Product Thinking

In this Christmas Special episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, Melissa Perri brings together the most influential voices and insights from 2024's most downloaded episodes. The episode begins with Steve Portigal's groundbreaking perspectives on user research and its evolution in modern product development, followed by Quincy Hunte's practical insights on navigating decision-making challenges in large organizations like AWS.

The compilation continues with Jeff Gothelf and Josh Seiden's expertise on implementing OKRs for better focus and alignment, and Kate Leto's valuable insights on coaching in product leadership. The episode culminates with Leah Tharin's strategic approach to product-led growth, offering a comprehensive view of how successful products are built and scaled.

Want to revisit the most impactful product management insights of 2024 and prepare for the year ahead? Tune in to this special episode that encapsulates the year's most valuable lessons from industry leaders.

Steve Portigal shares his perspective on how research is about discovering what we don't know we don't know. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining an open mindset in research, particularly when dealing with complex product development challenges. The discussion highlights how traditional research methods have evolved to meet modern product development needs while maintaining their fundamental purpose of uncovering deep user insights.

Quincy Hunte delves into the challenges of making decisions in large, complex organizations like AWS. He addresses the common pattern of decision paralysis, where teams get caught in loops between executive expectations and product management responsibilities. His insights reveal how fear of making mistakes can create environments where decisions stall, and he offers practical solutions for breaking through these organizational barriers.

Jeff Gothelf and Josh Seiden provide valuable insights into setting effective OKRs that align with organizational structure and influence. They explain how different levels of the organization should approach goal-setting, from enterprise-wide objectives to team-specific metrics. The discussion emphasizes the importance of creating clear, focused goals that enable teams to contribute meaningfully to larger organizational objectives.

Kate Leto explores how coaching can transform product leadership by empowering team members to find solutions within themselves. She emphasizes that effective coaching reduces the pressure on leaders to have all the answers, instead creating an environment where team members can develop their problem-solving capabilities. This approach not only builds stronger teams but also creates more sustainable leadership practices.

Leah Tharin shares insights on creating comprehensive business cases that span across all business functions. She discusses the importance of balancing acquisition, retention, and monetization while focusing on activation as a key metric. Her approach demonstrates how growth teams can identify opportunities across different business areas while maintaining focus on long-term customer retention rather than just sales.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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Fabrice des Mazery, Chief Product Officer at productROI joins Melissa Perri on this episode of the Product Thinking podcast, to dive into transforming product managers' mindsets from builders to investors. Fabrice draws from his 22 years of experience, including his journey from a law student to a startup founder, and eventually becoming a product leader at major companies like TripAdvisor's TheFork.

Throughout the discussion, Fabrice shares his perspective on why product managers need to think like investors, focusing on ROI, payback periods, and risk assessment. He emphasizes the importance of moving beyond process frameworks and jargon to speak the language of business, helping stakeholders understand the value and risks of product investments. The conversation covers practical approaches to stakeholder management, building investment forums, and creating balanced product portfolios that consider both risk and return.

Want to learn how to transform your product organization from process-focused to investment-minded? Tune in to hear Fabrice's practical insights and strategies for becoming a more business-savvy product leader.

Fabrice emphasizes the importance of understanding the true cost of product development, using the example of a typical European team costing around 1 million euros annually. He stresses that product managers need to think about when they'll see returns on their investments and calculate the actual cost of features beyond just development time. This mindset shift helps teams make better decisions about resource allocation and prioritization.

Fabrice shares his approach to transforming demanding stakeholders into co-investors by leveraging loss aversion psychology. He explains how to position yourself as a financial advisor who assesses risks and helps stakeholders understand the full investment required, including go-to-market costs. This approach helps create shared accountability and better decision-making processes.

Drawing parallels with VC thinking, Fabrice outlines his framework for building a balanced product portfolio: 60-70% strategic investments aligned with OKRs, some low-hanging fruits for quick wins, and a few high-risk bets that could shape the company's future. He emphasizes the importance of matching investments with team risk tolerance and capabilities to prevent burnout and maintain sustainable growth.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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Mark Rosenberg and Vivian Phinney from Workday join Melissa Perri on this episode of the Product Thinking podcast to dive into product operations. Mark, an experienced leader at Workday, shares his journey in implementing modern product operations within a large-scale organization to meet the financial product needs of over 2,000 customers. He explains how he revamped product ops by establishing transparent prioritization, a well-defined team structure, and a shift toward continuous delivery to streamline complex enterprise products.

Alongside him, Vivian, Sr. Product Manager of Product Operations for the Financials product line at Workday, with a strong background in data science and DevOps, discusses her transition into product operations and her mission to enhance data-driven visibility for leadership. Together, they reveal some of the frameworks that influence their approach, including Playing to Win and the TSIA’s service model, which help unify cross-functional teams around strategic goals.

Tune in to learn how Mark and Vivian tackle the challenges of growth and complexity in enterprise product development, and discover insights on creating streamlined processes that empower teams to deliver impactful, customer-centered solutions.

In the discussion about optimizing transparency in prioritization, Mark outlines a new system of scoring projects across the portfolio, helping teams align on Workday’s most crucial goals while preserving team autonomy. He mentions how Vivian played a crucial role in refining roles and responsibilities within the product teams, from inbound and outbound product management to machine learning integration. This included a focus on continuous delivery, allowing code releases to reach testing environments more frequently for immediate feedback. Mark emphasizes that by refining product organization roles, Workday can better anticipate complex needs and scale effectively, building incremental progress that reassures leadership of their alignment with customer needs and business goals.

Mark and Vivian describe here the symbiotic relationship between central PMO governance and division-specific operational autonomy. Mark highlights the need for central standards for broader policies, release management, and compliance, but underscores the importance of giving divisions the flexibility to adapt these processes to their unique needs. Vivian adds that her product ops role involves customizing central policies for her division and regularly communicating back to central PMO about any proposed changes or potential concerns from her team. This two-way communication enables central PMO to make informed decisions, allowing product ops to tailor centralized frameworks to fit division-specific workflows and protect PMs' time, all while maintaining compliance and reducing risk.

Vivian shares her journey from data science to product operations, explaining how her background in data science equips her with the skills to prototype solutions swiftly for PMs. With a strong grasp of pattern recognition and systems analysis, she can create quick, mock solutions utilizing tools such as Tableau or Jupyter notebooks, providing PMs with tangible tools to assess and refine before any major investment in a scaled solution. Her ability to test ideas with data and iterate based on PM feedback allows her to address their pain points practically and quickly. This agility, she notes, has proven invaluable in supporting PMs directly while keeping internal and central stakeholders aligned.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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Join Melissa Perri in this episode of the Product Thinking podcast as she sits down with Tomer London, co-founder and Chief Product Officer of Gusto. Forget Minimum Viable Products, at Gusto, Tomer explains that their focus is on creating minimum lovable products. Doing so, in such a complex and rapidly evolving landscape, only serves to emphasize the critical role of user experience. He discusses the importance of maintaining a focus on customer needs, even as the company expands its offerings beyond payroll into benefits and HR solutions.

Tomer also reveals Gusto’s unique framework for ensuring delightful user experiences, outlining the three key components: solving problems end-to-end, intuitive design, and creating emotional connections with users. He reflects on the value of patience in product development, sharing lessons learned from his journey over the past 12 years.

Tune in to discover how a commitment to understanding customers and a strategic approach to product development can lead to lasting success in the tech industry.

Tomer shares Gusto’s unique approach to MVPs (Minimum Viable Products) by aiming to create a “Minimum Lovable Product” instead. This approach centered on crafting a simplified version of Gusto’s payroll software that not only worked but delighted users by exceeding their expectations. To achieve this, the team launched an early version that covered only essential payroll functions in California but delivered a smooth, user-friendly experience that left a lasting positive impression. For example, they introduced "employee self-service" to allow employees to input sensitive data independently, removing the awkward in-person interactions previously needed. This focus on delivering a lovable product proved effective, leading to strong word-of-mouth referrals and high Net Promoter Scores (NPS). Tomer’s focus on an MLP rather than just an MVP underscored Gusto’s commitment to building a product that customers would passionately endorse, setting the stage for organic growth and sustained customer loyalty.

Tomer discusses the delicate decision-making process Gusto undertakes when balancing growth with building sustainable operational infrastructure. He highlights that as a product or service gains traction, the company must choose between continuing rapid customer acquisition with a growing operational team or pausing to automate and streamline back-end processes. For startups, where growth is an immediate goal, this decision becomes especially challenging. Gusto approaches this by monitoring unit economics, where they focus on both growth and improving efficiency over time. Each quarter, if Gusto’s unit economics haven’t improved alongside growth, they halt further scaling until they optimize processes. Tomer emphasizes the importance of this dual focus for sustainable scaling, illustrating it as a strategy that Gusto has successfully applied across product offerings, such as health insurance and tax credits.

Tomer shares how Gusto has made compliance a competitive advantage by embedding dedicated product lawyers within certain teams. For products with heavy regulatory needs, such as payroll and financial products, Gusto’s product lawyers work closely with product managers, designers, and engineers to innovate while staying compliant. This proactive approach allows the legal team to co-create solutions rather than act as a “no” force, fostering a collaborative environment where lawyers actively participate in product innovation. By having embedded compliance experts, Gusto turns complex regulatory landscapes into opportunities to deliver secure, innovative products—a capability they have used to create strong relationships with regulatory bodies and navigate challenging compliance requirements effectively.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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Just Eat Takeaway’s Jessica Hall joins Melissa Perri in this episode of the Product Thinking podcast. Chief Product Officer at the food delivery giant, Jessica links up with Melissa to discuss the intricacies of managing a diverse product portfolio across global markets, sharing insights from her journey in navigating the challenges of integrating multiple brands, post-merger and establishing a unified customer experience. She elaborates on the importance of understanding local markets while leveraging a centralized platform to enhance speed and efficiency in product development.

Jessica also reveals how her team prioritizes customer closeness through innovative programs, allowing product managers to gain firsthand experience of the customer journey.

She’s not all positive about AI adoption though and is honest about both the potential and the pitfalls, including the often-overlooked costs and the importance of building a sustainable ecosystem around new technologies. She’s also clear on the need to develop diverse teams in order to be able to combat bias in AI solutions and highlights the significance of user transparency in building trust. 

Tune in to discover how strategic thinking and a customer-first approach can lead to innovative, responsible AI implementations that truly resonate with users.

Jessica passionately advocates for the principle of "customer closeness," highlighting how integral it is for product managers to engage directly with customers. She has initiated a program called "Just Eat Takeaway Meets," which allows team members to immerse themselves in various roles within the company – whether that be delivering food, working in customer service, or experiencing the restaurant environment firsthand. This practice fosters a deeper understanding of the customer's journey and the challenges they face, which can be invaluable for product development.

Jessica and Melissa get deep into the costs of AI, both the well-known and hidden costs that can appear unwanted during implementation. While many view AI and large language models (LLMs) as cost-cutting tools, the reality can be quite different. She discusses how organizations often overlook the full spectrum of costs associated with implementing AI technologies, such as self-hosting on platforms like AWS, which can be quite expensive. There's also the ongoing expense of maintaining skilled teams who can effectively manage and evolve these technologies to contend with. Jessica points out that businesses need to assess not just the upfront costs but also the long-term financial implications tied to customer acquisition and conversion metrics. This broader understanding helps organizations avoid the pitfalls of adopting AI for the sake of it without a clear strategy, ensuring they approach such implementations with a realistic mindset.

Jessica advocates for the importance of diversity in teams working on AI initiatives. She believes that having a variety of perspectives leads to more innovative solutions and a greater understanding of the diverse user base that these technologies serve. She stresses that it's not enough to have a team that simply identifies as diverse; team members must actively engage with different viewpoints and experiences. Jessica encourages her team to seek out customer insights from varied backgrounds, promoting empathy and a deeper understanding of user needs. This inclusivity not only sparks creativity but also drives better product outcomes, ensuring that the solutions developed resonate with a broader audience and address underrepresented issues.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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This time on the Product Thinking Podcast, Melissa Perri is joined by P.J. Linarducci, Chief Product Officer at Thumbtack, to explore the complexities of product leadership in both large and small-scale organizations. P.J. shares insights from his journey, starting with his formative years at Meta and his transition to Thumbtack, where he embraced the role of leading the entire product organization. He delves into the significant mindset shift from being one of many leaders at a large company to owning full responsibility at a smaller, more agile company. P.J. also highlights the challenges of evolving Thumbtack from a marketplace model to a holistic home management platform, requiring new approaches to both product strategy and company culture. Tune in to learn how product managers can influence without authority.

PJ explains how Thumbtack's product direction shifted from being a simple marketplace to a more comprehensive service aimed at helping homeowners navigate the complexities of managing their homes. He also explores the finicky challenge of balancing innovation (zero-to-one work) with optimizing and growing an established value proposition, sharing his insights on how product leaders can drive strategy and foster collaboration across teams without relying solely on authority.

Tune in to hear PJ's take on leadership, influence, and how Thumbtack is transforming the home services industry, all while empowering small businesses and enhancing customer experiences.

In discussing leadership dynamics, PJ emphasizes the importance of operating with influence rather than relying solely on authority. He cautions against the dangers of using positional power to drive decisions, as it can stifle open communication and feedback. Instead, he advocates for product managers to act as "organizers in chief," facilitating conversations among team members and synthesizing diverse perspectives into cohesive strategies. By encouraging collaborative decision-making, product managers can foster a culture where ideas are enhanced rather than simply followed, ensuring that the best solutions emerge from the collective input of the team.

Here, PJ emphasizes the importance of focusing on core customer hypotheses when developing a minimum viable product (MVP). To do so, he brings in a cupcake analogy to illustrate that while an MVP must provide value, it doesn't need to be a complete version of the final product. The cupcake serves as a metaphor for distilling a product idea down to its essential components. PJ believes that product teams should prioritize validating the most critical hypotheses before building features, avoiding the comfort of easily built components like the pedestal for a singing monkey. By tackling the most challenging aspects of the product first, teams can ensure they are addressing essential user needs, rather than simply checking off boxes with features that may not contribute to the product's core value.

PJ shares with Melissa some insights from his experience at Thumbtack, where they aimed to reduce user friction by fostering a deeper understanding of customers' needs. Instead of only asking for minimal information to facilitate immediate interactions, the team expanded their onboarding process to gather richer data about users' goals and aspirations for their homes. Surprisingly, users responded positively to this approach when they understood the value proposition behind sharing more information. This revelation illustrates that when users see clear benefits, they are willing to provide sensitive data, challenging the common belief that asking for too much information creates friction.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, Melissa Perri sits down with BJ Boyle, Chief Product Officer at PointClickCare, to explore the dynamic landscape of product management in the health tech industry.

One area in which BJ strikes a chord is how fostering strong relationships with the executive team can drive success, highlighting the need for product managers to connect deeply with their users. With more than two decades worth of experience in the health tech space, BJ has a lot of insights to share from his personal journey, including lessons learned during his transition to the C-suite

He delves into the unique challenges of managing product strategy in a rapidly evolving industry, emphasizing the importance of aligning product development with market needs and regulatory changes. He also makes clear the importance of balancing domain expertise with product management acumen and engineering understanding, and the value of cross-functional collaboration in building effective product teams. 

Tune in to explore how PointClickCare is innovating within the healthcare sector and to gain practical advice for navigating the complexities of product management in health tech.

BJ discusses the critical importance of exposing product managers to real-world market scenarios, especially in the complex world of health tech, where user personas like nurses and doctors don't operate in the same way as everyday consumers. He explains that getting product managers out into the field—shadowing nurses or interacting with real users—is key to driving better product outcomes. Through customer advisory boards, partnerships, and the work of a growing UX research team, PointClickCare is ensuring its product managers are connected with the actual environments their products serve. This approach helps them better understand user pain points and needs, even in highly regulated industries like healthcare.

Here, BJ highlights the challenge of balancing domain expertise with product management skills in the healthcare industry. He explains that early in his career, many product managers came from user roles, like nurses or business managers, which resulted in strong domain knowledge but a lack of core product management capabilities. As a solution, BJ discusses the importance of blending product managers from various backgrounds, including those with classical product training and those with domain expertise. This mix allows teams to execute more efficiently and avoid the pitfalls of either too much backlog or not understanding the healthcare space enough to make informed decisions.

BJ expresses excitement about the potential of AI and technology to transform healthcare, especially in addressing staffing shortages. With AI-driven tools like predictive models and smart documentation, he sees an opportunity to alleviate administrative burdens on healthcare providers, allowing them to focus more on patient care. He discusses how the industry is evolving from simply meeting regulatory requirements to leveraging technology to improve staff efficiency and patient outcomes. He also shares his personal connection to healthcare, which fuels his passion for enhancing care transitions and eliminating outdated practices like relying on fax machines.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, Vishal Kapoor, Senior Vice President of Product at Affirm, joins Melissa Perri to dive into the intricacies of building and scaling products in the fintech space. Vishal shares his journey through 15+ years of product management. The episode offers deep insight into not just what Affirm is up to, but into the very bones of the culture that drives their product development.

The conversation covers Affirm's strategic approach to launching its new Affirm card, emphasizing the importance of real-time feedback loops, data-driven decision-making, and prioritizing customer experience. Vishal also highlights how the company uses experimentation platforms to test new features with minimal lift for its merchant partners and explores the art of balancing long-term roadmaps with agile responses to customer needs.

Melissa and Vishal also get into the important topic of how product managers can cultivate strong cross-functional partnerships, especially with legal and compliance teams, to navigate industry regulations while maintaining innovation. 

Tune in to learn how Affirm is shaping the future of fintech and get practical advice for building adaptable product strategies in complex industries.

In discussing the go-no-go decision-making process, Vishal reveals Affirm’s product culture, which thrives on fast-paced iteration. The company introduced the digital card as a beta product, learned from its success, and evolved the offering into a physical card. This iterative approach ensures constant feedback loops with customers and allows the product to evolve quickly based on real-world data. Vishal stresses the importance of identifying the right problems and empowering teams to run at the solution space with speed and precision.

Here, Vishal describes the meticulous process Affirm follows before launching major products. Returning to the topic of the "go-no-go" meetings, Vishal explains this process in greater detail – these are meetings held before the launch of a major product. In them, all aspects of the product, from quality to customer support readiness, are evaluated against pre-established exit criteria. This process ensures that all necessary conditions are met before launch, even if it requires delays to maintain high customer experience standards.

When discussing the challenges of compliance in fintech, Vishal describes how Affirm integrates legal and compliance teams into the product development process. Rather than seeing these functions as roadblocks, Affirm treats them as collaborative partners. This proactive approach ensures that compliance considerations are factored into product decisions from the start, preventing delays and fostering innovation within regulatory boundaries.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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Robin Daniels is on the latest episode of the Product Thinking Podcast to discuss how it’s possible to transform working cultures through the careful construction of a supportive community atmosphere. Robin, Chief Business and Product Officer at Zensai, explains to Melissa Perri how his remarkable journey through product management and marketing across leading tech companies like Salesforce and LinkedIn has led him to where he is today. 

Robin has held leadership positions at renowned tech companies such as Salesforce, LinkedIn, Box, and Matterport and points out the necessity for modern leaders to understand the interconnectedness of product, sales, and marketing to drive effective go-to-market strategies.

The pair also ponder the question of what sparks joy in a corporate setting, and they discuss how a weekly check-in system that promotes self-reflection among employees is a far more functional system than the outmoded annual performance review method of performance management.

Robin’s insights serve as a rallying cry for leaders to embrace new ways of thinking about performance management so be sure to tune in now!

Towards the beginning of the episode, Robin highlights the importance of reducing friction at every step of the customer journey, especially in product-led growth (PLG) models. To illustrate the value of this, he shares the example of launching Salesforce Chatter's freemium model via a Super Bowl ad, where the challenge was to optimize signups for mobile devices with lower capabilities. The takeaway that he gleaned from this was that reducing friction—from awareness to onboarding—ensures a smoother experience for customers and can lead to higher engagement and conversion rates.

Robin also talks about how companies should respond to unexpected use cases that emerge after launching a product. He recounts his experience at Matterport, where releasing a smartphone version of their 3D camera solution led to 80,000 signups in one week. Unexpected users, such as large retail companies, adapted the tool for inventory and brand management, prompting the company to rethink their product vision and unlock further growth. This example illustrates the need to adapt product strategies based on customer feedback and new use cases.

One area of product development that Robin shares a critique of is around the traditional annual performance review. He notes its disconnect from the real-time feedback that today’s workforce desires. To reinforce his ideas in this area, he shares insights from a survey he conducted, revealing that employees actually tend to prefer more frequent performance insights, such as weekly or monthly updates. This approach not only reduces the stress associated with year-end evaluations but also allows for ongoing course corrections and personal development. By leveraging AI to compile achievements from weekly check-ins, Robin’s company aims to simplify the process, making performance evaluations more reflective of an employee's journey and growth throughout the year.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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Mercedes Chatfield-Taylor, Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer at Artico Search, Inc. and a top recruiter specializing in leadership roles for scale-up companies, returns to chat with Melissa Perri on this episode of Product Thinking. Together they discuss the evolving CEO landscape, particularly the increasing importance of collaboration across functions in lean organizations and the growing demand for leaders focused on profitability and sustainability. Mercedes shares insights into the typical paths to becoming a CEO, including from product leadership roles, and the skills needed to transition successfully. 

As far as Mercedes is concerned, there’s a core set of skills and talents that CPOs can bring to the table as a CEO, but finding that path and applying them is the challenge. The episode explores how focusing on product empathy, deep customer understanding, and cross-functional collaboration will aid aspiring CEOs from product backgrounds. They also touch on the value of aligning with sales, operations, and finance. 

Want to learn more about what leadership traits will set product leaders up to succeed in the CEO space? Tune in to the full episode now.

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Mercedes highlights a crucial shift in the CEO landscape from a “grow at all costs” mentality to a focus on profitability, sustainability, and scalability. She explains that the most sought-after CEOs today are those who have successfully managed transitions to profitability, while maintaining operational efficiency. These leaders know how to get the most out of lean teams by fostering collaboration across departments like sales, marketing, and engineering. In today’s business environment, it’s no longer enough to grow; CEOs must do more with less and lead cross-functional, highly collaborative teams to thrive.

Mercedes highlights the importance of a Chief Product Officer (CPO) working closely with the Chief Revenue Officer (CRO) and sales teams to succeed in transitioning to a CEO role. She emphasizes that CPOs need to have a deep understanding of how products are sold and should actively participate in sales processes, including joining sales calls and interacting directly with customers. This hands-on experience with the sales cycle not only provides empathy for the challenges of sales but also makes the transition to CEO much smoother, as it fosters stronger alignment with revenue generation. Mercedes shares an example of a CPO who successfully made this transition by building relationships across the organization, eventually becoming a CEO highly respected by sales teams.

Mercedes argues that CPOs are natural successors for CEO roles across various industries, not just in SaaS or product-led growth (PLG) companies. Whether in finance, automotive, or real estate, a CPO who understands the product deeply and has strong commercial acumen is well-positioned to take on the CEO role. She cites examples of successful transitions in industries ranging from fintech to automotive, emphasizing that CPOs who work closely with sales, marketing, and finance and who are exposed to board-level discussions can smoothly make the leap to CEO. The key is ensuring they round out their skill set with experiences beyond product management.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, host Melissa Perri sits down with Sean Kim, former Head of Product at TikTok and a key figure behind the platform’s innovative features, including the popular Stitch functionality. Sean shares his insights on product management gleaned from his extensive experience at both Amazon and TikTok, emphasizing the importance of customer behavior in guiding product development.

Sean discusses how his team at Amazon optimized customer retention through data-driven strategies, ultimately increasing Prime subscriptions by honing in on customer benefits and by automating messaging. Transitioning to TikTok, he reveals how he leveraged similar principles to foster a culture of empowerment among product managers, enabling them to own their projects and drive impactful results. He highlights the need for clarity in vision and metrics, ensuring that teams are aligned and able to innovate freely within a structured framework.

Whether you're a product manager, leader, or simply interested in the tech industry's evolution, this episode offers invaluable lessons on creating meaningful products that resonate with users and sustain growth in an ever-changing landscape.

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Sean’s success in improving Amazon Prime retention relied on identifying and promoting high-value actions—specific behaviors that correlated strongly with long-term retention. These actions included things like taking advantage of Prime shipping, streaming Prime Video, or using Prime Music within the first few days of membership. Through data analysis and cohort studies, Sean’s team learned that customers who used multiple benefits early in their membership had much higher retention rates.

His approach was deeply data-driven, utilizing machine learning to analyze customer behaviors and run tests across different markets. The team automated processes to test various hypotheses, such as which benefits to promote to specific demographic groups, and then used those insights to optimize the customer experience. This level of personalization and testing at scale helped Amazon Prime develop a highly effective strategy for improving customer retention through tailored engagement.

Sean shared insights into how both Amazon and TikTok foster a sense of ownership among product managers (PMs), which empowers them to make decisions and execute on company goals. At both companies, PMs were responsible for identifying the problems they wanted to solve in alignment with key business objectives like improving retention or daily active users (DAUs). Sean highlighted the autonomy given to PMs, noting that no one dictated specific actions, but rather, PMs were expected to create their own strategies and negotiate the resources needed for execution.

Sean’s development of the Stitch feature at TikTok provides an example of how great products can emerge from observing user behavior. The feature wasn’t initially part of TikTok’s product roadmap; instead, it came about after noticing that users were downloading videos, adding their reactions via third-party software, and re-uploading them. Recognizing this clunky process, Sean’s team worked on integrating the behavior directly into the app, thus making it much easier for users to create content by stitching their reactions with other videos.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, host Melissa Perri chats with Brian Fugere, Chief Product Officer at Symplr, an expert with decades of experience in healthcare technology and enterprise solutions. Brian shares valuable lessons from his diverse career, offering a behind-the-scenes look at how Symplr approaches innovation in the complex world of healthcare operations and compliance.

Tune in to hear Brian’s insights on leading product teams in a rapidly evolving industry, and how he balances customer demands with strategic decision-making. He also dives into the importance of simplifying products for enterprise clients, while tackling the unique challenges of navigating regulatory requirements in healthcare.

Throughout the conversation, Brian emphasizes the need for clear communication, empowering teams to deliver value, and fostering a culture of collaboration that puts both the customer and product at the forefront. 

Whether you're in healthcare, product management, or navigating leadership challenges in any sector, this episode provides actionable advice to drive meaningful impact through your product strategy.

Brian addresses the decision-making process behind building a product in-house versus acquiring it. He states that time and resources are the two critical factors in this equation. The company evaluates whether acquiring an existing solution would be faster and more cost-effective than building one. Brian is keen to stress that a company must also assess its internal competencies when making this decision. Symplr, for example, is better at buying existing solutions and optimizing them, rather than building something from scratch, as they’ve built teams specifically skilled in acquisitions and improvements.

In healthcare, balancing subject matter expertise with core product management skills is critical. Brian explains that in assembling product teams, he intentionally mixes product experts with subject matter experts to foster cross-learning. As he points out, healthcare is a particularly complex field where deep domain knowledge is crucial for addressing nuanced customer needs, but pure product expertise is still required in order to run processes efficiently. For example, ex-nurses who deeply understand the intricacies of healthcare systems may not have the product management background but are invaluable for shaping the right solutions. Getting that balance of expertise right is vital for such an important field.

When it comes to migrating customers from older platforms to newer ones, Fugere outlines the complex balancing act involved. Simpler has a dedicated migration team, reflecting how integral this process is to their strategy. Fugere's guidance to product managers is to aim for "sufficient parity" with the older platform to facilitate a smooth transition. However, they also need to offer enticing new features that encourage users to migrate willingly. The key is identifying high-priority pain points from customer feedback and rethinking problematic areas to add real value—like applying AI to automate parts of the scheduling process in their workforce management product.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, host Melissa Perri sits down with Blake Morgan, a seasoned expert in customer experience, best-selling author, and someone with a career spanning major companies like Coca-Cola and AT&T.  Blake dives deep into the evolution of customer experience, sharing insights from her 18-year journey in the field and offering a fresh perspective on what it means to truly prioritize the customer.

Tune in to discover how Blake's book, "The Eight Laws of Customer-Focused Leadership," provides a roadmap for becoming a transformative leader who puts customers first. She discusses practical strategies for integrating customer feedback into your organization, avoiding common pitfalls in measuring success, and the role of leadership in driving a unified customer experience.

Throughout the episode, Blake highlights the importance of breaking down silos, engaging directly with customers, and fostering a culture where every employee takes ownership of the customer experience. Whether you're a product manager, UX designer, or leader in any industry, this conversation will inspire you to rethink how you approach customer-centricity and drive meaningful change within your organization.

Blake starts by delving into the core principles of customer-focused leadership, as outlined in her book, "Eight Laws of Customer-Focused Leadership." She explains that being customer-focused starts with the leader's mindset, and it’s crucial for executives to wake up every day excited to serve both customers and employees. The modern customer-focused leader needs to be deeply involved in the trenches, just like Lindsay Snyder, the President of In-N-Out, who frequently works alongside her team members in the stores. Blake points out that this hands-on leadership approach not only builds a strong connection with employees but also helps leaders stay attuned to the reality of day-to-day operations.

Blake highlights the critical mistake companies make when they prioritize profit over customer care. She points to T-Mobile’s "Un-Carrier" strategy, led by former CEO John Legere, as a model for customer-centric transformation. In 2012, T-Mobile shifted the telecom industry by eliminating hidden fees and complex contracts that frustrated customers. This approach helped them rise from a lesser-known player to a major industry leader. John Legere's leadership style evolved alongside the company’s philosophy—he embraced a more relatable and bold persona, which resonated with both employees and customers. As Blake explains, his consistent focus on creating a customer-friendly brand was instrumental in T-Mobile's growth.

Blake recounts the case of Air Canada’s chatbot failure as an example of how poor AI implementation can lead to severe customer dissatisfaction. A customer was misinformed by the airline's chatbot about a bereavement reimbursement policy, leading to a legal case when the customer followed incorrect advice and was denied compensation. Air Canada’s failure to take responsibility for the chatbot’s error worsened the situation, resulting in negative PR. Blake criticizes companies that release faulty chatbots without adequate testing or fail to uphold their customer promise when mistakes happen.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, host Melissa Perri welcomes Shruti Patel, Executive Vice President and CPO Business Banking at U.S. Bank, to share her expertise on navigating the complexities of product development within large financial institutions. 

Discover how Shruti's approach to product leadership is driving transformation in business banking and learn actionable insights for maintaining agility and relevance in a rapidly evolving market.

The conversation also covers the differences between product management in traditional banking sectors and companies like Shopify. 

Overall, Shruti emphasizes the importance of continuous improvement in existing products and customer experiences, while also keeping an eye on emerging trends and technologies. 

At the top of this episode, Shruti highlights the distinct differences between traditional banking institutions and modern fintech companies, particularly from the perspective of product management. As she explains, while fintechs like Shopify operate with a narrow focus and modern tech stacks, banks like US Bank handle a broader range of services and face the complexities of managing legacy systems. These systems, having been built over decades, often necessitate a more deliberate and slower approach to innovation. Shruti is keen to underscore that the responsibility of managing people’s money in a highly regulated environment further complicates the speed and agility typically associated with product development in fintech.

In discussing her work at U.S. Bank, Shruti elaborates by insights gained from U.S. Bank’s annual survey of small businesses, which identified cash flow management and access to capital as two of the most significant challenges faced by these enterprises. Shruti emphasizes that understanding these pain points is crucial in shaping the bank’s strategy to provide digital tools that not only facilitate financial transactions but also offer businesses valuable insights into their cash flow.

Shruti shares with Melissa her insights on how large enterprises can successfully transition from a project-based approach to a product-centric one. She advises that organizations start by clearly defining their core product sets and mapping the customer journeys associated with these products. This involves understanding how customers interact with products and identifying pain points across these touchpoints. She also goes on to emphasize the importance of organizing the business around these customer journeys to ensure that all efforts are aligned with enhancing the customer experience.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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Vijay Pitchumani is the esteemed guest of Melissa Perri on this episode of the Product Thinking podcast. Vijay, a renowned expert in product strategy, and Director of Product at Okta, shares his insights on the essential role of product managers in platform teams and the unique challenges they face.

Across the pair’s discussion, Vijay and Melissa delve into the critical function of product managers in platform environments. Vijay emphasizes that despite their focus on backend systems, platform teams require strong product management to define and track success metrics. He explains how engineers, while highly skilled, often need guidance on setting clear, actionable success metrics that align with customer needs and enable rapid iteration. This includes breaking down objectives into smaller, measurable targets that facilitate ongoing customer feedback and platform evolution.

The conversation also explores the potential for experimentation within platform teams. Vijay shares his experience with API-first approaches, advocating for the release of APIs to a select group of customers, to gather early feedback, before fully developing user-facing components.

Tune in to this episode to gain valuable insights into the evolving role of product managers in platform teams and learn how to navigate the challenges of scaling and innovating in the platform space.

Developing a vision for a platform is distinct from crafting a vision for user-facing products. Vijay emphasizes the need for platform PMs to think long-term and anticipate future use cases and non-functional requirements. Unlike user-facing products where MVPs can evolve incrementally, platform decisions must account for scalability and future capabilities from the outset. This involves providing engineering teams with a clear understanding of market trends and future needs to guide technology choices and ensure the platform can evolve to meet new demands.

When it comes to justifying experiments to platform teams, Vijay advises framing them as short-term, time-boxed experiments that demonstrate potential value with minimal investment. He suggests that PMs propose experiments with clear, short-term goals (e.g., two weeks of effort) to test hypotheses and validate ideas. This approach helps in avoiding waste and ensures that the experiments are manageable and deliver actionable insights quickly. By setting clear expectations and timelines, PMs can secure buy-in from stakeholders and ensure that experiments align with broader business objectives, reducing the risk of wasted effort and resources.

Vijay discusses the rotation of PMs across different teams and projects as a strategy for both career development and ensuring diverse experiences. By rotating PMs, organizations can keep them engaged and provide them with varied experiences, which helps in identifying their strengths and weaknesses. This practice also ensures that PMs bring fresh perspectives to different problems and projects. To support this, he advises setting clear expectations and providing sufficient onboarding time to help PMs acclimate to new challenges. This approach not only enhances PMs’ skills but also benefits the organization by leveraging diverse insights and experiences.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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Melissa Perri welcomed Tamar Yehoshua, President of Product and Technology at Glean, to the Product Thinking podcast for an in-depth conversation about the rapidly evolving landscape of AI and enterprise productivity. Tamar, with her extensive background in AI and search technologies, dives into Glean’s journey of integrating cutting-edge retrieval-augmented generation (RAG) technology to enhance enterprise search and knowledge management.

In this episode, Tamar shares how Glean’s approach to AI is revolutionizing the way businesses retrieve and utilize information, emphasizing the importance of balancing search relevance, personalization, and security. She discusses the challenges of building an AI-driven product that adheres to strict data permissions while delivering actionable insights. Tamar also provides a behind-the-scenes look at the engineering-heavy structure of Glean’s team and how senior product managers play a critical role in bridging the gap between technical excellence and user needs.

If you’re interested in how to navigate the complexities of AI innovation, optimize enterprise workflows, and future-proof your product strategies, this episode is a must-listen.

When discussing Glean's approach to enterprise search, Tamar emphasizes the paramount importance of security and privacy. Glean’s platform deals with vast amounts of proprietary information within enterprises, making it essential to ensure robust security measures. Tamar explains that the platform is designed to adhere strictly to the privacy controls and policies of various SaaS applications, requiring meticulous attention to detail to maintain compliance. She highlights that Glean offers both a hosted service and the option for customers to host the service within their own cloud instances, ensuring a high level of data isolation and security.

This focus on security is critical for building trust with enterprise clients, particularly when dealing with large organizations that have stringent security requirements. Tamar’s insight into the complexities of securing enterprise data showcases the deep technical challenges involved in developing a product like Glean. It also reflects the broader industry trend where security and data privacy have become fundamental selling points for technology solutions, especially in the enterprise space.

Tamar Yehoshua emphasizes the challenges of integrating large language models (LLMs) with enterprise data. Unlike general LLMs, enterprise solutions require sophisticated retrieval mechanisms to ensure that only authorized and relevant information is accessed. Tamar explains that simply dumping all enterprise data into an LLM is not feasible due to issues with permissions and the specificity required in enterprise contexts. Glean’s approach is to index all enterprise data, enforce metadata-based permissions, and personalize results based on the user’s role and relationships within the company.

In discussing the future of AI, Tamar touches on the emerging trend of agentic workflows, where AI systems can perform multi-step tasks autonomously. Although these systems are still in their infancy and require user intervention, Tamar is optimistic that they will soon become more reliable. She believes that as AI models improve, these workflows will enable users to offload routine tasks, allowing them to focus on more strategic and creative work.

Tamar envisions a future where AI significantly enhances workplace productivity by handling time-consuming tasks such as summarizing meeting notes or updating databases. She also addresses concerns about AI potentially replacing jobs, advising professionals to embrace AI as a tool to improve their own efficiency and capabilities.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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Melissa Perri sat down with Vrushali Paunikar, Chief Product Officer of Carta, on this episode of the Product Thinking podcast. In this fascinating discussion, Vrushali explores her journey in product management and how Carta has redefined traditional practices in the finance and accounting space. With over a decade of experience, Vrushali shares how Carta's innovative approach to building a custom general ledger and managing equity compensation has propelled their success. 

She details the challenges and breakthroughs of creating a tailored solution that integrates seamlessly with existing systems and how a fresh perspective can drive meaningful innovation. Additionally, Vrushali offers insights into the art and science of equity compensation for startups, emphasizing the importance of context and data.

If you're keen to understand how to challenge the status quo, foster innovation, and leverage data to make informed decisions in product management, this episode is a must-listen.

Vrushali highlighted the challenges of balancing depth and breadth in product development at Carta. Initially, the company experimented with a wide range of ideas, focusing on solving smaller, niche problems that often led to the discovery of larger, more impactful opportunities. This approach allowed Carta to experiment and innovate, identifying which solutions resonated with the market and were worth scaling.

However, as Carta matured, the focus shifted from broad experimentation to deepening its existing product lines. Vrushali emphasized the importance of discipline in this phase, where the company now prioritizes going deep on proven products to create truly differentiated experiences. 

Vrushali stressed the importance of validating innovations to ensure they are solving real customer problems and not just innovating for the sake of it. She described how Carta has built a unique foundation that unlocks capabilities no one else in the industry can replicate. However, she also recognized the importance of confirming that these "unlocks" are actually desired by customers. Paunikar explained her process of sending out strategy snippets to customers and network contacts to gather feedback, which helped them refine their approach and invalidate ideas that didn't resonate.

In discussing equity compensation for early startup employees, Paunikar offered valuable advice grounded in both data and experience. She recommended that founders and those looking to join startups use Carta's data as a reference point for making informed decisions about equity distribution. However, she also noted that equity compensation is highly context-dependent, varying based on factors such as the employee’s experience, the value they bring to the company, and the stage of the company’s growth.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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Melissa Perri sat down with Christopher Li, SVP of Product at Xactly on this episode of the Product Thinking podcast. In this enthralling episode, Christopher shares his journey from engineering to product management and the challenges his company faced in adopting the Scaled Agile Framework.

Christopher has spent the past 15 years in product management, working through different functions and eventually becoming the SVP of Product at Xactly, an enterprise software provider. Christopher explains that when he joined the company, it lacked maturity in terms of roadmap and product management practices. To address this, they instituted the Scaled Agile Framework (SAFe) to complement their annual roadmap planning process, which allowed them to balance predictability and innovation.

If you're interested in learning about navigating enterprise software and finding the right balance between planning and execution, this is the episode for you.

Christopher discusses the approach he took to balance predictability and innovation at Xactly by phasing in an agile methodology alongside the Scaled Agile Framework (SAFe). Recognizing the limitations of an annual roadmap in maintaining both long-term vision and day-to-day execution, Chris and his team introduced a quarterly discipline through SAFe. This method allowed them to complement their existing roadmap with a more adaptable and dynamic approach. However, Chris also acknowledges the challenges that came with adopting SAFe, particularly in terms of change management and process fatigue. Despite widespread buy-in, the sheer number of moving parts within SAFe necessitated a gradual integration rather than a wholesale adoption, which ultimately allowed for more tailored and effective process improvements.

Christopher discusses the transition from having distinct roles for Product Owners (POs) and Product Managers (PMs) to a more integrated approach. Historically, these roles were segregated, with POs focused internally on the R&D organization, while PMs were more market and customer-facing. However, Li's team found more long-term benefits in merging these roles into a hierarchical structure. As POs gain experience in implementing and shipping products, they naturally transition to PM roles, taking on market-facing responsibilities while delegating internal tasks to incoming POs. This shift not only enhances collaboration but also boosts morale by offering a clearer path for career progression, allowing individuals to explore various facets of product management based on their interests and strengths.

Li highlights the value of cross-functional experience in developing strong leadership within product management. He notes that many of the best leaders he has worked with have experience in various roles beyond product management, such as sales or engineering. This diverse experience gives them a well-rounded perspective on the business, enabling them to better understand how different teams and functions operate and how they can work together effectively. Li mentions that when he started his career, product management was not as well-defined, and people often found their way into the field through other roles. This organic approach helped build a broader business understanding, which is now more structured due to the growing allure of product management as a career path.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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Melissa Douros is the guest on this episode of the Product Thinking podcast and she sat down with our host, Melissa Perri, to discuss her career journey and role as the Chief Product Officer at Green Dot, a modern fintech company. 

The conversation covers how Green Dot builds their best-in-class financial products and offers an innovative consumer banking product.

Melissa started out wanting to be a teacher, but eventually found her way into operations and project management before transitioning to leading products in financial services, and she shares that story with us here.

Overall, this podcast conversation highlights the importance of effective communication, collaboration, and the role of product management in driving successful customer experiences in the financial industry.

Melissa discusses Green Dot’s innovative approach to scaling its platform through reusable architecture. Traditionally, as fintech companies scale, they often build new systems or products from scratch each time they onboard a new partner or introduce a new service. Green Dot is shifting away from this model by adopting a "build once, use many" approach. This reusable architecture allows the company to streamline the integration process with new partners and products, making it simpler and more efficient to do business with Green Dot. This transformation aims to enhance the company's ability to deliver scalable and flexible solutions, reducing the incremental effort and complexity associated with each new product or partnership.

Melissa highlights the nuanced differences between product management in banking as a service (BaaS) and traditional banks. In traditional banks, product management often focuses on distinct financial products like credit cards or loans, each managed by specialized teams. However, in a BaaS model, product management needs to accommodate both direct customers and partner organizations, each with their distinct needs. This dual-customer approach requires a more complex product management strategy that addresses the needs of both internal partners and external end-users, making the process more intricate compared to traditional banking.

Melissa discusses the challenge of balancing predictability with innovation in product management. She emphasizes the importance of maintaining predictability and meeting deadlines while still allowing room for creativity and innovation. Melissa suggests that a well-defined process is essential, but it should be flexible enough to accommodate innovative thinking and iterative improvements. At Green Dot, this balance is achieved by setting up processes that ensure reliable delivery while also carving out time for teams to focus on innovation and creative problem-solving.

To foster this balance, Melissa advocates for creating structured time for teams to brainstorm and explore new ideas, separate from their regular project work. This approach ensures that innovation does not get stifled by rigid processes and that teams can continually evolve and improve their products. 

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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In this episode of the Product Thinking podcast, Melissa Perri sits down with Trisha Price, Chief Product Officer at Pendo. They explore the evolving landscape of product management, including the shifting role of product operations and the integration of tools like Pendo in enhancing productivity.

The conversation also covers the roles of product operations and product marketing at Pendo, as well as the importance of setting product strategy and balancing short-term needs with long-term vision. Excitingly, they have recently launched new tools like Session Replay and Pendo Listen, which focus on qualitative data and help prioritize product enhancements based on customer feedback.

This episode provides valuable insights into product management and the use of AI and is not one to be missed.

Pendo's vision, since its founding, has been to be a comprehensive platform for product managers, not just an analytics or digital adoption tool. Trisha highlights recent developments, such as the launch of Session Replay and Listen, the latter being an AI-driven tool to help prioritize customer feedback. These advancements align with Pendo's goal of continuously executing their vision. Trisha is excited about the ongoing execution of this vision, emphasizing the integration of qualitative and quantitative data. By combining usage data with customer feedback, Pendo aims to proactively address customer needs and enhance their product offerings. This holistic approach ensures that product managers can make informed decisions and prioritize effectively.

Trisha discusses the challenge of balancing short-term market needs with the long-term vision of the company. She emphasizes Pendo's core value of a "maniacal focus on the customer," which means prioritizing and addressing any bugs or issues that negatively impact customer experience. Trisha believes that solving current customer pain points and innovation can coexist. For example, when large language models emerged, Pendo's team quickly brainstormed how these models could address existing customer frustrations, such as the time-consuming task of summarizing customer feedback manually. This approach not only solves immediate problems but also leverages new technologies to enhance their product offerings. Additionally, Pendo fosters innovation through hackathons, allowing the team to work on creative ideas that often end up integrated into their products.

Trisha explains the importance of maintaining a culture of innovation at Pendo. She highlights the significance of hackathons, where the product, design, and engineering teams have the freedom to work on their ideas. This practice not only fosters creativity but also demonstrates the company's commitment to valuing and implementing innovative ideas. Pendo also emphasizes the importance of leadership engagement, with executives actively participating in reviewing hackathon projects and awarding the best ones. This recognition and involvement from leadership reinforce the value placed on innovation. Additionally, Pendo ensures that every idea is evaluated based on its potential customer value, maintaining a balance between innovation and customer-centricity. Trisha underscores that creating a culture where process and customer value drive innovation is key to sustaining a dynamic and forward-thinking environment.

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Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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