In this episode,  we speak with Dr. Ruth Van Reken who is the co-authour of Third Culture Kids: Growing Up Among Worlds, 3rd ed., and author of Letters Never Sent. 

We explore Third Culture Kids (TCKs)—which refers to people raised in cultures different from their parents’ and who spent formative years in diverse environments. We delve into the psychological, social, and relational impacts, addressing identity, belonging, challenges, and the incredible advantages of a cross-cultural upbringing. These benefits encompass a broader worldview, enhanced cross-cultural intelligence, and heightened adaptation skills.


About Ruth: 

Ruth Van Reken is a second-generation Third Culture Kid* (TCK) and mother of three now-adult TCKs. She is co-author of Third Culture Kids: Growing Up Among Worlds, 3rd ed., and author of Letters Never Sent, her personal journaling seeking to understand the long-term impact of her cross-cultural childhood. For more than thirty years Ruth has traveled extensively speaking about issues related to the impact of global mobility on individuals, families, and societies. She is co-founder and past chairperson of Families in Global Transition.  In addition to her two books and many articles, she has written a chapter in other books including Strangers at Home, Unrooted Childhoods, and Writing Out of Limbo.  In 2019 she received an Hon. Litt.D from Wheaton College for her life's work. S


Websites:
crossculturalkid.org  (Personal Website)
crossculturalkid.org/blog/  (Blog)

In this episode we talk with Hendrix Hammond about identity, the use of self, positioning and emotions in the therapeutic and organisational contexts. We expand on his AFT 2022 keynote speech where Hendrix shares his own journey and how this has informed him and is present in his values and ways of working in practice. 

Hendrix Hammond bio:

Hendrix is a Consultant Couple & Family Psychotherapist and Lead Family Therapist for a London Local Authority. He is a qualified AFT (Association of Family therapy) Supervisor and is UKCP accredited and a BAATN member (Black, African & Asian Therapy Network)

In this episode we talk with Flavio Cannistra, Jeff Young and Katy Stephenson all about Single Session Therapy (SST). They share their professional experience and lived examples of the approach in action. We are introduced to the philosophy, key principles, benefits, challenges and ethics of SST and get an insight to how it can transform practice,  systems and how services are delivered. 

Guests:

Jeff Young (PhD) is Emeritus Professor, La Trobe University in Melbourne, Australia. He is a clinical psychologist and family therapist who has worked, published and presented in the area of Mental Health for over 38 years. He was Director of The Bouverie Centre, the world’s largest specialist family therapy centre between 2009 & 2022.

Katy Stephenson, Family and Systemic Psychotherapist working in a Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service community team in NHS, Dorset Healthcare Trust. She has worked predominately with children, young people, their families/carers and significant others for over 20 years. 

Flavio Cannistrà, is co-founder and co-director of the Italian Center for Single Session Therapy and the ICNOS Institute, a school of Specialization in Brief Systemic Strategic Psychotherapy. He has published articles on Brief Therapy in international journals and has been a conference speaker in Europe, the United States, Australia and Japan.

His publications include “Terapia a Seduta SIngola. Principi e pratiche.” (2018, Giunti, translated into English and Japanese) and “Terapia breve centrata sulla soluzione. Principi e pratiche” (EPC).

Link to symposium:

https://www.singlesessiontherapies.com/single-session-therapy-symposium/

In this episode we meet with Robert van Hennik to discuss his professional doctorate titled: Practice Based Evidence Based Practice: Navigating Complexity in Feedback-informed Systemic Therapy.  Robert brings his ideas alive by talking us through his approach in a practical way. He eloquently shares how the theory is woven into practice through collaborative work with the systems, families, institutions, networks. Robert guides us through case examples and his own journey with this fantastic way of working.


Robert van Hennik works as a systemic and narrative therapist, supervisor, consultant and teacher in Euthopia, centre for systemic therapy and training in the Netherlands. He is one of the founders of the NDC2 (Dutch and Belgian Narrative Dialogical and Collaborative Collective). He studied at the University of Bedfordshire (UK) and is Professional Doctor in Systemic Practices. Recently he has promoted and guided practice based research within collaborative learning communities.

References:

Van Hennik, R. (2018). Practice based evidence based practice: navigating complexity in feedback-informed systemic therapy.

van Hennik, R. (2021). Practice based evidence based practice, part II: Navigating complexity and validity from within. Journal of Family Therapy, 43(1), 27-45.

Van Hennik, R., & Hillewaere, B. (2017). Practice Based Evidence Based Practice. Navigating based on coordinated improvisation, collaborative learning and multi‐methods research in Feedback Informed Systemic Therapy. Journal of Family Therapy, 39(3), 288-309.

In this episode we speak with Dr. Viola Sallay and Dr. Tamás Martos about EMOTH a therapeutic tool they have created to support therapist in nurturing new ways of having conversations with families. They share the development, application and case examples allowing us to fully experience the possibilities of EMOTH. This expansive tool finds creative ways to bring home into the therapeutic space asking a new layer of possibilities with therapeutic work. 

What is EMOTH?

The map of family experiences at home - a therapeutic tool for self-discovery, family exploration, and storytelling

EMOTH is a tool to support the everyday work of helping professionals. EMOTH can be used to visualize and discuss the emotional experiences of individuals and families in the home.

Check their website:

https://emoth.experimaps.com/en/

This episode is a reflective conversation bout the recent AFT symposium "Building Bridges" which took place in Birmingham in July 2023. We are joined by Jennifer Achan, Anokh Goodman, Sybil Qasir and Judy Sutton who share their experiences of the day from their personal and professional positions. 

If you were unable to make it in person then we hope this gives you a flavour of the day and if you were there a reminder of the event. 

In this episode Parveen Kaur & Amy Urry join us to discuss an initiative by AFT to openly and collaboratively work with members on issues of diversity. They share the intentions of creating the DWPs, provide insights on what they are about and details on how to join.


Parveen Kaur works as a Family & Systemic Psychotherapist in Community CAMHS for Midlands Partnership NHS Foundation Trust.  She practices as a clinical Supervisor on the MSc training programme at Birmingham and in March 2021 started her role as Head of the Birmingham Systemic Training Programme.  In addition, she teaches clinical applications of FT-AN to SFP trainees on the Eating disorder training pathway for CYP IAPT training in Manchester.

Amy Urry worked as a Family and Systemic Psychotherapist in a Specialist Personality Disorder Service, Devon Partnership Trust. She is UKCP registered, and an approved supervisor and trainer, with many years of experience working with individuals, couples, families, teams and organisations. She taught Family Therapy at Foundation and Intermediate levels from 1981, and was co-director of the Post-graduate Diploma/MSc in Systemic Practice from 1991- 2009 at Exeter University. Amy has been a member of the Board of Directors and Trustees since 2017

In this episode we talk with Dr Travis Heath and discuss the book “Reimagining Narrative Therapy Through Practice Stories and Autoethnography by Travis Heath, Tom Carlson and David Epston.

The heart of the book is a re embracing of the spirits of narrative practice through the teaching and learning of this approach. Travis invites us to explore the essence of the model through autoethnography, practice & teaching stories It’s a deep dive into the core of its inventive origins from dedicated practitioners.

Travis is a licensed psychologist and is an Associate Professor at San Diego State University, where he serves as Chair of the Department of Counseling & School Psychology. Past work he’s been involved with looked at shifting from a multicultural approach to counseling to one of cultural democracy that invites people to heal in mediums that are culturally near. 

His most recent work involves incorporating the work of Black abolitionist scholars into psychotherapy, community healing, and uprising. His writing has focused on the use of rap music in narrative therapy, working with persons entangled in the criminal injustice system in ways that maintain their dignity, narrative practice stories as pedagogy, a co-created questioning practice called reunion questions, and community healing strategies. He is co-author, with David Epston and Tom Carlson, of the first book on Contemporary Narrative Therapy released in June 2022 entitled, “Reimagining Narrative Therapy Through Practice Stories and Autoethnography.” The book is part of the “Writing Lives” series with Routledge publishing. Travis has been fortunate to facilitate workshops and speak in Australia, Canada, Denmark, Hong Kong, India, Italy, New Zealand, Norway, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

Peter Rober returns onto the podcast to talk in detail about his JFT award winning paper ‘One step up, but not there yet’: using client feedback to optimise the therapeutic alliance in family therapy, where he and his co-authours talk about the integral role of collaboration and therapeutic alliance in achieving positive outcomes in therapy.

In this episode Peter talks to us about the feedback instruments,  the origins of using feedback in his practice, the development of the tools. He  gives examples, tips and insights  in using these in practice. We hear how Peter integrates feedback into practice in a meaningful and collaborative way for families to bring about change. Peter also discusses how fluid the tools are and can be adapted to different cultures, context and settings.

Paper reference:

Rober, P., Van Tricht, K., & Sundet, R. (2021). ‘One step up, but not there yet’: using client feedback to optimise the therapeutic alliance in family therapy. Journal of Family Therapy, 43(1), 46-63.


Resources:

https://www.intherapytogether.com/

In this episode we meet with Graham Music, Consultant Child Psychotherapist and former Associate Clinical Director at the Tavistock Clinic in London. We discuss his career, his books as we dive into his ideas on the interplay between systemic thinking, attachment theory, developmental psychology and the new frontiers of neuroscience.

We discussed this paper as a focus for the conversation:

Music, G. (2019). Babies and bathwaters: attachment, neuroscience, evolution and the left. Soundings, 73(73), 111-128.


Graham Music works as a therapist both with adults and children, as well as families, especially after trauma, both in the NHS and privately. He is an international speaker, teacher and supervisor of other therapists, working as a consultant psychotherapist at the Tavistock Clinic in London, an internationally renowned mental health centre, where he was formerly an associate clinical director. His passions include child development research, neuroscience and attachment theory, and how cutting-edge developmental findings can help us in our lives and in how we work with others.

Welcome to The Systemic Lens - our podcast where we geek out on systemic ideas and apply them to films, music, literature and pop culture. 

In this episode we take on the magnificent film,  Everything Everywhere All At Once.

Enjoy!

In this episode we speak with the ever inspiring Vikki Reynolds Phd who talks with us about her ongoing work and process of  social justice, direct action and activism. Vikki shares personal and professional insights on her commitment to justice doing, decolonisation and living and working in an ethical way. We hear her dedication to addressing inequality, power structures and discrimination through aligning her values with everyday actions and the importance of  sustaining oneself through this work.  

Bio:

Vikki Reynolds PhD RCC is an activist/therapist from Vancouver, Canada, who works to bridge the worlds of social justice activism and therapy. Vikki is a white settler of Irish, Newfoundland and English folks, and a heterosexual woman with cisgender privilege. Her experience includes supervision and therapy with peers, activists, and other workers responding to the opioid epidemic/poisonings, torture and political violence, sexualised violence, mental health and substance misuse, homelessness and legislated poverty and working alongside gender and sexually diverse communities. 

Vikki is an Adjunct Professor and has written, keynoted and presented internationally on the subjects of ‘Witnessing Resistance’ to oppression/trauma, ally work, resisting ‘burnout’ with justice-doing, a supervision of solidarity, ethics, and innovative group work. 

Vikki’s articles and keynotes are available free on her website:

https://vikkireynolds.ca/

In this episode we speak with systemic  and narrative psychotherapist, Sabine Vermeire who discusses in detail her approach to working with children, young people and their families and carers using an attachment narrative approach to nurture belonging and open up therapeutic possibilities. We discuss Sabine's  wonderful paper "No child is an island: from attachment narratives towards a sense of belonging" (2021) and take a deeper look at her process, hearing about her approach, theory, case examples and her passion and joy for her inspiring work.

Paper reference:
Vermeire, S. (2021). No child is an island: from attachment narratives towards a sense of belonging. Journal of Family Therapy, 43(3), 414-425.

New book link:
https://amzn.eu/d/ejZxV8L

Unravelling Trauma and Weaving Resilience with Systemic and Narrative Therapy: Playful Collaborations with Children, Families and Networks (The Systemic Thinking and Practice Series) 

Bio:
Sabine Vermeire has a Master’s degree in Psychological and Educational Sciences and graduated as a Systemic Psychotherapist (Interactie-Academie) and as a Narrative Therapist (Institute of Narrative Therapy). As a member of staff at the Interactie-Academie, a training center for systemic psychotherapy and counseling in Antwerp (Belgium), she works as a trainer, psychotherapist and supervisor in systemic, narrative and collaborative therapy. She is experienced in working with children, youngsters and families in challenging contexts like attachment problems, violence, abuse, psychiatric problems and trauma. She wrote several articles and book chapters on these subjects.

For more than thirty years she worked with disadvantaged children, youngsters and their families. She strongly believes in the values they hold and together with them keeps on searching for ways to go on. What challenges her is to talk and work with young people and their parents or carers without reproducing abuse or violence in the conversations and still create possibilities in a collaborative way when speaking becomes difficult. This brought her the previous years on a quest finding ways of “talking off the beaten track” and work in creative ways. She use both interviews, reflecting team processes, witnesses and footage in her work.

She is president of the Narrative, Dialogical and Collaborative Collective of The Low Lands (Belgium and The Netherlands) that organizes international conferences, workshops and other activities to share, develop and expand narrative, dialogical and collaborative practices, theory and gathering together as a community.

Sabine wrote several books and articles (in English and in Dutch). A few of them in collaborations with the children or families she works with.

In this episode we focus on the special issue in the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy (JMFT) which reviews the efficacy and effectiveness of couple and family therapy from the last decade.

We speak with editors of the review Dr Andrea Wittenborn and Dr Kendal Holtrop who share their process and insights into collaborating on the reviews creation, the value of research in family therapy and using research to connect to real life practice.

Wittenborn, A. K., &  Holtrop, K. (2022).  Introduction to the special issue on the efficacy and effectiveness of couple and family interventions: Evidence base update 2010–2019. Journal of Marital and Family Therapy,  48,  5– 22. https://doi.org/10.1111/jmft.12576

Bios:

Dr. Andrea Wittenborn is Professor of Human Development and Family Studies. She also holds an appointment in the Division of Psychiatry and Behavioral Medicine. Dr. Wittenborn obtained her Ph.D. from Purdue University in 2007, served on the faculty at Virginia Tech for seven years, and joined Michigan State University in 2014. Her research evaluates the process and outcomes of interventions for depression, including methods for personalizing treatment. As a clinical researcher, she tests interventions that target interpersonal mechanisms of depression with the goal of decreasing depressive symptoms and enhancing close relationships. Her work has been funded by federal agencies such as the National Institutes of Health, as well as state, foundation, and intramural awards.
 
Dr. Wittenborn has served in multiple leadership positions including Director of Graduate Studies, Governor-appointed member of the Michigan Board of Marriage and Family Therapy, National Institutes of Health grant reviewer, editor of the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy effectiveness in couple and family therapy decade review issue, and Editorial Board Member of the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy, Journal of Couple and Relationship Therapy, and Contemporary Family Therapy. She is also a licensed marriage and family therapist and an AAMFT Approved Clinical Supervisor. Dr. Wittenborn has received several awards for her research and mentoring of graduate students.

Dr. Kendal Holtrop is an associate professor of human development and family studies. She obtained her PhD from Michigan State University in 2011, served on the faculty at Florida State University for six years, and then returned to MSU in 2017. Dr. Holtrop’s program of research focuses on parenting and parenting interventions, with the goal of addressing mental health disparities by expanding the reach of evidence-based parenting interventions among underserved populations. Her research activities include adapting and implementing evidence-based interventions in community settings as well as examining parenting practices and family processes to inform intervention work. Dr. Holtrop completed a Child Intervention, Prevention, and Services (CHIPS) training fellowship, funded by the national Institute for Mental Health, from 2015-2016. She is an Editorial Board Member for the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy (term ending 2017) and an Advisory Editor for Family Process. She is also a licensed marriage and family therapist and an AAMFT Approved Supervisor.

In this episode we speak with Kam Kaur (senior social worker/systemic practitioner) and Claire Field (social care consultant and managing director) as they share with us details of The Parenting Apart Programme.

We hear about their personal and professional connections in developing  the programme and in working with separated parents in conflict. They share their wisdom and experience of how to support parents during these challenging and difficult processes as we get an insightful walk through the 7 steps of the programme; examples of the positive impact their work has had on families and; we talk through some of the systemic ideas that have influenced their work.

Claire and Kam take us to the heart of their work with their passion and commitment to supporting families and achieving a positive social impact.

You can find out more about their work on their website:

https://www.parentingapartprogramme.co.uk

You can also watch their short film on there approach on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBiH_2iryI4

In this episode we talk to systemic psychotherapist, consultant and filmmaker Charlotte Burck about her inspiration and process of making this personal film about the development of systemic family psychotherapy at the Tavistock Clinic, UK. Charlotte shares  professional and personal stories about this unique time and the joys and challenges of bringing this story to film.
 
The film Working from the Margins. The development of systemic psychotherapy at the Tavistock Clinic can be viewed for free here: https://youtu.be/wMSX_PJSgb0 

Charlotte Burck's Bio (taken from The Taos Institute):

Charlotte is an honorary consultant systemic psychotherapist at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust, and is director of the Family Therapy and Systemic Research Centre, a resource for systemic, social constructionist, narrative, dialogical therapists and researchers and the public. The FTSRC website, which is hosted on the Tavistock & Portman website, holds a database of research references pertinent to the field, of qualitative and process research, of effectiveness and outcome research, and of links to researchers and their websites.

Charlotte worked for 25 years as a consultant systemic psychotherapist, trainer, supervisor and researcher in the child and adolescent mental health department of the Tavistock Clinic, where she did clinical work, carried out research and trained systemic clinicians at all levels. With David Campbell, she designed and then ran the Professional Doctorate in Systemic Psychotherapy, a research programme for systemic psychotherapists to explore clinical and organisational questions close to their heart. She had a special clinical interest in working with families who have experienced violence or high parental conflict.

With her colleague Gillian Hughes, Charlotte set up a small team, Refugee Resilience Collective in March 2016, offering weekly narrative-systemic psychosocial and political resilience-based support to refugees and volunteers, in the Calais area, which continues offering weekly support to volunteers in Calais and to voluntary organisations working with refugees in Greece.

Charlotte is the author of Multilingual Living. Explorations of Language and Subjectivity, based on her Phd research, and is co-author (with Gwyn Daniel) of Gender and Family Therapy, co-editor (with Gwyn Daniel) of Mirrors and Reflections: Processes in Systemic Supervision, co-editor (with Ellie Kavner & Sara Barratt) of Positions and Polarities in Contemporary Systemic Practice. The legacy of David Campbell, co-editor (with Bebe Speed) of Gender, Power and Relationships, She is the series editor (with Gwyn Daniel) of the Routledge Systemic Thinking and Practice Series, which commissions books from systemic and narrative psychotherapists, organisational consultants and others, relevant to the systemic, narrative and dialogical fields. Other publications can be located at: repository.tavistockandportman.ac.uk/view/creators/Burck

Charlotte recently trained as a documentary film-maker, and to date has made two films featuring refugees. It remains crucial to her to develop and sustain connections with other systemic, social constructionist, narrative, and dialogical professionals, as well as to critical theorists and psychosocial colleagues, in order to sustain solidarity and creativit

In this episode Professor Vernon Cronen shares his journey in developing CMM. Professor Cronen talks about his relationship with Barnet Pearce, introducing the ideas in the UK and the current developments of CMM theory and practice. Vernon weaves his experiences with stories from his life giving us a colourful and intricate walk through his relationship with CMM. 

Prof. Vernon Cronen has been a member of the faculty of the University of Massachusetts, Department of Communication since 1970. He was for many years Senior Consultant at the KCC Foundation (Kensington Consultation Centre, London). He is also an Associate of CMM Institute for Personal and Social Evolution. Professor Cronen is best known for his work on the communication theory Coordinated Management of Meaning which he co-authored with Barnett Pearce. He has lectured and presented workshop in many places in the US and through Europe. 

Vernon Cronen is Co-author with Barnett Pearce of the book Communication, Action and Meaning: The Creation of Social realities . Cronen describes CMM as a “practical theory” that can also be put to critical purposes. As a practical theory it provides a grammar of action for joining with others to create new possibilities for joint action. He is author or co-author of numerous articles and book chapters in communication, psychology, and consultation. 

In this episode we meet with Consultant systemic psychotherapist Carol Halliwell as she shares her personal and professional connections with the Just Therapy team at the Family Centre in New Zealand.

We explore the Just Therapy approach and hear how the guiding principles that underpin their work has influenced and guided Carol's practice for over 20 years. 

In this episode we meet with the one and only Monica McGoldrick as she takes us through her career and journey in using family genograms in her clinical work. We hear how Monica has developed her ideas throughout the years and the use of symbols, patterns and the importance of exploring life cycles. This is a unique opportunity of hearing a master therapist share her insights into the application of this integral tool in systemic family therapy. 

Monica McGoldrick, MSW, PhD (h.c.),  Director of the Multicultural Family Institute
Teacher, author and family therapist. She has an international reputation as a trainer and author. She is on the Clinical Faculty of the Psychiatry Department of the Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School. Her books include Ethnicity and Family Therapy (3rd ed), The Expanded Family Life Cycle (5th ed. 2017), Genograms (3rd ed), Living Beyond Loss (2nd ed), Re-Visioning Family Therapy: Race, Culture and Gender in Clinical Practice (2nd ed), Women in Families, and The Genogram Journey: Reconnecting with Your Family (2nd ed of You Can Go Home Again, 2011).  Her newest book the Genogram Casebook was published by W.W. Norton in 2016.  She is also the author of a number of clinical videos available through www.psychotherapy.net.

See more of Monica's work at:

https://multiculturalfamily.org

In this episode we discuss the mother and daughter relationship with Rosjke Hasseldine. Rosjke has spent almost 30 years working therapeutically with mothers and daughters and researching the factors that contribute to the complexity of this relationship. 

Rosjke has trained over1000 therapists and coaches from 20 different countries in her   Mother-Daughter Attachment training.

In this conversation, Rosjke  some of her experiences, therapeutic interventions and the model she has developed (the mother and daughter attachment model) which is a very important contribution to this often ignored area of clinical research. 

Find out more about Rosjke;'s work at https://www.rosjke.com

In this episode we talk with systemic psychotherapist, supervisor and trainer Karen Partridge about the role of creativity and improvisation in systemic supervision. Karen takes us on a journey of metaphors through "swampy lowlands", "constructive awkwardness", "positioning compass" and her "rememberall".

Karen shares her ideas of connecting to our creative selves and how to embrace it within the supervision process.

Welcome back after a short summer break.

In this episode we reflect on the wonderful AFT 2022 Conference entitled: Transgenerational stories of hope across cultures; old wisdoms and new truths which was host by the West Yorkshire AFT at the Queens Hotel in Leeds.

We share our reflections, highlights and the experience of the conference and also speak to attendees, presenters and organisers about their favourite moments and what the conference meant to them.

Massive thank you for everyone who took their time to speak with us and in this episode we feature:
Carole Hunt
Hugh Palmer
Paul Walton
Diane Holdsworth 
Kevin Simmons
Diane Morrison
Michaela Wickham-Hills
Marian Dixon
Hannah Sherbersky

Apologies for those we spoke with at the conference but could not include due to some audio issues. 

In this episode we meet with the filmmakers of the documentary film "KCC Stories Lived and Stories Told" which was premiered at the AFT conference 2021.  We meet with the creators, Rick Murphy, Helen Mahaffey, Ayesha Aslam, Mark Chidgey and Karen Partridge as they share their reflections on key moments from the film, their thoughts on making the film and their memories of the KCC and what it means to them. 


We invite you to all watch the film (if you haven't already) and  share in  reflecting about the memory and legacy of the KCC.

You can watch the full film here:

https://youtu.be/j48EfTVsJoo

Please do share with us your reflections, memories and thoughts about the KCC, the documentary and this episode at  https://www.instagram.com/thesystemicway/

Dr Imelda McCarthy PhD. joins us to share the story, development and practice of the Fifth Province. Imelda talk with us about how the Fifth Province evolved within the context of Ireland, the wider systemic community and the connections it has with spirituality. She gives us examples of using the myth  in practice and how the model invites space into the therapy room. We also hear about thematic diamonds and to work with oppositional positions.

Dr Imelda  McCarthy, PhD. is a systemic/social constructionist therapist, supervisor and consultant.   She has affiliations with School of Applied Social Science at University College Dublin where she was a director of the PhD program in families and systemic therapies and a senior university lecturer. She currently works in private practice while she teaches and consults nationally and internationally.  Imelda is also affiliated with Kensington Consultation Centre (London, UK), is on the faculty of the TAOS institute PhD programme. She has written and presented both nationally and internationally in over 20 countries on the topics of Women, Child Sexualised Abuse, Poverty and Spirituality and Therapy.

From 1981 – 1995 Imelda was a member of a clinical team, the Fifth Province Associates whose work along with her own has been translated into eight languages. She is also a co-founder of the Irish Family Therapy Association and Ireland’s first professional training programme in family therapy at the Mater Misericordiae Hospital in Dublin.

Check out Imelda's website:

www.imeldamccarthy.com

Introducing our new podcast adventure - The Systemic Lens. We are a group of systemic therapist with a love for film, TV, music, literature and theatre and will be using systemic theory to share our reflections, thoughts and resonances on some our our favourites. 

Through these podcast we hope to expand the bounds of systemic application and offer alternative forms of analysis to film, TV, Music, literature etc. We also hope to provide new ways for people to connect with systemic ideas.

We begin with an a systemic exploration of the classic Wizard of Oz and discuss issues of gender, power and the discovery of self through relationships. 

Enjoy. 

In this episode we talk with Dr Ged Smith about his ideas on taking a 1.5 order position in therapy. Ged introduces us to the meaning of the 1.5 order position and shows us ways to operate within and between first and second order positions from his own experience. 

In this podcast we discuss the therapeutic conundrums and tensions between the therapists  position as expert and collaborator; having certainty and exploring and knowing and not-knowing.

Nick Pendry is a social worker and family therapist. He is currently employed as the deputy director of children's services at the London Borough of Wandsworth. He identifies as a Brown-Indian man. Nick has worked in various roles in the NHS and local authority children’s services. He is particularly interested in embedding systemic ideas and practices into children’s social care and in the construction of race and racism.

In this conversation Nick Pendry shares his thoughts and reflections on race and racism and how they inform and shape his practice. Nick invites us to consider our own positions and how together we can open the door to more authentic, meaningful and transformative conversations about race and racism. 

In this episode we hear about Inga-Britt Krause's professional life with a focus on race and equity - the importance of teaching it and the nuances that need to be held in mind. The conversation is framed around her paper "Can we teach race and equity? (2022)" and we hope it invites a lens of curiosity and reflection on where we are at with race and equity as a systemic community.

Inga-Britt Krause is Training and Development Consultant with special reference to race and equity at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust where she also worked as a Consultant Systemic Psychotherapist in a Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service. She first trained as a Social Anthropologist at the London School of Economics and Political Science and teaches widely, nationally and internationally, on the subject of social science and psychotherapy and about the place of culture and race in clinical practice and theory.

Paper discussed in this episode:
Krause, I. B. (2022). Can we teach race and equity?. Journal of Family Therapy, 44(1), 157-170.

New publication:
Barbetta, P., Cavagnis, M. E., Krause, I. B., & Telfener, U. (2022). Ethical and aesthetic explorations of systemic practice: New critical reflections. Taylor & Francis.

Dr Victor Yalom, founder of Psychotherapy.net joins the Systemic Way in a conversation about developing your best therapeutic self. We hear about his experiences of becoming a therapist, creating Psychotherapy.net and also tips on developing a more dynamic, authentic self so that you can better connect with and support your clients along their therapeutic journey.

Being self-aware, comfortable sitting with difficult emotions, and truly present for our clients are essential skills that cannot be learned from books and classes. Yet these are key to forming strong therapeutic alliances and promoting meaningful growth and change.

Dr Victor Yalom shares his ideas on continuing professional development beyond the books whether you’re an established clinician with years of experience or a new practitioner just starting out.

www.psychotherapy.net

In this episode, Julie and Sezer speak with Gwyn Daniel about her connection to politics and systemic thinking and how she navigates the two in the systemic community. Gwyn talks about gender, power, class and geography in this rich and insightful episode.

Gwyn Daniel is a Systemic Family Therapist, Trainer, Clinical Supervisor  and co-founder of the Oxford Family Institute. She has authored or co-authored many professional books and articles and we welcome Gwyn back to talk to us about this important topic.

In this episode we explore the personal and professional journey of Hesther Selbeck, a Dutch Systemic Psychotherapist and developer of Contextual Equine Therapy. Hesther takes us on a ride through the development, theory and practice that underpins her model. 

Contextual Equine Therapy is a form of systemic therapy in which horses are used as co-therapists. The interaction with the horses provides a (deep) experiential form of therapy in which clients come into contact with their emotions and are mirrored in their behavior. 

During the treatment, two psychotherapeutic methods are united: equine therapy (Eagala Model) and systemic therapy. The Eagala Model sees the horse as a sensitive co-therapist, the team facilitates. Equine therapy focuses on the emotional experience and giving meaning to the behavior of the animals in response to client(s).

Hesther Selbeck has developed this treatment based on her background and expertise as a systems therapist in Child and Youth Mental Health Care. There she encountered a challenge in changing patterns between family members and generating hope and perspective. She questioned the context of the clinic on the psychiatric behavior of young people. While traveling on horseback through Mongolia, she discovered a process of interaction between her and the horse. There was an interaction going on. These insights and experiences became the basis for the approach.

 
www.hestherselbeck.nl 

In this episode we are honoured to speak with Ncazelo Ncube-Mlilo, where we discuss her work with a focus on the COURRAGE approach that she has developed with women who have experienced trauma.  COURRAGE is a collective narrative way of working that privileges the alternative stories of women who have faced significant hardships. It honours the strengths, skills and courage women show and use in the face of sorrow and grief.

Ncazelo talks us through the different stages of the model and shares stories about how it was co-created and reflections in the women's experiences.  This is an inspiring and insightful talk with a practitioner who takes us into the heart of her practice. 

Ncazelo Ncube-Mlilo, the pioneer of Tree of Life through her organisation PHOLA  provides training and supervision in many countries where the methodology is used to support practitioners to remain rooted to the values and principles that inform it. The trainings offered seek to ensure fidelity in the use, application and adaptation of the methodology and contribute towards promoting culturally sensitive therapies.

She developed other culturally sensitive counselling tools namely; COURRAGE Methodology and NARRATIVES IN THE SUITCASE Project. 

Find out more about Ncazelo and PHOLA at:

https://phola.org 

In this episode, Julie and Sezer speak with Chiara Santin who  is a Systemic and Family Psychotherapist, supervisor, trainer and Director of Rainbow Family Therapy Services  and Rainbow Community Projects CIC.  

Chiara has  worked with children and families for more than 30 years, in Italy as a community-based youth worker and in UK as a professional. She is passionate about promoting affordable family therapy, activity-based therapy and EcoTherapy. 

EcoTherapy is a form of therapy  which uses  nature as the context for change, self-growth and healing.  It is the application of Ecopsychology, a well-developed field to claim people’s need to reconnect to nature for their own benefit as well as promoting a renewed awareness and commitment to caring and protecting the environment of which we are part of. 

Chiara talks to us about her projects in applying EcoTherapy to systemic family therapy. 

For more information about Chiara's work and EcoTherapy, visit her website on:

www.familytherapyservicesrainbow.org 

In this episode we hear about the  ground-breaking Handbook of Systemic Family Therapy (Wampler, 2020) from three contributing editors. We discuss it's creation, the process of its development and get a deeper dive into some of the chapters. This handbook is a magnificent resource for family therapist as its sets to redefine the  profession and practice of systemic therapy and it was a real pleasure and privilege to speak with Reenee, Mudita and Adrian about their role in creating this international handbook

The Handbook integrates the scholarly literature on systemic interventions focused on children, couples, and families into a single resource. Volume 1 includes critical information on the theoretical, practice, research, and policy foundations of the profession of systemic family therapy and its roles in an integrated health care system. Topics in Volume 2 (children and adolescents), Volume 3 (couples), and Volume 4 (family over the lifespan) reflect established and emerging interventions for the core difficulties in relationships that impact the mental and physical health of individuals, couples, and families. 

Adrian J. Blow, PhD, works as a couple and family therapy intervention researcher and educator at Michigan State University. Adrian is a Professor and Chair in the Human Development and Family Studies department and a core faculty member of the Couple and Family Therapy program. He studies families and trauma, military families, resilience processes in couples, and change processes (common factors) in interventions pertaining to Systemic Family Therapy. . He has mentored many students and in 2017 was awarded the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy Training Award, which recognizes excellence in family therapy education. 

Mudita Rastogi, PhD, practices at Aspire Consulting and Therapy as a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, grant consultant, coach, and educator. She is an AAMFT Approved Supervisor and Clinical Fellow, having practiced in both India and the US. She is a former Professor at the Illinois School of Professional Psychology, Program Director for the SAMHSA-funded Minority Fellowship Program at AAMFT, Associate Editor for the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy, Editor of Multicultural Couple Therapy and Voices of Color, and Associate Editor for the Encyclopedia of Couple and Family Therapy. She is a founding member of the Indian Association for Family Therapy, with interest in diversity, inclusion, global mental health, parenting, and child-free couples. 

Reenee Singh, DSysPsych, is the former Chief Executive of the Association of Family Therapy and Systemic Practice in the UK. She is a Consultant Family and Systemic Psychotherapist, currently working at the Child and Family Practice, where she founded the London Intercultural Couples Centre and serves as a Director. Reenee is a Visiting Professor in the School of Psychology, University of Bergamo, Italy, and is the past editor of the Journal of Family Therapy. She is the author of three books and numerous academic publications in the areas of "race," culture, and qualitative research. Reenee has taught worldwide and presents her research at national and international conferences.

Special Mention:

Karen S. Wampler, PhD, retired as Professor and Chair of the Human Development and Family Studies department at Michigan State University. She previously served as Department Chair, Marriage and Family Therapy (MFT) Program Director, and the C. R. and Virginia Hutcheson Professor at Texas Tech University. Prior to that, she developed and directed the MFT Program at the University of Georgia. Her research focused on applying attachment theory to couple interaction, family therapy process research, and observational measures of relationships. A past editor of the Journal of M

In this episode we meet with the founder of Superhero Therapy, the amazing  Dr Janina Scarlet! We talk about her  work, career and the development of Superhero Therapy. As ever, we explore how this approach can be used within systemic therapy and think about ways in which we can incorporate the use of Superheroes in our work with families.

Dr. Janina Scarlet, based in San Diego, CA, is a Clinical Psychologist, award-winning author, podcaster and a full-time geek!

Dr Scarlet is a Ukrainian-born refugee who  survived Chernobyl radiation and persecution. She immigrated to the United States at the age of 12 with her family and later, inspired by the X-Men, developed Superhero Therapy. We hear her story of how she developed the approach.

Superhero Therapy  is a clinical method of incorporating characters from popular culture, including Superheroes and other characters from books, movies, TV shows and video games into evidence-based therapy (such as cognitive-behavioral therapy and acceptance and commitment therapy) to help us to learn to become our own version of a superhero in real life.

It is intended for all ages and has been utilised to reshape narratives, build rapport, and manage an array of psychological issues such as  anxiety, depression, PTSD, chronic pain and chronic illness, substance abuse disorders, eating disorders, and other difficulties.

Please do share your thoughts with us at:

https://www.instagram.com/thesystemicway/

In this episode we meet Dr Travis Heath, PhD, to speak about decolonising psychotherapy. He generously shares his current thinking, reading and practice around the topic.

Travis Heath is Narrative Therapist, Clinical Psychologist and Associate Professor of Psychology at Metropolitan State University of Denver, Colorado. His work has  focused on  shifting from a multicultural approach to counseling to one of cultural democracy that invites people to heal in mediums that are culturally near.  Travis has also written on the use of rap music in narrative therapy, working with persons entangled in the criminal justice system in ways that maintain their dignity, narrative practice stories as pedagogy, a co-created questioning practice called reunion questions, and community healing strategies. Travis is currently co-authoring the first book on Contemporary Narrative Therapy with David Epston. 

Travis has ran workshops and speak about his work in Australia, Canada, Denmark, Hong Kong, India, New Zealand, Norway, United Kingdom, and United States.

Link to his Ted Talk:
https://www.ted.com/talks/travis_heath_self_care_to_communities_of_care 

In this episode we speak with Joe Cottrell-Boyce, film writer, systemic family therapist and social worker about the ITV drama "Stephen" which he co-wrote (2021).  We explore themes of family trauma, the impact of racism, institutional racism and the search for justice and peace.  We also discuss his 2021 paper "Addressing White privilege in family therapy: A discourse analysis" which was published in the Journal of Family Therapy.

Watch the TV show here:

https://www.itv.com/hub/stephen/10a0537


Cottrell‐Boyce, J. (2021). Addressing White privilege in family therapy: A discourse analysis. Journal of Family Therapy.

Find out more about Joe's work at:

https://lse.academia.edu/JoeCottrellBoyce 

In this episode we meet with Josue Cardona who is the founder and president of Geek Therapy based in the USA.  Geek Therapy is a affinity based model of therapeutic intervention that shows you different ways to communicate and understand people through their passions and interest. 

Learn more about Geek Therapy @  www.geektherapy.org  

In this episode we review the past year, looking at how the podcast started, our hopes in creating the content, review of the episodes and a look forward to what is coming up in 2022!

Thank you to all the listeners and special guests that have joined us in our first year in making the podcast! Special thank you to Tasmin Arai Drake and Rena Paid for providing the art work and music for our podcast!

In this episode Julie and Sezer speak with Helen Bonnick, author of the book 'Child to Parent Violence and Abuse: A Practitioner’s Guide to Working with Families'. 

We discuss the origins of the book,  core ideas,  implications for practice and the systemic ideas which have both influenced and developed her work.

In this episode we speak with Professor Dr Carlene Firmin MBE and Lisa Bostock on the development, key ideas, research and implementation of Contextual Safeguarding. 

We explore how the framework of Contextual Safeguarding crosses over and interacts with systemic concepts and gain insights into how we can begin to use this framework in our practice. 

For more information on Contextual Safeguarding visit their website at https://contextualsafeguarding.org.uk 

In todays episode we speak with systemic psychotherapy consultants, Percy Aggett and Philip Messent who share their thoughts on rethinking leadership and management through a collaborative approach drawing on systemic principles and ideas.

Percy Aggett is a social work trained systemic psychotherapist. He was previously the Associate Clinical Director and Head of Psychological Therapies in Tower Hamlets CAMHS, East London, UK. “I am concerned to create safe, imaginative organisations. I am interested in the different ways in which people learn and how to create contexts in which people learn best. I am interested in developing dialogic approaches to team development and how mental health workers can be empowered to stay working with persistence in vulnerable communities.”

Philip Messent trained and worked as social worker in the UK, then as a systemic psychotherapist, in the 1980s, then spent 30 years working in children and adolescent mental health services in the East End of London. He is also the current editor of the Journal of Family Therapy.

VIVA talk! In today's episode Professor Hannah Sherbersky takes us through a piece of her work in the style of a VIVA. This episode gives the listener an insight into Hannah's practice and helpful ideas about answering questions and talking about ones work in general.

Professor Hannah Sherbersky is  an Associate Professor, Systemic Psychotherapist, Deputy Director of Post-Graduate Taught Programmes and Co-Director of Systemic Portfolio at CEDAR, College of Life and Environmental Sciences, University Exeter.

Website - www.changetree.co.uk

For the full episode of the show we used for Hannah's VIVA please see the link below:

Sherbersky, H. (2019) ‘I Blame my Parents’. BBC 3 Documentary. See BBC site here. See YouTube here.

NVR: In this episode we speak with Dr Peter Jakob and Joanne Buchmuller on the development, theory and practice of NVR. They share their own experiences and reflections in this insightful and informative conversation.

Please do also check out their work at https://www.partnershipprojectsuk.com/ and their numerous publications on NVR.

In this episode we speak with Shona Grant about her relationship to embodiment in her practice - how she discovered it, its' meaning and the ways it has developed her as a systemic therapist and social worker. 

In this episode we met with author, dramatherapist and systemic practitioner Talya Bruck who talks to us about her therapeutic story writing and series of published books.  The  Savanna Therapeutic Stories series  was established at the beginning of Covid 19 2020  and are a valuable resource to help families, educators and therapists support young people through the use of metaphor. They are available at  https://tlrosenbaum1.wixsite.com/website and also on all good book retailers. 

In today's episode Julie and Sezer meet with the Co-editors of Pandemic as Systemic Flux which is a writing project within  Murmurations: Journal of Transformative Systemic Practice . The writing project has established and reflects a preoccupation with a need for the systemic practice community to feel ownership of our journals, to feel connected to the texts they read, and feel entitled to take up space with their writings.

We hear how the writing project came about and some of the stories that have driven the need for this important project to be created. 

Nana Bonsu is a Systemic Psychotherapist, social worker and head of clinical services at Richmond and Wandsworth councils in London and Marilena Karamatsouki is Psychologist and Systemic Family Therapist in Greece. 

Systemic Work in Singapore: A Conversation with systemic psychotherapists Maimunah Mosli and Fajar Saban on how they have introduced systemic practice to the  multi-cultural landscape of Singapore.

In this episode we discuss cross-cultural practice, the role of spirituality and systemic community work. We also hear the inspiring journey  and development of the SYM academy in Singapore. 

A conversation with Prof. Dr. Peter Rober who is a clinical psychologist, family therapist and family therapy trainer. Peter practices and teaches in Belgium and has several articles in international journals of family therapy. In this episode we hear how Peter became a family therapist and his use of inner conversations and dual process thinking through case examples. Alongside this Peter talks about how different systemic theories support and develop his current practice. 

In this episode Julie and Sezer speak with the fantastic Eileen Murphy and Mawuli Amesu from the Eileen Murphy Consultants. They provide  consultancy, practitioners, and training in Solution Focused Brief Therapy.  They work with a wide range of people, groups and organisations such as local authorities and charities. 

Eileen  leads the Consultancy and has, since 1993, devised specialist frameworks for Local Authorities and related agencies including the Prevention & Intervention Programme,  The Solution Focused School and Solution Focused Secure & Residential Unit training programmes.

Mawuli is an experienced Social Work Manager working in a variety of settings including Primary Care Trusts; Residential Care; Education and Children & Families. Mawuli has played a lead role in the Behaviour Improvement Programme, providing leadership and management for multi-agency teams and engaging headteachers in collaborative working.

This episode ranges from hearing the story of the creation of Eileen Murphy Consultants to live examples of some solution focused techniques.

You can find out more about their work at resources at:

www.brief-therapy-uk.com

In this episode we speak with Dr Sharon Bond and Kerri Newns about Chiron, an independent training institution. We hear stories, reflections and processes on the journey of creating and developing an additional voice to the mainstream systemic training institutions. 

In this episode Julie and Sezer speak with Gwyn Daniel,  a systemic psychotherapist and trainer who has experience of working in both children's services and in adult mental health.  We focus on her wonderful book Family Dramas: Intimacy Power and Systems in Shakespeare's Tragedies (2018) and the connection between systemic thinking and the arts. 

Gwyn is also co-author of Gender and Family Therapy (with Charlotte Burck), Growing Up in Stepfamilies (with Gill Gorell Barnes, P. Thompson and N. Burckhardt) and co-editor of Mirrors and Reflections: Processes in Systemic Supervision (with Charlotte Burck) as well as many other professional articles and book chapters. 

She has taught widely in the UK and internationally on many topics, including children and post divorce conflicts, systemic approaches to families where there is parental mental illness and on systemic couple's therapy. She continues to find ideas about gender and power central to her understanding of family relationships and organisational dilemmas.

In this episode Sezer and Julie speak with Nana Bonsu and Derek Dyer about their wonderful work in integrating systemic ideas within the context of children and families social work. Nana is the head of service for a local authority and leads on the implementation of systemic practice and Derek is the service manager for the local authorities children looked after and care leavers teams. 

In this episode Julie and Sezer speak with Consultant Systemic Family Psychotherapist Esther Usiskin Cohen about her inspiring work with refugee populations in the jungle camps in Calais. We hear about the Refugee Resiliance Collective (AKA Calais Resilience Collective - Tavistock Group) which is a team of therapist who are developing approaches to enhance the resilience, capacity, coping strategies and skills of refugees, staff and volunteers in the Calais camp. 

In this episode, Julie and Sezer speak with Systemic Psychotherapist Doreen Robinson and Dr Reenee Singh about their practice, experience and ideas within their joint paper Forced Marriage as a Representation of a Belief System in the UK and its Psychological Impact on Well-being  (2020) which can be found in The International Handbook of Black Community Mental Health (Majors, Carberry, & Ransaw, 2020).

In this episode Sezer and Julie speak with Karen Carberry and Dr Belinda Brooks-Gordon about their paper Black Therapists – White Families, therapists’ perceptions of cultural competence in clinical practice (2020) which can be found in The International Handbook of Black Community Mental Health (Majors, Carberry, & Ransaw, 2020). 

This episode is a conversation with highly specialist systemic psychotherapist, Vanessa Walker, covering her perspectives on her own systemic training and how it connects with some of her family scripts and her Context article I am my father's daughter. 

In this episode we speak with systemic psychotherapist, supervisor and trainer, Amy Urry, about ideas in her paper 'THE GOOD ENOUGH FAMILY THERAPIST: We may choose to be Family Therapists but not necessarily in circumstances of our choosing'. In this podcast we draw upon systemic and attachment ideas alongside professional and personal experiences to consider what it means to be an adequate family therapist in professional and personal contexts that fall short of ideal. 

In this episode Julie and Sezer speak with Jason Maldonado-Page about using the Social GGRRAACCEESS as a vehicle to explore issues of identity, relational reflexivity and self-reflexivity in  family therapy. 

Jason has over twenty years experience working with children, adolescents, adults, couples and families in a variety of statutory and voluntary settings both in the USA and the UK. 
He is the associate lecturer in systemic practice at the Tavistock and Portman, and also work as an independent family and systemic psychotherapist. Jason has a wide range of clinical experiences including working in specialist services such as eating disorders, gender identity, learning disability and autism spectrum condition, cancer and bereavement.

In this episode Sezer and Julie speak with Dr Ged Smith about the factors that have shaped his systemic practice. 

Dr Ged Smith is a family therapist of more than 25 years in both CAMHS and Adult Services with various NHS Trusts in the North West as well as in Private Practice. He has been teaching, supervising and consulting all over the world in this time, and has many articles published in academic journals and Context, of which he is a regular contributor and deputy editor. His special interests concern power and gender, particularly masculinity and working with men, which was the subject of his Doctoral study

In this episode Julie and Sezer speak with Dr Manijeh Daneshpour about working with issues of culture and her book Family Therapy with Muslim (2014). Dr Manijeh Daneshpour is a   systemwide director and professor of marriage and family therapy in the department of couple and family therapy at Alliant International University in Irvine, California and a licensed marriage and family therapist with over 22 years of academic, research, and clinical experience. She is from Iran and identifies herself as a third wave feminist. Dr. Daneshpour main areas of research, publications, and presentations have been centered on issues of multiculturalism, social justice, third wave feminism, and premarital and marital relationships.