The Last Human Voice Podcast

Ah, the excitement of Tax Return season!

In this episode, we double down on the joys of Tax. Specifically, we're talking about tax relief in film productions. Why? Because, in a departure from the previous government, Labour recently introduced new rules that mean AI-related costs are subject to tax relief.

Sam Radclyffe is an Entertainment & Media Rights Executive, Producer and Entrepreneur. We've spoken with Sam before in our episode, "Own your Clone", in his role as founder of Galatea, a Digital Twin Library and Management Company. His multiple professional "hats" give him a broad perspective on the implications of the changes and what they mean for people working in the world of Film production.

Between 2020 and 2024, the UK has had four Prime Ministers and a long running  game of Musical Chairs in the relevant government departments. What we still don't have is a unified, coherent policy on AI and Artists' Rights. 
In this episode, our guest is Nicola Solomon, a solicitor, consultant on policy and law in the creative industries and, until recently, the Chair of the Creators' Rights Alliance.
What progress has she seen in the last few years and what hope has that given her for what might be expected from a Labour government?
Moreover, what can we as individuals do to make our voices heard?

Since this episode was recorded in December, the UK government has launched its AI and Copyright Consultation, which will be open until 25th February 2025.

Dr Mathilde Pavis has questions. A lot of questions. Which she likes to spring on her unsuspecting co-hosts. 

In the previous episode, Patrick Messe from United Voice Artists talked about the difficulty of engaging policymakers and regulators on Artists' Rights, when there are wars happening and governments collapsing.

It's a fair question - and for artists and creatives of all types - an existential one: why, with so much happening in the world, should we care about artists and campaign for their rights?

One of our previous guests, Patrick Messe, of United Voice Artists returns for a crossover episode between The Last Human Voice and Mic Rider Deep Talk, Patrick's own podcast.

We talk about the Brussels Effect, kicking off our chat in Germany, which allows us to do some Compare and Contrast. What impact has the EU AI Act had since its introduction in the summer of 2024?

What can we learn from the first legal actions testing the law in Germany and from German academics trying to clarify the boundaries of copyright infringement? 

And last, but not least, what has that got to do with Mathilde's feet?

Mathilde hijacks this episode with a question directed at co-hosts, Marcus and Annette. No warning. No prepping.
They hesitate, they prevaricate, they talk about moving to Alaska. But do they answer the question?
You'll have to listen to find out.

Most discussions about AI start with topic of "data mining". 
But how many of us are clear about what it is and how it works? And how can we be expected to care about something if we don't understand what it is?
Even leaders, decision makers, artists, creatives - all of us - need a safe space to go and learn about it without the pressure or judgement.
This episode is that safe space.

In the first episode of Season 2, we look at the role of AI in Journalism.  Are journalists facing a vicious cycle of generating click bait to drive revenue to keep media companies afloat to pay journalists to generate more click bait? Is AI making it worse - or might it offer a more positive future for journalism?
Our guest, Pete Pachal of Media CoPilot is of the latter opinion. He is confident that AI can liberate journalists from the more onerous, less rewarding tasks that have always been part of the job, allowing them to focus on the human side of the stories they cover. He also introduces us to Channel 1, a news channel in the making, which promises a "personalized global news network", fronted by entirely AI generated presenters, breaking real, factually accurate news.
As you'll imagine, we have questions...

Copyright Law is in our sights as we reach our Season 1 finale.
 
 Dr Andres Guadamuz is a Reader in Intellectual Property Law at the University of Sussex and the Editor in Chief of the Journal of World Intellectual Property. He is also the brain and pen behind the online publication ‘TechnoLlama’.
He joins us to answer some of our many questions about what protection Copyright can - and cannot - offer artists and creatives. 

What does "Fair Use" really mean? What constitutes copyright infringement? Do rulings in different countries mean anything abroad? And, crucially, what is a TechnoLlama?

Let's talk about death. 

Have you considered how you want your digital remains (yes, that's the correct term) to be treated after you're gone?

Photos on Facebook, TikTok videos, LinkedIn profiles, demos, self-tapes, emails sent and received; everything you have ever uploaded or shared, whether personally or professionally, will digitally outlive you.

Dr Edina Harbinja is a Reader in Media and Privacy Law at the University of Aston. She is a pioneer and expert in her field and author of the book, "Digital Death, Digital Assets and Post-mortem Privacy".
She joins us to explain more about our digital remains, what is and is not protected by existing legislation and how we might be able to better protect our digital legacies.

And you can read "Digital Remains and Post-mortem Privacy in the UK: What do users want?" co-authored by Dr Harbinja at:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4813651

What does it look like to do business with clones in a way which puts the artist at the centre of the deal? 

That's not just our question, but the question posed by Sam Radclyffe. Sam is an experienced entertainment and media rights executive, film producer, and entrepreneur. His answer is Galatea Holdings.

Galatea is a Digital Twin Library and Management Company, which proposes a different business model from the ones we've seen so far.  The aim is to partner with artists and performers in shared ownership of your clone, ensuring that you retain control of your digital twin.

Sam shares his own observations of the industry, how it treats artists and Intellectual Property rights and how a fresh approach might help keep humans at the heart of the industry.

In this episode we take a look at very recent deals that tech giants have made with media and content platforms to train their AI models, with consent. We are asking: is the tide turning for training AI towards a licensing model, and away from crawling the web in the wild? 

In recent months Open AI has made deals with at least 11 companies, to access their content for the purpose of training AI technologies. Those companies include Shutterstock, Le Monde, News Corp, The Financial Times, Vox Media and the Associated Press. 

What might  this mean for freelancers contracting with those companies in future  ? And have the tech giants got themselves a cheap deal ?

The story of UVA (United Voice Artists) is a lesson in organising, not just for Creative Workers, but for everyone affected by AI - which is to say, Everyone.

Co-President, Patrick Messe, explains the urgent need for representation that brought together unions, guilds and other professional bodies, ahead of the EU AI Act. Their cross border collaboration  ensured their voices were heard by politicians and legislators.

From France to Turkey, Poland to South America, they have focussed on their shared purpose of protecting Artists' rights, preserving human creativity and safeguarding the livelihoods of their members.

And the story isn't over yet. 

To read the UVA Guidelines visit: https://unitedvoiceartists.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/UVA-AI-GUIDLINES.pdf

Should the creation of Deepfakes be a protected right under the banner of Free Speech?
How do existing laws balance our right to Free Speech with our Right to Privacy?
Dr Dimitri Kagiaros is Assistant Professor in Law at the University of Durham and an expert on the regulation of Freedom of Expression. He has written extensively on the topic and his work has influenced changes in the law to preserve freedom of expression.
Most recently, he has collaborated with our own Dr Mathilde Pavis on a (soon to be published) paper which examines whether freedom of expression can be interpreted to create a ‘right to’ deepfake people with - or, more controversially -  without their consent.
So, what might the legal parameters be for content creators wishing to exploit Deepfake technology for artistic, commercial or even personal use?
We're so glad you asked...

This time, we get a philosopher's take on AI.

Jumbly Grindrod is a lecturer in philosophy at the University of Reading. He specializes in the philosophy of language and epistemology, which refers to the theory of knowledge itself.

Does it - or should it - matter to us whether AI or a human being is talking, writing or engaging with us?
What happens when we start regarding Artificial Intelligence as sentient or human? 
And does generative AI bring anything new, in terms of questions, concepts or challenges, to a philosopher... or is it just a new shape given to  age-old questions about what is real and what it means to be fully human?

In this episode, we select from the latest AI stories that have grabbed the headlines  or slipped by stealth into our feeds. 
From the miscommunication that made Mamma Mia actor, Sara Poyzer, trend on Twitter, to the discovery of Marvin Gaye's long lost demos, we look at legislation, regulation and how artists and creative performers are responding to the relentless pace of AI development.
When - if ever - is it acceptable to put words in someone's mouth?  Can Voluntary Codes provide sufficient protection for human content creators? And could your digital avatar still be performing and creating, long after your final curtain call?

Much of the fear generated by AI is about theft; the companies that own  the technology will steal your image, replicate your voice and replace you with an AI version of you that takes your job.
But perhaps it doesn't have to be that way.

Since their collaboration on the documentary "Gerry Anderson: A Life Uncharted", Ben Field and Jamie Anderson have continued to work together under the banner of their production company, Deep Fusion Films. Their pioneering use of AI, coupled with their ethical approach to its use in film making means that they are now regularly consulted by industry partners and organisations looking to use AI responsibly.

They talk to us about how their own approach has developed, how they envisage the future of AI in film and whether they have found an "ick" line in AI use that they're not prepared to cross...

How would it feel to see a digital deepfake of someone you love who has died?  What would you need to consider before  agreeing to create it?
Jamie Anderson and Ben Field can answer both of these questions and more. 

"Gerry Anderson: A Life Uncharted" is their 2022 documentary about the life and work of Gerry Anderson, TV and film producer, director, write and technical pioneer - and Jamie's father.

Together, Ben and Jamie crafted a fascinating and often moving documentary from hours of film footage, TV programmes, photos and interviews. They also created a deepfake version of Jamie's Dad to bring his own words back to life.

They talk in detail about their pioneering work in merging AI technology with content that is profoundly human.

 

Dr Dominic Lees is an award-winning filmmaker and director. He is also Associate Professor of Filmmaking at the University of Reading, with a research specialism in deepfakes.  In 2019, "Virtual Maggie" was among his projects, exploring how AI technology could be used to resurrect Margaret Thatcher for a contemporary drama called  "Rebel Bus".

Dr Lees joined us for an in-depth discussion of the practical and ethical questions raised by digital deepfakes.  How far has AI come since 2019? What creative tensions can result from using technology that's still in development? And why, of all the people one could "resurrect", did he choose Margaret Thatcher?

Who is going to own your clone? Who gets to control your digital double after you're dead? And what kind of deal can unions do for the departed?

In the second of two episodes dedicated to unpicking  the SAG-AFTRA Deal, we move on from the rules and requirements for the creation and use of "employment-based replicas". These are replicas tied to specific motion pictures.

Our focus this time is on "independently created digital replicas": those that have been created by the performer themselves (or other companies and agencies) for use in any project - now, or in the future...

On the 14th of July 2023, the American actors’ union ‘SAG-AFTRA’ joined the strike already begun by the WGA (Writers' Guild of America.)  The dispute with the AMPTP (Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers) was about pay, working conditions and AI.

An interim deal was struck in November and approved by SAG-AFTRA members on the 5th of December 2023.

So, what's in the deal and what do we think of it?