Welcome to One CA Podcast. Today we have a bonus episode with Ryan McCannell of USAID. We discuss the future of Civil Affairs in Sub-Saharan Africa.
Transcript:
00:00:01 SPEAKER_00
Thanks for sticking around for a bonus episode. The conversation with Ryan McCannell continues.
00:00:10 SPEAKER_00
In our original interview with Ryan McCannell of USAID, we talked about his civil affairs issue paper entitled The Evolution of Civil Affairs in Interagency Partnerships in Sub -Saharan Africa. Here's a little bit more about our conversation in the next phase of civil affairs in Sub -Saharan Africa.
00:00:35 SPEAKER_01
Well, your paper is titled The Evolution of Civil Affairs and Interagency Partners in Sub -Saharan Africa. From our discussion, it's clear, and after reading your paper, the evolution has been generally positive over the last 10, 11, 12 years. Where do you think it's headed over the next 10 years?
00:00:51 SPEAKER_02
I think that depends on some pretty higher, I'm not sure I have a real clear answer. Above our pay grades?
00:00:57 SPEAKER_01
answer. Above our pay grades?
00:01:02 SPEAKER_02
We have a new Africa strategy that was just rolled out two weeks ago by the National Security Advisor. I think that it speaks to the need for us to be thinking cross -training across this security and development divide. On the whole, though, I'm a little concerned about what the focus on great power competition means for our strategy toward Africa. It's salient to Africa. I think it matters, given that the presence of some of our competitors, particularly China, is growing on the continent. But there's a real risk, and you'll hear this from most anybody who's worked on the Africa region. There's a real risk in basically seeing Africa as a giant chessboard across which America and China are playing a game. And that removes agency from the Africans themselves. And kind of short changes, that's not a real convincing good message from the United States, that basically we want to save you from China or that we're concerned about China on your behalf. It's more about how can we work with Africans to help them understand kind of what their various choices and tradeoffs may be. And are there potentially places where we may actually have some... points of convergence with China and with other major powers in the Africa region, because conflict generally in Africa doesn't really serve anybody's interest. This is not the Cold War that we're talking about. It's largely an economic competition that's taking place on the continent right now. So those are some concerns that I have going forward with respect to that. I think that's way above kind of like, what does it mean for civil affairs?
00:02:49 SPEAKER_01
The piece that I see from civil affairs is the bread and butter that we need to continue to learn foreign languages, languages that pertain to the African continent. We need to pick up the paper or look online for news because very often people completely miss looking up anything that comes out of the African continent regarding current events. It's normally not going to be hitting the top of your feet on Google News or the nightly news if people listen and watch that. So you really do have to reach out to some of the good sources to find out what's happening. What tips would you have for civil affairs forces to learn more about African nations or to, we have DOD resources to learn languages, but to become current on what's happening in the continent?
00:03:51 SPEAKER_02
The hardest challenge for any of us, but particularly for civil affairs, is not the physical or combat -oriented stuff that's less likely in the Africa context, actually. And it's more of an intellectual challenge, which is developing an understanding and a narrative about how small -scale projects and activities like civil reconnaissance and civil information management can scale up to something. more valuable and enduring. And that really requires the sustainment of these networks and relationships that we were talking about. And I think actually that has been the secret to the success or the evolution of civil affairs is because the first time you hit the ground in the African continent, it doesn't matter how well studied you are, you're perceived as a novice. But it actually, the second and third time and fourth time, and the more you have actually, you know, a persistent presence that you can kind of get absorbed into. the more you're taken as somebody who can be part of a larger effort. And now I think that there is actually some groundwork laid for that kind of success. The other thing, though, for Africa is always being comfortable with paradox. Most of the problems in Africa, whether they're security or governance or development, have complex root causes that go back decades, if not centuries. And yet... African societies are evolving more quickly now than they ever have, right? So those of us who have known about Africa for a long time and, you know, could kind of sort of think we know the way that things work in Africa are being challenged on a daily basis. But the fact that it's not the same continent that it was 25 years ago, and in fact, most Africans have been born since then. And so the reality for them is different from the one of the generation that... Somebody like you who went out on Peace Corps or me who's been, you know, kicking around on the continent for 20 or more years. You know, things are changing on the ground. I think nothing encapsulates that better than the whole violent extremism threat, which a lot of us who worked in the Africa region, we kind of dismissed it because it was tied to historical, you know, context. And there were, you know, this has happened before and it didn't matter, you know, at that time. Or it was,
00:06:07 SPEAKER_02
you know, related to local, you know, issues or whatever. We just, we never, we didn't really see it coming. Like Molly, when Molly fell, that was sort of a wake -up call where we sort of realized, okay, like everything we thought was true, maybe we do have something to learn from our colleagues who look at this content from the perspective of threat, not just opportunity.
00:06:36 SPEAKER_00
Thank you for spending some time with us. Please subscribe and come back for another installment of One CA. Until then, be safe and secure the victory.