Welcome to the One CA Podcast. Please welcome Valerie Jackson, Colonel, USMC.
Valerie is the 4th Civil Affairs Group Commander, US Marine Corps. She discusses her journey in Civil Affairs and how the Marine Corps differs from the Army approach to Civil Affairs. She closes with some helpful tips for junior Marines.
Hosted and edited by John McElligott.
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Transcript
00:00:30 SPEAKER_01
extremely useful to a MAGTAC or any commander. They're like a utility player on a baseball field. They have multiple specialties and really will view the environment with a different perspective that can influence operations that save marine lives, shorten conflicts, help uphold the honor of the Marine Corps and American service members wherever they go.
00:01:16 SPEAKER_02
joined today by Colonel Valerie Jackson. She came through the Marine Corps as a communications officer, transferred to Marine Corps Reserve after a few years active duty, then went through the Marine Corps History Division in 2006. She then transferred over to civil affairs, joined the civil affairs branch of the Marine Corps, helped to develop the first program of instruction for the U .S. Marine Corps Civil Affairs MOS School, and she's currently the commander of the fourth civil affairs group. Ma 'am, welcome to the 1CA podcast.
00:01:48 SPEAKER_01
Thanks. Glad to be here.
00:01:49 SPEAKER_02
I wanted to start by going back into your history of the Marine Corps and then build up to some questions about what the Marine Corps is for civil affairs, what they're doing within the branch, and how that is the same or different from the Army. And then also, if we can, get into examples of what in the tactical operational strategic level the Marine Corps is currently doing in civil affairs.
00:02:13 SPEAKER_01
Okay, great.
00:02:14 SPEAKER_02
Meb, since you joined the Marine Corps back in 1994, what has been your balance of time on active duty and in the Marine Corps Reserve?
00:02:21 SPEAKER_01
It's roughly 10 years active duty, 14 years reserve, and that reserve includes three years of inactive time.
00:02:31 SPEAKER_02
Was that a mix that you had based on where you went to school at the time, a different job that you had on the civilian side?
00:02:38 SPEAKER_01
No, I had five years active duty. I got married. Pregnant with my first and did my husband's active duty as well. And so I didn't want to do the thing where you leave your kids behind. And so I got off active duty, was in the inactive reserve for three years. And then after 9 -11, got back into the operational reserve and was mobilized for about four and a half years. And then I've been a combination of what we call IMA and SMCR since then. Okay. So just sort of, you know, the periodic drilling and that sort of thing for the last seven years.
00:03:15 SPEAKER_02
On the Army side, IMA is an Individual Mobilization Augmentee. And what was the other acronym you talked about?
00:03:21 SPEAKER_01
The SMCR, Select Marine Corps Reserve, and those are our operational units. Our IMA support active duty units. The SMCR units make up the operational arms of the reserve. So, you know, our force headquarters group, our 4th Marine Division, 4th Marine Air Wing. and 4th Marine Logistics Groups all have operational deployable units, whereas an IMA detachment might be in support of a Marine Expositionary Force or a schoolhouse or things like that. They're in direct support of the active forces.
00:03:54 SPEAKER_02
You studied history. I saw that you went to Boston University and went through the Naval ROTC program. How do you think that studying history and then your first job, the Marine Corps as a communications officer, had prepared you for civil affairs?
00:04:09 SPEAKER_01
Well, it's made me that degree and my two master's degrees, which are also liberal arts degrees, really prepared me to look at the world through many different lenses to appreciate a country's culture, history, arts, strategy, human connections, all these things from peace through war. I initially, I loved history and the Marine Corps didn't care what my degree was in. That's why I picked it. But, of course, I loved the study of warfare and specifically wars that America had fought. And I think that point of reference is extraordinarily helpful when we go overseas to know the history of U .S. involvement in that area or European involvement and to connect those dots for people that may think this is the first time that we're here or someone like us is here. and to ensure people really are getting a full picture of our involvement in a certain area.
00:05:10 SPEAKER_02
Right. You talked about two master's degrees. You had a Master of Arts in Liberal Studies, Conflict Management and Resolution from UNC Wilmington, and a Master's in Strategic Studies from the Army War College as a distinguished graduate. What was the order? Was one Strategic Studies before the UNC school?
00:05:23 SPEAKER_01
a distinguished graduate.
00:05:29 SPEAKER_01
No. I mean, I say unfortunately. I was in a master's program for four straight years. I finished my UNC degree in May, graduated, and started that June at the Army War College doing the distance education program. So it was over two years. Wow. Yeah. So I didn't pick up a book for about six months after I finished the War College. I just read comic books and magazines. Wow.
00:05:57 SPEAKER_02
Ma 'am, I'd love for you to describe for the audience the force structure of civil affairs and Marine Corps. You're commander of the fourth group. How many groups are there? The number of Marines, and what is the current mix of active duty and reserve forces for the Marine Corps and civil affairs?
00:06:16 SPEAKER_01
Okay. So currently, the preponderance of our forces are and always have been, except for a brief period of time, in the reserves. We have four civil affairs groups. We have first CAG out in Southern California. Second CAG is in Anacostia, D .C. area. Third CAG is in Great Lakes. And then a fourth CAG is in Hialeah, which is just outside Miami. Each CAG, they don't mirror each other exactly, but they're pretty close. It has about 198 Marines and sailors. 179 of those are reserve Marines and sailors. And then we have about a 19 Marine active duty staff that sits at each CAG that runs everything for us during the month when we're not there, sets up all our training, runs all our admin, holds down the fort while we're not there. And really, they carry a lot of water because they have a lot of additional duties as well while they're there doing funerals. Marine Toys for Tots and that kind of stuff, really the interface with the community where our home training center is. So those are the CAGs. We are in the process of transitioning one of the CAGs to a train -advised assist unit, and that will happen during the coming year. So our overall civil affairs numbers in the reserves will shrink in the coming year. And that's sort of being played out right now, the details being hammered out, but that should happen here within 2018. And then the active component simultaneously is also in the process of reducing their structure. Each Marine Expeditionary Force, we have three, had a 50 Marine detachment as part of their structure. That detachment is going away. There are a few CMO planners that will remain at the Marine Exhibitionary Unit and the regimental level. So just a handful will remain. And so what that means for us in Reserve CAGs is we're reducing our forces, active component reducing their forces, demand signal is going up. So we're going to be busier than we ever have been. And I'm really seeing that play out in 4th CAG because... Our area of operations is Southcom, and we're picking up the responsibility of UCOM and AFRICOM, where the second civil affairs group, that's the group that's transitioning, that's where they're focused right now. So we're starting to pick up some of their operations and exercises and things like that. So we're not forward, and that's a good thing.
00:09:00 SPEAKER_02
Right. Do you think the waxing and waning of the force,
00:09:04 SPEAKER_02
is it? Is it a function of how the demand signal may have been reduced in the past, and then it takes two or three years to get everything signed off and implemented, and now if the demand is higher again, it'll take another few years to ramp back up if you need to?
00:09:21 SPEAKER_01
I think that's part of it. Historically, we only had, for the longest time, up until a few years ago, we just had first and second CAGs. And then no active duty forces. And we went through with OIF and OEF really realized the need for this very critical MOS doing COIN and stability ops. And so ramped up the reserve force and added active structure, made it a primary MOS for enlisted Marines. It's a secondary MOS for officers. And so we, as officers, will need to float back and forth between that and our primary MOS. We can talk about that later if it's better, a different point. But, yeah, I think we've done this historically where we think, okay, well, we just fought that war. Now we're on to something bigger and better. So we're going to reduce those forces that we don't think we need anymore. But the fact of the matter is, I mean, there's a need for civil affairs, Marines, and soldiers all the time in all phases of conflict. And it's just, you know, where is someone going to assume risk? You know, would they rather have more, you know, cyber operators than civil affairs Marines or, you know, train, advise, assist folks in civil affairs? And it's just, you know, it's just a product of, OK,
00:10:45 SPEAKER_00
know,
00:10:47 SPEAKER_01
I'm going to reduce these forces. You know, Congress tells us we can only have X amount of Marines. And so what do I want my force to look like?
00:10:54 SPEAKER_00
Right. And so we're, you know,
00:10:55 SPEAKER_01
And so we're, you know, we're taking some cuts right now. And that's okay because we still have the Marines that we can, you know, reform in a heartbeat pretty much that have been trained and have a lot of operational experience. And so if we need them again, you know, they're there.
00:11:10 SPEAKER_02
Right. Ma 'am, you mentioned the Civil Affairs MOS is secondary for officers for enlisted. Is it secondary or primary?
00:11:16 SPEAKER_01
Is it secondary or primary? It is primary now. I mean, there still are quite a few enlisted Marines that have multiple MOSs. That maybe came to the MOS late, but Houston Marines can get civil affairs as a primary MOS.
00:11:30 SPEAKER_01
Marines can get civil affairs as a primary MOS.
00:11:35 SPEAKER_02
Does that mean that you have promoted within the Marine Corps as a communications officer and not civil affairs?
00:11:42 SPEAKER_01
Right. Actually, in the Marine Corps, the path to success for promotions, past major, is command and street cred in your primary MOS. And so a CAG or time in a CAG is nice to have, but there's no opportunity for 05 level command. And so if you want to command in the reserves, you have to do it in your primary MOS at the lieutenant colonel level. And then there's only four for the time being, getting ready to be three CAGs that are 06 level commands. You know, all of us or most of us have had 05 level command leading up to this in our primary MLSs. So it's not always career enhancing. And I have to tell my officers, hey, you have to give back. As much as you love civil affairs, you have to give back to your primary MOS if you want to continue to advance in the reserves. So some of them don't, and they're very happy where they are. But for the ones that do, you know, that want to be CAD commanders someday, you know, sadly I have to let them go.
00:12:54 SPEAKER_02
Ma 'am, I had read that the Marine Corps and the Army share the same five core tasks for civil affairs. So when it comes to the Marine Corps' approach to CA, how do you see the two services as being the same, and how do you think that they're different?
00:13:08 SPEAKER_01
Okay, so for the Marine Corps, we always deploy and support a MAGTAP. So Marines are always, whatever type civil affairs section you have, whether it's a two -person team or a full team or a detachment or an entire CAG, we will always be in direct support of a ground commander. Sometimes a ground commander might be a logistics element, but more often than not, it's an infantry commander or a JTF or something like that, but a MAGTAF. The Army operates independently, so you can have your teams and your... platoons and companies out there conducting civil affairs operations independent, if you will, of a ground commander. And the Marine Corps does not operate that way. We have our same core task, but the difference is, and I don't believe the Army does this, is that we say facilitate in front of each task. As, you know, CA Marines aren't necessarily always the duty expert in that core task. For example, When we're in support of Department of State in an HADR scenario, we're not always executing for humanitarian assistance, but we're facilitating the execution of it. We're not always executing populist and resources control, but we're facilitating it for the infantry that we're supporting. Does that make sense?
00:14:33 SPEAKER_02
It does. So facilitating through other assets in the area, other NGOs or the host government or whoever they are.
00:14:39 SPEAKER_01
Yeah, sometimes it is us, but because it's not a primary MOS for us, we're CA generalists. And I know the Army has CA generalists as well, but you have more specialists than we do. And the only specialists that we have in the Marine Corps are our lawyers and our Navy doctors. So we'll say that they are... Definitely executing when they're, you know, advising on rule of law matters or carrying out, you know, public health missions or that kind of thing. But since it's secondary MOS and we're generalists, we're not always the one executing. Many times we are or we're planning for it, but it's not it's not always us. So it's just, you know, to some it might seem like semantics. But, you know, more often than not, if, you know, you have an infantry. platoon that's executing a checkpoint to control population flow, you know, over a border. Those aren't civil affairs Marines that are controlling that checkpoint. They might be advising.
00:15:15 SPEAKER_00
Many times
00:15:40 SPEAKER_01
There's