The Good Fight

Yascha Mounk and Shalom Auslander discuss the origins of the stories that make us feel bad about ourselves. 

Shalom Auslander is an American novelist, memoirist, and essayist. He is the author of Foreskin's Lament and, most recently, FEH: A Memoir.

In this week's conversation, Yascha Mounk and Shalom Auslander discuss how religious narratives inherited from the Judeo-Christian tradition affect our sense of self-worth; how to actually help oneself while steering clear of "self-help"; and how to begin the lifelong work of charting a path towards unconditional love and self-acceptance.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Matthew Yglesias discuss Kamala Harris' strengths and vulnerabilities, and what she needs to do to win.

Matthew Yglesias is a writer and journalist, co-founder of Vox, and founder of the Substack newsletter Slow Boring. His latest book is One Billion Americans: The Case for Thinking Bigger.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Matthew Yglesias discuss how Kamala Harris can broaden her appeal before November; what explains the lack of substantial coverage of Biden’s cognitive impairments in the mainstream press before the June debate; and how seriously we should take the evolution of economic policy in the Republican Party platform.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Eitan Hersh discuss the importance of strategic political action that focuses on goals and outcomes.

Eitan Hersh is Professor of Political Science at Tufts University, focusing on U.S. elections and civic participation. His latest book is Politics Is for Power: How to Move Beyond Political Hobbyism, Take Action, and Make Real Change.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Eitan Hersh discuss how to engage with politics in ways likely to bring about meaningful change; how political hobbyism tends to coincide with misperceptions about voter habits and the purposes of political rhetoric; and how to more successfully get students to engage with challenging ideas on campus.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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In this emergency podcast, Yascha Mounk and Rachel Kleinfeld discuss how to prevent a spiral of violence.

Rachel Kleinfeld is a senior fellow in the Democracy, Conflict and Governance Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Kleinfeld’s latest book is A Savage Order: How the World's Deadliest Countries Can Forge a Path to Security.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Rachel Kleinfeld discuss why political violence has been on the rise in recent years; which important resilience factors make America resistant to a civil war; and how individuals can contribute, as voters and in their communities, to lowering the probability of political violence

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Elizabeth Anderson discuss why intersectionality and talk about privilege don’t help to build a more equal society.

Elizabeth Anderson, one of the most interesting contemporary political philosophers, is the John Dewey Distinguished University Professor at the University of Michigan. Her latest book is Hijacked: How Neoliberalism Turned the Work Ethic against Workers and How Workers Can Take It Back.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Elizabeth Anderson discuss the impact of unionization and structures of co-determination in achieving greater workplace equality; the need for a nuanced understanding of how belonging to different social categories can affect one’s life prospects; and how structures of domination harm everyone—including those at the top.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Francis Fukuyama discuss the state of democracy around the world.

Francis Fukuyama is a political scientist, author, and the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies at Stanford University. Fukuyama’s notable works include The End of History and the Last Man and The Origins of Political Order. His latest book is Liberalism and Its Discontents.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Francis Fukuyama discuss the triumph of the French far-right in the country’s first round of legislative elections; President Biden’s disastrous debate performance and what it may portend for the 2024 election; and the state of democracy from India to Ukraine.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Yuval Levin discuss why neither Democrats nor Republicans have built a durable post-Cold War coalition—and how American politics could be transformed in 2028.

Yuval Levin is an academic and the director of Social, Cultural, and Constitutional Studies at the American Enterprise Institute. Levin is the author of A Time to Build: From Family and Community to Congress and the Campus, How Recommitting to Our Institutions Can Revive the American Dream and, most recently, American Covenant: How the Constitution Unified Our Nation—and Could Again.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Yuval Levin discuss the different strands of post-Cold War American conservatism from the George W. Bush administration to the Tea Party and the “Reformicon” movements; why both Democrats and Republicans have failed to “make new friends while keeping the old”; and what conservative post-liberals miss about the value of American institutions.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Simon Fanshawe also discuss how gay and lesbian rights were won—and what that should teach today’s activists.

Simon Fanshawe is an activist, writer, and consultant who is a co-founder of Stonewall UK and the rector of the University of Edinburgh. His book is The Power of Difference: Where the Complexities of Diversity and Inclusion Meet Practical Solutions.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Simon Fanshawe discuss whether there is a tension between hiring for merit and hiring for the value of having different kinds of life experiences present in organizations; how the gay rights movement framed the debate around legal equality and toleration rather than asking the public to affirm gay and lesbian identities; and why building alliances and finding common ground are essential for achieving social change and creating a more inclusive society.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Olivier Roy discuss the rise of the French right.

Olivier Roy is a French political scientist and professor at the European University Institute in Florence, Italy. His latest book is The Crisis of Culture: Identity Politics and the Empire of Norms.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Olivier Roy discuss how the new European far-right differs from the old; the French concept of laïcité, or secularism, and whether it goes too far in curtailing public religious practices; and whether a new appeal to universal values and compromise is possible in societies fragmented by identity politics.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Brad Wilcox discuss how marriage contributes to better outcomes for both children and adults.

Brad Wilcox is Professor of Sociology and Director of the National Marriage Project at the University of Virginia and a nonresident senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Wilcox is the author of Get Married.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Brad Wilcox discuss whether more people getting married really would improve their lives; why we might need a political and cultural environment more conducive to marriage; and what explains the “happiness gap” between liberals and conservatives in the US.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and William Galston discuss why neither the Democrats or Republicans have been able to build a durable governing majority.

William Galston is an author and academic who holds the Ezra K. Zilker Chair in Governance Studies at the Brookings Institution. Galston was also deputy assistant for domestic policy to President Bill Clinton. His latest book is Anti-Pluralism: The Populist Threat to Liberal Democracy.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and William Galston discuss why cultural questions have become as important as economic issues in deciding elections; why the period following the 2024 election will afford political opportunities to ideological upstarts in both parties; and the outsized influence of “dark passions" like humiliation and resentment in voting behavior.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Daryl Davis discuss his lifetime of convincing Ku Klux Klan members to renounce racism.

Daryl Davis is an American R&B and blues musician, author and social activist. Davis estimates he has been the direct or indirect cause for over 200 conversions from the Klan. He is also co-founder of the Prohuman Foundation.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Daryl Davis discuss how a childhood experience with racism inspired him to interview and befriend members of the Ku Klux Klan; the importance of remaining “pro-human” even in the face of hatred and bigotry; and whether his faith in humanity feels out of tune with the current political moment.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Nellie Bowles discuss her career at The New York Times and reporting on the ground from urban “autonomous zones” in 2020.

Nellie Bowles is a writer and reporter and the head of strategy at The Free Press, where she writes the TGIF column. Her book is Morning After the Revolution: Dispatches from the Wrong Side of History.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Nellie Bowles discuss how she came to chafe against the institutional culture of The New York Times and why she left; how new power hierarchies arose within media and institutions where small groups came to wield outsized power; and how the transformative ideas about power and society that became dominant in 2020 continue to hold great influence.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Helen Joyce discuss the evidence base for the use of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones in young people.

Helen Joyce is an Irish journalist and the Director of Advocacy at Sex Matters. She is the author of Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Helen Joyce discuss the findings of an independent review by Hilary Cass of gender identity services for children and young people in the United Kingdom; how government and public health institutions in the UK have come to take a more skeptical view of gender-affirming care for young people than in the US; and the need for a more thoughtful and nuanced approach to trans issues which considers the rights and safety of all individuals involved.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Eboo Patel discuss how interfaith work can serve as a model for engaging productively across differences.

Eboo Patel is the founder of Interfaith America and the author of We Need to Build: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy. Patel also served as an advisor on faith to President Barack Obama.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Eboo Patel discuss how the dominant diversity paradigm in many institutions divides individuals into oppressors and oppressed; how universities can draw from the intellectual tradition of pluralism to encourage mutual respect and cooperation; and how university leaders can alleviate the deeply polarized atmosphere that prevails at many institutions around the country.

This conversation is part of a new Persuasion series on the Future of Universities. Universities are in crisis—losing public support, shaken by internal divisions, facing angry donors and alumni, and increasingly straying from their core mission of intellectual curiosity and open inquiry. Persuasion's new series about the future of universities, made possible by the generous support of the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, will consist of a collection of longform essays and podcast interviews aimed at helping higher education tackle this crisis. 

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Mike Pesca discuss what real balance ought to look like in reporting hotly contested issues.

Mike Pesca is a journalist and the host of "The Gist", the longest running daily news podcast in history. He spent a decade as a correspondent for NPR, guest hosting “All Things Considered” and “Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me.”

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Mike Pesca discuss why many news organizations have discarded objectivity in favor of “moral clarity” in recent years; the recent internal upheaval at NPR and the limits to giving every side equal coverage; and whether journalists, academics and other experts ought to consider themselves “defenders of democracy.”

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Kwame Anthony Appiah discuss cultivating thick identities (and thick skins).

Kwame Anthony Appiah is a British-Ghanaian philosopher, Professor of Philosophy and Law and New York University, and the “Ethicist” columnist for The New York Times Magazine.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Kwame Anthony Appiah discuss why universities discarded an ethic of common humanity for a new form of identitarianism; how we can recognize and respect individual and cultural diversity without making it the main factor in our interactions; and why faculty must be agents for the change they wish to see in universities.

This conversation is part of the Persuasion series “Universities, Diversity, and Democracy,” a new collection of podcasts and essays, featuring leading voices in higher education, that explores how universities can pursue truth in the spirit of philosophical liberalism and in pursuit of social progress. This series is made possible by the generous support of the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Vinay Prasad assess the strengths and weaknesses of America’s public health response.

Vinay Prasad MD, MPH is a hematologist-oncologist and Professor in the Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at the University of California San Francisco.  

In this week’s episode, Yascha Mounk and Vinay Prasad discuss the impact and efficacy of mask mandates and lockdowns; how the stifling of dissenting views among doctors and scientists harmed decision-making; and how we can improve our readiness for the next pandemic.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Alexandra Hudson discuss how civility can be a tool for pursuing justice.

Alexandra Hudson is a writer, an adjunct professor at the Indiana University Lilly School of Philanthropy, and the founder of the publication Civic Renaissance. Hudson’s first book is The Soul of Civility: Timeless Principles to Heal Society and Ourselves.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Alexandra Hudson discuss how civility is different from mere politeness; why true civility can require engaging in uncomfortable conversations and delivering hard truths; and why certain social norms and expectations have proven timeless.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Jonathan Haidt discuss the end of the play-based childhood and the rise of the phone-based childhood.

Jonathan Haidt is a social psychologist and the Thomas Cooley Professor of Ethical Leadership at NYU's Stern School of Business. He is also a member of Persuasion's Board of Advisors. Haidt is the author of The Righteous Mind and, with Greg Lukianoff, co-author of The Coddling of the American Mind. His new book is The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Jonathan Haidt discuss the significant rise in mental illness among teenagers, particularly young girls; why social media has a negative impact on childhood development; and how we can mitigate the damage by cultivating phone-free norms and more childhood independence.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Jonathan Lynn discuss why the dysfunctional relationship between politicians and civil servants made for great TV, and what that tells us about the nature of politics.

Jonathan Lynn is an English writer, director and producer. Lynn is best known as the co-creator of the series "Yes, Minister" and its sequel, "Yes, Prime Minister." He also directed the films "My Cousin Vinny" and "The Whole Nine Yards."

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Jonathan Lynn discuss how his television comedy about the inner workings of British government became Margaret Thatcher’s favorite show; how political satire has evolved over the decades; and the value of producing art with collaborators who hold different political views.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Coleman Hughes discuss the difference between race blindness and racism blindness.

Coleman Hughes is a writer and the host of Conversations with Coleman. His new book is The End of Race Politics: Arguments for a Colorblind America.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Coleman Hughes discuss why race is a poor proxy for setting public policy; why being colorblind doesn’t mean disregarding one’s own cultural affinities; and how we can continue to make progress against racial discrimination without making the concept of race ever more central to our culture and politics.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Ed Luce discuss the sense of impending disaster in American politics.

Ed Luce is the US national editor and columnist at the Financial Times. He is also a member of the Persuasion board of advisors.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Ed Luce discuss what worries Americans most about the state of the country heading into the next election; the presumptive re-match between Biden and Trump; and why a second Trump term could be more dangerous than the first.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Alex Byrne discuss how to understand the differences between sex and gender—and why it matters.

Alex Byrne is a philosopher and a professor at MIT in the Department of Linguistics and Philosophy. He is the author, most recently, of Trouble With Gender: Sex Facts, Gender Fictions.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Alex Byrne discuss the evolution of the concept of gender and whether it’s useful for understanding social reality; why pediatric gender medicine struggles with questions about how to properly care for young patients; and how we can move towards a society in which transgender people can live with greater dignity.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Larry Summers also discuss the promise and perils of artificial intelligence.

Larry Summers is an economist, the Charles W. Eliot University Professor and director of the Mossavar-Rahmani Center for Business and Government at Harvard Kennedy School, and a member of the board of directors of OpenAI. Summers is the former President of Harvard University, the former Secretary of the Treasury under Bill Clinton, and was a director of the National Economic Council under Barack Obama. 

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Larry Summers discuss how universities can re-commit to pursuing truth and protecting academic freedom; how current economic indicators contrast with how many people actually experience the economy; and how Biden can improve his odds for re-election.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Francisco Toro discuss the surprise election of Bernardo Arévalo and the broader state of Latin American politics.

Francisco Toro is a Venezuelan journalist and the founder of Caracas Chronicles. He is also a contributing editor at Persuasion and the author of the Substack newsletter The Two Worlds of Climate.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Francisco Toro discuss the chances Guatemala's reformist president will set the country on a better path; whether El Salvador’s “millennial dictator” Nayib Bukele is a regional outlier or a sign of things to come; and why former Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro’s coup attempt failed.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Ricardo Hausmann discuss development economics and how globalization has changed the nature of knowledge.

Ricardo Hausmann is an economist and the founder and Director of Harvard’s Growth Lab and the Rafik Hariri Professor of the Practice of International Political Economy at Harvard Kennedy School. Hausmann has also served as Minister of Planning of Venezuela (1992-1993) and on the Board of the Central Bank of Venezuela.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Ricardo Hausmann discuss the effect of globalization on social stratification; how “brain drains” and immigration can have counterintuitive effects on growth; and why we may often overrate the economic effects of corruption.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Martha Nussbaum discuss how to reflect on a life lived well.

Martha Nussbaum is a philosopher and the Ernst Freund Distinguished Service Professor of Law and Ethics at the University of Chicago. Nussbaum is the author of many books, including, most recently, Justice for Animals: Our Collective Responsibility.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Martha Nussbaum discuss the need for an overlapping consensus between citizens of profoundly different beliefs; how regarding animals as sentient beings might change our behavior towards them; and why one ought to be a “happy warrior” for moral causes.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Ruy Teixeira discuss what Biden would need to do to rebuild a broad coalition for the 2024 election.

Ruy Teixeira is a political scientist, the co-founder and politics editor of The Liberal Patriot, and the author, with John Judis, of The Emerging Democratic Majority and, most recently, Where Have All the Democrats Gone?: The Soul of the Party in the Age of Extremes. 

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Ruy Teixeira discuss how Democrats lost the working class and what it might take to win it back; how Teixeira's theory that demographic change would favor the Democratic Party has been misinterpreted; and why Democrats, despite Trump’s unpopularity, have failed to open up a decisive lead in the polls.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Albert Wu discuss how historical divisions explain the outcome of the island’s recent elections.

Albert Wu is a Taiwanese historian and the author, with his wife Michelle Kuo, of the Substack newsletter A Broad and Ample Road.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Albert Wu discuss the electoral victory of the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) and what it portends for cross-strait relations; how the Kuomintang went from fighting the CCP in a bloody civil war to advocating closer ties with Beijing; and what Taiwan's history can teach us about different views on its future.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Rob Henderson discuss his journey from poverty to the Ivy League—and how it has shaped his view of America.

Rob Henderson is a writer and author of Rob Henderson’s Newsletter. His forthcoming book, Troubled: A Memoir of Foster Care, Family, and Social Class, will be released next month.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Rob Henderson discuss the importance of a stable family for children; the concept of “luxury beliefs”; and why some things are more important than social mobility.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Tyler Austin Harper discuss the state of academia and the resignation of Harvard President Claudine Gay.

Tyler Austin Harper is a writer and an assistant professor of environmental studies at Bates College.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Tyler Austin Harper discuss how universities can reclaim their status as sites for the free exchange of ideas; why enrollment in the humanities has declined; and the ways in which the new progressive ideas concerning identity remain influential on campus and in our society.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Branko Milanovic discuss the history and trajectory of global inequality.

Branko Milanovic is an economist and a professor in the Graduate Center at The City University of New York. Formerly a lead economist at the World Bank, he is the author, most recently, of Visions of Inequality: From the French Revolution to the End of the Cold War.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Branko Milanovic discuss Milanovic’s famous “Elephant Curve” graph and why global income growth is not as unequally distributed as he once thought; how we should think about globalization and its effects on the global balance of power; and why Milanovic does not consider himself a philosophical liberal.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Mary Harrington debate whether or not societies have made significant progress towards gender equality.

Mary Harrington is a writer and a contributing editor at UnHerd. She is the author of Feminism Against Progress. 

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Mary Harrington discuss second-wave feminism and the downstream consequences of the sexual revolution; the unintended effects of industrialization and contraceptive use; and whether the contraceptive revolution has, as Harrington argues, brought about a greater commodification of female sexuality.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Philip Pettit discuss small-r “republicanism” and how to make sure people don’t suffer from domination.

Philip Pettit is the L.S. Rockefeller University Professor of Politics and Human Values at Princeton University. His latest book is The State.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Philip Pettit discuss the intellectual traditions of liberalism and republicanism; how freedom from domination differs from freedom from interference; and what role the state plays in making people free.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Tara Isabella Burton discuss the shift in modern societies away from external truths to a new gospel of finding one’s authentic self.

Tara Isabella Burton is a writer and novelist. She is the author of Strange Rites: New Religions for a Godless World. Her latest book is Self Made: Creating Our Identities from Da Vinci to the Kardashians.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Tara Isabella Burton discuss the trend towards religious non-affiliation and the rise of à la carte spirituality; the challenges such a world presents for creating community and political solidarity; and whether we can pursue self-creation while also fulfilling our deepest obligations as citizens of a liberal society.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.

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Yascha Mounk and Tim Urban discuss making better choices, managing human foibles, and distilling big ideas into clear words.

Tim Urban is a writer and author of the blog Wait But Why. He is the author of What's Our Problem?: A Self-Help Book for Societies. 

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Tim Urban discuss how to develop strong productive habits; the human tendency towards “chronocentrism”; as well as how American society has become troubled and why finding real solutions will require courage.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Bethany Allen discuss the historical trajectory of the modern Chinese economy.

Bethany Allen is the China reporter at Axios and the author of Beijing Rules: How China Weaponized Its Economy to Confront the World.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Bethany Allen discuss how China’s unique “party-state capitalism” can act both as a boon to and a drag on its economic growth; how China uses its economic power to enforce conformity and limit free speech around the globe; and what the future might hold for Taiwan.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.

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Yascha Mounk and Robert Sapolsky debate whether there is free will and if it would matter if there weren't.

Robert Sapolsky, a neuroscientist and primatologist, is the John A. and Cynthia Fry Gunn Professor and professor of biology, neurology and neurosurgery at Stanford University. Sapolsky is the author of Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst. His latest book is Determined: A Science of Life without Free Will.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Robert Sapolsky discuss whether, as Sapolsky argues, there is no such thing as free will; and what follows for everything from criminal law to the possibility of love and friendship if we were to agree that it doesn't.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk and Anshel Pfeffer discuss how the war is transforming Israel, Palestine and the Middle East.

Anshel Pfeffer is a British-Israeli journalist. He is a senior correspondent and columnist for Haaretz and the Israel correspondent for The Economist. Pfeffer is the author of Bibi: The Turbulent Life and Times of Benjamin Netanyahu.

In this week's conversation, Yascha Mounk and Anshel Pfeffer discuss Israel's strategy for defeating Hamas and whether it is likely to succeed; why the global left has failed to grasp the horrors of 10/7; what implications the war has for Jewish life in Europe and America; and why, after the war, Israel urgently needs to resolve the internal tensions that have marked the country since its founding.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.

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Yascha Mounk and David Brooks discuss the role of character development in building strong liberal societies.

David Brooks is a writer and a columnist at the New York Times. He is the author of Bobos in Paradise: The New Upper Class and How They Got There and The Social Animal: The Hidden Sources of Love, Character, and Achievement. His latest book is How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and David Brooks discuss how he came to coin the term “bourgeois bohemians” (or “bobos”); whether today’s elite shares any traits with the bobo elite that first succeeded the WASPs; and how we can inspire stronger and deeper social connections between individuals of all backgrounds.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.

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Jonathan Rauch is a senior fellow in the Governance Studies program at the Brookings Institution, a member of the Persuasion Board of Advisors, and the author of books including The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth and The Happiness Curve: Why Life Gets Better After 50.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Jonathan Rauch discuss how our sense of satisfaction with life is age-related in ways that are often independent of our objective circumstances; the academic research showing that happiness across one’s lifetime often resembles a U-shaped curve; and how we can better align societal practices to facilitate this midlife transition (and better utilize the assets of old age).

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Amichai Magen is the director of the Program on Democratic Resilience & Development at Reichman University's Lauder School of Government, Diplomacy, and Strategy. He is a Visiting Professor and Fellow in Israel Studies at the Freeman-Spogli Institute for International Studies at Stanford University.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Amichai Magen discuss the Hamas incursion into Israel that is responsible for the greatest massacre of Jews since World War II; the prospects for Benjamin Netanyahu’s government in the aftermath of the greatest security failure in Israel’s history; and the evolving crisis following the start of Israel’s military response against Gaza.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Angus Deaton is the Dwight D. Eisenhower Professor of Economics and International Affairs at Princeton, Emeritus, and the recipient of the 2015 Nobel Prize in Economics. He is the author of The Great Escape: Health, Wealth, and the Origins of Inequality and, with Anne Case, of Deaths of Despair and the Future of Capitalism. His most recent book is Economics in America: An Immigrant Economist Explores the Land of Inequality. 

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Angus Deaton discuss why he thinks the core predictor of economic and social outcomes in America is not primarily race or class, but one’s attainment of a four-year college degree; why America (and Scotland) are unique among wealthy, industrial nations for their increasing mortality rates; and how to best explain the growing sense of social dislocation that contributes to so-called “deaths of despair.”

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Yascha Mounk is the founder of Persuasion. His new book, The Identity Trap: A Story of Ideas and Power in Our Time, was published this week.

In this week’s conversation, Coleman Hughes and Yascha Mounk discuss the intellectual origins of the "identity synthesis"; how this novel ideology was able to become so influential so quickly; why its application to areas from free speech to cultural appropriation is a trap; and how to make a compelling case for the liberal ideals that are more likely to remedy injustices.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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David Axelrod is the former chief strategist and senior advisor to President Barack Obama. He currently serves as a Distinguished Fellow at the University of Chicago. He is author of the memoir, Believer: My Forty Years in Politics.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and David Axelrod discuss how Obama was able to build a winning coalition in 2008 that included many moderate voters; whether, despite the polarized state of American politics, a future presidential candidate could replicate that success; and what it would take for Joe Biden to defeat Donald Trump in 2024.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.

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Rory Stewart is an author, a diplomat and a politician. A former Secretary of State for International Development in the United Kingdom, Stewart is now the president of the global poverty-alleviation charity GiveDirectly. He is also the author of The Places In Between and, most recently, How Not To Be a Politician: A Memoir.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Rory Stewart discuss the difference between the skills required to win political office and those required to govern well; whether the old conservative tradition, discarded lately in America and the UK, has something left to offer; and why, despite limited progress, we must remain vigilant in the fight against global poverty.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.

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Steven Levitsky is the David Rockefeller professor of Latin American Studies and Professor of Government at Harvard University, and Daniel Ziblatt is the Eaton Professor of the Science of Government at Harvard University. They are the authors, jointly, of How Democracies Die. Their latest book is Tyranny of the Minority: Why American Democracy Reached the Breaking Point.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk, Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt discuss the extent to which American institutions distort our politics by excessively thwarting majority governance; whether or not the American electorate is polarizing, or depolarizing, by race; and whether American democracy is better served by pursuing institutional reform or by tailoring Democratic Party strategy to the system as it exists.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.

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Greg Lukianoff is president of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE) and the co-author, with Jonathan Haidt, of The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure. Lukianoff is also co-author of the forthcoming The Canceling of the American Mind: Cancel Culture Undermines Trust and Threatens Us All—But There Is a Solution.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Greg Lukianoff discuss the state of free speech culture on America’s campuses and in society more broadly; FIRE’s progress litigating against coercive legislation in Florida and elsewhere; and the need to foster cultural habits that uphold individual expression.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Sohrab Ahmari is a writer, commentator, and the founding editor of Compact. He is the author of Tyranny, Inc.: How Private Power Crushed American Liberty–and What to Do About It.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Sohrab Ahmari discuss the threat corporate power poses to individual freedom in the United States; whether liberalism has gone too far in prioritizing individual autonomy over the common good; and why they disagree about whether attempting to move beyond liberalism would make things better or worse.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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John Carey is Professor of Government at Dartmouth College and is a co-founder of Bright Line Watch, a research group which monitors threats to American democracy.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and John Carey discuss whether recent publications casting doubt on the extent of democratic erosion have any merit; why many Americans believe the charges against former President Trump to be politically motivated; and why, no matter the outcome, indicting a former president may trigger a cycle of retaliatory prosecutions.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Susan Neiman is an American philosopher and writer. She is the Director of the Einstein Forum in Potsdam, Germany, and the author of Left is Not Woke.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Susan Neiman discuss how liberals can uphold their universal values while maintaining a politics of empathy and compassion; how the left’s tendency to discount the progress of the past inhibits progress for the future; and whether Germany can serve as a model for how America, and other nations, should deal with the dark aspects of their own history.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Colin Woodard is an American journalist. He is the author of American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Colin Woodard discuss the ideals of America’s settlers and why they remain influential many years later; how the tension between individual freedom and concern for the public good has shaped America’s regional divides; and whether a shared national narrative can help to unify our divided groups.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Peter Arcidiacono is an economist at Duke University and an expert on affirmative action. Arcidiacono served as an expert witness for Students for Fair Admissions, Inc. (SFFA) in SFFA v. Harvard.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Peter Arcidiacono discuss the role that racial preferences have played in the admissions processes of elite American universities in recent decades; the workarounds that universities are likely to use in the wake of the recent Supreme Court decision; and why real progress for less privileged students will require fundamental changes that look beyond the admissions practices of a few elite universities.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Michael Walzer is an eminent political philosopher and the author of numerous books, including Just and Unjust Wars and Spheres of Justice. He is professor emeritus at the Institute of Advanced Study, has taught at Harvard University, and is editor emeritus of the magazine Dissent.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Michael Walzer discuss why, though he is a democratic socialist, he believes that there are certain acceptable forms of inequality; what forms of injustice true egalitarians should focus on fighting; and the threats to liberalism from the post-liberal right and the illiberal left.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Tim Mak is a writer, reporter, and founder of the online publication The Counteroffensive. He was formerly the Washington Investigative Correspondent for National Public Radio.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Tim Mak discuss the slow progress of Ukraine’s counteroffensive and how a big breakthrough might come about; how the collective experience of resisting Russian aggression has contributed to a shared sense of Ukrainian national identity; and what the future may hold for a post-war Ukraine.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Michael Lind is a writer and professor of the practice at the Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin. He is the co-founder of the think tank New America and the author of The New Class War: Saving Democracy From the Managerial Elite and, most recently, Hell to Pay: How the Suppression of Wages is Destroying America. 

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Michael Lind discuss whether one’s stances towards free trade, taxation, and workers’ rights are still a reliable predictor of voters’ broader political identity; why Lind, though he supports many economically progressive policies, is often classed as a conservative; and whether efforts to rebuild labor power and reinvigorate national industrial policy will succeed in improving the economy for ordinary people.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Amna Khalid and Jeff Snyder are writers and professors of history at Carleton College.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk, Amna Khalid and Jeff Snyder discuss the predominance of certain progressive orthodoxies on college campuses; why opponents of left wing censoriousness should also resist illiberalism in education from the right; and how we can stand up for philosophically liberal, humanistic values without becoming bitter, reactionary, or uncivil.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Tomiwa Owolade is a writer and author of the forthcoming book This is Not America: Why Black Lives in Britain Matter.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Tomiwa Owolade discuss how some popular forms of anti-racist thinking can obscure which groups are struggling most; how Labour MP Diane Abbott’s response to an article of Owolade’s in The Guardian led to the Labour MP’s formal censure by her party; and what Americans can learn from Britain on issues of race (and Britons from America).

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Nora Fisher Onar is an associate professor of international studies at the University of San Francisco and author of the forthcoming book Contesting Pluralism(s): Islam, Liberalism and Nationalism in Turkey.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Nora Fisher Onar discuss how President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan prevailed despite economic turmoil and a bungled response to the severe February earthquake; what international observers may overlook or misunderstand about Erdoğan’s appeal to Turkish voters; and what Erdoğan’s victory means for the country’s strained democracy, institutions, and economy.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Jason Furman is a professor of economics in the Economics Department at Harvard and at the Harvard Kennedy School. He also served as the chair of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Barack Obama. 

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Jason Furman discuss the causes of today’s persistent inflation in the US and whether it is likely to continue; how concerned we should be about the recent failures of mid-sized regional banks; and why America’s share of world GDP has remained resilient over the past decades even though it sometimes feels dysfunctional relative to other developed economies like Germany and Japan.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Gary Marcus is an expert in artificial intelligence, a cognitive scientist and host of the podcast “Humans vs Machines with Gary Marcus.”

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Gary Marcus discuss the shortcomings of the dominant large language model (LLM) mode of artificial intelligence; why he feels that the AI industry is on the wrong path to developing superintelligent AI; and why he nonetheless believes that the eventual emergence of superior AI may pose a serious threat to humanity.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Ami Ayalon is the former head of the Shin Bet, Israel’s internal intelligence agency, and former commander of the Israeli navy. After his retirement from the Shin Bet, Ayalon served as a member of the Knesset and co-founded the grassroots peace initiative The People’s Voice with Palestinian philosopher Sari Nusseibeh. He is the author, with Anthony David, of Friendly Fire: How Israel Became Its Own Worst Enemy and the Hope for Its Future.

On the 75th anniversary of Israel’s founding, Yascha Mounk and Ami Ayalon discuss the roots of today’s democratic crisis in the country; lessons from Ayalon’s lifelong career in Israel’s defense and intelligence communities; and why Palestinian hope is an Israeli security asset.

Editor’s Note: This conversation was recorded in April, before the most recent round of violence in Israel and the Gaza Strip.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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William Deresiewicz is an American author, essayist, and critic. He taught English at Yale University from 1998 to 2008. He is the author, among other books, of Excellent Sheep: The Miseducation of the American Elite and the Way to a Meaningful Life.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and William Deresiewicz discuss how the intensely meritocratic nature of elite universities prioritizes striving over deep learning; the instrumentalization of traditional pursuits to the detriment of mastery; and how broader cultural transformations frustrate deep immersion in art, friendship, and learning.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Ed Luce is the US national editor and columnist at the Financial Times. He is also a member of the Persuasion board of advisors.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Ed Luce discuss the prospects for Trump (and Trumpism) in the near future; why America no longer feels like a “can-do” nation; and whether America can defend its values in the world while avoiding escalation with China.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Timothy Garton Ash, a distinguished historian, is Professor of European Studies at Oxford University. His latest book is Homelands: A Personal History of Europe.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Timothy Garton Ash discuss the hopes and delusions of the “post-Wall” era; a critical analysis of two of Europe’s most influential politicians, Emmanuel Macron and Angela Merkel; and what a Europe guided by “European values” would look like.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Ben Ansell is Professor of Comparative Democratic Institutions at the University of Oxford and a Fellow of the British Academy. He is the author of Why Politics Fails. 

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Ben Ansell discuss the collective goods that we all desire (democracy, equality, solidarity, security and prosperity) and why political systems struggle to bring them about; the implicit trade-offs in democratic systems; and the institutions we need to create more just and prosperous societies.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Murtaza Hussain is a reporter at The Intercept covering national security and foreign policy. 

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Murtaza Hussain discuss why most Americans, whether they know it or not, are philosophical liberals; why the political cleavages that exist among white Americans are likely to replicate themselves among the country’s immigrant and minority communities; and why, counter to their long tradition of irreverence, American liberals are no longer funny.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Matthew Goodwin is Professor of Politics at the University of Kent. He is the author, most recently, of Values, Voice and Virtue: The New British Politics. 

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Matthew Goodwin discuss the left’s transition from a focus on the working class to college-educated professionals; how leaders like Tony Blair and Bill Clinton were able to broaden their electoral tents in the 1990s; and why the “cultural dimension” of politics isn’t going away.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Martin Wolf is the chief economics commentator for the Financial Times. He is the author of The Crisis of Democratic Capitalism.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Martin Wolf discuss the symbiotic relationship between democracy and capitalism; the reasons for the crisis of democratic capitalism; and the dire consequences should it fail.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Jonathan Greenblatt is the national director of the Anti-Defamation League. Greenblatt previously served in the Obama White House as Special Assistant and Director of the Office of Social Innovation and Civic Participation. He is the author of It Could Happen Here: Why America Is Tipping from Hate to the Unthinkable-And How We Can Stop It.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Jonathan Greenblatt discuss the rising threat of antisemitism in the United States; the link between strong liberal democratic institutions and the safety of minority populations; as well as how to draw the line between antisemitism and legitimate criticisms of the Israeli government.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Frans de Waal is a Dutch-American primatologist and the Charles Howard Candler Professor of Primate Behavior in the Department of Psychology at Emory University. He is the author of, among other books, Chimpanzee Politics: Power and Sex Among Apes and Different: Gender Through the Eyes of a Primatologist.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Frans de Waal discuss how primate empathy forms the basis for human morality; the precedent for diversity in human gender and gender roles that exists in non-human primates; and why, despite attempts to separate human behavior from human biology, you can’t have one without the other.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Matthias Matthijs is Associate Professor of International Political Economy at Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies and Senior Fellow for Europe at the Council on Foreign Relations.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Matthias Matthijs discuss Germany’s Zeitenwende and why the country has found greater success than its European peers in countering right-wing populism; the spoiler potential of the European right-wing from Giorgia Meloni to Viktor Orbán; and why, despite the long road ahead, Matthijs remains optimistic about the European project.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Vincent Lloyd is a Professor and Director of Africana Studies at Villanova University. His latest book is Black Dignity: The Struggle against Domination.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Vincent Lloyd discuss how his summer school seminar on black history was derailed by the language of “harm”; how well-intentioned efforts at contemplating past and present injustice can devolve into dogma and bullying; and how we might more effectively work to bring about racial justice.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Rachel Kleinfeld is a senior fellow in the Democracy, Conflict and Governance Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Kleinfeld’s latest book is A Savage Order: How the World's Deadliest Countries Can Forge a Path to Security.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Rachel Kleinfeld discuss effective strategies for heading off extremism and shoring up American democracy; what it takes to contain political violence; and why, though she remains concerned about America’s deep polarization, she mistrusts predictions of “civil war”.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Congressman Ro Khanna is an American politician, lawyer, and academic. He is currently serving as U.S. Representative for California's 17th district, including much of Silicon Valley.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Ro Khanna discuss how we can protect free speech and civic agency in the age of the internet; what it would mean to have a cultural patriotism that celebrates both the tradition and the dynamism of American life; and where he stands on the debates concerning misinformation and censorship.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.

If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.

Email: [email protected] 

Website: http://www.persuasion.community

Podcast production by John Taylor Williams, and Brendan Ruberry

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Richard Haass is a veteran American diplomat, statesman, and author. He is president of the Council on Foreign Relations, and served as Special Assistant to President George H. W. Bush and as Director of Policy Planning at the State Department in the administration of President George W. Bush. His most recent book is The Bill of Obligations: The Ten Habits of Good Citizens.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Richard Haass discuss the structural challenges, missed opportunities, and poor choices of the last thirty years; the arc of American foreign policy from Vietnam to Iraq; and how civic-minded Americans can effect positive change at a moment of crisis.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.

If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.

Email: [email protected] 

Website: http://www.persuasion.community

Podcast production by John Taylor Williams, and Brendan Ruberry

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Matt Bennett is co-founder of the center-left think tank Third Way. Bennett served in the administration of President Bill Clinton and is a veteran of Democratic politics, having acted as an advisor to the presidential campaigns of Clinton, Al Gore, and Wesley Clark.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Matt Bennett discuss why it’s hard for moderate candidates to outcompete extremists for national audiences; the false dichotomy of base mobilization versus courting swing voters (and why you need both); and why Joe Biden remains the strongest Democratic candidate for President heading into 2024.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.

If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.

Email: [email protected] 

Website: http://www.persuasion.community

Podcast production by John Taylor Williams, and Brendan Ruberry

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Charles Kenny is a writer-researcher and a senior fellow at the Center for Global Development. Previously, he spent fifteen years as an economist at the World Bank. His books include The Plague Cycle: The Unending War Between Humanity and Infectious Disease and The Upside of Down: Why the Rise of the Rest is Good for the West.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Charles Kenny discuss why development aid is more effective than its critics claim; why it is easier to solve "stuff" problems than it is to solve "non-stuff" problems; and why effective altruists need to start thinking bigger.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.

If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.

Email: [email protected] 

Website: http://www.persuasion.community

Podcast production by John Taylor Williams, and Brendan Ruberry

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Bart Somers is a Belgian politician who has served as the mayor of Mechelen and is a minister in the Flemish government. He was awarded the 2016 World Mayor Prize in recognition of Mechelen’s success in integrating recent immigrants.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Bart Somers discuss how prioritizing public safety helped Mechelen head off populist extremism, how to build civic structures that create social trust between people of different backgrounds, and how the city was able to cultivate a sense of local identity that is embraced by both recent migrants and longtime residents.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.

If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.

Email: [email protected] 

Website: http://www.persuasion.community

Podcast production by John Taylor Williams, and Brendan Ruberry

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Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion

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Tabata Amaral is a Brazilian politician currently serving as a federal deputy for the center-left Brazilian Socialist Party (PSB), representing the state of São Paulo.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Tabata Amaral discuss her journey from a childhood of poverty to her admission to Harvard and her election as one of the youngest congresspeople in Brazil; how Lula’s ideologically diverse coalition was able to oust President Jair Bolsonaro; why Bolsonaro continues to enjoy broad support; and how Brazil can unlock its future by fighting corruption and improving basic education.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.

If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.

Email: [email protected] 

Website: http://www.persuasion.community

Podcast production by John Taylor Williams, and Brendan Ruberry

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Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion

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Shadi Hamid is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a contributing writer at The Atlantic. His latest book is The Problem of Democracy: America, the Middle East, and the Rise and Fall of an Idea.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Shadi Hamid discuss what happens when liberalism and democracy clash; whether countries with freely elected but highly illiberal governments can remain democratic; and why every consistent democrat has to embrace at least a minimal form of liberalism.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.

If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.

Email: [email protected] 

Website: http://www.persuasion.community

Podcast production by John Taylor Williams, and Brendan Ruberry

Connect with us!

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Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion

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Roya Hakakian is an Iranian American dissident, poet, and writer. Her latest book is A Beginner's Guide to America: For the Immigrant and the Curious.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Roya Hakakian discuss what makes this year's revolt different from previous protest movements; the meaning of the popular protest slogan “Woman, Life, Liberty;” and what ordinary people and their governments can do to support the people of Iran.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.

If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.

Email: [email protected] 

Website: http://www.persuasion.community

Podcast production by John Taylor Williams, and Brendan Ruberry

Connect with us!

Spotify | Apple | Google

Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion

Youtube: Yascha Mounk

LinkedIn: Persuasion Community

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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