Cider Chat

This panel discussion on Ancestral Method was moderate by Nicole Leibon of LeNosse Knows consultation. She was joined by Yann Gilles, a French cider consultant, Levi Danielson of Oregon's RAW cider and David Carr of California's Raging Cider. This feature was was recorded at CiderCon 2024, the annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association.

The discussion centers around various aspects of cider production, specifically highlighting traditional cider-making methods like the "ancestral method.

• Cider Making Methods and Personal Backgrounds of each speaker
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• Ancestral Method of Cider Production
  • This traditional method of cider making is particularly prominent in Normandy and Brittany, France.
  •  
  • It involves a two-step fermentation process:
    • the first step is in tanks and the second in bottles, intentionally leaving both fermentations incomplete to retain some natural sugars and create a sparkling cider.
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• Technical Details in Cider Fermentation
  • Discussions delve into the technical specifics such as controlling yeast population, managing nitrogen levels in the must, and how these factors affect the cider’s quality and character.
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• Influence of Environmental Factors
  • Various environmental factors like orchard age, apple variety, and climatic conditions impact the nitrogen content in apples, which in turn affects the cider's fermentation process
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• Cider Quality Control Techniques
  •    Techniques like racking, filtration, and the use of centrifuges are explored to manage fermentation and ensure quality.
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• Packaging and Bottling Considerations
  •    The choice of bottles, pressure management during second fermentation, and how these factors impact the safety and quality of the final cider product are discussed

• Cider Tasting and Consumer Preferences
  • The session included a cider tasting, emphasizing the importance of understanding consumer preferences and the impact of specific cider-making techniques on the flavor and appeal of the cider.
    • 2022 Cidre AOP Pays d'Auge Cuvée Réserve | Manoir de Grandouet (Normandy)
    •  
    • 2023 AW Cider Pet Nat | RAW Cider Company (Oregon)
    •  
    • 2020 Disco Nat, Metal House Cider (New York)
    •  
    • Jonathan & Liberty | Raging Cider & Mead Company (California)

Enjoy this detailed exploration highlights both the science and the art behind cider making, from orchard management to bottling and consumer satisfaction.

• Nicole LeGrand Liebon - @nicolegrandleibon - Vermont
•  
• Yann Giles - @yanngilles.cidre - France
•  
• Levi Danielson - RAW Cider - Oregon
•  
• David Carr - Raging Cider and Mead Company - Southern California

• PA Cider Fest - June 15, 2024
•  
• Who's been cross promoting cider #xpromotecider
  • Sidra Santiago artesanal sidreria - Craft cider. Heritage Chilean apples. In the heart of Santiago, Chile
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• French Cider Tour 2024 is Sold Out

Cider Bon Vivant Reporter Al Sax provide a cider dispatch report from Monterey Virginia. This area of Virginia is known as Highland County and it is here that Big Fish Cider is located. One of the cool extras (beside cider) when visiting this region, is that it is a Dark Sky area. This means good star grazing due to the lack of night lights drowning out the night sky.

Al interviews Big Fish Cider Maker and Owner Kirk Billingsley. Kirk was last on Cider Chat in Episode 124. That recording took place in 2018 at CiderCon the annual trade conference for the American Cider Association

• 400 apple trees planted
• Can order Big Fish online
• Tasting room open Friday -Sunday

• Website: https://www.bigfishcider.com/about-us/
• eMail: [email protected]
• Telephone: (540) 468-2322
• Address
  • 59 Spruce Street, Monterey, VA  24465

If you enjoy sharing your love of cider and also have a knack for conversation? Why not share some of your local cider hot spots and interview a favored maker.

Cider Chat is looking for 20-25 minute cider dispatches. No prior podcasting experience required. Check out the page “Work with Cider Chat“, fill out the form and get published on the world’s #1 cider podcast as a Cider Reporter @ Cider Chat!

• Hear from Cider Chat’s newest patron Josh from Australia
• Who’s been cross promoting cider #xpromotecider
  • Abaliget Garden Projects – Cider, Perry and Fruit wines
  • Megan Faschoway – Junction Orchard and Ciderhouse
  • Rakkerpak Cider – Denmark
  • Thy Cider – Denmark
  • Big Fish Cider posted the Cider Chat info flyer in their tasting room √
• Only one seat left on the French Cider Tour 2024
• Work with Cider Chat – Record audio snap shots from your special spot in Ciderville
• @joshcreates
• Tom Oliver of Oliver’s Cider and Perry Ltd audio clip!

This episode features two cider professionals and a cider industry consultant, which is exactly who you need a direct line to when your cider has problems. Hear from Megan Faschoway who at the time of this recording was Senior Cider Maker at Sea Cider, Kira Bassingthwaighte Head Cider Maker at Western Cider in Montana and Nick Gunn of BenchGraft a cider consultation service based in Salem Oregon.

This talk took place in Portland Oregon at CiderCon, the annual cider conference hosted by the American Cider Association. The title of the talk was “What to do when things go wrong”.

The focus was not on preventive measures, but as the title says – curative steps that one can take to try to mitigate a problem with a particular cider

• Dealing with rotten egg smell from your cider
  • Hydrogen sulfide (H2S) is a negative off-aroma compound that can occur in cider and has a rotten egg smell. It’s produced by the yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae during cider fermentation.
• Filtering cider
  • Using Reverse Osmosis (RO)
• Tasting Panels for feedback
  • Dealing with a saturated cider maker’s palate
• Saving samples from each batch to create a library for potential cider problems down the road

• Kira Bassingthwaighte, Western Cider Hear Kira on Episode 295

• Megan Faschoway

• Nick Gunn BenchGraft Hear Nick and Dave White of Whitewood Cider on Episode 004

• French Cider Tour September 2024
• Oliver’s Cider and Perry Company – UK Cider in Herefordshire, Tom Oliver audio clip
• The Whose Who of #xpromotecider in this episode? Join the fun and download the info flyer on Cider Chat offerings at the Support Page! Post, share and social media and tag Cider Chat! Cider’s XPromoters will be featured on an end of year episode!
  •  
  • De Gerdenner Cider, Netherland
  • Northwest Cider Association reposted Episode 410 with Olympic Bluffs Cider and Lavender Farm
  • Ross on Wye Cider and Perry Company posted last week’s Episode 410 Perry Panel
  • Dragon’ Head Cider
  • Camra Cider and Perry
  • American Cider Association – CiderCon

Enjoy this panel discussion “Pear Necessities: International Perry recorded at CiderCon 2024. The panel was moderated by drinks writer, Adam Wells of the UK. Sitting to his right was Tom Oliver of Olivers Cider and Perry Ltd (UK), Laura Cherry of Dragon’s Head Cider (Washington State), Albert Johnson of Ross and Wye Cider and Perry Company (UK) and cider critic and blogger Natalia Wszelaki (Germany).

• Introduction of Perry Panel Speakers
• Overview of Perry in both Europe, the UK and America
• Tasting profiles of 4 Perry’s
  • Oliver’s Cider and Perry Ltd. (UK)
    • SHHH
  • Ross on Wye Cider & Perry Company (UK)
    • Thorn 2019 S.V. Perry
  • Kertelreiter (Germany)
    • Heiden 2021
    • Single Tree Perry
  • Dragon’s Head Cider (Washington State, US)
    • Sparkling Perry
• Perry critique of servings via Natalia a.k.a Cider Explorer
  • Shared a bit of history of perry in Austria, Switzerland and Germany
• Pear Cider vs Perry – are they interchangeable

Perry: A Drinker’s Guide, author Adam Wells of Cider Review

• French Cider Tour September 2024
• Oliver’s Cider and Perry Company – UK Cider in Herefordshire, Tom Oliver audio clip
• The Whose Who of #xpromotecider in this episode? Join the fun and download the info flyer on Cider Chat offerings at the support page! Post, share and social media and tag Cider Chat! Cider’s XPromoters will be featured on an end of year episode!
  • Spacetime Mead & Cider Works, Dunmore, PA
  • The London Cider House
  • Rakkerpak Cider, Denmark
  • @snoopylovescider – referred to a Cider Chat episode with Stormalong Cider. There are currently two episodes with this Massachusetts based maker Episode 036 (Season 1) and 236 Scrub a Dub Valves and Vessels which is part of the Season 5 Cider Making series.
• American Cider Association – CiderCon

Olympic Bluffs Cidery & Lavender Farm is located on the northern coast of the Olympic Peninsula in Washington State. The farm is on a bluff that overlooks the Salish Sea, which spans the international waters between British Columbia and Washington State. The location is dreamy with views of Mount Baker, a 10,000+ foot mountain, to the east and Victoria Canada to the north.

Olympic Bluffs was founded by Ginger and Scott Wierzbanowski, who found farm land years early on a trip to Washington State. Both are Air Force Veterans with Ginger serving as an Intel Officer and Scott as an Air Force F 16 pilot.

The two met in Korea, married in Denmark, and lived in Europe where in France they discovered Calvados. Years later their love of cider helped frame Olympic Bluffs Cidery and Lavender Farm which has an onsite Lavender shop, a cider production area, a Bed and Breakfast next door, and a commercial location where a future tasting room will be situated in downtown Port Angeles.

• The Wierzbanowski’s backstory to cider.
• Why a cidery and lavender farm in Port Angeles?
• What does the location look like? When and how can people visit?
• Is there a best time?
• The orchards,
  • Size, terrain, soil type
  • Number of apple varieties and (pear?)
  • Orchard practices
• What products Olympic Bluffs currently sells
• Types of cider to expect?
  • What has informed your cider making styles?
• Future plans

• Website: https://www.olympicbluffscidery.com/
• Address: 1025 Finn Hall Rd, Port Angeles, WA 98362
• Telephone: +13606707206

• French Cider Tour September 2024
• Oliver’s Cider and Perry Company – UK Cider in Herefordshire, Tom Oliver audio clip
• The Whose Who of #xpromotecider in this episode? Join the fun and download the info flyer on Cider Chat offerings at the support page! Post, share and social media and tag Cider Chat! Cider’s XPromoters will be featured on an end of year episode!
  • Spacetime Mead & Cider Works, Dunmore, PA
  • Heartland Ciderworks, OR – watch the “Bottles On My Desk” review of Avalon
  • Rakkerpak Cider, Denmark
  • Know Your Roots, orchard consulting | NY

Mike Biltonen and his wife Debbie founded Know Your Roots in 2008 and began offering a wide array of service for backyard and commercial orchardists in 2014.

This conversation tool place at the Berkshire Roundtable that was founded my Micheal Phillips 34 years ago. This annual meet up of orchardist and cider makers takes place in Massachusetts each spring. It is an informal discussion amoungst peers all on growing apples and assorted pomme fruits. Micheal Phillips was a renown orchardist and author of many books like The Holistic Orchard. Find all his books at Cider Chat’s book page. Listen to episode 312 dedicated to Micheal.

• The backstory of Know Your Roots
• Services offered by Know Your Roots
• What to consider before planting an orchard
• Mike’s background in Biodynamic (BD) orcharding
• Defining Holistic Orcharding
• Making a BD preparation
• Climate change – dealing with late season frost
• The future at Know Your Roots and…cider?

• Website: https://knowyouroots.com/index.html

• Rudolf Steiner
• Josephine Porter Institute for Applied Biodynamics (JPI)
• #xpromotecider in this episode
  • Listen to Dan of Space Time Mead & Ciderworks
  • Bones and Bottles Review – on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/boneandbottlereviews/?hl=en
  • Listen to Episode 407 with Dan Gallagher of Frosty Twig Cider
• Follow Ben Kuenš on Chocalate Pears – listen to his episode #304 all on Sorbus Domestica

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Find a free downloadable Cider Log for your next ferment below! Dan Gallagher of Frosty Twig Cider, a new startup based in Canton New York, has created a form for your next batch of cider. Dan who began making cider in 2017 found online cider making forums and cider influencer tips both informative, but also conflicting. The Cider Log was created to track what actually does or doesn’t work when fermenting.

• Dan’s backstory
• The value of a Cider Log
• His goal for Frosty Twig Cider to begin commerical sales
• A step by step review of each stage of a cider ferment
  • From sourcing fruit to bottling
• Working with Canton Apples

Follow along as we review this filled in Cider Log below with Dan.

• Instagram @frostytwigcider

Download this Cider Log for your next ferment. By going to https://ciderchat.com/podcast/407-cider-log/

• French Cider Tour 2024
• A mentioned by Dan in this episode The Building a Cidery Series Part 1-7
  • 255: Trademark Law | Building a Cidery Part 1
  • 256 Securing a Trademark | Building a Cidery Part 2
  • 257: Courthouse Creek Garagistes | Building a Cidery Part 3
  • 258: Ragged Hill Design | Building a Cidery Part 4
  • 259: Artifact Cityscape | Building a Cidery Part 5
  • 260: Eris Brewery and Cider House | Building a Cidery Part 6
  • 261: Yonder & The Source | Building a Cidery Part 7
  • 262: Virtual Cidery | Building a Cidery Part 8
• #XPromoteCider – Cross Promote Cider and get mentioned on Cider Chat. Download the info flyer, post in your tasting room or favorite bulletin board and load up to Social Media. Make sure to tag Cider Chat (@ciderchat or @ciderchatciderville)

Lee Reeve of InCiderJapan kicks off this episode stating “Japan is Apple Country.” And he is right… because Lee has been on the podcast 3x’s and has taught listeners all about this apple country and the regions were orchards are abundant that the growing cider community.

He is the Publisher and Editor of inCiderJapan, the country’s first and only bilingual magazine dedicated to all things cider. He was first on the podcast in Episode 114 and again in Episode 173. Each time we were able to catch up on the happenings in Japan. By the way, there are two main apple growing regions: Aomori to Nagano.

• Cider in Japan post the pandemic and updates for Lee as his role evolves
• The state of cider today
• Japanese culture and cider education
• Rules around making cider in Japan
• The Japan Cider Cup
• OK Adam Cider a Japanese cider brand

• Website: https://www.inciderjapan.com/
• Japan Cider Cup – https://www.japancidercup.com/

• New York International Cider Competition 2024
• French Cider Tour 2024 – September 22th – 28th Paris, Normandy, Brittany
• Greenbank Cider, Washington State
• #xpromotecider – Share the Cider Chat Podcast Info Flyer and help your patrons and friends find over 400 episodes on makers, orchards and cider travel. This week’s mentions:
  • Follow our friend Marcel who is making cider in the Netherlands on Instragram @degerdenner
  • Wooden Gate Cider – Pilot Mound, Manitoba
  • Heartland Ciderworks Find these ciders on tap at La Familla Cider and definitely try the tacos at Azuls Taco House

Revel Cider was founded in 2014 and is located in Ontario a little over one hour west of Niagara Falls. Hear Tariq tell how he both got into fermentation, how Revel embraces foraging local resources for ferments, surviving the pandemic and how to get his cider!

• Visiting the newly opened Tasting Room
• Co-Ferments
• Native Yeasts
• Carbonic Maceration

• Website: https://revelcider.com/
• Address for Tasting Room: 62 Dawson Rd, Guelph, ON N1H 1A8, Canada

• New York International Cider Competition 2024
• French Cider Tour 2024 – September 22th – 28th Paris, Normandy, Brittany
• #xpromotecider – Share the Cider Chat Podcast Info Flyer and help your patrons and friends find over 400 episodes on makers, orchards and cider travel.
• Follow our friend Marcel who is making cider in the Netherlands on Instragram @degerdenner
• Episode 306 with Elegast Cider, Netherlands
• Episode 398 with GreenBench Mead and Cider | Saint Petersburg, Florida
• Episode 404 with Albert Johnson of Ross Cider and Perry Co. | UK

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

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• Twitter @ciderchat
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Ross Cider and Perry is a family owned business located in the West Country of the United Kingdom in the region of Heredfordshire. The Johnson family have been farming this land now with 45 acres of bush orchards and another 10 acres of standard trees and perry pears. The apple trees were planted between 1978 and 2001. And the Perry Pears about 35 years ago by Albert’s father Mike.

Pictured above: Cider Chat Host Ria, Mike and Albert Johnson - at Ross Cider Fest 2019

Today you can visit the newly remodeled Yew Tree Inn which is situated next to the orchards and all under the Ross Cider ownership. At the pub find 18 taps. They make a wide range of single varietal ciders (upwards to 90) and blends. One will always be guaranteed to be amazed by the offerings when visiting.

• Catching up since the first interview in 2019 with Mike and Albert – listen to Episode 194
• Cider Making Practices
• The orchards
• Events
  • Ciderganza A spring cider festival at The Yew Tree Inn
  • Blossom Walk A charity fundraising blossom walk around the Broome Farm orchards
  • Summertime Soirée A weekend drinks festival at The Yew Tree Inn
  • Cider Challenge A charity cider competition and festival at The Yew Tree Inn
  • Ross Cider Festival A summer cider festival at Broome Farm
  • Ross-tober-fest An Octoberfest event held at The Yew Tree Inn

• Website: https://rosscider.com/
• For general and cider enquiries: [email protected]
• For Yew Tree Inn related enquiries: [email protected]
• For Yew Tree adult only caravan & motorhome enquiries: [email protected]
• For Broome Farm family friendly & group camping enquiries:[email protected]
• Telephone: 01989 562 815
• Address: The Yew Tree Inn,
  • Peterstow, Ross-on-Wye, Herefordshire, HR9 6JZ

• Kordick Family Farm – Listen to Episode 369 featuring the Kordick Family
• New York International Cider Competition 2024
• French Cider Tour 2024

Botanist and Barrel is a family owned and operated cidery. Kether Smith and brother Lyndon and their respective spouses Derick McGuffey and Amie Fields make the magic happen at this eclectic cidery. They began selling cider commercially in 2017 and they all enjoy making cider.

There are two tasting rooms. Production happens at the Cedar Grove Location and in Asheville you can visit the Botanist and Barrel Tasting Room.

Lyndon and Amie were interviewed while attending CiderCon 2024 in Portland Oregon. They provide tips on how to approach their products when visiting the tasting room.

• Try a flight. There are four flight options.
  • Sour and Spice Flight
  • Barrel aged
  • Any thing goes
  • Hybrids and co-ferments
• The ciders and co-ferments of Botanist and Barrel
• Tips for working with family members
• Visiting the tasting rooms

• Ashville Tasting Room
  • Website: https://www.botanistandbarrelasheville.com/
  • Address: 32 Broadway Street, Ste 110, Ashville North Carolina
  • Telephone: (828) 338-9516
• Cedar Grove Tasting Room
  • Website: https://www.botanistandbarrelasheville.com/
  •  
  • Address: 105 Persimmon Hill Lane, Cedar Grove, NC 27231

• New York International Cider Competition 2024
• French Cider Tour 2024
• Episode 288 Space Time Mead and Cider Works | Pennsylvania 
• @degerdenner in the Netherlands
• Cider Summit

go to CiderChat.com to find over 400 episode with from makers around the world

Molly and Dion Stepanski are the founders of of PIF Cider with an inviting Tasting Room located in Alpena, Michigan. They met in New Orleans where Dion was working as a Jazz muscian and Molly in a store. In 2014 they move to farm vegetables at Dion’s family farm in Posen, MI. There they planted a one acre orchard which Dion describes as high density, but not trellised. They sources their apples from Michigan’s TraverseCity area which is to the west of Alpena.

From the outset they wanted to make English Style Ciders and by all accounts they are hitting this target straight out producing delectable ciders that please the palate and made this cider podcast host swoon with delight.

• The backstory of PIF and the Stepanski’s journey to cider
• Cider making techniques at PIF
  • Native yeas
  • Barrel program
  • Blends and Single varietal
• The cider fans of Presque Island and the surrounding area.
  • What can guests expect when visiting.
• How to get PIF products!

• 2022 Farmhouse 8.2%
  • Kingston Black
  • Bulmers Norman
  • Brown Snout
  • Northern Spy
  • Label by their son
• Kingston Black and Bulmers 50/50
  • Made in Stainless
• Single Varietal Spitzenberg 2021 12.5%
  • Aged for 2 years in Bourbon Barrel
• Clean Ciders meaning pitched yeast
  • Golden Russet, Harrison blend 9% semi dry
  • Bulmers Norman and Coxs Orange Pippin
  • Farmhouse back sweeten with French Bittersweet concentrate
    • This is in a can and is a slight variation from the 750 ml bottles

• Website: https://pifcider.com/
• PIF Tasting Room address:
  • 205 W. Chisholm St. Alpena, Michigan
• Taproom Telephone: tele: 01-989.340.0970
• Instagram: @pifcider

• New York International Cider Competition 2024
• French Cider Tour 2024
• Étienne Dupont – listen to Episode 337

Chef Brian Duffy is one of the culinary’s industry’s most dynamic and innovative personalities. 

With a career that spans decades, He has been captivating audiences with his infectious passion for food and his unique approach to the culinary arts. He is well known for his appearances on the tv and the series “Bar Rescue,” where Chef Duffy helped transform struggling bars, offering expert advice and renovations to revitalize their business and create successful, thriving establishments.

In this episode of Cider Chat we are tapping into Chef’s contemplative side and getting his thoughts on the both cooking with cider and pairing cider with food.

• Sweet
  • Coyote Verde 4.25% Back Sweetened Tart Granny Smith Apple
    • Producer Fishback Stephenson Cider House | Iowa
• Semi Dry
  • Grapes in a Suit Case
    • Producers Botanist and Barrel / North Carolina and Artifact Cider Project / Massachsetts
• Semi -Dry
  • Premium Hard Cider (6.9%) all native years, no sulfites, barrel aged
    • Producer: WildCraft Cider Works / Eugene Oregon
• Dry
  • Malus (7.5%) juice is from apples pressed in New York and shipped to Florida
    • Producer: Green Bench Brewery and Mead & Cider / Saint Petersburg Florida

•  What is Chef Brian Duffy up to.
• Cooking with cider
• Pairing cider with food 
• Let’s talk PH when pairing cider – Most bars serve high acid pub food/dishes with drinks. For those who want to balance acid and alkaline offerings, what are the options? Looking for pub/restaurant dishes that you would recommend.
• 3 tips for a success restaurant or cidery serving food
• Typical mistakes to avoid when serving food

• Website: ChefBrianDuffy.com
• Instagram: @chefbriduff
• Duffied Live podcast

• French Cider Tour September 24 – 28, 2024
• Bar & Restaurant Expo March 18th -20th, 2024 use code ChefDuffy50 for $50 off you pass
• Episode 035: Danielle von Scheiner | Big Apple Hard Cider, NYC

This episode is a special valentine to Ciderville with a little bit of help from the Talking Pommes and an eventful appearance by The Nose!

 We are in the Cider House reviewing the last year and have written a special card to everyone out there in your special spot in Ciderville.

In this episode we say good bye to Season 8 while reviewing the uniques of cider, what we all need to do to keep relationships in Ciderville healthy, and how to help keep cider going up a.k.a #ciderGoingUP.

• Find all past episode from Season 8 of Cider Chat
• @cidersoms - follow along on Instagram
• Work with Cider Chat
• French Cider Tour September 24 - 28, 2024
• Send Cider to Cider Chat
• Support Cider Chat
• Cider Chat Swag Store - get your cider t-shirt today!

In Strängnäs Sweden, circa 2017, Johan Sjöstedt, Oskar Palm, and Patrik Svensk began selling ciders commercially under their brand Pomologik. They didn’t set out to make low alcohol cider nor even non alcoholic cider when they started, but a lot can change in a few short years.

• John Sjöstedt’s journery to cider
• How a US cider bar encouraged Swedish cider makers
• How a cider purist can shift perspective
• Low alcohol by volume (ABV) ciders and Non Alcohol Ciders in Sweden
• Cider techniques
• Cider Styles
• Cider Fests in Sweden – Nordic Craft Cider Festival
• Who are Sweden’s cider fans
• Who can visit Pomologik…for now.

• Website: https://www.pomologik.se/

• New York International Cider Competition 2024
• 2024 French Cider Tour to Paris, Normandy and Brittany – Reservations are live now and there are only 4 spots left
• Amsterdam Cider Salon, Netherlands March 8, 2024 (7-10 pm)
• Non alcoholic cider in US – follow Jonathan Mark on instagram for more info

Green Bench can boast being a microbrewery, meadery, and cidery in a region where palm trees rule! Despite that small inconvenience of no apples trees to speak of growing in Florida, maker Brian Wing has been rolling out the cider barrels since 2015. Green Bench itself has been producing select beers beginning in 2013.

• Fermenting in Florida. Where is the production facility located. (Webb’s City Cellar?)
• How did this all come about? Brewing begins in 2013 then 6 yrs later (2019) cider & mead.
• Brian’s journey to cider
• What are the challenges of cider making in FL (resourcing from…NY…)
• Who are the cider fans in St. Peterburg and the surrounding area. Has this changed since you opened and if so, how.
• Training of staff to pour and discuss cider – loved how you were planning for this on the tour
• What can guest expect when visiting.
  • Is there a flagship cider that one should try first?
  • Malus is the Flagship cider – try this one first!
• Cider styles and techniques
  • Fermenting with fruits from Florida for co-ferments
  • Florida honey ferments
• Filtering using a centrifuge
• Barrel program

• Chaconne
  • A dry cider made by Green Bench Brewing Company. It’s made with Wickson Crab, Yates, and Harrison apples, and has an ABV of 6.4%

• Website
  • https://www.greenbenchbrewing.com/mead-cider

• French Cider Tour 2024 – September 22nd – 28th

Sean Kelly founded Wildcraft Cider Works in 2014. His journey to cider making began in 2008. It follows his botanicals passion, quest for tree resources & conservation, in concert with travels to Latin America where he learned how to ferment. He honors the preservation and the medicinal value of the plants and does a mighty fine job of capturing the essence of a wide variety of pomes, grapes and botanicals in the glass.

• Only Native Yeast
• No sulfites
• Co-ferment
  • botanical
  • grapes
  • pome fruits – pear, quince, medlars
• Barrel aging

• Pisgah Heriloom
• Restoration Perry – wild rootstock pears
• Medlar

• Ciders
• Perry
• Brandies – POM-MISTELLE – a set of 3 brandies, apple, quince and pear
• Fire Cider
• Hot Sauce – Peppers gleaned from Camas Swale Farms. Fermented and aged in house brandy barrels

• March 2nd Tap Takeover – an array of ferments on tap
• Fiddlehead Festival – Last weekend of April
• Harvest Party – fall

• Freeman Rowe
• French Cider Tour – September 22-28, 2024 Reservations are now open

This Cider Chat Live features clips from CiderCon 2024 which took place in Portland, Oregon. What was particularly unique about this year was the ice storm that took place.

Pictured below is a car driven from the border of Oregon and California to PDX. It is incased in ice and is a testament of just how ferocious the storm was. Despite the ice, the cider kept pouring.

Ander's car and its Ice Cap when he arrived at the main hotel

Oregon Cider Week and CiderCon 2024 are all converging in PDX and this episodes has all the tips you need arrive and hit the ground running. Portland resident Sean Connolly, who is also known as Cider Experience on Instragram and Facebook has delivered big time with tons of tips and insider knowlege to help everyone feel like a local.

• Temperature
  • Highs 47 degrees
  • 50/50 chance of rain or sunny
  • Bring layers

• What to wear
  • Jeans and plaids work
  • Casual dress code and functional

PDX Tips to look like a local: Loose the umbrella and let your hair get wet! When using an umbrella, it is obvious you are from out of town!

• Transportation
• Airport (PDX) to CiderCon – The Met Red line is not in service beginning January 14th. Service will be still provided via shuttle buses which will take a bit longer than the 30 minute ride. It is still a great deal at $2.80
  • go to Trimet.org for more info

• Driving: Download Car Parking App: Parking Kitty 

• Bicycles for Rent in PDX
  • Nike Launch a travel by bike – https://biketownpdx.com/
  • There are lots of bike lanes
  • Spring Water Corridor runs the length of the Willamette River approximately 7-8 miles

• Need Tech help or supplies?
  • The Lloyd Center is close by and in old town Portland there is a full service Apple Stor

PDX Tips for purchases: There is no Sales Taxes in Oregon

• Restaurants near CiderCon
  • Red Robin
  • Spanish Tapas
  • Noble Rot – beautiful views of the city
  • Big Pink – City Grill on 33rd floor with great views
  •  Sizzle Side Pizza
  • Spirit of 77 Seas recommends for good pub faire

• Grocery stores by Hyatt
  • Safeway approximately 3/4 mile
  • Trader Joes about 4 miles away in the Hollywood district

• Karaoke
  • Ambassador PDX Bar and Lounge 
  • Alibi PDX
  • The Baby Ketten Club

PDX Tips: The city is Food Trucks heaven – Look for “Food Cart Pods” via Travel Portland ‘s online food cart finder

Cider Locations closest to Hyatt and Oregon Convention Center

• Schilling Cider House – a wide range of taps approx 1 Mile from the Hyatt
• Spirit of 777 Tap take over
• Pizza Thief – the tap
• Lil Spirits – a block and half from Convention Center – tap takeovers – 437 NE Lloyd Blvd Portland, OR 97232
• The Place PDX – A cider bar will be hosting multiple cider events

In Pearl District on west side of river

• Cider Bite – splits taps between sweet and dry
• Portland Cider Company  – 35 taps 
  • Locations in Oregon City and Beavertown
•  Swift Cider is located in the north side of town

• Bring Cider or Beer Home
• The Place PDX – buy bottles to go
• John’s Marketplace big collection of both cider and beer – 3560 SE Powell Blvd -Portland, OR 
• McMenamins has a large selections
• New Seasons Market
• Pick up cider and beer at the Portland International Airport
  • Look for Made in Oregon Store in airport

• Walk by the River
• Forest Park: The largest urban park in the country
• Mount Tabor Park
• Hopscotch – light and music theme area, high sensory experience (take an hour to enjoy)
• Dance: McMenamims at Lola’s Room
• Relax and Soak at McMenamims Soaking Pool or Common Ground Wellness Center

PDX Tips for Cannabis: Oregon Legalized Cannabis in 2015. There are 5 dispensaries around the hotel conference center. Look up: WhatsLegalOregon.com

• CiderCon 2024 January 15-19th, 2024 Portland Oregon
• Artisans by Cider Summit| Portland, Oregon January 20, 2024
• Oregon Cider Week January 13-20th, 2024
• Totally Cider Tours – France – listen to past episodes and get on the wait list for the 2024 tour!

The list of cider notes can be quiet long, but in this episode we are going to make it doable and easy for you.

• The Talking Pommes encourage Ria to slow down
• Sign up for the last cider tour heading out at CiderCon 2024
• French Cider Tour reservations
• Wassails
  • January 5th at the Botanist and Barrel, Cedar Grove North Carolina
  • January 28th Berkshire Cider Project at the Tourist in North Adams Massachusetts
    • Learn about Wassailing in Episode 393

• 381 DIY Cider Making for Beginners
• 382 Beginner Tips for Squeaky Clean Cider Equipment
• 384 Beginner Cider Making Tips forPrimary Fermentation 
• 386:  Managing Cider’s Secondary Fermentation – DIY Tips

Find a complete list with links to purchase at the Cider Making Equipment page at ciderchat.com

• Extra Apple Juice to for topping off
• Secondary Fermenter – glass carboy of equal size
• Airlock and Bung
• Racking Cane or Auto-Siphon
• Sanitizer
• Hydrometer or Refractometer
• Tubing & a clothes pin ( a Ria tip to have on hand for clamping tubing as you go so it can be managed to insure that the tube doesn’t slip down into the lees and stir them up)
• Bottle Brush and Cleaning Equipment

• 363: Exploring Cider Using 33 Books Flavor Wheel
• Sean Connolly Cider Experience
• Subscribe to Cider Chat YouTube Channel

In this episode learn about meaning behind Wassail and Drink Hail from the Butler himself, Al Sax.

A Wassail is a celebration of the orchards, most typically apple orchards to honor the natural world and pay tribute with hopes of an abundant fruiting season moving forward.

A Wassail is also a cheer

• When you hear someone say “Wassail” it means -Be Healthy!
  • The reply is “Drink hail” –  To your health!

Historically a Wassail would be held on the 6th of January or what is known as the Twelfth Night.  Or on the 17th of January which is called “Old Twelvey”

In these modern times a Wassail can take place when it is most appropriate considering the weather and outside temperatures. There is no strict protocols, but rather traditions that when followed harken us all back to our ancestral roots and pagan ways.

In the orchard surrounding a large fire, a fire circle and in some places 12 small rings of fire for the 12 apostles or for the twelve signs of the Zodiac.

Indoor Wassails are also doable for those who can’t go outside during -6 degree temperatures. Thus, a Wassail can take place at a Senior Center or a Day Care with songs being sung around a plant or small tree.

The end goal is all the same, to sing to the orchard, the apple tree(s), to ward off the apple foes and to harken in better times ahead.

• Have a fire keeper who will make sure the wood is ready and lit to greet the parade of merry makers
• Set a meeting spot for everyone to gather and then walk to the oldest or largest apple tree. The fire is often very nearby.
• Have “Safe” Torches, flashlights to lead the crowd to the main fire
• Have some hot mulled cider, which is always good for a loud “Wassail and Drink Hail” reply
• Have a Master of the Ceremony or what is known as the “Butler”
• Select a King and Queen
• Have slices of Toasted bread
• Have Cider to drink and to pour a bit on the toast and onto the ground
• Hand out lyrics to the Wassail songs
• The King and Queen lead the group up to the Apple Tree
• Place the toast on the limbs
• Pour cider on the roots of the tree
• Make noise to ward off the evil spirts – this is your chance to call out “Wassail” and then reply “Drink Hail”!
• If Morris Dancers are available they would do a dance or two
• Have a taste of two of Wassail – pick an option that best suits your crowd. It can be a hot mulled cider, with or without spices or fortified with brandy, perhaps a wee bit of honey?

A two handled cup or goblet is the classic Wassail cup that would be passed round, but these days any fine drinking cup would do sans the passing around.

• Willie Smiths Cider in Tasmania hosts an annual “Mid Winter Festival” in July
• Campaign for the Revival Of Wassailing (CROW)
  • www.nationaltrust.org.uk/petworth-house-and-park/recipes/petworths-traditional-wassail

• 072: Lost Apple of the Quabbin |Massachusetts
• January 5, 2024 Wassail at Botanist and Barrel Cidery and Winery, 115 Persimmon Hill Ln, Cedar Grove, NC 27231-8807, United States
• Hear about the orchard samplers and cider made at Renaissance Orchards in Ferndale Washington in Episode 390

In the midst of a rich farming legacy emerged Bent Ladder Cider and Wine, based in Doylestown Ohio. Chris and younger brother Matt Vodraska are following in their father Dale’s footsteps. Chris is the orchardist and viticulturist and Matt is the cidermaker. The farm is the story.

Dating back to 1995 their father Dale was eyeing farmland that was by all accounts destine for development. In 2004, he “finally wore down the seller” as his sons put it and bought the 128 acre farm. Today there are 3-4 acres of vineyards and 30-40 acres of orchards. The site hosts both the Bent Ladder production area and stunning tasting room and Rittman Orchards & Farm Market.

• The Vodraska Family’s back story to present day
• The orchards,
  • Size, terrain, soil typeNumber of apple varieties
  • Orchard practices
• Kazakstan and Krygzstan scion wood graftings at Bent Ladder
  • Is this Malus Sieversii?
    • Up coming ciders with these apples
• Ciders at Bent Ladder
  • At the Tasting Room find draft, flights and glasses of select ciders
• Heritage Ciders in 750ml
  • Heriloom
  • Farmstead
  • Rose Gold – mostly Redfield in wine barrels
  • Black Gold a single varietal Gold Rush 
  • Russet
  • EverCrisp Cider 
• Cidermaking practices
• The tasting room

• Website: https://bentladder.com/
• Rittman Orchard & Farm Store: https://rittmanorchards.com/
  • Find the Apple Chart that Chris Vodraska has been compiling at this page: https://rittmanorchards.com/apple-chart/

• Dawes Arboretum
• Dr. Diane Miller
• CiderCon 2024 January 15-19th, 2024 Portland Oregon
• Artisans by Cider Summit| Portland, Oregon January 20, 2024
• Oregon Cider Week January 13-20th, 2024
• Totally Cider Tours – France – listen to past episodes and get on the wait list for the 2024 tour!

Saint Lawrence Nurseries is a specialized tree nursery in New York state, renowned for its expertise in cold-hardy fruit and nut trees with a committment to sustainable and organic practices. The nursery, which was originally founded in the 1920s by Fred L. Ashworth of Heuvelton, NY, was initially more of a hobby and experimental station for Ashworth. Bill MacKentley met Fred in 1971 and they developed a strong, almost familial relationship. After Fred’s death in 1977, Bill and his wife Diana purchased the land in Potsdam, NY, where Fred had done much of his grafting and breeding. In 1981, they produced the first official St. Lawrence Nurseries catalog.

For 34 years, the MacKentleys cultivated Saint Lawrence Nurseries into a unique and well-loved business, carrying on Fred Ashworth’s passion for growing and propagating fruits and nuts suitable for northern climates.

The MacKentley, were planning their retirement and phasing out their business around 2015. Connor Hardiman who began working at Saint Lawrence Nurseries years earlier stepped in to take over rather than allowing the nursery to close. He and his wife Alyssa are the new stewards of Saint Lawrence Nurseries and are helping to herald in a new era for the Nurseries.

Do note that many refer to Saint Lawrence Nurseries as SLN.

Citing from a Cornell University study for 1981, that stated the the the previous 40 years had been the best years of agriculture (good weather patterns) in the world. Of particular note is that moving forward from 81 onward, one can now expect that the climate was returning to normal. Note that this was serval years before climate change was being discussed to the degree that it is today.

Says Bill, “We have got to get our act together [in regards to climate change].

Born in 1898, Ashworth studied the trees that survived the 1938 kill off of apples and studied them very closely. He began the nursery in the 1920s. He also worked with nut trees, potatoes and inspired Bill’s career at Saint Lawrence Nurseries.

• Dr. Elaine Ingham – research on the soil and the food web – find out more at https://www.soilfoodweb.com/
• Paul Stamets – https://paulstamets.com/
• Dr. Christine Jones – soil ecologist https://soillearningcenter.com/expert/christine-jones/

Connor Hardiman is now the steward of the Nurseries. Find his contact below and reach out to Connor to contact Bill.

• Website: https://www.slngrow.com/
• Address: 325 Rt 345, Potsdam, NY 13676
• eMail: [email protected]

• CiderCon 2024 January 15-19th, 2024 Portland Oregon
• Artisans by Cider Summit| Portland, Oregon January 20, 2024
• Oregon Cider Week January 13-20th, 2024
• Totally Cider Tours – France – listen to past episodes and get on the wait list for the 2024 tour!

First there was Cider Supply and then Chris founded Renaissance Orchards with his wife Melinda. This move was a natural progression of a series of events that include resources needed for making a keeved cider and the thirst for a particular style of cider.

The orchards and the Rylands are based in Ferndale a town just south of the Canadian border in Washington state.

• What happened to Cider Supply?
• Why French style ciders?
• The orchards at Renaissance
  • number of apple varieties and pear 
• Products
  • cider
  • scion

Hear how Chris dug into 16 cider specific apples to understand the best blending practices for cidermaking. Each label shows:

• a picture of the specific apple
• charts that apple’s
  • tannin
  • aromatics
  • acidity
  • astringent
  • sweetness
  • phenolics
• The origin of the apple, including location
• How to use – best as a blender or as a single variety cider

• Website: https://renaissanceorchards.com/

• CiderCon 2024 January 15-19th, 2024 Portland Oregon
• Artisans by Cider Summit| Portland, Oregon January 20, 2024
• Oregon Cider Week January 13-20, 2024
• Totally Cider Tours – France – listen to past episodes and get on the wait list for the 2024 tour!

The Illustrated History of Apples in the United States and Canada is a seven-volume set of books that documents the history of apples in North America written by Daniel J. Bussey. The book was edited by Kent Whealy and published in 2016 by JAK KAW Press LLC. 

The set covers over 16,000 apple varieties, including nearly 10,000 synonyms and 1,400 watercolor paintings. Each volume is between 500 and 600 pages long and weighs 32 pounds (14.515 kg).

In 2018 this compendium received the Literary Award by the Council of Botanical and Horticultural libraries.

Dan was inspired by Fred Lape’s book Apples and Man. Another key literature source was John Ashton Warner’s American Pomology (1867). The bibliography with line drawings of apples resulted in developing links with a network of book dealers and a rather exhaustive delving into historic documents, that predated the internet, right across the USA in the archives of fruit and horticulture societies.

• Dan’s journey to apples
• What propelled Bussey to write this book?
•  How he gathered the info for researching this topic
•  What readers can expect to find in the book
•  How to use the book
  • Why the synonyms are important in this series.
• How many apples in the book – how many apples known today (worldwide)
•  Favorite stories from writing the book
• Favorite apples?

Contact Daniel J. Bussey

Go to the contact page for JAK KAW Press https://www.jakkawpress.com/order

• New England Botanical Orchard at Tower Hill – Massachusetts
• CiderCon 2024 January 15-19th, 2024 Portland Oregon
• Artisans by Cider Summit| Portland, Oregon January 20, 2024
• Oregon Cider Week January 13-20, 2024
• Totally Cider Tours – France – listen to past episodes and get on the wait list for the 2024 tour!
• https://ciderchat.com/podcast/338french1/
• https://ciderchat.com/podcast/339bustour2/

Todd Little-Siebold (Ph.D.) spoke at New York Apple Camp (2023) on a presentation titled the "Three Grandmothers" or Grand-mères in French. The sub title is "We have to reframe how we think about the origins of American Apple".

Todd is a professor of history and Latin American studies at the College of the Atlantic based in Bar Harbor Maine. As such this presentation is academic in nature and inspires both present day pomologist and apple fans of today and tomorrow to continue to trace the ancestral roots of the apple. Enjoy this exploration in to the continuing research behind the origins of apples.

• Le grand- mère: Rienette Franche (Grise or Grauwe)
• Unknown 13
• Reinette a longue (Queue or Reinette a la long Queue)
• Calville Rouge

This research requires looking at genetics and early settlement of French explores long before any English explorers showed up on North America.

Additional topics covered in this presentation:

• When and where, were the French (apple) ancestors brought to America?
• The early settlements on North America
• Bay of Funday the first orchard planted in 1604
• 4,000 French farmers in the Mississippi Valley in 1700s
• The Dutch impact of American apples
• What about the pilgrims? Didn’t they bring apples to America?
• Native American’s impact on apples in America
• Genetics provides some evidence, but still looking for missing links of why English apples aren’t showing up.

• eMail: mailto:[email protected]
• Website: https://www.coa.edu/live/profiles/1136-todd-little-siebold/templates/details/faculty.php

• CiderCon 2024 January 15-19th, 2024 Portland Oregon
• Portland, Oregon January 20, 2024 Artisan Cider Summit http://www.cidersummitnw.com/artisans

CiderCon 2024 takes place in Portland, Oregon, making it the perfect time to chat with the American Cider Association's CEO Michelle McGrath. The Northwest Cider Association is also involved helping with the cider tours on Monday and Tuesday and Oregon Cider Week!

• Who is Michelle McGrath? Why did your job title change from Ex Dir to CEO? The latter, is a typical of a for-profit organization title. Was this new title part of signifying a greater change for the ACA moving forward?
• What are the key services that the American Cider Association is providing to its membership?
• Who can join the American Cider Association?
• CEO Michelle’s must attend (do not miss) recommendation for CiderCon 2024

• What is CiderCon? How do the host cities get chosen?
• This year it returns to Portland Oregon, for the first time since 2016. What can attendees expect with this site (physical overview) what is different from the downtown location in 2016.
• Planning Tips for getting the most out of CiderCon (or why should a business send themselves or their staff).
• Pre conference cider tours: Why arrive early and sign up for a cider tour?
• First Timers, Networking & Traveling alone to CiderCon – “how to stay in the loop”

• Doing Business Better
• Making Amazing Cider
• Selling More Cider
• Growing bountiful Apples
• Exploring Cider’s Flavor & Terroir

• There are a number of speakers from Sweden and Norway attending CiderCon 2024. Is this in keeping with highlighting a specific country or region as in past? Will there be any specific tasting sessions from the Nordic countries?
• CiderCon has become the largest conference in the world for the cider industry and this year it appears to spotlight more international speakers than ever before, from both Scandinavia and the UK. How do you recommend members or attendees who are focused on their US market to interpret the state of cider in America, if the pool of speakers is dominated by international guests.
• Is there a final closing toast that attendees can participate in, the Friday before heading home?

• Website: https://ciderassociation.org/
• CiderCon 2024 January 16th-19th, 2024 in Portland, Oregon
• CiderCon 2024 cider tours! go to https://ciderassociation.org/cidercon2024/2024-tours/
• Oregon Cider Week January 13-21, 2024

Improve the overall quality and characteristics of the final product during secondary fermentation by;

• Clarification: During primary fermentation, yeast converts sugars into alcohol, creating a cloudy mixture with suspended yeast and particulate matter. Secondary fermentation allows these particles to settle over time, resulting in clearer cider.
• Stabilization: Secondary fermentation helps to stabilize the cider by allowing it to age in a less active state. This aging process can reduce the risk of off-flavors and other fermentation by-products that can negatively impact the cider.
• Reduction of Sediment in Bottles: By allowing most of the sediment to settle out in the fermentation vessel rather than in the final packaging, secondary fermentation ensures a cleaner, more professional-looking bottled cider.
• Risk Reduction: Transferring cider to a new vessel after primary fermentation reduces the risk of contamination from dead yeast cells that can autolyze (break down) and potentially create off-flavors.

Secondary fermentation is a crucial step for refining cider, enhancing its clarity, taste, and stability before it is consumed or sold.

• 381 DIY Cider Making for Beginners
• 382 Beginner Tips for Squeaky Clean Cider Equipment
• 384 Beginner Cider Making Tips forPrimary Fermentation 

Find a complete list with links to purchase at the Cider Making Equipment page at ciderchat.com

• Extra Apple Juice to for topping off
• Secondary Fermenter – glass carboy of equal size
• Airlock and Bung
• Racking Cane or Auto-Siphon
• Sanitizer
• Hydrometer or Refractometer
• Tubing & a clothes pin ( a Ria tip to have on hand for clamping tubing as you go so it can be managed to insure that the tube doesn’t slip down into the lees and stir them up)
• Bottle Brush and Cleaning Equipment

• Completion of Active Primary Fermentation: Watch and notice when the vigorous phase of primary fermentation is complete, which is typically indicated by a significant decrease in airlock activity or specific gravity readings that are close to the target final gravity.
• Gravity Readings: Use a hydrometer or refractometer to take consecutive gravity readings over a few days. When readings are consistent, it suggests that fermentation has slowed down enough for secondary transfer.
• Visual Clues: Look for a drop in the level of visible activity, such as the reduction of bubbles and the beginning of sediment formation at the bottom of the primary fermenter.
• Taste Test: Conduct a taste test for residual sweetness. If the cider is too sweet, it may need more time in primary fermentation unless the desired style of cider is sweet rather than dry.
• Timeframe Guidance: Generally, primary fermentation can take anywhere from a few days to two weeks, depending on factors like temperature, yeast strain, and original sugar content.
• Avoiding Off-Flavors: Transfer before the cider has sat too long on the lees at the bottom of the carboy to prevent off-flavors that can result from yeast autolysis.
• Specific Style Goals: Factor in the specific goals for the cider’s style, as some styles may benefit from a longer or shorter primary fermentation before secondary.
• Equipment Availability: Ensure that the secondary fermentation vessel is prepared and sanitized before deciding on the transfer to avoid any delays once the cider is ready.

• Stalled Fermentation – Adjust fermentation temperature to optimal range.
• Excessive Oxidation – Minimize headspace and avoid splashing when transferring.
• Contamination – Practice stringent sanitation and possibly discard contaminated batch.
• Sulfite Burn – Allow time for dissipation or use activated carbon treatment.
• Insufficient Carbonation – Verify yeast viability and sugar availability; maintain proper bottle conditioning temperature.
• Sediment in Bottles – Allow full clearing in secondary, use fining agents, and bottle carefully.
• Unexpected Flavor Changes – Allow time for maturation or blend with another batch.
• Pressure Build-up in Containers – Use an airlock or periodically vent the container.
• Cider Becomes Too Dry – Monitor gravity to stop fermentation at desired sweetness or back-sweeten with non-fermentable sweeteners.

• Past Cider Making Episodes:
• CiderCon 2024 January 16th-19th, 2024 Portland, Oregon
• Ross Cider and Perry Company
• ciderGoingUp Campaign page

Of course Cider has Ki , as it is related to the Japanese martial art Aikido. It all began when four words “Bravey, Wisdom, Love and Friendship” were spoken at New York Apple Camp in the summer of 2023. Apple Historian, author and well known apple detective John Bunker was the key note speaker at camp who also happened to be quoting from a book titled “The Art of Peace’.

The book was written by Morihei Ueshiba, the Founder of Aikido, and was translated into English by John Stevens who was a student of the Founder. And it was within that book that he found those four inspiring words “Bravey, Wisdom, Love and Friendship”.

The Founder , or Ōsensei as he was lovingly spoken often of Ki and its power. In short it is a universal life force that is present in all of us and all living things, including apple trees, orchards and cider. 

• We first hear John Bunker discussing how “Bravery Wisdom, Love and Friendship” can be relatable to apples and attending camp.
• Then an audio ad promotion for CiderCon 2024 being held in Portland, Oregon on January 16th – 19th, 2024.
• Ria’s trip to pick up fresh press apple juice at Lull Farm
• Brew Free or Die Home Brew Club

• American Homebrewers Association’s (AHA) has a worldwide database of over 2,200 AHA-registered homebrew clubs.- search for home brew and fermenter clubs in your area
• Cider’s Ki

The process where fresh pressed apple juice is transformed into a delightful alcoholic beverage (cider) happens during primary fermentation. Before we get into the steps here is a list of Equipment and Ingredients you will need for this stage of cidermaking.

• Fresh apple juice or cider (unpreserved)
• Yeast (wine or cider yeast recommended)
• Fermentation vessel (carboy or food-grade bucket)
• Airlock
• Sanitizer
• Racking cane or siphon
• Note book for writing down recipes and more
• Optional: metabisulfite (or campden tablets), pH test strips or pH meter, Yeast nutrient, pectic enzyme

Some of the links on this page are affiliate links. Support Cider Chat at no extra cost to you! Simply click on this link to make your Amazon purchase, and Cider Chat will receive a small commission. Thank you for your support!

1. Sanitization: Cleanliness is key! Ensure all your equipment is thoroughly sanitized to prevent any unwanted bacteria from spoiling your batch. Listen to Episode 382: Beginner Tips for Squeaky Clean Cider Equipment
2. Got Juice? You can press you own apples or buy juice from a cider mill. Either way the the apple varieties you choose will significantly impact your cider’s flavor. Listen to Episode 381: DIY Cider Making for Beginners

Step 1: Start taking notes on your apple blend, make of list of the varieties, and all the steps below.

Step 2: Testing and Adjusting: Measure the specific gravity of your juice using a hydrometer. This step is crucial as it allows you to calculate the potential alcohol content.

A standard, fresh apple juice blend, without any additional sugars, usually has a specific gravity in the range of 1.045 to 1.055. This range can vary based on the apple varieties and ripeness, but for our example today, let’s work with an Original Gravity (OG) of 1.050.

Calculating Potential Alcohol By Volume (ABV) Use this simple formula to estimate the potential ABV (Alcohol by Volume). The formula is:

Potential ABV=(OG−FG)×131.25

Where FG is the Final Gravity, which for a completely fermented cider, typically falls around 1.000 to 1.010. For our example, let’s assume that all the sugars are fermented, giving us a FG of 1.000.

Potential ABV=(1.050−1.000)×131.25 = 6.56%

With an original specific gravity of 1.050 and complete fermentation, you can expect your cider to have an alcohol content of around 6.5%.

Remember, these numbers are estimates, and the actual ABV can vary based on several factors including the specific yeast strain used, fermentation temperature, and the specific blend of apples. Always use a hydrometer to get the most accurate readings throughout your cider making process

Step 3: Check the ph of your apple blend

Step 4: Add metabisulfite if using a cultured yeast. (Skip this step if your are fermenting with a wild yeast.)

Wait 24 hours after adding metabisulfite before moving to Step 5

Step 5: (optional)

• Add Pectic Enzyme: This can help break down pectin in the juice, resulting in clearer cider.
• Add Yeast Nutrient: This provides additional nutrients to help the yeast thrive.

Step 6: Pitch the Yeast

Step 7: Airlock. Add water to airlock, put into bung hole and let primary fermentation begin!

When using a cultured yeast, the primary ferment begins within 24 hours and typically last 1-2 weeks.

When fermenting with wild yeast, the primary ferment may take longer and also last longer. The actual ferment may also appear less vigorous.

Mentions in this Chat

Mentions in this Chat

• Register now for CiderCon 2024 in Portland Oregon with pre-conference cider tours taking place on January 16, 2024. CiderCon kicks off officially on Wednesday January 17th. Tasting Seminars, Workshops and Keynote speakers for 3 straight days (January 17 -19, 2024)
• Follow Marcel at de Gerdeneer on Instagram @degerdeneer

Jane Steward, is the world’s premier Medlar Specialist. She is both a Grower and Producer of medlar preserves at Eastgate Larder, based in the UK, and the Author of the first ever book featuring Medlars called, “Medlars: Growing & Cooking

Jane Steward picking Medlars at Eastgate Larder

• What is a Medlar (pome, what do they look like) and why should we care about Medlars?
• What do they taste like?
• Where do Medlars grow and where did they come from?
•  Growing Medlars
• Medlar cultivars
• When to pick the fruit?
• A bit about how Jane came to be a “Medlar Specialist"

Cider Chat recommends supporting your local independent book stores. Jane's Medlar book is available on Amazon and by purchasing via this link Cider Chat does receive a kick back as an affiliate of Amazon at no further cost to you.

• Medlar Jelly
• Medlar Chutney
• Medlar Gin Liqueur

• Website: https://www.eastgatelarder.co.uk/

Mentions in this Chat

• Fermentis: SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider!
• Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map
  • Heritage Orchard Conference https://www.uidaho.edu/cals/sandpoint-organic-agriculture-center/conference

Dive into cider making essentials. Learn the importance of pristine equipment and elevate your cider's quality. Ideal for beginners starting their journey.

Sanitation is critical to cider making, because apple juice creates an environment where not just our chosen yeast can thrive, but also where harmful microbes can multiply. And these microbes? They can spoil your entire batch of cider.

"Spoiled" cider produces off-flavors when undesirable bacteria and wild yeast get a foothold. These undesirable flavors can range from a medicinal or band-aid taste, caused by phenolic compounds, to a buttery flavor from diacetyl, or even a vinegar-like sourness from acetobacter bacteria.

And it is not just about taste. Some strains of bacteria, like those producing mycotoxins, can potentially be harmful when consumed. While most off-flavors might just lead to a cider that's unpleasant to drink, certain microbial contaminants can lead to digestive issues or worse. That's why we can't stress enough: Sanitation isn't just for taste; it's for your health and safety too.

To keep those unwanted microbes at bay, you need to both clean and sanitize. And while they might sound similar, they serve distinct purposes. Cleaning removes visible dirt and residues, whereas sanitizing goes a step further, eliminating or reducing those unseen, harmful microbes that can jeopardize your cider.

As you venture into cider making, you'll hear about various sanitizers. Two of the most popular ones are Iodophor and Star San. Both are effective, but they cater to different preferences.

Personally, I lean towards Iodophor. It’s an iodine-based sanitizer, and when used at the correct concentrations, it doesn’t leave any taste or residue on your equipment. There are two big advantages especially for a beginner maker who is watching costs. Iodophor is less expensive than Star San. The amount need to clean a 5 gallon carboy is minimal, so a little bit goes a long way. However, be cautious about staining, as it can leave marks on plastics if left for too long.

Star San, on the other hand, is acid-based. It’s known for its foaming action, which can be useful as the foam can reach nooks and crannies you might miss otherwise. Some fermenters swear by the phrase "Don't fear the foam," because even if some foam is left behind, it won’t harm your brew.

Both Iodophor and Star San need to be diluted. With Iodophor, typically, a concentration of about 12.5 ppm, or roughly one teaspoon per 5 gallons of water, is recommended. It’s crucial to let your equipment sit in the solution for at least 2 minutes to effectively sanitize.

If you are a beginner make sure to listen to the tips on this episode to hear swish the sanitizer around in a large glass carboy (5-6 gallons) without compromising your back.

With Star San, the usual dilution is 1 ounce to 5 gallons of water. The contact time is also roughly 2 minutes. Always refer to the manufacturer's instructions to get the best results, as improper dilution can either render the solution ineffective or potentially harm your cider.

Clean as you go, might sound trivial, but it’s a game changer. Whether you’re transferring juice, checking specific gravity, or bottling your finished cider, always clean and sanitize the equipment immediately after use. This practice will not only make the cleanup process less daunting but also reduce the risk of contamination in your next brewing session

• • Solutions

• • Brush for bottle

• • Drying rack

Mentions in this Chat

• Fermentis: SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider!
• Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map
  • Heritage Orchard Conference https://www.uidaho.edu/cals/sandpoint-organic-agriculture-center/conference

Cider Making is fun! If you are a cider fan who would like to try to make cider at home without breaking the bank, this episode is the perfect DIY project to start your journey.

In this episode:

• Simple steps to DIY cider at home
• Basics of how fermentation works
• Where to get your juice and what kind of apple juice should you use?
• Equipment needed to make a gallon of cider
• The process for both a "controlled" ferment and a wild ferment.

By buying your equipment via the links provided, you provide a monetary kick back to Cider Chat at no extra cost to YOU. Win/Win 🍎

• Fresh pressed apple juice
  • Try to find a cider mill that has on hand fresh pressed juice! No cider mill close by? You can now buy apple juice via Amazon! This bottle below is 64 ounces so you will need 2 jugs  to make one gallon.

• A vessel for fermenting.
  • If you can buy a gallon of fresh pressed apple juice at the cider mill do so and use the jug that it can in to ferment.
    • You will still need a drilled stopper and airlock. These two links will provide options for different size jugs. drilled stopper and airlock.
  • If you buy apple juice at a grocery store or online and you have to buy a few to make one gallon, you will need a single 1-gallon jug.
    •   - Make sure to clean this jug before using. The final rinse should be hot, hot water. Leave enough room for the primary fermentation so that it doesn't bubble over. Always be careful with glass

The above jug is linked to Amazon and comes with all you need to start primary fermentation. It includes:

• Size #6.5 Drilled Stopper

• Airlock - The airlock helps release carbon dioxide (CO2) and keep out Oxygen!

The Big Book of Cidermaking

Listen to episode 231: The Big Book of Cidermaking, with the Shockeys

The New Cider Makers Handbook, Claude Jolicoeur

Mentions in this chat

• Fermentis: SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider!
• Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map
  • Heritage Orchard Conference https://www.uidaho.edu/cals/sandpoint-organic-agriculture-center/conference

In the realm of landscape design and horticulture, few names are as revered as those of Andrew Jackson Downing and his brother, Charles Downing. Through their combined efforts, they have left a lasting imprint on the field, shaping not only the aesthetics but also the principles that govern landscape design and horticulture.

Andrew Jackson Downing, born in 1815, was an iconic figure in 19th-century America, regarded as one of the founding fathers of landscape architecture. His visionary work combined aesthetics, functionality, and harmony with nature, aiming to create landscapes that were both beautiful and beneficial to the soul. He was an ardent advocate for the integration of parks and public green spaces in urban areas, emphasizing the profound impact such spaces could have on the well-being of the residents.

Downing’s contribution to landscape design and architecture is noteworthy. He was the author of seminal works like "A Treatise on the Theory and Practice of Landscape Gardening," which became a cornerstone for American landscape architecture. This book illustrated his innovative and holistic approach to design, which involved harmonizing architectural elements with the natural environment.

In this episode, audio snap shots from the Milton and Newburgh New York as part of the Downing tour, pre Apple Camp.

Tour Itinerary:

• Assemble at Milton Historical Train Station 41 Dock Rd., Milton, NY 12547
• Caravan to Crawford House
• Walk neighborhood and visit site of Andrew Jackson Downing former nursery

• Visit Downing Park Construction started in 1894 and the park was opened in 1897.
  • 181-141 Carpenter Ave, Newburgh, NY 12550
• Visit to  Cedar Hill Cemetery
  • 5468 Route 9W North, Newburgh NY 12550

Andrew J. Downing (left) and and Charles Downing gravesite tall headstone to right at Cedar Hill Cemetery, Newburgh New York

• Lunch 
• Visit Klyne Esopus Museum with historian Louis Tiemperio 764 Route 9W, Ulster Park, NY 12487

Charles Downing, the elder brother of Andrew, was an eminent pomologist, dedicating his life to the study of fruits, with a particular focus on apples. His extensive research and writings on pomology have contributed immensely to the understanding and classification of various fruit varieties, including a myriad of apple species. Charles worked meticulously to catalog different apple varieties, contributing significantly to the field’s growing body of knowledge.

Charles’ work in pomology complemented Andrew’s landscape designs, merging form with function, aesthetics with agriculture. The duo often collaborated, creating designs that were not only visually appealing but also agriculturally productive, embodying a holistic approach to landscape architecture.

Tragically, Andrew Jackson Downing’s life was cut short in 1852 when he died in a steamboat accident on the Hudson River. Despite his untimely death at the age of 36, his ideas continued to shape American landscape architecture, influencing the design of renowned public spaces, including New York's Central Park.

Charles Downing continued his work in pomology after his brother’s passing, solidifying his reputation as a leading authority on fruit and helping to propagate a diverse array of fruit varieties across America. The intertwining legacies of the Downing brothers live on, their principles echoing in the gardens, parks, and orchards of today.

Mentions in this chat

• Fermentis: SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider!
• Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map

Enjoy this special talk with a tasting of select co-ferments from New York Apple Camp 2023. Hear the discussion on techniques, flavors, and challenges. This talk was hosted by:

• Dan Pucci, author of "American Cider: A Modern Guide to a Historic Beverage" (2021)
• Matt Sanford, head cider and wine maker at Rose Hill Farm, New York

Matt Sanford and Dan Pucci

All co-ferments where made in New York.

• Blackduck Cidery Aronius: A unique co-ferment consisting of 92% apples and 8% Aronia berries, which lend a tannic profile to the glass.
• Rose Hill Cider Pomme Cerise 2020 & 2021 blend | 20% sweet and sour cherries and 80% apples, this blend showcases the layering of flavors over time. 

• Mentioned - Rose Hill Cider Pearly Dewdrops' traditional fermented drink made of plums. Cuvée with carbonically macerated Shiro, Early Golden, Oblinaya and Satsuma plums, cherries and nectarines that are blended with apple cider. Dark, resinous fruit flavor buoyed by an invigorating sparkle, this is the stonefruit equivalent to a dry, rustic Lambrusco. Wild years fermentation, no filtering or fining, finished in bottle without additives.
• Metalhouse Cider Tazza: A co-ferment of cabernet Franc skins that resembles wine in smell and taste but lacks the body of wine. It exudes a piquette-like vibe, combining Macoun and Macintosh apple juice with the robustness of Cab Franc.
• Rose Hill Cider Chiffonner 9% ABV: Comprising 25% Roxybury Russet, 25% Ashmead's Kernel, and 50% Riesling. This unique blend sits in stainless for six months and another year in neutral oak. If it's not solely made of apples, Rose Hill labels it as wine.

When should a ferment be labeled cider vs. wine? Matt Sanford shares Rose Hill's approach.

- The debate continues: Are co-ferments undermining cider?

- Ultimately, co-ferments could serve as a gateway to the world of cider for many and with Matt making and other makers show casing what can be done, the future is bright for this category.

For a comprehensive dive into co-ferments and to expand your cider palate, tune in to Cider Chat's Episode 379.

• Matt Sanford of Rose Hill Farm | New York
• Website: https://www.rosehillferments.com/
• Dan Pucci - Co-author of American Cider: A Modern Guide to a Historic Beverage (2021)

Mentions in this chat

• Fermentis: SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider!
• Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map

Eleanor Léger is affectionately dubbed the Ice Cider Queen by many followers, most notably this podcast. She founded Eden Specialty Cider in 2007, the year of the first harvest of apples for producing Ice Cider at Eden.

The act of freezing apple juice outdoors during the coldest days and nights of the winter to extract the water and then ferment the pure juice into what is known as Ice Cider is not new to Canadian makers just over the border from Eden's Newport Vermont headquarters. What is unique however is how Eden marketed and refined the technique to showcase to this delectable aperitif/digestif to a wider audience.

Eleanor Léger

Many awards later, a White House serving, and a reputation for some of the best Ice Cider in the world is now par for the course for the Queen and her growing realm.  In 2023 Eden is celebrating its fifteenth anniversary and has broadening the business, based in the northeast kingdom of Vermont, to include to two additional brands, Shelburne Vineyard and Iapetus (a natural wine brand).

In addition to her role as President and CEO of Eden Specialty Ciders, Eleanor is the Board President for the American Cider Association (ACA). This will be her last year in this role, when a new President is elected in 2024. In total she will have served 3 years in this position and discusses her goal during that time of making the Association accessible to makers who produce less than 25,000 gallons per year .

• Focusing on Ice Cider as a niche within the niche of cider making
• From farmhouse to tasting room - the early days of Eden Specialty Ciders
• A perfect fit of cider, wine and brand expansion
• Educating people about dry cider
• Secret confessions from the Queen
• Work life balance

• Website: https://www.edenciders.com/

Mentions in this Chat

• Fermentis: SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider!
• Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map

In this episode hear how brother's Jon and Christopher Piana found their way to Fable Farm and how you can get there and enjoy the bounty too!

Jon and Chris Piana

Hear about:

• Jon and Christopher's back stories
• Fable Farm's Feast and Field Event
  • Every Thursday during the summer months, enjoy out door music, food, cider, and more libations
• The Tasting Room
• The Cave - underneath the huge barn at Fable Farm
• The Quarterly Wine Club
• Foraging Apples
• Native yeasts, apples and grapes
• Co-ferments

Jon opening bottle in Cider Cave

•  Ciders
  • Walden (7.0%)
    • A small amount of the 2020 pet nat, Emanation, was barreled down to age an additional two years.
  • Emanation (6.0%)
    • 1-2 years in the bottle, this cider has been rolling out since 2015
    • Apples from Walden Heights Nursery and Orchard
    •  
  • Fluxion (6.9%)
    • made with a blend multiple vintages, which is a technique called Solera
    • a spritz of maple syrup is added for the secondary fermentation. At this point the yeast remaining in the bottle get reinvigorated and create bubbles. (this is the short story of what is called traditional method)

Farm Fermentory Barn sand Feast & Field event set up

• Website: https://fablefarmfermentory.com/
• Shop: https://fablefarmfermentory.com/shop/

This 22 acre farm with 8 acres of orchards on a hillside outside of Hardwick, Vermont in the town of Walden was founded by Todd Parlo and Lori Augustyniak. It is a sustainably managed and certified organic fruit orchard and nursery. In this chat, we speak with both founders as they share the history and current educational offerings at WHNO.

Todd Parlo and Lori Augustyniak (w/ frozen jug of apple juice) at WHNO

We also discuss how WHNO was awarded a SARE (Sustainable Agricultural Research and Educational Project) grant to study: The evaluations of apple cultivars for hard cider production in the Northeast. The goal of the project as Todd Parlo states it, is “To increase the pool of possibilities for a cider maker. And to get numbers on the constituents of juices of a variety of apple cultivars."

• 313 apple varieties from WHNO were tested during this project.

Todd in the Walden orchard

The study was completed and as of 2023 the results of the study can be reviewed via this link online.

Walk about the orchard with both Todd and Lori at WHNO and hear about just a few of the 600 apples varieties grown here.

• Website: https://waldenheightsnursery.com/about/

Mentions in this Chat

• Vermont flooding help - Go Fund Me for Henry's Hardware & Den in Cabot
• Fermentis: AC-4. SafCider™ AC-4 stands for Apple Crisp and is one of 3 SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider!
• Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map
  • Athol Orchards visit this orchard in the Panhandle of Idaho

He both forages apples and has a small orchard planted that he planted four years ago on his farm based in Craftsbury, Vermont. The ciders are both wild ferments and occasionally have cultured yeasts too.

He sells locally at Vermont farmers markets and doesn’t have any immediate plans to increase his production which is currently at 900 gallons per year.

Cedar Hannan

Cedar was originally looking at brewing as a retirement goal, but (as he notes in this episode) there are already a fantastic number of breweries in the surrounding area. In addition, the carbon footprint of beer is a bit larger than that of making cider at a local scale. Thankfully for us all, Cedar went with his hunch and is making Wildbranch Cider his full time gig, having quit his IT job.

Each of the following is what Cedar looks for when foraging apples or pears for Wildbranch.

• Flavor  - aroma
• Tannin
• Acidity
• Sugar content

• The Spiney - Flagship cider 6.8%
  • Try with cheddar cheese and grilled pork chop
• Golden Russet 8.3%
  • Intense fruitiness, Little bit of cooked apple
• Perry
  • Made with culinary pears - Barlett’s and Big Earl (a local variety)

Perry

Contact for Wildbranch Cider

• Website: https://www.wildbranchcider.com/

Mentions in this Chat

• Fermentis: AC-4. SafCider™ AC-4 stands for Apple Crisp and is one of 3 SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider!
• Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map
  • The Idaho University Extension Program - has a Fermentation Club - Find out about the July 29, 2023 Fermentation class

July 28th - 30th at the Ashokan Center in the Hudson River Valley (on the west side of river) is the first ever NY Apple Camp!

Elizabeth Ryan of Stone Ridge Orchard who is producing this event catches us up on the scheduled events and talks. 

The weekend begins with an optional tour on Friday focusing on the life of Andrew Jackson Downing. The tour goes to the original site of the Downing Nursery and Downing Park. Then a 2 hour lunch with cider  and off to Esopus  - where the Esopus Spitzenberg originated from.

• Find the Schedule of events and presentations at  https://www.hvcenterforfoodartsandag.org/apple-camp-schedule.html#/
• Tickets at: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/ny-apple-camp-2023-tickets-657779936497

The Friday tour is optional and there is a request for donations of $30.

• Fermentis: AB-1 (Apple Balance) yeast is one of 3 SafCider Yeasts for your cider!
• Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map

Ben is the Orchard Manager at Eden Specialty Cider based in northern Vermont and shares his insight on cold climate apple varieties and orchard tips. This chat took place at Eden's orchards based in what is known as the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont in the town of West Charleston. 

Ben Applegate

There are 50 Apple varieties at the Eden orchard. Here is a list of just some of the apples discussed in this episode: 

• Newton Pippin
• Liberty
• Stembridge Cluster
• Rubinette
• Northern Spy
• Trembletts Bitter

Ben discusses which varieties work well in a cold climate, while recommending that as the temperatures continue to rise both in Vermont and globally, he advises to plant trial apples for the changes ahead.

• Why you should do a Soil test before planting and what to do with that knowledge
• Why pruning too early can offset young trees
• Which apple tree damaging insects to worry about

• We learn about the challenges faced by the young apple trees, such as sun scald and fluctuating temperatures
• Scythe and Biological Mowing
• How climate change is affecting traditional production of Ice Cider, which is made by freezing apple juice on the coldest days of the year to freeze the water and then ferment the pure apple juice into what is known as Ice Cider.
• How acidity of the soil directly affects the acidity of the apples
• Selection of apple varieties and rootstock is crucial
• Dwarf tree management
• Incorporating composted teas for apple trees 
• The impact of author Micheal Phillips' work

Contact for Ben Applegate

Website: http://edenciders.com

email: mailto:[email protected]

Mentions in this Chat

• New York Apple Camp July 28th-30th, 2023 Registration is open!

The wild "ambient" yeast found on apples, in the air, on cider presses can all contribute to a spontaneous fermentation within the cider must, which is the juice that has been freshly pressed from a fruit such as apples or grapes and is fermenting. In this episode we hear from Hugues Guichard, who works at the Institut Français des Productions Cidricoles a research institute focusing on cider based in Normandy, France.

Hugues presented this lecture at CiderCon 2023, which is hosted by the American Cider Association.

Hugues Guichard at CiderCon 2023

Allowing a cider to go through a full spontaneous fermentation successfully is a growing trend within the industry as consumer continue to seek "natural" ciders. Hugues provides a complete overview of the French cider industry and the science behind spontaneous ferments.

• Subscribe to the Cider Chat YouTube Channel to be notified when the  audio of this lecture synced with the power point slide show goes live to the public.
• Become a Patreon and view video now

• Part I: French Cider Industry and IFPC
• Part II: French Cider ProcessingCider Apples and Harvest

  • Possible contamination by spoiling microorganisms

• Clarification 
• Fermentation 
• Maturation
• Bottling
• Conclusion

• Hanseniaspora is a genus of yeasts, when there is no sulphites in the must

• Mechnikowia pulcherrima (Mp)

  • On apple and in must (often high population)

  • no development in anaerobioses

• Hanseniaspora valbyensys (Hv) - apiculate yeast

  • On apple and in must, growth in must

  • 1 to 2 weeks then decreases

  • Sensibility to SO2

• Saccharomyces uvarum (Su): fermentative yeast

Bacterias and yeasts in ciders that can create off flavors

• Acetic acid bacteria (Acetobacter). Often described at Volatile Acidity (VA) which lends a vinegary taste to the cider

• Zymomonas mobilis (bacteria). off flavors  such as rotten banana, vegetal aromas. There may be a haze formation, high pressure in bottles, and excessive foaming

• Secundilactobacillus collinoïdes - lactic acid spoilage

• Brettanomyces anomala - Volatile phenol

Begin with cidermaking best practices  

As expected best practices for all fermentation including a spontaneous fermentation require

• Clean Fruit
• Hygiene in the cidery
• Temperature control

Contact for Hugues Guichard

• email: mailto:[email protected]

Mentions in this Chat

• New York Apple Camp July 28th-30th, 2023
• Nordic International Cider Competition - Deadline for sending entries August 7th,
  • The NICA competition takes place on September 6-9, in Riga, Latvia

Cornell University Associate Professor of Horticulture Gregory Peck Ph.D and Angry Orchard Head Cidermaker Joe Gaynor provide an in depth study of mechanical tools for orchards of all sizes.

The presentation took place at CiderCon2023.

No need to be an orchardist to enjoy this topic on mechanical harvesting of apples. Some of these same tools presented are also used in vineyards for harvesting grapes. Particularly interesting for cider fans and makers alike, is the debunking the myth that apples that fall on the ground can't be used to make cider. Dr Peck provides a great overview on this topic.

• Comparison of Cider Economies of New York, US and UK
• Bush Cider Orchards - wide row spacing for mechanical harvesting
• Cumulative Net Present Value (NPV) using Outsourced Machine Harvesting (~$300/acre)
• Is it Profitable to Grow Cider Apples in NY?
• The cost of hand picking - Labor in America
• Cumulative NPV at Various Returns using Hand or Machine Harvesting
• Tree-row sweeping and picking up
• Harvesting off the ground
• How mechanical harvesting impacts the fruit
• Options for Small, Medium and Large scale operations
• Conclusions of this study

Contact info for Gregory Peck

• eMail: [email protected]
• Listen to an early Episode 198: Becoming a Pommologist with Dr. Peck

Mentions in this Chat

• Scott Farm Go Fund Me for apple lost due to 2023 Frost
• New York Apple Camp July 28th-30th, 2023

On a sloping hill on the east side of the picturesque village of Cambremer sits Domaine Marois. The lead up to the home is formidable with a long drive that leads to the barrel room and production facility for the Domaine. Behind the home is a majestic oak tree said to be over 300 years old.

Antoine Marois in the barrel room at the Domaine

It is here that Antoine and wife Marie Marois reside. Marie is a cider maker in her own right having taken the head cider maker position at Domaine Dupont.

The grand house at Domaine Marois

• Where is Domaine Marois located – here we talk about the area.
  • – what to expect when visiting
• Antoine journey to become a cidermaker after working first with wine.
  • • What Antoine bring to cider that he learned from wine.
• Why haute tige (standard size) trees are important.
• How an orchard benefits from cows in the orchard
• Types of Cider Styles at Domaine Marois.
  • Co-ferments
  • Barrels toasted with apple juice
  • wild yeast and cultured yeaast
    • What to expect in the glass
• Visiting Domaine Marois
• Future plans for Domaine Marois

300+ year old oak tree at Domaine Marois

• Website: https://www.domaine-am.com/
• Visit this Domaine Marois by appointment only

The moped in the barrel room at Domaine Marois

Mentions in this Chat

• International Cider and Perry Competition - Cider Museum | Herefordshire - see the list of winners here
• Recent episodes with UK cider maker Tom Oliver
  • Ep 361 Is SO2 Necessary for Cider Making? 
  • Ep 366 Acclaimed Cider with Minimal Intervention | Tom Oliver 
• Got a Question about yeast and cidermaking? Send in your questions to [email protected] for the upcoming episode with Fermentis

Hear from Dorsey and daughter Brittany, the mother and daughter team at Korkdick Family Farm with Baba Yaga as their guide. Dorsey is a long time apple fan and even attended Peter Mitchell's cidermaking courses in the UK early on making her one of the first American's to take the UK course. Brittany studied agriculture and the two together make a dynamic team. Their main crop is apples and they apply holistic orchard practices.

Illustration for story of Kordick Family Farm called; Baba Yaga's Apples of Eternal Youth

• The story behind Kordick Farm
  • Baba Yaga inspiration
• How it works for a mother and daughter team – do you have help?
• The orchard,
  • number of apple varieties and pear (southern apple varieties?)

Garlic growing between Apple Trees on top of the hay mulch

• • root stock that works.
  • orchard practices
    • What do you no longer do and what is working (why) in our warming climate
    • Root stock used for that climate

The Kordicks practice intercropping between apple trees

• • Who is your market
  • What you sell
  • Kordicks Esty story
• Advice for new orchardist and women in particular who are interested in following a similar path.

Baba Yaga Renditions designed by Brittany Kordick

Contact info for the Kordick Family Farm

Website: https://www.kordickfamilyfarm.com/

Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/KordickFamilyFarm?ref=shop_sugg

Mentioned in this Chat

• 312: Some Angels are Dressed Like Bears | Michael Phillips 1957-2022

The Northern Spy is a delightful apple used both for baking and cidermaking! At one time it was a major export commodity due to its lack of bruising when packed in barrels. As far as apples go it is a winner for so many reasons, yet no one knows why it is named Northern Spy. there are certainly many hyposthesis on the subject. In episode 226: Northern Spy and the Underground Railroad Ryan Monkman of Fieldbird Cider reads a fictional essay on the topic (do listen as it is grand).

Kerry Anne Wilkins

In this episode we hear from Apple Sleuth or self proclaimed "Malus Absurdum" Kerry Anne Wilkins who is on the trail of the Northern Spy. Professionally Kerry works as a hospice nurse, but her love of apples and set her on a journey to find the story behind the naming of the Northern Spy.

Herman Chapin is responsible for propagating the Northern Spy

• Meeting the John Bunkers, a premier Apple Detective
• What we know so far about the Northern Spy's history
• Apple Sleuthing tips
  • Libraries
  • Oral History
  • Newspaper
  • Cemeteries
  • Land maps
• Tracking the Northern Spy to East Bloomfield, New York
• A Martha Steward faux pas that needed to be corrected
• The Northern Spy marker in East Bloomfield
• Herman Chapin and the Chapin family connection to the Northern Spy

] East Bloomfield road marker reads:

The original Northern Spy Apple Tree Stood about 14 Rods south of this spot in a seedling orchard. Planted by Herman Chapin about 1800 The Early Joe and Melon Apple also originated in this orchard.

Kerry is still on the quest to discover the history of the Northern Spy and hopefully the reason why this apple was named as such. If you have info please send it along her way. Recipes, book mentions, oral tales are all welcomed.

Contact info for Kerry Anne Wilkins

email: [email protected]

Want Kerry's postal address to send a letter? Contact [email protected]

Mentions in this Chat

• Listen to episode 290 with Tattiebolge CiderWorks Acme, Pennsylvania - as mentioned in this episode it is building out!
• Canuck Cider Cup winners for 2023
• Who is John Bunker America's Apple Detective? There are many episodes with John feature. Begin with this one  https://ciderchat.com/028-john-bunker-apple-identification/ and then google Cider Chat John Bunker for more from this American treasure of a man!
• Bottles on My Desk - Listen to the latest episode at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel via playlist "bottles on my desk"

There are so many title options for this episode, that all center around time spent in jail for one burgeoning cidermaker. "Busted Weed Grower Saved by Cider", was one that almost made the cut.  But this podcaster wanted to find something uplifting for Sean McFarland who was a cannabis grower ,who did get busted and was from all accounts able to survive prison life due to support from his family and a new found passion for all things cider. This tale has all the predicable twists and turns one would expect when a big weed grower ends up in jail, but what makes this story completely unique is Sean himself.

As Sean sees it, if you are satisfied with your life as it is now why regret what got you there. His optimism plays a lead role in his narrative and that alone is worth a listen.

  Sean and his then future wife who rekindled a childhood friendship while he was in jail

• Sean's journery from army brat to horticulture studies, squash growing and then cannabis
• Behind the scene of a mega pot bust
• Federal laws and Jail terms for cannabis growers
• Preparing for prison life
• Family matters
• Finding love while in prison
• Finding cider
• No regrets
• Minnesota law for felons who want to start a cidery

Sean and family in legally grown hemp[/caption]

Contact for Blackshire Farm Cider

Website: https://www.blackshirefarms.com/

] Sean working old family cider mill that has been rigged with salvaged parts

Mentions in this chat

• Send your questions to [email protected] about fermentation and yeast for an upcoming Q&A with Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Tom Oliver is just as acclaimed as his cider which makes Oliver's Cider and Perry Co. a global hit on two fronts. He is affable, engaging and knows his way around social media likely due to his work with the Scottish Rock Rock Band, The Proclaimers. Cidermakers are not well known for reposting news stories about themselves and their product, but Tom is a master of this one simple act that keeps Oliver's in the news and endears him to media. That singular step alone is just one of many giveaways that Tom provides to the slow moving cider industry.

This topic is key for makers looking to up level their online presence, but it was not the topic of conversation in this episode. Instead Ria and Tom caught up after the world shut down for the past 2 plus years at CiderCon 2023 held in Chicago.

• How minimal intervention is key for Oliver's Cider and Perry
• What is Farmhouse cider
  • Spontaneously fermented - wild yeast
  • Tannic cider and Perry Pears

At Oliver's there is no measuring of sugar or fiddling with the cider. In fact, Tom can be heard in most interviews saying "Don't fiddle with cider."

• More c0-ferments and collaborations!
• Bâtonnage
  • This is a technique used by winemakers, where the lees (yeast cells) are stirred into solution.
  • • Nano proteins are the biggest benefit of Bâtonnage
      • They release into the cider providing a perception of sweetness and body with out the sugar
    • Need at least 9 months to a year to get the nano proteins

    There are short term benefits.

    1. Yeast produces less carbon dioxide and bubbles.
       • They slow down after the first primary ferment.
       • Fermentation may have stopped but there is still sugar left.
    2. Lees absorb off aromas, except for H2S rotting egg smell.
    3. Bâtonnage helps to maintain a reductive state.
       • Full reduction - rotting smell is a type of reduction. Which helps protect the cider from oxidization and protect the flavor components.

Find out more about Bâtonnage by going to Episode 233: Ask Ryan Quarantine Quad Series where Ryan Monkman of Fieldbird Cider in Prince Edward County Canada provides an in depth overview of Bâtonnage and Maderisation (where the barrels are cooked).

Contact info for Oliver's Cider and Perry Company

• Website: https://www.oliversciderandperry.co.uk/

Mentions in this chat

• Send your questions to [email protected] about fermentation and yeast for an upcoming Q&A with Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

There isn't one definitive language or lexicon for cider, which adds to its indescribable mystique. The ongoing debate around what cider is or isn't or should be doesn't help. It certainly feels like a present day problem defining cider, but is it? Or has this debate been going on for years?

To help us get to the root of this indescribable dilemma, we are featuring "A Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider" as presented by Richie Brady at CiderCon 2023, an annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association. This is Richie's second appearance on Cider Chat. We first heard about his research on the lexicon of cider in Episode 286: A Living Language of Cider.

Richie provides a road map, complete with historical references and present day trends that helps us sort through this indescribable mess!

Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 2023

• Richie Brady's background
• Difficulties in describing taste: Language
• Proposed Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider
• Considering Cider's Lexicon

• @Sabatinis_Bottleshop - has a tasting room and served Domain Dupont Pommeau
• April 28th Kickoff Party - EsoTerra Ciderworks
• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Haven't downloaded this episode yet? Here it is again for your listening pleasure.

Colin Scott has spent his life in orchards, learning how to tended them with his parents, Edward and Janice as role models.  This episode is a testament of what it looks like to embody a craft as part of your way of life. Colin like many orchardist may not be a Mandalorian, a character from Star Wars who is now featured in a stand alone tv series depicting a a clan-based culture composed of members from multiple species and bound by a common creed, language and code, but he like many orchardist who grew up tending trees from an early age see orchard care as A Way of Life.

This episode first released in Season 2 of Cider Chat on episode 093 and was re-produced for Season 8. The info is evergreen and timely for those of us who love orchards and want to broaden our own knowledge base.

E.J. Scott Orchard was purchased in 1954. (Note that the first initial of Colin's parents in the business name) Today Colin is running the orchard and the apple storage facility site which is discussed at the beginning of this episode. E & J Scott Orchard also has apricots, blackberries, blueberries, cherries, grapes, nectarines, peaches, pears, plums, quince, raspberries, & strawberries. Their main store is in Ashfield, MA and is open Sat & Sun 10-6 July through May. Organic duck eggs from their heritage breed Ancona ducks are also available upon request.

Colin using his dad's grafting tool

We begin this chat with Colin inside one of the Apple storage rooms.

• temperature
• ethylene gas - apples off gas
• Apples are placed in a CA room (Controlled Atmosphere) where both temperature, oxygen and the off gases are controlled.

If apples don't have oxygen they don't ripen. Colin and I discuss the "delicate" process of storing apples or what he called "putting them to sleep".

Apple storage tip: Take your apples out of the refrigerator every once in a while and let them off gas. That will help them last a bit longer.

New and old grafting tools

• the beginnings of the orchard and what they grew and where they are going with the growing cider market
• Root Stock for grafting a tree - dwarf or standard
• Shifting his market to cider apples
• What do you look for in a root stock

"The idea behind grafting is to take the variety that you want and put it on the root stock you want. The vigor of the variety contributes to the size of the tree."

The numbering system of the root stock defines the size of the tree or a percentage of the size of the tree

• M rootstock 9, 11, 18, 26 what does that stand for? If you put a Macintosh on standard tree rootstock and a Macintosh on a 26, you would get 30 -40-% of the standard one. A M118 or M111 are going to be 6--70% the size, which means they will be almost as big as a standard tree.

Today Colin is using Geneva root stock, because he is finding it resistant to Fire Blight. A nasty disease that can kill the tree.

Geneva root stock numbering system is random too. Colin is using Geneva 41 & 935. They will be 30-40% of the standard tree. He uses a bench graft on his root stock.

• Lining up the cambium layers
• Getting it airtight

We also chat pruning an apple tree, especially a tree that you are attempting to revive after years of neglect.

Contact E & J Scott Orchard

• email: mailto:[email protected]
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/E-J-Scott-Orchards-2017815285121065/

Mentions in this chat

• Oesco, Inc - professional grade supplies for orchards and cidermakers.

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

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Dave Selden created 33 Books to help all of us track our favorite and not so favorite beverages! He is a graphic designer by trade, but soon found himself making tasting note books as a hobby which soon became a full time print business. The design of the note book for Cider called 33 Mugs of Cider provides an easy to follow script that one can refer back to again and again.

Dave and Cider Chat MC Ria Windcaller taste and make notes on a cider and perry from the Pacific Northwest maker Alma Cider. In this podcast episode, the conversation focuses in on the cider and how to use the tasting notebook - 33 Mugs of Cider. There is an additional option where you can watch and listen to the full conversation which was videoed at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel. In the video, Dave and Ria also go taste an Alma Perry, made with perry pears.

• Learn how to use a flavor wheel
• Learn the 3 key components to decipher in any cider
  • Acid
  • Tannin
  • Sweetness
• How to describe body
• Get pro-tips on tasting cider, i.e., at what temperature is best?

Contact info for 33 Books Co.

• Website: https://www.33books.com/

Mentions in this Chat

• Hardball Cider Start Engine Campaign 
• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
• Press Then Press - online cider retail store where you can purchase Alma Ciders!
• Alma Cider - Listen to a chat with Dave Klawer of Alma Cider on Episode 325
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
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[ Tristan Wright on the French Cider Tour

Tristan and Katie Wright are the owners of Lost Boy Cider, and now also the Lost Girl Wine brand, based in Alexandria, Virginia.  Discover the journey of Tristan, a reluctant banker that developed a gluten intolerance and then found his place in cider.

Katie Wright making Lost Girl Wine

• Urban cidery
• Tasting Room next to production facility
• Judgement Free - Inclusive Zone
• 20 Ciders on Tap
• Sugar free, unpasteurized un filtered cider
• Apples from Glaize family in Virginia

Contact info for Lost Boy Cider

• Website: https://www.lostboycider.com/

Mentions in this Chat

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers. 
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
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In this episode pre-recorded at CiderCon 2023, you'll get to hear from cider makers who will share their knowledge and expertise on the topic of sulfur dioxide cider.  Plus, you'll learn about the safety and health implications of adding SO2, as well as the legal limits for different markets.

1. What are the potential benefits and drawbacks of using sulfur dioxide (SO2) in the cidermaking both in the US and the UK.

2. How has the ban of BPA in California impacted the cider industry and what have can manufacturers done to adjust?

3. What strategies can winemakers and cider makers use to ensure their products are properly protected against oxidation and microbial spoilage?

4. Makers conclusion on whether SO2 is necessary for making cider.

(l to r) Tim Godfrey, Dave Takush, Teagan Bium, Tom Oliver

• Moderator Tim Godfrey is the head of Godfrey Beverage Solutions
• Dave Takish is the head cider maker and co-owner of Oregon's 2 Towns Cider House
• Tegan Bium is the cider maker at Virginia's Lost Boy Cider
• Tom Oliver owner and cider maker at Oliver's Cider and Perry Company | Herefordshire, England's

Mentions in this Chat

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers. 
• Carbonic Maceration for making cider - Revel Cider - Canada
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
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This Taproom Tips workshop was presented at CiderCon 2023 by Katie Black and Megan MacLean and it is packed with info!

In this episode

• A four prong approach to brand identity
• How to respond to taproom reviews
• 3 key factors when building culture for a taproom
• Hiring tips and training tips
• The timeline of a tasting room
• Recruiting systems and training
• Interview tips from Meghan
• Integrating future growth in your design
• Draft systems
• The "secret" dishwasher
• Polishing your glassware - do you have space?
• Cider cocktails set up
• The flow behind the bar design
• Bathrooms design
• In house residencies - food trucks vendors
• Bar Bible and what it should have

Katie entered the CiderCon® world in 2021 as of the first Kulture scholarship recipients. Her endless love for fermentation & product development peaked her curiosity on fruited ferments.

She calls the beautiful Blue Ridge Mountain town of Asheville, North Carolina home. Here, she also graduated from the Craft Beverage Institute of the Southeast with a Brewing, Distillation, & Fermentation degree.

Consulting has been part of the last 6 years for Katie in various realms of business, with a primary focus in the food & beverage world. The majority of her experience started within the brewing industry; from business openings, management, & even working her way into the cellar. This landed her with reopening & rebranding the original taproom at Artifact Cider Project. Before that, you could find her working for DSSOLVR brewing and spending sunrises harvesting in the mountains. She currently is working as an assistant distiller at the notable amaro distillery, Eda Rhyne.

Contact for Katie Black

• [email protected]
• Instagram @bevswithkb

Megan MacLean is a hospitality operations consultant with 14 years of experience in restaurants and taprooms. She specializes in private events, recruiting, training programs, people management, and operational system design. Most recently, Megan served as the hospitality director for Artifact Cider Project. She has since launched a solo consulting business, aimed at improving the industry she has come to know and love. Megan lives in Boston and travels extensively, working with clients all over the country. 

Contact for Megan MacLean

• [email protected]
• @m_f_mac on Instagram

Mentions in this Chat

• Grafting Workshop at Brook Farm Orchard, Ashfield Massachusetts April 15, 2023 1-3 pm
  • contact Alan Suprenant [email protected]
• Canuck Cider Cup - entries in by April 21, 2023
• Revolution will not be Pasteurized - Ross on Wye Cider and Perry Co. 2023 keg tour
  • Follow Ross Cider on Facebook
  • @rosscider on Instagram

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers. 

• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

Tim Vala had a vision over 39 years ago to build a destination for family fun. It started with a Upick strawberry patch that grew into a pumpking patch, orchard. It then evolved into kid friendly rides and food stands. Vala's Pumpking Patch and Orchard is located to the southwest of Omaha and draws over 300,000 visitor per year during the months of September and October. The rest of the season it is closed so that workers can take care of the property, orchards, pumpkin patches and rides...and of course get ready for the next season's opening day.

During the height of the season 1000 seasonal workers are hired. During the off season 30+ employees staffed to maintain the grounds and prepare for the next season.

Meet Kelsey and David Donovan. Kelsey is one Tim and Jan Vala's three daughters. She is a co-owner and works at the COO and David is the head cidermaker.

Hear about:

• The history behind Vala's
• Vala's cider
• The future for this enterprising family

Website: https://www.valaspumpkinpatch.com/

Mentions in this Chat

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers. 

• Bottles on My Desk - a live Stream with Cider Chat Producer and Emcee Ria Windcaller. Subscribe to be notified when the next "Bottles on My Desk" goes live at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

A pre-recorded seminar from CiderCon 2023 with 3 influential panelist based in New York.

[caption id="attachment_8097" align="aligncenter" width="200"] (l to r) Greg, Elizabeth, Ian, Ria[/caption]

Hear from:

• Elizabeth Ryan a Hudson Valley resident and owner of six historic farms, three of which are orchards.
• Gregory Peck PhD is a renowned pomologist and professor at Cornell University.
• Ian Merwin PhD is a lifetime farmer and cider maker who has been growing apples and making cider since 1985.

1. The historic proliferation of apple varieties in North America and the influence of indigenous communities on the Hudson Valley's apple industry.

2. The remarkable trade of Newtown Pippins from the Hudson Valley in the 18th and 19th centuries, and the wealth it brought to the region.

3. The revival of historic apple varieties in the Hudson Valley, such as Esopus Spitzenburg, Jonathan, and Northern Spy, and the unique characteristics of each.

[00:11:59]

Feature presentation on The History, Pomage and Terroir of New York's Ciders featuring 3 premier apples:

• Newtown Pippin
• Northern Spy
• Esopus Spitzenberg

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers. 

• Bottles on My Desk - a live Stream with Cider Chat Producer and Emcee Ria Windcaller. Subscribe to be notified when the next "Bottles on My Desk" goes live at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
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Storie Madrid first connected with Ria at Cider Chat via Twitter. In this niche market it is easy to get close to people of similar interests and passions. Storie has recently found out that she was gluten intolerant and was jumping down into the cider rabbit hole! Husband Erik was a craft beer fan who didn't need much convincing to get on the cider bus and join the fun. In 2018 Storie accompanied Ria on the first ever Totally Cider Tour to Normandy, France. In 2019, she and Erik went on the Monterey Cider Tour in California. They were on a mission to open a brick and mortar cider shop in Seattle. And now they are the proud owners of the online Cider Retail Store: Press Then Press!

At the CiderCon 2023, they were recognized by the American Cider Association as Cider Retailer of the Year!

Chris who founded the company a few years back approached the Madrids and struck a deal. The enterprising couple along with Storie's sister Ashley (who is a chef by trade) were able to hit the ground running and work through the pandemic offering select cider options.

Press Then Press offers ciders from the Pacific Northwest, which includes British Columbia (Canada) - the rest of the US and abroad. There is a wide assortment of offerings and as such they are able to take online purchases of ciders one step further.

Want to do a tasting from a wide range of makers - The Madrids and Sister Ashley can set you up with a mix box, or a vertical tasting of one particular style. Their aim is to please your palate, so don't be shy about asking for a certain mix up of ciders. They can deliver your request with a smile!

Erik is on the Board of Directors of  City Fruit a non profit that helps manage urban orchard in public parks and private homeowners. They collect upwards to 50,000 pounds of fresh fruit from the region. A % of Press Then Press's proceeds go to City Fruit.

Via the non profit, no fruit is wasted, especially apples and pears that are too bitter to be eaten. Those select pomes get sold to local makers to ferment making it a win/win for all. There is even an annual party and the two business share warehouse space making Press Then Press smell like a full on cider house in the fall.

Contact for Press Then Press

• Website: https://www.pressthenpress.com/

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers. 

• Bottles on My Desk - a live Stream with Cider Chat Producer and Emcee Ria Windcaller. Subscribe to be notified when the next "Bottles on My Desk" goes live at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
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Enjoy this roundtable discussion moderated by Glen Koehler with 4 holistic practitioners. This roundtable was recorded at Maine Apple Camp 2022.

• Eric Shatt - Redbyrd Cider Biodynamic Orchard in New York
• Kevin Clark - Rose Hill Farm, New York
• Jason Maanka - Know your Roots, New York
• Laura Seiger - Maine Heritage Orchard

(l to R) Glen, Jason, Eric, Laura, Kevin

• Maine Apple Camp is held biannually. The next camp will take place in 2024.
• It is hosted by the Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association.
• Go to MOFGA.org and join today!

• 202: Walkabout at Redbyrd Orchard | FLX
• Chicago Cider Summit February 4, 2023 - Live Streamed at Cider Chat YouTube Channel 1-2, 5:30-6:30.

• Bottles on My Desk - a live Stream with Cider Chat Producer and Emcee Ria Windcaller. Subscribe to be notified when the next "Bottles on My Desk" goes live at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

The week of January 30th - February 4th was packed with cider related events all based in Chicago. CiderCon, the annual conference hosted by the American Cider Association kicked off on Tuesday the 31st with Cider Tours. In this chat Ria took two tours: the Bronzeville Tour in the morning and the Historic Tavern Tour in the afternoon.

On Wednesday the 1st of February workshops began and Ria interviewed upcoming guests on Cider Chat!

Later that same day the Cider Share is held, which is a time for commercial makers to taste a bevy of ciders from fellow makers.

Ria is the Producer and Host of Cider Chat

Mentions in this Chat

• Contact for Liz Garibray - Bespoke Experiences 

• Press then Press - an online retailer specializing in cider
• New York International Cider Competition February 19, 2023- use promo code: Chat23 for $10 off your entry submission.

• Bottles on My Desk - a live Stream with Cider Chat Producer and Emcee Ria Windcaller. Subscribe to be notified when the next "Bottles on My Desk" goes live at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

It appears it is not a question of if, when historical varieties are no longer with us as climate change and other mitigation factors such as land development and disease threaten prize pomes! This topic is discussed in this episode by a panel of well versed pome fans.

• Matt Kaminsky who is also known as Gnarly Pippins is the moderator.
  • Contact for Matt Kaminsky
    • Website: https://gnarlypippins.com/
    • Listen to Matt on episode 346 on Why Pomological Exhibitions Matter

• Dan Newman hails from Palermo, Maine and has a keen interest in Pears from Maine. He is active in historical research that looks at records from county fairs. Each fair has the year and apple prized, and thus Dan can track what was grown where and when and by whom.
  • Contact for Dan Newman - write to mailto:[email protected]

• Dan Bussey has been growing heirloom apples for 42 years since 1980. He is the author of "The Illustrated History of Apples in the United States and Canada" It is a 7 volume encyclopedia on apples. The book is now on sale for $150 for the set. When released in 2016 it was $320.
  • Contact for Dan Bussey
    • Website: https://www.silverwoodpark.org/project/heirloom-apple-orchard/

• John Bunker was last on Cider Chat in episode 352 & 353. He is the Founder of the Maine Heritage Orchard & FEDCO Trees, Author of numerous books on Apples and is a well known Apple Detective.
  • Contact for John Bunker
    • Website: Out on the Limb Apples
    • Listen to John on episode 352: Apples in Gravel | Maine Heritage Orchard and episode 353 Apple Historian John Bunker Q&A | Maine Apple Camp

• Eliza Greenman is a fruit explorer and horticultural historian.
  • Contact for Eliza Greenman
    • Website: https://elizapples.com/
    • Listen to Eliza on episode 349: The Super Powers of Bradford Pears

• Lydia Pendergast - works with the Apple Team at the College of the Atlantic and interns with the Maine Heritage Orchard
  • Contact for Lydia Pendergast - write to mailto:[email protected]
  •  

• Maine Apple Camp is held biannually. The next camp will take place in 2024.
• It is hosted by the Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association.
• Go to MOFGA.org and join today!

Mentions in this Chat

• Press then Press - an online retailer specializing in cider
• New York International Cider Competition February 19, 2023- use promo code: Chat23 for $10 off your entry submission.

• CiderCon 2023 - February 1-3, 2023
• Chicago Cider Summit February 4, 2023 - Live Stream at Cider Chat YouTube Channel 1-2pm , 5:30-6:30pm CST.
• Bottles on My Desk - a live Stream with Cider Chat Producer and Emcee Ria Windcaller. Subscribe to be notified when the next "Bottles on My Desk" goes live at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

John Bunker is a self identified Apple Historian and an Apple Detective, Author of numerous books on the topic of Apples and Founder of FEDCO Trees. In the previous podcast episode #352 John delivers an overview on the Successes and Challenges of the Maine Heritage Orchard over the past 10 years. This episode 353 is the Q&A that followed that address. Typically, it would be recommend that you listen to episode 352 before delving into the Q&A, but even out of sequence one will find John's witty and insightful comments on a range of apple topics worth a listen.

John Bunker

• Time line of planning and planting Trees
  • What John recommends doing differently
• Found stories of people and migration patterns about the collection
• Questioned if John knew of dump sites that are being used in this type of format
• John helps to define Heirloom/Heritage Apples
• Genetics of Apples and seeds
• Climate change and the future of preserving rare vareities
• Legacy in relationship to the work of apple today for tomorrow.

• Maine Apple Camp is held biannually. The next camp will take place in 2024.
• It is hosted by the Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association.
• Go to MOFGA.org and join today!

Contact info for John Bunker

• Website: Super Chilly Farm
• eMail: [email protected]

Episode 352 is Part 1 to this Q&A with John Bunker on the Maine Heritage Orchard.

• Follow/Subscribe Cider Chat on  ApplePodcasts, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.

Mentions in this Chat

• New York International Cider Competition February 19, 2023- use promo code: Chat23 for $10 off your entry submission.

• CiderCon 2023 - February 1-3, 2023
• Chicago Cider Summit February 4, 2023 - Live Stream at Cider Chat YouTube Channel 1-2, 5:30-6:30.
• Bottles on My Desk - a live Stream with Cider Chat Producer and Emcee Ria Windcaller. Subscribe to be notified when the next "Bottles on My Desk" goes live at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

This is Part 1 with John Bunker, who is both an author, Founder of FEDCO Trees, an Apple Historian and a key person behind the Maine Heritage Orchard. In this recording her the full presentation from John as recorded at Maine Apple Camp in August of 2022.

John Bunker speaking at Maine Apple Camp

John Bunker moved to Maine when he was 21 years old and immediately fell for the state and collecting apples.

In the late 70s - early 80s  he began to learned about Maine’s historic apple varieties. Seeking out apples requires a bit of stealth and an out going personality

1. Seek out mentors

2. Do cold calls - when seeing apples along the road

3. Introduced myself as "Hi I am John Bunker. You won’t believe this but I am an apple historian.”

4. Give talks at Garden Society and such and charge nothing. John bunker has a sliding scale from 1 mil to zero dollars for his talks.

5. Pass out Wanted Posters

6. Fairs and Events: Do a display of apples - it becomes a magnet for people to see.

7. Apple Identification for no charge and also payment

] John Bunker

• The history of the Maine Organic Farmers and Gardners Association (MOFGA).
• The orchards at the Common Ground Fair
• Reclaiming land such as gravel pits
• The History of the Maine Heritage Orchard
• What is needed to sustain the Maine Heritage Orchard

• Apple Camp is held biannually. The next camp will take place in 2024.
• It is hosted by the Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association.
• Go to MOFGA.org and join today!

Contact info for John Bunker

• Website: Super Chilly Farm
• eMail: [email protected]

Episode 353 will feature Part 2 with John Bunker on the Maine Heritage Orchard.

• This episode will go live on January 25, 2023
• Follow/Subscribe Cider Chat on  ApplePodcasts, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.

Mentions in this Chat

• New York International Cider Competition February 19, 2023- use promo code: Chat23 for $10 off your entry submission.

• CiderCon 2023 - February 1-3, 2023
  • sign up now for the January 31th Chicago Cider Tours
• Chicago Cider Summit February 4, 2023 - Live Stream at Cider Chat YouTube Channel 1-2, 5:30-6:30.
• Bottles on My Desk - a live Stream with Cider Chat Producer and Emcee Ria Windcaller. Subscribe to be notified when the next "Bottles on My Desk" goes live at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

Kris Hogg formally of Perennial Cider Bar in Maine moderates this panel discussion that was held at the Maine Apple Camp in August of 2022. The topics are wide ranging:

• cultivars/apples that you really like

• anything that you haven’t tried yet that you would like to experiment with?

• life work balance from making to orchard care

• yeast only using wild or also culture yeast in ciders?

• cider as art vs science

• Is there a Maine Cider Style?

• David Buchann | Portersfield Cider
  • Website: https://www.portersfieldcider.com/
  • Address: 255 Elmwood Road Pownal, ME, 04069

David Buchann | Portersfield Cider

• Jared Carr | Cornish Cider Company
  • Website: https://cornishcidercompany.com/
  • Address: 135 High Road Cornish, Maine 04020 USA

Jared Carr | Cornish Cider Company

• Zak Kaiser | Absolem Cider Company
  • Website: https://www.absolemcider.com/
  • Address: 799 Winthrop Center Road Winthrop, Maine 04364

Zak Kaiser | Absolem Cider

• Jon Stein | Fogtown Brewing Company
  • Website: https://www.fogtownbrewing.com/
  • Address: Two locations: Ellsworth and Bar Harbor Maine!

Jon Stein | Fogtown Brewing Co.

• Apple Camp is held biannually. The next camp will take place in 2024.
• It is hosted by the Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association.
• Go to MOFGA.org and join today!

Bonus audio - 30 minute Q&A from this roundtable at the Cider Chat Patreon page. Join today and help keep #ciderGoingUP

Mentions in this Chat

• New York International Cider Competition February 19, 2023- use promo code: Chat23 for $10 off your entry submission.

• CiderCon 2023 - February 1-3, 2023
  • sign up now for the January 31th Chicago Cider Tours
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

This episode marks the 350th episode of this weekly podcast and the end of Season 7. The Nose and Ria sat down for a dinner chat and looked over the past season. The dinner was designed to be paired with a cider called Heirloom for an Austin cidery called Texas Keeper. In true Cider Chat style this delicious cider was one of many.

• Hierloom, Texas Keeper Cider |Texas
• Pommeau du Normandie from Domaine du Manoir de Montreuil |France
• Maple Sugar Liqueour from Flag Hill Distillery and Winery |New Hampshire
• Gigglejuice from Duckchicken Cider | London

• Download and listen to all past episodes mentions in this chat by going to the Cider Chat podcast page.
• This epsiodes ends Season 7 of Cider Chat. Find all the Season's at the podcast page. There you will find also the show notes for each episode, links to the makers and featured guests and mentions made in each chat.

Mentions in this Chat

• New York International Cider Competition February 19, 2023- use promo code: Chat23 for $10 off your entry submission.

• CiderCon 2023 - February 1-3, 2023
  • sign up now for the January 30th Chicago Cider Tours
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter@ciderchat
• Instagram:@ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

When fruit explorer and horticultural historian Eliza Greenman received a call from owners of an overgrown orchard asking if she was related to the Greenman's who planted said orchard, it took her as she says, "down the rabbit hole".  Greenman found that she was indeed distantly related to the orchard planters and took the job offer to restore the orchard. But that was only the beginning of the story that is still in process.

In this episode you will hear the Eliza Greenman's keynote address from the Maine Apple Camp which took place in August of 2022 which was titled Orchard Restoration and Pear Breeding.

Eliza Greenman's Keynote at Maine Apple Camp 2022

Pyrus calleryana, a.k.a. Bradford Pear or Callery Pears, is a type of ornamental pear tree that are commonly found in the United States. While they are often praised for their attractive white flowers and glossy green leaves, they have also gained a reputation as an invasive species.

Despite this negative reputation, Bradford Pears can actually be beneficial for cidermakers. Greenman explains that Bradford Pears make excellent root stock for top working pear varieties. Their hardy root systems can help to improve the overall health and vigor of the pear trees, which can be especially useful for cidermakers who rely on a consistent and high-quality harvest. In other words, while Bradford Pears may not be ideal for natural environments, they can be a valuable asset for those looking to cultivate pear trees for cider production.

• Dispelling the myth about "Pears for Heirs"
• The benefits of Bradford Pear

"Bradford or Callery Pear is great for root stock. Don’t cut it all the way down."

~Eliza Greenman

Contact for Eliza Greenman

• Website: https://elizapples.com/

Mentions in this Chat

• Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association - Mofga.org
• CiderCon 2023 - February 1-3, 2023
  • sign up now for the January 30th Chicago Cider Tours
• New York International Cider Competition February 19, 2023- use promo code: Chat23 for $10 off your entry submission.

• CiderCon 2023 - February 1-3, 2023
  • sign up now for the January 30th Chicago Cider Tours
• New York International Cider Competition February 19, 2023- use promo code: Chat23 for $10 off your entry submission.

•  
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

Pauline and Bill Storum settled in Julian California after Pauline retired from the US Navy in 2013. Planting an orchard and vineyard on the outskirts of this apple town was rooted in their desire to get their son Kyle, who is autistic,  and has a love of round objects engaged. Plus, Bill has wonderful memories of learning about orchard care when he was in high school. Kyle may prefer to stay indoors, but Bill is loving what he call his babies - the apple trees in the orchard.

In 2019, the county finally approved their plans and construction on their 81' x 36" steel building began that is both their production area and Tasting Room.  Just as they were getting ready to open their tasting room in 2021, the Covid-19 pandemic hit, allowing them to focus on perfecting their business and building.

Today you can visit the Tasting Room which is air conditioned ( a nice treat when the high desert heat kicks in) or step outside on the patio and enjoy a glass.

All ciders are fermented to dry and are made primarily with the wild ambient yeast at the cidery.

They have both single varietal ciders and blends like Harrison and Campfield. The have set up tastings so that customers can compare the same blends from previous years and educate their palates.

• Wines
• Basalmic vinegar
• Olive oil
• Try a delicious non-alcoholic with the shrubs they make at the cidery drink.
• Cider Swag - hats and t-shirts

Grab a sandwich and snacks in Julian to bring out for a day hike after visiting the cidery.

• Santa Ysabel is a 5 minute drive from the cidery. Find shade, picnic tables, porta potties by the parking lot at the trail head. A great place to have a snack, drink cider and go for a hike.
• Volcan Mountain is a one hour hike and only a 2 minute drive from Storum. Bring layers! At the on road parking area it may be hot but at the view it can get down right chilly.

• Website: https://storumranch.com/

Mentions in this Chat

• CiderCon 2023 - February 1-3, 2023
  • sign up now for the January 30th Chicago Cider Tours
• New York International Cider Competition February 19, 2023- use promo code: Chat23 for $10 off your entry submission.

• Episodes
  • • 303 DYI Wassail Tips

•  
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

The logo of Calico Cidery might be an upside down apple drawn to look like an apple tree, but the setting, the people, orchard and the cider is all right side up and slamming it! Located in the high desert region of San Diego to the east of the county is a lone road that brings you up to Julian California which is a bustling apple town.

Calico sits at 38oo feet while Julian is up at 4200 feet, making it a high desert region where apples and the people are living the good life in what feels like a bit of an oasis after driving through the rough scrabble land of the desert below.

Mural by the road out front of Calico Cidery

Ian Wright is the head cidermaker and brings us through a compliment of ciders while we chat about the history of the orchard.

• Planted in 1920 - the orchard is long stem trees
• At one time it was mainly a U-Pick orchard
• Now owned by a family who is also making cider in Paso Robles California
• What is dry farming apples

Ian Wright

• Field Blend

  • Jona Gold & Winesap  (9.0%)

• Devil's Punch Bowl (8.0%)
  • a blend of apples, pears, persimmon and guavas
• Wild ferments with no sulfites added
• Always 4 Calico Ciders on tap
• Everything made is sold on tap
• Destination cidery and region
• Single Varietals made at Calico
  • Winesap
  • Northern Spy
  • Jona Gold
  • Ida Red

Hanging with the after hours Cider and Calvados Crew at Calico

When visiting Calico and Julian

• Take a cider and walk about the orchard at Calico
• Make sure to have enough time to also hang at the bar and take in the slow life.
• Say hi to Eric the bartender
• Stay at the Julian Hotel
• Grab a soup and half sandwich for lunch at Soups and Such Cafe
• Nead a hefty dinner? Try Romano's Restaurant
• Bring pie to the family or friends back home from the many apple pie bakeries in town
• Visit the other local cideries
  • Storum Ranch Cider and Wine
  • Julian Hard Cider

• Website: http://www.calicocidery.com/

Mentions in this Chat

• CiderCon 2023 - February 1-3, 2023
  • sign up now for the January 30th Chicago Cider Tours
• New York International Cider Competition February 19, 2023- use promo code: Chat23 for $10 off your entry submission.
• Episodes

  • 340: Eric Bordelet on Pairing Cider with Food 

    • Episode 340 was the early morning recording after a wonderful visit the night before
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

Orchardist Matt Kaminsky has hosted a Pomological Exhibition in Ashfield, Massachusetts for the past 3 years. In this talk recorded at the Cider Pop-UP as part of CiderDays 2.0 events on the weekend of November 4th-6th Matt talks about the history of Pomological Societies and why such exhibitions are so important.

In this talk Matt nods to the impact of global warming and climate change

• What is causing more economic harm to apple growers
• What species of apple trees can now be grown here and the spread of invasive insects?

At the Pomological Exhibition

• Had 150 wild apples and pears on exhibit
• Throughout the US and Canadian apples too.

Few repeat entries at this Public Tasting. The public was able to cast a vote in 5 different categories

• Best quality eating
• Best cider apple?
• Best pear
• Best crab
• Visual - showiest and prettiest apple

• Website: https://gnarlypippins.com/

Mentions in this Chat

• Episodes
  • Fermentis by Lesaffre - 4 SafCider yeast cultures
    • 336 Cider Yeast Choices with Fermentis

• • 072: Lost Apples of the Quabbin
• Subscribe to eCiderNews
• CiderCon 2023 - February 1-3, 2023

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
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• Cider Chat YouTube

Four Phantoms Looks to Historical Co-Ferments

Head Brewer and owner Drew Phillips of Four Phantoms Brewery in Greenfield Massachusetts spoke on Folks Traditions and the Co-Fermentation of Wort and Apple Juice and the brewery's co-ferment called Old Gods (8.0%). There were two talks on the subject, with the first being November 3rd and the second on November 6th as part of CiderDays 2.0 compilation of events. This episode is from the November 6th presentation.

Drew is no stranger to fermenting having spent time brewing first in Oregon and then as Head Cidermaker at Artifact Cider Project in Florence, Massachusetts before opening Four Phantoms over two years ago.

His interest in old brewing traditions and recipes has him pushing the envelope with special ferments and Old Gods is a great representation of what can be done, when done well. (Read: Old Gods is delicious!!)

Folk Traditions Around Co-fermenting Cider and Beer

Drew notes that historically there wasn’t such a delineation between beer, cider and mead as there is now. He notes how that in Wassail songs , the call for mixing cider, beer and elderberry boughs all into the same beverage. The use of Hydrometers or the science of acid titration are recent adaptations to a farmhouse fermenter’s tool box.

Up until the 19th century fermenters would brew by taste and if the wort didn’t taste good you would grind up more grain and mash it in, which is a classic way of brewing a farmhouse ale. - Brew by Taste.

Drew notes the difference between wort (the base of beer) and apple juice the base for cider. For yeast health fermenters are looking for YAN (Yeast Assimiable Nutrients). In apple juice there isn't alot of YAN whereas with Wort there is alot.  Thus Farmers would ferment Farmhouse ales and often blended in fresh pressed apple juice. 

No Heat Ferment

Other than the sparing that taste place with the grain used for beer, there is no boiling of the wort as is typical with brewing. Thus, a farmhouse ale can be easily blended in with apple juice to create this co-ferment concoction. 

The Making of Old Gods at Four Phantoms

• 100 gallons of unpasteurized Mcintoush apple juice.
• No yeast inoculation
• Blend in with Raw ale - typical farmhouse style
• The wort was not boiled -
• No hops
• Mashed into a whole mash tun of birch branches

The result is a tasting drink that blends the two products together. Make sure to try Old Gods at Four Phantoms each fall. 

Contact info for Four Phantoms Brewery

• Website: https://www.fourphantoms.net/
• Address: 301 Wells Street, Greenfield, MA 01301

Mentions in this Chat

• CiderCon 2023 in Chicago - February 1st-3rd, 2023

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
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Steve Garwood and daughter Anne Garwood Hampp are the mastermind duo at Ragged Hill Cider based in West Brookfield, Massachusetts.

They brought a selection of bottles to taste through and we started with the Baldwin.

"Body gives you a perception of fullness and sweetness" is how Steve Garwood describes the Baldwin, which is a Pet Nat cider ringing in a 7% alcohol by volume.

Says Steve Garwood, "It is a business reason for us to make ciders that will improve in time."

Anne Garwood Hampp, Louise and Steve Garwood.

• Dd10 a champagne yeast
  • This yeast provides a vigors ferment that yields a fruit forward profile

• Wickson
  • single variety 9%
• Roxbury Russet - Dabinett -8.8%  this is a still cider
• Flora - Roxbury russet, cortland, macintoush  - blend of a fruit 2018-2020
  • Expand on ice cider Juice starts at 22 024 Brits
  • Took off first fraction of juice from freeze and then 11.7%
• Pommeau made with all heirloom fruit  18%

Contact for Ragged Hill Cider

• Website: https://www.raggedhillcider.com/
• Ragged's online Store: https://www.raggedhillcider.com/purchase-online

Mentions in this Chat

• Episodes
  • Fermentis by Lesaffre - 4 SafCider yeast cultures
    • 336 Cider Yeast Choices with Fermentis
• Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

On the first ever CiderDays, which was a one day event held on November 5, 1994, volunteers were stationed at local cider mills to encourage people to learn how to make cider. When the event became a 2-day experience, volunteers helped to make this annual event which is held on the first weekend of November a success. And so it continued.

Community projects are part of the fabric of the local community where CiderDays takes place. These projects can be big like helping to build the New England Peace Pagoda in Leverett, Massachusetts in the late 1980's or more intimate like a wood stacking party to celebrate a friends birthday.

Getting something done with friends is fun.

It is a way to hang out with people with a common goal.

Without volunteers for CiderDays and now CiderDays 2.0 events would come to a stand still. We need engaged people who know that cider=fun. Yes, there is a lot of preliminary work that takes place beforehand to set up an event, but on the day of it is all about the Volunteers.

• Reach out to Volunteers early on
  • Don't wait till the month of the event to secure your volunteers
• Provide a script of tasks
  • Keep volunteers in the loop by providing
    • provide a mission of what the event is offering
    • send a list of expected tasks so that they know the full script of what you expect
    • Call them and don't just rely on text messages
    • Feed the Volunteers
      • if you have evening events where Volunteers are serving, make sure they have had a chance to taste the same food or cider that will be served. We expect wait staff at a restaurant to give us tips on what is best on the menu or if the meal is gluten free, vegetarian options, or a general sense of the event. With this in mind, approach your event the same way and make sure your volunteers know the whole script including how delicious the food or cider that you are serving is and what the guests can expect.

Thank Volunteers after the event - for a Job well done!

You will likely want to bring them back next year!

Download CiderDays 2.0 Latest Events Schedule 

• CiderDays 2.0 Events all take place in downtown Greenfield Massachusetts at Hawks and Reed
• Go to Events page to find a description of the CiderDays 2.0 events
• Got to Tickets page to purchase CiderDays 2.0 Tickets
• Sign up for eCiderNews to receive updates and ticket info

Mentions in this Chat

• Episodes
  • Fermentis by Lesaffre - 4 SafCider yeast cultures
    • 336 Cider Yeast Choices with Fermentis
• CiderDays 2.0 - Tickets on sale and updates

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

CiderDays and has now been dubbed as CiderDays 2.0 and the celebrities attending can both be found in the bottles and the new and familiar face of cider today at this November 4th -6th.  Finally the return of in person events and friends from afar flocking to western Massachusetts to raise a glass.

Bookmark the Schedule Page for CiderDays 2.0

Let's start with what is in the bottle first cuz there are a whole bunch of additions to the menu of tastings.

• Calvados and American Apple Brandy Guided Tasting
  • A 7th Apple Brandy has been added to this November 4th 6-8:30 pm event
    • Apple Brandy from Beaver Pond Distillery in Petersham, MA
    • Yes, 7 pours of Brandy!

4 Calvados (France) and 3 American Apple Brandies

• The Château Du Breuil Calvados was aged in a Port cask!
  • This is quite unique and makes one wonder if the French are taking cues from American makers where anything goes with fermentation! On the French Cider Tour 2022 we tasted Calvados with Etienne Dupont out of Scotch Whisky barrels and Cherry wood barrels. The future is here!
  • The Port cask leaves an ultra smooth finish to this 6 year old Calvados from Pays d’Auge, Normandy.

Thanks to David Catania, Spirits Category Manager at Burke Distributing Corporation for helping out with this project!

The Cider Dinner Menu has some very special releases

• Heirloom Barrel Aged Ice Cider from Eden Specialty Cider in Vermont.
  • This is a never before released Ice Cider which used barrels from Laird’s and Company - America’s Oldest Distiller dating back to 1698. 9th Generation Laird, Lisa Laird Dunn who is attending the dinner and also presenting at CiderDays 2.0 doesn’t yet know about this Ice Cider and how her family’s used oak barrels were used to condition this special blend. The Ice Cider will now accompany the dessert, which is an Apple Crisp with the whipped cream infused with Laird’s Straight Apple Jack. Eden is owned by the current President of the American Cider Association Eleanor Leger, who is renown both in the US and Internationally as the Ice Cider Queen. The dessert was already delicious but the side glass of this Heirloom Barrel Aged Ice Cider is going to bring it completely over the top -  bridging 2 celebrated makers in America.
• We will also be having a Special Release of a single varietal cider from Eden made with Golden Russet apples
• Special Release from Ragged Hill Cider in West Brookfield Mass called Flora. Flora is a blend of Roxbury Russet, Cortland, and McIntosh apples. It has a high gravity (alcohol by volume) that is much like wine at 11.7%. Ragged Hill used a  blend of a fruit from 2018-2020 using the Solera method of winemaking where you make fractional blending to produce a final product. Flora is going to captivate the diners at this premier dinner.

Celebrities in Attendance

• CiderDays Founder Paul Correnty who wrote one of the first books on cider called the Art of Cidermaking (1995) will be attending all the CiderDays 2.0 events. Raise a glass with him at the Wheelhouse Cider Tap Take Over on Friday Night November 4th where you can taste his newest creation "Simply Dry". Chef Paul, as he is known, is now Head Cidermaker at Carlson Orchards in Hudson MA. He will be pouring samples of cider from Carlson’s at The Pushkin Cider Pop UP on November 5th from 2-4:30 pm
• Mo’s Fudge Factor of Shelburne Falls will also be at Cider Pop UP dipping apples on a stick in her signature fudge.
• Vermont Quince will have an assortment of Quince jams and be there to answer your quince questions. Yes Quince is related to Apples and used in cidermaking.

Morris Dancing from 1-2pm next to the Greenfield Common.

• One of the groups is called Wake Robin and is an all women group of dancers.

Mentions in this Chat

• Episodes
  • Fermentis by Lesaffre - 4 SafCider yeast cultures
    • 336 Cider Yeast Choices with Fermentis
• CiderDays 2.0 - Tickets on sale and updates

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

This year 2022 is the reboot of America's oldest educational and festive cider event dubbed this year as CiderDays 2.0 and this episode we tip the glass to those who are helping make it happen and find out what they are doing on November 4th-6th.

• Ryan and Casey Liquors

Ryan and Casey Liquors 1998

• Artifact Cider Project
• New Salem Cider
• Berkshire Cider Project 

• Scott Farm 
• The Brewery at Four Star Farms 
• Beaver Pond Distillery
• Brook Farm Orchard                      

Big #1 Tip is to BOOKMARK this page - here is the link spelled out https://ciderchat.com/ciderdaysschedule2022/

Find the most recently updated info on the schedule of events.

Big #2 Tip - get your tickets now to the 

• Calvados and American Apple Brandy Guided Tasting - limited seating
• Orchard Care for Homeowners with John Bunker
• History of Apple Jack with Lisa Laird Dunn
• The Pushkin Cider Pop-UP is free, but come early so you can get a good seat to hear Claude Jolicoeur, Matt Kaminsky and James Asbel of Ciders of Spain speak
• Cider Dinner - definitely 2022's most epic cider dinner with 6 women producers over a 5 course gluten free meal all paired with cider.

Mentions in this Chat

• Episodes
  • 336 Cider Yeast Choices with Fermentis
  • 279: Apology to a Billionaire Cidermaker
  • 312: Some Angels are Dressed Like Bears | Michael Phillips 1957-2022
  • 331: Bodacious Ciders, Cookbook & Treats | Carr's Ciderhouse, MA
• CiderDays 2.0 - Tickets on sale and updates
• Fermentis by Lesaffre - 4 SafCider yeast cultures

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

"One must taste, taste, taste to know." say maker Eric Bordelet when pairing food with cider. Yes, it is not as simple as seeing the menu, but also knowing how both the Chefs in the kitchen and the Maker in the cidery work with their ingredients at hand.

The French Cider Tour of 2022 was treated to a fine Michelin Star dinner with Eric Bordelet and it did not disappoint. Eric decided to discuss his three products before dinner was served. That evening he brought his Sidra Argulette (2010), the Poire Granite (2021) and the Corme (2021). He left it to the diners to decider which one paired best with the meal.

Hear in this episode which glass Cider Chat producer Ria Windcaller picked to drink with the meal.

The main clip in this episode is Eric speaking on the Sidra Argulette which even at 12 years of age is still tasting well balanced.

• • Vermont Quince will be at the CiderDays 2.0 Cider Pop-UP
• Fermentis by Lesaffre - 4 SafCider yeast cultures

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
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The obvious reason why taking a bus tour vs driving on your own to visit French cidermakers is that you can imbibe! But wait there is more! In this episode 339, the guest on the 2022 French Cider Tour to Normandy, Brittany and Domfrontais will tell you why a cider tour bus is better than going solo as we roll along the countryside on our final leg of the journey.

Our beautiful luxury bus was driven by a very capable driver by the name of David, who was game for taking the back roads and mini detours that weren't on the original itinerary.  With David driving and watching the route and foreign roads signs, we could sit back and raise a glass of French cidre, poire, Calvados, Pommeau, Chouchen, and even a bottle of English Brandy all day long. In the way back of our bus were two tables that folks enjoyed sitting at and sharing cheese, bread, macaroons and other local nibbles as we rolled along the French Countryside.

It should be noted that due to the low alcohol by volume of most French cidres (around 4.5-5%) one could have a glass and remain clear headed. 

Having fun on the cider bus

Hear from the guest on the bus as we slowly make our way back to Paris on the final day of our tour.

There were 6 commercial cidermakers from both the US and Canada, along with cider fans and home fermenters. Below is the list of people as heard on this episode

• Jeff Stoner and Kim Taylor of Greenbank Cidery | Washington
• Scott and Ginger Wierzbanowski of Olympic Bluffs Cidery | Washington
• Tina from Florida
• Robert Van Waarden of Red Island Cider - Prince Edward Island |Canada
• Brian Wing of Green Bench Brewing and Cider (Florida)
• Tristan Wright of Lost Boy Cider | Virginia
• Deborah and David of Oregon
• Dan and Lisa Schreffler of Space Time Mead and Ciderworks | Pennsylvania
• Jodi of California
• Debbie and Bryce of California

Cider to share on the bus

• Send an email to [email protected]

Mentions in this chat

• Song - My Friend Jack by Little Big Town
• Country Roads by John Denver

Mentions in this Chat

• Episode 336: Cider Yeast Choices with Fermentis
• Episode 46: Agathe Letellier | Manoir d'Apreval Normandy 
• Episode 322: The Celebrated Poiré & Calvados of Pacory | FR

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

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The 2022 French Cider Tour that took travelers from across North America on a trip of a life time was a trip of a life time. Not only were the apple and pear trees laden with fruit, but the hot and humid weather pattern finally broke and offered cool breezes. Cool weather is perfect for opening bottles from morning to night and this tour did exactly that.

Hear audio snap shots along the way as we celebrate French Cider with the makers and drink in the sights and sounds both Normandy, Domfrontais and Brittany.

• Ringing of the bells in Honfleur

• Etienne Dupont of Domaine Dupont tips

• Agathe Letellier of Manoir D'Apreval shares a bit of the history of her domaine

Agathe Letellier | Manoir d'Apreval

• Daughter and Father (Estelle and Patrice) team at Manoir de Montreuil - French Cider Family now in their 14th generation

• Is the wooden screw from the ancient press made of oak or Sorbus Domestica?

Old press screw said to be oak but could it be Sorbus Domestica?

• Brian Wing shares cider on the tour bus from Greenbank Cidery

• Singing on the bus along the way on the French Cider Tour
• Frédéric Pacory on Perry

• Send an email to [email protected]

Mentions in this Chat

• Episode 336: Cider Yeast Choices with Fermentis
• Episode 46: Agathe Letellier | Manoir d'Apreval Normandy 
• Episode 322: The Celebrated Poiré & Calvados of Pacory | FR
• Mathilde de Bazouges @pom_presse is the distiller at Domaine Dupont

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Étienne Dupont took over the Domaine Familial Etienne Dupont in the Pays d'Auge region of Normandy France from his father Louis and grandfather Jules in 1980. Episode 098: Jérôme Dupont | Domaine Dupont is a conversation with Étienne son who sadly passed away in 2018. The recording with Jérôme provides the backdrop of the story behind the Dupont families acquiring the estate or what is called a Domaine in France. 

Eitenne Dupont and Benoit at Cave Pepins

In this episode Étienne and I are in the city of Caen and we are visiting Cave Pepin - wonderful store filled with Calvados, Cider, Poire and Pommeau. We are assisted by Benoit or Ben who works at the store and brought us through a tasting of Calvados. UPDATE: (this store is now closed, but Benoit is has now opened a new store in the city called Les Cidroloques).

Etienne begins by describing the

• The fruit
• The Yeast
• The Cask in which the Calvados has been kept

If the cask is new wood you will taste the sap which presents itself as grainy.

Classical Calvados - the cask only contained cider and Calvados

Étienne asks if we suspect acetone in the Calvados as we are tasting.

During our first tasting we are delve into the taste and as Étienne says,

“We are fighting the acetone, we are too professional”

• He prefers a quick fermentation of 3 days and then distillation. But alas the rules in Normandy require that distillation now must be done 3 weeks from the point of initial distillation.
• Use clean apples. When Domaine Dupont presses the juice goes directly into concrete vats at the Pressoir and then it is pumped underground via tubing to the pot still.
• The cider is racked off the gross lees at this point, with only the fine lees being distilled
• His preferred temperature to ferment the cider is 22 to 23 degrees celsius (71 Fahrenheit) and no fermentation below 8 degrees Celsius (46 Fahrenheit).

Determining Age of Calvados

• Fine is younger 2-3 years old
• Hors d'Age is at least 6 years old
  • Étienne jokes that Hors d'Age which can range from 6 years to 20 is designed to get you lost. I agree and so best to ask the producer! Or as Étienne says that "You must rely on your palate."

Contact for Domaine Familial Etienne Dupont

Website: https://www.calvados-dupont.com/en/ciders-calvados.htm

Mentions in this chat

• Fermentis by Lesaffre - sign up for their upcoming online Q&A discussing cider yeast via the Fermentis Academy
• Caen, France new store owned by Benoit - Les Cidrologues

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Anne Flesch Regional Sales Manager and Technical Sales Support Manager at Fermentis helps us sort through the magical world of yeast and fermenting cider. And she also address 3 listener questions on the topic of yeast and fermentation.

Upcoming Q&A with Fermentis on September 29th, 2022. Go to Fermentis.com to register

The AB of AB-1 stands for Apple Balance. The 1 stands for the first cider yeast

The AC of AC- 4 means Apple Crisp

The AS 0f AS -2 stands for Apple Sweet

The TF of TF 6  stands for Tutti Fruity

Listener questions:

1. Using such a hybrid approach? One part wild yeast and one part cultured
2.  Using Saccharomyces boulardii as a cider yeast?
3. Timing of inoculation of (MLB) malolactic bacteria (MLB) in cider and the affect on taste/aroma/Other influences on malolactic fermentation MLF.

Support  Sponsors of Cider Chat so they can continue to support this podcast and help you make great cider!

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers. 

• CiderDays 2.0 November 4th & 5th, 2022
• Calvados and American Apple Brandy Guided Tasting November 4th
• CiderDays 2.0 Cider Dinner November 5, 2022
• Episode 265 Calvados Tasting with Étienne Dupont | Domaine Dupont

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

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Brian Ferguson is a Pennsylvania native who came to Flag Hill via the Cayman Island and ever since both he and his wife Maggie have continued to transform what was once a farm into a multi venue location. Driving up to the farm one will see vineyards that are helping to win gold medals, acres of corn and an inviting entrance that screams "sit a while and enjoy".

The hybrid pot still with column at is working non stop at the distillery. There are over 500 barrels alone in the aging warehouse for the coveted Josiah Bartlett Apple Brandy.  Expect a smooth mouthfeel and light amber hues in this lightly from this 6 year old brandy that is aged in toasted barrels.

Along with the Apple Brandy, Flag Hill uses apples in the distillation of the

• Karner Blue Gin
  • named after the state butterfly. This is a heavenly drink and will make anyone a gin lover.
• Maple Sugar Liqueur
  • decadence in a bottle, this liqueur is a perfect gift for the holidays or you own personal stash for cooking and afternoon/evening sipping.
• General John Stark Vodka
  • A must for cocktail fans!

Those are just the Apple Based spirits. There are more delicious spirts.

We speak with owner/distiller Brian Ferguson and Company Wingman David Breslin

Flag Hill Owner and Distiller Brian Ferguson and Company Wingman David Breslin

• Historical overview of Flag Hill – farm, distillery, winery, events venue
  • Type of still – column – explanation of the process from apples to Apple Brandy
  • Apple Brandies made at Flag Hill - The Dusty Collection
  • Apples used. Varieties. Source.
  • Fermenting cider for distillation
  • Oak used, Aging conditions, length of time
  • Josiah Bartlett Apple Brandy - Who is Josiah Bartlett?
  • What to expect from Josiah Bartlett Apple Brandy

Flag Hill's Josiah Bartlett Apple Brandy will be at

CiderDays 2.0  Calvados and American Apple Brandy Guided Tasting

 Contact for Flag Hill Winery and Distillery

• Website: https://www.flaghill.com/
• Address: 297 North River Road (Rt. 155) Lee, NH 03861
• Telephone: (603) 659-2949
• eMail: [email protected]

Support  Sponsors of Cider Chat so they can continue to support this podcast and help you make great cider!

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers Sign up for the September 29th Q&A by visiting Fermentis.com

Click  to purchase CiderDays 2.0 Tickets

• CiderDays 2.0 November 4th & 5th, 2022

Tickets links below to CiderDays 2.0 event

• Calvados and American Apple Brandy Guided Tasting November 4th
• Orcharding for Homeowners with John Bunker
• History of Apple Jack with Lisa Laird Dunn
• CiderDays 2.0 Cider Dinner November 5, 2022

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

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In Part 1 of this two part series on Laird's & Company, we met with 9th generation Lisa Laird Dunn. Lisa is the COO and Global Ambassador of this family business. In that episode #333 Lisa shared the family's 324 year history beginning in 1698 to present day. In this episode, we meet both Lisa's son Gerard and her father Larrie Laird. Gerard joined his mother to discuss the current state and future of Laird's and Larrie brings us into the massive barrel room for a walk about aging casks of Laird's famous Apple Brandies and Apple Jack.

Lisa (9th generation), Gerard (10th generation), Larrie (8th generation)

• Laird’s product line – Apple Jack to Apple Brandy
• Let’s talk oak barrels - How many and the kind? Oldest in use?
• Laird’s Virginia based distillery in North Garden – lets discuss this location and sourcing local apples
  • Listeners hold southern apple in high esteem and would love to know varieties used and orchards
• What Laird’s Apple Brandy is and what it is not
  • American’s misconception of Apple Brandy - It is NOT flavored apple brandy.
• Next steps for Laird's & Company
  • A museum, visitor center and tasting room
  • Cider barrel aged in Laird's brandy barrels.

Listen to Part 1 on the Laird's Family history in Episode 333

Larrie, Gerard, Lisa

• Website: https://lairdandcompany.com/

Click  to purchase CiderDays 2.0 Tickets

• CiderDays 2.0 November 4th & 5th, 2022

Tickets links below to CiderDays 2.0 event

• Calvados and American Apple Brandy Guided Tasting November 4th
• Orcharding for Homeowners with John Bunker
• History of Apple Jack with Lisa Laird Dunn
• CiderDays 2.0 Cider Dinner November 5, 2022

• 306 Ciders for Every Season | Elegast, Netherlands
• Episode 26: Neil Worley Keeving

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

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Lisa Laird Dunn and Cider Chat MC Ria Windcaller had a sit down chat at the main offices of Laird's & Company in Scobyville, New Jersey. They met in what was once the  Laird's family's home ( a couple generations ago), but which is now the main headquarters for the company.

Lisa  is a the 9th generation Laird, her son Gerard who you can hear on Part 2 of this two part series  and now working on site is a 10th generation Laird. Lisa's father Larrie Laird, who is an 8th generation Laird, will be heard talking about the production and barreling of their apple brandies in Part 2 episode 334.

Laird's has the choice position of being America's first licensed distillers (note the No 1 on the door below). The fact that they are well known for their Apple Jack, made back in 1698 and have survived for over 300 years is commendable and speaks volumes of their family and products and is a cider podcaster's dream interview!

Laird Family in front of door bearing the distilling licensed No 1! Walls behind is black due old still that was situated next door to this room which released gas that coated the building.  l to r - Lisa (9th generation), Larrie (8th generation) , Gerard (10th generation Laird)

Larrie, Gerard, Lisa

• Lisa Laird Dunn's role at company - Global Ambassador and Chief Operating Officer
• Historical overview of Laird Family history in distilling to present day
• Laird Family time line from 1698 to 2022
• Did Robert Laird give George Washington the Apple Jack recipe as request and noted in Washington's diary?
• Getting a federal license to distill during Prohibition
•  Production numbers (capacity) from 1780 to today - to show the growth
• Family anecdotes of growing up a Laird?
• Tips on maintaining a family legacy and keeping future generation engaged?
•  Apple Jack distillation technique in 1698 vs today in North

The Lisa Cocktail made with Laird's Straight Apple Jack 86

• Website: https://lairdandcompany.com/

• CiderDays 2.0 November 4th & 5th, 2022
• Calvados and American Apple Brandy Guided Tasting November 4th
• CiderDays 2.0 Cider Dinner November 5, 2022
• Episode 265 Calvados Tasting with Étienne Dupont | Domaine Dupont

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
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With author Claude Jolicoeur on this newest book that is being released on September 23, 2022. Claude has authored to previous books on cider.

• Who is Cider Planet written for? Cider Curious, Makers commercial or amateur?
• What readers can expect from Cider Planet
• How is the book laid out?
• Is there a key region that is propelling cider forward or is it a combination of regions
• What do you hope readers take away from this book?
• Do you have a favorite style of cider? What is it?

Episode 153: Journey to the World's largest Apple Tree

Claude here is wearing a traditional jacket as worn by men in Kazakhstan.

Contact Claude Jolicoeur

• website: http://www.cjoliprsf.ca/

Support  Sponsors of Cider Chat so they can continue to support this podcast and help you make great cider!

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers

Mentions in this Chat

• CiderDays 2.0 November 4th & 5th, 2022
• Calvados and American Apple Brandy Guided Tasting November 4th
• CiderDays 2.0 Cider Dinner November 5, 2022
• Episode 328 with Chef Paul and Episode 329 with Judith Maloney

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
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Nicole Blum of Carr's Ciderhouse will be one of 6 celebrated women in cider speaking at the November 5th Cider Dinner at Hawks and Reed Performing Arts Center. Tickets for the Cider Dinner go live on September 3, 2022. Sign up now for eCiderNews to get emailings to Early Ticket Release dates.

Jonathan Carr and Nicole Blum

Nicole Blum and Jonathan Carr's first date was at a Creperie in San Franciso and as fate planned it, they drank cider. The two live in Ireland for a bit, where Jonathan was born for a spell and even planted a a few apple trees. Fate again had other plans and they found their way back to the states to settle in Hadley, Massachusetts. There they have both a working farm, what they call "Preservation Orchard"  at Carr's Ciderhouse and a large rack and cloth press in the barn overlooking the Connecticut River Valley.

• Cider Syrup
• Shrubs
• Switchel
• Berries
• Chestnut trees
• Community Supported Agriculture (CSA)
• Their Ciderhouse Cookbook: 127 Recipes That Celebrate the Sweet, Tart, Tangy Flavors of Apple Cider

• White Jersey
• Golden Russet
• Dabinet
• A blend of all three

Contact Carr's Ciderhouse

• Website: https://www.carrsciderhouse.com/

Support  Sponsors of Cider Chat so they can continue to support this podcast and help you make great cider!

• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers

Mentions in this Chat

• CiderDays 2.0 November 4th & 5th, 2022
• CiderDays 2.0 Cider Dinner November 5, 2022

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

CiderDays 2.0 ~ November 4th & 5th, 2022 at  Hawks and Reed Performing Art Center in Greenfield, Massachusetts. Sign up now for the eCiderNews to receive notifications to your in box on CiderDays 2.0 schedule of events and early ticket release dates, links and a special coupon for eCiderNews subscribers.

• western Mass Cider Week begins October 30th through November 4th, 2022

The Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners (MOFGA) is hosting Apple Camp on the weekend August 19th-21st, 2022. In this chat hear from Laura Sieger, the Orchard Manager at the Maine Heritage Orchard in Unity Maine. Laura is working with the Apple Camp team to bring an well paced weekend of apple friends.

• Find out the schedule, speakers and what to expect

Contact for MOGA Apple Camp

• Website: https://www.mofga.org/event-calendar/mac2022/

Mentions in the Chat

• Episode 328: Chef Paul | Author, Maker & CiderDays OG
• Episode 329: Cider's Heroine Judith Maloney | West County Cider

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

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• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
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CiderDays 2.0 Cider Dinner on November 5, 2022 with 6 outstanding women producers from the east coast at the Hawks and Reed Performing Art Center in Greenfield, Massashusetts. Dine with Judith Maloney of West County Cider (MA), Lisa Laird Dunn of Lairds & Company (NJ), Louisa Spencer of Farnum Hill Cider & Poverty Lane Orchard (NH) , Eleanor Leger of Eden Specialty Ciders (VT), Nicole Blum of Carrs Ciderhouse & Preservation Orchard and Farm (MA), and Anne Garwood Hampp of Ragged Hill Cider (MA). Sing up now to receive notification to your in box on CiderDays 2.0 schedule of events and early ticket release dates and links.

In 1984 there were no commercial cidermakers in the United States. Only S. Martinelli & Co. based in Watsonville California was able to hold onto their license up to 1979, but gave it up when revenue from sales was only 1% of their overall business of offering apple juice products. Listen to John Martinelli discuss his family's story in episode 162

Terry and Judith Maloney in the early days of West County Cider

Judith Maloney Today

• Hear Judith backstory of her family's start from London to America in the 1940's.
• How she met Terry Maloney
• Making wine in the late 1960's with grapes from Rene di Rosa in the Carneros region or California
• How Judith and Terry ended up in Colrain, Massachusetts
• The paperwork to sell cider under a winery license and working with Agent Ernie  (Ernest) Giuliani of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF)
• Getting scion for their orchard and the Redfield Apple
• Getting cider into stores, at a time when quality cider was unknown with Chef's like Jasper White
• Meeting Dewey the cidermaker
• Farm Cider in western Massachusetts
• Steve Wood of Farnum Hill Cider in NH helping Judith when Terry unexpectedly died in 2010
• Starting CiderDays in 1994 and the building of community of makers and friends

Judith's son Field Maloney and a silent partner are now the owners of West County Cider. They continue to work with Pine Hill Orchards in Colraine, make Redfield Cider and other single varietal ciders that Field's father Terry showcased. Judith still travels to Boston and loves going to Formaggio Kitchen in Boston where she brings West County Cider products to sell for her son and marvel at the wide range of selections and loves tasting cider with the cheese monger there.

Website: http://westcountycider.com/

Address: 208 Peckville Rd, Shelburne Falls, MA 01370

Mentions in this chat

• Historical Cider Chat episodes on cider's history in America
  • 317: How the "Cyder" Teapot Fueled the American Revolution
  • 162: S. Martinelli's & Co. | 150 years of Cider
• Hear Field Maloney on Episode 001 of Cider Chat

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
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News on CiderDays 2.0!  Orchards can be as small as 2, 5 or 10 trees. Get tips on how to manage a small scale orchard at CiderDays 2.0 with John Bunker on November 5th at 9am. Get updates and ticket information by following Cider Chat and signing up for the eCiderNews.

Paul with Three Brothers Cider from Carlson Orchards

• • Paul's journey to cider
  • His wife's family links to the first orchard in Harvard Massachusetts
  • History behind New England Apple Products and Very Fine Juice company
  • Carlson Orchard
  • Cidermaking at Carlson's Orchard
  • The book the Art of Cidermaking
  • How Paul met Judith Maloney
  • Founding CiderDays in 1994
• Paul at CiderDays 2016 Contact for Carlson Orchards
  • Website https://carlsonorchards.com/
  Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

  Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

  • Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
  • Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
  • Twitter @ciderchat
  • Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
  • Cider Chat FaceBook Page
  • Cider Chat YouTube

  Haven't downloaded this episode yet? Here it is again for your listening pleasure.

Orchards can be as small as 2, 5 or 10 trees. Get tips on how to manage a small scale orchard at CiderDays 2.0 with John Bunker on November 5th at 9am. Get updates and ticket information by following Cider Chat and signing up for the eCiderNews.

On Guemes Island in Washington state, Edith Walden started her quince journey in 1995 and soon became known as the Quince Queen. The island is short ferry ride from Anacortes and the land itself where Edith has her orchard of quince, apples, pears and more fruit was once the homestead of the Mathew Brothers and dates back to 1858. As such there is a 160 year old Gravenstein apple tree that sits in the center of the orchard. Edith calls it the Mother Tree.

The Quince Queen founded Willowrose Bay, Inc selling her magnificient quince to Whole Foods and regional cider makers

Edith to the left with friend harvesting quince

• How Edith became the Quince Queen
• Growing Quince
• She spaced her trees  9’ and 12’ apart
• Quince pests
• Varieties of Quince and their viability for retail and cider
  • Aromatnaya
  • Cooke's Jumbo -Golden and breed by California grower
  • Havran, Havran II, Havran III (unknown true variety)
  • Kuanching - Chinese
  • Kuganskaya - Russian
  • Meech's Prolific -bred by Mr Meech, tasty - has a black spot on it - good for cider
  • Queen's - sweet by not prolific, maybe better grown in other areas
  • Smyrna -  too small for retail - though sweet
  • Tashkent - Turkish
  • Van Deman - bred by Luther Burbank in California
  • Zvezdnaia - Russian , Jerry Lehman out of Ohio, said great for cider - huge & apple shape
• The future of WillowRose Bay Inc.

The quince orchard of Willowrose Bay Inc

• Quince Culture: An Illustrated Hand-Book for the Propagation and Cultivation of the Quince 
  • • Author Willam Meech, named a quince variety after himself. This is the consummat book on growing Quince and dates back to the 1800's

• Simply Quince by the Queen of Quince, Barbara Ghazarian, a quince cookbook

• eMail: [email protected]

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
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Orchards can be as small as 2, 5 or 10 trees. Get tips on how to manage a small scale orchard at CiderDays 2.0 with John Bunker on November 5th at 9am. Get updates and ticket information by following Cider Chat and signing up for the eCiderNews.

Alan was last on Cider Chat in Episode 312: Some Angels Dress Like Bears a tribute to Orchardist and Author Michael Phillips who passed away suddenly in his own orchard this year 2022. In this week's episode, we hear what is called Stories in Ciderville, a recording that Alan sent my way this Spring. Listeners are welcome to send recorded stories that they wrote which reflect upon cider, apples, orchards, pears, basically anything pome related.

In this episode we hear a recording from Alan that he wrote to share with his fellow parishioners in a congregation in Ashfield, Massachusetts that he attends.

In this Stories from Ciderville, Alan shares his continuing grief over the loss of his dear friend Michael, but that is only one part of the story. The bigger picture is his encouragement to reflect upon our own personal caretaking and nurturing of relationships that feed us well, much like a well tended orchard. And conversely to prune that which no longer serves us. Most timely, is Alan's perspective of seeing the best in people, something that I can wholeheartedly embrace at a time when there is so much angst in the world.

Enjoy this mini Cider Chat and special edition of Stories in Ciderville.

• Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes
• Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line
• Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to [email protected]

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An affection to snow brought Dave Klawer to Washington State. Instead of becoming a professional snowboarder he became a nurse a while he continues to grow his cider brad Alma Cider. This year he finished his Masters in Agriculture to continue enriching his own wealth of knowledge in the field at Washington State University under the tutelage of Carol Miles.

Alma Cider began commercially pressing apples to produce cider in 2019

Dave and Heather

• western Washington state and the Skagit Valley and apple growing in this region
• How Alma leases equipment from Tulip Winery, which by the way had a cider back in 2007 under their other label Burro Locco win Best in Show at the Great Lakes Cider and Perry Competition (GLINTCAP).
• How Alma is able to produce award winning cider while waiting for their own orchard to  bear fruit in the coming years
• Future for Alma Cider
  • Shooting for 2024 to have own facility

Alma won Best in Show for their Wood Aged Cider at GLINTCAP

Alma won Best in Show for their Wood Aged Cider 2021

• Dry
• Semi Sweet
• Hopped Cider
• Rose
• Wood Aged

Contact for Alma Cider

• website: https://almacider.com/
• Get Alma on tap at Tulip Valley Winery

Mentions in this Chat

• USDA RBS bank  find scion wood for grafting
• FEDCO for scion wood
• 208 Calvados and Apple Brandy Tasting