Behind the Craft

My guest today is Dan Shipper, co-founder of Every. Dan co-founded Every and hosts a podcast called AI & I, where he has interviewed 25+ AI experts. He also recently launched Spiral, a new AI tool to help writers and creators save time and get more done. We had a great chat about how Dan uses AI to write, the traits that top AI experts have in common, and why “managers of AI models” could be a new career path. Timestamps: (00:00) Using AI to turn rambling thoughts into writing (00:57) Introducing Dan (01:56) Writing before AI existed (05:12) How AI helps in each step of the writing process (07:19) Using AI to summarize content (11:27) AI's role in podcast production (15:23) The common traits across AI power users (16:36) Tips to run your business with AI (18:37) Creating your personal AI coach (19:52) Why people struggle with using AI (22:04) Using AI to build apps without code (25:35) How the AI landscape is evolving (29:10) Managers of AI models as a new career (31:20) 3 steps for beginners to get started with AI Get the interview takeaways: https://creatoreconomy.so/p/how-to-use-ai-to-write-dan-shipper Where to find Dan: X: https://x.com/danshipper Newsletter and podcast: https://msha.ke/danshipper 📌 Subscribe to this channel – more interviews coming soon!

My guest today is Siqi Chen, co-founder and CEO of Runway. Siqi is a 3x founder who’s an expert at using AI to scale his business and life. We discussed his favorite AI prompts and workflows, building a company where people "give a shit," and how to raise your kids and cheat death in an AI-first world. Timestamps: (00:00) Can AI solve death? (00:55) Introducing Siqi (01:08) The #1 startup lesson after 2 successful exits (04:09) What Runway's "give a shit" value means (06:25) Why "raising the bar" leads to business results (11:32) Why the best time to be a founder is now (15:32) How non-technical people can get started with AI (22:20) Using AI to categorize and filter emails without code (25:09) AI will either solve death or kill all of us (26:57) Encourage your kids to explore AI and take more risks (32:00) Motivating your team in difficult times (35:44) Believe in your vision, but be flexible about how you get there (37:08) How Runway will reimagine financial planning Where to find Siqi: X: https://x.com/blader Website: https://runway.com/ Get the takeaways: https://creatoreconomy.so/p/siqi-chen-ai-hacks-from-a-3x-founder 📌 Subscribe to this channel – more interviews coming soon!

My guest today is Nat Eliason, one of my favorite writers online. Nat is the author of Crypto Confidential, a real-life thriller about how he made and lost millions in crypto. We also talked about how Nat uses AI to edit his writing, why he pushes himself to do hard things like writing a sci-fi novel, and his advice for aspiring creators on avoiding the dark side of the creator economy. Nat is a personal inspiration to me. If you enjoy our conversation, please like and subscribe to support the podcast and check out Nat's new book: https://www.nateliason.com/crypto-confidential Timestamps: (00:00) Prove to yourself that you can do hard things

(00:56) Introducing Nat

(02:06) Using AI to edit his non-fiction writing

(08:03) Why Nat is writing a sci-fi book

(11:42) 3 ways Nat is using AI to write his sci-fi book

(17:33) Using AI to fill in details about a sci-fi setting

(19:22) Novel Crafter as an advanced AI writing tool

(22:57) Why Nat got into crypto with a new baby coming

(26:50) Nat's lowest moment in crypto losing $35,000 in one night

(30:27) Why you must push yourself to do hard things

(34:36) How Nat keeps motivated through small wins

(38:26) The dark side of the creator economy

(41:43) How to avoid making content that you hate

(45:47) Advice for aspiring creators Where to find Nat: X: https://x.com/nateliason Get the takeaways: https://creatoreconomy.so/p/do-hard-things-ai-nat-eliason 📌 Subscribe to this channel – more interviews coming soon!

My guest today is Lane Shackleton, Chief Product Officer of Coda. Lane has interviewed hundreds of product teams from Figma, Uber, Spotify, and more as the chief product officer of Coda. He shared with me his favorite rituals from these interviews for crafting a vision, running product reviews, and making decisions. Timestamps:

(00:00) Cathedrals, not bricks to craft a great vision

(03:41) Moving beyond the 1-line vision with powerful artifacts

(06:46) Translating vision to roadmap with quarterly plus OKRs

(13:26) Why most product reviews fall short

(16:08) How the Catalyst meeting makes reviews better

(22:50) Two way write-ups to avoid the highest-paid person's opinion

(26:31) How to learn by making, not talking

(30:46) The trait that leaders and builders respect the most Get the templates for each ritual: https://creatoreconomy.so/p/rituals-and-templates-of-great-product-teams Where to find Lane: https://x.com/lshackleton 📌 Subscribe to this channel – more interviews coming soon!

My guest today is Robbie Crabtree, founder of Competitive Storytelling. Robbie is a top storytelling coach who has helped hundreds of founders raise $600M+ through this skill. Before that, he perfected his storytelling craft as a trial lawyer who oversaw 100+ criminal cases. We talked about: - How to craft a great story - The two stories that every leader must have - How to deliver your story in a compelling way I’ve struggled with storytelling myself, and Robbie’s tips were incredibly helpful. If you enjoy our conversation, please like and subscribe to support the podcast. Timestamps: (00:00) The U-shaped approach to tell a great story (01:29) The essence of a great story in one line (02:46) Connecting personally with your audience (03:56) Why impromptu storytelling is a myth (05:26) The five-part storytelling framework (05:52) Defending a murder case example (10:44) Crafting a story in 10 words (22:17) The two essential stories every leader needs (28:09) Deliver a story people will never forget (32:12) Proven tactics to tell better stories Where to find Robbie:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robbiecrab/Website: https://www.competitivestorytelling.co/ Get the takeaways: https://creatoreconomy.so/p/unlock-your-storytelling-superpower 📌 Subscribe to this channel – more interviews coming soon!

My guest today is Josh Miller, CEO of the Browser Company.

Josh and his team built Arc, an AI-first browser that users can’t stop raving about. To take on Google Chrome, they’ve raised $550M from top investors such as LinkedIn’s Jeff Weiner and Figma’s Dylan Field. In our chat, Josh gives us an inside look at how the Browser Company crafts great products and hires top talent.

Timestamps:

(00:00) The #1 thing we look for to hire great talent (01:29) Why Josh wants to re-invent the browser (04:41) How to find and hire great people (08:11) Build with the community on day 1 (12:01) Inside crafting browser that uses AI to browse for you (15:18) Turn it up to 100 on just one thing (19:47) We only have 12-24 months to win (24:30) Balancing craft with time to market (30:18) How Arc thinks about monetization (35:45) Addressing publisher concerns with AI search (41:04) The secret to feeling fulfilled in your career

Where to find Josh:

X: https://x.com/joshm Website: https://thebrowser.company/

Get the interview takeaways:

https://creatoreconomy.so/p/josh-miller-inside-ai-browser-product

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My guest today is Dave Kline.

David led teams at Bridgwater for 20+ years, working directly with billionaire Ray Dalio. Since then, he’s coached 1000s of leaders through his course and newsletter.

We spoke about:

- His journey from leader to solopreneur

- How to manage up well

- How to delegate and help others grow

If you enjoy our conversation, please like and subscribe to support the podcast.

Get the takeaways: https://creatoreconomy.so/p/dave-kline-how-to-manage

Timestamps:

(00:00) The #1 mistake that new managers make

(01:40) Top lesson from working with Ray Dalio

(04:25) Dave's journey from leader to solopreneur

(09:36) How to manage up without screwing up

(14:42) Asking for constructive feedback the right way

(19:01) Taking a strategic approach to getting promoted

(25:39) Why you should create a personal brand at your company

(26:18) The importance of delegating until it hurts

(30:29) Managing high and low performers

(35:16) A personal story of when harsh feedback forced Dave to grow

Where to find Dave:

Newsletter: https://mgmt.beehiiv.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidkline/

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My guest today is Scott Belsky, Adobe’s Chief Strategy Officer and Executive Vice President of Design and Emerging Products.

Scott has also advised 100s of startups and writes a popular newsletter called Implications.

I spoke to Scott about:

Why the talent stack is collapsing and what you can do about it

How to improve the first-mile experience of your product

The 4P framework for building generative AI products

Scott is a leader who obsesses about customer empathy and keeping high performing teams as small as possible. If you enjoy our conversation, please like and subscribe to support the podcast.

Timestamps:

(00:00) Why empathy must come before vision
(02:02) How the talent stack is collapsing
(04:50) How employees can prep for smaller teams and AI
(07:00) The ideal design to PM relationship is they’re the same person
(13:50) Improve the first-mile experience of a product
(19:00) Principles for building AI products at Adobe
(22:47) How to talk to people who are anti-AI
(25:25) The 4P framework for navigating AI products

Where to find me:

Newsletter: https://creatoreconomy.so/

📌 Subscribe to this channel – more interviews coming soon!

My guest today is Ethan Evans, former VP at Amazon.

Ethan rose to VP at Amazon over 15 years and then retired to make $700,000 teaching product leaders while only working 20 hours a week.

Ethan and I talked about:

The magic loop to level up at any company and how to get unstuck

How to systematically build trust with leadership

How to build a $700K+ business while working part time

Ethan is an incredible career coach and product leader. If you enjoy our conversation, please like and subscribe to support the podcast.

Timestamps:

(00:00) Why trust is built more in negative events

(02:11) The Magic Loop framework to grow your career

(04:46) Where people get stuck in the Magic Loop

(07:09) How to ask your manager for constructive feedback

(11:02) The #1 thing that leaders need to do well

(16:38) How to build a strong relationship with your manager

(22:51) How Ethan built trust by taking a risk to disagree with his SVP

(29:41) How NVIDIA succeeded by simply surviving

(31:28) How Ethan recovered from failing Jeff Bezos

(37:39) Making $700K a year in retirement as a creator

(44:31) Every tech person should be doing this

Where to find me:

Newsletter: https://creatoreconomy.so/

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My guest today is Paul Adams, Chief Product Officer of Intercom.

When ChatGPT launched, Paul and the Intercom team blew up their roadmap to go all in on AI. Since then, they’ve built an AI-first customer service suite that can provide accurate answers to customers 24/7.

Paul and I spoke about:

1. How PMs and designers can skill up on AI and get hired to work on AI products

2. Why you may not want to start with the problem when building AI products

3. How Intercom blew up its roadmap to build an AI chatbot that can resolve 50% of support queries without a human

Paul is a thoughtful product leader – be sure to subscribe if you enjoy our conversation.

Timestamps: (00:00) Will AI make us dumber and lazier?
(01:32) How PMs and designers can skill up on AI
(05:05) AI will further separate great vs. mediocre PMs
(09:00) The rise of “AI PMs” and how to learn without the BS
(13:44) What Paul looks for when hiring people to work on AI
(16:32) How building AI products is different
(21:05) Why is customer support so terrible
(26:48) How AI will transform customer support
(31:03) Will AI hurt customer support jobs?
(33:00) Why AI products challenge “start with the customer problem”
(38:26) Think big, start small, ship to learn
(46:08) Closing words for advice for building in the age of AI

Where to find me:

Newsletter: https://creatoreconomy.so/

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My guest today is Alex Cornell, Director of Design at Meta AI.

Alex is one of the best product designers I’ve ever worked with. He helped design Facebook, Substack, Linear, and an app for family and friends called Cocoon.

We talked about:

- Lessons from designing at Meta, Substack, and Linear

- How interface design will change with generative AI

- How anyone can start learning design right now

This interview is a must-watch if you’re interested in design at all. If you enjoy our conversation, please like and subscribe to support the podcast.

Timestamps:

(00:00) How to build good design taste

(01:44) The #1 mistake that designers make

(04:09) How to start designing a new product

(15:02) Lessons from designing Substack and Linear’s mobile apps

(23:35) Ideal design environment - big companies or startups?

(26:17) Balancing North Star vs. what’s shipping next

(32:42) How Alex uses AI in his personal life

(39:17) 3 ways for anyone to learn how to design

Where to find Alex:

https://twitter.com/alexcornell

https://www.alexcornell.com/

Get the takeaways:

https://creatoreconomy.so/p/alex-cornell-best-designer-that-i-worked-with

My guest today is Yuhki Yamashita, Chief Product Officer of Figma.

Yuhki and I talked about how Figma:

- Created a culture where employees love their craft

- Builds AI products to solve real user problems

- Plans to make design accessible to everyone

Yuhki is a great storyteller and shares an inside look at how Figma’s amazing product culture works. If you enjoy our conversation, please like and subscribe to support the podcast.

Get the takeaways: https://creatoreconomy.so/p/yuhki-inside-how-figma-built-figjam-ai

Timestamps :

(00:00) How PMs should collaborate with designers

(04:00) How to hire people who care about craft

(05:20) Balancing craft with moving metrics and optics

(07:43) Tips to get better at storytelling

(10:52) How Figjam evolved from Figma

(12:45) Why fun is a pillar for Figma products

(16:59) Evaluating AI use cases for Figjam

(19:01) Quality is everything with AI products

(24:31) How to balance power user and new user needs

(29:24) Best way for PMs to learn design

(31:45) Embracing AI in work and creativity

Where to find me:

Newsletter: https://creatoreconomy.so/

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My guest today is Dan Siroker, CEO of Limitless.

In just 24 hours after launch, Dan and team sold over 10,000 AI pendants to help people augment their memory with what they’ve seen, said, and heard - making Limitless arguably the fastest growing AI wearable in the market.

In this short interview, Dan and I talked about:

- His journey to create the world’s most wearable AI

- How the team ships fast without compromising quality

- How he manages his time with 3 kids

Dan also co-founded Optimizely and is one of my favorite entrepreneurs to follow. If you enjoy our conversation, please like and subscribe to support the podcast.

Timestamps:

(00:00) Why Dan started Limitless
(02:19) Dan’s experience of losing his hearing
(03:12) Exploring the idea maze of personal AI
(04:55) Why the team decided to build an AI wearable
(06:40) How someone’s life could change with Limitless
(11:10) How to ship fast but still keep a high quality bar
(13:34) How to decide what scope to focus on
(15:45) How to attract and hire great talent
(17:47) Why you should hire slow
(19:12) Dan’s thoughts on product management
(20:55) Balancing entrepreneurship and family

Where to find me:

Newsletter: https://creatoreconomy.so/

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My guest today is Wes Kao, co-founder of Maven, a very popular online course platform.

Wes and I talked about how to create, market, and teach an online course and make $20,000 or more per cohort. I especially love Wes’ frameworks about how to:

Build a spiky point of view to stand out with real examples

And use the state change method to keep people interested

Timestamps:

00:00 Spiky point of view

01:11 Introducing Wes Cao and the Power of Online Courses

01:42 Wes Cao's Journey: From Marketing to Maven Co-Founder

04:00 The Rise of Cohort-Based Learning with Maven

06:16 Empowering Operators to Share Their Expertise

10:03 Creating Your Course: Market Demand Meets Passion

13:51 The Essence of a Spiky Point of View

18:51 Leveraging Spiky Points of View for Course Creation

21:31 Unlocking Creative Writing: Beyond Traditional Controls

22:00 The Power of Risk in Sharing Bold Ideas

22:07 Content Creation: The Unpredictable Success of Authenticity

22:20 Decoding the Secret Formula of Viral Content

22:26 A Decade of Blogging: The Evolution of a Writer

22:50 Marketing First, Building Later: A New Approach

23:03 Case Study: Shivani Berry's Path to Course Success

24:24 Expanding Reach: Leveraging Other Audiences

27:39 Selling While Teaching: The Subtle Art

29:38 Engaging Cohort Courses: The State Change Method

32:18 Simplifying the Creator's Journey: Focus and Strategy

38:33 Closing Advice and Resources for Aspiring Creators

Where to find me:

Newsletter: https://creatoreconomy.so/

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My guest today is Brian Balfour, CEO of Reforge. Brian and I did a deep dive into how 4 of the best AI products grew so fast.

We spoke about:

Why ChatGPT is investing in custom GPTs

How Midjourney grew to $200M ARR despite an interface that relies on Discord

How Perplexity is competing with Google Search

How LinkedIn collaborative articles combine AI and user growth loops

Brian is one of the best growth leaders out there so I hope you enjoy our conversation. Consider subscribing for more great interviews every week.

Timestamps:

[00:00] The decline of Google Search [02:13] Why no one should try to copy ChatGPT's growth [04:33] Many AI products struggle with retention [07:39] Why OpenAI is investing in custom GPTs [13:56] How Midjourney grew to $200M ARR off Discord [21:22] Hardcore AI users vs. casual AI users [21:49] Perplexity's challenge to Google Search [25:12] The SEO industry is a mess [29:22] Growth loops fueling LinkedIn's collaborative articles [35:08] How AI will impact the growth profession

Where to find me:

Newsletter: https://creatoreconomy.so/

📌 Subscribe to this channel – more interviews coming soon!

My guest today is Jackie Bavaro, author of Cracking the PM Career and Cracking the PM Interview, two of the most popular books on product management out there. Jackie was also head of PM at Asana.

I spoke to Jackie about:

1. How to be more strategic

2. How to define a great vision and strategy for your team

3. How to communicate your strategy to the rest of the company

There are so many misconceptions about strategy, but Jackie makes everything crystal clear. Consider subscribing for more great interviews every week.

Chapter timestamps:

[00:00] Three parts of a great product strategy

[02:56] A personal story on why strategy matters

[07:05] Vision, strategic framework, and roadmap

[10:29] When to start thinking about strategy

[13:35] How to bring your vision to life

[16:47] Breaking down the strategic framework

[17:13] Master the framework for market domination

[22:04] Think of a roadmap like a charcuterie board

[25:09] A checklist is not a strategy

[29:11] How to get exec buy-in for your strategy

[31:54] Communicate principles to guide decisions

Where to find me:

Newsletter: https://creatoreconomy.so/

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My guests today are Sanchan (ex-general manager at Airbnb), Nickey (Product Director at Duolingo) and John (Senior Director at Toast).

We talked about:

1. How the PM role is changing

2. Our favorite PM use cases for AI

3. How to avoid PM title envy to pick your own path

Over 200 people tuned into this conversation live so I think you’ll love it too.

Chapter Timestamps

• [00:00] Less internal shenanigans, more customer focus

• [03:30] Why companies are tired of product managers

• [07:44] Thoughts on Airbnb merging products with marketing

• [10:25] How Airbnb builds products using narratives

• [13:09] Designing the right incentives for PMs

• [17:03] How Duolingo incentivizes PMs to focus on customer obsession

• [18:34] Why more PMs should pursue building vs. manager

• [22:01] How the PM and design relationship is evolving

• [26:08] Getting hired in today's tough tech jobs market

• [29:41] How to ramp up on AI and get your hands dirty

• [32:55] Favorite AI use cases for PM

• [36:25] How to think about what you want in the PM career ladder

• [41:15] How to talk to users to get useful feedback

• [42:25] How to be a great product leader in post-ZIRP era

• [45:27] Your number one career skill is how to smell out orgs

Where to find me:

Newsletter: https://creatoreconomy.so/

📌 Subscribe to this channel – more interviews coming soon!

Elena Verna is a solopreneur who has served as head of growth at Dropbox, Amplitude, Miro, and more. Elena and I talked about: 1. Why she left a full-time role to work for herself 2. The five laws of growth and how they can be applied to careers 3. Her advice for people who want to explore solopreneurship Elena is incredibly inspiring and I think you’ll love our conversation. Brought to you by: • Amplitude – Get the free product-led growth guide: https://bit.ly/498xoLz Chapter timestamps:

[00:00] Make imposter syndrome your superpower

[01:10] Elena's journey from entry-level to executive

[03:00] Finding exponential growth paths in your career

[07:00] What led Elena to explore solopreneurship

[09:59] The benefits of advisory roles

[12:33] Step by step on how to get started advising

[15:18] Pitching to a company why advising is better than full-time

[18:19] How Elena applies growth loops to her business

[22:18] The five laws of growth and how they apply to your career

[26:48] Learn how to fail to learn how to win

[28:31] Build career optionality to not be at the whim of companies

[31:29] Your business needs clear positioning ("why you?") Where to find Elena: X: https://twitter.com/ElenaVerna LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elenaverna/ Get the interview takeaways: https://creatoreconomy.so/p/elena-verna-growth-to-solopreneur

Kaz Neyatian is the Chief Operating Officer of Shopify. Kaz and I spoke about about: 1. Why traditional career ladders are broken 2. Why strategy is the least important part of building products 3. Why Shopify canceled all recurring meetings. I think this interview will feel like therapy if you’ve worked at big tech companies. Brought to you by: • Figma–My favorite design suite for creators and teams https://psxid.figma.com/qyj56p0lygjt Chapter timestamps: [00:00] Nobody ever dreamed of sitting in meetings [01:15] The difference between crafters and managers [02:31] Traditional career ladders just don't work [04:36] Our job is to rage against being a big company [05:43] Strategy is the least meaningful aspect of product [07:15] People misunderstand how great products are built [09:57] We're not an OKR company [11:23] Why there are so few good product managers [12:25] Operation Chaos Monkey to remove meetings [15:26] Why managers need to value their personal craft time [16:06] Why there are always no meeting rooms available [18:22] How to reduce meetings on your calendar [21:02] Just because someone else does it is a bad reason [23:33] The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing Where to find Kaz: X: https://twitter.com/CanadaKaz LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kasranejatian/ Get the interview takeaways: https://creatoreconomy.so/p/kaz-coo-shopify-craft-and-no-meetings Try Figma for free: https://psxid.figma.com/qyj56p0lygjt 📌 Subscribe to this channel – more interviews coming soon!

Fareed Mosavat is a growth veteran who has worked at Reforge, Slack, Instacart, Pixar, and other top companies. We had some real talk about how to: 1. Cross the chasm from product manager to product leader 2. Not confuse the work behind the work with the actual work 3. Look beyond traditional job titles to chart your own career path Fareed is one of my favorite product leaders and I think you’ll love our conversation. Brought to you by: Figma–My favorite design tool for creators and teams: https://psxid.figma.com/qyj56p0lygjt Chapter timestamps: 00:00 Focus on the work that actually matters 02:17 The PM to product leader chasm 06:21 The manager death spiral 08:49 Rethinking PM roles 10:44 How small teams can achieve big results 16:17 Why PM performance theater needs to end 19:29 Designing the right incentives for PM orgs 24:34 Why Fareed chose impact over titles 28:33 How to find work that you love 34:19 Why external exec hires often don't work out 39:00 How to be your own customer Where to find Fareed: X: https://twitter.com/far33d LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fareed/ Get the interview takeaways: https://creatoreconomy.so/p/fareed-real-talk-about-the-pm-career 📌 Subscribe to this channel – more interviews coming soon!

Claire Vo is the Chief Product Officer of LaunchDarkly and ex-CPO of Color and Optimizely. Claire believes that it’s never been a better time to be a strong IC PM and has built a career ladder where the best individual contributors report directly to the C-suite. We spoke about: 1. Why PM performance theater needs to end 2. How to pursue the super IC PM career path 3. How IC PMs can use AI to excel at their job Claire had so many hot takes throughout and I think you’ll love our interview. Chapter timestamps: 00:00 Welcome Claire 01:39 The Importance of the IC Path 04:08 The Limitations of Frameworks 05:20 Designing a Better Ladder for PMs 09:39 The Changing Landscape for PMs 11:55 Why Fast Beats Right 16:20 The Coaches, Captains, and Players Framework 19:16 Traits of Great ICs 23:55 Protecting Craft Time 28:48 The Chat PRD and AI Journey 33:13 The Future of PMs with AI Where to find Claire: X: https://twitter.com/clairevo LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairevo/ Get the interview takeaways: https://creatoreconomy.so/p/claire-vo-why-its-time-for-ic-product-manager Try Figma for free: https://psxid.figma.com/qyj56p0lygjt 📌 Subscribe to this channel - more videos coming soon!