VINE and BUBBLE Podcast

In this episode, we sit down with Krister Bengtsson, the founder of Star Wine List, to explore his journey as a media entrepreneur to a leading figure in the wine industry. Since launching in 2017, Star Wine List has grown to cover over 45 countries and 4,000 wine bars and restaurants, helping wine lovers to discover their next great experience. Join us as we discuss the evolution of wine lists, and the role that champagne is playing in their development.

It’s been 150 years since Madame Louise Pommery launched the Maison’s first ‘brut’ champagne. The matriarch, one of the pioneering ‘iron ladies’ famed for propelling the industry forward during difficult times, was a revolutionary. Her idea for a dryer style of champagne, forever changed champagne wines whilst opening-up a whole new opportunity abroad.

Pommery is, today, one of Champagne’s leading brands. It was acquired by the Vranken family in 2002 who have taken a serious approach to preserving the Maison’s legacy. The Maison’s fabled fairy tale like castle on the outskirts of Reims is immediately identifiable, perched atop a labyrinth of Gallo-Roman chalk crayeres which is home to an annual program of art installations. The exhibitions are curated by the Maison’s co-owner, Madame Nathalie Vranken, who sees an emotional correlation between art and champagne.

It was my pleasure to interview Madame Vranken during her recent visit to Australia.

The name Laurent-Perrier conjures up thoughts of freshness and elegance and classically structured champagnes. The Maison is steeped in impressive history that has served not only their own champagnes, but also champagne collectively, with a family at the helm as wonderful ambassadors.

Today the Maisons’ prestige cuvée, Grand Siècle, is represented by fourth-generation, Lucie Pereyre de Nonancourt. In person, Lucie is one of the nicest and most approachable people that you will ever meet. She is not dissimilar to her mother, Alexandra, with light in her eyes and a deep passion for the House.

Today, Lucie plays an important role continuing the family’s wonderful dynasty as an independent and family managed House. It was my pleasure to speak with Lucie recently, during harvest 2024 in Champagne.  

Champagne Ayala may not share the same level of fame as its sister-House, Bollinger, but since it was acquired by Bollinger in 2005, it has been revived, reinvented and put firmly back on the champagne map.

Though founded and still based in Aÿ, an area that has been historically celebrated for its pinot noir, the Maison’s focus is on chardonnay. Ayala possesses a lightness and freshness but also creamy texture that makes their champagnes very easy to drink.

After recent successive and talented cellar masters have been at the helm, the Maison has seen massive leaps forward in quality improvements and modernisations.

For this interview, I was in Champagne for harvest, and spoke with Julian Gout, Ayala’s cellar master since 2022, as well as Laurence Alamanos, Export Director. It’s my first podcast primarily in French, with English translation care of Laurence.

What does it take to not only be the best, but to keep on being the best? Champagne Salon has earned a cult-like status amongst those who appreciate the Maison’s ability to make some of the finest and most exclusive blanc de blancs in all of Champagne. Limited to just 50,000 bottles per year for the entire world, Salon commands some of the highest prices for a single bottle each release and often tops-out the secondary market for champagnes from much older vintages. It leaves many champagne lovers waiting patiently just to get a sip.

Since 1997, Didier Depond has been President but also managing the day-to-day operations of Champagne Salon and Champagne Delamotte, which fall underneath the stewardship of Laurent-Perrier. Under his leadership Salon has seen elevated and phenomenal demand for its champagnes by maintaining quality but also through restrained accessibility.

It was my pleasure to interview Didier during his time recently in Melbourne, Australia.

When you think of Champagne Pol Roger it’s likely to conjure up thoughts of the royal family or Sir Winston Churchill. These are important historical but also contemporary connections to what they humorously consider to be the ‘most British’ of champagne brands. But you’re also likely to consider Pol as producing some of the most classical and elegant champagnes.

Very few other Maisons apply such exacting precision to the management of their production facilities, pressing and vinification processes as Pol Roger.

The recent opening of a state-of-the-art production site is just the latest innovation in a long-documented series of quality improvements that go to the heart of the Maison’s mandate for producing some of the most pure and precise champagnes with huge ageing potential.

It was my pleasure to sit down with Pol Roger’s Managing Director, Laurent d’Harcourt for this interview on the occasion of the Maison’s 175th anniversary.

The name ‘Perrier’ in Champagne conjures up thoughts around history and prestige. In the case of Joseph Perrier, the spirit of the House is evoked by tradition, quality and particularly family.

Since 1825 it has been managed, largely, by a succession of fathers and sons. Six generations on, Joseph Perrier remains an independent and authentic family managed Maison under the stewardship of Chairman and CEO (and family member) Benjamin Fourmon.

With Benjamin at the helm, the Maison has gained an elevated vision around quality and refinement - but also modernisation - with gusto and energy. Recently, the House revealed itself in a new light with a re-brand to highlight their aspirations for luminosity and positivity.

It was my pleasure to sit down with Benjamin Fourmon to discuss the Maison’s evolution during this interview.

Dominique Demarville is one of Champagne’s legendary winemakers, with an impressive career spanning more than two decades as a vineyard director, cellar master and general manager at some of Champagne’s leading Maisons.  

In 2003 he became Director of vines and wines for both G.H.Mumm and Perrier-Jouët before moving onto Veuve Clicquot where he was Cellar Master and Deputy Director.

They were golden opportunities to delve deep into the complex world of champagne winemaking at the highest level which in turn allowed him to come into his own and leave a distinctive mark.

At Veuve, Dominique made significant improvements to La Grande Dame and launched a new multi-vintage cuvée, Extra Brut Extra Old, which was quite a new concept at the time.

Dominque recently inherited a new role, as Cellar Master and General Manager, for Champagne Lallier in 2021 where he says there is great opportunity for progress and creativity.

It was my pleasure to interview Dominique during my recent visit to Champagne.

Louis Roederer’s chef de caves, Jean Baptiste Lécaillon, is something like a unicorn in Champagne.

He is much more than a winemaker – or winegrower – for that matter. It’s no secret that he has been a trailblazer for progressive sustainability, not only at the Maison, but across the entire industry. I like to think of him as a grand philosopher – a kind of maestro – for the region’s trajectory for environmental change to be better prepared for climate challenges, but also for what he terms ‘the pursuit of taste‘ and returning to craftsmanship.

Over more than two decades, Jean-Baptiste’s frustration for excellence has culminated in the Maison’s reputation as one of the finest in all of Champagne, with wines that consistently rank amongst the best within wine critic circles and various media.

But today, we are here to talk about Champagne’s most exclusive Rosé – Cristal Rosé – because this year is particularly special, marking 50 years since its first vintage in 1974.

These are precious and rare wines, meticulously and lovingly made that possess a softness and deliciousness that is not heavy, nor light, within a finely chiselled chalk framework.

In 2007, Cristal Rosé became Jean-Baptiste’s first biodynamically farmed ‘baby’, which was also the first for a prestige champagne. Their beautiful evolution as a wine over time, punctuated with textural luxury, represents the culmination of this long-documented path to biodynamics and craftsmanship.

It was my honour to sit down with Jean-Baptiste Lécaillon on the occasion of Cristal Rosé’s 50th Anniversary, for this special interview.

Charles Heidsieck’s acclaimed Blanc des Millénaires has earned cult status amongst those lucky enough to have tried it.

It’s mineral and pure, playing more to the soil than sunshine, but finding its balance here too. Only chardonnay taken from five grand crus in the Côte des Blancs is used in this effortlessly delicious and smoothly textured champagne of euphoric wonder.

Long lees ageing in Charles’ heritage listed crayères produces these champagnes with a velvety texture and creamy richness – without being yeasty – aromatically reminiscent of its chalky origins and astonishingly fresh.

Today I have the privilege of speaking with Charles’ Executive Director, Stephen Leroux, as part of a world first taste of the surprising release of Blanc des Millénaires 1996 and the lastest release from Blanc des Millénaires 2014.

Today we are going to delve into the mysterious world of reductive champagne winemaking. If you’re a champagne lover – or any wine lover – no doubt you’ve heard this discussed in a way that is oversimplified, or maybe misleading. But it is a hugely complex and sometimes confusing topic.

The best examples of reductive winemaking, produce wines of freshness and fruit character that are pure and layered with elegance and tension. This stands in contrast to oxidative winemaking which allows a controlled exchange with the air, producing styles that can be medium to full bodied with a rounded mouthfeel and notes of jelly fruits in the case of chardonnay or hazelnut and tobacco in Pinot Noir.

During this podcast, we will navigate through the complexity with the multi-award winning sparkling winemaker Kate Laurie from Deviation Road Winery in the Adelaide Hills. If you’re in Australia, perhaps you’ve heard of Kate, but you may not be unaware of her extensive background living and studying in Champagne, notably at the Lycée Viticole d’Avize. Her studies and work experience included writing a thesis in French and gaining experience at numerous growers whom she still counts among her many local friends.

I hope you enjoy this detailed discussion.

Today we’re going to look at typicity. Typicity can be seen as what is ‘typical’ for a wine’s origins  - geography, terroir, varietal type, even viticulture and winemaking. But what does it mean when applied to champagne?  I cannot think of anyone more qualified to talk about this concept of typicity than my guest today, Marcell Kustos PhD, who has built an impressive career as a fine wine and hospitality consultant, working with some of Australia’s best restaurants including the multi award-winning Restaurant Botanic.

After obtaining a qualification in food engineering and winemaking operations, Marcell started his career as a food product developer before turning his hand to wine. Working as a sommelier while undertaking a Master's degree in gastronomy, he went on to complete a PhD in food, wine and emotional pairing at the University of Adelaide in collaboration with Wine Australia and UC Davis.

He is the recipient of the ASVO Advanced Wine Assessment Course Scholarship, Wine Communicators Australia Wine Industry Mentor Program, Vinitaly International Academy Italian Wine Ambassador Scholarship, Sommeliers Australia Education Scholarship and Wine Australia Research Scholarship.

He has also been a contributing author in several academic and industry journals and continues to evolve as a wine judge.

It was my privilege to interview him for this podcast.

I first met Stephen Leroux in 2018 during a visit to Charles Heidsieck in Reims. He greeted me with a warm smile and a friendly handshake, before getting down to tasting business. Unusually we started with Charles’ Rosé Reserve.

He told me, “we like to start with a non-vintage rosé as the amount of reserve wine is twice less – at 20% with just five to six years’ of age. In our Brut Reserve, it’s the opposite with 40% reserve wine at an average of 10 years of age.”

It was a pivotal moment that re-framed my mind to appreciate the significance of the reserve wine system in creating Charles’ unequivocal style. Their proportion and age has a massive effect on the body of the wine. Indeed, the non-vintage rose was far fresher than the non-vintage brut.

Charles’ characterful sourcing of fruit – notably the inclusion from Montgueux – and generous and masterful inclusion of reserve wines in their NVs sets the scaffolding for the Maison’s cathedral-like structure, richness and complexity.

In this interview I talk to Stephen about Charles’ defining style but also how it’s evolving as well as the rise and rise of Charles’ under his leadership and through the incredible work of former and current chefs de caves.

Tom Hewson is a writer and self-confessed ‘bubblehead’ specialising in a subject he is most passionate about – champagne.

Tom joined Decanter’s team of expert writers earlier in 2023, where he provides incredibly detailed coverage on champagne and other sparkling wines, as well as special reports for Tim Atkin MW and as a judge for the 2023 Decanter World Wine Awards.

His love of words and wine came together in an unconventional way, during COVID, when he gave up his life on the road as a jazz musician and became inspired to start his now acclaimed blog – Six Atmospheres – along with a number of educational and rather entertaining videos on social media.

Tom’s highly-regarded publication ‘English Sparkling Wine 2020’, was released during this time and remains one of the widest independent wine-by-wine surveys for this kind of wine.

Today, Tom continues his career as a musician whilst pursuing his love of the world’s finest bubbles.

This year I spent some time with Tom in Champagne. It was my privilege to sit down with him during harvest 2023 for this interview.

Peter Liem is one of Champagne’s most recognised and celebrated ambassadors. Known for his almost surgical approach to dissecting and interpreting Champagne’s unique terroir, he has been one of the region’s greatest pioneers in bringing our awareness back to Champagne’s sense of place.

As a young wine professional in the 1990s, he got his first thirst for champagne with a bottle of 1979 Salon. That bottle of Salon, he says, from a single village of Le Mesnil-sur-Oger was no less complete than the massively blended champagnes that he and the world was used to. It tasted different, but why was it this way?

That moment in time has inspired a life-long pursuit of curiosity and questioning the expression of Champagne’s vineyard origins and the concept of terroir.

The ensuing decades has seen Peter become a local citizen, initially travelling a few times a year to owning a home in Epernay. During this time, he has forged an impressive career for his authorship of the multi-award-winning ‘Champagne: The Essential Guide to the Wines, Producers, and Terroirs of the Iconic Region’, the online resource ChampagneGuide.net, as a lecturer for the Wine Scholar's Guild and as co-founder of the annual La Fête du Champagne event program in New York, amongst many other things.

Over the past year Peter and I have spent some incredible moments together bonding over our mutually shared passion for champagne, which has been a deep personal privilege for me. It was my honour to sit down with him, during harvest 2023, for this special interview.

Today it’s my great pleasure to introduce one of Australia’s leading and most respected wine professionals. Annette Lacey is Group Beverage Manager for Solotel, overseeing a large and diverse range of hospitality venues in Sydney, which includes Matt Moran’s multi award-winning restaurants.

She completed the rigorous Master of Wine program in 2020 and is a certified WSET educator focusing on developing the next generation of wine professionals.

Annette was also selected for the highly prized Len Evans tutorial and was winner of the prestigious 2014 Vin de Champagne Award (professional category) which is where I got know first know her.

She has been an associate wine judge at numerous wine shows around Australia and participates in trade and educational tastings, presentations and masterclasses.

Over the years, I have gotten to know Annette as co-presenter at one of my events in Sydney but also as a contributor to VINE & BUBBLE where her knowledge and passion for champagne has clearly shined through.

There are few people in Australia’s hospitality scene who command the level of respect, amongst peers, that our next guest does.

Amanda Yallop is the group wine director at FINK, overseeing an extensive and demanding program of leading restaurants and bars: Quay, Bennelong, OTTO Sydney, OTTO Brisbane, Firedoor (Surry Hills), Gildas and Beach Byron Bay.

In 2013, Amanda became a Scholar of Len Evans Tutorial. She’s an alumni of the Advanced Wine Assessment Course through The Australian Wine Research Institute, a wine judge in Australia and also at the Decanter UK Wine Awards, as well as the annual Ruinart Challenge in Australia.

Amanda was awarded Gault & Millau's Sommelier of the Year 2016, and is a Dame Chevalier, L’Ordre des Coteaux de Champagne - amongst many other things.

I had the pleasure of spending a week in Champagne with Amanda during harvest 2022 where it’s fair to say that we bonded over some great wines and very good times.

Since 1829 Champagne Bollinger has been making great wines with a powerful and aromatically rich fruit profile.

The Maison has forged a clear identity with its rich pinot noir driven style earning a legion of fans from James Bond to the British Royal Family.

While many Maisons chose long ago to undertake stainless steel vinification, the Maison decided overwhelmingly to use oak. This combined with the chalky typicity of Bollinger’s terroir – namely in Aӱ, Verzenay and Cuis - produces a unique and recognisable style.

Today, I’m talking to Bollinger’s chef de caves, Denis Bunner.

He talks to us about the complexity of their flagship, Special Cuvée, what they are doing to manage the effects of climate change, and what it takes to craft an outstanding blanc de noirs.

Sara Underdown, publisher and presenter of VINE & BUBBLE, takes you on a journey to discover the real story of champagne - the people, the region, the history and - of course - the wine. We travel to Champagne and all over Australia, talking with the Cellar Masters, industry representatives and everyone in between to connect wine lovers with the story behind the finest bubbles of all. Make sure you follow and subscribe to get the latest podcast uploads.

Today I am in Champagne chatting with Essi Avellan about her remarkable personal and professional journey with champagne. Essi is Finland’s first Master of Wine, a renowned champagne and sparkling wine specialist, author of several wine books and has revised and extended the 3rd and 4th edition of Tom Stevenson’s award-winning Christie’s World Encyclopaedia of Champagne and Sparkling Wine. But not only! She is an organiser of the annual Grand Champagne Helsinki event, a reputed wine judge – notably for the Sparkling Wine World Championships - tasting panellist and writes for numerous publications. Essi has also knighted as a Chevalier by the Minister for Agriculture of France, amongst many other accolades. Hers is a path less travelled. Enjoy listening and santé!