The Robot Brains Podcast

Last week, we were honored to have Professor Geoff Hinton join the show for a wide-ranging discussion inspired by insights gleaned from Hinton’s journey in academia, as well as past 10 years with Google Brain. The episode covers how existing neural networks and backpropagation models operate differently than how the brain actually works; the AlexNet/ImageNet breakthrough moment; the purpose of sleep; and why it’s better to grow our computers than manufacture them.

As you might recall, we also gave our audience an opportunity to contribute questions for Geoff via Twitter. We received so many amazing questions from our audience that we had to break down our time with Geoff into two parts! In this episode, we’ll discuss some of these questions with Geoff.

Tune in to get Geoff’s answers to the following questions AND MORE:

Are you concerned with AI becoming too successful?

What is the connection between mania and genius?

What childhood experiences shaped him the most?

What is next in AI?

What should PhD students focus on?

How conscious do you think today's neural nets are?

How important is embodiment for intelligence?

How does the brain work?

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Over the past ten years, AI has experienced breakthrough after breakthrough in everything from computer vision to speech recognition, protein folding prediction, and so much more.

Many of these advancements hinge on the deep learning work conducted by our guest, Geoff Hinton, who has fundamentally changed the focus and direction of the field. A recipient of the Turing Award, the equivalent of the Nobel prize for computer science, he has over half a million citations of his work.

Hinton has spent about half a century on deep learning, most of the time researching in relative obscurity. But that all changed in 2012 when Hinton and his students showed deep learning is better at image recognition than any other approaches to computer vision, and by a very large margin. That result, that moment, known as the ImageNet moment, changed the whole AI field. Pretty much everyone dropped what they had been doing and switched to deep learning.

Geoff joins Pieter in our two-part season finale for a wide-ranging discussion inspired by insights gleaned from Hinton’s journey from academia to Google Brain. The episode covers how existing neural networks and backpropagation models operate differently than how the brain actually works; the purpose of sleep; and why it’s better to grow our computers than manufacture them.

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Originally created to be an open domain conversational AI, your own ‘artificial BFF' that you could chat with when your real friends weren’t available — fast forward six years, and Hugging Face is the leading Natural Language Processing (NLP) start-up. The company is currently valued at $2B with over 10,000 companies using the open-source AI platform - including Bing, Apple, and Monzo.

Our guest, Clement Delangue, CEO of Hugging Face, believes in the sustainable long-term benefits of open-science and open-source collaboration and has built a community that fosters this goal. And while Hugging Face was initially mainly aimed at NLP, recently it is expanding to more machine learning domains, including computer vision and reinforcement learning.

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As we all re-entered society over the last year, after months of WFH sweatpants and t-shirts, a personal stylist would have been helpful.

Well, now there’s AI for that - THE YES. By taking a quick style quiz, you’ll have daily product and brand recommendations and a personalized feed displaying exactly what you’re looking for — in your size, budget and preferences. The more you say “yes”, the more personalized your feed gets. Right now, the company only offers women clothes but may expand in the future.

The CTO of THE YES, Amit Aggarwal, joins the show to share how the company uses ML to create millions of unique stores daily for each one of their users.

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Music is universal. It transcends language. Melodies have the power to trigger strong emotions. In fact, our brains release dopamine - the “feel good” hormone - when we listen to music.

Today’s guest, Spotify’s Chief R&D Officer Gustav Söderström, has been helping to bring the magic of music, personalized playlists, and more recently, podcasts to people around the world. He’s also led the platform to personalize individual content experiences with the help of artificial intelligence.

Pieter and Gustav discuss the platform’s early approach to AI & ML, how he wants to help content creators reach more listeners and the technological details of Spotify’s ability to automatically generate millions of new playlists every day.

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When you are skiing down a mountain, riding your bike along a forest trail, or surfing 6-footers, it is hard enough just to concentrate on what you are doing, let alone try to capture a video of the moment.

But what if you could hire a professional videographer to follow you and capture every move?

Well, now you can in the form of AI-powered drones from Skydio. While personal use is just one application, the company has found success across a multitude of use cases. In this episode, we’re joined by Adam Bry, co-founder and CEO of the unicorn startup Skydio, which produces drones that are fully autonomous with AI software as their pilot.

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Sports and artificial intelligence aren’t two areas that often intersect. That has begun to change as IoT and wearables have begun to be adopted by more professional sports teams. The data that’s produced can be used to identify areas of performance improvement, potential future injuries and insights about team structure on the field.

Today’s guest, Param Hegde, former CTO of Catapult Sports joined the show to share how the company is using data-driven intelligence to help athletes reach the top of their game. Please note: this interview was taped in late 2021. Since then, Param Hegde has moved on from Catapult to another endeavor.

Originally founded in Australia, Catapult Sports has been a leader in the sports analytics sector for some time. This year, the winner of the 2022 Super Bowl, the Los Angeles Rams, even wore Catapult Sports tech demonstrating just how far the company has come. Param and Pieter discuss the technicalities of building such software and other areas of sports that AI may be applied.

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Every business wants to be a data-driven business these days; basing decisions on tangible facts derived from historical precedents and clear-cut numbers. But that’s a lot easier said than done.

This episode’s guest, Amit Prakash, is on a mission to change that. Based on his experience working on Microsoft’s Bing and then at Google working on Google Brain, he co-founded Thoughtspot to make querying data as easy as having a simple conversation. Thoughtspot provides artificial intelligence (AI) and search-driven analytics.

The Sunnyvale, California-based company reached unicorn status in 2019, its latest valuation is $4.2B, and counts Nike, Walmart, and Apple among its clients.

Amit shares the story behind building the massive search system, his views on relational search, and how to teach a machine what a user thinks is most interesting.

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| Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Alice Patel & Henry Tobias Jones | Production: Fresh Air Production

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On Episode 15 of Season 2, we’re joined by Eric Horvitz, Microsoft’s first ever Chief Scientific Officer. His research spans theoretical and practical challenges with developing systems that perceive, learn, and reason. He’s the company’s top inventor since joining in 1993 with over 300 patents filed.  

He has been elected Fellow of the Association for the Advancement of Artificial Intelligence (AAAI), Fellow of the National Academy of Engineering (NAE), Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS). 

He was a member of the National Security Commission on AI and he also co-founded important groups like the Partnership on AI, a non-profit organization bringing together Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google, DeepMind, IBM, and Microsoft to document the quality and impact of AI systems on things like criminal justice, the economy, and media integrity. 

In his interview, he discusses everything from Microsoft’s relationship with AI to his own personal views on security implications of a future in which AI is ubiquitous. 

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The five senses...touch, sight, smell, taste, and hearing. They are critical to how we perceive the world around us. Without them, we are lost. And as we grow older, they tend to weaken particularly when it comes to sight and hearing. Today’s guest, Andrew Song, is the co-founder and CEO of Whisper AI, and he is on a mission to help give people great hearing regardless of their age.

After graduating from the University of Waterloo with degrees in mathematics and computer science, Andrew went to work at Facebook. While there, he saw firsthand the positive benefits gained from connecting with family and friends but wanted to make more of a direct impact.

After watching his grandfather lose his hearing and consequently, his connection to others and ability to engage socially, he wanted to create a better hearing aid that was smart enough to deduce what was most important for the user to hear. Listen to his whole story as Pieter explores the inspiration and technology of Whisper AI.

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For Episode 13, we're joined by industry pioneer, Dean Ayanna Howard. She began working at NASA's JPL at 18-years old to help build the Mars Rover and never slowed down from there. She is a successful roboticist, entrepreneur, educator, and is the author of the recent book: Sex, Race, and Robots: How to be Human in the Age of AI.

Dr. Ayanna Howard is the current dean of The Ohio State University College of Engineering. Before joining Ohio State, she was Professor at Georgia Tech, where she was the founder and director of the Human-Automation Systems Lab (HumAnS). She led a range of projects including applying her knowledge of the Rover's SmartNav abilities to create robots that could explore remote areas of Antartica and Alaska to collect data for studying climate change. In addition to her leadership at Ohio State, she also started Zyrobotics, a non-profit dedicated to helping children that require extra development support.

The conversation spans Ayanna's childhood, her inspirations like the Bionic Woman, and her views on building a more equitable AI ecosystem for all individuals.

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If any company is at the top of most people’s minds when it comes to AI, it’s DeepMind. They have been at the forefront of many major breakthroughs including AlphaGo, the first AI to beat a human Go world champion and AlphaFold, which revolutionized protein structure prediction.

Our guest on this week’s episode, Shakir Mohamed, joined DeepMind in the early days and has been an instrumental part of their success ever since. Shakir is a Senior Staff Scientist at DeepMind, an Associate Fellow at the Leverhulme Centre for the Future of Intelligence, and a Honorary Professor of University College London. Shakir is also a founder and trustee of the Deep Learning Indaba, a grassroots organization aiming to build pan-African capacity and leadership in AI.

Pieter and Shakir discuss his career journey of coming to DeepMind, his professional accomplishments like using ML to solve the problem of nowcasting (short-term weather predictions), and his personal work of growing AI's global inclusion with orgs like Deep Learning Indaba.

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| Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Alice Patel & Henry Tobias Jones | Production: Fresh Air Production

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It doesn’t matter what country you live in, or what industry you build a career in, STEM skills are increasingly important - particularly for children and students who are yet to join the world of work. Introducing robotics to children at a young age in the same way that we enroll them in soccer or piano lessons should be a real consideration. However, the participation costs are often so prohibitive that it's out of the question for most schools and parents.

On Episode 11 of Season 2, we're joined by entrepreneur and philanthropist, Jared Schrieber. He envisions a world where there are as many elementary and high school robotics teams as there are basketball or football teams. He founded Revolution Robotics; a non-profit dedicated to making robotics hardware and software kits accessible to all communities, to make his vision into a reality.

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| Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Alice Patel & Henry Tobias Jones | Production: Fresh Air Production

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On Episode 10 of Season 2, Pieter is joined by the CEO of SafelyYou, George Netscher. Pieter and George first met at UC Berkeley's AI lab when George was pursuing a PhD with a clear picture in his mind of how he would use it. And seven years later, George has stayed true to his mission of building AI to help people with dementia live better.

SafelyYou’s AI is raising the profile of technology solutions in the fight against dementia. While still a young company, SafelyYou has successfully reduced falls by 40% and has successfully reduced ER visits resulting from falls by 80%. George shares the company's technological successes and his vision for the future of AI, robots, and healthcare.

SUBSCRIBE TO THE ROBOT BRAINS PODCAST TODAY | Visit therobotbrains.ai and follow us on YouTube at TheRobotBrainsPodcast, Twitter @therobotbrains, and Instagram @therobotbrains.

| Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Alice Patel & Henry Tobias Jones | Production: Fresh Air Production

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For Episode 9, we welcome an AI researcher and entrepreneur who has been on a remarkable journey, Flora Tasse. She grew up in Cameroon, where she completed her Bachelors in Mathematics at the University of Buea. She received a second Bachelors and a Masters in Computer Science at Rhodes and Cape Town in South Africa. She then went on to the UK, and earned her PhD in 3D computer vision at Cambridge, as well as interning at Microsoft and Google.

Rather than joining a tech giant, Flora decided instead to found her own company Selerio, pioneering the commercialization of Artificial Intelligence and Augmented Reality. Selerio got acquired by Streem. where she’s now leading the AI Research team. Streem offers AI and AR-powered communications, bringing AI to the frontlines of customer service.

Pieter and Flora also discuss her personal experience with the lack of diversity in AI and her work with organizations like Black in AI to improve inclusivity.

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| Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Alice Patel & Henry Tobias Jones | Production: Fresh Air Production

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For Episode 8, Pieter Abbeel interviews Alex Kendall, the co-founder and CEO of Wayve, the London-based company pioneering AI technology to enable autonomous vehicles to drive in complex, never-seen-before environments. Alex is a world expert in deep learning and computer vision. Before founding Wayve, Alex was a research fellow at Cambridge University where he earned his Ph.D. in Computer Vision and Robotics.

Wayve is building global momentum for the use of deep learning to solve self-driving. Alex and his team are building AV2.0—a next generation autonomous driving system that can quickly and safely adapt to new driving domains anywhere in the world.

The interview spans a range of topics including Wayve's technological approach, its metrics for success, and Wayve's latest milestones.

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| Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Alice Patel & Henry Tobias Jones | Production: Fresh Air Production

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One thing every AI researcher knows is that most foundational AI research is actually happening in open-source. Indeed, most AI researchers publish their research findings openly on arxiv, a freely accessible, open repository originally mostly used by physics researchers. And the code underlying many AI breakthroughs is often published on github, where it’s readily accessible to anyone.

Historically, these papers and codebases have originated from the leading universities and tech companies. But the open culture in the AI community means that aspiring researchers can study the latest AI breakthroughs and codebases, and in principle, start making their own contributions. It hasn't really been done before in a meaningful until Ross Wightman came along.

As an independent researcher, Ross Wightman has grown into one of the most prominent contributors to AI research and codebases. In a previous life, an engineer at a Canadian unicorn start-up, his current full-time occupation is building new AI models that are freely available for use by anyone and everyone. And he's essentially self-taught.

He chats with Pieter about his inspirations, his belief in open-source citing Kaggle, Hugging Face, Eleuther.AI, and his latest papers like ResNet Strike Back.

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| Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Alice Patel & Henry Tobias Jones | Production: Fresh Air Production

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Previous guests on our podcasts - from Tesla, Aurora, Waymo - are building the brains of the cars and trucks of our future. This episode's guest, Professor Cathy Wu, is building the roadways of our future. She is building machine-learning to predict the ideal infrastructure for the world's future mobility, the cost of building this infrastructure, and most importantly, what's the solution that eliminates traffic jams and gridlock forever.

Currently at MIT's Institute for Data, Systems, and Society (IDSS), Professor Cathy Wu (and previous student of Pieter Abbeel's) gives listeners an overview of the type of potential scenarios being modeled with machine-learning such as scenarios in which the road is filled with mixed-autonomy vehicles. What emergent behaviors might happen? Are there infrastructure solutions or software solutions that can help ensure smooth travel and safe roadways as our mode for transportation and delivery evolve? What are the policy considerations?

Throughout the talk, Wu cites building reinforcement learning for her work and why it's the right fit her research, "Reinforcement learning is essentially this paradigm at the intersection of machine learning and also control, and it is essentially about how agents learn from experience and in particular through trial and error." Her past and current research can be found here and you can watch her recent TedXMIT talk here.

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| Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Alice Patel & Henry Tobias Jones | Production: Fresh Air Production

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Analyzing a person’s blood (and the cells within it) is often used to diagnose many health conditions and illnesses, from infections to leukemia and bone marrow disorders. Generally it's a long and expensive process. You have to go to the doctor, have a sample taken, wait for a couple of days for a trained professional to analyze the blood, and finally get your diagnosis.

Athelas is using machine learning to dramatically improve the speed and efficiency of testing blood cells. From a simple finger prick’s worth of blood, Athelas devices can monitor and help healthcare professionals to remotely care for patients. To date over 40,000 people have used Athelas devices to monitor a range of conditions including hypertension and diabetes. With a recent valuation of $1.5B, the company is poised for major impact.

| SUBSCRIBE TO THE ROBOT BRAINS PODCAST TODAY | Visit therobotbrains.ai and follow us on YouTube at TheRobotBrainsPodcast, Twitter @therobotbrains, and Instagram @therobotbrains.

| Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Alice Patel & Henry Tobias Jones | Audio Production: Kieron Matthew Banerji | Title Music: Alejandro Del Pozo

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*Warning* Explicit language used in the episode.

Benedict Evans, long-time technology analyst and occasional VC at firms such as Andreessen Horowitz, is well-known for his analysis of mobile, media and technology trends. He writes a popular weekly newsletter on the most important happenings in tech and he is also famous for his annual presentations that analyze macro and strategic trends in the tech industry.

He’s a voice of reason trying to sort out the technology issues of the day. In this episode of The Robot Brains, he sits down with Pieter to discuss his opinion on the label of "AI", areas of business that ML is adding real value, and his predictions for the future.

| SUBSCRIBE TO THE ROBOT BRAINS PODCAST TODAY | Visit therobotbrains.ai and follow us on YouTube TheRobotBrainsPodcast, Twitter @therobotbrains, and Instagram @therobotbrains.

| Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Alice Patel & Henry Tobias Jones | Audio Production: Kieron Matthew Banerji | Title Music: Alejandro Del Pozo

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While the world’s temperature rises, there are scores of scientists working around the globe to study causes and solutions. One scientist in particular, David Rolnick, has stood out as a pioneer of machine-learning in the fight against climate change.

David successfully built a broader movement including others like Andrew Ng, Yoshua Bengio, Demis Hassabis, and Jennifer Chayes to champion the amazing possibilities that exist at the intersection of AI and the climate. He organized the first-ever ever AI event at the United Nations Climate Change Conference. He was named a top innovator by the MIT Technology Review -- all before the age of 30.

He sits down with Pieter to discuss his landmark paper on the applications of ML to climate change looking at use cases like weather simulations, ecological monitoring, and predicting natural resource depletion.

| SUBSCRIBE TO THE ROBOT BRAINS PODCAST TODAY | Visit therobotbrains.ai and follow us on YouTube TheRobotBrainsPodcast, Twitter @therobotbrains, and Instagram @therobotbrains.

| Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Alice Patel & Henry Tobias Jones | Audio Production: Kieron Matthew Banerji | Title Music: Alejandro Del Pozo

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In the second episode of Season Two of The Robot Brains, Pieter Abbeel interviews the Chief Technology Officer of Etsy, Mike Fisher. Etsy is a global online marketplace, where people come together to make, sell, buy, and collect unique items. It was founded in 2005 as an accessible listing site for DIY crafters and artists to sell their wares before blossoming into a widely-respected and mainstream online shopping site.

It still maintains its whimsical brand balanced by its listing on the NASDAQ and in 2021, it generated an impressive $1.7B in revenue. The CEO recently shared with Forbes that he's determined to keep growing bigger. One of his strategies? Using AI and machine-learning to keep improving the 1:1 selling and buying experience its so well-known for.

Mike sat down with Pieter to share the transformation the site has gone through starting with rebuilding its search engine capabilities all the way to designing more intelligent algorithms to provide better and more accurate recommendations. With the same number of items equivalent to 2500 grocery stores and inventory that changes every day, the site processes a lot of data!

Mike shares how Etsy manages it all and continues to innovate in the e-commerce space.

| SUBSCRIBE TO THE ROBOT BRAINS PODCAST TODAY | Visit therobotbrains.ai and follow us on YouTube TheRobotBrainsPodcast, Twitter @therobotbrains, and Instagram @therobotbrains.

| Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Alice Patel & Henry Tobias Jones | Audio Production: Kieron Matthew Banerji | Title Music: Alejandro Del Pozo

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In Episode One of Season Two, Host Pieter Abbeel is joined by guest (and close collaborator) Sergey Levine, professor at UC Berkeley, EECS. Sergey discusses the early years of his career, how Andrew Ng influenced him to become interested in machine learning, his current projects, and his lab's recent accomplishments.

The conversation concludes with Sergey's view on the dangers of machines not being intelligent enough and his advice for students seeking a career in robotic.

| SUBSCRIBE TO THE ROBOT BRAINS PODCAST TODAY | Visit therobotbrains.ai and follow us on YouTube TheRobotBrainsPodcast, Twitter @therobotbrains, and Instagram @therobotbrains.

| Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Alice Patel & Henry Tobias Jones | Audio Production: Kieron Matthew Banerji | Title Music: Alejandro Del Pozo

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Join host Pieter Abbeel on Season 2 of the The Robot Brains podcast as he explores how far humanity has come in its mission to create conscious computers, mindful machines, and rational robots. Episode 1 of Season Two will air on 1/5/22.

Over the course of the season, you’ll learn about robots and AI that can drive you around a city, diagnose your health symptoms, and even keep your grandma safe from falls. Subscribe right now in Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to get your podcasts to be notified as soon as we publish each episode.

In the meantime, visit our website - https://therobotbrains.ai - to sign up for our newsletter or follow us on Twitter, YouTube and LinkedIn to get alerts and updates from the team.

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In Ep.16 of The Robot Brains Podcast, Pieter Abbeel sits down with AMP Robotics CEO and founder, Matanya Horowitz. Matanya is the founder and CEO of AMP Robotics, an industrial AI robotics company using automation to modernize recycling. An estimated $200bn worth of recyclable materials go un-recycled by municipal waste centres around the world. AMP’s incredible "waste sorting robots" recover this recyclable material from waste at superhuman speeds and with extremely high accuracy. Matanya's AI-powered robots use advanced vision systems to recover valuable resources from junk, in the process, improving the ecological impact of waste on our environment. In his chat with Pieter, Matanya explains how he started AMP Robotics, why he decided to get into the trash business, and what he imagines the future of a "waste free world" will look like? Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Ricardo Reyes & Henry Tobias Jones | Audio Production: Kieron Matthew Banerji | Title Music: Alejandro Del Pozo

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In episode 14 of The Robot Brains Podcast we sit down and chat with Mike Volpi of Index Ventures. Index is one of the largest and best known VC firms in Silicon Valley. Mike joined Index Ventures in 2009, helping to establish the firm's San Francisco office which has become one of the largest parts of their business today. Mike invests primarily in infrastructure, open-source, and artificial intelligence companies and he's currently on the boards of Aurora, Cockroach Labs, Confluent, Elastic, Kong, Sonos, Starburst, Wealthfront, and Covariant. He has been involved in the funding of some of the biggest AI companies on the planet, so he knows more about the business of AI than practically anyone. In his chat with our host, Pieter Abbeel, Mike explains what a VC does, why VCs and investors should be so excited about AI in particular, and gives his advice for startups who want to get their big idea funded. Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Ricardo Reyes & Henry Tobias Jones | Audio Production: Kieron Matthew Banerji | Title Music: Alejandro Del Pozo

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In episode eleven of The Robot Brains Podcast we are joined by Alison Gopnik, professor of psychology at UC Berkeley and author of the "Mind and Matter" science column for the Wall Street Journal. She has written numerous books about developmental psychology and researching the ways children learn. Her TED Talk: "What do babies think?" has been seen over 4.2 million times. During her conversation with our host, Pieter Abbeel, we discussed the similarities and differences between the way robots and human children learn. We also covered some the methods for testing what a child and a robot actually knows, the theory of the mind, and whether a robot can ever truly be curious? Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Ricardo Reyes & Henry Tobias Jones | Audio Production: Kieron Matthew Banerji | Title Music: Alejandro Del Pozo

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Episode ten of The Robot Brains Podcast investigates how hedge funds are using AI to find competitive advantages for their investments. Joining us to explain how AI is starting to be used for pure profit is Mike Schuster Managing Director and Head of AI Core Team at the New York-based Financial Sciences firm: Two Sigma. With decades of experience working in AI (including Google where he pioneered the ML technology that became Google Translation), when Mike first joined Two Sigma he was described as potentially being the “hedge fund’s last human employee”. In his chat with our host Pieter Abbeel, Mike explains that it actually takes a team to bring AI to banking, as well as explaining how working for a hedge fund is like working for a tech company and the future potential of AI robot investors.

Host: Pieter Abbeel | Executive Producers: Ricardo Reyes & Henry Tobias Jones | Audio Production: Kieron Matthew Banerji | Title Music: Alejandro Del Pozo

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Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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In each episode of The Robot Brains podcast (coming soon), renowned artificial intelligence researcher, professor and entrepreneur Pieter Abbeel meets the brilliant minds attempting to build robots with brains. Pieter is joined by leading experts in AI Robotics from all over the world as he explores how far humanity has come in its mission to create conscious computers, mindful machines and rational robots.

Hosted by Pieter Abbeel

Executive Producers Ricardo Reyes & Henry Tobias Jones

Sound editing by Kieron Matthew Banerji

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.