Enterprise Digital – the podcast

This episode picks up on the debate that was started at the recent HDI conference between Charlie Araujo and Ken Gonzales. This looked at the existential proposition about the future and existence of the ‘ITSM’ industry…!? Are we just talking about words and definitions? The various Industry elements of ITSM are gradually disappearing – does this even matter? We agree that the functions and needs for core elements of Service Management will not disappear, but is there really a coherent industry? Charlie Araujo is an industry analyst, writer, podcaster and commentator, and author of The Quantum Age of IT. This is a brilliant must-hear conversation..!

We revisit the discussion on the future life or death of the Service Desk – after getting a lot of feedback from the session in Episode 84. What will survive? There’s some stuff about predictive AI and also the need for human contact. We also do a short pre-SITS preview, with some surprising results about ESM and key topics…

Ian and Barclay discuss the current status of ESM – the original inspiration for the podcast. Is this still a viable and living ‘ology’? We focus on the original definitions that we discussed and look at whether or not these are applicable now and whether ESM is alive or dead? We look at the reality of what is in use around this area and also whether our own taxonomy and definitions really reflect this.  There’s also some clarity on the relative standing of ESM and ITSM. We also include some discussion about recent and upcoming events.

This session includes a detailed discussion of some of the ethical questions and impact associated with AI. Can we ascribe ethics to AI technology? Or is are these issues a further exposure of human frailty and ethical behaviour? Does the AI have a conscience and moral compass, or is it just a mirror to us as humans? This is the 3rd of the Entdig AI series, and we use a variety of experience and knowledge to tray and wrestle with these philosophical questions. We also talk about trains…

This week we discuss and explore the Service management and AI ‘Elephant in the room’. We hear a lot of very practical and senior discussions around the future of the Service Desk – do we really need this function if we can automate out the work? What are the implications, how realistic is this? What does this mean for the IT career path if Service Desk is an entry point? How do we continue to manage relationships with users? We discuss all the options including the ‘progressive’ service desk. Needless to say, although we have some differing view on this, we also have a lot o agreement… Well maybe. Is it inevitable, or should we be careful what we wish for..??!!

Our guest is industry analyst Eveline Oehrlich – who has significant analyst experience in previous roles with Forrester, RIA, DevOps institute and Peoplecert. We discuss and debate where the analysts fit in in the development of thought leadership, data and direction. The discussion also focuses on printed burgers, analyst relations, and how we need more flexible understanding and knowledge of how to make tools and frameworks work for us - i.e. how to ‘slice the tomato’ according to the type of cuisine… Listen in for more insight and a great discussion.

No this is not more hype this is real research and analysis, from our guest Ollie O’Donoghue, Director of Cognizant Research.

This week’s episode is definitely one of the most enlightening and exciting episodes that we’ve had on the podcast. We discuss some fantastic research content – just released and highly topical and useful.  This looks at 1000s of current job types and projects forward to identify the jobs that will be impacted by AI, and to what extent. The output is challenging, although in reality not anywhere like the scary and hype-filled Sci-fi stuff we are regularly exposed to. This is The 2nd of our AI Series with Ian Aitchison , James Finister, Steve Cave and Barclay Rae. Listen and get ahead of the game..!!  

Generative AI Economic Model - Oxford Economics | Cognizant

This is the first of a mini-series of AI based podcast, where we look at the some of the non-shiny and non- technical aspect of AI – ie how we approach this from a business perspective. This will feature some additional guests, including James Finister on this initial episode. We will discuss human aspects, ethics, risk, feasibility, practical opportunities This session looks at some areas of AI in the news, then we discuss key messages and challenges, including short, medium and long term potential developments. No sandwiches are discussed or harmed…although rabbits are mentioned.

Find out how BRC could help you gain the insights needed to supercharge your ROI through an effective AI implementation - https://www.barclayrae.com/our-services/ai-workshops/

The one where we discuss what’s happened in the last year – the industry, the podcast, and us as people… We have had a year of absorption around AI and experience – what lies ahead..?. As people there have also been opportunities and challenges – and none less than for Ian, who has had to face some major health challenges. Thankfully he’s met them and on the mend. We are good to go for 2024 – lookout for some new podcast options..!

This week Ian and Barclay discuss some recent industry events, SDI Spark, itSMF UK, SMW and also the sad demise of itSMF USA. It’s also a year since the launch of ChatGPT – what will the next phase of this involve..?  Ian also mentions the concept of the ‘Innovathon’ – crazy ideas presented for innovation. What about robots that kill you…!? Or how can we really get some goodness from the AI revolution? Then we get silly and imagine a giant ‘clippy’ controlling us all…  Plus, look out for some new themed podcasts in 2024.

ESM revisited – what do we really mean by this? It was the original thought behind this podcast when started a couple of years ago. There’s always something new that comes along to get in the way of this, but it keeps on coming back – like the way CMDB remains as a brand and something we should do that we keep coming back to. Whilst we might want to focus on ESM, the world of marketing always loos to the next shiny thing… In this discussion we focus on some of the key elements in ESM which is effectively about how we work and pass work between us. The challenge often is how we get this moving and approved in a large organisation, where there are different agendas. Also we discuss what might be the next big shiny thing…??  Whilst there is talk of flow and digital and tools and projects and stuff – talking of flow, we move on to the bar for another, er ‘sandwich… ?’

We discuss the forthcoming itSMF UK conference in the UK, where James will be speaking and discussing Neurodiversity. This in relation to how we understand and work better with neurodiverse people – there are some roles and areas of work where there are particular skills and capabilities where the ‘superpower’ moniker works, and many where it doesn’t. The challenge is knowing the difference and how to manage people and get the best from them and for them. We also look forward to the next ‘emergent’ and ‘convergent’ things for our industry – these may include AI, governance and many other options, but it should be about doing things differently. Experimentation, elevated evolution, synchronicity, sustainability. How do we get away from doing the same old stuff..? The discussion is also peppered with conference and event references – ahead of the much anticipated ITSM23 conference.  

Is it a coincidence that ITSM sage Roy Atkinson will be speaking at The SDI Spark conference on Halloween? Maybe not, but he will certainly be presenting some quite terrifying statistics on the cost of failure in IT and Service Desks… For this podcast, Roy’s second appearance on the podcast, we discuss these stats and numbers, as well as some general trends in the industry. We also discuss the big metrics question – i.e. what do you do to respond to feedback? What actions do the metrics lead to? Are we really data-driven? We also discuss Roy’s favourite sandwich...

Ken returns to the podcast, now head of analyst relations at Freshworks, having moved from a major analyst firm to ‘the dark side’ - or the bright side, depending on your perspective! The discussion looks at how we view different roles and activities in our industry – particularly when seen from a different perspective. There are some great insights into analyst relations and the ethics and effort that goes into that, as well as the momentous definition of the ’perpetual confusion of IT managers’ – Classic!! All linked to the current beer/hops crisis. Listen on… (Ken’s voice get a little muffled at one point – he then changed his mike so it doesn’t last long).

What have we (Ian and Barclay) been up to,..?  Mapping, Wardley mapping, sustainability is service management and vice versa?, just use the best bits that work for you, why do people ask if ‘this is right according to BP’? Watch out for the best practice police, perfection is the enemy of execution, proportionality, move fast and break things – is this terrible and dangerous? Back to sustainability, and quality without paralysis. We’ll all make mistakes and resilience is key – like having a well-stocked bar… Yes it’s a service management word salad that makes perfect sense…

Simone is making her 2nd appearance on the podcast and this session is a discussion based on some current research that Ian, Simone and Barclay are working on. This is basically exploring the contrasting direction of AI capability with the growth of human and experience management. The discussion includes some agreements and also some challenges and disagreements – all of which make for fun and entertainment… and the word ‘dystopia’ features… it’s a crackling chat..!

Our guest is Anthony Orr, who is an experienced and well-known member of the ITSM community, as a member of the HDI top 25, with BMC and other vendors, and as an ITIl author. Anthony currently works with SDI Presence, which is an MSP that provides local levels of support (not the Service Desk Institute…). The discussion moves from internal IT transformation and business value to the wider scope of ESM and the ‘Zero Moment of Truth’..! i.e. how we can get smart to support customer success, not just fixing tech. In IT we do a lot of the right thigs but they are not connected – how do we move from transactional compliance, to compassion and customer success..!? Well, as ever we end up wine-tasing… Definitely worth listening and quaffing to..!

This is a short Ian and Barclay only discussion episode, introduced with some valuable advice on armadillo-related honey - yes..!?.  Actually, we discuss the notion of how we can manage teams and plan the levels of staffing that is needed, and how this is a key element in much operational and management thinking. The regular cry is that ‘more people in the team will mean we get things done better/faster’, although this not necessarily the case. We also discuss some of the different approaches to getting work done and include governance, the ’why’, plus also how we still need management, no matter how ‘agile’ we are… Well of course. This is a very focussed conversation, given that we started with armadillos.

Our guest is David Wright from SDI – Chief Value Officer and keen supporter of all things alien, UFO and sci-fi… We try to set out an intelligent discussion around the future and present with AI, GAI,  AGI and much more. The potential is huge, being developed at a challenging speed, now with AI tools to speed up how we work. Should we trust this technology, or how much can we trust this..? We also look at what the practical service management opportunities are in the short and medium term, in relation to risk, LLMs in ITSM tools, ‘shadow IT 2.0’, and Increasing the time to value. Is Prompt Engineer the role that is redundant before anyone gets the job..? ‘Predict, prevent automate and realise’ as a teaser for some new innovations with AI. Should we stop and take a check before ‘HAL’ takes us over…? Or should we stop and go to the bar ??!! A sizzling conversation… scary, fascinating and much more.

This episode is a revisit to Glasgow University, who are well on their way to a mature ESM operation, largely through the work and steering of Mark Temple. Mark was an early guest on the podcast when he had already created a number of ESM capabilities and now there are many further areas added, hours of work saved and successes to discuss. There’s still more to do, however, we discuss some great developments and successes, where e.g. over time, previous naysayers are now keen to develop collaboration. One area for more development is in marketing and promoting the successes – some of which are quite amazing in terms of thousands of hours saved. Great discussion which of course ends up in the bar again…

Our Guest is Mitchell Pautz, Senior Service Management Analyst at the University of California – a ‘small’ university of over 50,000 people… 😊 Mitchell has a key role in the university, supporting a diverse community, He also has a good practical approach to managing expectations and delivering effective solutions – not just about trying to ‘delight’ users. We discuss a variety of topics around service delivery, catalogue, risk and experience. Mitchell is also a leading light in Educause – the University membership organisation in North America – we discuss the value of this and other sector-based industry networking.  There’s some great practical advice and discussion, ending in the bar of course…  

Val Wilson manages a team of over 1000 service management practitioners in BT, across the UK and India. Despite the challenges of this role, she is an active member of the industry, as an itSMF board member and SITS/SDI events. This is a brilliant discussion on how to lead and inspire a successful organisation and its people. There are some great nuggets of wisdom on authentic and supportive leadership. We also discuss Val’s passion for supporting ex-military people into service management roles. We also discuss Val’s particular connection to a well-known drink (at the bar)…

This episode is another host interview session – this time with the ebullient Ian Aitchison. We trace his early career, through Studying Computer Science, then managing (murky?) night clubs and spinning vinyl, learning management and some great life and service skills. Then moving into IT, running a police service desk and moving to the software industry – from service desk to software product management - all with a ponytail and earring of course..!  Key themes include helping people through technology and managing and supporting service experience and promoting the industry… It’s an enlightening discussion to hear of Ian’s journey to date.

This is a fantastic episode with Hank Marquis – who works with Gartner but is speaking here on his own behalf, mostly around the psycho-metrics of service and service management people. The conversation focusses around feedback, how it is gathered and used, and the tools and academic background used to make some sense and develop practical and useful strategies for improvement. There’s a bit of Star Trek, people and personality profiling and experience management in there, plus a whole lot more. Ian is also surprised at Hank’s choice of go-to drink…

This is a discussion on the service management industry, based around a more broad and personal interview of host Barclay Rae. Ian provides suggested commentary on Barclay’s hair and sartorial style over the years, plus discussions about music, Glasgow, London, Mary Poppins, Live Aid, and his IT career, also, missing out some key bits like being CEO of itSMF UK. ..(senior moment). There is also some discussion around the life and challenges of working as a consultant. As ever we go to the bar where Barclay tries to dodge the idea of having a favourite drink.

This is a short episode and the first of an occasional series of ‘news’ or topical discussions around the industry. This Is with Barclay and Ian who talk about, well we can’t really say, but it’s about the stuff that’s going on in the industry, or what we can say about it, whatever it is… 

Humans collaborate, and parrots cooperate..! This is all you need to know about this episode. Our guest is French-Czech consultant David Billouz, who regularly provides ITSM insights via LinkedIn and other platforms. 

David clarifies some key elements of collaboration and cooperation, as well as the need for a phased approach. Somehow, we work parrots into this discussion. Confused. Curious? Then listen on..!  I ask the world’s longest-ever question… 

Some great discussion around the integration of ITSM, Agile, DevOps (C A L M S) and other different elements of a successful, sustainable, converged approach. I said CALMS…

This episode is a catch-up chat with Ian and Barclay – discussing a number of topics such as Pink23, digital experience management, global travel, the value of good partnerships in business, and other SMW– service management whimsy… As ever we chew the fat over a few points of trivia before setting the world to rights and the heading for the podcast bar. 

Ignore the socks comment, this is another piece of initial trivia, but this episode features our amazing guest Claire Agutter, who explains SIAM clearly to us and also discusses some of the findings and learnings from the Annual SIAM report, which she produces with Scopism. Claire has great insight and experience in training, and development of IP in the ITSM world and we discuss how SIAM makes sense in a multi-vendor environment, and also beyond IT.

Our guest this week is David Barrow, an experienced service Industry practitioner and consultant, and the author of a new book on co-creating value with ITIL 4. Whilst not directly discussing ITIL, we explore co-creation by co-creating the podcast discussion on different approaches to value, the value of the guiding principles, plus also how we can develop communities to focus on specific requirements for co-creation. There is also now a real challenge on who can ask the longest question on the podcast… it doesn’t matter but we d still end up in the bar…

This week we review the podcasts that we’ve produced over the last year – a diverse and fascinating variety of topics, as well as a brilliant spectrum of guests. We begin with a ‘poem’ about the podcast, created by an AI bot – fascinating and impressive content, if not a poem… We differ a little on the current level of practicality around XLAs – surely an ongoing topic for 2023. We both have our own little rants.. Mostly we reflect on some of the fantastic guests and conversations that have contributed to the podcast over 2022. This will continue and further develop in 2023 - we look forward to that. Cheers and Happy New Year!

Our guest is the debonair Duncan Watkins, from Forrester Consulting – Duncan is a well-known and respected member of the UK and global ITSM community. The discussion focuses on comparing current approaches to employee experience and customer/user experience. We discuss similarities and differences, with a focus on what organisations are trying to do – not just the hype. Duncan mentions a ‘spectrum of experience’ – a useful reflection. How do we avoid XLAs falling into the same traps as SLAs – maybe product management as a direction – certainly understanding different types of business… It’s a great discussion and a valuable debate on a highly current topic.

An excellent, enlightening, and exhilarating episode – with our guest Simon Wardley, of Wardley Maps fame..! Simon defines and discusses the challenges that led him to mapping and how this can really help decision-making by providing context and changing relationships as well as the fixed points that are usually shown on graphs. We discuss doctrine tables, principles, and how most maps are not really maps. We also discuss the people side and warning flags about the ‘re-org’ culture that bedevils most organisations on a permanent basis – good advice is to sort out principles first. Our principles take us regularly to the bar and we also discover Simon’s preferred tipple for (dis) ‘orientation…’

Our guest this week is Karen Brusch, experience Service Designer in the financial Service industry, as well as a long standing itSMF contributor, currently chair of itSMF UK. With the annual itSMF UK conference coming up on 14thNovember, this is a timely discussion. We discuss the challenges of service design, how to create the ‘swan’ experience (smooth and seamless), plus what is needed under water to make it all happen. We also cover the impact of different approaches and how this is causing more stress to those people delivering ‘faster, better’ etc… Do we really understand the impact of what we are building and on those being tasked to deliver and run these services – plus ‘agile causes stress…’ Yes – (you’ll need to listen in). Let’s think about context and consequences, not just outcomes.. We also do a little conference preview and also mention our late friend and colleague Rebecca Beach, who recently passed away… A stiff drink is needed to toast her memory.

Lisa runs a successful and growing HR consultancy business – providing the ‘HR’ department for many organisations, particularly in the tech industry. Many changes have taken place over recent years with employee experience roles becoming prevalent.  We discuss culture, values, trust, and the implications of home-working surveillance tools, as well as the challenges of how to move from an entrepreneurial culture to a more structure and process-driven way (often a challenge…) business leaders are often not the best team leaders or managers…!! A great conversation around the intersection of people, tech, management and culture.

Sherry is an experienced and prolific trainer and coach, for leadership, particularly for women in Tech. She has come from the IT and service desk world but now focuses on leadership coaching as well as managing change projects. Sherry brings a different and refreshing focus to our discussion with the perspective of how we are developing our leaders and leadership capabilities. The discussion is full of sage nuggets of advice around leadership qualities, the value of coaching, and how we can help to develop people to be more effective in new management roles. This is a fascinating discussion and also a new perspective on our ESM theme. And yes it ends up in the bar..

Our guest is Alan Nance who has been a key player in the Service Management world since the beginning of time - or at least a while anyway since ITIL was knee high to a grasshopper. Alan is a driving force behind the XLA movement and is involved in developing and taking the whole XLA concept to market through his company XLA Collab. We discuss the essence of experience management, what it is and how it can be used in relation to service management. This is still a new area and the concepts are evolving as well as adoption growing. There’s much to learn and appreciate in this revealing and insightful conversation. And yes we do end up in the bar…

Jeffrey is a highly experienced ITSM practitioner and consultant with great energy and focus on doing the right things and doing them well. He also runs a successful podcast and has published lots of great advice on YouTube videos. We discuss how every organisation is an IT organisation but shouldn’t just focus on IT, how an organisation lost control of 159,000 laptops and why CMDB and why CMDB is important. This is a brilliant high energy and practical discussion around getting the basics as well as the shiny things right..! definitely a great bar-room chat!

We welcome Sandra from the Open University (and other university roles) to talk about how we can develop and integrate more rounded education of service management. How do we ensure that tech can IT education includes the relevant bits of service management that are relevant and useful? Too often we have young graduates with little business or SM skills or knowledge – and its important. Sandra has a breadth of knowledge and experience as an educator at the degree level in this area and we put the world to right on this, including how the Higher Education and commercial training organisations could work better together…

Rob is an ITSM renaissance man, with a keen interest and deep knowledge of a great variety of models, practices, standards and frameworks. His maps that bring these things together are legendary, as are his music videos..! We discuss how to get organisations working across barriers and frameworks and how to get product based (service management based?) consensus. Let’s talk simply about complexity..! Once it gets too tough for Barclay and Ian, we head for the bar..

This is our 50th episode and we are also celebrating now appearing on Apple podcasts! Our guest is the ‘very Dutch’ Dave Van Herpen (his quote)… Dave is an experienced practitioner and consultant for service transformation. He’s also been a core organiser for the SRVision/Service Manager days in Utrecht. He eschews ‘framework fetishists’ (don’t we all) and is clear on the need to clarify business goals before using specific models and frameworks. We discuss practical, positive approaches to Scrum, Kanban, Agile and Cynefin, amongst others, as well as the challenges of joined up DevOps and ITSM implementation. Dave makes a great point that a lot of the ‘framework wars’ occur more at conferences than the workplace. He also discusses valuable experience of agile and ITSM approaches outside of IT. Dave enjoys a good Dutch IPA who doesn’t?

Our intrepid (?),  mostly coherent (?) hosts have a focused discussion around the ITSM industry, recorded at the recent SITS show. Ian and Barclay discuss where we have come as an industry and some of the areas where there is increased activity. This includes experience management, enterprise service management (of course), and many other topics, including the fact that there has been a lot of change in ownership over recent years – highlighting the need and value of service management. Listen in for a shirt insightful discussion… and we don’t even go near a bar.

Once again we invite an industry legend to join the podcast. This week’s guest is the omnipresent Suresh GP – from TAUB solutions. Suresh has been a strong supporter and promoter of ITSM and other models and ways of working such SRE, BRM , Devops etc. This is a great discussion around how to make SRE work in particular – what is SRE? and how can we make it work in tandem with existing ways of working – if you want to learn about SRE and what’s involved in successful implementation then listen in now… We move from Incident management to storytelling about detect to correct etc. SRE is also clearly involved with customer experience, reliability, monitoring, observability and the long journey of successful transformation. Suresh enjoys a crisp lemonade refreshment, although the regular hosts need something stronger to take in all they have learned here…

We share the platform at SITS with David Wright, Chief Value and innovation Office from SDI, at the Service Desk and IT Support Show in London. Brilliant discussion relating to some recent SDI research, on the positive improvement in the perception of IT since Covid, recent changes, the impact of the pandemic – ‘this has moved things forward by 5 years, we’re all back, we’ve moved in and now we are talking about the future of the Service Desk and what this means in the new digital workplace. Experience management and new engagement… and much more. David talks 10 to the dozen, this is a dynamic and positive discussion – of course, we end up in the bar drinking Welsh beer..!?!?

Our guest is the chairman of Pink Elephant in North America, and has been working in the industry since before ITIL was a twinkle in anyone’s eyes… Originally from the UK North East and a keen Sunderland fan, Dave has lived in North America for over 30 years. Dave brings some real life pragmatic feedback on what organisations are still actually doing in terms of developing their (IT) services – and in IT that doesn’t necessarily mean a lot of the new ‘shiny’ stuff. Still a lot of core ITSM questions to answer and some basic courses are still the most popular..!

This is a really useful and practical discussion to bring us all back from the brink of ‘shiny-ism’... Of course, we end up at the bar as ever.

Our guest this week is Matthew who is an experienced ITSM expert from Skills Tx, with a focus on skills and competencies through his work with SFIA. We discuss all aspects of people development, from mental health to management, training, and development, and how we can move from a focus on knowledge to an understanding of what it means to develop real experience and competency. Learning to drive requires time and practice, not just reading the rules and details in a book. Matthew provides some insights on how organisations and countries (yes) are developing practical approaches.

We start with fish as possible cheap labour – yes. But then move on seriously to review the podcasts to date, our guests and topics over the last year. So many great sessions to review across the industry. We’re all getting out a bit more and attending events – we’ll also be at the SITS show in London 11th/12th May. Some of the themes keep coming back around the importance and need for focus on people, and experience – that’s what we’re talking about more and more, not just about Ai and bots… It’s also great to be in the same room with people..!. With Ian and Barclay.

This week’s guest is the multi-talented Karen Ferris – as author, trainer, consultant, who ‘accidentally’ wrote a book on Change – ‘Balanced Diversity’. We discuss a lot of current topics initially, from the value of horse-power and internet enabled cows to experience management. We also focus on the approach that Karen espouses in Balanced Diversity. The good new is that its quite straightforward – it’s about the ’why’, having good conversations and ongoing dialogue to engage people and bring them with us. Part of the challenge is to get people on board and remove their fears and uncertainties. All this takes time of course and that’s why many projects fail due to lack of realistic planning and the need for re-work. There’s a great example that comes up about how ‘nobody planned the pandemic’ – but still everyone ‘got it’ – ie had a shared sense of commitment. Thanks to Karen for a great discussion and also for getting up in the middle of the night to join us

This week’s guest is Tim Flower, a highly experienced IT thought leader and podcaster, with a wealth of varied experience across our industry. He is the Director of Business transformation at Nexthink and host of the Digital Experience DEC podcast.  The discussion centres around the developing world of Experience Management, XLAs, SLAs, SLDs, - with a focus on the ‘A’ – i.e. the ‘agreement. ‘ An XLA takes a village’ - we discuss, and also look at the current realistic and practical uptake of XLAs, and other aspects of how we can improve collaboration and data assimilation around service delivery, particularly in the new word of work… And yes we end up in the bar...

What do we mean by Experience Management? How do we make it work? Should we co-create experiences..? Are we going too far with this? Our guest this week is Greg Sanker, who works as CIO periodically, as well as podcasting, tweeting and authoring on ITSM and IT management. The conversation moves swiftly around enterprise and IT service management, then we look at experience from a fascinating ‘governance’ perspective. It’s not just asking people about their experience, maybe its also about already knowing this… Somehow we end up agreeing and having a drink at the bar.

This weeks’ guest Alan Berkson is Director of Analyst Relations for Freshservice – ‘the coolest job I the world’ – well he would say that. However, as we learn it is a much misunderstood and important role, that requires an understanding of everything going on in a company. Alan joined Freshworks in the early days in an ‘evangelist’ role – this has now grown into a major global brand.  The discussion focusses on various key aspects of trust – (PET)  Proactivity, Engagement and Transparency. Alan also draws on some clear distinctions around thought leadership and marketing, and how vendors can work with analysts to gain insight. After a really constructive and engaging chat, as ever we end up discussing exotic drinks in the bar.

This session's guest is the whirlwind of attitude, behaviour and culture (ABC) - Paul Wilkinson, of Gaming Works. Paul energy levels come from a daily diet of plutonium sandwiches, washed down with rocket fuel. Paul is the original service and value evangelist, who has preached the need for developing ABC rather than just processes or tools or other 'shiny' things. The discussion is focussed on how practically develop and improve culture, communications and other good behaviours that actually make a difference for success.  We need to use real language rather than jargon to improve communications, not just simply follow processes. If you want to learn about ABC and how simulations can be effective – listen on… Paul also claims to be retiring, but no one believes this

Listen to our guest Sally and you hear passion, commitment, focus, enthusiasm and a real understanding of what is needed to make service management successful. Sally was already a successful service management practitioner before she joined NHS digital – the IT and digital part of the UK NHS organisation. We discuss some eye-watering stats and the scale of change, particularly with Covid over the last 2 years, moving from 500K users to 60 million…!! We hear some great advice for modern/digital service management – the need for flexibility, recognition of people and of course the need for a clear sense of shared purpose. We need to know not only what we are expected to do but also why and this builds commitment and purpose – i.e. the passion!!. This must be our most motivational episode to date – play it to your team and stand back…!!!

Actually, despite the title, this is our Christmas and New Year special episode. To confirm that Ian was dressed as Father Christmas for this (audio) podcast..!

James is a well-known member of the global ITSM community, with a variety of industry associations, working as a partner with TCS, as well as being an experienced podcaster, with a history of broadcasting from various weird situations.. We put to right the worlds of service management, discussing how we confuse operations and metrics with governance (yes), the people and human element, the post-agile (yes) world, ISO38500 (yes). Ian also sets out the reality of the war-time ‘bat-bomb’ (yes!?).   The serious point in this discussion gets to the core – what are organisations there to do…are they working on doing this? We also need to include more tolerance, human centricity and focus in our commercial contracts - being human and inherently benevolent.

This session is short and features just hosts Ian and Barclay, doing a review and ‘lessons learned’ session. We note that there is more talk around people and humanity, mental health as major themes – would this have happened even `5 years ago? Its certainly not just about tools. We discuss the ideas espoused in the podcasts so far – some thinking that ESM can be damaging, if not part of a major wave of new ways of working. We’ve talked robots, the universe, Buddhists and bastards, moments that matter, radioactivity, experience.. and of course, the bar. Join us to listen and reflect or join us on the podcast in 2022..!

IT people don’t understand marketing or value – says this week’s guest Ryan Ogilvy in this engaging and practical episode. That’s a strong but generally true statement and we debate the need to get away from just focussing on what we do to why we are doing it… Ryan has worked on a many projects over the years and comes with a great portfolio of experience, working as an external consultant/contractor with many diverse organisations.  The discussion is highly practical and keeps retuning to the core point of the need to do the right thing, and simply, not just follow orders or expect a toolset to deliver ‘value’ without some understanding of the bigger picture. We also discover the 18monte Zoom call and the fact that Ryan has some dubious claim to being a Scottish Lord. Or is this just another excuse for whisky drinking ? you decide.

This episode was recorded and aired as a session at this years itSMF UK annual conference – the 30th Anniversary event. For that we needed a really special guest and of course ‘industry treasure’ Ivor fitted the bill perfectly, as we

were discussing past present and future. There are some great nuggets of wisdom here which span the early days to current and future thinking around service management – why wouldn’t we do things in an agile way, why don’t we trust ourselves

and our judgement more, and why we should focus on people not just on tech. We also identify that success is about not being visible... We don’t solve the puzzle of the cats that are terrified of cucumbers but really who cares. We end up in the Horseshoe bar in Glasgow for a nice wine…

Matter Beran is our guest on this brilliant episode – Matt is an experienced Product experience specialist who has worked with Service Now and now is with InvGate. He is also great company and this session is peppered with much positive energy and insight. WE discuss the difference between what is basicall ‘workflow and forms@ and the wider Organizational change aspects of SM, plus we also touch on how we shouldn’t just rely on the vendors to define what ESM is. As ever we end up in the bar and he enjoys creating his own cocktails… Great listening!

Our guest is the head of Service Management for Deliotte, Nathan MacDonald – also a director at itSMF UK. We discuss how Service Management outside of IT doesn’t have the same baggage that has developed across IT and IT silos and tribes over the years. There is also a great opportunity to really develop people and how they work in developing (IT) SM – these concepts are also really get more relevant with changes, also ITIL 4 has helped. We also debate whether we should keep the (IT) in service management… We also should stop letting ITSM vendors control the debate over ESM… As ever the bar is a better draw and Nathan’s choice is one for celebration.

Our guest for this fantastic discussion is the ex-sceptic, Rob England, of Teal Unicorn, author of Standard and Case, and much much more. Rob’s current focus is on good/better/open management, with a good sprinkling of agile practise in there, probably best summarised in this conversation as – you can be nice, you don’t have to be a b*st*rd..! We also cover the impact and inputs to Robs’ book - Standard and Case – how it has been appropriated and how its still hugely relevant. This is quite simply a brilliant conversation, and everyone interested in good management as well as good service management should listen in…

Jon is a senior product manager at BMC with a lot of experience and active thought leadership in ITSM and DevOps. The conversation starts with a communal admission that we all had to look up ‘liminal’ when it started being used by Professor Dave Snowden (ref Cynefin). However, the concept of working at the edges and boundaries across frameworks and new ways of working is a key element in the discussion covering DevOps, ITSM, ITIL 4 (Jon contributed to 2 books) Team Topologies (the book) and the notion of working across silos in value streams. Onboarding is about ‘working from day 1’, not ‘get a laptop’. This is an excellent conversation that flows across a number of liminal areas with seamless ease… Eventually we also hit the bar.

Wow, this discussion is a creative caravanserai of ideas and ‘ologies. Our guest is the indomitable Mark Smalley, thinker, writer and builder of bridges across the IT industry. We move ineluctably from potty-training for cows, to service science and Buddhist sagacity – yes that sentence is true…! Mark has been involved in bringing together a whole new set of worlds of thinking as the lead on the High Velocity IT ITIL 4 book – the least ITIL-like ITIL book ever…we debate the taxonomy of services, products goods and the meaning of life, then enjoy a nice cup of tea at the bar…

This week’s guest is an experienced technology consultant and author – with 4 books to his name, Kevin J Smith, who also started his life working on the shuttle programme at NASA…  From working in technology, Kevin is now fossed on the human side of work more than just frameworks and this is reflected in his latest book on the humanity of IT. We discuss a number of aspects of the evolution of how we work and use IT, now with a renewed focus on enjoying work – the happiness factor – both for our customers and of course our people. Kevin’s point about ‘happiness is contagious’ is well made and reflects the need to improve the work experience, as a more broadly diverse workforce. We are also now the ‘hub of the wheel’ for organisations, and we should focus on innovation more than just fixing things and keeping things running. We end up on the opportunity that we have to bring in new types of people to our workplace. As is ever the case our podcast workplace drifts into the bar, Kevin enjoys a bourbon..

Our first four-person discussion on the podcast..! This is a brilliant practical discussion around The Vinci ESM approach , led by Darren, and supported by Pat Bolder from Hornbill, Vinci’s software partner. Darren has a great role as the ESM driver, outside of IT, although he’s from an IT and ITSM background. He also identifies the value of selling and communicating ESM concepts in simple business terms, not using IT or even ‘ESM’ language  Pat is also on hand to provide a vendor perspective – having been doing this in some form since 2005 – as well as ‘navigating hype’. He also provides a variety of useful data on some benefits of ESM working. Not surprisingly this discussion ends up in the bar.

Shane is a well-known contributor to the ITSM world, now as Director, Enterprise Architecture at Service Now and with a variety of previous roles, including an early stint as a prison guard. This discussion covers a range of topics with a clear focus on experience management and the need to focus on key business activities – ie the ‘moments that matter’… We also discuss the growing role of enterprise architects particularly as these are ever more being delivered as mostly business (and not IT) roles (Experience architects). This podcast discussion is full of great nuggets of clarity and insight. We also visit the bar and talk bourbon…

Charlie Araujo is a successful business leader and author – his book ‘the Quantum Age of IT’ raised a number of issues and questions about the whole technology industry – i.e. the traditional IT organisation is dead, we are entering a new ‘retail’ phase in our evolution. We discuss that and the outcomes that have happened since it was published nearly a decade ago. Our industry has changed and has had to – what has this meant for IT people and practitioners? We discuss the business side of this development, as well as touching on low code, citizen developers, IT democratisation, and hybrid IT organisations. An excellent discussion, followed by some refreshment at the podcast bar…

Normally brightly coloured in attire, on this occasion just bright (as ever), this episode features an excellent discussion with the distinguished and sagacious Stuart Rance. We dip into several storied from Stuarts wide experience of working

In IT and ITSM, with particular relevance the need to work with people, not just do things to them. The way to get people to do things is not by giving them personal target, but by setting shared goals. The core of ESM is also touched on and the need

to ensure that we develop a flexible ‘case’ based approach to work that needs it, and not just assume that all work can be classified as standard. The value from service management comes from working with people.  For ESM, ITIL’s history is in IT – its future is in (wider) service management. Some great thoughts from one of the industry’s eminent thinkers and prominent dressers…

We welcome Mauricio from Mexico City to the podcast – he is an eminent figure in the ITSM and Service Desk world, as a key ITIL and SDI contributor. We discuss a wide range of applications of robotics via ITSM and ESM, plus the (beautiful) concept of ‘co-bots’ – i.e. robots and that work with and in support of people – not the dystopian view of robot sci-fi destruction. Mauricio also highlights the need for good service management as the business focus and link to ensure that this technology is used in accordance with business needs and objectives.  We also dip in a little to the current Latin American market. Mauricio also enjoys a fine cognac – who doesn’t..!

We welcome ‘ITSM Ninja’ John to the podcast where the discussion starts with a really good/bad joke from Barclay – you decide. John has vast experience in the service management world, bringing

great business and people perspectives to the discussion, particularly how ESM is possibly an indicator of organisational maturity. We discuss how ESM is currently only really seen as the

toolset, and how this needs to change. “If you are not supporting the customer, then you are supporting someone who is supporting the customer”  - is a nice way of saying we all play our part in service delivery too.

John is also clear that organisations don’t really understand the cost of service delivery – on that note we move to the bar, for some classy cocktails.

Our guest this week is the irrepressible industry analyst Stephen Mann, from ITSM.Tools. Stephen is a much respected figure in the industry who has created and defined several movements and initiatives around opening up access to information and data to practitioners. We discuss data from his recent work, which shows that 67% of organisations already do some sort of ESM. We also touch on whether ‘ESM’ is a name that will stick for this – its currently the best we’ve got. The conversation also covers the well-being of people working in IT and how we need to ensure that this is given the attention it deserves, particularly with the growing spectre of automation/Ai and the extra demands this puts on people. Ultimately Stephen’s focus in on ensuring that we do the right thing to do good business, and that includes looking after people.

What have we learned after 20 episodes of the podcast about Enterprise Service Management? Ian and Barclay review the content from the first few sessions, discussing the input that we have had from a variety of experienced people from our industry. We realise that ESM really does mean business, people and the need for leadership as well as automation, new tools and ways of working. Will robots take our jobs to save money or are we safe as we will be more needed than ever? The over-riding learning is that service management offers opportunities to the whole of business and is not just about ‘IT’. We also gained some insight on our guests via their preferences for drinks. One thing for sure – we are not just talking about IT or ITSM – ‘if its ITSM, its not strategic enough..’!

In this episode we are joined by the ‘mixologist’ Simone Moore – an Aussie ITSM consultant now living in France with a cornucopia of concepts to ponder on around the new world of work, communications and interaction. From Ian’s initial discussion on the options and changes with new ways of creating ‘meat’, we move through a myriad of ideas and concepts, including H2H – human to human, managing flow, plus how do we refocus on the human element, in order to achieve the opportunities with new technology and ways of working? We know that crocodile tastes like chicken – but we also have the opportunity to create a new type of chicken.. (it makes perfect sense when you listen). Listen and learn, and don’t put your fingers in a rock pool..!! Oh and Simone raises her favourite tipple at the podcast bar…

A fantastic journey of discussion around service management practice and philosophy, from Troy, Pink Elephant’s man ‘in the room where it happens…’ Troy is a Director of Pink Elephant and a highly regarded trainer, consultant and writer across a number of service management and IT disciplines. We discuss the challenges with the ‘enterprise’ approach, covering societal, tribal and organisational elements amongst others, as well as how to approach and engage with silos, which begs the question ‘How wide is your sense of us?’. We also get into 3 levels of transformation, 2 modes of operating, Conway’s Law, real Devops, leadership, governance, Toyota and much more that takes the discussion way beyond IT or ESM, and into culture and our development as people. After all that, you will need a ‘nut brown ale…’

Discussing the New Incident Management model, plus the sale of Axelos to PeopleCert.

This SPECIAL episode discusses the big issues and questions of the day, with our special guest Ken Gonzalez..! Ken is a well-known and respected voice in the industry, as a practitioner and analyst. Ken works with Gartner, although he is expressing only his personal opinions here. We hear about Ken’s previous lives as a Marine and musician, then dive straight into looking at the big issues of the day – the new IT Revolution Incident Management Framework, plus the sale of Axelos to PeopleCert. What do we say about these things?? – listen in to hear..! We also hear that Ken enjoys beers, porter, stout and a good Belgian…?! (you need to listen to the end to get that..)

Doug Tedder is a highly experienced consultant and trainer, who always speaks his mind with clarity, good sense and great insight. Doug’s view is that ESM should not repeat the mistakes that have been made with ITSM – i.e. to ‘inflict’ people to do things, with good intent but often without explanation. We need good governance to make this work and we shouldn’t just rely on the IT team to do this. Digital transformation, Ai and automation also need to be viewed from beyond IT. Also, we can’t just expect the tools to deliver value and collaboration. We also discuss the tough question of who is the owner of this…is it COO, CIO, CEO..? We also learn about some very good bourbon…

We are joined by Roman Jouravlev, the Axelos programme manager for ITIL 4 and the conscience and brilliant mind of ITSM. The discussion moves from various current flavours of service management, to identifying these as being part of the same thing. We shouldn’t need ITSM and ESM – all organisations deliver and consume services to and within each other. This moves imperceptibly on to a fascinating and fundamental discussion on long term sustainability.! We also learn a number of new terms and about Roman’s move to London for Axelos. There’s also a surprise in his choice of drink.

The Kentish-Texan Daniel Breston, who claims to be ‘retiring’ joins and provides some sage insights. We dip into Dan’s 50 years of IT stories and discuss Lean, which Dan has been closely involved with. A key point is the need for all to participate in using and applying things like ‘Lean – including the CIO and board. On drinks Dan dons his tuxedo to sip Casino Royale…

If we can’t define services in IT what chance do other teams have..?

We start off talking about agile and how we might apply that way of working to service management - also how huge the opportunity is (with ESM) and how much bigger this is than IT..

Our guest is the sci-fi geek/rocker Akshay from Axelos who also gives us his entire life story – obviously rivalling Barclay’s long questions. Actually Akshay is a key part of the ITIL 4 team and ITIL product ambassador/evangelist. We explore the key question about how we can use service management principles outside of IT – is ESM actually a thing? Akshay clarifies his commitment to ‘service management’ as a broad concept, with some scepticism around what we are calling Enterprise Service Management. After talking about service management for 30 years its worrying that we still struggle to define ‘service’ as in service management – how can we expect people in other teams to get it..?  There is then a great discussion around the practical definitions of service and products – is service management also about improvement? Ultimately we talk about spades and shovels, nouns or verbs and how language matters! Soon we move on to drinking of course (including a non-alcoholic drink..!) and explore multiple types of cardamon pods.

Margo is the Product owner for ITIL 4, which has been built using product management techniques, as well as being about product and service management.

We discuss eating our own dog food, using blueprints, journey mapping and personas. We also discuss how there is a real ‘marriage’ or convergence between product and service management, in a way that develops a balanced and sustainable approach to work and business life.

This also leads into how we can develop service management beyond IT – and how we get the (ESM) message across. The discussion also keeps returning to people and the need to hold on to talent. As ever we move to discuss drinking – Margo suggests 2 - a first for the podcast..! A brilliant discussion on the future direction for ITSM.

In this episode we learn that Ian has X-ray eyes, but is not an Avenger. We are joined by David Cannon. David is a leading writer and consultant in the service management world. He has a great work goal – to drive the business skills of IT people - much needed! David’s experience includes recent and past authorship in ITIL – recently with the DITs book but also in V3, which he sees as a product of its time, like all best practice.. We also discuss the real meaning of Digital Transformation – not just to convert what we previously did into a digital format. ITSM/ESM also needs context and intelligence – obviously these are rare.. The discussion includes some great examples and insights from David, whilst Ian and Barclay focus on drink as usual….

Can AI help us to be better humans?

Dan is a highly experienced product leader and entrepreneur in the automation and AI area. He brings a huge amount of experience an insight in to how Ai will change how we work – for the better. We discuss how technology can help us to be better people, spend more time with our family etc. Ai is not just about robots taking over our world – AI means ‘artificial’ i.e. not real / not human intelligence, and as leaders we have the opportunity to use this technology to replace work that is dull, dirty or dangerous. The challenge for real success is still around culture and what organisations can expect from tech - and this must be more than just saving costs and removing people. The message needs to be clear and we all need to clarify it… We also discover what a ‘quarantini’ cocktail is..! A really profound discussion on the future of work..!

Sami is CEO of Happy Signals and brings his vast knowledge and understanding of the user experience and employee experience of IT to the podcast. We discover the amazing fact that IT support services are doing really well - better than HR and Finance for service and satisfaction. Also that internal IT does better than external managed services - and that the experience varies noticeably across countries too. Some fascinating discussions around these stats and analysis, from perception not just hard transactional metrics. We also learn about Finnish gin for the podcast bar..!

In which we discover Erika’s past short career as a microbiologist and how she found her way into Service Management, ITIL and consultancy…and now of course as an ITIL 4 author. Her scientific approach really helps in how she works with clients to develop a practical and flexible approach – the value of using hypothesis...! Barclay asks the longest question ever, but Erika still answers all of it – everyone is exhausted and requires a drink. Erika’s suggested drink is the very colourful and appetising Aperol Flip. This is a great high energy discussion which focuses on the value of leadership and the need to change, even when this is challenging, In IT now we are improving people’s lives – ‘I want to change work life’ – Erika Flora.

In which Roy Atkinson of Clifton Butterfield drives his Jaguar safely and clearly through the minefield of customer experience to elucidate on the value of good CX and employee experience. Roy refers to some research he was involved with at HDI and itSMF USA on ESM – initially ESM was driven by IT but more recently now well out of IT and now owned by senior execs. Roy is also a Fellow of the Institute for Digital Transformation - get the CIO operating at a business level..! We discuss the ‘experience economy’, happiness, elements of ITIL (outside of IT) and Roy also describes his favourite whisky tipple…

In which Andie Kis of Devoteam describes one of her recent large ESM projects, how this has evolved and developed from an initial technology project into an organisational-wide transformation programme. Andie highlights the necessity of good self service at the core of the programme and the value of a common platform. Also, there is the need to use simple user-friendly language and terminology, as part of a ‘human-centred’ experience. We also learn Andie’s favourite (gin-related) tipple…

This episode features Knowledge guru Aprill Allen, discussing real life experiences of how we can get real value from knowledge management KCS, and how we are al knowledge workers. There are some brilliant nuggets of wisdom from Aprill in this session – We are all knowledge workers. KCS is important. If it’s ITSM, it’s not strategic enough,  Communities of Practice, Knowledge Workers are Knowledge Creators. Also we learn about Aprill’s Top Drink Tip: Spicy Bloody Mary.

Mark has been driving a full-on organisational-wide ESM programme over the last few years, well beyond the IT department. We learn a number of salient and practical tips on how to make this work and stay mostly sane. We learn Mark’s favourite tipple for the ED Podcast bar and how he can fix your car as well as your PC - and your ESM project.

In which we discuss the value of self service for ESM, despite Barclays’ attempt to hi-jack the conversation. We also discuss the SDI conference and the need to move on from exponential scaremongering.

How should we set and manage expectations? What are OKRs and how can they be used – what are XLAs and OXMs and why are they all better than SLAs? What is all the fuss about Product Management and ITSM/ESM?

The convergence towards a giant ice cream cone – or how we are moving towards some standards ways of doing ‘work’ – using ‘things’ and doing ‘stuff’. What are the common things that people do in business teams that we also do in IT?

What is the difference/overlap between ESM and Digital Transformation? Are we on to something - what are the key definitions and distinctions? Does anyone use ‘ESM’ outside of IT? Does it need a name? what tools and practices can we define? What about the human factor?