Chuck DeGroat’s name has become somewhat synonymous with work on narcissism in the church. But as he and Steve Cuss discuss, DeGroat is devoted to shining a light on wholeheartedness and internal integration.  

DeGroat and Cuss talk about anxiety—specifically around dying—and the way that age often brings with it a concern for one’s legacy. They talk about experiencing pain through work in church settings, noticing emotions that arise in ourselves and others, and coming home to God and ourselves—all while considering the impact of secondary trauma on people in pastoral and helping professions, ways to distinguish between shutdown and rest, and our response to the invitation of God.

Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guests include:

• Chuck DeGroat
• Healing What’s Within: Coming Home to Yourself—and to God—When You’re Wounded, Weary, and Wandering by Chuck DeGroat
• Wholeheartedness: Busyness, Exhaustion, and Healing the Divided Self by Chuck DeGroat
• When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse by Chuck DeGroat 
• “Narcissism In The Chair” 
• Internal Family Systems model
• The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs and Experience of God by Steve Cuss
• Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs by Steve Cuss
• “Always Beginners” by Thomas Merton
• Experimental Theology with Richard Beck
• The Enneagram
• Jesus, My Father, the CIA, and Me: A Memoir … of Sorts by Ian Morgan Cron

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Brandi Wilson was happily raising her three sons with her pastor husband—that is, until he decided to leave their marriage, their family, and the church they had invested in for years. 

Close friends and leadership coaches Brandi Wilson and Lori Wilhite share how they weathered Wilson’s devastating loss together. They talk about the particular struggles of being a pastor’s wife and the heartbreak of feeling like someone else is controlling your life circumstances. They discuss managing anxiety, bearing one another’s burdens, and healing even when restoration does not occur. 

They also share about the community they run together—Leading and Loving It—and why, despite all the hard things, they still love the church. 

Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guests include:

• Brandi Wilson
• Lori Wilhite
• Leading and Loving It
• Friedman’s Fables by Ed Friedman
• The Enneagram
• Philippians: Chasing Happy by Lori Wilhite

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Beth Moore is sure of one thing: In God, nothing is wasted. 

On this episode, Cuss and Moore talk about the trauma and trials she has faced, including her experience of being abused as a child, leaving the Southern Baptist Convention after devoting much of her life to it, and walking alongside her husband, Keith, as he navigates bipolar disorder. They discuss how Moore decided to share more of their story in her memoir and the ways God has ministered to people through that vulnerability. 

Tune in for an episode that speaks to God’s faithfulness in trauma, how Moore remains playful in the face of hardship, and what her recent back surgery taught her about how deeply God loves his children. 

Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include:

• All My Knotted-Up Life: A Memoir by Beth Moore
• Living Proof Ministries
• Greenlights by Matthew McConaughey 
• Surrender: 40 Songs, One Story by Bono
• 
  

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Have you ever walked into a room and immediately sensed anxiety between two people? Or maybe you’ve entered into a challenging conversation and have barely been able to hear it over the thunder of your heartbeat. Perhaps you’ve received a “we need to talk” text and felt your stomach drop with dread. 

These types of experiences—and reactions to them—are common, yet we often lack the tools to name or address them. On this episode of Being Human, Steve and Lisa Cuss introduce a tool called the Four Spaces that is designed to help us do just that. They explain the four spaces where anxiety shows up and offer wisdom and insight for engaging with each of them. Their conversation covers taking responsibility for our emotions, releasing our desire to control others, and relaxing in God’s presence.

 Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include:

• The Four Spaces
• 24-7 Prayer Tools

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Why would a loving God send people to hell?

When you hear the word apologetics, that’s likely the type of question that comes to mind. But Lisa Fields, one of the world’s most sought-after Christian apologists and the author of When Faith Disappoints, says there are often much more personal inquiries beneath those intellectual inquiries. 

In this episode, Fields and Cuss talk about pastors’ kids, pain points, and perfect love. They discuss the importance of listening when it comes to challenging faith conversations and consider the ways that the church can become a place of refuge. Fields shares how the Jude 3 Project, which she founded, is helping the Black Christian community know what they believe and why. This episode covers trauma, chronic anxiety, and the healing that is only found in Jesus.

Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include:

• When Faith Disappoints: The Gap Between What We Believe and What We Experience by Lisa Fields
• Jude 3 Project
• Unspoken
• Juneteenth: Faith & Freedom
• Why I Don’t Go
• Leo Percer
• Tertullian
• Athanasius

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Around 250,000 people walk some portion of the Camino de Santiago, a 500-mile network of ancient pilgrim routes in Spain, each year. In 2016, Brian and Peri Zahnd became two of those people, and it’s marked their lives ever since.

On this episode, host Steve Cuss talks with the Zahnds about the ways that the pilgrimage shaped their perspectives on life and faith. The three discuss pastoring, political participation, and peace in Jesus. Their conversation also covers the Zahnds’ books, ministry, and marriage. 

Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guests include:

• Brian Zahnd
• Every Scene By Heart: A Camino de Santiago Memoir by Peri Zahnd
• Word of Life Church
• Camino de Santiago
• Faith, Hope, and Carnage by Nick Cave and Seán O’Hagan
• The Way
• Scot McKnight
• Paul Among the People: The Apostle Reinterpreted and Reimagined in His Own Time by Sarah Ruden
• Albergues on the Camino
• The Wood Between the Worlds: A Poetic Theology of the Cross by Brian Zahnd

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Humility isn’t just deferring to the desires of others. It’s also standing up for the weak. 

So says Dennis Edwards, vice president for church relations and dean of the seminary at North Park University, on this episode of Being Human. Cuss and Edwards talk about how Edwards’s many experiences of being the only Black man in the room have shaped him and his perspective. They talk about thoughtful and biblical approaches to theological education, the modern political landscape, and social media. And Cuss and Edwards consider how, for all of its flaws and challenges, the local church can offer unity in a way entirely its own.

Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include:

• RevDrDre.com
• Humility Illuminated: The Biblical Path Back to Christian Character by Dennis R. Edwards 
• 1 Peter (The Anchor Yale Bible Commentaries) by John H. Elliott
• The Urban Christian: Effective Ministry in Today’s Urban World by Ray Bakke
• Bowen family systems theory

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The Bear is a show about cooking, kitchens, and Chicago. But for anyone who has watched more than an episode or two, it’s clear there’s more to the story.

On this special episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss looks at seven core themes in the hit FX show The Bear. Through the lens of systems theory and anxiety theory, Cuss considers the false needs and beliefs revealed in the show’s characters. He examines their contagious anxiety, sheds light on their conflict patterns, and considers what the show has to say about relationships. Diving into everything from untamed ambition to unprocessed trauma, Cuss ponders the deeply human moments that keep viewers returning to The Bear.

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On this episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss welcomes Alan Briggs, the founder of Stay Forth, a coaching organization that focuses on leader health and sustainable impact. Briggs’s latest book, AntiBurnout, empowers readers to avoid the perils of burnout and offers practical ways to measure one’s own health and well-being. 

Cuss and Briggs discuss the back-to-school anxiety that so many families face, how our individual wiring contributes to our unique anxiety triggers, and how to navigate modern political life. Their discussion includes tips and tools for identifying the skills, gifts, and abilities that can lead us away from resentment and toward rest. 

Resources mentioned during this episode include:

• The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs and Experience of God by Steve Cuss
• God, Christ and Us by Herbert McCabe
• AntiBurnout: A Lighter Way to Live and Lead in a Heavy World by Alan Briggs
• Stay Forth
• Dr. Wes Beavis
• The 6 Types of Working Genius: A Better Way to Understand Your Gifts, Your Frustrations, and Your Team by Patrick Lencioni
• The Enneagram
• Capable Life

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The Sermon on the Mount is beautiful. It’s also hard.

On this episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss welcomes his friend, the pastor and author Rich Villodas. The two discuss Villodas’ new book, The Narrow Path, which focuses on the Matthew text. Villodas and Cuss discuss false needs, the longing for the good life, and what it means that God only dwells in reality.

Resources mentioned during this episode include:

• New Life Fellowship Church
• The Deeply Formed Life: Five Transformative Values to Root Us in the Way of Jesus by Rich Villodas
• Good and Beautiful and Kind: Becoming Whole in a Fractured World by Rich Villodas
• The Narrow Path: How the Subversive Way of Jesus Satisfies Our Soulsby Rich Villodas
• God, Christ and Us by Herbert McCabe
• Faith Within Reason by Herbert McCabe
• The Ragamuffin Gospel: Good News for the Bedraggled, Beat-Up, and Burnt Out by Brennan Manning
• Pete Scazzero

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“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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“I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.”

So says Paul in Romans 7, and so, it seems, says the character of Riley in Disney and Pixar’s Inside Out 2. On a special episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss and his wife, therapist Lisa Cuss, explore what the film has to say about being human.

They talk about the film in terms of the internal family systems model and family systems theory. Ultimately, they consider what it looks like to notice parts of ourselves while remembering our core identity in Christ.

Resources mentioned in this episode include:

• Inside Out
• Inside Out 2
• Internal family systems model
• Bowen family systems theory
• Richard Schwartz
• Capable Life
• “Put Yourself on Your Conscious List of Relationships”

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There are different kinds of anxiety, but there is one type of anxiety that always feels real in the moment when it is not. Unlike acute anxiety which is always based on a real threat, like when you have to swerve to avoid a car, chronic anxiety is always based on a false threat. Like making everyone happy, or doing it perfectly every time or always needing to be there for others. 

In this episode Steve and Lisa dig into what do you think you need that you don’t really need? And they also help you identify the big 5 sources of false anxiety. 

Steve’s latest book explores the gap between our belief and our experience. 

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Are you on your own conscious list of relationships?

If not, this episode is for you. Host Steve Cuss is joined by his wife, Lisa, to chat about putting yourself on your conscious list of relationships, responding to your inner critic, and three simple ways to diffuse anxiety in any situation. Steve and Lisa discuss the Enneagram, opportunities for individual and collective growth, and how connecting with God can improve our sense of self.

This episode offers tangible practices for those who want to improve all types of relationships. These tools and more are featured in Steve’s latest book The Expectation Gap.

Visit Stevecusswords.com to access free courses that go along with this episode.

Being Human will be on hiatus until August 18th. In the meantime, would you consider leaving a written review of Being Human or sharing this episode with someone you think might benefit? We really appreciate your support!

Resources mentioned in this episode include:

• The Enneagram
• “Brené Brown on Comparative Suffering, the 50/50 Myth, and Settling the Ball”
• Steve’s Free Courses

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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Love isn’t meant to be conditional, especially when it comes to our understanding of how God loves us. But this episode’s guest—pastor, author, and podcaster Luke Norsworthy—says we’re far too normalized to the idea that love is contingent upon how we practice our faith, obey, and function in general.

On this episode, Norsworthy and Cuss talk about whether or not the phrase “unconditional love” is redundant. They consider how family language can be misused and what it might look like to become more integrated in our lives. They talk about the parable of the prodigal son, what it is to be acquainted with grief as a believer, and how to process disappointment. Their conversation also covers celebrity pastors, loneliness, and the value of vulnerability.

The Expectation Gap by Steve Cuss is now available—order here!

Resources mentioned in this episode include:

• Luke Norsworthy
• Norsworthy
• How to Love the Life You Already Have: A Guide to Becoming the Person Life is Demanding You Be by Luke Norsworthy
• Craft and Character with Luke Norsworthy
• Herbert McCabe
• The Prayers of the People 
• Pepperdine University
• Grieve, Breathe, Receive: Finding a Faith Strong Enough to Hold Us by Steve Carter
• Curt Thompson

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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How can people connect with others without merging into them or letting them take over? How can we differentiate ourselves from one another while remaining connected in meaningful ways? 

These are some of the questions that Being Human host Steve Cuss poses to his guests, Grace Liu and Cory Elisabeth. The founders of Pursue Inner Growth, a coaching and counseling service in Indonesia, Liu and Elisabeth share rich and nuanced thoughts on how culture, place, and heritage shape who we are.

Cuss speaks with Liu and Elisabeth about the unique challenges Southeast Asians face, the difference between an individualistic culture and a communal one, and how people can deal with both individual and communal shame. Their conversation covers some of the variances in Western and Asian psychology, such as what the idea of setting boundaries looks like in different cultures. Liu and Elisabeth walk through case studies of difficult interpersonal situations, discuss the implications of honor-shame culture, and share what they, as Indonesian women, wish that Cuss knew as a white man.

The Expectation Gap by Steve Cuss is now available—order here!

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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Artist. Theologian. Immigrant.

These are the three words that come to mind for host Steve Cuss when he thinks of his guest, Phuc (Phu) Luu. On this episode, Luu responds to each of those terms, sharing how they make up who he is. 

Cuss and Luu discuss what it means to take refuge and the meaning to be found in the fact that Jesus himself had to take sanctuary. They talk about art as a way to depict one's inner world and what motivates Luu to paint. Luu also reacts to the image of King Charles’ new portrait in real-time on the episode (which was recorded before the vandalization of the portrait by activists). 

They also discuss Luu’s book Jesus of the East and its themes, including broken harmony, the restoration of Shalom, and the Korean term “han,” which means a sense of woundedness that is so deep there is no English equivalent. Luu also vulnerably shares what it’s like to be the only Vietnamese or minority culture person in the room. 

Tune in for an episode that tenderly and powerfully considers ethnicity, belonging, and the Jesus who understands everything about who we are.

The Expectation Gap by Steve Cuss is now available—order here!

Resources mentioned in this episode include: 

• Phuc Luu
• People of the Way: Phuc Luu’s Notebook 
• Jesus of the East: Reclaiming the Gospel for the Wounded by Phuc Lu
• Irenaeus of Lyons
• Andrew Sung Park
• Francis Bacon
• King Charles’ portrait

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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How many minutes per week do you think you can be exactly yourself?

That’s the question that host Steve Cuss poses at the beginning of this episode, and it takes on specific meaning as he converses with his guest, Marvin Williams. Williams is the lead pastor of Trinity Church in Lansing, Michigan, and is currently earning his doctorate in systems theory, particularly as it pertains to the African-American experience. His forthcoming dissertation, My Whole Black Self, considers what it’s like to be exactly yourself and what happens when people cannot be exactly themselves. 

Cuss and Williams discuss what drew Williams to systems theory, how leadership starts with personal transformation, and what it looks like to live in one’s identity fully. They talk about bullying, anxiety, and the Black writers, thinkers, and experts who have influenced Williams’ perspective. The two discuss connectedness, what it’s like to be in majority culture spaces, and how calmness is not always the opposite of anxiety. Their discussion also explores violence against Black Americans, the nuances of pastoring, and the role of politics in the life of the church. 

The Expectation Gap by Steve Cuss is now available—order here!

Resources mentioned in this episode include: 

• Marvin Williams
• A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix by Edwin H. Friedman
• Murray Bowen
• Bowen family systems theory
• Trisha Taylor
• “To Belong to One Another: Remaining Calm and Curious in Times of High Anxiety” with Rich Villodas
• The Souls of Black Folk from W.E.B. Du Bois
• Psychological Storms: The African American Struggle for Identity by Thomas Parham
• Charlie Dates
• Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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Gender dynamics in the workplace.

What to do when you’re the only one of your kind in the room.

The power dynamics and damage of the #MeToo and #ChurchToo scandals.

These are some of the heavy topics that Steve Cuss and his guest, leadership development expert Kadi Cole, consider on this episode of Being Human. Their conversation draws upon Cole’s years spent developing women leaders and working with diverse teams as one of the world’s foremost leaders in helping organizations navigate healthy gender dynamics.

Cuss and Cole talk about the ways people camouflage themselves to fit into a group, how men and women handle inner confidence differently, and what it looks like to be ourselves in Christ. Their discussion covers how leaders can cultivate safe environments that allow people to show up as they are, the effects of powerful leaders with unaddressed childhood wounds, and how Cole’s background as a nurse prepared her to engage executive leadership with a holistic perspective.

They also talk about Momentum Marketplace, Cole’s new initiative to help young, kingdom-minded leaders be mentored in the marketplace.

The Expectation Gap by Steve Cuss is now available!

Resources mentioned in this episode include:

• Kadi ColeDeveloping Female Leaders: Navigate the Minefields and Release the Potential of Women in Your Church by Kadi Cole
• Find Your Leadership Voice in 90 Days: How to show up, speak up, and stand out with confidence by Kadi Cole
• “Code switching, covering, masking and social camouflage”
• Momentum Marketplace
• The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs and Experience of God by Steve Cuss

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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Is the gospel primarily preventative or redemptive? What did Jesus emphasize between the two? 

In this episode of Being Human, Steve is joined by his wife, the Friendly Neighborhood Therapist, Lisa, to consider these questions. They talk about faith gaps, how human development affects the ways we approach faith, and comparing ourselves to the pillars of the faith.

Cuss also reads from his upcoming book, The Expectation Gap, which releases on May 28th. Listeners can preorder here. Get your preorder bonuses here!

Resources mentioned in this episode include: 

• The Gap
• “Grieve, Breathe, Receive” with Steve Carter
• Camino De Santiago
• John F. Kennedy, Jr. playing under the Resolute Desk 
• The Crown
• Get Out of My Life, but First Could You Drive Me & Cheryl to the Mall: A Parent's Guide to the New Teenager by Anthony E. Wolf
• Aurora Leigh by Elizabeth Barrett Browning
• The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs and Experience of God by Steve Cuss
• Preorder bonuses for The Expectation Gap

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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Steve Cuss has a special burden for pastors and church staff. As someone who spent 27 years in such roles, he knows the unique challenges personally. On this episode, Cuss shares some of his own journey, including how he struggled with conflating his identities as a child of God and what felt like being an employee of God.

Cuss talks about the gap between what we believe about God and what we experience from God. He guides listeners through the story of Peter walking on water (Matt. 14). Cuss discusses peace, freedom, and love, inviting us to help our body align with our head beliefs so we can relax into God’s presence.

Cuss also reads from his upcoming book, The Expectation Gap, releasing May 28, which listeners can preorder here. Preorder bonuses are available here.

Resources mentioned in this episode include:

• Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs by Steve Cuss
• “From a Distance”
• Matthew 14
• The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs and Experience of God by Steve Cuss
• Preorder bonuses for The Expectation Gap

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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“Did you have integrity today?”

That’s the question that Steve Carter, author, podcaster, and former lead teaching pastor of Willow Creek Community Church, pictured his son asking him when allegations of sexual harassment against Bill Hybels emerged. Carter realized he couldn’t go “play church.” He had to take the allegations seriously and act with integrity, which, for him, looked like resigning.

On this episode of Being Human, Cuss and Carter discuss what it looks like to have integrity when mentors and institutions fail us. They talk about the heartbreak of losing beloved communities, navigating relationships when people feel betrayed, and how difficult it is to see broken systems when inside them. 

Carter shares how he has dealt with the weight of being misunderstood, the way some of his highest values were wielded against him, and what it was like to deal with public loss and accusation as an Enneagram Three. He and Cuss talk about the power of the resurrection and the two Greek words that became an anchor for Carter. And they discuss what propelled Carter to write Grieve, Breathe, Receive—a stunning memoir on grief and healing that recounts Carter leaving Willow Creek Church, entering a wilderness season, and enduring loss upon loss upon loss, from income and reputation to precious family members and more.

Resources mentioned in this episode include: 

• Luke: Interpretation: A Bible Commentary for Teaching and Preaching by Fred B. Craddock
• Steve Carter
• Craft & Character with Steve Carter
• Grieve, Breathe, Receive: Finding a Faith Strong Enough to Hold Us by Steve Carter
• The Thing Beneath the Thing: What's Hidden Inside (and What God Helps Us Do About It) by Steve Carter
• Willow Creek Community Church
• “Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs” 
• “Cadet Prayer”
• Annie F. Downs
• Ira Glass
• Camino De Santiago
• “What Is a Verbatim?”
• Compassion International
• “Welcoming Practice”
• The Worst James Harden Flops

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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A systems theorist walks into an organization and orders playfulness and earnestness.

This isn’t just a silly take on a joke format—it’s a tested method of determining whether or not teams have what it takes to go the distance. As host Steve Cuss explains on this episode of Being Human, too much seriousness on a team tends to lead to rigidity, but playful teams tend to be able to handle ambiguity and challenges. 

Could the same be true for worship?

Sometimes we get too earnest and everything gets rigid. In this episode Steve looks at the power of playfulness in your people, how ot notice when things are getting too earnest and stuck and the relationship between playfulness and worship. Steve also teaches us how to use a Life Giving List to help us relax into God’s presence. You can download a life giving list template here. 

Tune in for an episode that invites us to treasure our faith through playful presence with God.

Click here to pre order Steve’s new book.

Resources mentioned in this episode include: 

• Bowen family systems theory
• Death by Meeting: A Leadership Fable About Solving the Most Painful Problem in Business by Patrick Lencioni
• Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton
• “Letter XLVI” by Saint Bernard of Clairvaux
• The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs and Experience of God by Steve Cuss
• Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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“Jesus cares for our troubles, but they don’t worry him.” 

So says Alan Fadling, who joins host Steve Cuss on this episode of Being Human. Fadling is an author and the leader of Unhurried Living, a non-profit that trains people to rest deeper, live fuller and lead better. His latest book, The Non-Anxious Life, draws from spiritual formation and touches on systems theory, as well. 

Cuss and Fadling discuss the ways that anxiety is not just a personal dynamic, but an organizational one. They consider what Dallas Willard had to say about anxiety and peace, how anxiety communicates that God is not there for us, and what it may look like to remember that Jesus is present with us. They talk about the differences in believing that “I am anxiety” and “I have anxiety.” And they consider how anxiety influences leadership, our sense of connection with Jesus, and our engagement with culture. 

Tune in for an episode that sheds light on the way of peace.

Resources mentioned in this episode include: 

• Alan Fadling
• The Non-Anxious Life: Experiencing the Peace of God's Presence by Alan Fadling
• Unhurried Living
• George Doebler
• Bowen family systems theory
• Edwin H. Friedman
• Dallas Willard
• Viktor Frankl

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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If you struggle to keep your thoughts to yourself in the internet age, you’re not alone. On this episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss admits that he struggles with a core belief that sounds something like the world needs my opinion. What are Christians to do in an era when there’s nonstop opportunity to reply, comment, and react? 

On this episode, Cuss welcomes someone he looks up to in this regard: Jay Kim, lead pastor of WestGate Church in San Jose, California and author of several books, including his latest, Listen, Listen, Speak. Kim and Cuss consider the implications of God as infinite and humans as finite and the immensity of eternity. They talk about Kim’s emphasis on listening, formative moments in his faith, and how he believes social media is shaping people. Their conversation covers spiritual practices that can help us remain rooted in a tumultuous era and points to the characteristics of God reflected in creatures and creation. 

Resources mentioned in this episode include: 

• Jay Kim
• WestGate Church
• Analog Church: Why We Need Real People, Places, and Things in the Digital Age
• Analog Christian: Cultivating Contentment, Resilience, and Wisdom in the Digital Age by Jay Y. Kim
• Listen, Listen, Speak: Hearing God and Being Heard in a Noisy World by Jay Y. Kim
• Gravity
• Interstellar
• Neil Postman
• Hate Inc.: Why Today’s Media Makes Us Despise One Another by Matt Taibbi
• The Art Institute of Chicago
• Nighthawks by Edward Hopper
• The Weight of Glory by C.S. Lewis
• Bo Burnham: Inside
• “The Ignatian Examen”
• The Lord’s Prayer
• Andy Crouch
• Joshua Tree

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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So much of our experience is shaped by what gets passed down to us. Whether it's trauma, wisdom, or a signature hair color, traits and knowledge travel from generation to generation.

On this episode of Being Human, Steve Cuss welcomes George Dobeler, the chaplain who first passed down the concept of family systems theory to Cuss. Doebler and Cuss talk about Doebler's learning from Murray Bowen, who founded the theory. They discuss the importance of understanding one’s family system when it comes to diffusing anxiety. Doebler and Cuss provide real-life examples of systems theory helping people become less reactive and more in touch with God, themselves, and others. 

Their conversation covers chaplaincy, trauma recovery, and how theology shapes our responses to anxiety.

Resources mentioned in this episode include: 

• Bowen family systems theory
• George Doebler
• Murray Bowen
• Harry Stack Sullivan
• Edwin H. Friedman
• Genogram
• Friedman’s Fables by Edwin H. Friedman
• A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix by Edwin H. Friedman

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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Some of the most beautiful art in existence was born of great trauma and pain. Think of Vincent Van Gogh, for example, or the Psalms written from a hiding place. 

On this episode of Being Human, Steve Cuss welcomes two artists who both know great tragedy and have produced remarkable creative work: Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth. The married couple recently published a book, Why Everything That Doesn't Matter, Matters So Much: The Way of Love in a World of Hurt, and they join Cuss for a discussion of grief, art, and hospitality. Their conversation touches some of the couple’s lowest valleys and highest mountains. They talk about Art House America, which they founded in 1991, and how music and writing have been their companions in times of joy and sorrow. 

Tune in for a vulnerable and rich discussion of marriage, self-reflection, and the hope of Christ in all things. 

Resources mentioned in this episode include: 

• Vincent Van Gogh on Doctor Who
• Charlie Peacock
• Andi Ashworth
• Why Everything That Doesn't Matter, Matters So Much: The Way of Love in a World of Hurt by Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth
• Art House America
• Greenbelt Festival
• Scotty Smith
• Francis and Edith Schaeffer
• My Father’s Crown by Charlie Peacock
• Luci Shaw
• Paranassus Books
• Music & Meaning with Charlie Peacock

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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The workplace can be a setting where people see their worth and have it honored by others. It can also be a hub of discouragement, aimlessness, and a lack of encouragement. 

On this episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss welcomes Jeff Haanen, author of Working from the Inside Out. Haanen, who is the founder of the Denver Faith and Work Institute, sheds light on how inner work can shape outer work and what it looks like to live out Christianity in jobs and careers. He provides listeners with a starting point for thinking theologically about their work and gives pastors some tips for helping their congregants feel seen in their work lives.

Cuss and Haanen talk about dignifying all types of honest work, the value of physical labor, and what it looks like to work unto the Lord when career and passion don’t align. 

Resources mentioned in this episode include: 

• Denver Institute for Faith and Work
• Working from the Inside Out: A Brief Guide to Inner Work That Transforms Our Outer World by Jeff Haanen
• The Center for Faith and Work 
• Lesslie Newbigin
• Charlotte Institute for Faith & Work
• Nashville Institute for Faith and Work
• Made to Flourish
• “God of the Second Shift”
• Treatment Technology
• Babette’s Feast

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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Music is one of the host Steve Cuss’ favorite ways to relax into God’s presence. On this episode he welcomes two artists who help him do just that—Andy Gullahorn and Jill Phillips. A married couple in Nashville, Tennessee, both Andy and Jill are singer-songwriters. Jill also practices as a therapist and Andy has a unique healing ministry. 

The three discuss the power of songs and how the music industry has changed over time. They talk about what it means to pursue “a long obedience in the same direction,” as the late Eugene Peterson put it, and how to pursue work that is faithful and meaningful. They share practices they’d like to see uprooted in the church, as well as those they hope to see implemented. Finally, they share the experiences that generate reactivity in them and how they try to respond with gentleness and godliness. 

Resources mentioned in this episode include: 

• Andy Gullahorn
• Jill Phillips
• Lyle Lovett
• Albert Borghman
• “My City of Ruins” by Bruce Springsteen
• “The Brave One” by Andy Gullahorn
• “Grand Canyon” by Andy Gullahorn
• Justin Timberlake & Chris Stapleton, Country Music Awards, 2015
• Steven Curtis Chapman
• Long Obedience in the Same Direction: Discipleship in an Instant Society by Eugene Peterson
• The Pastor: A Memoir by Eugene Peterson
• Brad Jersak
• Celebrate Recovery
• “Died: Thomas McKenzie, Defender and Definer of Anglicanism” by Daniel Silliman

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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"In Christ, God has come near and has walked with us. The transformation that is other than us has actually come near so that we could be changed and transformed.”

So says pastor and author Geoff Holsclaw as he joins host Steve Cuss on this episode of Being Human. Holsclaw, who cohosts the Embodied Faith podcast and runs Western Seminary’s doctor of ministry program in spiritual formation and relational neuroscience, is deeply interested in how people grow, transform, and connect to God.

On this episode, Holsclaw and Cuss talk about attachment theory, philosophy, and theology. They discuss liturgical practices that shape people and communities and consider how physical bodies relate to one another in spiritual spaces. Their conversation includes Holsclaw’s participation in the Vineyard Movement, what it looks like to combine the charismatic and liturgical, and what drew Holsclaw to brain science.

Tune in for an episode that incorporates all parts of what it means to be human, from the spiritual and emotional to the mental and physical.

Resources mentioned in this episode include:

• Geoff Holsclaw
• Vineyard USA
• Augustine
• Hegel
• Doctor of ministry program at Western Seminary: Spiritual formation and relational neuroscience
• Does God Really Like Me?: Discovering the God Who Wants to Be With Us by Cyd Holsclaw and Geoff Holsclaw
• Embodied Faith podcast
• Richard Foster
• Dallas Willard
• Devotional Classics: Selected Readings for Individuals and Groups by Richard Foster
• Attachment theory
• The Enneagram
• The Change Monster: The Human Forces that Fuel or Foil Corporate Transformation and Changeby Jeanie Daniel Duck

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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Presence has a profound impact on our lives. So does its opposite—absence.

On this episode of Being Human, Steve Cross welcomes author, professor, and public theologian Esau McCaulley. McCaulley’s book Reading While Black is dedicated to his father, which may lead people to believe that they had a close relationship. But, McCaulley says that dedication was his way of declaring, “I forgive you.” 

During their conversation, Cross and McCaulley talk about how the absence of paternal love can shape a child. They discuss how McCaulley’s childhood affects his parenting, the role of humor in processing trauma, and the power of memory. They talk about racism, shame, and the roots of dehumanization. And they consider the presence of God’s love and redemption.

Resources mentioned in this episode include:

• Esau McCaulley
• Reading While Black: African American Biblical Interpretation as an Exercise in Hope by Esau McCaulley
• How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family's Story of Hope and Survival in the American South by Esau McCaulley
• The New Testament in Color: A Multiethnic Bible Commentary by Esau McCaulley
• Horatio Alger
• Marvin Williams
• Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis
• The Reason for God: Belief in an Age of Skepticism by Timothy Keller
• Simply Christian: Why Christianity Makes Sense by N.T. Wright
• The Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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Today on Being Human, it’s all about the Enneagram. 

Steve Cuss welcomes back his friend and colleague Jimmy Carnes for a discussion about the nine types and how they reflect the character of God. Carnes explains the holy idea of each Enneagram type—also known as the nine faces of God—and the ways that we are all striving for one aspect of God to be true. 

Carnes and Cuss discuss the nuances of their types and others. They consider how the Enneagram system can help people identify where they lose connection with God, themselves, and others. And they discuss navigating grief and anxiety as complex humans who are loved by God.

Resources mentioned in this episode include:

• Capable Life
• The Enneagram
• Papillion
• Thomas Keating’s “Programs for Happiness”
• “If Discerning Good & Evil is Good, Why Was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil Bad?” (Greg Boyd, ReKnew)
• I Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For by U2
• History of the World: Part I
• The Good Doctor
• Andy Gullahorn
• Rich Mullins

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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Start paying attention.

Those three words sound simple enough. And yet, just about everyone who has tried to focus on understanding what’s going on inside themselves knows that the process can get tricky pretty fast. Introspection can be as infuriating as it is illuminating.

On this episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss welcomes his dear friend and co-laborer at Capable Life Jimmy Carnes to talk about paying attention. Their conversation covers dehumanization, inner critics, and anxiety. Carnes explains what triangulation is and how Christians can notice and respond to it. He shares some of his own sources of anxiety, how he’s working on addressing them, and how building Lego has become a life-giving habit for him.

Tune in for an episode that is full of tips for growing more connected to God, yourself, and others. And be sure to come back next week as Carnes and Cuss’ describe how the Enneagram, reactivity, and anxiety all fit together, and how the Enneagram can help us connect to God.

Resources mentioned in this episode include:

• Capable Life
• The Enneagram

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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“The reality of trauma is that it’s a perceived experience where we feel like the tools that we have, to cope with what we have experienced, have been exhausted … so those experiences and meaning made get stuck in our bodies.”

So says Lisa Cuss, therapist and wife of Steve Cuss, on this episode of Being Human. Lisa and Steve talk about the ways trauma lodges inside of us, bodily techniques for processing difficult experiences, and what it means to understand God as the ultimate healer. They dig deeper into systems theory, discuss how theology and psychology can integrate, and share stories from their early marriage.

Lisa explains the dangers of spiritualizing our experiences and what it may look like to invite God into them instead. They talk about times in their lives when they experienced deep grief and how they learned to accept care and compassion rather than only being the ones to share it with others.

Tune in for a conversation that gets right to the heart of the matter of what it is to be—and to feel—human.

Resources mentioned in this episode include:

• Bowen family systems theory
• EMDR
• “It Is Well With My Soul” by Horatio G. Spafford
• 
  

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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Most Christians would probably say that relaxing in the presence of God sounds like a beautiful idea. But do we know how to do that? And do we understand what gets in our way?

On this episode of Being Human, Steve Cuss helps listeners identify the reactivity in their lives that keeps them from experiencing connection with God, themselves, and others. He walks through a brief history of systems theory, noting the key figures who have built a body of work exploring how relational dynamics affect us. He explains the ways that ego drives decision-making, how to recognize and respond to stuck patterns, and what it looks like to “get off the treadmill” of expending energy and effort on trying harder. 

Cuss shares stories from Scripture, history, and his own life that shed light on how to look at the nature of our beliefs. And he digs down to the surprising roots of the word “gospel,” illuminating the ways that only Christianity has a God who sacrifices that humanity might benefit.

Resources mentioned in this episode include:

• Bowen Family Systems Theory
• Edwin H. Friedman
• Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin H. Friedman
• Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs by Steve Cuss
• Gregory Bateson
• Margaret Mead
• Mental Research Institute
• The False Self
• Pax: War and Peace in Rome’s Golden Age by Tom Holland
• Virgil
• Timothy Keller
• Faith Within Reason by Herbert McCabe

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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What happens when we’re reactive? We disconnect from our awareness of God. 

So says Steve Cuss on this episode of Being Human. With concrete advice and a tone of encouragement, Cuss illuminates the path for listeners who want to name what causes their reactivity so they can stay connected to themselves, God, and others. 

Cuss explores how Jesus paves a way for us to connect to our so-called enemies. He directs listeners into prayer and peace as he shares stories of addressing anxiety and reactivity in his own life. And he helps listeners identify how reactivity shows up in their bodies so that they can actively diffuse it.

Tune in for an episode that is Scripturally rich, gently guiding, and practically applicable.

Resources mentioned in this episode include:

• Managing Leadership Anxiety 
• Capable Life
• Richard Villodas
• Experimental Theology with Richard Beck

“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today

Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper

Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens

Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry

Theme song by Dan Phelps

Original Music by Andy Gullahorn

Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris

Graphic Design: Amy Jones

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Steve digs deeper into the anxiety known as "reactivity" and the different ways we all respond when our values are broken by others. He uses the 2024 presidential election as an example, giving viewers a couple of tools to manage reactivity. For more about Steve, and to download his video ‘The 4 Spaces of Anxiety’ visit stevecusswords.com

Being Human with Steve Cuss, in collaboration with Christianity Today.

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The first episode of Being Human With Steve Cuss, in collaboration with Christianity Today.

Steve talks about the nature of reactivity, how it disconnects us, and how being a ‘well self’ is kept for human flourishing. Steve shares much of his own journey and gives a couple of tools to manage reactivity. 

For more about Steve, and to download his video ‘The 4 Spaces of Anxiety’ visit www.stevecusswords.com

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The Friendly Neighborhood Therapist joins Steve on this annual wrap up. They chat about lessons learned this year, giving yourself the gift of wellbeing in 2024 and what is coming down the pike for next year. Plus, Steve shares his favorite advent poem.  

We also announce the podcast's new name. NOTE: next year our podcast name is changing as we move onto a new partnership, but you don't need to do anything - you can access it through your existing podcast subscription.

Click here to learn more about our intensives

To make a difference in the lives of aged out foster youth visit Dream Makers Project

Visit Seminary Now to engage an amazing library of courses for your faith. Use CUSS30 coupon code for 30% off.

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*Apologies for the crunchy audio at the beginning of the show*

J.S. (Joon) Park is a hospital chaplain and author of The Voices We Carry. Steve first encountered J.S. through his remarkable twitter feed which is well worth a follow here. 

Joon talks through his first day as a chaplain, how verbatims help us grow and how to stay human in a world of constant suffering and death. 

This was a remarkable interview! 

Thanks to our sponsors:

To make a difference in the lives of aged out foster youth visit Dream Makers Project

Visit Seminary Now to engage an amazing library of courses for your faith. Use CUSS30 coupon code for 30% off. 

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Brad Lomenick is the former president of Catalyst and the author of several books including the H3 Leader. 

Brad is a gifted connector and developer of people. For two decades he has met with thousands of Christian leaders. In this interview, Steve gets into Brad's early leadership experience when he was 8 and what wrangling horses taught him about leadership. Like others before him, he gleefully endured the Gauntlet. 

To make a difference in the lives of aged out foster youth visit Dream Makers Project

Visit Seminary Now to engage an amazing library of courses for your faith. Use CUSS30 coupon code for 30% off. 

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Julie Mavis is the Founder of Dream Makers Project, an organization dedicated to helping youth as they age out of foster care. Because of Dream Makers, these kids do not have to face the world, their future and their decisions alone. 

Julie is joined in this interview by Annika Marek-Barta, herself a former foster youth and on the Dream Makers team. 

In this powerful interview, we get into Julie's journey with foster care and why she launched Dream Makers. Annika also shares about her journey through foster care, the meaning she made of her experiences. 

This was an incredible conversation with two power leaders. 

Please support our wonderful sponsors: 

To make a difference in the lives of aged out foster youth visit Dream Makers Project

Visit Seminary Now to engage an amazing library of courses for your faith. Use CUSS30 coupon code for 30% off. 

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Steve LOVED interviewing William Vanderbloemen on this week's episode. He brought so much needed wisdom for leaders today.

William is the founder of Vanderbloemen Search Group. Since their founding they have placed 2500+ employees into churches and non profits and they have done 30,000 job interviews. 

It is out of this unique experience as well as being a former pastor that William writes his latest book, Be The Unicorn: 12 Data-Driven Habits that Separate the Best Leaders from the Rest.

William brings a unique combination of deep understanding of local church and theology with the very best knowledge and practices of professional executive search.

Please support our wonderful sponsors: 

To make a difference in the lives of aged out foster youth visit Dream Makers Project

Visit Seminary Now to engage an amazing library of courses for your faith. Use CUSS30 coupon code for 30% off. 

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This week, Managing Leadership Anxiety turns five!

This episode has four parts:

1) Why Steve launched MLA, early concepts and lessons. 

2) Why Systems Theory, other practitioners, Steve's unique contribution to the field. 

3) What Steve has learned from doing 'public' work. 

4) Exciting announcements and updates for 2024. 

The free 'Four Spaces Of Anxiety' video. (Note, Steve may have said 'you can download' this video on the pod, but in fact you can watch it online.) 

Seminary Now Custom MLA Page. 

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Many leaders and people in care giving vocations are notorious for focusing on others to the detriment of wellbeing. In this episode Steve is joined by his wife Lisa as they discuss core tools of self care as we approach the holiday season. Self care, in our field, is fundamentally about relaxing into God's presence, not about self nurture or self improvement. 

To download a free Life Giving List, click here. 

To learn more about the Calm, Aware, Present Journal as a Christmas gift, click here. 

To join Seminary Now click here. (CUSS30 gets you 30% off, it does not freely permit you to cuss 30% more often.) 

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Dr Kathleen Smith wrote one of my all time favorite Systems books called Everything Isn't Terrible. The book is brilliant, clear and witty and a great reflection of Kathleen herself. 

Kathleen is a therapist in the DC area and her book gets us right into her therapy room as we follow along with her clients' journeys of healing and wellbeing. Kathleen also happens to write my favorite newsletter which you can access here. 

In this episode, we dig into Bowen theory, the world of dating and why taking responsibility for yourself can be so helpful and also an occasional drag/

Thanks to Seminary Now for sponsoring this episode. To receive 30% off access, visit the MLA Seminary Now page and use coupon code CUSS30

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This week Steve and Jimmy look beyond problems to 'attempted solutions.' Jay Haley famously said, 'I do not address problems, I address attempted solutions.' So often we get stuck in 'more of the same' and 'try harder' because we do not see our own complicity in the situation. Steve and Jimmy look at how we get stuck and then how to get unstuck when faced with recurring problems. 

Thanks to Seminary Now for sponsoring this episode. To receive 30% off access, visit the MLA Seminary Now page and use coupon code CUSS30

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Today, Jimmy Carnes joins Steve to continue their four part series, 'the four dynamics that infect every relationship.' They look at 'stuck' or predictable, recurring patterns. First patterns in ourselves, then in our relationships and teams. Tips to notice them and diffuse them and examples from Steve and Jimmy's own anxious lives. 

Thanks to Seminary Now for sponsoring this episode. Click the link and put CUSS30 in the coupon slot for 30% off access to the Managing Anxiety videos and so much more. 

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I often get asked about Systems Theory books to read. In this episode, I list a number of books and also offer critique or recommendation AND I also pull out of some of the books a key tool you can use in your life. So you can listen to this book review episode, not read any books and still benefit! 

Books by: founders of the theory (who are all white men), women, faith based. I also talk about the challenge of Systems being such a western and individualistic theory and some pioneering work in non western or non white contexts. 

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Aundi Kolber is a licensed professional counselor (MA, LPC) and the best selling author of the critically acclaimed Try Softer and her new book Strong like Water.

She has received additional training in her specialization of trauma- and body-centered therapies and is passionate about the integration of faith and psychology. Aundi has appeared on Good Morning America, regularly speaks at national events, and is a frequent guest on podcasts such as The Lazy Genius, Typology, and The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. As a survivor of trauma, Aundi brings hard-won knowledge about the work of change, the power of redemption, and the beauty of experiencing God with us in our pain.

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There are four dynamics that infect every relationship you have: assumptions, reactivity, stuck patterns, attempted solutions. 

These four dynamics infect not only your human relationships, they also infect your relationship with God. 

They also infect your relationship with yourself and they are a key reason why your wellbeing gets disrupted.

On this episode Steve is joined by Capable Life trainer Jimmy Carnes to cover reactivity. What is it, how do you notice it, how do you manage it? 

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There are four dynamics than infect every relationship: assumptions, reactivity, stuck patterns and attempted solutions. In this first of four episodes, Steve and Jimmy Carnes dig into assumptions: what they are, how to notice them and why they make things so much bigger and catastrophic than they really are. 

To live stream or watch the Unlocking Faith conference or to get more info, click here. 

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Steve thoroughly appreciated this chat with fellow Aussie Benjamin Windle as he brought many profound and succinct nuggets for us. 

Benjamin recently wrote the excellent Good Catastrophe, looking at how God turns and uses catastrophic events in our lives. Ben has lived enough of them for all of us. 

He has been a local church Pastor for over 20 years, including as a Founding and Senior Pastor and he consults organizations on generational understanding. He specializes in Millennial/Gen Z and you can learn more about Ben at his website. 

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John and Nancy Ortberg join Steve to endure several of his Gauntlet of Anxiety Questions. Not surprisingly, the questions generated MUCH wisdom from these giants in our faith. Steve found himself doing some deep work in real time as John and Nancy fleshed out a way of being human and with God. 

To get tickets to our upcoming Unlocking Faith conference, click here. 

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Today we launch a brand new tool and it is one of our favorite type of tools because it is: very straightforward and simple but is also SO obvious, we neglect it. Therefore, we can begin to practice it and revolutionize our inner wellbeing. Lisa is joined by Lisa, the Friendly Neighborhood Therapist to kick around the new tool:

Put yourself on your conscious list of relationships. 

To participate in our upcoming Unlocking Faith Conference or to learn more, click here. 

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This week Steve is joined by his therapist wife Lisa and Capable Life Trainer Jimmy Carnes. They dig into Steve's morning of shame, virtues, vices and the autopilot we get into, as well as some noticing and diffusing tools. 

To learn more about our upcoming Unlocking Faith Conference, click here.

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We all know what to believe and what our brain believes, but what does our anxiety believe and what does ori body believe? Sometimes the gap between our belief about God and our experience of God comes down to our functional theology. 

On this episode, Steve is joined by Lisa Cuss and also Capable Life trainer, Renae Loring. They dig into Renae's journey of anxiety management, how to locate your functional beliefs and how to begin to dislodge them. 

The Unlocking Faith conference is fast approaching - Oct 2-4. You can join us in Colorado or stream online. If your schedule doesn't line up, a streaming ticket also gives you access on demand to all sessions after we're done. If you'd like to get unstuck in your faith, this conference is designed to give you keys to unlock what is blocking your experience of God's love, presence and freedom. 

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Steve chats with Glenn and Holly Packiam about leadership transition, establishing trust as a new leader, the challenge a leader’s spouse faces in ‘second hand criticism’ and their recent book and upcoming journal, Intentional Year and the soon to be released Intentional Year Journal. 

Glenn is an essential voice in these times. He brings a rare combination of compassion, academia, creativity, and thoughtfulness to his role as Lead Pastor at Rockharbor Church and so many of us have benefited from his voice. Holly is a pastor with a Master in Counseling degree and has built two decades of faithful leadership and ministry in the local church. 

Learn more or purchase tickets for Unlocking Faith Conference. 

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Jimmy Carnes is a Capable Life trainer who has worked with Steve for over ten years. He joins Steve on the pod to chat:

- What do you do when you don't know what to do.

- Leadership as 'taking responsibility' rather than 'knowing what to do.'

- How many milliseconds do you need to know if a worship band member is not ok?

And much more. 

To get info and tickets for our upcoming Unlocking Faith conference, click here. 

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Sometimes it is easier to SEE Differentiation before you TRY it! We frequently recommend first watching it, then noticing a time you're anxious and debriefing after and then trying it for yourself. 

To that end, in this episode Steve spends time clarifying what differentiation is and then shows how it shows up in: Hidden Figures, The Crown, The Princess Bride, Toy Story and Spotlight. 

Coming in Oct 2-4, Unlocking Faith conference. Early bird pricing ends June 30th. Join us in person, live stream or watch later on demand Tickets and more info here. 

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This week Lisa and Steve dive into the 4 styles of attachment, we help you locate your own attachment styles and then we talk through some characters from the show and their attachment. We also dig into differentiation, how some people mis use it and where we see characters differentiating well. 

Unlocking Faith is coming! We'll help you locate and unlock beliefs that block your enjoyment of God.

Oct 2-4 in person in CO, or live stream or watch on demand. Early Bird pricing ends June 30

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We all have beliefs that lay deeper than our belief in God and these beliefs block our connection to God. In this episode, Steve is joined by his trauma and attachment therapist wife, Lisa to chat the nature of beliefs and tools to dislodge core beliefs so our precious belief can soak deeper into our lives. 

Our Unlocking Faith conference is approaching! Early bird prices end June 30th. To come in person or buy a live stream or on demand video access, click here. 

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Jessie Cruickshank’s new book is Ordinary DIscipleshipship - an incredible and fresh approach to the way we change and help others change. I loved this interview where Jessie digs into attachment theory, the way God wired our brains for change, the power of truth and assumptions and her favorite way to die while being outdoors. 

Jessie is Director of Certification for Future Church, an ordained Foursquare minister and a nationally recognized leader in the fields of Experiential Education and Educational Neuroscience. She holds a Master’s from Harvard in Mind, Brain, and Education. Jessie is passionate about creating organic systems that facilitate holistic human and organizational development.

Jessie hosts cohorts for individuals and churches looking to integrate Ordinary Discipleship into their context. You can access that here. 

For tickets to our Unlocking Faith Conference, either in person, live stream or on demand, click here. 

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Nick and Christine Caine are two of the most phenomenal people I know. Christine is an evangelist, gifted preacher and author. She and Nick lead Equip and Empower, an organization dedicated to helping women thrive in faith and leadership. They also lead A21, a global anti human trafficking organization. A21 is a full service organization from advocacy to rescue and recovery and operates in a dozen countries. 

In this rare treat, we hear from Nick and Christine together on the early days of A21, how they hear from God, the importance of concrete action and on Christine’s latest book. 

Don’t Look Back was released a few days ago and is available for purchase now. 

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If you'd like to get more intentional about working on these, you can join Capable Life either by yourself or with a group of peers. Some entire teams are joining together to work through these tools together. 

For more info on our Unlocking Faith conference in Oct, click here. 

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For more resources as well as tickets to the upcoming Unlocking Faith conference, visit www.stevecusswords.com

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Sean Nemecek is a pastor, coach at www.PIRministries.org and author of the MUST READ new book The Weary Leader’s Guide To Burnout. 

Sean chats his own harrowing journey into and out of burnout. He helps us measure our healthy relationships and also gives us ways to implement proper rhythms that increase our chance of being well. 

Leaders, this is such an important conversation. You are worth pouring into. Please do not listen and move on. You can get help and you are worth the money and time to do so. Contact Sean if you’d like him or his team to visit your church board to have this conversation. 

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How do we learn to restrain our impulses long enough to reflect on them with God so we can deliberatively respond rather than react? Today we share tips on that, we announce the new conference and an Aussie speaking tour. 

Info and Tickets for the Unlocking Faith conference. 

Info for the Australian Speaking Tour.

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Justin Rosolino is the Magnolia Community Engagement Coordinator, serving in the non profit arm of Magnolia, the home decor juggernaut founded by Chip and Joanna Gaines. 

Justin is a guitarist, classicist and former educator which explains why he now works in addressing systemic poverty in Waco, Texas. Justin is the author of Idiot, Sojourning Soul, a provocative, wide reaching and entertaining memoir of his life and of Christianity in general. 

For resources to help you manage anxiety, yours and theirs visit www.capablelife.me 

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Ike Miller is a pastor, scholar, church planter and author who is releasing a fascinating book called Good Baggage to help us understand the implication of our childhood on our well being. Ike and I chat about upbringing, childhood vows and more. And of course Ike very kindly endures the gauntlet of anxiety questions! 

For resources to help you with emotional and spiritual health, visit www.capablelife.me

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Mike Cosper is a musician, pastor, creative and podcaster, most recently known for the juggernaut podcast The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. Mike serves as a Senior Director at Christianity Today and recently hosted two beautiful interviews with Bono and Bill Mallonee. We discuss how grief infects our work for better or worse, the impact and challenge of producing RaFoMH podcast. We kick around art and craft and the vital importance of putting beautiful work into the world. Mike is an utter gem, I could have talked with him for hours. 

For a journal or other resources, you can visit www.capablelife.me

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Tara Beth Leach is a pastor, preacher and author. She brings a rare combination of candor, thoughtfulness, depth and succinctness. Tara Beth talks us through grieving as a leader, unique challenges of being a female pastor, the life of an Enneagram 6 and more. This was one of my all time favorite conversations and reminds me how grateful I am for her voice, writing and way in this world. You can dig into Tara Beth’s books here. 

Want to increase well being and break stuck relational patterns in you and your people? We can help you at www.capablelife.me 

Steve is booking workshops and speaking engagements and he has a couple of dates left in April - June and then again in November and December 2023. You can submit an inquiry here. 

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"People grow when they are in a quest or when they are in a crisis' so says the wonderful Dr Scot McKnight. 

Our church has built a philosophy of discipleship and change around this profound idea. Today I share our steps to transformation, whether talking about spiritual growth or relational health. 

Also, exciting announcements!

1. To be the first to hear when conference tickets go on sale, visit www.stevecusswords.com and grab the free PDF. We will email our whole email list when pre sale is ready. 

2. If you'd like to explore an intensive, either individual or group, you can learn more and submit an inquiry here. 

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Lisa, 'The Friendly Neighborhood Therapist' joins Steve to chat about power dynamics, manipulation vs gas lighting.

Steve and Lisa also talk about upcoming intensives and when you know you could benefit from one.

To learn more about intensives, purchase a journal or join the self paced learning community, visit www.capablelife.me 

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Movie writers and show runners sometimes employ an 'unreliable narrator' - often a character in the show who is confused, or intentionally deceiving the audience. Shows like The Sting, The Prestige, Home Land, True Detective and more employee this technique to keep the audience guessing or confused. 

Chronic anxiety is an unreliable narrator and the sooner we learn to mistrust its message, the more freedom we can experience. 

For journals and our self paced experience, visit www.capablelife.me 

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Chronic anxiety has a gospel and if you don't stay on its treadmill, it tells you that Armageddon will happen. This is why we stay stuck - we assume we have to keep doing what we're doing so disaster won't strike. 

But Chronic anxiety is unreliable. How do we test our assumptions? On this solo episode, Steve further explores assumptions and doom that come with anxiety. 

For journal or our self paced learning community, visit www.capablelife.me

To get on the interest list for 2023 intensives, email [email protected]

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A solo episode where Steve shares some of his current metaphors and tools on managing anxiety. This one - anxiety is like a lobster trap. You can leave anytime you want. 

Visit www.capablelife.me to order the new Calm, Aware, Present Journal, add on some video guides or join our Capable Life self paced community.

To get on the interest list for Steve's 2023 intensives, email [email protected] 

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**For journals, online community or to inquire about Steve serving your organization, visit www.capablelife.me**

This week Steve chats with Jay Kim, a thoughtful and wise young pastor who chats through analog Christianity, challenges of transition in leadership and minority culture. There were just so many fantastic nuggets of wisdom in this episode. 

Jay Y Kim serves as lead pastor at WestGate Church.

He has written two cracking books on navigating our faith in a digital age: Analog Church and Analog Christian and was a contributor to Red  Skies. You can reach Jay on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.

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** For a journal, video series or to join our Capable Life self paced learning journey, visit www.capablelife.me **

I'm writing a new book! For feedback, or to share your own gaps, email [email protected]

Also, shout out to Don Pape at PapeCommons. 

For more about Tyler Schultz: 

The Dropout Podcast

Tyler Schultz Interview. 

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** For a journal, video series or to join our Capable Life self paced learning journey, visit www.capablelife.me **

Murray Bowen, founder of Family Systems Theory developed 8 concepts to guide and explain how we think and act. Understanding and putting into practice these 8 concepts can really revolutionize your relationship with people and with anxiety.

This episode is part 2 of 2 as we cover the last 4 of the 8 concepts. Hosted by Steve Cuss and Brendan Reed. (Listen to Part 1 here.)

**This episode is a re run of one of our most downloaded episodes.**

***Apologies for episode 150 which was supposed to be this recording, but we mixed up the file, so we have deleted episode 150 and this episode is the correct file.***

Links referenced in both episodes:

MLA Episode featuring Rich Villodas

MLA Episode featuring Jim Herrington

MLA Episode featuring Trisha Taylor

Emotionally Healthy Leadership

The Leader’s Journey

8 Concepts of Bowen Theory book

Generation to Generation

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Lucy Peppiatt is the Principal of Westminster Theological Centre in the UK where she teaches classes in systematic theology and spiritual formation. She is the author of volumes on discipleship, women in the NT, and the imago Dei and has a particular interest in the relation of Christ and the Spirit. She and her husband, Nick Crawley, have been in church leadership for over 30 years. They have four married sons. 

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DJ Chuang works as a freelance strategy consultant with over 20 years of experience in developing digital strategies and effective team processes for businesses, nonprofits and churches, accomplishing a reputation for pioneering innovations, developing effective resources, and strategically connecting people for greater impact. DJ is a recognized facilitator of dynamic conversations that co-create innovative solutions that meet specific organizational needs and context. He’s launched 3 podcasts, edited 2 books, and authored 1 book.

DJ has worked with a wide range of organizations, including: AT&T, American Bible Society, Get.Bible, Leadership Network, Exponential Network, Worship Leader Magazine, Visually Linked Bible, L2 Foundation, and Biola University. DJ has been featured on PBS, NBC News, Los Angeles Times, OC Register, Christian Post, and NPR.

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Sharon Hodde Miller is a speaker, author, church planter, co pastor and scholar whose recent book The Cost Of Control is a must read. Sharon diagnoses our control issues, but then sifts them through modern challenges like smart phones and body image. A delightful chat with a sharp and vital thinker. 

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**To join Capable Life before the price increase, sign up for our free communications masterclass or buy a journal, visit www.stevecusswords.com

Murray Bowen, founder of Family Systems Theory developed 8 concepts to guide and explain how we think and act. Understanding and putting into practice these 8 concepts can really revolutionize your relationship with people and with anxiety.

This episode is part 1 of 2 as we cover 4 of the 8 concepts. Hosted by Steve Cuss and Brendan Reed.

Links referenced in both episodes:

MLA Episode featuring Rich Villodas

MLA Episode featuring Jim Herrington

MLA Episode featuring Trisha Taylor

Emotionally Healthy Leadership

The Leader’s Journey

8 Concepts of Bowen Theory book

Generation to Generation

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Steve is delighted to be joined by his 15 year old daughter, Kaylee. Kaylee is a foremost expert on the TV show Gilmore Girls AND she has sat through enough of Steve’s workshops (and, frankly, dinner conversations) that she is able to diagnose the anxiety in the System of Gilmore Girls. Steve and Kaylee cover triangulation, double binds, mixed messages and more. 

Note: www.capablelife.me membership prices increase Sept 15th. Join now before the price goes up. 

Also, our journals are now available for sale! You can use the above link to order a journal. 

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Dr Anne Pattel-Gray was the first Indiginous Australian to receive a PhD in Theology and she has used her personal experience and training to speak prophetically into unjust and evil racist systems. Anne has achieved many firsts in her life, and she is known as a trail blazer and has opened many doors for her people. She is a recognised scholar, Aboriginal activist and prolific writer with several publications –chapters, articles, edited works and authored books.

Steve first encountered Dr Pattel-Gray’s work while he was in seminary and was thrilled to chat with her about the nature of power, what the white church can do and the ongoing plight of First Nations people. Anne is the author of many books including Through Aboriginal Eyes

Note: Capable Life subscription price is increasing September 15. You can learn more about Capable Life as well as join to lock in the current price here.

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After a quick update and a candle lighting, Steve digs into the nature of power by comparing the Roman Pax Romana to the Gospel of Jesus and the Gospel of our chronic anxiety and inner critic. 

To learn more about the free Communication Style masterclass, visit www.stevecusswords.com

Note: Capable Life membership prices increase Sept 15. To join before the price increases, visit www.capablelife.me

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Part 7 in this series.

Ruth Haley Barton (Doctor of Divinity, Northern Seminary) is founding president/CEO of the Transforming Center, a ministry dedicated to strengthening the souls of pastors and Christian leaders, and the congregations and organizations they serve. For over twenty years, she has ministered to the soul care needs of pastors and leaders based upon her conviction that the best thing we bring to leadership is our own transforming selves.

Ruth is the author of numerous books and resources on the spiritual life, including Invitation to Solitude and Silence, Sacred Rhythms, Longing for More, Pursuing God's Will Together, and Life Together in Christ. She continues to share her thoughts and perspectives on soulful leadership through an online resource called eReflections as well as a podcast entitled Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership.

Ruth’s newest book, Embracing Rhythms of Work and Rest, will focus on rest and the need for leaders to take a Sabbath. 

If you are interested in learning more about Ruth's work with the Transforming Center please visit their website. You are invited to join their next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders. 

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Part 6 in this series.

Ruth Haley Barton (Doctor of Divinity, Northern Seminary) is founding president/CEO of the Transforming Center, a ministry dedicated to strengthening the souls of pastors and Christian leaders, and the congregations and organizations they serve. For over twenty years, she has ministered to the soul care needs of pastors and leaders based upon her conviction that the best thing we bring to leadership is our own transforming selves.

Ruth is the author of numerous books and resources on the spiritual life, including Invitation to Solitude and Silence, Sacred Rhythms, Longing for More, Pursuing God's Will Together, and Life Together in Christ. She continues to share her thoughts and perspectives on soulful leadership through an online resource called eReflections as well as a podcast entitled Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership.

Ruth’s newest book, Embracing Rhythms of Work and Rest, will focus on rest and the need for leaders to take a Sabbath. 

If you are interested in learning more about Ruth's work with the Transforming Center please visit their website. You are invited to join their next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Part 5 in this series.

Ruth Haley Barton (Doctor of Divinity, Northern Seminary) is founding president/CEO of the Transforming Center, a ministry dedicated to strengthening the souls of pastors and Christian leaders, and the congregations and organizations they serve. For over twenty years, she has ministered to the soul care needs of pastors and leaders based upon her conviction that the best thing we bring to leadership is our own transforming selves.

Ruth is the author of numerous books and resources on the spiritual life, including Invitation to Solitude and Silence, Sacred Rhythms, Longing for More, Pursuing God's Will Together, and Life Together in Christ. She continues to share her thoughts and perspectives on soulful leadership through an online resource called eReflections as well as a podcast entitled Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership.

Ruth’s newest book, Embracing Rhythms of Work and Rest, will focus on rest and the need for leaders to take a Sabbath. 

If you are interested in learning more about Ruth's work with the Transforming Center please visit their website. You are invited to join their next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Part 4 in this series.

Ruth Haley Barton (Doctor of Divinity, Northern Seminary) is founding president/CEO of the Transforming Center, a ministry dedicated to strengthening the souls of pastors and Christian leaders, and the congregations and organizations they serve. For over twenty years, she has ministered to the soul care needs of pastors and leaders based upon her conviction that the best thing we bring to leadership is our own transforming selves.

Ruth is the author of numerous books and resources on the spiritual life, including Invitation to Solitude and Silence, Sacred Rhythms, Longing for More, Pursuing God's Will Together, and Life Together in Christ. She continues to share her thoughts and perspectives on soulful leadership through an online resource called eReflections as well as a podcast entitled Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership.

Ruth’s newest book, Embracing Rhythms of Work and Rest, will focus on rest and the need for leaders to take a Sabbath. 

If you are interested in learning more about Ruth's work with the Transforming Center please visit their website. You are invited to join their next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Part 3 in this series.

Ruth Haley Barton (Doctor of Divinity, Northern Seminary) is founding president/CEO of the Transforming Center, a ministry dedicated to strengthening the souls of pastors and Christian leaders, and the congregations and organizations they serve. For over twenty years, she has ministered to the soul care needs of pastors and leaders based upon her conviction that the best thing we bring to leadership is our own transforming selves.

Ruth is the author of numerous books and resources on the spiritual life, including Invitation to Solitude and Silence, Sacred Rhythms, Longing for More, Pursuing God's Will Together, and Life Together in Christ. She continues to share her thoughts and perspectives on soulful leadership through an online resource called eReflections as well as a podcast entitled Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership.

Ruth’s newest book, Embracing Rhythms of Work and Rest, will focus on rest and the need for leaders to take a Sabbath. 

If you are interested in learning more about Ruth's work with the Transforming Center please visit their website. You are invited to join their next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Part 2 in this series.

Ruth Haley Barton (Doctor of Divinity, Northern Seminary) is founding president/CEO of the Transforming Center, a ministry dedicated to strengthening the souls of pastors and Christian leaders, and the congregations and organizations they serve. For over twenty years, she has ministered to the soul care needs of pastors and leaders based upon her conviction that the best thing we bring to leadership is our own transforming selves.

Ruth is the author of numerous books and resources on the spiritual life, including Invitation to Solitude and Silence, Sacred Rhythms, Longing for More, Pursuing God's Will Together, and Life Together in Christ. She continues to share her thoughts and perspectives on soulful leadership through an online resource called eReflections as well as a podcast entitled Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership.

Ruth’s newest book, Embracing Rhythms of Work and Rest, will focus on rest and the need for leaders to take a Sabbath. 

If you are interested in learning more about Ruth's work with the Transforming Center please visit their website. You are invited to join their next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this brief episode, Steve lights a candle (water mint and eucalyptus), asks some questions that God asks and gives info about the Calm, Aware, Present Journal that is live on kickstarter for May 2022. 

If you've not had a chance to order a journal, would you do so now?

Would you also consider posting about it on your socials and sharing the link with anyone who might benefit?

Kickstarter is here.

Thanks! Back next week with Part 2 of Steve's chat with Ruth Haley Barton. 

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Ruth Haley Barton (Doctor of Divinity, Northern Seminary) is founding president/CEO of the Transforming Center, a ministry dedicated to strengthening the souls of pastors and Christian leaders, and the congregations and organizations they serve. For over twenty years, she has ministered to the soul care needs of pastors and leaders based upon her conviction that the best thing we bring to leadership is our own transforming selves.

Ruth is the author of numerous books and resources on the spiritual life, including Invitation to Solitude and Silence, Sacred Rhythms, Longing for More, Pursuing God's Will Together, and Life Together in Christ. She continues to share her thoughts and perspectives on soulful leadership through an online resource called eReflections as well as a podcast entitled Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership.

Ruth’s newest book, Embracing Rhythms of Work and Rest, will focus on rest and the need for leaders to take a Sabbath. 

If you are interested in learning more about Ruth's work with the Transforming Center please visit their website. You are invited to join their next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gina Cherion emailed me recently asking about Systems Theory in non white spaces, specifically how differentiation works in Asian culture. Gina is a pastor of Indian descent and when I received her email I knew I wanted to interview her and Marvin Williams who I have gotten to know through my Systems work and through Capable Life. Marvin is doing doctoral work at Fuller Seminary on Systems Theory, specifically on black presence in majority culture. I LOVED this conversation with these two pastors who led us on a great journey of managing expectations, carrying the weight of culture, shape shifting and more.

Gina Cherian has served the church in various roles, including serving as a campus pastor of a large multisite church and her current role as a pastor at Hope Community Church on the North Shore of Chicago. Gina longs to see every person discover the life-changing grace of Christ that has transformed her life. As an Indian-American woman, she is passionate about advancing the beautiful multiethnic community described in Revelation to our reality today. Gina is a devoted fan of all things related to her hometown of Chicago: sports, food, and even the weather. She resides in the Chicagoland area with her husband and two kids.

Marvin Williams has served as the Lead Pastor of Trinity Church in Lansing, Michigan since February 2010. He is a graduate of Bishop College in Dallas, Texas, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois, and Grand Rapids Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He and his wife Tonia have three children. 

In addition to his ministry at Trinity Church, he was a regular devotional author for Our Daily Bread and Our Daily Journey and was one of the Bible Teachers for Sports.org. He is also a contributor to Scott Williams’ best-selling book, Church Diversity. He regularly speaks at conferences, retreats, chapels and churches around the country.

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Glenn Packiam is quite simply one of my favorite pastors and thinkers. Being an academic and a musician, a charismatic and an Anglican, as well as an immigrant gives Glenn a deep well of wisdom. Glenn is also one of the finest communicators I know. Profound, succinct, shepherding. 

That is probably why I keep hosting Glenn on this show. I just want to learn more and more from this gem of a human. 

Glenn’s latest book is the Resilient Pastor and he is also host of the podcast of the same name.

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Dr. Steve Brown develops Jesus-centered leaders as president of Arrow Leadership, a ministry focused on developing leaders who are led more by Jesus, lead more like Jesus and lead more to Jesus. Over the last two decades Steve has spent thousands of hours alongside hundreds of Christian leaders from around the world.

Steve is the author of Jesus Centered - Focusing on Jesus in a Distracted World (2021), Leading Me - 8 Keys To A Christian Leader's Most Important Assignment (2015), Great Questions for Leading Well and free e-resources at www.sharpeningleaders.com

Connect with Steve at www.steveabrown.com or learn more about Arrow Leadership at www.arrowleadership.org

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Steve talks with Mark Sayers about Systems Theory, leading with Bipolar and his upcoming book ‘Non Anxious Presence.’ 

Mark is the senior leader of Red Church in Melbourne, Australia. He is passionate about spiritual renewal and the future of the church. Mark is the author of a number of books including Strange Days and Reappearing Church.  Mark lives in Melbourne with his wife, Trudi, his daughter, Grace, and twin boys, Hudson and Billy.

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This week Steve’s wife Lisa joins the show to tackle listener questions. Lisa Cuss is Licensed Professional Therapist who offers physiology, neurobiology and attachment tools for anxiety management. 

Our listeners sent 4 pages of questions this week so we will tackle many of them throughout the year, but we spent most of our time on physiology tools and the brain’s response to various threats. Then we addressed some listener questions in rapid fire responses. 

You can connect with Lisa at www.capablelife.me inside our community. 

We referenced Lisa Dion and the wonderful Synergistic Play Therapy Institute. You can explore their podcast here (LINK: https://synergeticplaytherapy.com/episode-14-lessons-playroom-podcast-four-threats-brain%E2%80%8B/)

And we also referenced Ben and Lynley Mandrell’s wonderful podcast ‘The Glass House’ where Steve was a recent guest. (LINK HERE: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-glass-house/id1584356771)

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Angie Ward is a leadership teacher and author with over 30 years of experience in church, parachurch, and Christian higher education ministry. She is the editor of the Kingdom Conversations series for NavPress, author of I Am a Leader: When Women Discover the Joy of their Calling (2020, NavPress), and serves as Assistant Director of the Doctor of Ministry program at Denver Seminary.

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Howard and Holly Satterthwaite have recently written a book Spiritual Detox, which invites you to rethink the way you see confession and discover greater joy through this spiritual discipline. They have been married for eleven years and have two children. Howard is the lead pastor of the world-famous and historic www.westminsterchapel.org.uk in London. Before that he worked as a barrister as well as engaging in human rights work in Kenya and the USA. Holly, having been a learning and development adviser in an international law firm in the city of London, is now a qualified career coach, www.thehopecoach.uk. She is also involved in the wider leadership of Westminster Chapel.

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Steve Cuss flies solo for this episode on becoming more attentive to God, the importance of breathing, and more.

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David E. Woolverton has been a pastor for over 30 years -- serving churches facing turn-around ministry situations. He has a doctorate in Conflict Leadership and has had intensive clinical training in hospital chaplaincy. He is affiliate professor of leadership studies at Evangelical Theological Seminary, Myerstown, PA and a faculty mentor with Kairos University, Sioux Falls, SD. David is a sought-after workshop leader and church consultant in conflict leadership and transitions.

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Steve Cuss, host of the MLA Podcast, continues his focused series on differentiation.

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IAN MORGAN CRON is a bestselling author, psychotherapist, Enneagram teacher, Episcopal priest, and the host of the wildly popular podcast, "Typology," which has over 17 million downloads. His books include the Enneagram primer The Road Back to You, the novel Chasing Francis, the spiritual memoir Jesus, My Father, the CIA, and Me, and The Story of You: An Enneagram Journey to Becoming Your True Self (December 2021).

Known for his transparency, humor, and depth of insight into the inner workings of the human heart and mind, Ian uses the Enneagram personality typing system as a tool to help people cultivate self-awareness and find happiness. Ian is a popular speaker and business consultant for organizations like The Discovery Channel, Michael Hyatt Company, Warner Brothers Music, and Chick-Fil-A. In addition, he shares his expertise on popular podcasts such as "The Minimalists," "The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast," Jon Acuff's "All It Takes is a Goal," Jen Hatmaker's "For the Love,” and many others. He and his wife, Anne, have three children and live in Nashville, Tennessee.

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Felicia L. Harris, PhD, is a writer, speaker, and associate professor at the University of Houston-Downtown, where she teaches communication and serves as the Assistant Director of the Center for Critical Race Studies. Her scholarship explores issues of race, representation, culture, and community in mass media and higher education, and has been published in academic journals including The Black Scholar, The Review of Communication, and FIRE!!! The Multimedia Journal of Black Studies.

Beyond her work in the academy, Felicia is an avid writer exploring issues of faith, identity, and justice in publications such as HuffPost, Faithfully Magazine, the Our Bible App, and more. Her mission is to empower others to imagine beautiful futures for those who are often overlooked. She accomplishes this through academic scholarship, editorial writing, and ministry work as an intercessory prayer warrior and small group leader. In September 2021, Felicia published her first book, First in the Family: Biblical Truths for Cycle Breakers with Leafwood Publishers. She lives in Houston, Texas, with her son, Omari, and their dog, Ray Charlie.

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Steve continues his 3 part series on Differentiation this week by looking at Enmeshment. What does it feel like to be enmeshed? What is it like for those we rabidly try to help? How can we move from enmeshed to balanced and well? 

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Steve Cuss is back with another episode featuring Carey Nieuwhof.

Carey Nieuwhof is a wise guide because of the way he listens, the way he thinks and what he has experienced. He runs the most sought after podcast for Christian leaders in the world and because of the caliber of his guests, he has a front row to some of the best wisdom available. Carey is a gifted interviewer, probing to get to the heart of his guests.

Carey is also a church planter, pastor and author. His recent book Didn’t See It Coming chronicles the challenges of leadership pressure and the book he is working on now shares the proactive side of keeping ahead of those challenges.

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Steve starts a series on Differentiation, first focusing on detachment. What it is, what it feels like to the other and tips to move toward the other when you want to detach. 

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Lisa Nichols is the CEO and co-founder of Technology Partners (TPI), a Women-Business Enterprise and provider of premier IT staffing, solutions, and IT leadership development. Named among the Most Influential Business Women (by St. Louis Business Journal) this year, Lisa’s influence has been recognized by her peers and greater St. Louis community.

Lisa and her husband, Greg, founded Technology Partners in 1994 driven by their passion to revolutionize the staffing industry with their transparent business model. They co-lead the business today. Greg and Lisa have made it their priority from day one to create mutual wins for their employees, clients, and the communities in which Technology Partners operates.

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Amie Patrick has served in a wide variety of ministry roles and contexts for almost 30 years. She planted The Journey church in St. Louis, Missouri alongside her husband Darrin in 2001, and walked alongside Darrin in a restoration process after he was removed from leadership at The Journey in 2016. Since Darrin's sudden and tragic death in 2020, Amie has been navigating a new path of grief, single parenthood and living a meaningful life in the midst of unexpected loss. Amie is a mother to three daughters and a son, and is passionate about spiritual formation and equipping leaders for emotionally and spiritually healthy lives and ministries.

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Clare Steele is the CEO of Compassion Australia and has worked for over a decade in Christian ministry, following a successful business career. As both a professional and a mother, she has a passion for helping vulnerable children living in poverty and encouraging families in their walk with Christ.

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Clare Steele is the CEO of Compassion Australia and has worked for over a decade in Christian ministry, following a successful business career. As both a professional and a mother, she has a passion for helping vulnerable children living in poverty and encouraging families in their walk with Christ.

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The Rt. Rev. Dr. Todd Hunter is the founding bishop of The Diocese of Churches for the Sake of Others, founder of The Telos Collective, and founder of the Center for Formation, Justice and Peace. He is past president of Alpha USA, former national director for the Association of Vineyard Churches, and retired founding pastor of Holy Trinity Anglican Church in Costa Mesa, CA. He is the author of Christianity Beyond Belief: Following Jesus for the Sake of Others, Giving Church Another Chance, The Outsider Interviews, The Accidental Anglican, Our Favorite Sins, Our Character at Work and Deep Peace.

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Originally from Australia, Mandy Smith is pastor of St Lucia Uniting Church, Brisbane, Australia and the author of "The Vulnerable Pastor: How Human Limitations Empower Our Ministry" (IVP) and "Unfettered: Imagining a Childlike Faith Beyond the Baggage of Western Culture" (Brazos). Mandy and her husband, a New Testament professor, live with their family in a little house where the teapot is always warm. Learn more about Mandy’s work at www.TheWayisTheWay.org.

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Dr. Heather Thompson Day is an interdenominational speaker and has been a contributor for Religion News Service, Christianity Today, Newsweek and the Barna Group. She is also an Associate Professor of Communication at Andrews University and host of Viral Jesus, a podcast with Christianity Today. She is passionate about supporting women, and runs an online community called I’m That Wife which has over 200k followers. 

Heather’s writing has been featured on outlets like the Today Show, and the National Communication Association. She has been interviewed by BBC Radio Live and has been featured in Forbes. 

She believes her calling is to stand in the gaps of our churches for young people. She is the author of 7 books; including It’s Not Your Turn, and Confessions of a Christian Wife.

She resides in Michigan, with her husband, Seth Day, and their three children, London, Hudson, and Sawyer Day.

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Casey Tygrett has been involved in the work of spiritual formation for nearly 25 years. Through various positions in churches, seminaries, and para-church organizations, Casey’s work in writing and speaking have aligned to create content that is wise and helpful for the journey of life and faith. 

He completed the Tending the Holy spiritual direction training program in 2015, and since then has provided spiritual direction to individuals both privately and as the Director of Spiritual Direction at Soul Care.

He is the author of two books, Becoming Curious: A Spiritual Practice of Asking Questions and As I Recall: Discovering the Place of Memories in Our Spiritual Life. The book As I Recall was awarded the 2020 Award of Merit in Spiritual Formation by Christianity Today.

Casey is the host of the otherWISE Podcast, collecting wise conversations for living well on the journey with Jesus. 

He and his wife Holley have been married for over 20 years and have one daughter named Bailey. They live in south suburban Chicago, IL. 

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Steve Carter is a pastor, speaker, author of The Thing Beneath The Thing, podcast host, and the former lead teaching pastor of Willow Creek Community Church in Chicago.

He hosts the Craft & Character podcast where he helps people get better at the art of communication while ensuring their character always leads the way. His desire is to bring Jesus into every conversation and space he occupies. Steve co-hosts one of the top sports podcasts called The Home Team Podcast with ESPN sports anchor Sam Acho and NFL player Trey Burton which unpacks the intersection between faith, culture, sports and family.

With a degree in Biblical Studies from Hope International University, Steve has a heart for the local church. Currently an itinerant preacher and teacher for churches, conferences, events, camps, and retreats all over the country, Steve lives in Phoenix with his wife, Sarah, and their two kids. 

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Steve Cuss takes an intriguing look at the show Ted Lasso through the Systems Theory lens.

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Winn Collier, a pastor for 26 years, was the founding pastor of All Souls in Charlottesville, Virginia. Winn now serves as Associate Professor of Pastoral Theology & Christian Imagination and director of the Eugene Peterson Center for Christian Imagination at Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan. Winn has a PhD in religion and fiction from the University of Virginia and is the author of multiple books, including Love Big, Be Well: Letters to a Smalltown Church and A Burning in My Bones, the biography of Eugene Peterson.

Bliss describes himself as unremarkable, Pastor with All Souls Charlottesville, looking for signs of new creation, and a wannabe spiritual poet & theologian.

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Brian Virtue is a Professor at International Graduate School of Leadership living in Manila. He is a fan of Servant Leadership, Congregational Systems, and Cross-Cultural Training.

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"If we want to be well as human beings, we need to become aware of what's bubbling the surface in us." In this new episode, Steve Cuss is on the mic by himself giving us some basic tools for managing leadership anxiety. 

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Corporate business leader Preston Poore has more than two decades of upper-level management experience, including as director of franchise leadership at The Coca-Cola Company. He has also worked for The Hershey Company, Dale Carnegie Training, Ralston Purina, and AmSouth Bank.

In addition, Preston is a minority shareholder and small-business owner of Numerica Corporation, an air, missile, and space defense company based in Fort Collins, Colorado. He serves on the board of directors and as corporate secretary.

Preston is a certified John Maxwell Team coach, speaker, and trainer.

He served on a Young Life committee, was an elder and member of Fellowship Church in Knoxville, Tennessee, was a facilitator for Christian Leadership Concepts, and serves at Passion City Church in Atlanta, Georgia. Preston holds an MBA from Samford University and a BS in management from Colorado State University.

His corporate work has been recognized through many awards such as the Dale Carnegie Sales Talk Champion award; The Hershey Company’s President’s Cup, a coveted national sales award that Preston won twice; and The Coca-Cola Company’s Woodruff Cup, a global top performance award.

Preston is a member of Sigma Chi Fraternity and the Sons of the American Revolution.

His wealth of hard-won experience and training in both personal and professional development inspired Preston to transfer his business leadership acumen to the Christian community. Through the Discipled Leader book, blog, and podcast, he seeks to increase the discipleship and leadership skills of Christians across the country. 

Preston and his wife, Carla, daughter, Caroline, and son, Benton, live in Atlanta, Georgia.

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Tim Costello studied law and worked as a lawyer, later studying theology in Switzerland. He's a Baptist Minister living in Melbourne, Australia who has a high profile given his years of work on Social Justice and Mission.

Presently Tim is a Senior Fellow with the Centre for Public Christianity and the Executive Director of Micah Australia. He's written several books including his memoir, A Lot with a Little.

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Steve wraps up the season with a personal update and a couple of tools for the summer!

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Greg Holder is author of Never Settle, The Genius of One, co-creator of Advent Conspiracy and a contributing writer for The Voice Bible. He serves as lead pastor at The Crossing, reaching nearly 10,000 people in person and online, calling people from an unlikely mix of spiritual backgrounds to consider what it means to follow Jesus in today’s world.

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John and Amber Carroll have been partners in ministry and life for nearly 20 years. During that time, they have discovered the depths of God’s love and the breadth of God’s grace. They’ve also learned a lot about each other, as well as the beauty and challenges of working side-by-side in the local church. 

Amber holds a Master of Theology degree from Fuller Theological Seminary. Since 2003, she has served the church in a variety of roles, including youth, worship, executive director and lead pastor. Amber’s heartbeat is to see the local church thrive wherever and however it is planted. 

John holds a Master of Divinity from Asbury Theological Seminary. His church roles include youth, spiritual formation and teaching pastor. John currently serves as the Director of the School of Kingdom Living for Dallas Willard Ministries. His heartbeat includes the two “ships” in life: DiscipleSHIP and RelationSHIP. 

John and Amber belong to the Evangelical Covenant Church. They have two wonderful teenage kids and currently live in Melbourne, Florida.

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John and Amber Carroll have been partners in ministry and life for nearly 20 years. During that time, they have discovered the depths of God’s love and the breadth of God’s grace. They’ve also learned a lot about each other, as well as the beauty and challenges of working side-by-side in the local church. 

Amber holds a Master of Theology degree from Fuller Theological Seminary. Since 2003, she has served the church in a variety of roles, including youth, worship, executive director and lead pastor. Amber’s heartbeat is to see the local church thrive wherever and however it is planted. 

John holds a Master of Divinity from Asbury Theological Seminary. His church roles include youth, spiritual formation and teaching pastor. John currently serves as the Director of the School of Kingdom Living for Dallas Willard Ministries. His heartbeat includes the two “ships” in life: DiscipleSHIP and RelationSHIP. 

John and Amber belong to the Evangelical Covenant Church. They have two wonderful teenage kids and currently live in Melbourne, Florida.

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As a former convict who found God and reaped the benefits from an aftercare program in Arizona, Matt saw the great need for a similar kind of program here in the Midwest after moving to Wichita in 2011. After two years of prayer, planning, brick walls, and dead ends, God’s spirit began to move in a mighty way. An unlikely team of people was brought together, and doors that had been closed for years began to open. 

Matt and his wife Christina live in Shawnee, KS. with their two young sons. They have also been blessed with three grandsons from their older daughters. Matt is as a published author, preaches, and consults with organizations focusing on re-entry programming and church planting.

As the Executive Director, Matt provides visionary leadership and oversight for the ministry.

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Andrew Arndt is the Lead Pastor of New Life East (one of seven congregations of New Life Church in Colorado Springs), where he also hosts the Essential Church podcast, a weekly conversation designed to strengthen the thinking of church and ministry leaders. Prior to joining New Life’s team, he served as Lead Pastor of Bloom Church: a neo-monastic, charismatic, liturgical, justice-driven network of house churches in Denver. He received his MDiv from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, and has written for Missio Alliance, Patheos, The Other Journal, and Mere Orthodoxy. He lives in the Springs with his wife Mandi and their four kids.

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The amazing Rich Stearns (online @RichStearns) joins Steve Cuss to talk about being fired as CEO twice in a year, rapidly learning while leading, global poverty, and his excellent new leadership book!

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The amazing Rich Stearns (online @RichStearns) joins Steve Cuss to talk about being fired as CEO twice in a year, rapidly learning while leading, global poverty, and his excellent new leadership book!

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Steve finishes his recent conversation on the dynamics of criticism as a follow-up to the previous two episodes.

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Criticism is a given for leaders, but that doesn't make it less painful. Criticism comes in all forms, some from inside us, like the inner critic, and some come at us. This is the second of a 3-part series where Steve gets personal and talks about the various forms of criticism.

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Criticism is a given for leaders, but that doesn't make it less painful. Criticism comes in all forms, some from inside us, like the inner critic, and some come at us. This is the first of a 3 part series where Steve gets personal and talks about the various forms of criticism. Today: The Inner Critic and Giants On Your Shoulders.

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Glenn Packiam is an Associate Senior Pastor at New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, and the Lead Pastor of one of its congregations, New Life Downtown. He is the author of six books, including “Worship and the World to Come” (IVP Academic, 2020) and “Blessed Broken Given: How Your Story Becomes Sacred in the Hands of Jesus” (Multnomah, 2019). Glenn earned a Doctorate in Theology and Ministry from Durham University, and is a Visiting Fellow at St. John’s College at Durham and an adjunct professor at Denver Seminary. Glenn was one of the founding worship leaders for the Desperation Band and has written over 65 worship songs published with Integrity Music, including “Your Name" (co-written with Paul Baloche) and "My Savior Lives" (co-written with Jon Egan). Glenn and his wife Holly and their four kids enjoy life in beautiful Colorado Springs, Colorado.

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Jack Shitama is an author, teacher, speaker and coach. His family systems approach to leadership helps congregational and nonprofit leaders achieve their best spiritually, physically and professionally. 

Jack is the author of Anxious Church, Anxious People: How to Lead Change in an Age of Anxiety and One New Habit, One Big Goal: Change Your Life in 10 Weeks.

Jack and his wife of 37 years, Jodi, have four children.

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Walt Rakowich is a leadership speaker and former executive of Prologis, a global real estate company that was near collapse when he took over as CEO in 2008. During the economic downturn, the Prologis stock had dropped from over $70 per share to approximately $2 per share in 10 months, making it the third-worst performing company in the S&P 500. After Walt joined as CEO, he quickly implemented a change in culture through transparency, orchestrating a dramatic turnaround and restoring its position in the industry.

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Steve is joined by guest AJ Sherrill, as well as Capable Life coach Jimmy Carnes. We chat Enneagram, anxiety, Anglicanism and of course we survive the gauntlet together.

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Steve is joined by guest AJ Sherrill, as well as Capable Life coach Jimmy Carnes. We chat Enneagram, anxiety, Anglicanism and of course we survive the gauntlet together.

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This week's guest: Jared Patrick Boyd is a pastor, spiritual director, and founder of the Order of the Common Life, a missional monastic order for the 21st Century. He is author of Imaginative Prayer: A Yearlong Guide to Your Child’s Spiritual Formation (IVP 2017). He and his wife have 4 girls and live in the west-side neighborhood of Franklinton in Columbus, OH. Jared chats with Steve about formation in kids, how you help a kid encounter God rather than just telling them about God. They also discuss urban ministry and systemic injustice and of course, as per usual, the Gauntlet. This episode also features a bonus case study from capablelife.me

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Dr. Alvin Sanders is President of World Impact and author of Uncommon Church as well as a pastor and urban leader. Dr Sanders talked systemic racism, the distraction of CRT and why a healthy, holistic local church is the best asset for an urban neighborhood. Of course, Dr Sanders gleefully submitted to the gauntlet of anxiety questions.

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Jenni Catron is a powerhouse because she helps people cultivate whole heart, high competence leadership. I loved this conversation with Jenni as she chatted 2021 leadership pressure, time management and of course, the Gauntlet. Jenni consults with teams and individuals to build team health and clarity. She founded the 4SiteGroup and has authored several books including her most recent, The Four Dimensions of Extraordinary Leadership.

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Todd Lollar describes himself as a wheelchair-rolling, speech-impeded, cerebral-palsied minister of the gospel. He is author of 'Weak Is The New Strong' and founder of mobilizeministries.com. He joins Steve to talk overcoming weakness, how he disarms people to engage them and of course he gleefully submits to Steve's gauntlet of anxiety questions.

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On this episode the mics are turned as Aaron Keyes interviews Steve and two of his staff on how they integrate MLA into their staff experience and church life.' And yeah, the audio is a little funky as we're sharing the audio from the 10,000 Fathers Podcast (with permission of course) and the audio is sketchy and it has Aaron Keyes as the host wrapping it up.

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Jon Chasteen is president of The King’s University and lead pastor of Victory Church, a multi-campus church based out of Oklahoma City. Passionate about empowering and equipping the local church through the preparation of Christlike servant-leaders, Dr. Chasteen desires to lead TKU’s faculty and administration with transparency and authenticity. Prior to arriving at TKU in 2018, his experience included seven years of pastoral leadership and six years of administrative leadership in Christian higher education.

Dr. Chasteen has three earned degrees, including a Doctor of Education from Oral Roberts University. He and his wife, Michele, are blessed to enjoy life with their two children, Corey and Jace.

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Rusty George is the Lead Pastor at Real Life Church in Southern California; a multi-site church with campuses in Canyon Country, Lancaster, Simi Valley, Valencia and a large online community.

Rusty is a global speaker, leader and teacher focusing his message on helping people find and follow Jesus. Rusty has also written several books and writes regularly on his site.

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Wade Mullen is an advocate, assistant professor, and author working to bring clarity and freedom to the confusion and captivity that marks abusive situations. His personal experience and ongoing scholarly research enables him to write with both care and expertise. He directs a Master of Divinity program that equips future leaders to emulate the Great Servant, who came not to be served but to serve.

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Tod Bolsinger, MDiv, PhD, is the Executive Director of the De Pree Center Church Leadership Initiative, a Senior Fellow of the De Pree Center for Leadership, and Associate Professor of Leadership Formation at Fuller Theological Seminary. Tod was the founder of the Fuller Leadership Platform, an innovative approach to online formation and leadership development and served as a Vice President of Fuller Seminary for six years. 

He is the author of four books, including the Outreach Magazine Resource of the Year in pastoral leadership, Canoeing the Mountains: Christian Leadership in Uncharted Territory, Leadership for a Time of Pandemic: Practicing Resilience and Tempered Resilience: How Leaders are Formed in the Crucible of Change. He served as a pastor for 27 years. Bolsinger speaks, consults and is an executive coach for corporate, non-profit, educational and church organizations in transformational leadership. His blogs and other resources can be found at depree.org/church. 

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Dr Angie Ward and Emilie Knuass join me to talk about being a woman in church leadership. I learn what I need to know as a man, we talk gender dynamics and the pressure to diminish. Angie is a leadership veteran, author of I Am A Leader and Assistant Director of Denver Seminary's Doctoral program. Emilie Knauss is a preacher at our church, a former intern and is currently studying for her MDiv at Denver Seminary.

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Sean Palmer is Teaching Pastor at Ecclesia Church in Houston. He has authored several books including his most recent, Forty Days on Being a Three. A brief daily reader for Enneagram Threes. Sean took us deep into the vital topic of friendship and loneliness in ministry among other things. A delightful chat full of great wisdom. For those wanting more on these tools, Capablelife.me is now collecting interest for Beta membership.

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Rich Villodas, Lead Pastor of New Life Church, Missio Contributor, and author of this MUST READ book, "The Deeply Formed Life," joins me to talk politics, leadership in COVID, the broad aspects of formation, and of course my gauntlet of anxiety questions.

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Steve continues unpacking the exciting announcement from last week–don't miss out on this chance to learn more about how you can get an invitation to the 2021 initiative!

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Steve and Brendan announce some new tools coming in 2021. They also chat genograms, second order change, and verbatims. For more info on the 2021 initiative, email [email protected].

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Deborah Smith Pegues is a CPA/MBA, certified John Maxwell Leadership Coach and Speaker,

certified behavior consultant, Bible teacher, and international speaker. She has written 17

transformational books, including the bestselling 30 Days to Taming Your Tongue (over one

million sold worldwide) and The One-Minute Money Mentor for Women. She and her husband,

Darnell, have been married for more than 40 years.

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Carey Nieuwhof is a wise guide because of the way he listens, the way he thinks and what he has experienced. He runs the most sought after podcast for Christian leaders in the world and because of the caliber of his guests, he has a front row to some of the best wisdom available. Carey is a gifted interviewer, probing to get to the heart of his guests.

Carey is also a church planter, pastor and author. His recent book Didn’t See It Coming chronicles the challenges of leadership pressure and the book he is working on now shares the proactive side of keeping ahead of those challenges. I loved learning from Carey on this episode!

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Derwin and Vicki Gray have a remarkable story of grace and redemption. Their lives are well designed for them to be the founding pastors of Transformation Church, a church which exemplifies the power of diversity. We discuss their remarkable story, how God has used their experiences and racial challenges.

Derwin has written several books, his most recent being The Good Life, an excellent treatment of the Beatitudes.

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Sharon Hersh is a Licensed Professional Counselor, author, speaker, seminary professor and recovering addict. Not necessarily in that order. Her recent book Beloved: Finding Our Way Back To One Another explores essential topics of shame, contempt, acceptance and love.

On this episode Sharon takes us deep quickly and helps us see how we get in our own way and how to break free and experience true connection with each other.

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Pete Scazzero is, in many ways, the modern Godfather of Family Systems Theory in the Church. In this episode Pete vulnerably shares about the power of genograms, differentiation of self and his own journey of emotional health.

Here is access to Pete’s genogram resources.

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JR Rozko is the Executive Director of The Telos Collective. He leads the Telos team in developing strategic vision, ministry initiatives, and relationships that reflect and extend the formational aims of Telos.

After 12 years of ministry in diverse local church contexts focused on youth, young adults, and congregational formation, JR co-founded Missio Alliance, a trans-tribal, partnership-driven initiative helping thousands of diverse church leaders connect and engage in formational theological conversations related to God’s mission in our day. During his 8.5 years as Missio’s National Director, he also served as chief convener of a landmark meeting, A Confessing Church Consultation: Discerning a Kingdom Way Forward for American Evangelicals, which produced the book, Calling for a Kingdom Evangelicalism.

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Scott Erickson is a touring painter, performance speaker, and creative curate who mixes autobiography, mythology, and aesthetics to create art and moments that speak to our deepest experiences.

Learn more at https://www.scottericksonart.com/

For more information about group coaching or custom webinars for your organization, email [email protected]

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Wesley Hill is associate professor of biblical studies at Trinity School for Ministry in Ambridge, Pennsylvania and a deacon at Trinity Episcopal Cathedral, Pittsburgh. His PhD in New Testament is from Durham University in the UK. He is the author of Washed and Waiting: Reflections on Christian Faithfulness and Homosexuality (Zondervan, second edition 2016), Paul and the Trinity: Persons, Relations, and the Pauline Letters (Eerdmans, 2015), Spiritual Friendship: Finding Love in the Church as a Celibate Gay Christian (Brazos, 2015), and The Lord's Prayer: A Guide to Praying to Our Father (Lexham, 2019). You can find those books here. A contributing editor for Comment magazine, he writes regularly for Christianity Today, The Living Church, and other publications.

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Wesley Hill is associate professor of biblical studies at Trinity School for Ministry in Ambridge, Pennsylvania and a deacon at Trinity Episcopal Cathedral, Pittsburgh. His PhD in New Testament is from Durham University in the UK. He is the author of Washed and Waiting: Reflections on Christian Faithfulness and Homosexuality (Zondervan, second edition 2016), Paul and the Trinity: Persons, Relations, and the Pauline Letters (Eerdmans, 2015), Spiritual Friendship: Finding Love in the Church as a Celibate Gay Christian (Brazos, 2015), and The Lord's Prayer: A Guide to Praying to Our Father (Lexham, 2019). You can find those books here. A contributing editor for Comment magazine, he writes regularly for Christianity Today, The Living Church, and other publications.

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Jimmy Mellado is president of Compassion International and is simply one of the finest leaders I’ve met. Compassion International is of course known for its incredible child sponsorship program, but it is equally a champion of church leaders around the world, including leaders in western countries.

In this interview, Jimmy shared about his own journey and how his personal narrative profoundly impacts his leadership. Compassion International has churches around the world waiting for partnerships to help serve kids and communities. Your church can learn more here.

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Dr. Henry Cloud is a leadership expert, clinical psychologist and New York Times bestselling author. His 45 books, including the iconic Boundaries, have sold nearly 15 million copies worldwide. He has lived and led in the intersection of leadership, theology and psychology longer than some of us have lived.

He recently launched churchesthatheal.com to equip churches to navigate the ever increasing mental health crisis. Henry gave concrete guidelines on how to stay well in ambiguity and his wife Tori even joined for the Gauntlet Round.

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