical Officers Association or NTOA which is the largest tactical organization in the United States. Thor is a retired commander from the Colorado Springs Colorado Police Department where he served for 30 years. The majority of which was in tactical response including serving as a swat operator, a swat team leader and a team commander. Thor is currently the Executive Director for NTOA after serving many years as a board member and a trainer. Don is retired from the Pima County Sheriff’s Department in Arizona where he served as a SWAT team operator, team leader, team sergeant, training director and SWAT team commander eventually retiring as a Division
Commander and Captain. Don is currently the training and education director for the NTOA after many years of service as a trainer and a board member.

Timestamps

02:00 – Thor’s background and law enforcement career

05:00 – Don’s background and law enforcement career

11:00 – The mission of the National Tactical Officers Association

15:30 – The relationship between state associations and the NTOA

20:30 – Police reform movements & the role of the NTOA as information provider

37:00 – National standards for special tactics teams

46:00 – Maintaining training standards with diverse team capabilities

55:00 – The NTOAs role in supporting teams with subject matter expertise

1:00:00 – The need to honest self-examination and debriefing

1:05:00 – The roots of bad legislation and need for law enforcement to oppose it

1:11:00 – No knock warrants, dynamic entries, and the NTOAs position paper

1:32:00 – The counter arguments for dynamic tactics and no-knock warrants

1:34:00 – Risk management and safety priorities

Contact Info
Thor Eells - [email protected]
Don Kester - [email protected]

Links
NTOA | National Tactical Officers Association

Description
This is a very special joint episode between the CATO Podcast and the Debrief hosted by CATO President Brent Stratton
and Jon Becker. Our guest today is Medal of Honor recipient Staff Sergeant Earl D. Plumlee. MSgt Plumlee received the
Medal of Honor for his actions on August 28, 2013 in Afghanistan. We were extremely lucky to sit down with MSgt
Plumlee after he spoke at the CATO Conference this year. In this episode we will hear the story of his amazing actions
that day, talk about training, preparation, and mindset and learn from a true American hero.

Timestamps
2:10 Earl’s Career History
6:35 Mission of Army Special Forces Units
17:00 Arrival at FOB Ghazni
20:00 Precursors of the Attack
28:40 Day of the Attack
33:00 Engagement Begins
55:00 Earl and Drew Regroup
66:00 Effects of Earl’s Training on His Response
77:00 Embracing Weakness to Elevate Performance
87:00 Stress Innoculation Lessons Learned
90:00 Attention to Detail and Unit Culture
98:00 The Meaning of the Medal of Honor to Earl
103:00 The Need for Family and Work Life Balance

Links
Medal of Honor Presentation - Remarks on Presenting the Medal of Honor to Master Sergeant Earl D. Plumlee and
Posthumously to Sergeant First Class Alwyn C. Cashe and Sergeant First Class Christopher A. Celiz | The American
Presidency Project (ucsb.edu)

My guest today is a legend in the US tactical community Chief Phil Hansen.  Phil recently retired after serving as the Chief of Police for the Santa Maria California Police Department.  But prior to Santa Maria Phil retired as a Captain from the Los Angeles Country Sherriff’s Department where he served for 36 years.  During his tenure at LASD he spent more than 24 years in full time tactical and emergency management positions, including nearly 20 years at the elite Special Enforcement Bureau (SEB). Phil has served as a board member of the National Tactical Officers Association since 1991 including serving as the Chairman of the Board. He is a member of the executive committee for the California POST SWAT guidelines, and has served as a board of inquiry member for LAPD and Oakland PD.  

Timestamps
01:45 – Early Career and Start at LASD
04:30 – Arrival at SEB
06:00 – Evolution of Dynamic Entry & The War on Drugs
11:15 – The Menu of Options for Narcotics Warrants 
19:00 – Unit Culture, Constant Development, & Selection
25:15 – John Kolman and The Origins of the NTOA
35:00 – Development of California SWAT Standards. NTOA National Standards & Current Legal Attacks on SWAT
51:30 – The Need for Effective Downward Information Flow and Information Sharing
59:00 – Phil’s Time at Emergency Operations Bureau
1:02:00 – Navigating Career Adversity
1:08:00 – Santa Maria PD Career
1:10:00 – Modern Issues in Special Tactics – Interagency Relationships 
1:22:00 – Justifications & Reasons for Special Tactics Teams
1:30:00 – Rapid Fire Questions

Contact Info 
Cell # (805) 994-9051
Email: [email protected]

Books Recommended
Contrarians Guide to Leadership - Steven B. Sample and Warren Bennis – ISBN: 978-0787967079
Going Pro, The Deliberate Practice of Professionalism - Tony Kern, Pygmy Books Publishing – ISBN: 978-0984206315
Leading Change: The Argument for Values-Based Leadership – James O’Toole – ISBN: 978-0345402547
Passion of Command: The Moral Imperative of Leadership – Col. Bryan McCoy – ISBN: 978-0940328372

Description
On November 13, 2015, Paris experienced a series of coordinated Islamist terrorist attacks. These attacks took place
over three separate areas of the city and were carried out by multiple teams of attackers. Almost four hours after they
began the events ended with a dramatic and successful hostage rescue that will be the topic for today’s discussion.
This episode of the debrief will have a slightly different format. My guest today is an active member of France’s elite
Brigade for Research and Intervention or BRI. Because of the nature of his current assignment and the nature of their
work, it is critical that we maintain his anonymity. As a result, we will not be showing this episode on video or using our
guest’s real name.

Timestamps
2:00 – Policing in France – Structure and agencies
5:15 – Origins, History, and Mission of BRI
11:15 – Overview of the November 13 attacks on Paris
12:52 – Location 1 - Stadt D’ France suicide bombers
16:30 – Location 2 – Café and bar attacks in 10th arrondissement
19:30 – BRI activation and staging
22:35 – Location 3 – Bataclan theater attack begins
27:45 – Street police arrival and entry
31:30 – BRI arrival on scene and initial entry
39:50 – First engagement with terrorists
46:09 – Negotiations
50:00 – Description of the HRT area
52:30 – Assault
1:05:00 – Clearing remainder of corridor
1:09:00 – Effects of the event on team
1:21:30 – Lessons learned from the Bataclan HRT

Links
Netflix special on the Paris Attacks: Watch November 13: Attack on Paris | Netflix Official Site
Timeline and overview by France24 - Paris attacks: The investigation continues (france24.com)
HSAC whitepaper on events - hsac-paris-lessons-learned_whitepaper.pdf (pepperdine.edu)

Description

Kevin Cyr is an Inspector with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and is the current commander of the RCMP Emergency Response Team in British Columbia, which is the second largest tactical unit in Canada. Kevin has been with the RCMP for 22 years and has been with the team for 7 years. He has a master’s in law from Osgoode Hall Law School and is published internationally in law and criminology journals. He also teaches incident command at the Canadian Police College. 

Timestamps

1:00 - His personal history and career path

2:25 – Structure and functioning of the RCMP

5:45 – Advantages and disadvantages of the Canadian policing model

7:30 – Origins of RCMP SERT and ERT teams

13:00 – The role of modern tactical teams

14:30 – 2010 Olympics and ERTs transition to full-time teams

17:15 – Current ERT team configuration

21:00 – Decision-making and the trap of risk mitigation

27:00 – Understanding the difference between cheap and expensive and effective and efficient in preparation

33:15 – Weighing when to spend money vs. improving skills – understanding requirements

38:00 – Tactical decision-making & analysis paralysis

42:00 – Militarization of law enforcement

45:45 – How overly aggressive law and policy can lead to tactical indecisiveness

50:15 – How the standards we hold police to are unreasonable

55:00 – How the origin stories for SWAT are complicating modern tactical response

57:00 – Delegation of authority and decision making

1:01:00 – Who should make tactical decisions?

1:03:00 – How we should be training our future tactical leaders 

1:09:45 – Rapid fire questions

Contact Info: 

Kevin Cyr - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-cyr-ll-m-b78206133 

Books Recommended:  

Extreme Ownership - Jocko Willink and Leif Babin – ISBN# 250067057

Description

My guest today Is Buddy Brown. Buddy works for the York County Sherriff’s Office in South Carolina. Buddy has worked patrol, narcotics and training and spent more than 18 years on the York County regional SWAT team. On January 16, 2018, York County responded to a domestic violence call that led a suspect on the run in the woods behind a residential area. By the time the night was over Det. Mike Doty would be murdered by the suspect and three other members of the agency would be shot and seriously wounded, including Buddy. In this Critical Incident Review Buddy will take us through the timeline and events of the night as well as discuss their lessons learned and his recovery from catastrophic injuries.

Timestamps

2:20 - His history and career path

3:20  – Configuration of York County Sheriff’s Office Agency and the SWAT team

5:10 – Initial call for service and search for suspect

9:00 – Ambush of dog team and Shooting of K9 Sgt. Randy Clinton

15:40 – Initial SWAT response and search

24:15 – Response to 1475 Paraham Road

30:45 – Ambush of team by suspects and shooting of three team members

35:20 – Shooting stops and suspect surrenders

39:10 – Initial medical response for injured operators

45:40 – Buddy’s Injuries

47:30 – Arrest of suspect

56:30 – Initial effects on the families

58:50 – Arrival at the hospital & treatment

1:03:00 – Buddy’s recovery

1:05:45 – Personal lessons learned

1:08:00 – Team lessons learned

1:18:50 – Aftermath and healing from the trauma of the event

Important Links

York County SO Documentary – The Many Heroes: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLK7N8kvFjVfs8fzsyDgmTg6ZtbN2UpXPG 

Contact Info: 

Phone 803-230-2106

Email [email protected]

Book Recommendations: 

Dave Grossman - On Killing – ISBN 978-0316040938

Dave Grossman - On Combat – ISBN 978-0964920545

Paul Howe - Leadership and Training for the Fight – ISBN 978-1420889505

Jocko Willink - Discipline Equals Freedom – ISBN 978-1250156945

Description

My guest today is Kris Allshouse.  Kris is the Executive Director of The Regional Training Center (formerly LA County Regional Training Center), a nonprofit organization that provides advanced training to Federal, State and Local Law Enforcement and other first responders as well as military units and international agencies.  Kris is a former tactical operator for a large Southern California agency with extensive operational experience.  Under his guidance, RTC/LACRTC has emerged as one of the top thought leaders and training providers for tactical use of Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (sUAS) in the world.

Timestamps

1:00 - His Career Path

2:50 – The Evolution of sUAS for law enforcement

4:30 – Categories and types of sUAS and their missions

7:25 – Tactical Use of sUAS & Deescalation

11:15 – Crowd and Riot Control 

13:00 – Drones and Robots and the new non-dynamic entry approach

16:34 – Regulatory challenges to sUAS

22:00 – Privacy rights, the Constitution and sUAS

26:15 – The 4th Amendment Consequences of sUAS

27:03 – Weaponizing drones

29:30 – The terrorism threat posed by sUAS

32:30 –Concerns that we are building a dystopian future with sUAS

Books Recommended

Sound Doctrine – Charles Sid Heal – ISBN 9781930051119

Seven Habits of Highly Effective People - Stephen Covey - 9780671708634

Contact Info

Kris Allshouse

[email protected]

17595 Mt Herrmann St.

Fountain Valley, CA 92708

Main Office: (888) 782-4969

Direct: (760) 990-1441

Cell: (816) 721-8440

Description 

My guest today is Dana Vilander.  Dana spent 32 years with the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department with 26 of those years spent with the elite Special Enforcement Bureau (SEB).  In his time at SEB, Dana worked as a K-9, a SWAT operator, and spent 18 years as a tactical paramedic, diver, crew chief, and hoist operator with the Emergency Services Detail.  Because of his extensive and unique experience, Dana has taught TEMS/TCCC/tactical medicine, vertical access, ropes, and rural operations to elite tactical units all over the world. 

Timestamps 

1:31 – Dana’s Career Path 

5:25 – LASD SEB - Emergency Services Detail 

10:35 – The History of TEMS/TCCC 

13:20 – The Military Research That Gave Rise to TCCC 

18:12 – The Origins of Tourniquet Use 

22:01 – Law Enforcement’s Beginnings with TCCC 

24:20 – How to Build and Maintain a TCCC Capability 

29:00 – IFAK Configuration 

32:06 – Controlling Massive Hemorrhaging 

37:34 – Team Based Medical Supplies & Mass Casualty Bags 

41:00 – Making TCCC Training Realistic 

44:35 – The Beginnings of Tactical Ropes Work 

47:50 – Using Cadres to Maintain Domains of Knowledge 

49:05 – Why Teams Need a Tactical Ropes Program 

52:00 – Dana’s Gear Recommendations for Teams 

Books Recommended 

Leadership and Training for the Fight – Paul R Howe – ISBN 978-1420889505 

About Face: The Odyssey of an American Warrior -  Colonel David H. Hackworth and Julie Sherman – ISBN 978-0671695347 

Ranger Dawn: The American Ranger from the Colonial Era to the Mexican War – Robert W. Black – ISBN 9780811736008 

Contact Info 

Dana Vilander - [email protected] 

www.vtctraining.com 

562-896-6884 

Description

My guest today is Chief John Perez.  John recently retired as the Chief of Police for the Pasadena California Police Department. In his nearly 37 years of service to Pasadena, John served at literally all ranks in the department.  During his career, John worked patrol, narcotics, counter-terrorism, and as a SWAT sergeant, lieutenant, and commander, John helped to form the first generation of Pasadena’s tactical team which had the challenge of deploying as a full-time gang enforcement team and a SWAT team for many years.  John was twice awarded the Chief’s medal of excellence and received several commendations for his service over the years.  

Timestamps

1:00 – His childhood and upbringing

2:35 – How the murder of his 14-year-old cousin drove his desire to be a policeman

4:41 – The beginning of his career and training

6:20 – The crimewaves of the 80s and 90s and police response

10:00 - How the Rampart scandal and war on drugs negatively impacted policing

13:12 – The origins of Pasadena PD SES (SWAT)

15:07 – 9/11 and the profound effects it had on Pasadena PD

19:20 – Securing the Rose Parade and Rose Bowl

22:45 – The impact of 9/11 on the Rose Parade and Rose Bowl

25:55 – Returning to SES as the unit Lieutenant 

29:50 – Promoting out of SES to Commander

34:00 – Synthesizing being a “meat eater” with the politics of command

37:15 – How education changes your understanding and beliefs

39:15 – How losing teaches you more than winning

41:35 – Authentic leadership

45:30 – Responding to Occupy Pasadena

54:35 – Leading from your principles in a conflicted environment

1:02:00 – Balancing the tension between lawful protest & protecting the city

1:04:15 – The need to be a student of the profession

1:06:05 – Self-examination and learning from your critics

1:09:35 – How a near-death experience reshaped his views

1:18:00 – Rapid Fire Questions

Books Recommended

12 Rules for Life: An Antidote for Chaos – Jordan Peterson – ISBN 0345816021
Discover Your True North – Bill George – ISBN 0787987514
Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win - Jocko Willink and Leif Babin - ISBN 1250067057
Man’s Search for Meaning – Viktor Frankl - ISBN 080701429X
Quiet Strength: The Principles, Practices, and Priorities of a Winning Life – Tony Dungy – ISBN 1414318022

Contact Info

Chief John Perez (Ret) 

[email protected] 

Description 

My Guests Today are the creators of the California Association of Tactical Officers (CATO) Decision Making Exercise Program (DME), Capt. Toby Darby and Lt. Josh Wofford.  Toby is a 27-year veteran of law enforcement with 20 years spent in tactical units. Toby is a Board Member for the California Association of Tactical Officers and one of the facilitators of the CATO Strategic Leadership Program (SLP).  Lt. Josh Wofford is an 18-year veteran of law enforcement and current SWAT team leader. Josh has a Doctorate in Education from Vanderbilt University and is a Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. 

Timestamps 

1:02 – Their Backgrounds 

2:35 – Origin Stories for the CATO Decision Making Exercises (DME) 

5:45 – Anatomy of a DME - How DME’s work 

8:25 – Group Structure for DMEs 

12:15 – The Science Behind DMEs 

15:05 – Using DMEs to Share and Retain Corporate/Agency Knowledge 

18:35 – Situational Learning Theory 

21:45 – Group Composition 

23:55 – Challenging Confirmation Bias in Decision Making 

26:30 – Using DMEs to Broaden Perspective 

32:10 – Understanding “The Why” in Decision Making 

35:30 – Commander’s Intent and Leadership Thinking 

37:10 – Facilitating a DME – Choosing an Event 

41:06 – Using DME to Stress Test Your Team 

44:10 – Facilitating a DME - Roles and Responsibilities 

48:44 – How DMEs Affect Culture 

51:49 – Building Trust Through DMEs 

55:16 – The Need for Critical Thinking in Organizational Leadership 

59:50 – Using Close Calls and Body Worn Camera Footage to Create Proactive DMEs 

Books Recommended  

Swans, Swine, and Swindlers: Coping with the Growing Threat of Mega-Crises and Mega-Messes, Can M Alpaslan and Ian I. Mitroff – ISBN:  9780804771375 

The Bass Handbook of Leadership: Theory, Research & Managerial Applications, Bernard M. Bass – ISBN: 7770957532 

Thinking Collaboratively: Learning in a Community of Inquiry, D. Randy Garrison – ISBN: 9781138824317 

The Checklist Manifesto: How To Get Things Right, Atul Gawande – ISBN: 9780805091748 

The Laws of Human Nature, Robert Greene – ISBN: 9780525428145 

Thinking Fast and Slow, Daniel Kahneman – ISBN: 9780374275631 

Legacy: 15 Lessons in Leadership, James Kerr – ISBN: 9781472103536 

The 80/20 Principle: The Secret to Achieving More With Less, Richard Koch – ISBN: 9780385491747 

Situated Learning: Legitimate Peripheral Participation, Jean Lave and Etienne Wenger – ISBN: 9780521423748 

Adult Learning: Linking Theory and Practice, Sharan B. Merriam and Laura L. Bierema – ISBN: 9781118416310 

Six Simple Rules: How To Manage Complexity Without Getting Complicated, Yves Morieux and Peter Tollman – ISBN: 9781422190555 

An Introduction to Theories of Learning, Matthew H. Olson and B.R. Hergenhahn – ISBN: 9780131147225 

Leadership BS: Fixing Workplaces and Careers One Truth At A Time, Jeffrey Pfeffer – ISBN: 9780062383167 

Managing the Unexpected: Sustained Performance In A Complex World, Karl E. Weick and Kathleen M. Sutcliffe – ISBN: 9780787996499 

Contact Info 

Capt. Toby Darby 

[email protected] 

Lt. Josh Wofford 

[email protected] 

Description

My Guest Today is Mike Hillman. Mike is a legend in the tactical community with a list of career accomplishments that would take an entire podcast of their own. But as a brief bio he was one of the original founders of LAPD SWAT, a Deputy Chief at LAPD, the Assistant Sheriff in Orange County California and a Chief of Police for the Los Angeles Port Police. He was one of the founders of the National Tactical Officers Association, headed security for the Los Angeles Dodgers, and is a nationally recognized expert on leadership, crisis management, critical incident management, special operations and a wide variety of other subjects.

Timestamps

2:09 – Objectives of an Effective Leader

4:05 – The Need for Introspection

6:38 – Having a Core Guiding Principle

8:05 – The Roots of Decisiveness 

10:00 – Selfless Approaches to Leadership

11:40 – Leadership in Crisis

15:01 – The Willingness to Change Your Mind 

18:04 – Characteristics of Good Leaders

19:30 – Humility and Change Leadership

22:13 – Making Cultural Changes

26:11 – Leading in The Modern Environment

28:15 – Selection Process and Picking the Right People

31:45 – Policing in the Current Social Environment

34:30 – The Constitution v. Our Safety

37:15 – Differentiating Between the Need For Training And Discipline

40:30 – Actions, Intent and The Media 

43:30 – Social Media And Law Enforcement

46:38 – Militarization of Law Enforcement

51:19 – Proactivity: Intervening Early or Creating a Problem

52:30 – Bad Tactics or Bad Technology 

54:45 – Defining SWAT and Their Mission Set

58:03 – How Do Small Agencies Avoid Issues with Their SWAT Team

1:01:00 – Requirements v. Equipment Understanding Your Needs

1:04:45 – Rapid Fire Questions

Books Recommended

Left of Bang: How the Marine Corps' Combat Hunter Program Can Save Your Life by Patrick Van Horne, Jason Riley, Shawn Coyne - ISBN 1936891301

Contact Info

Mike Hillman

[email protected]

Description

My Guest Today is Mike Hillman. Mike is a legend in the tactical community with a list of career accomplishments that would take an entire podcast of their own. But as a brief bio he was one of the original founders of LAPD SWAT, a Deputy Chief at LAPD, the Assistant Sheriff in Orange County California and a Chief of Police for the Los Angeles Port Police. He was one of the founders of the National Tactical Officers Association, headed security for the Los Angeles Dodgers, and is a nationally recognized expert on leadership, crisis management, critical incident management, special operations and a wide variety of other subjects.

Timestamps

1:45 – Mike’s Background

4:05 – The beginnings of LAPD D Platoon (SWAT)

5:35 – Defining Events – International Terrorism, Homegrown Terrorist, & the 1970s

11:12 – The Origins of Crisis Negotiation & LAPDs Approach

17:19 – Development of Hostage Negotiation Tactics

22:20 – 1984 Summer Olympics & Development of SWAT

31:02 – The Evolution of Flashbangs  

33:54 – Developing Bus Assaults Tactics

37:22 – Intelligence Gathering, Pre-scouting, and DARPA Surrogate Travel 

40:45 – Hanafi Muslim Incident Effect on Tactics (Fast Roping & Aerial Platform)

43:19 – Founding of the National Tactical Officers Association (NTOA)

45:14 – The Rock House Epidemic in LA & Origins of Armored Vehicles

47:30 – Law Enforcement & the Military (Demilitarization?)

51:22 – The 1980s and the NTOA

55:10 – Being a Student of the Game – The Need for Research & Study

58:12 – What Makes a Good SWAT Operator

Books Recommended

Left of Bang: How the Marine Corps' Combat Hunter Program Can Save Your Life by Patrick Van Horne, Jason Riley, Shawn Coyne -  ISBN 1936891301

Contact Info

Mike Hillmann

[email protected]

Episode Description - My guest today is Ed Hinchey, a retired Sgt. with the Forest Hills Pennsylvania Police Department. Ed is the survivor of a violent police shooting who was saved by his soft body armor. After retirement Ed became the Director of the Safariland Saves Program. In his capacity as Saves Director, Ed’s job is working with officers who have been shot in the line of duty and saved by their armor. As a result, Ed has likely interacted with more officers shot in the line of duty than anyone in the world. In this interview, Ed discusses witnessing his partner being shot, the first failure of soft body armor by a round it was designed to stop, surviving his own shooting, the aftermath of a shooting, the effects on the officer and their family, as well as the NIJ armor standards past and present. Ed also discusses how to best prepare officers for shootings and how to help them after a shooting occurs.

Timestamps

1:30 – Ed’s Background

2:06 – 6/23/03 - The Edward Limbacher Shooting

4:55 – The NIJ Armor Standards and How They Have Changed

7:05 – Armor Failure – The Zylon Recall and The Old NIJ Standards

11:00 – Frustrations with the Armor Industry

13:23 – The Chronology of Ed’s Shooting 

20:50 – His Injuries 

26:30 – Arrival at the Hospital & Initial Treatment

33:00 – Surgery & Recovery

38:10 – Effects on the Family

45:30 – Community Reaction & News Media

51:14 – Retirement from Law Enforcement 

57:04 – Starting His Second Career with Safariland

1:02:10 – Keys to Surviving a Shooting

1:07:15 – Going Beyond the Academy

1:20:45 - Why Armor Saves Lives

1:25:39 – Behind the Armor – Training Armor

1:30:17 – Mindset and Survival

1:33:14 - Social Media and Survivors

Books Recommended

Meditations by Marcus Aurelius – ISBN 048629823X

The Man in the Arena: Selected Writings by Theodore Roosevelt - ISBN13: 9780765306715

Theodore Roosevelt on Leadership: Executive Lessons from the Bully Pulpit by James Strock – ISBN 0761515399

Sites Recommended

NIJ Armor Standards - https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/body-armor-performance-standards

Safariland Saves - https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIM58xG6QM4flerbP6IU9qgXf7VJ5ZgJ7 

https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-force

Contact Info

Ed Hinchey

Save #941

Safariland Saves Program

[email protected]

Description

My guests today are the hosts of the very successful California Association of Tactical Officers (CATO) Podcast, Brent Stratton, and Marcus Sprague. Brent is the Assistant Chief at a Southern California Police Department and the President of the California Tactical Officers Association (CATO). Marcus is a recently retired Lieutenant at a Northern California PD and the Vice President of CATO. Both Brent and Marcus are graduates of the CARO Strategic Leadership Program.

Timestamps

1:05 - Marcus's background (CATO and SWAT)

2:55 - Brent's background (CATO and SWAT)

6:52 - The Evolution of CATO 

10:00 - Role of CATO and regional associations

12:45 - Hot topics in California

15:00 - CATO's role in helping defining mission-readiness 

17:30 - The importance of identifying areas for improvement

19:30 – The need for debriefs and lessons learned

24:10 – Understanding the why in training

30:45 – CATO Decision Making Exercises

36:55 - Anecdotal evidence vs hard data in law enforcement

41:00 - Transparency and the gap in the story about law enforcement

51:10 - Origin of CATO Podcast

1:00:50 - The Future of CATO 

1:09:04 - How to contact CATO (and the power of the community)

1:13:04 - How to join or become involved with CATO

Books Recommended

Field Command by Sid Heal

Sound Doctrine: A Tactical Primer by Sid Heal

Contact Info

CATO Website - catonews.org

CATO Podcast on Apple Podcasts

Marcus Sprague – [email protected]

Brent Stratton - [email protected] 

For more information, check out our website at thedebrief.live

Episode Description – In this episode, we take a deep dive into LAPD D-Platoon (aka SWAT) with Lee McMillion, one of the two Lieutenants who currently lead the unit.  We discuss the history of SWAT, the current configuration of the team, the specialized cadres within the team, and what happens when the team is activated.  We also discuss how they select the right personnel, leading a team of high achievers, maintaining high standards, and trying to support personnel who are constantly engaged in dangerous and potentially traumatic events.  

Today’s Guest - Lt. Lee McMillion. Lee is currently one of the two Lieutenants leading the Los Angeles Police Departments Metropolitan Division D-Platoon - also known as LAPD SWAT. In total, Lee has spent 33 years as a Los Angeles Policeman of which 23 years have been spent at Metro, 21 with D-Platoon.  Lee is one of only three men to have ever served at all possible ranks at D-Platoon (Officer, Plus 1, Sgt, and Lt.).   Lee has been an element member, an element leader, a squad leader and is currently a Platoon Leader.  In his career, Lee has participated in well over a thousand tactical operations with a wide variety of mission sets.  

Topics Discussed

01:10 - Lee’s Career History 

03:20 – History of LAPD D-Platoon (SWAT)

06:30 – Black Panther and SLA Incidents

08:00 – Origins of the name “SWAT”

10:30 – 1984 LA Olympics and effect on D-Platoon 

14:15 – Current Configuration & Responsibilities of D-Platoon

16:30 – Capabilities of the team & the cadre system

19:59 – TEMS & Tactical Medics 

22:45 – Demographics of the Average D-Platoon Operators 

26:00 – Criteria and Process for Activating SWAT 

29:30 – Crisis Negotiation System – Every Operator is a Negotiator

32:00 – Misconceptions about SWAT – Statistics for SWAT

37:00 – “Militarization” of Law Enforcement

40:45 – Choosing the Right People – Personnel Selection

46:00 – Maintaining High Standards with Strong Personalities

49:00 – Building and Maintaining the Right Culture 

52:25 – Effects of Social Media on Different Personality Types

55:25 – The Tension Between Social Media and Professionalism

58:00 – Rapid Fire Questions 

1:02:00 - Most Profound Career Memory

Books Referenced

The Culture Code: The Secrets of Highly Successful Groups by Daniel Coyle – ASIN B00AN2KTKQ

Legacy: What the All Blacks Can Teach Us About the Business of Life by James Kerr - ISBN 9780804176989

Contact Info

https://www.lapdonline.org/office-of-the-chief-of-police/office-of-special-operations/metropolitan-division/swat/

LAPD SWAT Instagram - @lapd.swat

 Check out our website at thedebrief.live

Episode Description – This is the second of a broad reaching two-part interview with Sid. In this second episode, we discuss the origins of his study and writings on tactical science and take a deeper dive into several concepts in tactical science like initiative and maneuver in time and space. We also dig into Sid’s views on leadership and take an emotional reflection on his responsibilities to those he led.

This episode of The Debrief is in honor of Sid Heal who passed away on May 24th, 2022, shortly before this episode aired. We remember Sid as a force in the special tactics community, as a war veteran, as a celebrated author, and as a commander of the LA Sheriff’s Department. A site has been created in honor of Sid that you can visit at www.sidheal.com

Guest – Charles “Sid” Heal.  Sid is a legend in the special tactics’ community and a key figure in the history and evolution of special tactics in the United States. Sid is a retired CWO5 in the United States Marine Corps serving numerous combat deployments including the Vietnam War, The Gulf War, and Operation United Shield in Somalia. Sid is also a retired Commander from the LA County Sheriff’s Department, has worked in the Special Enforcement Bureau, the Emergency Operations Bureau, and a wide variety of other assignments. Sid is one of the most prolific authors on tactical topics having authored several books and hundreds of articles. Sid has taught at the US Army War College and is the former president of the California Association of Tactical Officers.

Topics Discussed

3:18      Short background on Sound Doctrine

6:23     Public perception of police use of violence vs reality

13:08    Origin of Sid’s writing career: combining doctrines of law enforcement and military

19:38    Key concepts in Sid’s books (end state, training vs education, maneuvering in time, etc.)

36:48    Writing tactical books that are widely accessible through simplifying concepts    

39:18    The importance of tactical science (understanding the rationale behind decisions, etc.)

43:53    Sid’s recommended reading list (from Officer to Lieutenant)

48:42    Rapid-fire questions (most important habit, leader vs manager, most important trait for teams/leaders, if he could have dinner with anybody, who it would be, etc.)

Links and Books Referenced

Sound Doctrine by Charles “Sid” Heal - ISBN 9781930051119

Field Command by Charles "Sid" Heal – ISBN 9781590563441

Please find Sid’s recommended reading list at thedebrief.live/the-list

Other Places to See and Hear Sid 

CATO Podcast – www.catonews.org

https://catopodcast.podbean.com/e/concepts-of-non-lethal-force-with-sid-heal/

https://catopodcast.podbean.com/e/concepts-of-non-lethal-force-with-sid-heal-part-2-of-2/

For more information, check out our website at thedebrief.live

The Debrief with Jon Becker launches June 8th. Please enjoy this trailer. 

The Debrief is an interview-based podcast that tells the stories of the leaders of some of the world’s top law enforcement and military units – individuals who navigate dangerous situations with their highly effective teams every day. 

Jon Becker founded AARDVARK at just seventeen years old. The company started out as a climbing equipment business, often selling gear to SWAT teams and operators. After attending law school and working in police litigation, Becker realized that the best way he could serve tactical operators was by producing and providing high quality gear and products that would enhance operator safety on the job. After AARDVARK’s expansion and success, Becker founded PROJECT7, a provider of purpose-built, scalable, and configurable tactical platforms. Throughout this decades-long journey, Becker has learned invaluable lessons about the lives and work of law enforcement and tactical operators, leading him to a deep understanding of the principles and core values behind highly effective teams. After keynoting for many years on the leadership of elite units and what he terms “culture-centric” leadership, Becker is putting those lessons into The Debrief, a non-profit podcast that serves the wider public.