Churches are supposed to be places of community, hospitality, and refuge, but what about when they're not? Many denominations and congregations routinely exclude LGBTQ people and that totally sucks. In this episode, Matt and Dean talk with Sarah Ngu, a comrade who works with Religious Socialism as well as with an organization called Church Clarity. Sarah explains possible ways to sort out the sheep from the goats of affirming churches and possible solutions to the vague statements concerning the openness and acceptance of LGBTQ people.