14 avsnitt • Längd: 55 min • Månadsvis
Manufacturing and industrial environments provide their own unique
challanges for wireless communications. Harsh conditions, both indoors and
out, create a daunting task for engineers work through. This is where we
come to discuss those challenges, share ideas and help one another out.
My name is Scott McNeil and welcome to the Industrial Wi-Fi Shop
The podcast The Industrial Wi-Fi Shop Podcast is created by Scott McNeil. The podcast and the artwork on this page are embedded on this page using the public podcast feed (RSS).
Advantech CVE
https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/critical-vulnerabilities/
Wireless and 5g impact on smart manufacturing
Cisco CURWB CVE’s
https://thehackernews.com/2024/11/cisco-releases-patch-for-critical-urwb.html
Mobility Field Day 12 Announcement
WiFi and CURWB simultaneously
Drones in manufacturing
Siemens
Phoenix Contact
Waveriders Collective
R3
Fortinet
Aunex
RTLS? Are any listeners deploying this? Send us an email.
Sub Gig
Wi-Fi 7 possibilities in Industry, manufacturing and safety
Oscium/Metageek
old friends
WLAN Pi
WLPC 2025
WiCo
-Chapel Hill NC- 5/14 -Scott presenting on …
-Nashville 5/29- Jeremy possible presentation on CURWB
What’s coming up for the IWS in 2025?
Contact the guys at the Industrial Wi-Fi Shop!
Scott – [email protected]
Jeremy – [email protected]
R-Coax Deep Dive
High Level
It goes by several names, but most commonly referred to (by me) as leaky coax. You may have heard of:
The standard boiler plate use cases are AGV systems, overhead cranes, rotating machinery, skillet systems, monorails, mining, even tunnels in some cellular applications. We deploy it in these scenarios and also entertainment applications.
This stuff is a pain to get in, stiff and easy to damage if you aren’t careful. Siemens documentation says it has a spatially limited radio link, but the stuff can be detected up to 30 meters away if using enough power from the radio.
The main benefit is that it replaces things like slip rings where constant flexing of ethernet cables leads to wear and failure.
RF Propagation
Installation
There is a ridge on the back side of the transmission surface, which is used to align the cable. Make sure your antenna is on the side of the remote antenna.
Not intended to be mounted directly to surfaces, requires standoffs with a minimum of about 5cm.
Secure with a clip at least every meter. There are metal reinforced clips available for more secure mounting and can be interspersed every 10 meters. YMMV
DO NOT MOUNT CLOSE TO BUS BARS!!!
A 480 bus bar is an electrical connection point that distributes and transports electricity.
SHOEs or Induction of current. Think of a trolley.
<— Wanna hear about how I got shocked?
Some radio vendors recommend overlap, some don’t.
Can be installed outdoors. If it is in danger of being stepped on you can protect with something like cable tray. <— Picked this tip up from some smart guys on a carousel installation
A hacksaw file and a few wrenches is all you really need to put the N-Type connectors on the end. Don’t use snips.
You can also use rubber pipe wrenches to help grip for twisting the cable as you lay it or fix misalignments.
Best Practices
Keep the antenna within 1” to 2 meters, you can get away with a longer distance though. The signal will degrade the further you get away from the cable. If you can reach out and touch the coax, you should be good to go.
Don’t put it in channels.
Check the alignment with the ridge, then check it again every few weeks after initial install make sure it settles into the installation. This stuff will relax after some time.
Don’t get shocked, or do, but don’t say I didn’t warn you. Keep it the minimum distance from high voltage rails.
Keep the remote antenna in line with the central axis of the EM field.
Mind the bend radius.
Torque stripe the cable at the clips for easy visual inspection. Do this after the cable has settled.
Don’t install the radio in EX zones (Class1, Div 2 – explosive zones),
cable is passive so treat it like an antenna
Be mindful of common outdoor, corrosive environments and follow the same component sealing best practices.
Not sure about direct burial of this stuff, but it might work.
Typically we only use this as SISO, though it appears ProSoft will allow you to install using two tx chains.
You can dual feed and use something like a UNII-1 and UNII-2 channel to send signals from both ends.
This is an exotic application so be wary of the hardware you use.
Angling antennas slightly improves performance.
Fun Stuff
My most famous project and probably the only one I can talk about with much detail is the Secret Life of Pets ride in Universal Studios Hollywood. Got it in right before Covid locked everything down.
We won an award for this ride.
It is what is referred to as an omni mover. The cable is installed inside the machine guarding and has tons of bends and turns in it.
A few takeaways, not all unions are the same, which is fun. I learned about the delicate nature of sitting around waiting on someone who has no idea what they are doing install hardware while I scream internally. Mostly good people, so don’t take this as a total knock against union workers.
We made some on the fly brackets after the custom client brackets we built hit some stuff in line of travel which wasn’t supposed to be there. Amazing what you can do with bar stock, a bench vise, a step bit, and a hammer.
We got to figure out how to make the Fluidmesh radios work with this cable. So that was fun.
Acceltex Clear Antennas
End of show question
How would you apply RCoax at your site?
How does Fluidity work vs traditional 802.11 communications? Might be a good topic for an upcoming episode.
Links Referenced:
Siemens
ProSoft
Others
If you would like to connect with me or learn more about my employer, Global Process Automation (GPA), then check the following:
Scott McNeil – https://www.linkedin.com/in/americanmcneil/
GPA – https://www.global-business.net/
If you would like to connect with Jeremy or learn more about his employer, Prism Systems Inc, then check the following:
Jeremy Baker – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyabaker/
Prism Systems Inc – https://www.prismsystems.com/
If you would like to know more about our guests, check them out on LinkedIn:
Heath Weeks – https://www.linkedin.com/in/heath-weeks-3346a81a/
Gerdau Special Steel – https://gsn.gerdau.com/
If you would like to connect with me or learn more about my employer, Global Process Automation (GPA), then check the following:
Scott McNeil – https://www.linkedin.com/in/americanmcneil/
GPA – https://www.global-business.net/
If you would like to connect with Jeremy or learn more about his employer, Prism Systems Inc, then check the following:
Jeremy Baker – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyabaker/
Prism Systems Inc – https://www.prismsystems.com/
If you would like to know more about our guests, check them out on LinkedIn:
Vic Paraenglo – https://www.linkedin.com/in/victorparangelo/
Prosoft Technology wireless products – https://www.prosoft-technology.com/Products/Industrial-Wireless
If you would like to connect with me or learn more about my employer, Global Process Automation (GPA), then check the following:
Scott McNeil – https://www.linkedin.com/in/americanmcneil/
GPA – https://www.global-business.net/
If you would like to connect with Jeremy or learn more about his employer, Prism Systems Inc, then check the following:
Jeremy Baker – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyabaker/
Prism Systems Inc – https://www.prismsystems.com/
This is what my 900MHz signal generator looks like in spectrum analysis. It’s definitely a unique signature from the Density view at the top to the Waterfall view in the middle. You can also see in the bottom panel how it just eats up airtime utilization.
If you would like to know more about our guests, check them out on LinkedIn:
Jeremy Baker – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyabaker/
If you would like to connect with me or learn more about my employer, Global Process Automation (GPA), then check the following:
Scott McNeil – https://www.linkedin.com/in/americanmcneil/
Sources/Resources:
If you would like to know more about our guests, check them out on LinkedIn:
Jeremy Baker – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyabaker/
If you would like to connect with me or learn more about my employer, Global Process Automation (GPA), then check the following:
Scott McNeil – https://www.linkedin.com/in/americanmcneil/
GPA – https://www.global-business.net/
If you would like to know more about our guests, check them out on LinkedIn:
Jeremy Baker – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyabaker/
If you would like to connect with me or learn more about my employer, Global
Process Automation (GPA), then check the following:
Scott McNeil – https://www.linkedin.com/in/americanmcneil/
GPA – https://www.global-business.net/
https://semfionetworks.com/blog/ble-advertisment-channels/ (Francois from Clear to Send)
https://www.phoenixcontact.com/en-us/technologies/communication-technologies/industrial-bluetooth
https://response.nordicsemi.com/the-complete-guide-to-bluetooth-low-energy
https://blog.nordicsemi.com/getconnected/things-you-should-know-about-bluetooth-range
https://www.u-blox.com/en/blogs/insights/seven-reasons-why-bluetooth-perfect-industrial-iot
If you would like to know more about our guests, check them out on LinkedIn:
Jeremy Baker – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyabaker/
If you would like to connect with me or learn more about my employer, Global Process Automation (GPA), then check the following:
Scott McNeil – https://www.linkedin.com/in/americanmcneil/
Wireless network design can be very challenging. However there are distinct differences in design depending on the environment. This is part two of a round table discussion of four wireless engineers, two who work primarily in the enterprise realm and two from the world of industry and manufacturing.
The discussion covers the differences and similarities across multiple topics, including:
We discuss many of our favorite tools, most of which are linked below:
https://www.metageek.com/chanalyzer
https://www.printables.com/model/265668-wlan-pi-r4-fascia-essentials
If you would like to know more about our guests, check them out on LinkedIn:
Mark Houtz – https://www.linkedin.com/in/markhoutz/
Ali Mohammad – https://www.linkedin.com/in/mali77/
Jeremy Baker – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyabaker/
If you would like to connect with me or learn more about my employer, Global Process Automation (GPA), then check the following:
Scott McNeil – https://www.linkedin.com/in/americanmcneil/
Wireless network design can be very challenging. However there are distinct differences in design depending on the environment. This is part one of a round table discussion of four wireless engineers, two who work primarily in the enterprise realm and two from the world of industry and manufacturing.
The discussion covers the differences and similarities across multiple topics, including:
We discuss many of our favorite tools, most of which are linked below:
https://www.metageek.com/chanalyzer
https://www.printables.com/model/265668-wlan-pi-r4-fascia-essentials
If you would like to know more about our guests, check them out on LinkedIn:
Mark Houtz – https://www.linkedin.com/in/markhoutz/
Ali Mohammad – https://www.linkedin.com/in/mali77/
Jeremy Baker – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyabaker/
If you would like to connect with me or learn more about my employer, Global Process Automation (GPA), then check the following:
Scott McNeil – https://www.linkedin.com/in/americanmcneil/
WirelessHART and ISA100.11a are two wireless protocols designed specifically for industrial applications. Based on the IEEE 802.15.4 wireless standards and utilizing Direct Sequence Spread Spectrum, these protocols provide robust and reliable low data rate wireless communications for a variety of industrial sensors and sometimes even controls.
While I dont have captures of these two protocols specifically, I do have several examples of what Frequency Hoping Spread Spectrum (FHSS) and DSSS looks like in spectrum analysis. The images below are examples of FHSS and DSSS from several different device deployments. While these are FHSS and DSSS, they are running on top of proprietary protocols as opposed to IEEE 802.15.4.
The image above is from a deployment of Lorex LW2232 wireless cameras utilizing FHSS across the 2.4GHz spectrum. The deployment consisted of twelve cameras and transceivers all transmitting at their full power capacity of 16dBm. As you can see, at these levels they were disrupting the coexisting Wi-Fi due to the high utilization.
This is a capture I took in my lab while testing several Phoenix Contact RAD900 Wireless IO devices. These run on a proprietary protocol on 900MHz, but still used DSSS for frequency transmission. You can see the communication is very organized and while there is a lot of data going back and forth, the actual bursts of communication are very small. This helps dramatically with contention for airtime.
This capture was from a network of Banner Engineering 900MHz sensors around a waste water treatment facility. Though there were over twenty devices in the network, you can see that there is plenty of airtime and no contention. Though Banner uses proprietary protocols, DSSS keeps the data flowing reliably and continuously.
If you would like to learn more about WirelessHART, check out these links:
FieldComm Group: https://www.fieldcommgroup.org/technologies/wirelesshart
If you would like to learn more about ISA100 wireless, check out these links:
Yokogawa – https://web-material3.yokogawa.com/fld-field-test-report-vol01.pdf
Rfwireless-world – https://www.rfwireless-world.com/Tutorials/ISA100-wireless-tutorial.html
ISA100 and the OSI Model – https://isa100wci.org/about-isa100-wireless/isa100-and-the-osi-model
If you would like to connect with me or learn more about my employer, Global Process Automation (GPA), then check the following:
Scott McNeil – https://www.linkedin.com/in/americanmcneil/
Jim Palmer came into the shop to talk about Radio Frequency (RF), how antennas work and propagate RF energy. Jim packs quite a bit of knowledge into this conversation and I had to take notes!
The conversation gets fairly deep into Equivalent Isotropic Radiated Power, or EIRP, which is the total radiated power from a transmitter antenna times the numerical directivity of the antenna in the direction of the receiver, or the power delivered to the antenna times the antenna numerical gain.
At one point in the discussion, we talk about the Tacoma Narrows bridge and how it collapsed due to a phenomena known as harmonics. Here is a link to a video of that event: https://youtu.be/j-zczJXSxnw?si=zCXid0Pr8ZJ97knu .
If you would like to know more about the incident, check the Wikipedia page here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Narrows_Bridge_(1940)
Jim can be found on both LinkedIn and Twitter/X: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-palmer-09363615a/ and at @WirelessJimP respectively. He also blogs extensively and is considered an authority on RF and antennas by those in the wireless community. You can find his blog at: https://jimswirelessworld.wordpress.com/
If you would like to know more about Ruckus Wireless, you can find them on the web at: https://www.ruckusnetworks.com/
If you would like to connect with me or learn more about my employer, Global Process Automation (GPA), then check the following:
Scott McNeil – https://www.linkedin.com/in/americanmcneil/
Episode 2 brings Jeremy Baker into the shop to talk with me about industrial wireless safety and mobility. From theme park rides to heavy industrial equipment, we cover a lot of material so be sure to pay attention.
One of the places we discuss is Kelly Slaters Surf Ranch. If you would like to see what that place is like, check out the link: https://youtu.be/AXtVnLe2SUc?si=W4iOo17xdmDXcsOX
If you would like to connect with Jeremy on LinkedIn and know more about his employer, Prism Systems, see below:
Jeremy Baker – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyabaker/
Prism Systems – https://www.prismsystems.com/
Finally, if you would like to connect with me or learn more about my employer, Global Process Automation (GPA), then check the following:
Scott McNeil – https://www.linkedin.com/in/americanmcneil/
In this first episode, I joined by Justin Shade from Phoenix Contact to discuss the importance of wireless assessments in industrial and manufacturing and how they should be an essential part of any new wireless projects.
Justin can be found on LinkedIn at – https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-shade-a44817b/
If you would like to learn more about Phoenix Contact and their line of industrial wireless gear, check them out at https://www.phoenixcontact.com/en-us/products/industrial-communication/industrial-wireless
Thanks for listening and I hope you hang around for the next episode!
A quick snippet of a conversation between myself and Justin Shade from Phoenix contact
En liten tjänst av I'm With Friends. Finns även på engelska.