The two computers that made Apple

Today on the flagship podcast of third-party operating systems: 

The Verge's David Pierce chats with Laine Nooney, author of The Apple II Age: How The Computer Became Personal.

Later, lead video producer Will Poor chats with David about The Verge's new documentary Lisa’s Final Act: How Apple invented its future by burying its past.

To end the show: a hotline question.

• How to transfer playlists from Spotify to Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, or Tidal

Email us at [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. We'll be answering a question every Wednesday!

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