Brain Hancock hosts Colonel Tony Vacha
They discuss his experiences as the Civil Affairs planning chief for the US Army Europe and Africa,
as well as his thoughts on the new Civil Affairs 38-Golf program and discussions about the new transitional governance doctrine.
This is part one of a two-part episode, so stay tuned.
Special thanks to LC38 for celebrating our People's Choice Awards nomination by offering listeners 10 percent off anything at the site. Check them out at https://lc38brand.com/
10% promo code: oneca10
One Podcast aims to inspire people interested in working on-ground to forward U.S. foreign policy.
We bring in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences and recommendations for working the "last three feet" of foreign relations.
Have a story to tell? Email us to either speak or guest-host at: [email protected]
One CA Podcast is a product of the Civil Affairs Association: https://www.civilaffairsassoc.org/
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Transcript
00:00:03 Introduction
Welcome to the 1CA podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting at gmail .com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www .civilaffairsassos .org. I'll have those in the show notes. A quick shout out to LC38 Brand. They're offering 10 % off for 1CA Podcast fans. The promo code is 1CA10. LC38 Brand has a little bit of everything for the international adventurer. So check out their website at lc38brand .com. I'll have the promo code and the address in the show notes.
00:01:00 BRIAN HANCOCK
Welcome to One Civil Affairs Podcast. I'm Lieutenant Crump Brian Hancock, and I will be your host for this session.
00:01:07 Introduction
Today, Brian Hancock hosts Colonel Tony Vaja. They discuss his experiences as the Civil Affairs Planning Chief for U .S. Army Europe and Africa, as well as his thoughts on the new Civil Affairs 38 Golf Program and discussions about the new Transitional Governance Doctrine. This is part one of a two -part episode, so stay tuned.
00:01:27 BRIAN HANCOCK
I have with me in the studio, Colonel Tony Vaja. Colonel Vaja, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Outstanding. Let's give you a little bit of background. Colonel Vaja is currently the civil affairs planning chief for the U .S. Army Europe and Africa. He has previously served for two years as the deputy commander of the 353rd Civil Affairs Command in Staten Island, New York. He has had a range of assignments in both civil affairs and force management. He served as the lead concept developer for the 38 Gulf career field and the development of the Institute for Military Support to Governance. Quick reminder for the audience that all remarks by myself and Colonel Vaja are ours solely, and they do not represent the views of the U .S. Army or Department of Defense. Well, Colonel Vaja, you have done so many things in your 31 years of military service that I'm not sure where to begin. Okay, all right. Your assignment as Deputy Commander of the 353 Civil Affairs Command, KCOM. Many of us will not have that opportunity to be a DCG of a KCOM, and the KCOMs are growing. What is that experience like? What is it like to be at that pinnacle position in civil affairs, be the deputy commander of a formation that is very nearly the size of division?
00:02:57 TONY VACHA
Yeah, it's a fun and exciting assignment. I always joke if you're going to come serve at a KCOM, whether DCO or in the G3, you need to make sure you come with your running shoes on. As DCO, I was blessed to work for two really strong civil affairs generals, General Tim Brennan and later General Dean Thompson, and watch them and get their thoughts on civil affairs and how to support a theater. I appreciate that commentary.
00:03:25 BRIAN HANCOCK
that commentary. As you're well aware from your work in Proponency and your lengthy service, the bulk of civil affairs originally came out of Special Operations Commander and the USASOC. And as a result, we are very tactically focused. And when you look at what we do in war games and exercises, I've never seen an operational or strategic civil affairs war game or exercise. So that work that you were doing at the strategic level at the KCOM, Any thoughts you can share? Because it seems to me the gulf between what we do tactically versus how we make that operational strategic civil affairs leap is vast.
00:04:05 TONY VACHA
leap is vast. Yeah, I think it's challenging in terms of how we allocate forces to a GCC or an ASCC is uniquely different than the tactical mission set. And, you know, I had the privilege of serving at the KCOM twice. the deputy G3. And so I got to watch through exercises, austere challenge, judicious response, civil affairs planning teams. And we've had some really strong colonels at 353. And when they take a mission, they lead it and execute it. And I've been privileged to see some of these colonels work at these headquarters. And it becomes an issue of the amount of time to spend someone up. on whatever the problem set is, right? The faster someone can do that, the more agile they are for the customer, whether it be the GCC or ASCC.
00:05:01 BRIAN HANCOCK
Outstanding. Let's continue in this vein on operational and strategic civil affairs. There's talk that the United States Army Civil Affairs and Psychological Operations Command may soon reorganize and actually make psychological operations. and the theater information operation groups, or TIOG's, subordinate to the KCOMs. Is there any truth to this? Certainly that will put a KCOM at a division size. If they do that, are they going to make our KCOM commanders two stars? Yeah,
00:05:32 TONY VACHA
Yeah, probably not. Is this going to happen? And if so, what are the implications? I've been told it's going to happen. Unfortunately, a lot of that came after my tenure as DCO. It does make sense in some ways, because... as information -related capabilities, I think there's a lot we could learn from PSYOP. And I also think there's a lot they could learn from us. I know for some of the POGs, they have multiple theaters that they're supporting. So that can be very challenging, right? When you have three different theaters that you're trying to array your forces and align them to. I see goodness in all of it because ultimately, Like I said, the KCOM is built as a strategic headquarters with a general officer, right, who can engage in venues that a colonel can't. You know, when a KCOM commander comes to theater, they're meeting with maneuvered division commanders, core DCGs, you know, these types of people, ASCC senior leaders, GCC senior leaders. So that can provide some advocacy for PSYOP. So I don't see it all as just a bad thing. I see it as an evolution. So I served at UC KPOC force development under Major General Daryl Guthrie. And he used to have a quote. He'd say, it's a shame the first time I really learned about PSYOP was when I became the two -star commander of UC KPOC. And I think there's some truth to that, that we need to learn from each other because we share a common headquarters.
00:07:03 BRIAN HANCOCK
I appreciate that. It seems to me that actually, you know, I've spent most of my career in UC KPOC. We're a little bit late to the party. Now, we've been experimenting over the last few years, I believe even in the New York area Bayou, with putting some CA and some PSYOP together. What we're seeing at the larger level for joint combined operations, we're seeing formations like multi -domain task forces, which have been in development for 10 years now. We're seeing theater information advantage elements or theater information advantage detachments. We're seeing in our G39 that you're part of in USRAF. There's a lot more capabilities than just CA and PSYOP because we're moving towards this concept of convergence to meet the challenges of modern warfare, which means we have to synchronize every IRC and fire rapidly and continuously against every target to shape for a kinetic kill or to hopefully avoid a conflict. So at this point, we're looking at putting... eight plus IRCs together. So I think KPOC has some opportunity to advance that, but we're going to need to do, I think, a lot more than just putting CA and PSYOP together with a tie. Yeah, I concur. To stay relevant.
00:08:21 TONY VACHA
No, I completely concur. And I had the unique opportunity to be part of the information warfare design team that ARCyber did a few years ago, which kind of led to the evolution of what the tie is evolving to right now. And the one thing I'd always remind the other capabilities within the information arena is with current programmed forces, there's only two capabilities that go from ASCC all the way down to maneuver battalion,
00:08:44 TONY VACHA
current programmed forces, there's only two capabilities that go from ASCC all the way down to maneuver battalion, and that's CA and SIOP, right? So when you look at how we get them engaged in a future fight. Not probably, it definitely requires some synchronization and convergence at multiple echelons. Just from the fact that CA is unique in that a branch or organization only has one role by definition for the Army. We are the only capability in DOD that is solely focused on foreign civilian populations. PSYOP is very unique. Now they may. look at foreign civilian populations, but they also look at threat actors. They're looking at a broader piece than necessarily we are. But that civil component, that civilian portion of the operational environment, I've always said when we were developing functional specialist capabilities in 2012 to 2015, which includes 38 Gulf, but also includes AMED and JAG, other capabilities. Why wouldn't other branches want to use functional specialists? Yes. Right? I think it can be as helpful to PSYOP and I .O. as it is to CA. Absolutely.
00:10:06 BRIAN HANCOCK
I remember back at Rim of the Pacific a few years ago, building a fusion team with the evolving 38 golf program that I think we'll talk about here shortly. And they were the analytical brains with my SIM cell. Now we call it civil knowledge integration course, CKI. And together we produced products that the Joint Combined Task Force had never seen before. So there is, I think, incredible opportunity as a customer demand driven organization for the larger army and the larger joint force for us to provide that kind of information and analysis and insight that allow us to significantly reduce costs in terms of lives and equipment. And of course. Our struggle as a force is not winning a tactical battle. It's achieving our strategic objectives. So we walk away with having spent blood and treasure towards a larger purpose that really mattered. And that is very challenging right now. And the more destruction, the more death, the more crisis that happens in blunt contact. the more difficult that stability and achieving those long -term strategic objectives become. So a lot of opportunity in this space. I concur that the 38 Gulfs are going to be a big player in that. Let's talk about that. You were actually one of the founders of the 38 Gulf Specialist Program. Can you tell the audience a little bit about the history of this military occupational specialty and how it came to fruition?
00:11:37 TONY VACHA
Yeah, yeah, sure. So I was a doctor and developer at SWCC. Then Colonel, a later Brigadier General, now retired, Mike Wormack, was the commandant. And he assigned me as the OPR to do the initial research, did a lot of reading, read every manual, civil affairs manual, going back to FM 27 .5 in 1942. So yeah, I've been asked by a number of people over the years, people are doing research on something, they'll call me and they're like, what triggered the development of it? And it was actually a joint capabilities -based assessment and got validated by the Joint Requirements Oversight Council, which produced JROCM 162 .11, if anybody wants to look it up. So it assigned particular .mil PFP responsibilities to SOCOM and SWCC to redo or to professionalize functional specialists, basically. So unfortunately, the Army Reserve doesn't promote on skill identifiers. So, you know, at least when I initially came into civil affairs, you know, circa late 2003, people would get promoted as lieutenant colonel into colonel into functional specialist slots. Well, they may or may not have any background for whatever they're promoted into. So it hurt us. Because we were in busy years, you know, at that time. And so that's why the Jay Rockham said to professionalize the functional specialist program. 38 Gulf, a commissioned officer, was the way that was chosen. Ultimately, the commander of USASOC at the time was Lieutenant General Cleveland. And he also wanted to develop the Institute for Military Support to Governance. So these were two distinct yet related initiatives. and functional specialists writ large were designed to be operational and out and about. The IMSG was designed with some key functions that are currently missing, as a matter of fact. One, they were to inform the development of doctrine and training because you just can't expect a GS -12 doctrine developer to understand. the range of the specialties. We have 21 now or something like that.
00:14:00 BRIAN HANCOCK
We have 21 now or something like that.
00:14:02 TONY VACHA
So, so yeah, you had to, the experts were supposed to help us write what the doctrine should be. The second function that IMSG had, which is missing, they were supposed to be basically the talent management of all the functional specialists. Who do we have where, what are their specialty, look at their career growth, what kind of assignments should they have. And then the third function, which we've had experience with in my 10 years DCO, was to be a place that you could go for requests for information or requests for assistance. Yes. Right. And there'd be a clearinghouse. Because it's